How about commenting on the DOD's changing policy about the US military able to use lethal force against the American citizens. Being as you're in the military and all. And how about posse comitatus??? Please comment.
all my stuff is 16 or 20 inch barrel with M193 55 grain 556. I never got worked up over real short barrels. I've cleared tight spaces with both with no problem. Thank you for making this video because longer barrels for the majority of people have more pluses than minuses.
For science, Federal Gold Medal Match 69gr out of a 20” is going 2877 fps at the muzzle, same ammo out of a 11.5” is 2410 fps. At 100 yards a 20” barrel has 1018 ft/lbs of energy, the 11.5” has 703 ft/lbs. A 16” barrel at the muzzle is 2709 fps with 896 ft/lbs. Projectile selection is key to be able to dump its energy over various distances. At 100 yards SMK’s punch a clean hole in soft tissue, unless it hits something denser. Federal Fusion 62gr expand and dump energy well past 200 yards when hitting different hydraulic media. Speed and projectile selection are key to effective transfer of energy at the target
In WROL, I'm doing everything I can to avoid CQB and room clearing, so I'm not too worried about using a short barrel. I'd rather get maximum velocity and effectiveness out of a 20 inch barrel than run a 10.5 or 11.5 or whatever.
On Shawn Ryan’s show recently SOB John McPhee spoke about home defense and said that he would never clear his own house because it takes 3 men to do it correctly. He said he has a prepared strongpoint that he can hold with a broom if necessary. The CQB focus is out of control.
Plus, they run so well. Soft shooting, very reliable, rounds all land in tidy little pile. M193 and rifle length AR were literally designed for each other.
I have 1 AR. A 16" Ruger ar556 with 18,000 rounds through it. Swapped gas rings often, replaced bolt at 8,000 rounds, shot out the barrel over 6 years of hard use and ended up replacing it with an FN. Finally just ordered my second AR, a BCM 16". The man is the weapon, not the gun.
On a similar vein, put up extra buckshot and rifled slugs. There are inevitably many people in your area that are good guys but normies that own at least a shotgun and probably not much more than a few boxes of clay/bird loads.
mk18 in the sheets, mk12 for the streets Also for my firearm and ammo; either a 20 inch upper from red right hand or the 24inch ar-rpk, both of mine are setup as binary systems - On that note, the 1/9 twist does really well with 40gr-55gr fortscott TUI ammo. the 40gr's are solid copper and chrono out of a 24 inch barrel over 3900 fps
20 inch Masterrace. Always made me cringe that dudes would see high speed operators with AR pistols and then assume they need an AR pistol as well, with no consideration to their own situation
14.5in suppressed with 77gr OTM is my SHTF setup. I run 77gr in all my ar15s for duty use. M193 is what I train with, back up ammo is several thousand rounds of green tips
This is actually why I got a .45 for shtf. If I’m stockpiling bulk ammo, it’s probably ball/target ammo, and I’d much rather use .45 ball than 9mm ball. It covers a lot more bases too.
Not a bad take at all my brother, I really appreciate your dumb takes and your good takes, I just love Americans with a voice, I love this 2A community. Keep doing you my friend. 16in Rifle, and who knows what ammo, I got a bit of everything, i think I might try and use the Silvertips first, but who knows, might be the fucking range ammo lol
I love the A1 lower that PSA came out with. I put a Super42 buffer spring in mine, and a maritime bolt latch, and that's it. My 20" is doing 1.4" with AAC 77s, and 1.2" with 75s, rested. Love it
16' inch 1/8 twist with 62 gr otm and 62 green tip . Most ar's are 16' which I personally think is a good compromise for length and ballistic performance
14.5 Geissele Super Duty with 75 and 77 gr AAC OTM. Maybe not the BEST match grade ammo, but very consistent for the money. Most ARs come with 1/7 twist barrels now, the AAC heavier grain stuff seems like a solid option and can be had for somewhat closer to 55gr range ammo. That being said, 20” is just 👌
I run a 16in M4rgery type build with 55gr M193. I prefer M193 over M855 because it has higher muzzle velocity and better terminal performance at the expense of barrier penetration. M193 is also more likely to defeat body armor at close range than 855 because the higher muzzle velocity, surprisingly.
This is why my primary is a Steyr AUG A3 with a 16 inch barrel .. its the size of a MK18 and it hits hard with 55 grain ball out to 300/400 with its 1/9 twist.. Plus is super reliable and balanced
The magic number is 2700FPS. That's the velocity required to do damage and yaw the bullet so it tumbles and causes maximum damage in a body. The shortest barrel length you should ever go with for 5.56 is 12 inches. Good size for a truck gun, but that's it. In a city or suburban environment,most engagements would probably occur at 200M and under. There are very few spots where you could actually get a clear 400 yard shot without lots of obstructions. Most importantly, you need to be able to identify your target. You don't want to shoot any friendlies. The average person can't shoot over 300 or 400 yards anyways. If you're in a rural environment then yes, a 20inch barrel would be absolutely critical too have. 16 inch and 20 inch barreled rifles don't look tacticool, but they're essential for most applications. Excellent video Mr Grenade.
Yaw doesn't have to do with the velocity. If anything becoming trans sonic will cause it to yaw. 2600 is the velocity to get consistent fragging and breaking of m193's cannelure, and a 10.3 will do that out to about 40-50 yards.
I run a Mark 18 suppressed as my ‘main’ rifle. I dont forsee engaging out past 200-300 yards. I run 62 grain AMax and 82 grain from Badlands. I also have a 13.7 all purpose rifle that can run the 55 grain pretty good, although I mainly use 55 grain to train and thats it. I didnt choose the Mk 18 based on someone else outlook. This is what works best for my situation. Im not out in the country or rural areas so my needs are met with the Mk18 and premium ammunition.
