Leaving the LDS Church: Ex Mormon Josh Rolph
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- Опубликовано: 30 июн 2024
- Former devout mormon Josh Rolph talks about the moment he was confronted with a crisis of faith, and the fallout that occurred.
www.shiftstormpodcast.com
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Thanks Josh for being brave and speaking out. I live outside D.C. Born and raised in the church. Served mission, married in the temple, and at 49 dove into church history and the church today. Said out loud by myself exactly what you said. It’s been hard. My husband is a strong believer. I did ask him to choose our marriage over the church and so far he said he chooses me. It’s had its ups and downs. We have 4 older sons. I just want us all out. We’re getting there, but when you are born and raised in this religion it’s hard to learn the truth and walk away. I think of it like the matrix and choosing to take the red pill over the blue. I’m so glad I’m out now looking in. I see it all so differently now. I’m happier than I’ve ever been. And instead of living for the next life, I’m choosing to live for this one. I love myself, my husband and my children more than ever. It’s hard to explain unless you are or have been Mormon. All the best Josh.
It seems really tough because mormonism is sooo often directly tied to the family structure. Leaving mormonism seems to be like leaving your family. What would you call yourself now?
The fact that people live for an afterlife that is unproven was one of the reasons why I was never an active member after I left my parent's home. It's just one more thing about Mormonism that doesn't ad up. In my opinion, it is the height of immorality to prey upon people's fear of death for monetary gain. It makes me want to vomit when I hear those corporate piece of shit "general authorities" and other muckity mucks talking about morality. They know nothing about true morality.
Hi, I'm a exmo of 2 years and was a lifelong generational member for 34 years. I have to say when Josh said "complete sadness" when he found out it wasn't true I can resonate with that completely. I was a TBM and I get told all the time that I didn't understand the doctrine that's why I left. Keep your head up Josh and God bless you for speaking out 🙏
That hits hard! I think there's a lot of victim-blaming that occurs when someone leaves any group. Those still in that group want an easy way to write off their reasons so that they don't have to actually confront their own doubts. Doubts are uncomfortable; groupthink is comfortable because it allows us to outsource our thinking.
What would you call yourself now?
@@ShiftStormPodcast that's true, I just had that conversation with my aunt who is now exmo after 60 years! In the end I love the Mormon family that I have and take the hits because I understand it's the power of group think.
I don't resent my upbringing because in the end it brought me to being saved as a born again Christian ✝️❤️ I have been saved for over a year now. Praise God!
I actually do a Tiktok on the differences on Mormonism and Christianity it's called Thrice_Ministry I'm working through the articles of faith right now.
Thank you for giving Josh a platform to tell his story. I like to say it's the best polished cultish religion out there so it flys under the radar.
@@laracroftismyhomegirl that's awesome! I'm gonna follow you. I'm @madcowan on TikTok
@@ShiftStormPodcast Thank you! Can't wait to see more of your content!
I am an ex Mormon. What got me was realizing that there really was a Hell. I never heard anything about a Hell until I went to a Baptist church. My testimony is such a magnificent journey that would take an hour to tell. I'm just so thankful that I found the true God. Mormonism is a complete different culture that is not easy to leave.
I joined the church in the UK when I was 23. Went on a mission to the Detroit mission, then the Deerborn mission. My wife is a RM (returned missionary). Three of my 4 daughters are RM's. So we were quite active in the church. I did not even want to entertain any thought that the church was not true. It meant everything to me. It made sense of the world to me and why we were here on this earth. Any negative thing against the church, I just shoved it on my shelf . We'll the layers slowly peeled apart, and I delved into the church history, this plus loads of other issues I realised I could no longer believe in what I was taught and also what I taught. The more I look into issues, be it church history, dishonesty of finances, racism, Joseph Smith being a sex preditator, the list just goes on and on. I was lucky enough that my wife was also going through the same, so that helped us both. One of my RM daughters no longer believes. My younger daughter never has. My two other RM daughters are still active, and we want to support them while they still believe. It was forty-two years ago I joined the church, and I stopped going about a year ago. Certainly be a roller coaster ride. There were a lot of good things, but a lie is a lie, and I no longer want to live a lie being deceived by leaders who either are decieved themselves or are decievers.
@@smaug3045 man that’s tough. Realizing that so much of what you spent your time and life decisions on is not something you believe has got to be earth shaking. And complicated when you have kids still in it.
What would you describe yourself as now, if anything?
@ShiftStormPodcast Not interested in religion, still believe life has a purpose, and there is a higher being, whatever we call him/her. I keep my mind open, but I will not join any organised religion.
Don't be too hard on yourself. We all felt the same way.
We were Born & raised in $1TRILLION Mormon cult led by Q15 UT CON MEN for over 50+ yrs seeking $200k tithing refund, as our money was hoarded in $180 Billion stock market Ensign Peaks accts & used to buy real property, making it 2nd largest landowner in the nation!! Instead of giving it charitably, as we gave it.
Mormon tithing money should have been used to bless the hungry homeless diseased & dying. So much Blood on the hands of UT Mormon Q15 leadership! Jesus weeps at Mormon lack of generosity & charity!!
