LS3 VS LT1-IS NEWER REALLY BETTER? (GEN 4 VS GEN 5 6.2L)
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- Опубликовано: 5 сен 2024
- 6.2L LS3 VS 6.2L LT1, STOCK VS STOCK, MOD VS MOD, WHO MAKE MORE HP? FULL RESULTS. HOW DOES THE GEN 4, 6.2L LS3 COMPARE TO THE GEN 5, 6.2L LT1? HOW MUCH EXTRA POWER ARE THE VARIABLE VALVE TIMING (VVT), HIGH-FLOW HEADS AND DIRECT INJECTION (WITH HIGHER COMPRESSION) REALLY WORTH? IN THIS VIDEO, WE COMPARED THE TWO ALL-ALUMINUM 6.2L MOTORS IN STOCK TRIM, THEN WITH SOME MODIFICATIONS. HOW WELL DO THEY RESPOND TO PERFORMANCE MODS? IS THE GEN 5 REALLY THE NEXT BIG THING IN LS/LT PERFORMANCE? IT'S ALL HERE.
If anyone should be rewarded , it is that man there. Completely Awesome. I can not thank you enough.
The issue with the Gen 5 stuff is that it seems to be more complex/sensitive to tuning. Even the Terminator X for the LT motors costs twice as much as for the LS stuff. VVT and DI are here to stay so eventually the learning curve and costs will flatten out but I don’t think we’re there yet.
I think going to gen 5s are diminishing returns compared to the ls when you consider everything cost wise.
@@theyhatehimbecausehetoldth7576 it's economics. New stuff will be more expensive than old ones, and if the new stuff becomes popular enough then the prices will come down if the manufacturers develop economical ways of doing it and decide that lowering the price is worth it.
The advantage of direct injection is on motors with boost. E85 + direct injection would help make the motor run safely at higher boost levels.
Everything has diminishing returns. You can't apples-to-apples compare decades old tech that has a ton of aftermarket support to new tech that has limited aftermarket support. If you like old, affordable tech then go with a carbureted LS.
@@sepg5084 There's really no reason to run a carb on an LS. That's just a step backwards for no benefit.
@@theyhatehimbecausehetoldth7576 That's why a majority of people are still LS swapping and not using the LT. The direct injection more than anything really ratchets up the cost.
@@Borderline5440 ruclips.net/video/JLRaY3oAKmg/видео.html&ab_channel=RichardHoldener obviously this is only one setup, but as far as I know, carburetors and efi are very comparable in terms of performance. You do lose drivability (coldstarts, gaskets drying out) with a carb, but it eliminates the need for a fancy ecu, injectors, rails, fuel pump, etc. I'm trying to say that there are benefits to both and acting like there aren't is just close minded.
Edit: found another - ruclips.net/video/EBalrpY73Jc/видео.html&ab_channel=RichardHoldener
I've owned both the GenIV and GenV engines. I take the LT1 hands down. It's much easier to drive even with power adders. The direct injection is more accurate. Plus, the LT engine will get a touch better fuel economy.
I'm running a 6.2 LT1 in my 17' Super Sport Camaro 6 speed manual trans. Bad ass car.
Those LT1 NA power numbers are amazing. WOW......
The low torque is lovely. Vvt
@@hoonaticbloggs5402 Best of both worlds, for sure! :)
numbers are higher than usual because of the way they run the dyno, i.e. long tube headers, no mufflers/cats, open throttle body, and low fluids temperature
@@malamri424 and? Compared to an LS3 it's still a massive improvement
Yall be sure to remember this fun fact. LS3 compression ratio is 10.7:1. LT1 compression ratio is 11.5:1. That's a BIG contributor to the power of the LT1 and Direct Injection is the ONLY reason why the LT1 can run 11.5:1 compression ratio. Injecting the fuel into the chamber COOLS THE AIR IN THE CHAMBER THAT WAS HEATED UP DUE TO COMPRESSION. I wish I could find that article explaining all of this. I read it a few years ago. When I find it, I will post the link here. And for your reading pleasure...
L83 = 11.1 CR
L86/LT1 = 11.5:1 CR
LT4 = 10:1 CR
L8T = 10.8:1 CR
I can't wait for the price fall...
I learned that the modified LT1 makes BBC454 numbers and curves. The variable cam timing makes the entire curve 👌🏻
also high compression with direct injection
@@hanzen5174 yep and pump gas without detonation
DI adds to it as well
A 5.3 LS pumps out BBC power
Nice work Richard! The guys at Late Model Engines have told me they have been seeing more power from the LT than the LS3. Looks like your test indicates this might be true.
