The Weirdest Wing Design On a Plane I've Seen... But Does it Work?
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- Опубликовано: 4 сен 2024
- Welcome to another episode of Trailmakers! Today I am recreating the Messerschmitt Me-P-1109 Scissorwing Plane. This strange design never left the drawing board. It was intended to be able to swivel the wings from a normal position, to a 60 degree, scissor-like position. The idea was that the angle would reduce drag on the wing's edge to increase the speed of the plane. But will it work in Trailmakers?
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About Trailmakers:
In the toughest motoring expedition in the universe, you and your friends will build your own vehicles to cross a dangerous wasteland. Explore, crash horribly, use your wits to build a better rig, and get as far as you can with whatever spare parts you find on your way.
Welcome to the Ultimate Expedition!
Journey over grueling mountains, hazardous swamps, and bone-dry deserts on a distant world far from civilization - it is just you, your fellow adventurers and the amazing, jet-powered hover-buggy you built yourself. Explore, crash your vehicle, build a better one, and get as far as you can with whatever spare parts you find along your way.
Trailmakers is about building very awesome vehicles and machines, but you don’t need an engineering degree to get started. The intuitive builder will get you going in no time. Everything you build is made from physical building blocks. Each block has unique features like shape, weight and functionality. They can be broken off, refitted and used to build something new. Individually the blocks are fairly simple, but combined the possibilities are endless.
Expedition Mode is the challenging campaign mode of Trailmakers. You are competing in an off-world rally expedition with only a few building blocks to get you started. You must build, tinker with and rebuild your machine to progress. Journey through a big world, overcome deep gorges, angry wildlife and dangerous weather to progress and find new parts that will juice up your machine. The world in Expedition Mode will test your survival skills and ingenuity.
Sandbox Mode is where you want to head for an unrestricted, sandbox, vehicle-building experience. Here you can build anything you can dream of, and play around with it in the world of Trailmakers. It is a great place to test out crazy machines, and experiment with the physics engine. With tons of different blocks, hinges, thrusters and interactive vehicle parts - the skybox is the limit.
Trailmakers is even more fun if you play it with other people. Build cool vehicles and compete in mini-game modes with your friends or other Trailmakers online. Build a helicopter, send it to your friend, and shoot them out of the sky. Put two seats on a tank, and let your friend control the turret. As we get further in Early Access development Expedition Mode will also be adapted to multiplayer.
Learn more about the game on www.playtrailma... #scrapman #trailmakers
15:50 fun fact: when jets land on a aircraft carrier, they go full throttle while landing! They get stopped by a very strong (but flexible) rope. They need to do that in case the rope breaks or something else happens, so that they can take off again, due to the engines having a small delay between input and output. They get launched off the runway when taking off from a standstill using a gigantic long steam piston that pulls the aircraft along the whole runway to accelerate. You need to do all of this, because the runway is so short. This is also why VTOLs are so useful.
Ya, but VTOLS still have massive disadvantages in comparison to catapult launch, largest of which being far less maximum payload.
Which is why even planes capable of VTO sometimes instead do STO from carriers, so they can be carrying more fuel or munitions when they take off.
@@Nevir202 VTOLs basicaly need to take off like a rocket so it will need to be able to lift all that weight vertically so they can't lift that much cargo (when taking of vertically) but the advantages in certain situations (such as when landing) pay off tho
@@nathanielsantana403 but VTOLs also need to be very precise when landing, one wrong move and **flip**
@@apersunthathasaridiculousl1890 I’ve made a harrier based vtol in kerbal space program and it’s fairly easy to land
Also i bet that an actual harrier has the hardware to automatically stabilize you before you flip over
@@NSG-kc6zl i bet, but still, if those smol little thruster things (the part that makes it a VTOL) can land that heavy jet, i assume its producing a lot of thrust, so if they go diagonal just a bit, wouldn’t it push the jet forward? a lot
Variable sweep wings have actually been used a couple of times (the one with the two seperate wings that go back instead of 1 giant wing turning), the most famous use was in the f14 tomcat, I would love to see you build something similar.