@@lynnjohns4650 is this the comment you were looking for? ☝🏾
I’m sorry that you see it that way. I always thought it was pretty clear that fast offerings were what was used to help the poor and needy. Tithing is for “building the kingdom”…whatever that looks like.
Tithes fund our subterranean city salt town.go go team zion
I admire this man's courage to be true to himself rather than pretending to believe the lie just to keep the peace with his family. One should always be true to their own self above following the delusional beliefs of other people.
The reason Mormans put so much emphasis on member testimony because it’s a tactic all cults use to convince the members their doctrines are true using repetition. In real Christianity, the testimony of the revealed truth is primarily the Gospels. In Mormonism it’s a constant repetitive parade of members getting up in front of each other every Sunday and saying “I know the church of Mormonism founded by Joseph Smith is True after they give a some sort of an emotional presentation about some aspect of their lives. Again all cults use this tactic when their church is built on questionable doctrine
@@williamburns7354 interesting! Do you think there’s any value in “real” Christians getting up and sharing their testimonies?
@@ShiftStormPodcastI think they are some similarities among non denominational Protestants a lot less in the major denominations. But remember you are comparing two different books. Mormans are trying to convince themselves on the revelations of Joseph Smith (his three books) and their subsequent prophets. Christians are attesting to the truth of 2000 year old gospels without any revealator that came after the death of the last apostle to Christ. So all the revelations that formed Christian doctrine two thousand years ago ended with the death of the last apostle. That is referred to as public Revelation. Christians and their leaders can have private revelations but they cannot be codified into Christian doctrine. In Mormonism it’s the inverse. It’s central to their beliefs that the living Mormon apostles private revelations can amend or completely change doctrine
39:02 the answer is that the spirit attracts people to the church. This includes artists, scientists, engineers (like me), doctors, scholars, maids, housewives, theologians, and anyone else who is willing to listen to the promptings of the Holy Ghost who is the testifier of truth. It makes sense that someone who has left the church wouldn't talk about this because if they still believed it was the spirit, they wouldn't have left.
People are people
The way the mormon holy spirit works is if you believe in the bible your a fool dishonest and insincere and if you believe in the book of mormon your a sincere honest person. No manipulation thier
@@mae-qt8hw not sure where you heard this from, but that couldn't be further from the truth. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (mormons) study the Old Testament each week for an entire year, then the following year we study the New Testament each week for an entire year. So I don't think anyone can honestly say what you just said being properly informed.
I didn't want to look at the relatively few wounds from Mormonism I received compared to others either, yet when you're a queer woman, it stays with you no matter how quietly or how loudly you leave it behind.
@@mortenle what was the straw that broke the camels back for you?
Amen Josh! Thanks for sharing your journey with us! Love you brother!
Ostracism is the price for personal integrity. It's not easy to go through. Like Josh, I had been very strong in my commitment to mormon doctrine, culture and it's ideals. I held many of the callings over many years including: stake high council, bishopric (1st counselor), gospel doctrine teacher, high priest group leadership (1st counselor), elder's quorum presidency (1st counselor), elder's quorum instructor, sunday school presidency, sunday school teacher (various ages), ward mission leader, of course, home teacher (back in the day), early morning seminary teacher, and other callings... different callings while on the mission, etc., etc. I spent 2 years studying and praying once I began to realize that the church MIGHT not be true. Eventually, I realized that there was no possible way that GOD, the creator of the universe, could be so inept that his selected prophets on earth could be the lying hypocrites who have led mormonism throughout it's existence. I didn't have any choice but to leave the church. How could I live the lie? It resulted in divorce and ostracism by my "good christian" extended family. Hang in there, Josh.
28:40 And this is exactly why you need to dig deeper when you hear anti-LDS propaganda. 9 times out of 10 when I have done this I have found an explanation for what these anti-LDS people claim. It takes faith to keep digging and looking for answers, but please don't give up.
What about the other 10%?😂
@@philclegg8169 still working on finding answers. Why would that be funny. Do you know everything?
I wouldn’t think the Word of God would be a 90/10 operation. But it seems to work for tithing. One falsehood should be enough for a logical examination to make a conclusion.
If The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter-day Saints isn't the only true Church, there isn't one. For it is the only Church that fulfills all the signs Jesus Christ gave for his true followers, no other church comes close. It's okay, about 40% of those who leave come back, because there is nothing better out there. Some may take decades, so they definitely aren't brainwashed, they just take longer to realize the truth. No church is more hated of all men for Jesus Christ's name's sake, and no one loves their enemies more. No church does more to feed the hungry, clothes the naked and visit the sick and afflicted, all without a single penny going to those running the programs, yet they are also the most financially secure. The members live on average ten years longer than any others calling themselves Christians. The are more likely to marry, less likely to divorce, less likely to self terminate and less likely to be forced into intimacy. And while most churches calling themselves Christians are losing members, this Church continues to be among the fastest growing, even with all of the members Satan is tricking away, and again that's with it being hated and attacked and lied about by all men for Jesus Christ's name's sake. And nobody calling themselves Christians knows the Bible better, even when they tried to skew the data by including knowledge of the Creeds with knowledge of the Bible, even though these additions are unbiblical. By their fruits ye shall know them-Jesus Christ.