I have seen some online cylinder head flow databases that show the LS3 head flowing more than the LT1. The LT1 has a smaller intake valve than the LS3, 2.13 vs 2.165". The LT1 exhaust port is lousy. The reasons that the LT1 outperforms the LS3 in factory configuration is higher compression, longer cam duration, and VVT. The LS3 can be tuned to match the LT1 compression and cam specs, but will give up some low end torque because of no VVT.
Finally someone gets it
Andy I saw it the same way... The LT1 heads out the box do good up to .500" lift. Ported it's going to around 340 CFM and all of us who've been in these discussions know a good ported LS3 head can get to 300CFM by .400" and 360-370CFM... Aftermarket replacement LS3 heads such as the Mast can get up to 410 420 CFM... So LS3 has more potential if you go by the airflow.
The VVT is a big deal in that it can add 50 ft-lb or so between idle and 4000 rpm, so you can run a "big" cam and have impressive torque in the driving rpm range. Also compression is a big deal and if you look on the coyote where stock gen 2 makes 400 ft-lb and the gen 3 makes 420 ft-lb, the gen 3 has 12:1 vs 11:1 on the gen 2. That's about 4% increase in torque per every point of compression increase. 4% of 400 ft-lb is 16 ft-lb, so most of that 20 ft-lb increase was due to the compression.
cant compare them with dry flow. THere is no fuel in the lt1 head with DI. the ls3 does not flow as the numbers suggest with fuel . An lt1 switched to port only configuration loses 40+ hp with no other changes. From fuel in head and airflow being much less than a flow bench
peak flow numbers are not the entire story either.
fast forward 3 years from this video and things are even uglier. Stock bottom end stock cube heads cam lt1 are getting near 700 rwhp lol. On e85. Running near 15:1 compression on the street. Good luck doing that with an sbe ls3
Ok thankyou so much for this... when buying an LS3 camaro it will be cheaper than a LT1 camaro to begin with. Now I can consider these mods on an LS3 camaro that is plenty enough HP 620 and 515TQ for me WOW!! And If a competitor comes around me with this setup then hes definitely earned it!!! Bang for buck I guess what I'm saying👍👍😁😁
Awesome comparison. Thanks @RichardHoldener for all that you do for the car enthusiast universe. 👍🏾
It's awesome to see you run some GPI cams. They're still leading the record for power made on a SBE LS3. I'd like to see you use them more often.
A cam is a cam. Richard has done 500 cam comparisons. Same specs produce the same results. It’s not rocket science.
Put them both on E85 and watch the gap widen across the curve in favor of the LT1. 91 octane is limiting the LT1 quite a bit. Either way they both are worthy engines and the LS3 is easier to work with...also easier to swap into older vehicles.
may I ask why on your final point
Fail.
Can't wait to see a 6.6 L8T test
Yes please! So excited about this engine
For sure 6.6 will be beast w the Richard Holdener upgrades :-)
Hands down strongest chevy engine ever made!
Great comparison. Both great engines. The gen v is so impressive. I have the gen v 6.2 in a Yukon Denali with a tune, basic stock exhaust mods, ported throttle body and 8l90 trans. 5900 lb with driver and consistent 13.20 et. It gets 22 mpg average.
13.2 is pretty good for something that heavy
Baller. Very impressive. MPG and Speed. Plus room in the back to sleep off a bender cause the wife doesn't have a sense of adventure or humour. Cam it and pin unruly kids to the rear window.
@@james10739 The 8 speed is a big part of the et. It’s clunky at parking lot speeds as many have experienced, but it hits the sweet spot for torque when shifting at 6k rpm and uses the hp at the top of each gear as well. Gm did a good job on the ratios, but it’s the clunkiest factory trans I’ve ever had.
James, did the tuner help smooth out the clunky trans? I have a 15 sierra with the same motor/trans.
@@paulbrinker482 It didn’t change the occasional unexpected 1-2 or 2-1 shift and “clunk” below 5 mph. It does shift great other than that. Very firm with the tune and I like that.
Thanks Richard! You're always a wealth of information!
I think until 6,000 rpm.... that LS3 was definitely holding its own. So with some different parts yeah it’s a contender
Lol; With some different parts a Gen 1 SBC would be a contender.
@@kennethpowers8995 agreed
Until 6000rpm the ls3 was being walked on if these were in the same car. 50ftlbs of torque at 3000rpm is large difference.
You just never see remotely streetable or even at all 600whp Gen 4 stuff...I was quoted a 434 Darton sleeve combo and it was gonna take a LS7 top end to try....and way to big a cam for my liking...
