A very interesting differential equation.

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  • Опубликовано: 24 ноя 2024

Комментарии • 1,3 тыс.

  • @antonystark9240
    @antonystark9240 4 года назад +4658

    "The only good way to solve a differential equation is to know the answer already." --- Richard Feynman

    • @AndyZach
      @AndyZach 4 года назад +143

      As always with his aphorisms, he's right.

    • @jayyoung9766
      @jayyoung9766 4 года назад +8

      Antony Stark excellent point

    • @Hecatonicosachoron
      @Hecatonicosachoron 4 года назад +24

      Well, the easiest way, certainly

    • @joda7697
      @joda7697 4 года назад +97

      And you would be amazed at
      how useful that statement is,
      despite seeming so trivial.

    • @dheerajsharma355
      @dheerajsharma355 4 года назад +2

      Absolutely correct!!

  • @carlosdanielvelazquezflore6512
    @carlosdanielvelazquezflore6512 4 года назад +6792

    I wonder how many integrals I need to do until my arms get that big

  • @Darkstar2342
    @Darkstar2342 4 года назад +234

    I would have done just a "coefficient comparison" at the step where you have rAx^(r-1) = (1/A)^(1/r)x^(1/r). Because for these two polynomials to be equal (for all x), the factors in front of the x as well as the power of x have to be equal at the same time. So you immediately get r-1 = 1/r and rA = (1/A)^(1/r), solve the first for r and use it in the second to get A. No need to shuffle constants and x's left/right.

    • @rubberduck2078
      @rubberduck2078 2 года назад +11

      These are not polynomials but yeah

    • @hamburgerin6593
      @hamburgerin6593 2 года назад +5

      @@rubberduck2078 but why wouldnt they be polynomial? They have const coefficients and x to the power of a const, isnt that the definition of a polynomial? Or does the exp have to be a whole number in order for it to be considered a polynomial?

    • @rodrigolind5665
      @rodrigolind5665 2 года назад +4

      yeah but thats the same argument as the one used in the video. The extra step is just a matter of taste...

    • @LachezarTsakov
      @LachezarTsakov Год назад

      Exactly my thinking !

  • @aienbalosaienbalos4186
    @aienbalosaienbalos4186 4 года назад +703

    I have only seen two videos. But it seems like these videos have a really, really good level of both rigor and just that general hunger/curiosity for finding knowledge, not because it’s useful or for the knowledge, but for the pursuit itself.
    Which makes this channel unique as far as I know. It has the same joyful take on problems as 3b1b, that is not “Here is problem. Here is solution. Here is proof”.
    The process of finding the solution is the main point of the video, not the solution itself. And while 3b1b is clearly superior in the production quality (in which it is the absolute best), they usually leave out the mathematical rigor.
    Other sources that do have the mathematical rigor, like differential equation textbooks, at least the few I’ve read, I may have been unlucky, tend to be so incredibly dull and uninterested in the topic, perhaps in favor of brevity and efficiency?, and pay little importance to how the problems were solved, focusing only on presenting solutions to equations and proofs. At least me personally, I find mathematics textbooks to care little for how much “sense” a proof makes, or how natural a reasoning it is, only that it is technically correct.
    Of course these might all be consequences of my non-mathematician brain.
    Or perhaps the problems were first solved not with mathematical rigor, but with some sort of intuition, that only later was rigorously proven with some technical ungodly proof.
    Furthermore, as an engineering student I am all too tired of having to learn “true” things, that are very powerful and useful, without having the time or expertise to know how we know they are true. I tend to give them a crack, but usually I find I am not prepared and don’t have the time to completely understand/prove, so just end up figuring out intuitions, for which 3b1b helps a lot.
    It’s very refreshing to just wonder about things, and not have to worry about their usefulness.
    For all these reasons, I am glad to have found this channel.
    Thanks for sharing these.

    • @gregoryG540
      @gregoryG540 4 года назад +4

      I was going to comment check out 3b1b loll

    • @shoam2103
      @shoam2103 4 года назад +4

      What about mathologer?

    • @shoam2103
      @shoam2103 4 года назад +5

      > Or perhaps the problems were first solved not with mathematical rigor, but with some sort of intuition
      This is true in a large majority of cases. There's also lucky accidents, proof by exhaustion, and so many other ways.
      Also, explaining intuition to someone else with enough brevity and clarity is no easy task.

    • @badhbhchadh
      @badhbhchadh 4 года назад

      Dr. Peyam also does some stuff like this.

    • @aienbalosaienbalos4186
      @aienbalosaienbalos4186 4 года назад

      Al Rats no, I have not.

  • @diegoparodi3854
    @diegoparodi3854 4 года назад +783

    Completely random equation: exists
    Phi: let us introduce ourselves

    • @branthebrave
      @branthebrave 4 года назад +18

      Nah it makes sense that it'd be in there. Right when you see 1/r from inverse and r-1 from derivative it's familiar if you know how phi's like. (What number is itself plus the inverse of itself?)

    • @ourgoalisto6737
      @ourgoalisto6737 4 года назад +28

      Because e: :( busy with complex girlfriends
      Pi : sorry stuck in circle
      Phi : perfect for me 👍

    • @SP-qi8ur
      @SP-qi8ur 4 года назад

      @@branthebrave What number would that be? How could it be itaelf plus its inverse? I thought adding its inverse would always make a completely different number

  • @Celastrous
    @Celastrous 4 года назад +480

    *Asks some incredibly hard questions*
    "Ok well, this is a good place to stop."

    • @35571113
      @35571113 4 года назад +60

      The goal of a teacher is not just to enable a student to think on their own, but to make them unable to stop thinking.
      And then, that's exactly the right place to stop teaching.

    • @dananajj
      @dananajj 4 года назад

      Lol 🤣

    • @mateussouza3979
      @mateussouza3979 4 года назад +7

      I’m incredibly curious about f’(x) = f^n(x) now.