Something to consider is the terrain you are in. In dense woods in rough hills you may be limited to 200m max in the winter and far less when everything is green. A light 20" is still super handy in most situations.
I'm sticking with my 12.5 mid length gas, with a direct thread can that lives on it full time. Difference in muzzle velocity between 12.5 and 14.5 is minimal, difference in moving that rifle around with a can attached is significant. Most people aren't going to be engaging threats at 500-600 yards, which is why I've got mine set up with a max point blank zero of 330 meters using my 62gr ammo. Plus my defense ammo and training ammo have very similar flight paths so I don't need to worry about having a wildly different zero And if engaging at that kind of range, sure 5.56 *can* work, but there's much better options for working at that kind of range
@@trench_grenade The velocity difference between 14.5 and 12.5 is negligible, and it gets me a suppressed rifle with light, red dot and magnifier coming in at 7.5lbs There's very few situations, even in WROL scenario where you're dealing with engagements beyond 300 meters
I will say the major drawback with a longer barrel on the LR/308 is weight. It just makes it too heavy unless you are on a tripod or lying in wait. It really depends what the 'intended' use will be.... I went to the 16inch barrel on the 308 for the weight reason...I also went 16 inch barrel on my LR/308 build to match up on the 16 in barrel Wilson Combat 358 Winchester barrel I have :)
It’s my go to rifle. 20” PSA Premium FN chrome lined mounted on an M4 lower. Carry handle iron sights. I find in just as fast send even accurate at distance. Do have a prism 3x optic set aside just in case but it sits in my ruck more as a spotting/passive monocular. Red dot goes on the carry handle in low light conditions. What sold me on this is inspired on the Canadian C7 which they have used for years. The adjustable LOP pays off while wearing a vest.
I have an aero 20inch on a psa clone lower, running with 55gr and 62gr PMC xtac and they come screaming out that barrel and has been pretty reliable over the last 2 years
20" FN with the old school clamshell handguards. Those old school clamshell handguards are super rugged and tough with a minimum of holes to collect mud twigs and leaves. 10:35
Had a squib recently in a faxon, and it held up and didn't hurt us. Broke the bcg, but they warrantee'd it. Barrel upper and lower survived. I would trust my life to Faxon for sure and know they got my back if something breaks
I run an 11.5 as a primary with a 16 inch as an alternate, because realistic maximum engagement distance in my environment is 300 yards. Anything more and you have to actually seek out that open of an area. 16 and 20 inch barrels are really cool, but suppressing that becomes unwieldy quick. A suppressed 11.5 is still pretty handy and it’s built to be a night fighting rifle anyway.
My 11.5 geissele is also my nightfighting gun. Awesome barrel length for inside 250m. I prefer a 14.5 just because it’s a bit more well rounded but I love them both
Same. I live in New England and immediately outside of the towns you're in woods thick enough that past 75-100 yards the trees overlap to the point that you're not going to sight and hit anything. 14.5 is my primary.
16” from Standard Mfg. because the guy at the store said it was a fantastic gun for a reasonable price. 55 and 62 grain because they are the most plentiful at a reasonable price and they work with the 1:8 rate.
I've been hand loading a bunch of 55gr Hornady sps for my shtf ammo. I've got about 700 loaded up now. It's going 3125 out of a 20" and 2900 out of a 16". I get 100 projectiles for $11. I looked at 77gr Sierra's but they cost $25 for 50 projectiles. Maybe once I get 1000 of these loaded up I will load up some 75gr Hornady bthp for my more accurate loads. After some testing I was shooting 1.25" at 100 with them with a scoped 20" and under 6" at 300 with my red dot at 300. I'm one of the poors so i figured I better load my own. I and my cousins use the for our deer loads and we've taken a couple and they leave a tennis ball sized hole shredded through the animal. Usually stops on the ribs on the opposite side. Not optimal but acceptable. For reference a 3006 leaves a softball sized hole and 12 gauge usually blows apart the deer completely and usually only leaves the tail on the ground (just kidding, though I've seen several legs shot off using 12 gauge even with perfect placement... That's like basketball size)
10.5 300 blackout suppressed with 190gr sub x. Suppressed. 16 inch 5.56 m855 because that’s what it shoots the best, been debating on getting a lightweight 20 inch upper for it
Learn lots from this channel. Love the takes and the feedback. Just picked up BCM 16 upper will match with an Aero lower. Also a stripped DD 16 looking for bedt option lower. Love the take on the 20 inch barrel. Will put on list to work towards.
Most of my ammo stash is 55 grain, part of it is 62 grain and a limited amount is 'duty' ammo. "Poor but Proud." Having said that, all but one of my AR's sport a 16" barrel. I finally bought an 'A4 last year and am kicking myself in the butt for not getting one sooner, what a nice weapon. I totally agree with you about barrel length=velocity and would never saddle myself with an AR pistol. Hell, even my 5.56mm AK has an 18" barrel (ZPAP M90). Good video, Sir, subscribed.
10.5 is by the bed with a can and 75 grain bthp. And that’s literally all it’s good for. My go to is 16 inch also with 75 grain bthp. 16 is a happy medium. Running it with or without a can.