He won’t. It worked too well irl
Yeah, I would love that too, but the only problem is that it looks/feels too realistic
I do wanna see a folder like that. I loved the tomcat
@@Necromorph790 what about the su 24. There is a lot more then a f 14
@@algajalf is that Russian? Tbh I don’t know much about modern aircrafts. Mainly ww2 stuff and tanks
hi scrapman! about your comment at around 2:30, having two wing one either side that folds forward or back (like many modern planes), though it does solve a lot of problems like control surfaces having uneven air flow over them, it cause a major issue: structure. having a wing which lifts up a heavy body only connect to the body at a single point cause that single point to require large amounts of reinforcements and the folding system will need to be extremely complicated in order to ensure both side are rotated to the same angle, which is impractical at that time. to reduce complexity, cost, construction time, required construction quality and weight, the scissor wing design was born.
Yep! Grumman had to develop a special machining process for the titanium wing boxes in order to make sure that the Tomcat's wings wouldn't snap off during maneuvers.
My only real guess for why it doesn't have landing gear would be it using a "launch sled" similar to the Me-163 rocket plane
Iit had a landing gear, but it was retractable, the whole idea was to reduce drag, it would be very very stupid to let the landing gear stick out (if you spend more than 5 seconds looking for a picture, you will find one with the landing gear)
@@verrueckteriwan I am aware it has a landing skid, I'm using the detachable wheel section just as an example, since it's one of the more well known aircraft with that type of feature
jet go brm brrm!
Hey Scrapman, I think you may have forgotten to switch your spedometer back from miles per hour. Thanks as always!
Americans be like: :/
He done that because its a real vehicle and it being in KPH, it wouldn't be as accurate to MPH this vehicle was made to be used.
Loved it when you brought up the modern jet angled wing thing. I was thinking the same. I was also thinking about jets that pull back their wings for faster travel after liftoff.
Yeah! Like the Tomcat
Swing wings are just one of these super cool concepts that have sadly become obsolete.
@@Thatoneguy0007 YUP! That is actually the exact toy model jet I was thinking about when I was a kid (ones you have to assemble yourself). Funny you brought that up too.
@@schw4rztee502 not obsolete just overly complicated the idea was not to reduce drag but to increase the speed at which shockwaves would form on the wings if I remember correctly real engineering did a video about the nasa version of this
@@yeet7660 yep, you’re absolutely on point. Having a shockwave form on your wing can lead to a ton of issues if not properly dealt with it, this is why planes that could reach transonic speeds (from Mach 0.7 to Mach 1.3 more or less) started sweeping back their wings, so that the perpendicular component (the one that should stay subsonic) of the wind would always be smaller (aka slower) that the actual plane speed
5:47 is a perfect Dune (2021) ornithopter recreation.
I also think the 35° and 60° are relative to the body of the plane and not relative to the default orientation of the wings. The default wing orientation would be 90° in that case. But I might be wrong.
edit: Turns out I was wrong. The wings spread out is, in fact, a sweep angle of 0°.
i thought the same so in this case he should have set it to 55°
The wings straight out, in variable-geometry airframes, is considered 0°. The F-14 had a maximum sweep angle of 68°, with a stowage angle on the carrier of 72°.
@@jordananderson2728 Seems kinda counterintuitive as the angle between plane and wing would be 90° at a sweep angle of 0°. But as my knowledge of plane engineering is limited, I do believe you. It wouldn't be the weirdest convention in engineering. Looking at the charge and flow of electrons and the location of the plus and minus poles in electronics here.
@@captainstroon1555 It's done that way because the most basic wing possible is just a straight board. Any sweep from that point is considered to be relative to that straight board, rather than the fuselage.
@@jordananderson2728 I see. It does make sense. Thanks for clearing things up.