    • @dheerajsharma355
      @dheerajsharma355 4 года назад +2

      @@mateussouza3979 you made me curious too😂

    • @shmojelfed9664
      @shmojelfed9664 4 года назад +4

      Left as an exercise to the viewer :(

  • @Eichro
    @Eichro 4 года назад +1220

    "Educated guesses and checking them is how a lot of pure research-level mathematics is done"
    I wish my teachers were in this room to hear this

    • @ultraollie
      @ultraollie 4 года назад +158

      Emphasis on "educated guess"

    • @p-aluneau5136
      @p-aluneau5136 4 года назад +222

      Like "PhD educated" guesses

    • @turtlellamacow
      @turtlellamacow 4 года назад +188

      And I'm sure they wouldn't deny it. You're not doing research in the classroom, you're learning basic, well-established mathematics - there is little need for guesswork

    • @donporter1247
      @donporter1247 4 года назад +72

      Accessible RUclips video: "guess and check".
      Professional research paper: "ansatz"

    • @oguzcanoguz5977
      @oguzcanoguz5977 4 года назад +82

      It is actually a very deep statement. In the 1900's, there was a great debate in the matetatics community. There were 2 main sides, one represented by Pointcare and the other by Hilbert. The former defended that matematics required some kind of intuition by the matematicians side, while the latter defended that with methods and enough time spent they could map out the entire matematics. The side of Hilbert was winning, until Gödel came out and proved that not everything in matematics could be proven. So we are now left with the Pointcare side of the story.

  • @titusng2483
    @titusng2483 3 года назад +296

    Her: He must be thinking about another woman
    Him: What function's derivative is same as its inverse?

    • @ernestmoney7252
      @ernestmoney7252 3 года назад +7

      Contrary to what many women believe, it's fairly easy to develop along-term, stable, intimate, and mutually fulfilling relationship with a guy. Of course this guy has to be a Labrador retriever. With human guys, it's extremely difficult. This is because guys don't really grasp what women mean by the term relationship.
      Let's say a guy named Roger is attracted to a woman named Elaine. He asks her out to a movie; she accepts; they have a pretty good time. A few nights later he asks her out to dinner, and again they enjoy themselves. They continue to see each other regularly, and after a while neither one of them is seeing anybody else.
      And then, one evening when they're driving home, a thought occurs to Elaine, and, without really thinking, she says it aloud: "Do you realize that, as of tonight, we've been seeing each other for exactly six months?"
      And then there is silence in the car. To Elaine, it seems like a very loud silence. She thinks to herself: Geez, I wonder if it bothers him that I said that. Maybe he's been feeling confined by our relationship; maybe he thinks I'm trying to push him into some kind of obligation that he doesn't want, or isn't sure of.
      And Roger is thinking: Gosh. Six months.
      And Elaine is thinking: But, hey, I'm not so sure I want this kind of relationship, either. Sometimes I wish I had a little more space, so I'd have time to think about whether I really want us to keep going the way we are, moving steadily toward... I mean, where are we going? Are we just going to keep seeing each other at this level of intimacy? Are we heading toward marriage? Toward children? Toward a lifetime together? Am I ready for that level of commitment? Do I really even know this person?
      And Roger is thinking:... so that means it was... let's see...February when we started going out, which was right after I had the car at the dealer's, which means... lemme check the odometer... Whoa! I am way over due for an oil change here.
      Dave Barry

    • @srijanbhowmick9570
      @srijanbhowmick9570 3 года назад +5

      @@ernestmoney7252 Why did you write all of this ?! 😂

    • @ernestmoney7252
      @ernestmoney7252 3 года назад +3

      @@srijanbhowmick9570
      Hey Srijan
      Here is an IQ test for you: why does the name "Dave Barry" (not my name) appear at the bottom of my post?

    • @Isitshiyagalombili
      @Isitshiyagalombili 3 года назад +8

      @@ernestmoney7252 Right after thinking, "I am way over due for an oil change here", he thought, "Dave Barry". Then he thought, "Why do I always think 'Dave Barry' after these internal monologues? Maybe I should talk to a professional".

    • @ernestmoney7252
      @ernestmoney7252 3 года назад +3

      @@Isitshiyagalombili Quite creative, but there is a more parsimonious explanation.

  • @SoonRaccoon
    @SoonRaccoon 4 года назад +1939

    I never knew Neil Patrick Harris was so good at math.

    • @jocider5698
      @jocider5698 4 года назад +14

      😂

    • @justinhill8170
      @justinhill8170 4 года назад +20

      MmmVomit well I’m not surprised he was a child doctor

    • @dananajj
      @dananajj 4 года назад +25

      Clearly you haven't met his friend, Ted.

    • @oliver_siegel
      @oliver_siegel 4 года назад +11

      I came to the comment section only for that reason

    • @acobolew1
      @acobolew1 4 года назад +6

      Doogie Howser, PhD

  • @christianherenz5072
    @christianherenz5072 4 года назад +158

    That was quality 15 minutes.

  • @stevenpurtee5062
    @stevenpurtee5062 3 года назад +18

    This was a nice example. I'd argue that you made it more complicated than it needed to be after 7:45. The only way those two power functions can be equal for all values of x is if the coefficients are equal and if the powers are equal. That gives you the same two relationships.

  • @ButiLao44
    @ButiLao44 4 года назад +141

    Me: "Oh wow I'm so glad I'm finally through with my math final and am rid of math forever"
    RUclips: hey wanna watch this video about MATH?
    Me: *slams play button*

  • @AlexTrusk91
    @AlexTrusk91 3 года назад +26

    Thanks, the first 5 minutes helped me with a wildly different math problem. When you talked about classes of functions, that gave me the right hint what i had to look for

  • @Beniguitar94
    @Beniguitar94 4 года назад +42

    Very fun exercise! Thank you for sharing. Though I followed similar rationale, I solved it differently (and with way less algebra):
    f'(x) = f-1(x)
    f(f-1(x)) = x
    Hence: f(f'(x)) = x
    Assuming a shape of the form: f(x) = A · x^r
    f'(x) = A · r · x^(r-1)
    f(f'(x)) = A^(r+1) · r^r · x^(r^2 - r) = x = x^1
    From here, it is easy to see that terms of x need to be equal in both sides, hence: r^2 - r = 1; r = (1±sqrt(5))/2
    Then, given that r^r is a mess, you define A to cancel out the mess: A^(r+1) · r^r = 1; A = (1/r^r)^(1/(r+1))
    Finally getting: f(x) = (1/r^r)^(1/(r+1)) · x^r, where r = (1±sqrt(5))/2

    • @theuserings
      @theuserings 2 года назад +1

      Do you use android? If so how do you type the dot (multiplication sign)? I only have • in my keyboard

  • @fadiel-riachi6675
    @fadiel-riachi6675 4 года назад +186

    Nice video! I immediately felt like solving for the general case. If you solve the following equation : nth derivative of f(x) equals inverse of f(x), you get a very nice closed-form epression for f(x)=Ax^r where r is solution to r^2-nr-1=0, the so-called ''metallic ratios'' and A=( (r-n)!/r! )^(r/(r+1)). Something interesting also happens when n is odd....