The 50ftlb is due to vvt
Wow this is great stuff. I mean really gold here haha. Thanks for putting this together.
lt motor is nice but more cost to build more complex more likely to break .i think ill stick with my ls3
That LT1 is really impressive, that low speed torque is key in a street car, it’s still down from a good big block below 3500 rpm, but then it comes alive
Yep. I’d love to see the Holley “dual plenum” cross ram adapted to fit on LT heads. Would be a torque monster down low and in the middle!
Yea but as someone switching from badass BBC that LT1 is gonna be 300lbs lighter....that evens the playing field...
I wouldn't worry about anything under 4500rpm with this modified LT1 it will be needing a 4400-5000rpm stall converter to take full advantage of this setup it has enough low end grunt from idle to 3000rpm for cruising or normal street driving and yes it will be a bit soft with a 4400-5000rpm stall converter from idle to 3000rpm it will rev extremely fast at the slightest push on the gas petal and go into lockup at cruising speed at 45-50mph depending on gearing my car has a 4200rpm lockup stall converter with a 6L80e transmission it's soft until 2500-2600rpm and goes into lockup at part throttle or street driving in 5th gear at 40-45mph and 6th gear at 50- 55mph at part throttle feeling no more affects of the stall converter unless the throttle is pushed down more while at these speeds it will unlock with a very little bit more throttle pressure on the gas petal
When it's clean sheet like me there is about an $800 surcharge for DBW, DI and trans control ( my 67 Camaro has a 4l80e/billet lock up) on the Holley with 3.5 inch screen and VVT ( Cam 4X even less).
Given the fact the stock heads will do well especially when ported ( you can tell this is what they wanted to do with the LS7 raise that runner NUTS like it is on the LT1, but they never got the LS7 right ) I'll actually be saving....
Also the fact I can buy a 3.860 L8T forged stroker ( center counter weighted too ) crank for $500 and it slide right in the Gen 5 block makes it just piston and rods for me to be up near 700hp...
I've been looking and looking as I AM replacing a BBC I'm used to making 700+ hp with, it is HARD to find a 600whp Gen 4 LS.....
I was quoted doing a custom darton sleeve 5.3l Gen 4 block to 4.155 and custom 4.00 rotator...then the best heads money can buy ( generally have to go LS7 and their intake ) and at 434ci barely be 550whp or 650 flywheel....
The Gen 5 can do it at stock bore with the 3.860 crank for 400ci aka 6.6L, with much less cam and save a TON on heads...
So more power, smaller cam less money from clean sheet and literally can run to 9s aka illegal in my old 67 NA...works for me...im not scared of DI...I just come from a boosted Gen 3 coyote and I'm used to dealing with the DI and tuning the blend.....
Other than pure budget gap n go turbo stuff I can't see why anyone would still mess with the Gen 3/4....the stock crank on Gen 5 is stronger too...heads better...even better than LS7 when you count the LS7 failures that even the aftermarket doesn't have solved in my research....
I'm leaning heavily to Gen 5.....
Direct injection allows you to run higher comp ratios on pump gas than port injection. 14:1 comp ratio on E85 direct injected motors is very doable, and 12.5:1 on boosted E85 DI motors is also doable, of course with a good tune.
Yes!
The LS is not dead. Yet.
Started a new job recently(Architectural fab)All the guys warned me about the head shop lead. I was talking cars and engines with this dude, and he responds with "I'm not into cars at all."
It all make sense now. Lol
The LT1 has made 650+ rwhp now 3 years later on max effort stock cube heads cam sbe builds. GPI CID heads. over 14:1 compression. pump e85. GPI Hi ram cam. ported Hi ram or cid manifold. They are making 100hp over the lt1 setup in this test now. An engine test a couple years ago made 759 crank at gpi with the original track attack cam which is a bit less aggressive than the hi ram cam as well. Things are getting interesting with the strokers too. They just did a 454 LT and made over 1000 hp with pump e85 and still a hydraulic roller setup. Crazy to think what it could do on fuel and solid roller.
they are doing some impressive stuff
Awesome job Richard! You tempt me to modify my 18 Denali 6.2…I just need another 100 ponies is all😊
On Camaros, i'd be perfectly happy with either 6.2L. That much lighter, dialed in 6th gen platform shared with the LT1 makes far more difference to me than subtle numbers differences from either of these great V-8s. 99.99% of my driving will be on the street and not track, so easy decision here.