@2:36
having two swept wings, one on either side, means the pivot point would have to be stronger, because it would have to cope with not only a lateral force, but a twisting torque moment due to the wing being asymmetic , with the whole wing rotating, the torque of one side getting pushed is cancelled outby the other side
Sweeping the wings also gives you more roll authority at higher speeds, as the air more easily flows over the angled part of the wings.
How the Germans understood wing sweep and variable geometry 20 years before anyone else, i don't know.
Had the best scientists, also invented rockets & jets which were later stolen by the Americans.
Einstein was German to begin with, WW2 Germany was terrible at ethics and philosophy but clearly knew what they were doing when it came to science. Also art design.
@@cetomedo You can't categorize all German people during World war II as the same though.
if any democratic country suddenly got a sadistic dictator for leader, the brilliant scientists and engineers would also be at the mercy of their new leader.
@@RealPanzer999 Hmm, a lot of countries (Mainly Germany and England) independently developed the jet engine, the Americans came in a couple of years later with theirs.
@@socialus5689 I didn't. I'm talking about the Nazi germany, as a country, not as people. There were plenty Germans that resented what they were doing, plenty incompetent scientists not knowing what they were doing, and plenty artists that didn't know how a person gets into art class and not becomes a dictator.
Ok the last group is much smaller than the first two, but the point still stands. The German people can't be universally blamed for what happened, and they can't be universally congradulated on what they engineered.
Obviously there's very little you can do when the country you live in tries to brainwash you 24/7 and has your family hostage by default, then adds a treason charge for not agreeing with them. The minority that were brave and sacrificing enough to speak up at the cost of their lives, were all killed fairly early. (Like the White Rose) The ones with family hostages can't be blamed, and the ones without hostages but valued their life, while definitely not noble, I still can't blame.
I don't resent all Russians because Putin decided to go all dictator and invaded an entire country, I don't resent USA because the CIA funds a f**k ton of terrorists and keeps hidden torture facilities. I resent Russia the country, and its government specifically; I resent CIA, though I guess I don't hate the USA itself that much (but nonetheless it has its problems.) WW2 Germany is much the same, its individual parts aren't genocidal or evil by necessity, and cannot be blamed, but the construct formed from the sum of all parts is a monster.
That's what the Panavia Tornado does: when you need more speed and less drag you reduce flaps, causing the wings to "retract".
Planes like the f-14 use wings that swing forward and back
Basically adjustable swept wings
I absolutely love these videos, in my opinion they're so educational and interesting also I'm pretty sure no one has ever done something like this (correct me if I'm wrong)
14:40, If its a jet they probably have a vectored exhaust vent that provides a trim affect for the axis rotation of the wing. if its a prop aircraft, utilizing a slight off set to take advantage of P-factor of the prop, and a LARGE rudder with gross and fine control. Thats how i would see it being flown IRL.
You can't see any engines on that one, but it could be a jet exhaust hidden under the tail.
You can't vector for roll with only one engine.
In any case, this looks like a glider.
Hey scrap man! Been loving your vids recently and I was hoping to give a request. Back in wwII the Germans created a bomber plane that was essentially two ju-88 c bombers stitched together. Although it was produced if failed shortly after
4:28 I love the realization that the model had no landing gear
That's probably why it didn't make it past the drawing stage lol
This was one of the most interesting videos of this recreation series. It so weird, but it works so well.
The real life, version of the one winged one (I forgot the name of it) had a constant yaw that had to be countered with the rudder
yeah i saw it on a vid
ScrapMan: Goes to build scissorwing. The Game: Best I can do is a glitchy ornithopter...
scrapman is one day gonna be creating crazy concepts of his own that others will try to recreate
Hi persun
Haven’t been able to see the last few videos in the series for some IRL responsibilities. Sure glad, to be back in my happy space watching the best series on RUclips!