@@bartonbagnes4605 that’s interesting, I hadn’t heard that angle before. Which signs does it fulfill that Jesus gave his followers?
@@ShiftStormPodcast I including many, though not all, of the reasons with the edit I decided to make. You can read them there.
@@bartonbagnes4605 thanks I’ll review the added info! If you have any citations that would be helpful for me in my research
Citations needed. My understanding…. LDS church lowest per capita humanitarian aid, the highest suicide rate in the world, lowest amount of historical truth told about its origins of virtually any organization on planet earth. GFY about that run on paragraph about why you think the church is ok. 40% come back. Nope. 80% children of LDS families are leaving today. Even if 40% come back (not true) that means half of kids both in the church leave. People who stay in the church are lazy learners. Everybody knows that.
Roflmao 🤣
After my mission, I worked as a lifeguard. I actually talked with my bishop before I took the job about not wearing my garments (magic underwear) and he said that as long as I wore them every other chance I had that it wasn't something to be worried about... I wasn't the only person in the ward at the time with a job where wearing garments wouldn't work with job required attire. Certainly there's the "Bishop roulette" we speak of where orher Bishop's have been caustic and blunt with people- don't take a job that prevents garment wearing unless you seek damnation...
@@Gideonslc ok that’s interesting! I find those garment rules fascinating. Are you still Mormon
@ShiftStormPodcast nope. Mostly Agnostic. I put God as a cat lover in Schrodinger's box quietly playing, in life & death, with the cat.
Left THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST, refused to repent, from all manners of wickedness. Now, endless excuses.
Peer reviewed research from the Berkeley group confirm only a 1 in a 15 trillion chance that Nephi and Alma were written by the same author.
Wow! That's impressive. Do you have a link to that review?
Well in that case I guess that settles it. Thanks Berkeley! Now we can just ignore the myriad of other problems with it.
@@ShiftStormPodcastType "Word Print Studies Of the Book of Mormon FairLatterDaySaints"
@@FancifulflyfishermanOther problems??
@@RichardHolmes-ll8ii are you serious? The one problem with the BOM of which you are aware is whether it was written by one person or many? And one stylometric test outcome is enough to just settle the matter? If you don’t know about other problems I’ll refer you to BH Robert’s ‘Studies of the Book of Mormon’, a Mormon apostle wrote it so you should feel perfectly safe reading it as it is not an ‘anti-Mormon’ author. And that is just a start.
I was raised mormon, left the church when I was around 19-20 years old. I still have mormon sequel... but I live to be a good person. Have a wife, 3 children At that time.. I just left without knowing everything. I just learned that stuff.. 2 years ago... I'm glad I left early in my life. I don't have much of TBM post traumatic who are leaving the church.
Leaving the church made me more open to the world, more open minded to anything.
My biggest issue with critics of the church is that the ones I have looked at don't seem to "play fair." While not every apologist for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is completely accurate, tactful, and/or any other virtue we would like to see, I find more logical fallacies in the materials produced by critics of the church. I have seen gish-gallops and straw man arguments especially. The problem is that most of any story gets lost to history. We have a lot of original documents surrounding the founding of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, but we still have tons of unanswered questions that cannot be answered because the documents do not exist. Then we have to sift through the differences between accepted norms then and now as well as try to figure out who the "real liar" was. Compounding the problem is that debunked documents are still being circulated as evidence. Church history is much more difficult and nuanced than most people want to admit.
@@elizabethburr2512 what do you see as some of the best evidence for LDS
@@ShiftStormPodcast I've answered this twice, and then I come back to read more comments and can't find my answers? Do you know what's going on?
@@elizabethburr2512 no! I haven’t seen any other comments from you! That’s really weird!
@@elizabethburr2512 would you mind repeating it?
@@summerlake356 I will try. I am fascinated by criticisms of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I joined the faith when I was 18 and living in the middle of the Southern "Bible Belt." Local churches would offer classes on "saving Mormons" and I was witnessed to countless times while I was in college. I wanted to know where my friends were getting all of these ideas that were so different from my experiences. My favorite conversation was when a friend pulled me aside to ask if I was "really Mormon" because I was nothing like his pastor said I would be.
I've done the best research I can, and I've concluded that neither side can prove their claims beyond a shadow of a doubt. I check references where I can, and I listen for agenda and bias in the words used. I've seen good and bad actors on both sides of the issue. I'm left with my own experiences, and my experiences have caused me to be a better person than I could have become on my own, brought me out of codependency into a healthy mental space, and given me a relationship with God that I couldn't find anywhere else. That's the evidence I base my membership on.
I'm a little jaded about providing physical evidence. I've tried on other RUclips videos and have been treated badly, to put it very mildly. I try to avoid those situations when I can. Instead, I will refer you to some places I go for the "church's side." (I'm leaving out the links, that may have been what got my previous answers "washed." I'll give enough info that you should be able to search.)
1. Fair Latter-day Saints: For years they were a questionable source, but the quality of the scholars and the scholarship on the site is improving. I also appreciate that I can check references in the footnotes.
2. Scripture Central has done some scholarly work on evidence, although their focus is more on understanding scripture.
3. Saints Unscripted (and now the new Keystone LDS channel) often touch on tough topics about the church, but they're not as scholarly.