    • @shaileshrana7165
      @shaileshrana7165 4 года назад +16

      Numberphile needs to get on it.

    • @possessedchair8144
      @possessedchair8144 4 года назад +33

      This is a nonlinear DE so finding one solution doesn’t mean you’ve found all of them, I suspect there are probably more solutions are not of this general form.

    • @fadiel-riachi6675
      @fadiel-riachi6675 4 года назад +15

      Agreed. As stated in the video by Michael. I have just found one set of solutions by supposing f(x)=Ax^r but there might be others

    • @rakshithsajjan3639
      @rakshithsajjan3639 4 года назад +1

      Can u explain how did you solve for the general case? Thanks.

    • @fadiel-riachi6675
      @fadiel-riachi6675 4 года назад +13

      ​@@rakshithsajjan3639
      Suppose f(x) is of the Ax^r form, then
      f'(x) = rAx^(r-1)
      f''(x) = r(r-1)Ax^(r-2)
      f'''(x) = r(r-1)(r-2)Ax^(r-3)
      Until the nth derivative, which is r(r-1)(r-2)....(r-n+2)(r-n+1)Ax^(r-n).
      This can then be simplified to the following expression:
      (r! / (r-n)!) * Ax^(r-n)
      We know f^-1(x) = (x/A)^(1/r)
      You then use the same method as in the video, equating the 2 expressions and noticing that each of them must equal 1 for the equation to be true.

  • @TessaLucy
    @TessaLucy Год назад +2

    For f’ = the n-fold composition with itself (16:00), you are led to r being a solution to r^(n+1) - r + 1 = 0 which I am not sure is solvable in most cases. Interestingly, the f•f (n=1) and f inverse (n=-2) problems from the video correspond to quadratic equations, but anything from n=-4 (f inverse composed with itself twice) to n=3 (f•f•f•f) should have “nice” solutions using the quartic formula

  • @abelpalmer552
    @abelpalmer552 4 года назад +466

    "The phith root" lol

    • @CandidDate
      @CandidDate 4 года назад +5

      My calculator doesn't have a phi button but I calculated the phith root of one over phi to be 0.7427429446. Can anyone verify?

    • @JivanPal
      @JivanPal 4 года назад +4

      @@CandidDate, yup, that's correct: www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=%281+%2F+golden+ratio%29%5E%281+%2F+golden+ratio%29

    • @Fasteroid
      @Fasteroid 4 года назад +5

      feef

    • @PhilipGLee
      @PhilipGLee 4 года назад +9

      one two three four phith

    • @AndyZach
      @AndyZach 4 года назад +1

      'To catch a phith'.

  • @KarstenJohansson
    @KarstenJohansson 4 года назад +46

    I need more differentials in my workout.

  • @ПавелЩичко-е3ж
    @ПавелЩичко-е3ж 4 года назад +74

    Why should one calculate the inverse of f, when one can just compose candidate f' with f to show that it is the inverse indeed.

  • @karangupta4978
    @karangupta4978 4 года назад +32

    Love the frequent uploads, keep going!!
    Your videos are very informative for high school students preparing for competitive exams.

  • @mina86
    @mina86 4 года назад +45

    7:33 - at this point you could have just said that by the power of polynomials, either rA = 0 (which is easy to show that would not give solutions) or rA=(1/A)^(1/r) and r-1=1/r.

    • @vivien2184
      @vivien2184 4 года назад +5

      I thought the same, however, these are not polynomial functions, as the power doesn't have to be an integer. Yet i think it does still apply.

    • @alert.272
      @alert.272 4 года назад

      This is exactly what I came to say. Cuts out a couple steps.

  • @oliverinspace9252
    @oliverinspace9252 4 года назад +7

    Great video!
    A nice intuition of why φ arises from this DE is that φ and its conjugate, -1/φ, is 1 more than their reciprocal (i.e. 1/φ and -φ).
    For the explanation below, we consider the case r=φ, as outlined in the video.
    As the function is in polynomial form, the derivative of the function would be φ-1, thus giving you 1/φ.
    Similarly, the inverse of f(x) would also be in polynomial form, with reciprocal power, as we take the root of the power to obtain the inverse.
    Considering the case where r=-1/φ, we would find that A=(-1)^φ=e^(iπφ), thus obtaining a complex function in polynomial form. Sadly, this does not give a solution to the DE because the derivative differs from the inverse by a factor of 1/φ.

  • @jimgoldie967
    @jimgoldie967 4 года назад +3

    What a delight to have such a lucid presentation of how to approach this curious differential equation. It made me feel as though I still can do it decades after Math 46 (Diff. Eqns.)!

  • @SwapnilAnand1998
    @SwapnilAnand1998 4 года назад +3

    This is one of the most beautiful math video involving one of the most beautiful mathematical equation I've ever come across.

  • @intergalakti176
    @intergalakti176 4 года назад +57

    I don't think I would call this a differential equation, its more of a functional equation, as we want f(f'(x))=1. Sadly, the machinery of ODEs doesn't work in this case, i.e. Picard Linelöf isn't applicable; that would have maybe answered the uniqueness question. However, a view remarks are in order:
    - We can multiply any solution by (-1) to get another, different solution.
    - Any solution must be strictly monotonically increasing or decreasing if we want it defined on a connected subset of R, so that the inverse exists. By the above point, we may assume wlog. that it is strictly monotonically increasing. But then f'(x)>=0, so f^-1(x)>= 0 too, so f can not be defined on the whole of R, but only on nonnegative numbers!!!
    The function in the video is obviously only well-defined for nonnegative numbers, too! Therefore, no solution can be defined on all real numbers.