Your comparing red apples to green apples make it make sense 😦
Please do a mild VVT cam in the Gen V L86 or LT1. Use both 6.2 L intakes and maybe the Gen V LT2 intake ~IF~it bolts up. Im curious to see if GM did as good of a job on the LT1/L86/LT2 intakes as they did on the LS3. Plus that BTR intake killed the GenV torque. After these are done, do a LT1 416 stroker with a mild/street cam. The optimized stock engines dynos were real good. The Gen Vs was a torque monster. I am getting tirred of asking for the 416 GenV , so please just do it, LOL. Keep up the great work Ricjhard.
I HAVE LT INTAKE VIDS UP
@@richardholdener1727 i seen it. thanks
Have any data on a stock L99 vs LT1? Both have VVT. By the way...same question as before on the live stream. Does BTR have any VVT cam's in store for the L99?
Ported heads and a compression bump are needed on the LS3. Even playing field from there.
The Lt1 gains were a little bit down on what I expected. Clearly pretty good straight from the factory.
Would expect the Ls3 to make more power than the Lt1 if it had all the good life affirming parts you listed added on to it.
More power is life affirming.....
I like the way you think.
I saw a video of a guy explaining that Direct Injection engines were problematic and he recomended port injected like the LS3. It was something about not cleaning the residuos of the valves and that in time will degrade de engine.
valve build up is an issue with di
I have a 2018 6.2 lt stock minor upgrades and honestly can tell you , its a torque monster.
I think milling and porting the factory heads on the LS3 will make it a closer match up. Still hard to beat that VVT stuff. GPI is getting it in tho...
Yup. And whatever way you decide to do to close that gap, it will still cost less than an LT1 dropout lol Also keep in mind that the first thing thats done with any sort of decent camshaft upgrade is VVT delete. Piston-valve clearance is TIGHT from the factory on the LT stuff so theres not as much wiggle room.
@@rustysausage69 #AGREED. I'm sticking with the LS stuff. Tuning the LT stuff is expensive also. It's just like when the LS stuff first came out. It made way more power than the Gen 1/2 stuff and was expensive. Eventually the prices will fall but for now, I'm staying with the LS stuff.
@@jaydubb71 Exactly my thoughts too. Ill make my way into LT when the time comes and the aftermarket REALLY makes the fuckery worth it, but right now the power gain is definitely not worth the price hike.
Made my way into the Gen V stuff and never looked back.
That torque difference in stock form is MASSIVE lol. I can't wait to see a tall-deck 500-inch LT1 that retains VVT and VCT. You could get a MONSTER motor out of that if you ran it on E85 with 13:1 compression or higher. I wonder if you could reach 800 lb-ft and 1000 hp...
I'm running an ls3 stock motor, pac 1218 springs and twin low mount Chinese t3/t4 turbos making 620hp on the factory ecu @10psi and on uk pump gas :)
Compare LS 600+hp vs 600+ NA Big Block. Put both into same car using same transmission,rear gears, and see which has the fastest 1/4 mile et trap MPH. Battle of the LS vs Big block which of the two will win?
I think the extra torque BBC will win. same Hp w maybe 50lb ish extra tq ? Just my opinion. I'd love to put 620hp LS in my drag S10.
@@austintyler7991 it will be very interesting Comparing the two different motors/engine's in the same car.
Thanks for all the knowledge it’s just upsetting that the original lt1 was a 350 right. It’s just like ls1 was a 5.7 just like the 350 was a 5.7. I’m just glad that the ls exhaust ports are spread apart not like the 350 heads where the middle ones are close to gather and robs it’s power.
Would like to see some LT1/L86 cam, cam/ ported heads comparisons, cam/heads and some intake combos. Please
Everyone else "im a lock out the vvt" 🤦♂️
Yea you should only do that if you run a big enough cam where piston to valve clearance becomes an issue.
Was REALLY hoping you'd put the L86 manifold on just for fun. Make a budget torque-beast build video with an L86/LT1!
The first time I pulled a LT1 apart to do a cam/headers swap I was like omg. These heads are made for making power. I knew there was a lot of potential engineered into the LT1 compared to the LS platform. And we did a heads/cam/headers/intake on basically stock bottom end it it put 713hp to the tires in a 2017 Camaro threw a manual. I was highly impressed.
We were testing intakes and the MSD atomic intake made the most power threw the whole power band.
HCI LT1 making 713 wheel hp? with how much boost?
0 boost. No spray. All motor. Stock bore. Factory ported heads on a Cnc program. Dyno’d in a camaro. To the hub dyno. With a manual. 713hp!!! I literally shit. I may still have the video. If you have a email I’ll send it. HCP in spring Texas has one of the best head guys in the country.