There is one thing, developers of angled arrow looking wings confront the problem of hard takeoff due to center of lift moved to back, when wings were arrow-looking. That's why we actually have
Rockwell B-1 Lancer, Grumman F-14 Tomcat, Panavia Tornado, etc. But that scheme have another problem due to big weight of all mechanisms, high cost, low durability and strength of structure. In tries of solving this problems they actually needed simplest, most stable, and cheapest of salvations. If rotatable wings actually work as intended, they could solve many problems.
the found and explained youtube channel is a goldmine for stuff to make in games like trail makers.
the asymmetrical plane was one of them.
6:00 my man created the first self-driving tokyo drifting airplane... congrats man!
Your recent take to aviation is amazing. i love it.
I think you should do an episode now and again for vehicles that aren't weird enough for their own episode, but that the audience might enjoy a brief 3 minute history lesson on and to see you resurrect. For instance, the Blohm & Voss BV-141 asymmetrical observation aircraft isn't THAT weird. But it's pretty weird for an aircraft that actually entered production and saw service in WWII. If you could do an episode with 3 or so vehicles like that, not weird enough or complicated enough for an entire episode, I think it would be lots of fun. I'm sure you've encountered dozens of designs that were pretty neat, but just not weird enough. You should have a sub-series dedicated to stuff like that where you blast through a few designs in the same video and just give your comments on the designs and whatnot. Would be super cool.
Once a little while ago I made a plane that's role controls worked by angling one wing back, like modern planes do for extra speed, and the other angled back word. For example to role left the left wing would angle back,30 degrees, and the right angles forward, again by 30 degrees, funally enough it is one of the best planes I've made, very controllable.
The big reason why you would sweep wings in alternating directions instead of wings on each side separately is torque. The left wing and right wing both want to roll the airplane, but in different directions. If the whole wing is a single piece, the torque offsets and the swing mechanism can be made much simpler and lighter.
The NASA AD-1 found it helped with efficiency (less overall drag), but gave a number of unpleasant flying characteristics at high sweep angles. Fly by Wire and avionics could probably help that, but in World War II the best option would have been this plane: Have two wings, which sweep in opposite directions, in order to offset the unwanted effects, albeit at the cost of doubling induced wingtip drag.
You can make the hinges more compact by putting them vertically and using two flat connectors to connect to the top of one wing and the bottom of another
Your chanel has changed from multiplayer monday
To
History class.
👍
It may be mentioned later in the video but the F-14 Tomcat has the same principle, when it goes fast enough the wings fold back
instant like, happy you do some stuff back at Trailmakers
Dude the way he says that idk why I laugh when he says "how is that happened" I'm so weak
It kind of blew my mind that this actually functioned in trailmakers. Pretty cool.
Messerschmitt me p 1102 consept was used for the tomcat fighter jet if the wing is in the original position it can fly in low speeds without a issue but in a folded position it can go supersonic
4:15 scrapman being a child for 15 seconds. It's great.
This must be the inspiration of the variable wing design in b1 b lancer, f14 tomcat and tupelev tu 160 aircraft
Maybe next time some tank action with waffenträger? Like any of several designs from that family would be fun to see in action.
I was about to ask what you were doing up so late but then I realized I've been up all night.
The Grumman F-14 Tomcat was an actual fighter jet that used a similar concept to the 1102 (the logical design you didn’t use lol)
That thing would be plagued by absolutely uncontrollable roll lmfao
The problem with each wings pivoting from one side is you need a strong mechanism to move and hold the wings so they dont break wich add weight, so rotating the wing from the center as one piece reduce the stress on the mechanism, but also introduce other problem, thats why they built the AD-1 to experiment with the concept
Prebuilds of the F14 Tomcat.
I think the game simplyfies drag through frontal area, reduce frontal area, reduce drag.