    • @sw4379
      @sw4379 4 года назад +16

      1. You probably wanna say f(f'(x)) = x rather than f(f'(x)) = 1
      2. Multiply a solution by (-1) doesn't necessarily yield another solution, cuz -f^(-1)(x) isn't necessarily the inverse of -f(x). ( -f'(x) is the derivative of -f(x) for sure. )
      3. The conclusion is partially correct: strictly monotonically increasing part can be defined only on positive numbers. However, we can find a decreasing solution on the negative axis. An ansatz f(x)=A(-x)^r works with A, r being undetermined negative coefficient, and it turns out r=bar(phi)=1-phi~ -0.618, A~ - (-bar(phi))^(-1/bar(phi))=-(phi-1)^phi. Putting thing together, a piecewise function defined on the whole real axis except {x=0}:
      f(x)= 0.618^0.618 * x^1.618 for x>0, -0.618^1.618 * x^(-0.618) for x

    • @erickilgore4869
      @erickilgore4869 4 года назад +4

      SW addresses the key issue with your point but I think it is worth extending both your and his remarks a bit further.
      1. In fact, multiplying by -1 will never give you another solution. Since f must be either non-decreasing or non-increasing (the derivative can tend to 0 at a closed endpoint of the domain), the pre-image of its domain must be contained entirely in either the non-negative or non-positive real numbers. It follows that any non-decreasing solution must have domain bounded below, and likewise any non-increasing solution must have domain bounded above. Moreover, if f is non-decreasing then the left endpoint of the domain is bounded below by the value of f(0) (presuming this is defined, otherwise we need not worry about this), and vice-versa for a non-increasing function. Thus, we can guarantee that f^{-1)(x) >= x everywhere, and so f must be unbounded. It follows immediately that -f is not a solution.
      2. Given this, one might ask if the part of a non-decreasing (resp. non-increasing) solution which lies on the "wrong" side of 0 (that is to say, the negative part of the domain of a non-decreasing solution) can be reflected in this manner and remain a solution. This too is impossible, since the values of f on the negative reals must be negative (resp. positive reals must be positive), and so negating the function results in an ill-defined inverse and thus does not solve our equation.
      3. In fact, all that I've said above regarding non-increasing solutions can be safely disregarded, since there cannot be solutions defined on the negative real line. To see this, observe that any such solution must take on every negative value, be non-increasing, and have domain bounded above. It is not hard to see that this is a contradiction, since these last two imply f is bounded below.
      4. We can do even better than this: There are no non-increasing solutions. Observe that any non-increasing solution must have domain bounded above by 0, and in fact must have value 0 at 0. But then it must take on a negative value somewhere, and be non-increasing. This is a contradiction. Thus we need only really worry about finding solutions with domain bounded below which are non-decreasing! (Note that SW has gone wrong in their third point. You cannot hope to take (-x)^r and get a real number, this is generically complex (and in fact will be for r = phi, so there really are no solutions on the negative reals)).
      5. There are some comments on initial data that the video omits by restricting to the case f(0) = 0. One sees from my arguments above that if we pose data for the value of f at 0, then we must have that f(0)

    • @sw4379
      @sw4379 4 года назад +2

      @@erickilgore4869 Thanks for your long comment. I agree with your reasoning based on the presumption that f(0) is defined. Based on the presumption we can argue f(0)=0 and no such f(x) for x being negative.
      However, if we don't require the point x=0 to satisfy the original eq, my solution defined in the domain (-inf, 0) still works depite a typo (I was missing a minus sign before x). So my solution is:
      f(x)= 0.618^0.618 * x^1.618 for x>0
      -0.618^1.618 * (-x)^(-0.618) for x

  • @oldnordy2665
    @oldnordy2665 4 года назад +3

    I transformed the question into f( f'(x) ) = x, and also immediately thought of (not necessarily integer) polynomials fitting the bill. Starting with x^n, you immediately get that you need to satisfy n(n-1) = 1 and the golden ratio solution and the one with the negative sign in front of the square root. Then you only have to worry about the constant in front, which can take on different forms (but same numerical value) because of the properties of "phi."
    Seems a bit faster - but then I did not have to write on a black / white bord ...
    I try to Americanize my Greek letters' pronunciation, because otherwise my students don't know what I am talking about. Anyone else say "vfee?" I admire the author for doing so - at best, I give both options (mjoo, mü ...).

  • @samallen3327
    @samallen3327 4 года назад +9

    This video singly handlily made me want to get back into math. I may know an approach I could take to finding out if this is the unique solution but it sounds over complicated.
    I may need to do some research!!

    • @chirrrs
      @chirrrs 3 года назад

      I'm watching this 3 years removed from upper division university math courses. I've been working and not really using everything I learned since then. I look back at something like this and think, "wow, I used to be able to do that!". Not so much now. To share your sentiment, this and a few other videos have made me want to get back into it just for the hell of it!

  • @VK-sp4gv
    @VK-sp4gv 4 года назад +122

    The feeth root of one over fee. I love it.

    • @dat2125
      @dat2125 4 года назад +5

      V K phi

    • @simonstockinger9293
      @simonstockinger9293 4 года назад +10

      Well actually the greek letter φ is pronounced "fee". But english speaking folks keep mispronouncing it "fye" just as some other very common pronounciation mistakes. As like "Youler" is actually pronounced "Oiler"

    • @StuartSimon
      @StuartSimon 4 года назад +1

      V K Actually, he’s saying “phi”, but what he writes looks like a psi to me. It’s a cursive variant of phi that is very unfamiliar to me.

    • @nicktosti7487
      @nicktosti7487 4 года назад +1

      *quentin tarantino entered the chat*

    • @p-kotov
      @p-kotov 4 года назад +10

      @@simonstockinger9293
      They also pronounce Pi (π) as Pie, not as Pee. I think "pee" would be too funny for English speakers.

  • @digitig
    @digitig 4 года назад +37

    "We're almost at the end" - the video progress bar begs to differ.

  • @JynxSp0ck
    @JynxSp0ck 4 года назад +14

    He inhales so much I'm 4 minutes in and already exhausted.

  • @gagsgsiso2378
    @gagsgsiso2378 4 года назад +116

    Just saying that f(x)=0 is a solution for f'(x)=f(x)
    Nevermind, just realized it's included in f(x)=ce^x... oops

    • @amaarquadri
      @amaarquadri 4 года назад +21

      I don't think that function even has an inverse.