You should give elli a call. It’s HPC in spring Texas. (Northwest Houston) He’s the owner. Great guy. The camaro is his personal car. Could possibly dyno some of his stuff I worked at another shop down the street. He dyno’d all his cars at the shop I worked at.
def not making that much power on a sbe lt1, especially not with the msd.
If both motors had same compression, head flow and cam specs, they would make the same peak power & torque. The only caviat being the LT1 will make more average power (better down low) because of the variable cam timing.
If they were exactly the same, they’d be exactly the same,no ?
Im not so sure. I still think the LT would still make more because of Direct injection. If the heads flowed the same on a flow bench, then the LT would make more power when on the car, because it wouldn't have to flow both air and fuel through the intake ports and into the cylinder. That means no air is being displaced by fuel. Also, DI cools the cylinder allowing you to run more timing.
Personally I blame squirrels
Me two John. More Twooo..
I would love to see the new 6.6L direct injection motor
yes
The guys at Katech have made 800hp out of a 427 LT1. I think the LT1 has some pretty good potential. Is there a similar Coyote series comming ? You did a couple of vids, but nothing quite so extensive.
NA? Impressive. Crank?
@@trashbandit2449 yes
And I was quoted needing a darton sleeve 434 with LS7 top end to be over a 100hp LESS than that on Gen 4....
I think since it's a clean sheet retrofit, I'm going to go GEN 5, not scared of DI just did a Boosted Gen 3 coyote, use their cheap forged center counterweighted 3.860 stroker crank in the stock 4.065 block for a 400ci and use the stock heads but have em ported....good piston and rod...be done with it...
Be cool to put those lt heads on the 6.2 Ls and see how close it comes with the smaller chamber
Something that's an running argument
Reversing the pistons
That on Chevy, ford, mopar would make a decent series of videos
that test is planned (on 1 motor)
2013 camaro ls3 gm stage 2 cam, gm cnc ported heads, 1.8scorpion rocker arms. sheet metal intake 105mm BBK throttle body. will make 680hp. I did it in 2015.
Have you thought about seeing what you can do with the 6.2 l99? I have a completely stock lower end, heads and cam l99 in my 2012 Camaro SS with the addition of fuel pump 1000cc fic injectors, e-85 and a 2.9L Whipple supercharger. My tuner was amazed at how much more rear wheel power he was able to get out of it as opposed to an LS3 with the same setup. He did a safe tune, but was able to get 670 hp at the rear wheel. I've been having some transmission problems that I will be fixing shortly, but still am running a 10.85 1/4 mile with vvt still active.
why would that 6.2l make more than another 6.2L?
Okay bud. I've been meaning to ask. I thought you were going to start producing your own Cams and lately it's been a lot of BTR love. Did I miss a memo?
no production cams-maybe some left over test cams
How much for a ls test cam
Stock lt1 impressed. Modified lt1 not so much ill take a simpler ls3 to Modify for now.
I choose ls3 all day and twice on Sunday. Dont even want to mess with the cam timing on the lt1
I think the LS engine family is hands down better than anything LT
My Lt1 trans am would pull like a freight train from 0to60 it was plenty fast enough for the street. 😎
L94/L99 VVT Gen IV vs LT1 Gen V, that would be more apples to apples. We know holley doesnt have VVT control, but it has to be noted VVT makes more before and after LS3 cams. And no fly cutting the pistons, to keep them more real world. Has to be the biggest cam without relief cuts in the pistons.
So Richard when are you going to wear the new shirt Lisa made you that says "wrong heads" ? Lol...
Another one should say "wrong cylinder."
i want either of these engines !!!
Ported factory casting LS3 heads would have made 20 more HP and a aftermarket casting even more. Aftermarket casting head, like a PRC, gives more valve relief for a bigger cam too. Not saying the LS3 would have made the same or more power but it for sure would have made more with the same mods. I don't think anyone should argue that fact.
Regardless, apples to apples, Gen V makes more power. I'm not surprised considering GM has always been able to make more power with each successor.
I just bought 2016 Escalade which has the factory rated 420HP 6.2 . I wondered why this motor has the same horsepower as the previous gen Escalade.
If you are on the fence between these two engines get the ls3. You dont want direct injection.
LSA; 100% Stock Heads, Stage 1 Cam,Jokerz Ported Blower, E85, 16.5 psi boost.......780rwhp
I just picked up a 2018 GMC SIERRA Denali with the L86. This video makes me sad.
I just realized the 429 stroker LS3 in my 2010 Camaro SS makes about what a heads/cam/intake version of my truck motor would make.
That makes me happy at the same time because my truck will be way better after headers and a tune.