4. Jared Halverson runs a RUclips channel called "Unshaken." His channel is also about studying and pondering scripture, but he studied "anti-religious rhetoric" in divinity school. I don't know him personally, but he seems genuine and often mentions answering emails from people who have questions about church history. I think he is also a BYU professor.
If you are interested about people who are "moving in the other direction," I've found two channels that I enjoy. (They do not cover historical evidence, but might be interesting.)
1. Come Back Podcast
2. Why I Stay Podcast (hosted by Lynzi Clyde)
Both of these are RUclips Channels.
Channels critical of the church are pretty easy to find, so I didn't bother listing any.
When you say "The church is true", ask yourself "true to what"?
Love the name of your channel! Josh, congrats on seeing the truth! Better late than never! There is A LOT more corruption out there besides the Mormon Corporation! Stay free! ❤
How do you know anything about the Corperation when they have powerful lawyers and all thier dealing are to sacred to disclose
Not quite ex yet...but definitely questioning
Thanks for sharing. I think questioning your beliefs is so hard but so important. My own experience has been that it only leads to good things; either releasing myself from beliefs that were not serving the truth, or by strengthening my convictions. What are some of the things you're questioning?
There's nothing to question.
@@RichardHolmes-ll8ii can you elaborate? Are you saying that truth shouldn’t be questioned?
@@ShiftStormPodcastTruth can't be questioned. As truth triumphs faith.
@@RichardHolmes-ll8ii what do you mean “truth triumphs faith “?
I found out the church wasn't true in 2022!
@@jasonvesmam7044 what put you over the edge?
@@ShiftStormPodcast radio free mormon
@@jasonvesmam7044 sounds like that podcast is shaking up a lot of people
Sounds like groupthink, right shiftstorm?
@@Lovethisguy-kf1ku only if they’re blindly believing everything that podcast says, rather than being prompted to research and think critically for themselves.
Josh, did you ever really believe in Jesus and the sacrifice that He made for you? Have you repented of your sins? Followed Him, not man, not Joseph Smith. When you believe in Jesus and obey His commands (not man), He will send you His Holy Spirit. Then and only then will your identity crisis be over. It's not your fault, you were brainwashed, indoctrinated in Mormonism at a young age. Try praying to Jesus and listening to His Holy Spirit, read the Bible, not the Book of Mormon, read especially the Gospels where Jesus teaches the ppl and how to follow him and Him only. Gods blessings, He has this, trust Jesus.
Left 2 years ago.
@@solitairesmith3553 what put you over the edge
@ShiftStormPodcast I was a convert. My ex husband is Iranian. My son is half . My son was told in seminary class in Utah that he could be white when he gets to heaven. Also 2 girls his age at church told him that he wasn't supposed to be at church. If I had been told the TRUTHabout what mormons believe when I was taking the lessons I NEVER WOULD HAVE JOINED.
Also when I went to the bishop for a reasonable answer I was told to "pray about it". I mean wtf does that mean. If I don't get an answer does that mean God doesn't want me or my son?
Just saying...
@@solitairesmith3553 wow, that’s wild… yeah that would be pretty concerning!!
Most people are going along to get along. The Emperor has no clothes. Until the child points out the obvious.
One thing we shouldn’t confuse here., That one religion or all (religions) needless to say are false. That doesn’t mean that we should stop thinking about God all together or pray. And I’m not talking about the LDS church, I’m just stating the fact that God is real
It sounds like you're saying God is real, and religions are all false. Can you elaborate? Isn't belief in God a religious belief?
@@ShiftStormPodcast have you watched testimonies of people that had NDEs? You should and then you will know what I’m talking about
@@pabloareas2258 yes, I’ve known many people who have had that. Many would say that the NDE was a religious experience. I guess the question is in how to define religion, and why, if you do believe in God, you don’t believe that any religion can be true
@@ShiftStormPodcast religion is just a denomination, but it doesn’t mean that the context is true. Even satanist can be a religion, do they also hold the true?
@@pabloareas2258 no, I don’t think Satanism is true. But just because examples can be given of religions that are not true, does it logically follow that NONE are true?
48:27 I can't speak for what people say, but the church teaches that there may very well be more people in celestial glory that were not members of the church in this life. Think of all the people who have passed away as non-members, who were taught the gospel in the spirit world (see 1 Peter 3:19 and 1 Peter 4:6) and received ordinances by proxy (see 1 Corinthians 15). I would say the majority of those who will be in celestial glory will be people who were not members of the church in this life.
Amen Bro! Had a very similar experience!
13:29 "The Temple is a place where very few Mormons go". This is not true at all. All members are encouraged to prepare to enter into the Temple to make covenants with God, and to make those ordinances available to those who have been prepared to receive them in the spirit world.
@@jonathanduran8669 that answer surprised me too haha, but I don’t have a lot of firsthand knowledge
Only those who pay get to play
@jonathanduran8669. Very few Mormons know the evolution of the temple endowment and its direct ties to masonry
It totally is true. If you are outside of Utah it isn’t nearly as common. Of course, every single member is strongly encouraged to go but a small % of the membership actually have temple recommends.