    • @ViniciusTeixeira1
      @ViniciusTeixeira1 4 года назад +23

      @@behzat8489 I think the inverse function of y=0 would be x=0, but that's not a function

    • @behzat8489
      @behzat8489 4 года назад +3

      @@ViniciusTeixeira1 yes you are right. For one moment i thought f(x)=0 as a point (0,0)

    • @ravinchowdhury5215
      @ravinchowdhury5215 4 года назад +13

      For a function to be invertible, you need perfect one-one correspondence in the domain and range; f(x) = 0 would only be invertible for x is a single constant (say a) and f^-1(0) = a. So technically yes it is invertible but not very interesting.

    • @agginswaggin
      @agginswaggin 4 года назад

      my exact thought process lmao

  • @おき-m6x
    @おき-m6x 4 года назад

    初めて外国人が数学の授業をしている動画を見ましたが、英語の勉強にもなって素晴らしいです。
    I watched the video that foreigns taught mathematics for the first time
    I was interested in this video because I can learn both math and English

  • @dcterr1
    @dcterr1 4 года назад +4

    Wow, I never thought about this type of differential equation before. Very interesting, and great solution!

  • @nacl-sn7156
    @nacl-sn7156 Год назад +2

    AAAA, Why do I only get this video now?!
    I've studied this problem 6~7 years ago when my maths teacher couldn't answer...
    From what I remember, I proved there are an infinite amount of solutions: one for each positive real number "a" (the solution is then defined on "[a, +inf[") plus an other one. The one you show would be for "a=0". There's an other one with the same exact shape I call "a=0-", where you solve the same steps staring with "f(x) = A*(-x)^r" and the solution is defined on "]-inf, 0[".
    I only ever found the Taylor series of the other ones, no simple way to write them out... Still have the Python scripts I used to plot them! ^^ You can approach a solution to the DE with function series: "f_0(x) = x" and "f_{n+1} = \int_{a}^{x} f_{n}^{-1}(t) dt + f_{n}(a)".
    You get very interesting results, like how for each solution "a" in "[0, 1]" there is an other solution "b" in "[1, phi]" so that both functions overlap for "x >= b".
    Also tried a lot in the complexes, with binary functions, matrices...
    Gosh, I have pages and figures upon scripts about this simple equation that obsessed me for a solid year and a half, I don't know how I feel about this now!! >< (Great video by the way! Never thought it would take a maths video for me to post a RUclips comment...)

    • @joshuabirkhoff9704
      @joshuabirkhoff9704 Год назад +1

      You should have published your results at least on research gate. I got the same conclusion that there is a unique solution of type f:[a, +inf[ -> [a, +inf[. I have done this with inductive definition and convergence theorems. This is a longer proof, but can be applied to a more general case like f'(x) = F(f^-1(x)).

  • @CotopaxiAH1968
    @CotopaxiAH1968 4 года назад +3

    That was quite enjoyable! The right combination between creativity (educated guesswork) and technique.

  • @Serghey_83
    @Serghey_83 3 года назад

    1. Справочник по дифференциальным уравнениям с частными производными первого порядка - Зайцев В.Ф., Полянин А.Д.
    2. Справочник по обыкновенным дифференциальным уравнениям - Зайцев В.Ф., Полянин А.Д.
    3. Справочник по интегральным уравнениям. Методы решения - Манжиров А.В., Полянин А.Д.
    4. Справочник по обыкновенным дифференциальным уравнениям - Э. Камке

  • @usptact
    @usptact 4 года назад +17

    When you solve enough differential equations, you get six pack.

  • @ichigo_nyanko
    @ichigo_nyanko 2 года назад +1

    I used the educated guess Ax^B just like you, but then I used the fact that if f'(x)=f^-1(x), then f(f'(x))=x. That gives you A(ABx^(B-1))=x which then gives you the system of equations B^2-B-1=0 (instantly recognisable as B=phi) and A^(B+1)*B^B=1 which can be easily rearranged to get A=phi^-1/phi

  • @Tiqerboy
    @Tiqerboy 4 года назад +25

    When I took a course on differential equations, and it has been a LONG time, I'm sure glad that question wasn't on the final. I needed a coffee to get through all that.
    But that guy is better than the math profs I did have, LOL

  • @belemusic
    @belemusic 3 года назад +2

    I solved this in another way without putting x on one side and constants on the other side. I just simply compared the coefficient one step before which for me seemed a little easier and resulted in the same outcome. Great video btw, really interesting stuff!

  • @jerrysstories711
    @jerrysstories711 4 года назад +30

    When you find yourself thinking about "phith" roots, it's time to go to bed.

  • @Someone-cr8cj
    @Someone-cr8cj 4 года назад +39

    I am greek and I have to thank you for pronouncing φ the right way

    • @PaulMartin-qt9ux
      @PaulMartin-qt9ux 4 года назад +6

      The problem I have pronouncing phi as 'fee' is just consistency. Your pi letter is pronounced the same as our p. Because of that we pronounce pi as 'pie.' So just for consistency of sound, I pronounce phi as 'fie'

    • @TheOiseau
      @TheOiseau 4 года назад +7

      In French, phi gets pronounced as fee, but pi also gets pronounced as pee. ^_^

    • @boffeycn
      @boffeycn 4 года назад +3

      Sadly many words are mispronounced or wrongly written by non-native speakers. It is particularly a problem in the USA. It used to be in the UK but it seems less of a problem nowadays.
      An example is Krakatau, which Americans demand is written and spoken as Krakatoa and get extremely abusive when one points out the correct spelling and pronunciation. But then they still use bbls as a measure of volume.

    • @leswhynin913
      @leswhynin913 4 года назад

      @@boffeycn UK still using miles

    • @daviskeene363
      @daviskeene363 4 года назад +4

      The brits among you yell at me, for how I say the letter "phi". But ask a Greek, they won't deny, there's something odd in saying "phi"

  • @joshbarthelmess4796
    @joshbarthelmess4796 4 года назад +11

    This man is the swollest math teacher I’ve ever seen in my life

    • @JoaoVictor-gy3bk
      @JoaoVictor-gy3bk 4 года назад +1

      Can you elaborate on that?