LS3 in a 5th gen, 568rwhp; 11:33 CR, TFS 262 FED custom heads, solid roller 239/253 720' 702', ZL1 inj, T&D rockers, 91oct, sheetmetal custom Goertz1 intake, EWP, 2'' SW headers& stock NPP catback, remote tuned by Pat G. The rpm signal on the dyno was skewed and numbers were still climbing at 7200rpm, I estimate 575-580rwhp. I have now a full 3'' exhaust and 2.75'' Z28 mufflers, I hope it'll make 590rwhp. Close to 685hp.
I think both engine are very similar but the LT1 has a big advantage stock with VVT. With a cam and same CR, totally equal engines, but i prefer LS3 cause its more old school. LT1 cars are faster cause vvt, better trans (A10) and lighter....
I bet with a GPI flycut cam in this combo with GMPP ported heads, thinner gaskets, you'd see exactly the same hp in both or almost. LT1 is not superior when the LS3 is cammed.
685 hp LS3 with a 239 intake cam?
@@richardholdener1727 yes same cam. Its a solid roller, no flycut stock bottom LS3, so maybe equivalent to a hydrolic 233/247. The 12 degrees heads gave me more room for a bigger cam and smaller head gasket/ higher CR.
As the graph shows. I clearly see the power increase for the ported heads and larger TB. Id be willing to bet...a gen 4 would match the power numbers with the same mods. The low rpm torque is a direct function related too the direct port injection and higher compression. All in all they are the same engine. To take advantage of the gen 5 direct injection. Your compression could be much higher. So the only component that is actually a improvement for the lt1 is the ability to support higher compression. The hp in this case is strictly from the ported heads.
@@bigboreracing356 LMAO
Please continue this testing with the LS3
I have an all motor combo LS3 with GPI SS4 NFC Cam, 821 Casting Heads Ported by GPI and milled .120 with Flycuts .150 deep
Looking to go with dual 4150s or 4500s, go to 2” headers, electric water pump, and crank scraper
I think the Gen 4 can compete but the Gen 5 are just great for NA power.
Never Dyno’d after milling heads
Just basic heads cam Fast Lsxhr manifold and 1 7/8 headers made 540 at the ground
If you ever come across one, I'd love to see you do a comparison of an L76 6.0L all aluminum truck engine with VVT vs. Maybe a Gen 3 6.0L or maybe the LT1 or one of the 5.3 variants to see How it compares and responds with VVT cams.
I ran an LY6 (iron block version) but have not run it with VVT
I have an L76 in my GMC Sierra and always wondered what it's power potential could be. It runs so good in stock trim with a little help from headers (and exhaust) and a power programer and throttle enhancer.
Even displacement, airflow, and optimized tune should have close to the same power when modified.
The LT would still make more power because of VVT and Direct injection. Although, depending on the cam duration, you might not be able to use the VVT.
GREAT VIDEO RICHARD!!!! BITH ARE GREAT MOTORS!!! IS THE LT AVAIBLE IN THE JUNKYARD TODAY?
LOTS OF L83S
The world needs a dyno test of reversing the piston pin offset to make more power...and you're the guy to do it.
😂
agreed
I would love to see a ford 300 i6 done bone stock
Then run efi manifolds
Port fuel injection
And a cam with this spec
268 advertised duration
208 intake at 50
212 exhuast at 50
477 intake lift at 50
488 exhaust lift at 50
110+4
Then
Put twin turbos on it that will make peak boost at 4500 up
And if you can run coil on plug with megasquirt or aem or something and then compare it with a twin turbo or turbo 302 sbf you've done, 300 6 vs 302 SBF
Will need to replace the pistons with new hyper or forged,
Arp studs on everything and bigger valve springs and your set
Gen 5 4.3 EcoTec3!!!!!
you said you wanted ideas; how about testing a well tuned RED modified Holley against fuel injection. use a 600hp engine
RED modified?
@@richardholdener1727 here is one, but NOT the one I want to see tested, the one I want tested has 3 metering jets (each plate) that can be changed and an outer Air Bleed jet on the top of the metering plates.
billmitchellproducts.com/product/aed-performance-650-ho-series-aluminum-carburetor-gas-std-booster-billet-red-metering-blocks-al650ho-rd-click-here-more-info/
Cost is a huge factor. iI takes over half again more money to build an LT than an LS, money that could be spent on an LS to make more power. Spending that money on an LS will net you more HP on an LS than LT. Plus LS is way more simple to work on and if your HIGH DOLLAR LT pump fails you get to buy it again. LT is nice with the flat torque curve with VVT but I'll stick with the LS
Gen 4 is best for boost. LT1 (D.I.) has fuel system limitations, putting it at 8xxhp ceiling. built both, have to pick D.I. for ice cream and burnouts but LS3 for max effort race build. i built L86 with untouched heads, intake, mild cam, springs, tune, makes 500hp on chassis dyno.