There is an asymmetrical plane. I don't know what was the name but I think I saw it on Scott Manley's channel. He did it as a challenge. Challenge was he has to use every part only once. No mirroring. One quick Google search shows that asymmetrical planes are quite a thing. I would love to see you try
You should do a challenge like so you have different levels: Lightweight, Heavyweight, Very Heavyweight. And you build a vehicle (no thrusters) to try and pull them, Lightweight is worth 1 point, and it carries on with 1 increasing point per weight difference.
Normal rules, 2 power core increase, ect.
First one to 25 points wins! Good luck.
Oh, a tractor pulling challenge? Yeah, that could work.
Multiplayer Monday idea?!?! 👀👀
im kinda blown away by how good this works and it working in the first place.. i couldnt imagine this would really work.. looks totally off anyway.. xD
I have a suggestion for you Scrapman, but it's not a recreation though:
>>> What is the smallest plane you can build in trailmakers?
Obviously to be a plane, your lift has to come from wings, not gimbal jets or vertically oriented mini thrusters.
To make it even more interesting, I'd say "smallest size" is measured as length + width + height (not part count or weight or something), which may require you to stack your wings in unexpected ways.
Ooh, I wanna make a version of this. Thanks for the inspiration, as per usual!
Brings a whole new meaning to X-wing...
the "easeast change you have ever done" is a wing design that uses the wing rotation for the roll control. it's meant to spin both ways.
I can't remember. Did you make the Vought V-173 "Flying Pancake" yet? Because that's definitely something you do.
Scrapman, the problem with the variable swept wings is that the center of lift would actually change so much, you’ll need to balance it out with flaps or something that increases lift in front. This is the problem with the F-14 Tomcat. Also Scrapman stop pushing the plane down if it bounces, that’s bad.
6:00 You made a beautiful dragonfly. 10/10
2:29 Scrapman unknowingly describing the Tomcat?
This is my favourite series!
You should try and make a Cyclocopter
(Or can't you)
X2, i tink the same
...
That si a great idea, but may be dificult for the programing tings.
The front landing gear and nose reminded me a bit of the A-10.
The idea with have one large wing that swivels rather than 2 was to cut down on moving parts and be able to make the joint stronger than they could with two.
The angled wing made it unstable though.
I'm convinced that there is drag in Trailmakers. When I was making my drag car I tried replacing all the standard blocks with the, I think they're called grid blocks. It weighed less but was a few hundredths slower.
Y'wanna verify that there's drag in Trailmakers, make a car that holds up a big sail, pretty much a dinner plate. Use a servo to swap it between parallel and perpendicular with forward, and the one where it's perpendicular should be slower because it's a lot more surface area against the wind, even though the center of mass and everything is the same.
definitely laughed the most in this episode so far XD
Trailmakers recreation video idea: Make the plane that made the first flight over the English Channel, it really seems feasible in Trailmakers.
Hey Scrapman, u should bring back the evolution races.
Heh, you would think two symmetrical swing-wings is easier, but actually... it very much is not. Structurally, those are _much_ more complex. That translates to a lot of weight, which is somewhat disadvantageous for military aircraft, but a total non-starter for commercial planes.
Aerodynamically, the single rotating wing (or twin scissoring wings) are much more complex, but structurally they can be far lighter and thus much more efficient. Since commercial planes live and die on single percentage points of fuel efficiency, that's a huge advantage.
You should have tested 90⁰ angel. Maybe do that as an intro to your next video?
9:28 "We don't actually have air particles hitting the wings."
Man I don't know, Trailmakers seems to simulate this pretty well anyway. I've built planes that have ZERO wing parts that are still flyable, (the entire wing is built of aerodynamic parts and then programmed as a control surface with rotors.) They don't *love* to fly, and don't produce a ton of lift, so you mostly need to have a greater than 1:1 thrust to weight ratio, but the game seemingly dynamically calculates air resistance on the faces of all surfaces, so you can get the full range of normal airplane attitude controls.
"Why build this complicated plane?"