    • @khemirimoez8661
      @khemirimoez8661 4 года назад +5

      Suppose there exists a math teacher more swole but that's just wrong. QED ■

    • @gentlemandude1
      @gentlemandude1 4 года назад +1

      Have you never seen Prof. Leonard? ruclips.net/video/xf-3ATzFyKA/видео.html

    • @joshbarthelmess4796
      @joshbarthelmess4796 4 года назад

      gentlemandude1 I had not. Hot damn.

    • @foreachepsilon
      @foreachepsilon 4 года назад

      Pietro Bouselli

  • @raphaelreichmannrolim25
    @raphaelreichmannrolim25 4 года назад +1

    I was very pleased with your answer to the problem, mr. Penn. So beautiful... Through expansion of the respective functions into power series, I was able to find generally an equivalent system of equations that the Taylor coefficients of f(x) must satisfy to be a solution. They are complicated, however, and I won't try to go any further.

    • @raphaelreichmannrolim25
      @raphaelreichmannrolim25 4 года назад

      Almost generally, actually; I supposed analicity at 0. For the more general case the method would be nonetheless the same.

  • @klausg1843
    @klausg1843 3 года назад +25

    Very nice, as always.🤸‍♂️But I could propose to start by getting rid of the inverse function by replacing x by f(x) to get
    f’(f(x) = x, which is easier to manipulate

    • @wynautvideos4263
      @wynautvideos4263 Год назад +3

      Doesnt change anything when you are solving via guess and check

  • @blank4502
    @blank4502 Год назад +1

    Me who doesn't know what differential equations are:
    Interesting

  • @sujitbhattacharyya3705
    @sujitbhattacharyya3705 2 года назад +3

    That's probably the best differential equation I've ever seen.

    • @frenchimp
      @frenchimp Год назад

      It is not a differential equation.

  • @luck3949
    @luck3949 4 года назад

    From the moment where you have rA x^(r-1) = blabla* x^(1/r) you can say that since it holds for all x, then it also holds for case when x=1, and therefore rA = blabla. Therefore you can cancel out rA and blabla, and get x^(r-1) = x^(1/r) immediately. I really love this trick of assignin x=1 or x=0 in equations that hold for all x, it allows to quickly get rid of many letters at once.

  • @leswhynin913
    @leswhynin913 4 года назад +41

    This seemingly simple differential equation really yields an interesting result. Tomorrow I'll have to tackle the follow up questions

    • @AndyZach
      @AndyZach 4 года назад +1

      How'd you do on the followup questions?

    • @leswhynin913
      @leswhynin913 4 года назад +1

      ​@@AndyZach 1) I'm not sure how it can be solved without guess and test. I looked at Laplace transforms but I don't think it's possible because of f(-1)(x). 2) It is difficult to prove uniqueness without a direct solution method, plus what about non elementary functions or yet to be discovered functions? 3) f'(x)=f composed of itself, I think has solutions like y= (0.5*(1+i*sqrt(3))^(2/(1+i*sqrt(3))*x^(0.5*(1+i*sqrt(3)) and the same but with the complex conjugate. It's done using the same method as the video, but I am too lazy to back check this right now.

    • @leswhynin913
      @leswhynin913 4 года назад +2

      @@AndyZach If you are interested, I saw today that Dr. Peyam solved the number 3 follow-up question here: ruclips.net/video/cXpFDlIIczg/видео.html. His answer looks equivalent to mine from yesterday. What timing!

  • @Chewy427
    @Chewy427 10 месяцев назад

    This is such a fascinating equation. After staring at y=x for a while it seems obvious that the solution would be a power function whose exponent is between 1 and 2. If the exponent of f was greater than 2, then both it and its derivative would be superlinear but the inverse would be sublinear. If the exponent of f was less than 1, then f and its derivative would be sublinear but the inverse would be superlinear.

  • @observ_2008
    @observ_2008 4 года назад +6

    When you already know some math but you're still intrigued into it.
    Nice content dude.

  • @bentupper4614
    @bentupper4614 3 года назад

    Similar challenges from Douglas Hofstadter's Metamagical Themas:
    1) Find a real-valued function f: R -> R where f(f(x)) = 1/x.
    2) Find a real-valued function g: R -> R where g(g(x)) = -x

  • @BobCliffe
    @BobCliffe 4 года назад +3

    Nice video! I played with something similar before: (f^{-1})’ = (f’)^{-1}

  • @exoplanet11
    @exoplanet11 3 года назад

    At 9:00 when the equation:
    r - 1 + 1/r = 0
    Appeared, I solved it as:
    r-1 = 1/r
    This equation itself suggests the original problem in that r-1 is what the exponent becomes after a derivative is taken and 1/r suggests the inverse.
    How delightful to see it all solve for φ !!!

  • @lawrence18uk
    @lawrence18uk 4 года назад +5

    The warmup question is quite relevant for today, where we're considering exponential growth, where the rate of growth = the growth. Now that really is scary.

  • @thiagomilanezi1026
    @thiagomilanezi1026 4 года назад +2

    The beauty of mathematics... simply amazing! 👏👏👏
    Thank you for this great class! 🙏

  • @alanxie5907
    @alanxie5907 4 года назад +20

    I keep have this feeling that this dude would somehow suddenly start giving you random workout tutorials🤣

    • @peter_godman
      @peter_godman 4 года назад +5

      Drop down and GIVE ME TEN REASONS YOU WANT THIS PHD!

  • @mathbbn2676
    @mathbbn2676 4 года назад

    The teaching is so clear and clear that it is understood

  • @si48690
    @si48690 4 года назад +29

    It's beautiful that golden ratio pops like that serendipitously!! Awesome

    • @theimmux3034
      @theimmux3034 3 года назад +2

      Adding that word to my vocabulary

  • @mathurinrouan3971
    @mathurinrouan3971 Год назад +1

    A pretty difficult exam from France is based on showing that this equation has a solution, and that it is unique, but without expliciting it.

  • @yonil256
    @yonil256 4 года назад +4

    Great video as usual! Love all of them so far.
    But what about f(x) = SQR(2x)? f'(x) = 1/ SQR(2x)

    • @KolasName
      @KolasName 3 года назад +4

      I also couldn't get it until I've understood it is inversed function, means if Y = f (x) then x = f ^ (- 1) (Y) not (f (x)) ^ (- 1). I wasn't taught so and I don't like this notation. it's misleading, think, finv is better.