I've got 8½" 9mm AR-9's, 8½" 300 Blackouts,11½" 1-12 twist carbine XM-177E2, 6 M-Forgery's with 16" 1-8 mid-length Gas carbine's, 3 SPR's with 18" rifle Gas and 4 20" rifles from the 601, SP-1, A1, A4. THAT 601 with 1-14" twist and 45gr ballistic tips or hollow points pushing 3,500fps is basically a War Crime. Welcome to our Indian Burial Grounds. Prepare to Die! The best part of being a Civilian is being able to buy the best available and not being stuck with the DOD trash ammo. Barrel length and twist is only a issue with M-193 and M855. Once you get into Premium Hunting and Defense ammo the performance shortcomings of USGI Ball ammo becomes glaring apparent. I love burning GI ball as much as the next Guy but y'all really need some High Performance Expanding ammo. Blitz King, VX, Varmint Grenade are some of my favorites that I have used to kill a lot of Whitetails over the past 35 years.
One thing that people don't consider about 20" barrels is how smooth they recoil. You don't need a c- clamp grip and proper form to drill down on a target, the gun barely moves. A lightweight pencil barrel 20" build is a good option for doing just about anything you need a rifle for
MY SHTF / GO TO WAR" DO ALL RIFFLE" ....... 14.5 DD M4 BLOCK 2 with ACOG + RMR , DBAL STEINER AND SUREFIRE LIGHT , and also have a DD MK12 20" BARREL FOR LONGER RANGE ENGAGEMENTS, I ALSO PICKED UP A M110 308 20" barrel for spicy engagements , planning on picking up a 50bmg here soon for when we gurrella
My rifle build is simple, 16 inch barrel with 62grain greentip 5.56x45. I have a simple red dot, angled grip that can be easily swapped for my vertical grip. My red dot sight is also visible with my Nods which is a positive.
16” and 11.5”….live right at edge of city. If need to go into the city 11.5 fits nice in compact and once out the 16 but I’m with you, a longer barrel is the ticket.
I carried an M16A2 in the USMC in 1996....they worked very well. Shorter barrels IMHO are better for CQB. Otherwise, for outdoor work, 14.5 inch is good, 16 inch is better and 20 inch is best. Love the kitchen talks bro!
The 16 is the Goldie locks of barrels. 20 is definitely the king of speed and splattering targets. 14.5 is a good do all with the trade-off of range rounds still fragment.
@@harukiri2738 Based on what criteria? Because if we’re being honest, the vast majority of Americans aren’t going to take shots past 100 yards in any “WROL” scenario. If you’re talking shots at 2-400 yards, I don’t think we’re talking about WROL anymore, we’re probably talking about war.
@@echofoxtrotwhiskey1595 the criteria that 55 grain works best out of a 20 Inch barrel. Period. I get what you’re saying, and I agree it’s pretty unlikely that the average American will take a shot past 100, but that also doesn’t automatically make the 11.5 or MK18 any better. What can you accomplish with those that the 20 inch isn’t already doing for you? Obviously they’re better for CQB, but what good is that if you haven’t been training with a team extensively anyways? You’re just gonna die.
@@harukiri2738 If they’re going to die because they have a 10.5, handing them an 20 inch will not change a damn thing. Believe it or not there’s a whole world between room clearing with a team and making 400 yard shots.
@@echofoxtrotwhiskey1595 you didn’t understand what I said. I’m not saying a 20inch won’t get you killed, I’m saying you might as well do a 20inch because you shouldn’t do CQB pretty much at all really. There is literally 0 benefit to doing CQB, which is the only reason someone would have an 10.5-13.9 AR in the first place. You’re right, there is a lot of space between room clearing and 400. In all of those situations the average person would be better off with a 20inch AR with a good optic of their choice. Point blank period.
M16A5 concept rifle built on a 20" Colt AR15A4 musket. My primary ammo is the heavy ammo this rifle likes best, Hornady Frontier 75gr BTHP 5.56, secondary is Federal Lake City M193, I have stacks of this. Also, I have zeros marked on my optic for both of them.
11.5 and 14.5 I buy the 62 fmj AAC for training and the 75 grain AAC black tip for duty use. The 62 grain from PSA is 10 bucks and the 75 grain hollow points are 12.99. Both of which are cheaper than most 55 grain if I walk into a store in the Dayton Ohio area.
Yeah only reason to run a laser is if you use nods and know what you’re doing. You really need one for the emitter when shooting at night. Otherwise useless
"for most of you guys, having the ability to get very tight groups at long range, 500, 600, 700 meters, is gonna be super-important." 🤔 Well.... I'd certainly point out that this would be "mission specific." Where I'm at, you can't see past 100 meters or so, for the trees, buildings, hills, etc. My question for anyone is: where do you live, and what type of WROL scenario are you envisioning, in which you would be engaging at those distances??? Also, I'm an older guy who remembers Katrina very well. When things calmed down, the DOJ came in and launched a massive witch hunt, and basically rounded up *everyone* who ☠ someone, prosecuted them, and threw them in prison. So, the rule in my sewing circle is that unless we have confirmed that actual ☢💣s have detonated on American soil, then we are going to be very judicious in our selection of🎯s. For you younger folks who are scoffing at my words, I strongly recommend that you do some research on what happened after Katrina...
I stocked up about 1200 rounds of Hornady Frontier 5.56 68gr BTHP, quite better long range performance. 16" barrel, with suppressor mount. It shoots 1 1/4" groups at 100 yd 80% I'm still sitting on around 2000 rounds of .223 M193 M855 from 2017/18 when they were 25-30 cpr
14.5 with a RDS/magnifier, and an 18 with a 2-12 and top dot. There is something to be said for a 14.5 as a suppressor host for.a main setup. With that said, every man should have a 'long gun' that's at least 18". I buy bulk 55g of course but also stockpile the 77g AAC OTM when it's on sale.