@@King_Puffleump I would love to see your data on that claim.
All the mormon responses here are trying to attack his character like he didn't pray enough . I doubt members pray as much as thier required to other then food prayer which is bless food to nourish and strengthen body
@@mae-qt8hw it’s one of the most popular logical fallacies: ad hominem
45:03 Something important that I've noticed with people who have left or are in the process of leaving the church is that they stop praying. I would imagine that if I was having a faith crisis, that it would be the time when I would pray most ardently and become as humble and patient in listening to the spirit. But interestingly, at least with the cases that I have seen on youtube or in friends of mine, is the opposite. They intentionally sever their connection with God.
I also find it interesting that the interviewer doesn't even probe more into his stopping to pray and how that may have impacted his experience.
@@jonathanduran8669 to be fair, he stopped praying AFTER his crisis of faith, not during. He was no longer a believer, so he could no longer pray in sincerity. He was praying consistently prior to that.
Mormonism is very hard to crack. I'm Mormon but believe Oriental Orthodoxy, specifically Armenian. I highly recommend instilling their gospel into any church you already belong to. God is real. Jesus is our Savior, even if Mormonism is made up.
@@Zorroinstillingorthodoxy it sounds kind of like you’re saying you’re Mormon but don’t believe in Mormonism?
@@ShiftStormPodcast Exactly, but I instill Oriental Orthodoxy into my ward, specifically Armenian.
@@ShiftStormPodcast Exactly, but I instill Oriental Orthodoxy into my ward, specifically Armenian.
When I’m assigned to give the spiritual thought in ward council, I also make sure to infuse some oriental orthodoxy into the meeting, and I frequently present
the message in Armenian when
at all possible.
@@Lovethisguy-kf1ku Holy Guacamole, I have a double. Hallelujah!!
Genuine guy. Glad he came out of the trance
WAKE UP PEOPLE.
@@kevinmcdonald951 care to elaborate?
Latter Day Saint scripture have never been proven as fraudulent works. Especially since Paul Gregersen debunked the arrogant Egyptologist opinions against Joseph Smith.
@@RichardHolmes-ll8ii I’ll have to look him up. Do you have a link to his work?
What do you think is some evidence that supports the LDS scripture?
Josh sorry I may have missed this, was your marriage on the rocks before you decided to leave or was the break up directly related to leaving. My wife and I have discussed this and our marriage is our commitment to each other, we are both members and would not leave our marriage if either of us decided to leave.
Chris here. I'm hesitant to speak on Josh's behalf regarding this point. I don't believe he specified that point during the interview. I think it's great that you and your wife have such a strong commitment and have had conversations around that. Do you believe that's a common attitude for LDS couples?
@@ShiftStormPodcast (Ive just subscribed) Thanks for the reply Chris, I'll make the most of you conversing with the little people whilst you grow your Channel 😃 To answer your question I don't think that ours is a typical attitude, ironically it is our union that the Church teaches is most important. I was recently released as an EQP and it is clear as day that I am not flavour of the month because I question. I recognise the need for faith in my life but critical thinking and faith are not always good bed fellows. Years ago (Still EQP) in an interview with a high counsellor I shared how unfulfilled I felt, serving in church, the same old tread mill, serving I love, people I love, institution not so much. I differ from a lot of people like Josh, in that I believe Joseph, as more and more information is coming to light it is clear as day that there was a lot going on behind the scenes in Joseph's times. Another irony for me is that if Joseph Smith did the things even the church claim he did, he would not be a man of God. There are a lot of people (local) I consider friends who are doing their best, but they will not even entertain that they could be wrong on anything, and that is a very dangerous position to take on anything. I think the days are past that the church can control the narrative, and label people who leave the church as those who simply want to sin. Much respect to Josh though, its not an easy journey confronting the idea that 'one' has been deceived for most of their life, I am on that self same journey.
@@williamhaddock1838 Thanks for the honest and thoughtful response. AND the subscribe 🙂 I promise this channel is not out to attack LDS. I'm actually hoping to find someone who converted to LDS as an adult, and have them on some day.
I love what you're saying about being willing to entertain doubts and challenges. Truth doesn't need to be protected from doubt; doubt is how we find truth!
Pardon my ignorance; what is an EQP?
@@ShiftStormPodcast Another irony, 'We have a leader of the church who once said, 'If we have the Truth it cannot be harmed by investigation, if we have not the Truth it ought to be harmed'. J Ruben Clark
@@williamhaddock1838 well put! I’ve said something similar but I like the way this is worded
35:11 Dang, Josh, do you believe that Joseph Smith was some kind of super genius then, to have narrated the Book of Mormon to scribes in between 53 and 74 working days?
Interviewee skits around the question when interviewer asks question where is Mormonism on the spectrum compared Baptists and other denominations by comparing it to atheism. Like all these ex-Morman videos they always avoid the fundamental question are mormans Christians. Mormonism is not theologically Christian in anyway. Number one they are polytheists. Secondly, they do not believe in the Trinity which is the foundation for all Christian denominations.