Gen V has stronger block, and bigger head bolts, so is better for boost. Add port injection for extra fuel once the DI injectors are at their limit.
@@andyharman3022 I hate that one driver head bolt hex lol
Still learning di limits
That Gen V LT1 made the same power as a 441ci LS3 I just saw on another channel. The 441 LS3 made 90 more ftlbs of torque tho
This is a great review. I'm trying to figure out which e-rod motor to buy the LS3 or the LT1 for a 1990 short bed pickup truck. I like the idea of the extra torque down low but not sure the added complexity of direct injection and variable valve timing is worth it.
ls3. no vvt or cylinder deactivation. no collapsed lifters. plus, they only come with 6 speed manuals in the camaro. the automatics are the l99 with all the vvt and stuff. an ls3 with 430 horse dynos at 370 rwhp, while the 400 horse auto only has 320 rwhp. the manual is much stronger and way more fun
The question is, since it would be easy, would be to run the LS3 with a Holley High Ram? We all know a dual TB efi is the optimum setup...he has told us this....I think that helped the LS3 a lot....
But dang that LT1 wanting to rev to 7500rpm like a Coyote is nuts
I have run the LS3 with a high ram-see the big LS3 intake test
@@richardholdener1727 yes I get so confused you sneaky rascal I end up watching them all multiple times to get my answers....
I hope for more LT testing...im thinking about an aluminum l86 4.065 LT block with their cheapo L8T forged 8 counter weight crank for a cheapish 400ci LT with ported heads and a cam say from TSP that includes the VVT table...
Hoping for 650 flywheel around 11.5 to 1, doable ?
5th Gen Lt1 is a work of art. Buttery smooth monster.
Looks like the LT1 made more Torque in stock configuration than with the bigger cam and heads
mill the stock heads .075 an run a gpi no fly cut with .075 cuts..be around 12-1 comp an should do 640s with stock ports an good valve job..my heads are milled .100 an my bill feckly are .080..
How do you keep DI intake valves clean though. Even with a catch can over thousands of miles they develop deposits. The high pressure fuel pump and injectors are a PITA to change.
WATER METH WOULD HELP
apples 2 apples is hard as hell to do unless you are a performance shop with a lot of money.
When the LT1 came out, I remember an article about how close if not better the LT1 was than the almighty LS7. Maybe do a comparison with those if you have the info. Thanks for all the great content.
I'd say it's not quite on the LS7 level, but its pretty damn close. The LS7 was ahead of its time in my opinion though. Could you imagine a modern LS7 with VVT and direct injection? 🤤 Heads/cam C6Zs are still fast as hell even by today's standards.
@@Jr_5646 you mean like. the l8t
@@bill2178 I dont know much about the l8t, but it doesn't seem like a high performance engine comparible to the LS7 to me. The LS7 was based off the LS1.R from the racecar. The l8t is an iron truck engine. The LS7 had an aluminum block, titanium rods and valves, and could rev over 7,000 rpm. A modern LS7 would make way more power while being way lighter IMO.
@@Jr_5646 it wont make as much but with the right cam and intake im pretty sure it could be somewhere in the middle between lt1 and ls7
You should do a build on one of them lv3 4.3
Are some the 4.3 aluminum block ?
That lt1 is so impressive
I think it’s not that much of a difference, if you go with a ported head on the ls3 I think it would just be making a copy of the lt1. The variable cam timing would be the only difference and that still isn’t too significant in my opinion. That makes me wonder, can lt1 heads fit an ls3?
They will with a little modification Brian Tooley has a video on channel
Do an L92 WITH VVT and factory ECU. I know you did an L92 with a 6 liter can but I feel like you left power on the table with that set up.
SUGGESTION: LT VS ZO6. WHEN IT BECOMES AVAIABLE.
I’m pretty sure stock LS3 heads outflow stock LT1 heads but the LT1 does not have to flow any fuel through the ports so the actual mass of air could be equal or exceed LS3. interesting comparison Richard. Thanks for all that you do
I think you're right. DI eliminates the need for the intake ports to handle fuel flow, freeing up capacity for about 7% more air.
That is interesting. I hadn't even considered that aspect of DI.