16” barrel, 1:9 Speer gold dots, then whatever was cheap when they run out But if I have to roll solo I would bring my ar-10. Less ammo but better reach
If it's the 5.56 version, try your zero with some LC M855 and see if the Hornady Frontier 5.56 68gr HPBT will co-zero with it. Now you have good accurate OTM and a good barrier penetrator in another mag. It's what I do. Why not have a bit more capability, right?
If it’s dark outside my MK 18 is my go to, with all the night gimmickry it’s heavy enough without pushing all that weight farther out. If it’s not dark and I’m inside my leaned out 10.3 urgi is my primary. If I need a do all, 16 inch with magnification is my next tier. If I am humpin it in the Boonies , a 4x acog/rmr on a 20 inch is the one i grab.
When its SHTF time it likely will come down to what you already have on hand and what you can trade. If you reload and scrounge scrap lead chances are 'all' of your target ammo is your duty ammo. Also scrap lead will be highly tradable so will brass. Go to any shooting area and if the soil is dry enough sift the berms for scrap lead as spent bullets. Now start collecting all the brass you can find. Guaranteed you'll find a ton of 9mm and 5.56 and thats what people will likely be looking for to trade. Yeah, seriously though...5.56? Why bother with a low power, especially if thats what NATO has - thats what you can expect you'll be getting shot at with - so go with more - an AR-10 in 308 can easily be converted to 358 Winchester with a barrel swap.... if you are looking to 'vaporize' on those head shots lol
I do a little bartering from time to time and everyone wants to trade loaded ammo for brass and I say I'm looking for components I have enough brass I need powder, primers, projectiles if any brass i would need 10mm
11 inch barrel on my pistol upper and 16 inch rifle. It's only 11 because I screwed up the threads and had to cut it a half inch shorter. That being said, the pistol is more of a toy and my 16 inch rifle is the one I'm grabbing if I need it.
I have a bunch of 55gr polymer tip. 240 rds of ADI Sierra Blitzking and 200 rds of Nosler Varmageddon. Ive tested it out of my "10.5 in barrel and it rips water jugs but out of the "20 in that it came with its serously nasty.
I have shorter and longer builds what id like to say id carry is a 16” worst case scenario however reality is ill grab whatever ones closer and im fighting with whatever ammo i have on hand
I keep home defense ammo, zeroing ammo, hunting ammo, and wrol/ammo, that means i have 2 types, premium stuff and war stuff, thats it. I have a 16 inch fn barrel, be passed to son when he graduates if he helps build my new upper 18 inch upper. You must consider your environment, go deer hunting, the distance you feel comfortable shooting a deer at is what you should build your rifle for fighting for. In the east coast mountains the furthest you will engagement is likely 300, get a bolt rifle 308 if you need to reach the hate
I have an 11.5" AR (I'd use 55gr) with an RC2, 20" A1-ish clone, and like a 10.5" 300 BLK. I'd use either the 11.5" or my Tavor. I'll disagree and say 55gr will be plenty fine out of that 11.5" considering the area I'm in. I'm not going to be shooting beyond 300 yards and it would likely be within 100 yards, and in those cases 55 grain out of that barrel at those ranges is fine though obviously not ideal. What I'm trying to figure out is a carry handle optic for that A1-ish rifle. Got a PA 3x on it but the eye relief ain't good so it's jacked way up off bore axis with the mounts and it's AIDS. I can just put a red dot on the carry handle but I'd prefer a bit of magnification.
![GEEK TIMË [OFFICIAL AUDIO]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ry-6RvkH880/mqdefault.jpg)
20inch barrels: turning training ammo into duty ammo since the 70’s
Since the 60's
Everyone out here recommending silly stuff instead of a mediocre 20in barrel and the cheapest dogshit ammo from ammoseek
*60's
😂😂😂
That's why I built my 5.56 with a 20, because I understand Physics.
My favorite quote “Wars are fought and won with sub 300 dollar burnt out ARs and Aks”
You fight with what you got lmao
That's what I fought in Iraq with, iron sights on a 20 inch m16a2 burnt out for sure, that thing rattled it was so loose, but it didn't jam at all.
Ain't that a f****** fact?😂
How about commenting on the DOD's changing policy about the US military able to use lethal force against the American citizens. Being as you're in the military and all. And how about posse comitatus??? Please comment.
Standby for this
Chevron Deference is Unconstitutional. They are cooked 🔥
I too, would like to hear his opinion on this.
all my stuff is 16 or 20 inch barrel with M193 55 grain 556. I never got worked up over real short barrels. I've cleared tight spaces with both with no problem. Thank you for making this video because longer barrels for the majority of people have more pluses than minuses.
For science, Federal Gold Medal Match 69gr out of a 20” is going 2877 fps at the muzzle, same ammo out of a 11.5” is 2410 fps. At 100 yards a 20” barrel has 1018 ft/lbs of energy, the 11.5” has 703 ft/lbs. A 16” barrel at the muzzle is 2709 fps with 896 ft/lbs. Projectile selection is key to be able to dump its energy over various distances. At 100 yards SMK’s punch a clean hole in soft tissue, unless it hits something denser. Federal Fusion 62gr expand and dump energy well past 200 yards when hitting different hydraulic media. Speed and projectile selection are key to effective transfer of energy at the target
In WROL, I'm doing everything I can to avoid CQB and room clearing, so I'm not too worried about using a short barrel. I'd rather get maximum velocity and effectiveness out of a 20 inch barrel than run a 10.5 or 11.5 or whatever.