@@williamburns7354 I don’t think he was intentionally trying to avoid saying whether Mormonism was Christian. I think because he’s never been a Christian in the traditional sense, his frame of reference is coming from “what are the inherent issues with Mormonism” more than “how does it compare to Christianity”
35:50 If Joseph Smith instituted polygamy purely to satisfy his lustful ambitions, how come he didn't have any children with any of his wives outside of Emma..... 🤔
He was trying to hide it from the world. Fathering children with many women kinda blows up the ruse right? you never heard of the pull out method? even in the 1800s they knew to pull out. Also, abortifacients were in common usage in the 1800s. If brigham young, john taylor, heber kimball, lorenzo snow, etc ALL had many children with their many wives, why do you think Joseph's polygamous marriages didn't include sex?
How terrible to belong to a church that teaches you to be honest, hard working, love your family, do good to others, stay away from alcohol and cigarettes and live a morally good life. Good thing you were able to break away from that!
@@ileneperry6609 do you think Mormonism is the only religion that teaches those things? And if it is the only religion that teaches those particular morals, does that make it true?
@@ShiftStormPodcast I'm sure there are other people and organizations that teach these things, but these are only some of the benefits of living the teachings of the LDS church, they are not what make it true. It is true, because it was restored by God to Joseph Smith. Through him, the priesthood and doctrines of God were restored, that one needs to learn and live true principles here in this life, and be able to return to the presence of God in the next life with the ability to gain all that the father has.
4:42 Interesting how the emotion of his story changed drastically when the host commented, "this sounds like you're speaking pretty positively about this."
Boo for you. Facts aren't in your corner.
Book of mormon is true
@@standardworks what are the key facts that convince you of its truth?
There's no facts.
Again, some left THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER DAY SAINTS, due to wickedness, ignorance, refused to repent.
@@VAATAUSILI4139 you don’t think anyone could possibly ever have any valid concerns with discussing or questioning?
47:32 If that was the case, it may be that they understand that having a strong faith foundation (especially in the gospel) is the best way to strengthen a marriage.
You cant prove the church not true
@@user-ux3vb5zg1p sincere question: is that because you don’t believe there is any evidence to prove it untrue, or is it because no evidence would be enough to convince you?
Yes you can
50:53 perfect example of what happens when you choose to follow popular culture over what God wants for you.
I am 50-year member of the Church who is certain that it is true. Don't fall prey to Satan's lies and half-truths - it you do, you'll eventually learn that you were led astray. Hold to the rod!
Thanks for sharing! What is it for you that confirms that the Church is true?
Sorry to hear that. I suggest looking into Christ's original church. Best example is Armenian apostolic church. Instill it in your ward. You'll be happier. I testify of this, in the name of Jesus Christ.
Elitism masquerading as Christianity.
It saddens me that we live in a wicked world & our Testimonies are being attacked. It’s easier said than done to hold on to that Rod & I let go when I was 16.
I never had my own Testimony & hated my parents for brainwashing me. If there is a God & this is His Church I want God to manifest it unto me, no one can convince me otherwise.
I was having problems in life & ended up in the Metal Hospital several times. I was diagnosed with severe depression & violent behavior.
20yrs after leaving the Church I had a life changing event. I was so full of hate & about ended someone’s life. I hated how I felt & if there was a God I needed Him now. I took a dusty Book of Mormon off the shelf & got on my knees. I was blaming God how I felt & wanted it removed. When I opened my eyes & there before me the BoM was opened. 3rd Nephi 11:29-30 was highlighted.
29 For verily, verily I say unto you, he that hath the spirit of contention is not of me, but is of the devil, who is the father of contention, and he stirreth up the hearts of men to contend with anger, one with another.
30 Behold, this is not my doctrine, to stir up the hearts of men with anger, one against another; but this is my doctrine, that such things should be done away.
It was as if the Lord was speaking to me & when I read the last word away I felt the hand of the Lord removing all that hatred from me. I started that hatred when I was 3 when Dad would get upset with me teaching me colors, found out I’m colorblind.
I went back to Church working on receiving the priesthood & blessings from the Temple. It wasn’t until I was in group therapy seeing myself in others shoes that I prayed for the right help. Then a thought came to mind that I needed to get off depression medications. I was assigned to a new Psychologist & I told him I feel I didn’t need to take meds anymore. He lectured me to not get off & I would have a mental breakdown if I did. I told him what he was saying was going through one ear & out the other. If he didn’t believe me then the Bishop should but I was wrong. The Bishop lectured me why we have Dr’s & I should listen to them but I kept feeling to get off meds. I prayed & fasted about it to know I should get off. With the Lord’s help I took myself off & didn’t have problems. I went back to see the Psychologist again & that new one I seen was gone. I seen my old one & I told him I took myself off. He asked how I was doing being off of meds & I told him much better. I didn’t see him anymore & I stopped seeing a Therapist. The Therapists would confuse me & they couldn’t teach me Gospel Principles that I understood easier. When I have I problem I pray about it, read Scriptures & I start writing what ever comes to mind. I’m amazed what the Holy Ghost teaches me & it’s like giving a talk in Church but for me.
I found out that I’m allergic to most meds that made me violent & I was Spiritually sick. I tell others, “The Lord is my Therapist & His Gospel are my meds.”
I gave a talk in Church & mentioned all this but when I got done the Bishop got up told everyone to listen to their Dr’s. I did mention to pray for the right help & listen to the Lord.