What about exhaust port flow
That's an excellent point, but giving the fuel and air slightly more time to atomize before entering the combustion chamber helps with intake temps and more efficient atomization. I'm not convinced there's much of a difference. Especially when you consider the high rate of carbon deposits that occur in DI engines. That carbon build up creates hot spots in the combustion chamber which changes the tune. Since we're doing a deep theoretical drive that's something else to consider. DI does have drawbacks.
I would like you to do a test on the Gen 3 hemi 392 factory 6 speed cam with boost and then a Comp Cam 274 with boost....I bet the out come would be surprising
Late to the party just found this video. I had a 2007 Z06 with LS7, Stock yes i had the heads replaced, then went to an SS Sedan LS3, whoa! less cubes and heavier car, I put the Factory Roots style Blower (LSA) on a the Stock LS3. OH yeah now some torque is back, but the vehicle was too long for me. Got a 2014 Z51 LT1, its ok but not an LS7 or supercharged built LS1 or LS3 with LSA. So now what? I really like this C7 Vette but missing the grunt and bluster of these other engines. Been Pricing things out: Cam ($500) but $8,000 Installed, Ouch, Heads $3,000 port my heads Installed, Intake slim pickings $1,000. Headers $2000 installed, A&A Vortech $10,000 installed. WTF? Can you assess Tuner Kits for the LT1? The biggest push i have heard so far was a quick and dirty A&A Vortech Kit to reach 600 HP with fuel system upgrades. But still $10,000 is a lot of Jack for a one shot kit, will it do the job, will it have strong torque down low, 3,500 RPM? Will ir allow the LT1 to Rev??? Cn the LT1 cam rev at all ?? How does 11 to 1 work out with boost and stock valve train???? Is there a need to work on the intake at all with Boost??? Can HCI beat out the A&A Vortech Type Blower bolton??? Would love to hear you inputs on Hot Rodding the LT1 in a C7. Thanks, Dennis
talk to BTR
Hey Richard. The moded LT1 was a disappointment IMO considering ported heads and big cam. The LT1 lost ~70 lb/ft @ 4000 and had lower peak torque? If the cam was bigger on the LT1 wouldn't BTR have had to lock out the VVT? Would that explain the huge loss in torque?
VVT is used to boost low rpm torque. Its a big deal like 50 ft lb on a 6.0L engine. It doesn't boost peak torque.
Their is only one problem with the modified version of the LS3 and LT1 motors. Those combinations would be absolutely horrible for a car you run on the street and strip or just on the strip. You won't be able to get it to idle under a1000 rpm in other words an absolute pain in the ass to live with. Those tests are of no use to anyone other than an all out drag racer. I would love if you you could do more testing and development for street and street/ strip motors that might be more relevant for about 80% of your viewers.
Stock for stock and mod to mod the LT1 engine is more powerful. I've seen stock LT1 Camaros trapping 118. Yes, the 10 speed is definitely an advantage. But that won't affect trap speed much. I've never seen a LS3 Camaro trap 118. That's LSA speed. Sadly, most LS3 Camaros trap sub 110.
I re-watched this and saw my old comment.
I still think the LS3 is a better overall package. Simpler setup. Exposed injectors, No VVT. It just plain works.
-- However, I do wonder, what about an LT1 DI delete (Machine aluminum plugs to put into the injector holes), MSD airforce, against the LS3, Both running E85, 6500 RPM rev limit.
-- I like the JE pro notched pistons with the ceramic coating. Upgraded rods, stock crank.
I liked the 2nd dyno test for 620 hp the best out of all the testing. I think that motor ROCKS for the street, and has insane low end torque. I did not like the last test for the street. The higher end power was not worth the lower end power loss in my opinion.
in the 6gen SS it might not even be noticable since its lighter than 5th gen with a much better chassis. Just my 2 cents not saying your wrong im just not sure it would matter with those differences.
The 620 was out of stock LS3 heads, with ported LS3 heads, the tunnel ram and that big cam that car would've made over 700HP.
Richard Holdener hope ur doing well. Aluminum block 4.3 V6. Did factory produce in last 10 yr ? Thanks great work brother keep it coming.
is the new one an alum block?
@@richardholdener1727 i don't know. Guess i can call GM maybe they would know lol. Have great weekend brother
Would like to see some l9h instead of ls3. The l9h never gets enough attention.
@Richard Holdener have you done any LT heads on LS blocks? I see BTR is working on some testing, I would love to see an LT headed LS3 Dyno!
BTR has done that
@@richardholdener1727 do you have any comparison information on potential power gains between LS3 heads and the LT heads? I'm curious if the LT heads would be a performance upgrade or is there any benefit to them on an LS based engine. Thanks for your reply!