On Shawn Ryan’s show recently SOB John McPhee spoke about home defense and said that he would never clear his own house because it takes 3 men to do it correctly. He said he has a prepared strongpoint that he can hold with a broom if necessary. The CQB focus is out of control.
@@josbc448 Facts. Room clearing looks sexy on an Instagram or RUclips video in a controlled environment but it's deadly as fuck in practice.
That's my philosophy as well. I have a rifle more for cqb but I do the majority of my training with long to medium range stuff.
Handloading is clutch, I’m sitting on an assload of 77otm for my 16inch and 7.5inch. All from my little Lee loader
20" FNA4 With an A5 stock setup, taken plenty of deer and hogs it doesn't matter what ammo you put in the rifle it drops everything within 300yds.
This should be the pinned comment tbh. The 20 inch velocity is insanely good at killing things in Minecraft
A5 musket is peak M16/AR15.
You shoot fragmenting lead ammo into food you are gonna eat??? 😂
@@RickSanchez167I don't really eat the lungs. Nbd
Oh the lead ammo comment is choice. Thanks for the laugh rick
Plus, they run so well. Soft shooting, very reliable, rounds all land in tidy little pile. M193 and rifle length AR were literally designed for each other.
I have 1 AR. A 16" Ruger ar556 with 18,000 rounds through it. Swapped gas rings often, replaced bolt at 8,000 rounds, shot out the barrel over 6 years of hard use and ended up replacing it with an FN. Finally just ordered my second AR, a BCM 16". The man is the weapon, not the gun.
I have the same rife and I want to upgrade to the bcm
Love this comment.
@@jadenrichardson2195you won’t regret the bcm. I’ve got on with 5k rounds on it or so and it runs like a champ
On a similar vein, put up extra buckshot and rifled slugs. There are inevitably many people in your area that are good guys but normies that own at least a shotgun and probably not much more than a few boxes of clay/bird loads.
Buckshot is very good stuff to have. A scatter gun makes opposition duck.
mk18 in the sheets, mk12 for the streets
Also for my firearm and ammo; either a 20 inch upper from red right hand or the 24inch ar-rpk, both of mine are setup as binary systems - On that note, the 1/9 twist does really well with 40gr-55gr fortscott TUI ammo. the 40gr's are solid copper and chrono out of a 24 inch barrel over 3900 fps
🫡
MK12 for the win!
20 inch Masterrace. Always made me cringe that dudes would see high speed operators with AR pistols and then assume they need an AR pistol as well, with no consideration to their own situation
14.5in suppressed with 77gr OTM is my SHTF setup. I run 77gr in all my ar15s for duty use. M193 is what I train with, back up ammo is several thousand rounds of green tips
Are you me?
same here
same and a spare 16”
I always kinda thought of rifles under 16" as an overpowered submachinegun of sorts.
18" rifle length mpr with 77g otm rnds or hunting ammo has no recoil and is steady and easier to carry
This is actually why I got a .45 for shtf. If I’m stockpiling bulk ammo, it’s probably ball/target ammo, and I’d much rather use .45 ball than 9mm ball. It covers a lot more bases too.
I carry a .45 because they don't make a .46 *boomer noises* 😂
Not a bad take at all my brother, I really appreciate your dumb takes and your good takes, I just love Americans with a voice, I love this 2A community. Keep doing you my friend.
16in Rifle, and who knows what ammo, I got a bit of everything, i think I might try and use the Silvertips first, but who knows, might be the fucking range ammo lol
Healthy discourse is good
@@trench_grenade always my brother!
Love it when trench puts out a video telling me I'm doing the right thing already, we stay winning out here 😎
🫡
I love the A1 lower that PSA came out with. I put a Super42 buffer spring in mine, and a maritime bolt latch, and that's it. My 20" is doing 1.4" with AAC 77s, and 1.2" with 75s, rested. Love it
16' inch 1/8 twist with 62 gr otm and 62 green tip . Most ar's are 16' which I personally think is a good compromise for length and ballistic performance
Colt 20 inch, 77 gr and 62 green tip
Everyone knocks green tip, *until it comes out of the barrel length it was designed for*
@@H_Hold20in barrels make everything duty ammo. It’s a great rifle
@@H_Hold and, if it manages to hit anything.
14.5 Geissele Super Duty with 75 and 77 gr AAC OTM. Maybe not the BEST match grade ammo, but very consistent for the money. Most ARs come with 1/7 twist barrels now, the AAC heavier grain stuff seems like a solid option and can be had for somewhat closer to 55gr range ammo. That being said, 20” is just 👌
But the mk18 looks so cool.
I run a 12.5 with an rc2 mini. For anything serious I'd only use 77s.
14.5 -6.5 Grendal with piston gas system,H2 silent capture buffer with a Giss SD3 G trigger.
I'm looking into building something similar
@@jasonsierchio1167 it kicks,Its snappy on the recoil but it will put a smile on your face..
I run a 16in M4rgery type build with 55gr M193. I prefer M193 over M855 because it has higher muzzle velocity and better terminal performance at the expense of barrier penetration. M193 is also more likely to defeat body armor at close range than 855 because the higher muzzle velocity, surprisingly.
💪
16in with 77gr OTM and some “hypothetical” m855a1 for the armored Minecraft animals
This.
This is why my primary is a Steyr AUG A3 with a 16 inch barrel .. its the size of a MK18 and it hits hard with 55 grain ball out to 300/400 with its 1/9 twist..
Plus is super reliable and balanced
The magic number is 2700FPS. That's the velocity required to do damage and yaw the bullet so it tumbles and causes maximum damage in a body. The shortest barrel length you should ever go with for 5.56 is 12 inches. Good size for a truck gun, but that's it.