"Why not"
I love your recreations keep them up
Love the fact that scrapman has been re creating things that we never got to see
i wonder if you made a biplane that has both its bottom wings sweep forward and its top wings sweep back, you could get the same results without the roll. though on a proper propeller plane that biased roll could be helpful in combatting the torque from the rotating prop.
I think it would be cool to see either mk1 heavy or bob semple tank
This experiment would probably get more realistic results in Kerbal Space Program (however, the Breaking Ground DLC is needed for the wings to rotate)
Finishes the build and it immediately looks like a dragonfly on crack. 😂
The Me-P-1102 reminds me of the good old F-14 Tomcat. Which would be pretty cool to see Scrapman build in this game lol
LOL you made the Messerschmitt Me-P-1110 Flappybird.
If only main assembly didnt take so long to make stuff, the crazy applications would be insane
It might not seem like it, but this could be the most practical failed historical design he's tried.
The main advantage it has over a normal looking variable-sweep winged plane is that when you make both wings rotate separately you have to build two joints instead of one, and they have to be strong enough to keep the wings from bending upwards and tearing off the plane. That means you're not turning one heavy joint into two lighter ones, you're turning one simple, cheap, relatively light joint into two heavy, complicated, expensive, difficult to maintain ones. The thing is - the only aircraft that have good reason for moving wings are advanced military aircraft. They're already stupid expensive and complicated, so while it would be nice to save money where you can, they HAVE to be the best for maneuvering in combat, and this wasn't bad, but it wasn't the best.
It did have some other advantages, like reducing multiple types of drag, and the disadvantages are probably not what you think, so if you're curious Real Engineering did a great video on this (not the scissor-wing one, the single wing one that actually got made and flown by NASA) that explains the details really well.
Link: ruclips.net/video/SpiMXHgItHg/видео.html
Have you considered going back to Roboco? Kan recently made a car in it and it seems that game handles complex mechanical parts a lot better than most of these other builder games. I'm not sure if it has air resistance or flight mechanics, but it would definitely work well for some walkers.
Instruments of destruction idea: Rail minigun, do I need to say more
The one wing version looks like a mall ninja with the sword on the back.
Here's a suggestion: make a Lippisch p13a - a true WWII Wedge Gang plane
Would a compromise of the angles of the dual wing design of 45° make any difference in performance?
these re creation videos are so great because i find out what dumb stuff people tried to make in the name of innovation
You should build a mark 8 tank
I have an idea I think you should try to recreate the German Windkanone it seems like a fun challenge to try out
6:25 "Why you do Dat? Dont do dat"
I'm currently watching this video at 4 am cuz I can't sleep, I have school in 4 hrs
F14 tomcat Is similar to what you're talking about with the wings both bending at the same angle
IRL the forward sweep of the front of the wing will cause the plane to become unstable in super-sonic flight.
I'm currently at 3:30 I really don't see this going well all I see is a very fast corkscrew
Edit: I was surprised to see that it was actually fairly controllable
I would assume that if there is a mechanism to shift weight in the plane you could balance the roll out
I think this would be an interesting build in Kerbal Space Program.
I did this in Simplerocket2 before and it actually worked. no need to lower wings.
Can u try make a glitch powered air craft
12:14 i think that the roling is caist by the wings being rotated and guiding the air to one side and the oposite side on the bottom and then causing the roling.
and the les roling on 60 degres is because less air is moving to the side because of the more strait wing
2:24 it was an engineering issue. The one ring folding was more affordable are easier to use. The white one below the diagram is a real plane they used to test the idea.
You should check out a cartoon called Dinotrux they would be ported into Instruments of Distruction so well.
I wonder what would happen if you were to have the tail wings have trim that automatically activates when you rotate the front wings?
You should build the xp-55 boomerang or the a-10 warthog
I would love to see if breaking off the wingtips would have the same effect or if it really is the tilt not just converting lift to forward motion
Reads about landing gear and looks at the picture...... instantly forgets.