  • @tomatrix7525
    @tomatrix7525 4 года назад +1

    This was very good. Always nice to see some basics again

  • @pacolibre5411
    @pacolibre5411 4 года назад +5

    It feels weird to think of this as a differential equation since you can’t make a BVP or IVP out of it. Its very neat

  • @sams6454
    @sams6454 4 года назад +1

    Seriously, keep up the great work. I could see you contributing like 3blue1brown. Just interesting problems and a chalkboard. You don't need anything too fancy. People have been doing amazing math on the chalkboard for centuries

  • @harrystuart7455
    @harrystuart7455 4 года назад +8

    Does anyone know if there are any other solutions? Would be really interesting to see if there are any or if this is the most general solution

  • @grobertoac2430
    @grobertoac2430 4 года назад +1

    2:02 I think that it works to add C, but we have to add it to x, which makes e(x+C) = e(x)*e(C) = C'*e(x), where C' = constant. It is the same, but I see it like this in my mind, because:
    When you have f'(x)=f(x), then f'(x)/f(x) = 1. And f'/f is the derivate of ln(f), which means ln(f(x)) = x + C, where C is a constant.
    So f(x) = e(x+C) = C'*e(x).
    So, in a way, the constant is still an additive constant when we primitive

  • @JureGrg
    @JureGrg 4 года назад +4

    Hello!
    I'm excited about your channel. Your lessons are great. I will take the way you use the board as an example, as I am a math teacher myself.
    I conclude that many lessons have also been influenced by quarantine and your sports energy has focused even more on math.
    Thank you for many lessons and best regards, Jure Grgurevic!

  • @treehuggerabby123
    @treehuggerabby123 4 года назад

    I clicked this video out of curiosity. I'm taking calc 3 this summer and both linear algebra and differential equations this fall. I'm so psyched!

  • @JustMaiyak
    @JustMaiyak 4 года назад +3

    I cannot concentrate on what this class is about. I wonder why. 💪

  • @tayyihcheung7450
    @tayyihcheung7450 3 года назад

    There is a much simpler way to solve it: rewrite the equation as f(x)df(x)=dx; integrating both sides yields (1/2)f(x)_squared=x+c. Hence, f(x)=(+/-)square_root(2x+C), where c, C is an arbitrary constant. Because the problem asks for only one solution, take the positive one and set C=0.

  • @ewoud2688
    @ewoud2688 4 года назад +3

    sometimes a video like this one has to pop up to remind me how beautiful maths is :)

  • @juliendodet2513
    @juliendodet2513 Год назад

    If you derive the DE you get f''(x)=(f-1)'(x)=1/f'(f(x))
    But since f'(x)=f-1(x), f'(f(x))=f-1(f(x))=x, hence f''(x)=1/x
    Integrating twice you get f(x)=x ln(x) +Ax + B (A and B are constants)

  • @Joe-nh9fy
    @Joe-nh9fy 4 года назад +5

    This is really cool. Does anyone know examples in nature that use this differential equation?

    • @liviu445
      @liviu445 2 года назад

      Logically such thing exists, it's up to your genius to find it.

  • @xinfuchen5355
    @xinfuchen5355 3 года назад

    The general solution is
    f(x)= a^{1-a} [ x-A]^a +A, x in [A,\infty)
    where A is any real number and a is the root of a=1+1/a.

  • @pianoclassico718
    @pianoclassico718 4 года назад +6

    for the third question , i believe that taking the inverse function on both sides results in an interesting equation that is not so different from the current one f^-1(f'(x))=f(x) as for the direct solution we can get to f(f'(x))=x we can reduce it so f(f(x)=1/f'(x) ( very similar to question 3) which may yield to some hint towards the analytical solution without a guess, though I am not sure.

  • @HotsumaOboro17
    @HotsumaOboro17 4 года назад +1

    I had long been searching for an answer to this question, suspected that the phi number was involved. Now I already know the answer. It is very beautiful.

  • @joshuaburlington2898
    @joshuaburlington2898 4 года назад +5

    Man, I kept getting lost messing around with the relation [f^-1]' = 1/(f'(f^-1))

  • @axelperezmachado5008
    @axelperezmachado5008 4 года назад +1

    Amazing problem solving technique. Never thought of this idea thinking in terms of classes that go to themselves after some transformation

    • @ffggddss
      @ffggddss 4 года назад

      Which raises an interesting point. You might also find solutions if you can find a class of functions whose derivatives and inverse functions jump into the same class as each other, but a different one from the original class.
      Seems harder to think of such a case, though...
      Fred

  • @adenpower249
    @adenpower249 4 года назад +22

    The world's best maths professor strikes again.

    • @cmilkau
      @cmilkau 4 года назад +2

      It's really good, but I know someone who does even better. Then again, you have to give credits for bringing it to youtube, for free, so...

    • @hziebicki
      @hziebicki 4 года назад +1

      And the most ripped too, damn...

    • @mikehodge5251
      @mikehodge5251 4 года назад

      He's not British so he is a math professor.

  • @KW-12
    @KW-12 4 года назад +2

    Woah!!! that the golden number is the solution to r is really interesting! I never imagined that property for this number.
    If you use the inverse function’s derivative theorem you can tell that this also satisfies
    (d^2f(f(x))/dx^2)*(df(x)/dx)^2=1 and
    df/dx(df(x)/dx)*d^2f(x)/dx^2=1

  • @lordthiccusiii
    @lordthiccusiii 4 года назад +508

    This guy looks likes ur average white late 30s maths teacher if he lifted

    • @98danielray
      @98danielray 4 года назад +10

      @@pnneeth weirdchamp

    • @lordthiccusiii
      @lordthiccusiii 4 года назад +20

      @@pnneeth u realise what u did is take offense on someone elses behalf on what i thought was a compliment?

    • @somebodyiusedtoknow2012
      @somebodyiusedtoknow2012 4 года назад +17

      Why is this comment section so horny today?

    • @NStripleseven
      @NStripleseven 4 года назад +1

      Somebody I used to know No idea.

    • @williamlyerly3114
      @williamlyerly3114 4 года назад +1

      Think you need to check Penn’s personal website. Looks like he takes publish or perish seriously.