In a city or suburban environment,most engagements would probably occur at 200M and under. There are very few spots where you could actually get a clear 400 yard shot without lots of obstructions. Most importantly, you need to be able to identify your target. You don't want to shoot any friendlies. The average person can't shoot over 300 or 400 yards anyways. If you're in a rural environment then yes, a 20inch barrel would be absolutely critical too have.
16 inch and 20 inch barreled rifles don't look tacticool, but they're essential for most applications.
Excellent video Mr Grenade.
The bullet still yaws at any pretty much any velocity.
Yaw doesn't have to do with the velocity. If anything becoming trans sonic will cause it to yaw.
2600 is the velocity to get consistent fragging and breaking of m193's cannelure, and a 10.3 will do that out to about 40-50 yards.
Generally don’t think anyone who gets shot with 55grain isn’t gonna go “thank god they only are using range ammo”
I run a Mark 18 suppressed as my ‘main’ rifle. I dont forsee engaging out past 200-300 yards. I run 62 grain AMax and 82 grain from Badlands. I also have a 13.7 all purpose rifle that can run the 55 grain pretty good, although I mainly use 55 grain to train and thats it.
I didnt choose the Mk 18 based on someone else outlook. This is what works best for my situation. Im not out in the country or rural areas so my needs are met with the Mk18 and premium ammunition.
I have a 16" Daniel Defense V7
55gr M193 for 300 meters and beyond
62g M855 for glow in the darks with armor
That 193 is better for armor...that shit out of a 20in is N A S T Y
Something to consider is the terrain you are in. In dense woods in rough hills you may be limited to 200m max in the winter and far less when everything is green. A light 20" is still super handy in most situations.
20” CL HBAR with RRA carry handle and a Comp M4 on top. The accuracy with the irons is insane with the RIBZ adjustment.
💪
I'm sticking with my 12.5 mid length gas, with a direct thread can that lives on it full time.
Difference in muzzle velocity between 12.5 and 14.5 is minimal, difference in moving that rifle around with a can attached is significant.
Most people aren't going to be engaging threats at 500-600 yards, which is why I've got mine set up with a max point blank zero of 330 meters using my 62gr ammo. Plus my defense ammo and training ammo have very similar flight paths so I don't need to worry about having a wildly different zero
And if engaging at that kind of range, sure 5.56 *can* work, but there's much better options for working at that kind of range
Super short at 12.5
@@trench_grenade The velocity difference between 14.5 and 12.5 is negligible, and it gets me a suppressed rifle with light, red dot and magnifier coming in at 7.5lbs
There's very few situations, even in WROL scenario where you're dealing with engagements beyond 300 meters
I will say the major drawback with a longer barrel on the LR/308 is weight. It just makes it too heavy unless you are on a tripod or lying in wait. It really depends what the 'intended' use will be.... I went to the 16inch barrel on the 308 for the weight reason...I also went 16 inch barrel on my LR/308 build to match up on the 16 in barrel Wilson Combat 358 Winchester barrel I have :)
Ruger MPR...18 INCH Cold hammer forged Heavy barre (1/8 twist)... paired with an upgraded trigger
It’s my go to rifle. 20” PSA Premium FN chrome lined mounted on an M4 lower. Carry handle iron sights. I find in just as fast send even accurate at distance. Do have a prism 3x optic set aside just in case but it sits in my ruck more as a spotting/passive monocular. Red dot goes on the carry handle in low light conditions.
What sold me on this is inspired on the Canadian C7 which they have used for years. The adjustable LOP pays off while wearing a vest.
I have an aero 20inch on a psa clone lower, running with 55gr and 62gr PMC xtac and they come screaming out that barrel and has been pretty reliable over the last 2 years
Xtac is really good for the money
@@CiviTac i started using it, because it was more affordable per box to stock than most 5.56 in my area it the time, turns out i really like it
NIce! I got a 20 inch Aero with a Patriot ordinance lower I'm putting together right now
20" FN with the old school clamshell handguards. Those old school clamshell handguards are super rugged and tough with a minimum of holes to collect mud twigs and leaves. 10:35
Had a squib recently in a faxon, and it held up and didn't hurt us. Broke the bcg, but they warrantee'd it. Barrel upper and lower survived. I would trust my life to Faxon for sure and know they got my back if something breaks
16inch barrel with 77 grain
I run an 11.5 as a primary with a 16 inch as an alternate, because realistic maximum engagement distance in my environment is 300 yards. Anything more and you have to actually seek out that open of an area. 16 and 20 inch barrels are really cool, but suppressing that becomes unwieldy quick. A suppressed 11.5 is still pretty handy and it’s built to be a night fighting rifle anyway.
My 11.5 geissele is also my nightfighting gun. Awesome barrel length for inside 250m. I prefer a 14.5 just because it’s a bit more well rounded but I love them both
Same. I live in New England and immediately outside of the towns you're in woods thick enough that past 75-100 yards the trees overlap to the point that you're not going to sight and hit anything. 14.5 is my primary.
16” from Standard Mfg. because the guy at the store said it was a fantastic gun for a reasonable price. 55 and 62 grain because they are the most plentiful at a reasonable price and they work with the 1:8 rate.
20” rifles are laser beams of death. They make hits easy, and with authority.