I thought about leaving the Church & I was preparing to go to the Temple around the same time but the adversary got in the way sending this girl into my life. The Holy Ghost warned me about her & I didn’t listen. We started to take couples counseling & the Therapist was a Bishop. He deceived me & told use to commit a lesser sin but to me a sin is a sin no matter how great or small.
I ended up being incarcerated & before sentencing I prayed to not go to prison. I made a promise to the Lord if I was spared I would always follow him. I had a thought come to mind that I would be saved & that was wishful thinking. I faced the Judge, he lowered his head & the Lord changed his heart. The Judge said I should be going to prison but for some reason he couldn’t get himself to do it. The Lord had mercy on me & others witnessed the Love the Lord has for me.
I was even disfellowshipped & it was scary not having the gift of the Holy Ghost anymore. I was being attacked by the adversary & others wanted me back on meds. I told them I needed my blessings back & I prayed to get them back. In the handbook of instructions it says I needed to be off of probation first before being reinstated. The Lord hide that part from the Bishop & I had to plead my case with the Stake High Council. Then I had to write to the first presidency of the church, who prayed in my behalf getting confirmation from the Lord that I needed to be reinstated, it literally saved my life from fighting demons. I was possessed & the Bishop casted out that demon from me. He was skeptical at first & it kept coming to him that he needed to banish that demon from me. He did & it gave me peace until I could be reinstated.
Church leaders are not perfect & I learned to not listen to them. I do not follow the Prophet unless the Lord manifests it to me what the Prophet is saying is true. I was called to see the Bishop the other day & he said they prayed when my name came up for a calling to be in charge of cleaning the Church. How can I do that when I have a bad back & it’s hard for me to get around. The Bishop told me I just had to assign people & let them in the building but I still couldn’t. He said to not worry about it & I told him I won’t because the Holy Ghost didn’t confirm it to me. Most of the time I already know the calling before I’m asked or before I’m asked to give a talk. There’s things in the Church I don’t agree with but I go for my own salvation. I do pray for the Church to get revelation from God because I’m affraid wicked me are in the Church changing the Lord’s ways.
I did make it to the Temple before being incarcerated & I got to go again when my blessings were restored but one time I hated it & wasn’t going back again. There was an instruction in the Temple that bothered me, how come this is being allowed in His House. Do I talk to the Bishop or Stske President about it. I took my concerns to the Lord & a month later I heard there were adjustments in the Temple. I went back & those things that bothered me was removed.
I’ve had many more experiences when I follow the Lord. I tell others to only listen to the Lord & be careful of the adversary who can deceive you. Sometimes it’s good to leave the Church for a time to gain a Testimony.
I know the BoM is true & confirm it with this testimony in the name of Jesus Christ, Amen
If along the course of learning and believing that the Church is true, you begin to tell yourself that you know that that which you believe and have been taught is true without actually ever having known it, then you are lying to yourself. But that doesn't make the Church untrue or a lie. It just means you never had an actual testimony that God lives and the Church is his. Believing and knowing are two different things. As a convert from a secular life, I can tell you that I know that God lives and the Church is true. But that isn't how I was raised or taught. It came suddenly to me in spirit, right out of the blue in answer to my prayer in asking if I could believe the LDS Missionaries. This isn't my belief. It is what I know. But I can only say it, as knowing can't be conveyed. If I say I know that Popeyes makes great chicken. You wouldn't know it if you didn't seek, find, and eat it yourself. Then you would know.
How do you know which testimony is true and which isn’t? He had the “burning in the heart” type of confirmation, among other things. How does one know the difference?
@@ShiftStormPodcast "Burning in the heart" isn't a confirmation. It is evidence that something is worthy of exploration. A testimony that God lives and the Church is his isn't an extrapolation of belief. It is a declaration of truth. Either God lives or he doesn't. Either the Church is his or it isn't. It isn't a matter of reasoning, concluding, or echoing ones upbringing. Neither is it a matter of academics. It can only come by the intercession of Gods holy spirit, which awakens one to a remembrance of him, to know that he lives and is divine. And to know that true life is in him rather than in ones own self or life. It is my experience that that same spirit showed me in vision that the LDS Missionaries are his servants and that the Church in its entirety is his. The faults levied against the Church are irrelevant. One could levy as much against Judaism, the Bible, Christianity, or even against our own selves, family, friends or anyone. Such criticisms are all antichrist.
I'm actually looking to hear from converts to LDS who weren't raised in it. Would you be open to that?
Who are you to say others didn’t have a testimony? How dare you. Born & raised in $1TRILLION Mormon cult led by Q15 UT CON MEN for over 50+ yrs seeking $200k tithing refund, as our money was hoarded in $180 Billion stock market Ensign Peaks accts & used to buy real property, making it 2nd largest landowner in the nation!! Instead of giving it charitably, as we gave it. It should have been used to bless the hungry homeless diseased & dying. So much Blood on the hands of UT Mormon Q15 leadership! Jesus weeps at Mormon lack of generosity & charity!!
Where is my comment? Why are most replies yours?! Censored, yes?! How dare commentor question others’ testimony & how dare you censor comments. What BS.