  • @mitancheyflorian6570
    @mitancheyflorian6570 4 года назад +1

    6:02 if y=A*x^^r it doesn't means that x=A*y^^r. It is x=(y/A)^^(1/r)

  • @trbz_8745
    @trbz_8745 4 года назад +87

    Take a shot every time he says "phi"

    • @watsisname
      @watsisname 4 года назад +1

      Or every time he says "great".

    • @Metalhammer1993
      @Metalhammer1993 4 года назад +1

      @@watsisname one or the other. i need my liver

    • @DancingRain
      @DancingRain 4 года назад +7

      LOL. Don't drink and derive. :P

    • @jiffylou98
      @jiffylou98 4 года назад

      @@DancingRain Comment of the century

    • @andrewtaylor8899
      @andrewtaylor8899 4 года назад

      @@watsisname or "go ahead and.."

  • @xinfuchen5355
    @xinfuchen5355 3 года назад

    Similarly, for any positive constant A>=1, the following initial value problem has a unique solution:
    g'(y)= 1/ g(g(y)) for y in (A, infty)
    g(A)=A

  • @ichbinluis2343
    @ichbinluis2343 4 года назад +37

    I have not even completed Pre-Calculus, I don’t know what I’m doing here.

    • @itar10n
      @itar10n 4 года назад +5

      Differential equations is kinda of like algebra, but instead of values, your variables are functions.

    • @jiffylou98
      @jiffylou98 4 года назад +19

      Differential equations is kinda of like algebra, but instead of values, you lie to your parents about how well grad school is going

    • @itar10n
      @itar10n 4 года назад +2

      @@jiffylou98 that too.

  • @konstantinos3184
    @konstantinos3184 2 года назад

    (have not checked thoroughly for similar answers, sorry if I missed one), Let g = f^-1. Then g' = -f^-1 f' f^-1 = -g^3. => dg/g^3 = -dt ... etc.

  • @Rundas69420
    @Rundas69420 4 года назад +42

    Just seeing that differential equation made mw think: In the end, either e, pi or the golden ration must pop up from nowhere.

  • @willyh.r.1216
    @willyh.r.1216 4 года назад +1

    Yes, it is really a very interesting differential equation. I like the warm up and guess part as exploration method.

    • @frenchimp
      @frenchimp Год назад

      Not a differential equation.

  • @alexeyvlasenko6622
    @alexeyvlasenko6622 4 года назад +3

    Is anything known about the uniqueness of this solution? In particular, the solution doesn't have any adjustable parameters, so can it really be the general solution to the equation?

  • @prathameshsundaram7509
    @prathameshsundaram7509 3 года назад

    Revised a lot of concepts so fast through that problem!
    Thank you!

  • @Julschgan
    @Julschgan 4 года назад +12

    You can see that is must be the golden ratio way earlier from the exponents: 1/r = r-1 is solved by the golden ratio

    • @active285
      @active285 4 года назад +2

      I would argue for pedagogical reasons his explanation is worth the effort ;).

  • @josephl6896
    @josephl6896 3 года назад +1

    Phith root. Feeth-root. 40 years of math and I've never done that before.

  • @NumdegasedUHC
    @NumdegasedUHC 4 года назад +5

    “The phifth root” lol

  • @breathless792
    @breathless792 Год назад

    I got the same answer but using a slightly different method, I put the powers of X equal and constants equal (creating 2 simultaneous equations and found the contant and power that way.

  • @easymathematik
    @easymathematik 4 года назад +43

    For the third quetion my feeling tell me, that the so called "metallic ratios" are involved.

    • @nahidhkurdi6740
      @nahidhkurdi6740 4 года назад +4

      Marvellous! Your intuition seems to work like mine.

    • @gamerdio2503
      @gamerdio2503 4 года назад

      Either that or he came up with that after already seeing the answer, and he wanted to seem smart.

    • @easymathematik
      @easymathematik 4 года назад +1

      @@gamerdio2503 That´s possible but I am over 30 and I am out of old doing something silly like that.

    • @NahinAndroid
      @NahinAndroid 4 года назад +2

      What is metallic ratio

    • @easymathematik
      @easymathematik 4 года назад +3

      @@NahinAndroid A generalization of the golden ratio.

  • @txikitofandango
    @txikitofandango 4 года назад +3

    I did it. Yay! I got to the same equation as you: (1/b)^(1/a)*x^(1/a) = abx^(a-1) but then I set the exponents equal to each other AND THEN SEPARATELY set the coefficients equal to each other. Setting the exponents equal gives you the quadratic equation that leads to the Golden Ratio for a. And then it's easy to solve for b in the coefficients. It's always handy to know that 1/phi = phi - 1, it saves you from some gnarly expressions involving phi.

    • @txikitofandango
      @txikitofandango 4 года назад +1

      I also like invoking phi-bar = 1 - phi = -1/phi as needed.

  • @yoavshati
    @yoavshati 4 года назад +6

    Doesn't A*exp(x+B) also work for the first question?

    • @carlohu9745
      @carlohu9745 4 года назад +31

      It's the same answer, cause you can combine A*exp(B) as exp(B) is a constant.

    • @photonicsauce7729
      @photonicsauce7729 4 года назад +1

      @@carlohu9745 yep ur right

    • @txikitofandango
      @txikitofandango 4 года назад

      Didn't he explain that this doesn't work? Because the inverse of exp is log, and the derivative of exp is exp, and so log cannot equal exp.

    • @blugio
      @blugio 4 года назад +3

      A*exp(x+B) = A*exp(B)*exp(x) = C*exp(x), so it's the same solution in the end

    • @vinlebo88
      @vinlebo88 4 года назад +1

      @@txikitofandango OP refers to the first "warm up" question, not the main one.

  • @xinfuchen5355
    @xinfuchen5355 3 года назад

    There are three class of solutions:
    Class I: There exists a real number A such that f(A)=A.
    When A>1, the real solution is unique in the interval [A-c, A+d]
    where (A,A+d) is the maximal interval in which A

  • @BeattapeFactory
    @BeattapeFactory 4 года назад +6

    this video kinda blew up. thats lots of clicks in one day for a small math channel

  • @imatzav
    @imatzav 4 года назад +2

    Great video. Could you please make a video about functions which satisfy f(x)=f^(-1)(x) i.e. symmetric functions with respect to line y=x?