I've been hand loading a bunch of 55gr Hornady sps for my shtf ammo. I've got about 700 loaded up now. It's going 3125 out of a 20" and 2900 out of a 16". I get 100 projectiles for $11. I looked at 77gr Sierra's but they cost $25 for 50 projectiles. Maybe once I get 1000 of these loaded up I will load up some 75gr Hornady bthp for my more accurate loads. After some testing I was shooting 1.25" at 100 with them with a scoped 20" and under 6" at 300 with my red dot at 300. I'm one of the poors so i figured I better load my own. I and my cousins use the for our deer loads and we've taken a couple and they leave a tennis ball sized hole shredded through the animal. Usually stops on the ribs on the opposite side. Not optimal but acceptable. For reference a 3006 leaves a softball sized hole and 12 gauge usually blows apart the deer completely and usually only leaves the tail on the ground (just kidding, though I've seen several legs shot off using 12 gauge even with perfect placement... That's like basketball size)
I like that paint job on the rifle!
DD 11.5” suppressed with M193 for home defense and to carry in a vehicle. 16” BCM for everything else.
Agree 100% with all of these points. They are correct. But an 11.5” CAR15 is a vibe.
10.5 300 blackout suppressed with 190gr sub x. Suppressed. 16 inch 5.56 m855 because that’s what it shoots the best, been debating on getting a lightweight 20 inch upper for it
Learn lots from this channel. Love the takes and the feedback. Just picked up BCM 16 upper will match with an Aero lower. Also a stripped DD 16 looking for bedt option lower. Love the take on the 20 inch barrel. Will put on list to work towards.
20", .308 Ar-10. Its the only rifle I have built, its the only one i have training on besides my friends AK.
What ar10 tho
In the right hands with enough training that is one deadly ass rifle
Most of my ammo stash is 55 grain, part of it is 62 grain and a limited amount is 'duty' ammo. "Poor but Proud." Having said that, all but one of my AR's sport a 16" barrel. I finally bought an 'A4 last year and am kicking myself in the butt for not getting one sooner, what a nice weapon. I totally agree with you about barrel length=velocity and would never saddle myself with an AR pistol. Hell, even my 5.56mm AK has an 18" barrel (ZPAP M90). Good video, Sir, subscribed.
10.5 is by the bed with a can and 75 grain bthp. And that’s literally all it’s good for.
My go to is 16 inch also with 75 grain bthp. 16 is a happy medium. Running it with or without a can.
I've got 8½" 9mm AR-9's, 8½" 300 Blackouts,11½" 1-12 twist carbine XM-177E2, 6 M-Forgery's with 16" 1-8 mid-length Gas carbine's, 3 SPR's with 18" rifle Gas and 4 20" rifles from the 601, SP-1, A1, A4. THAT 601 with 1-14" twist and 45gr ballistic tips or hollow points pushing 3,500fps is basically a War Crime. Welcome to our Indian Burial Grounds. Prepare to Die! The best part of being a Civilian is being able to buy the best available and not being stuck with the DOD trash ammo. Barrel length and twist is only a issue with M-193 and M855. Once you get into Premium Hunting and Defense ammo the performance shortcomings of USGI Ball ammo becomes glaring apparent. I love burning GI ball as much as the next Guy but y'all really need some High Performance Expanding ammo. Blitz King, VX, Varmint Grenade are some of my favorites that I have used to kill a lot of Whitetails over the past 35 years.
One thing that people don't consider about 20" barrels is how smooth they recoil. You don't need a c- clamp grip and proper form to drill down on a target, the gun barely moves. A lightweight pencil barrel 20" build is a good option for doing just about anything you need a rifle for
This is true
12.5 223 Hornady softpoints
Next will be a 18.7 from Blackout Defense since they don't make a 20" last I checked.
MY SHTF / GO TO WAR" DO ALL RIFFLE" ....... 14.5 DD M4 BLOCK 2 with ACOG + RMR , DBAL STEINER AND SUREFIRE LIGHT , and also have a DD MK12 20" BARREL FOR LONGER RANGE ENGAGEMENTS, I ALSO PICKED UP A M110 308 20" barrel for spicy engagements , planning on picking up a 50bmg here soon for when we gurrella
20 inch is the chad build
My rifle build is simple, 16 inch barrel with 62grain greentip 5.56x45. I have a simple red dot, angled grip that can be easily swapped for my vertical grip. My red dot sight is also visible with my Nods which is a positive.
*also has a rifle sling
16” and 11.5”….live right at edge of city. If need to go into the city 11.5 fits nice in compact and once out the 16 but I’m with you, a longer barrel is the ticket.
I carried an M16A2 in the USMC in 1996....they worked very well. Shorter barrels IMHO are better for CQB. Otherwise, for outdoor work, 14.5 inch is good, 16 inch is better and 20 inch is best. Love the kitchen talks bro!
The 16 is the Goldie locks of barrels. 20 is definitely the king of speed and splattering targets. 14.5 is a good do all with the trade-off of range rounds still fragment.
I think it really depends on what kind of “WROL” we’re talking about and where to be honest.
Not really. If all you have is 55 grain then the 16-20inch rifle is objectively what you should run.
@@harukiri2738 Based on what criteria? Because if we’re being honest, the vast majority of Americans aren’t going to take shots past 100 yards in any “WROL” scenario. If you’re talking shots at 2-400 yards, I don’t think we’re talking about WROL anymore, we’re probably talking about war.
@@echofoxtrotwhiskey1595 the criteria that 55 grain works best out of a 20
Inch barrel. Period. I get what you’re saying, and I agree it’s pretty unlikely that the average American will take a shot past 100, but that also doesn’t automatically make the 11.5 or MK18 any better. What can you accomplish with those that the 20 inch isn’t already doing for you? Obviously they’re better for CQB, but what good is that if you haven’t been training with a team extensively anyways? You’re just gonna die.
@@harukiri2738 If they’re going to die because they have a 10.5, handing them an 20 inch will not change a damn thing.