Josh Rolph, perfectly reveal his extreme ignorance & rebelliousness. He left THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST, refused to repent.
Some comes up with their podcast against, THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER DAY SAINTS, wickedly, for their personal gains.
This story and most of the comments are so sad. I always hate to see people led away from the true church. I am blessed every day and thankful for the church in my life. There is nothing better out there that will lead to understanding of life and true happiness both now and forever. I have been a member of the LDS church for 60 years and will be one for eternity. It is the true and living church of God on the earth!
Have you read the CES letter? Most members of the church who have not read that letter think it’s sad when people leave. After you read it, you may have a different perspective. I was a strict member years ago. I started to notice things wrong with the church and discrepancies, thanks to the Gospel Topics Essays, found in Gospel Library. Then I read the CES letter and it all made sense. You won’t feel sorry anymore after you read the letter. Don’t be afraid to allow yourself to follow truth wherever it may come from. Read the CES letter and then pray about the questions he asks. Pray to find truth like you prayed about the BOM
@todd212010 I have read it. And I am still strong in the faith. Most of the "problems " that were brought up in that letter have been resolved to my satisfaction and the few that haven't, for now I can live with. I am not perfect, and I know that others are not perfect either, and I am ok with that. What the gospel teaches in the LDS church, though, is true and beautiful, and give it up? Like Peter said "to whom shall we go? Thou hast the words of eternal life" (John 6:67-68)
11:05 That's not doctrine and he knows it. That's like item number 1 on the anti-LDS top hits referring to a discourse where Brigham Young extrapolated in some pretty extreme ways. This is neither taught nor considered doctrine.
Hmmm that's interesting. I had always thought it was a well-known doctrine. What's your take on this explanation: www.mormonwiki.com/As_Man_Now_Is,_God_Once_Was
Grew up in the church - this is absolutely core doctrine
You must be living under a rock. That is absolutely what I was taught my entire life
@@jonathanduran8669 interesting that there seems to be a gap in your experiences with this doctrine vs others of the LDS faith. Any thoughts on why?
It is definitely what I was taught growing up in the church. The part about planets was inferred, not explicit, but the idea that God was once like you and me was and still is doctrine. Here's an excerpt I pulled from the church's website today, in a lesson about the a revelation to the prophet Lorenzo Snow.
"I formed the following couplet which expresses the revelation, as it was shown me. … 'As man now is, God once was: 'As God now is, man may be.' Feeling that he had received 'a sacred communication' that he should guard carefully, Lorenzo Snow did not teach the doctrine publicly until he knew that the Prophet Joseph Smith had taught it. Once he knew the doctrine was public knowledge, he testified of it frequently."
Two reasons why, some leave THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER DAY SAINTS, ignorance & rebelliousness.
@@VAATAUSILI4139 what is it that you think they might be ignorant of?
@@ShiftStormPodcast I've came across, some people like you before, even when i told them the truth about the fullness and the truthfulness of, THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER DAY SAINTS, from the Bible, they still refused to accept it. So, I'm not wasting my time telling you anything. JESUS CHRIST warned members of HIS CHURCH, not to give pearls, to swines.
@VAATAUSILI4139 can you at least tells us where specifically the Book of Mormon took place? The location of millions of people isn’t faith based right
@@VAATAUSILI4139 do you believe there is a place for reasonable discussion about facts and evidence and logic regarding your religion, or is writing me off before you’ve had a chance to know me really all you have space for?
@@ShiftStormPodcast As I've repeatedly said before, I'm not wasting my time, sharing the fullness and the truthfulness of, THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER DAY SAINTS, with some people, I've explained all and everything about THE fullness and the truthfulness of, THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER DAY SAINTS, from the Bible, they still go circles. So, you need to counsel, with our HEAVENLY PARENT'S.
Ive been in the church 60 yrs and i know without a doubt that the church is true and so does 17 miillion more people
Thanks for sharing! What confirms for you that your church is true?
Of those 17 million only about 5 million actually believe and attend meetings. The 17 million are only names on record.
Then why do you post on RUclips?
@@richarner3856 sorry was this question for me?
@ShiftStormPodcast no..I am not sure why RUclips randomly places replies?
American people have their rights to voice their opinions though I may not agree with the protest. Trump did not have the intention of provoking violence.
@@GODISMYSTERIOUS bruh why are you saying this here
Yeah and he didn't sit for 6 hours watching it on tv...
you are crazy if you think trump wasn't encouraging his mob to commit violence
The [GOSPEL] is true and the Church the mechanism through which God's authority is administered. That's the way it has always been. Your fundamental premise/selling-point is wrong.
Latter Day Saint scripture have never been proven as fraudulent works. Especially since Paul Gregersen debunked the arrogant Egyptologist opinions against Joseph Smith.
Keep fighting valiant warrior of dumbassery!
He debunked nothing ...he's a pseudo intellectual with more biases than you can shake a stick at. Amazing that you are so desperate to believe him
@@richarner3856Google Egyptologists back Smith Paul Gregersen you tube. I'll bet you can't debunk the video.
@@richarner3856How could you possibly not believe Paul Gregersen?
@@RichardHolmes-ll8ii hilarious 😂