Believe it or not there’s a whole world between room clearing with a team and making 400 yard shots.
@@echofoxtrotwhiskey1595 you didn’t understand what I said. I’m not saying a 20inch won’t get you killed, I’m saying you might as well do a 20inch because you shouldn’t do CQB pretty much at all really. There is literally 0 benefit to doing CQB, which is the only reason someone would have an 10.5-13.9 AR in the first place.
You’re right, there is a lot of space between room clearing and 400. In all of those situations the average person would be better off with a 20inch AR with a good optic of their choice. Point blank period.
14.5 pinned. Standard 55gr PMC. That’s what I shoot all the time Don’t change tactics on test day
Not sure I have a favorite. If I had to start all over again, I’d probably pick a 16 inch.
6mm arc, best of both worlds. Not that expensive, and shoots further from a 12.5 than 5.56 does from a 20.
My ADM with 13.9 Criterion barrel is still shooting over 3,000 ft per second with 55 grain. I’m fine with it within 300 meters.
20 inches with 77g🤠
M16A5 concept rifle built on a 20" Colt AR15A4 musket. My primary ammo is the heavy ammo this rifle likes best, Hornady Frontier 75gr BTHP 5.56, secondary is Federal Lake City M193, I have stacks of this. Also, I have zeros marked on my optic for both of them.
Thanks for the video
11.5 and 14.5 I buy the 62 fmj AAC for training and the 75 grain AAC black tip for duty use. The 62 grain from PSA is 10 bucks and the 75 grain hollow points are 12.99. Both of which are cheaper than most 55 grain if I walk into a store in the Dayton Ohio area.
Only downside with a 20 inch barrel is vehicle mobility.
16inch BCM 55 grain with ACOG RMR combo and magpul plastic handguard because running a laser as a civilian is a meme
Yeah only reason to run a laser is if you use nods and know what you’re doing. You really need one for the emitter when shooting at night. Otherwise useless
Laser, yes...white light, no.
@@762M80 why wouldn’t you run a white light?
11.5" suppressed with 77gr OTMs
"for most of you guys, having the ability to get very tight groups at long range, 500, 600, 700 meters, is gonna be super-important." 🤔
Well.... I'd certainly point out that this would be "mission specific." Where I'm at, you can't see past 100 meters or so, for the trees, buildings, hills, etc. My question for anyone is: where do you live, and what type of WROL scenario are you envisioning, in which you would be engaging at those distances???
Also, I'm an older guy who remembers Katrina very well. When things calmed down, the DOJ came in and launched a massive witch hunt, and basically rounded up *everyone* who ☠ someone, prosecuted them, and threw them in prison. So, the rule in my sewing circle is that unless we have confirmed that actual ☢💣s have detonated on American soil, then we are going to be very judicious in our selection of🎯s.
For you younger folks who are scoffing at my words, I strongly recommend that you do some research on what happened after Katrina...
I run a 16" barrel with whatever I can run through it at the time.
I stocked up about 1200 rounds of Hornady Frontier 5.56 68gr BTHP, quite better long range performance. 16" barrel, with suppressor mount. It shoots 1 1/4" groups at 100 yd 80%
I'm still sitting on around 2000 rounds of .223 M193 M855 from 2017/18 when they were 25-30 cpr
M16 A4 was my favorite during GWOT.
Heavy but reliable
14.5 with a RDS/magnifier, and an 18 with a 2-12 and top dot. There is something to be said for a 14.5 as a suppressor host for.a main setup. With that said, every man should have a 'long gun' that's at least 18". I buy bulk 55g of course but also stockpile the 77g AAC OTM when it's on sale.
16” barrel, 1:9
Speer gold dots, then whatever was cheap when they run out
But if I have to roll solo I would bring my ar-10. Less ammo but better reach
18 inch mk12 Forsure OP in the fields of wisco
16 in, frontier 68 gr mostly, ACOG.
If it's the 5.56 version, try your zero with some LC M855 and see if the Hornady Frontier 5.56 68gr HPBT will co-zero with it. Now you have good accurate OTM and a good barrier penetrator in another mag. It's what I do. Why not have a bit more capability, right?
I use the same, it's hotter than PSA's 68-77gr
Your mom called me and told me you didn't paint your charging handle so you're not gonna make it in WROL...
If it’s dark outside my MK 18 is my go to, with all the night gimmickry it’s heavy enough without pushing all that weight farther out. If it’s not dark and I’m inside my leaned out 10.3 urgi is my primary. If I need a do all, 16 inch with magnification is my next tier. If I am humpin it in the Boonies , a 4x acog/rmr on a 20 inch is the one i grab.
Rucking up with ma sks, and Chicom chest rig baybee!!
🫡
When its SHTF time it likely will come down to what you already have on hand and what you can trade. If you reload and scrounge scrap lead chances are 'all' of your target ammo is your duty ammo. Also scrap lead will be highly tradable so will brass. Go to any shooting area and if the soil is dry enough sift the berms for scrap lead as spent bullets. Now start collecting all the brass you can find. Guaranteed you'll find a ton of 9mm and 5.56 and thats what people will likely be looking for to trade. Yeah, seriously though...5.56? Why bother with a low power, especially if thats what NATO has - thats what you can expect you'll be getting shot at with - so go with more - an AR-10 in 308 can easily be converted to 358 Winchester with a barrel swap.... if you are looking to 'vaporize' on those head shots lol
I do a little bartering from time to time and everyone wants to trade loaded ammo for brass and I say I'm looking for components I have enough brass
I need powder, primers, projectiles if any brass i would need 10mm
11 inch barrel on my pistol upper and 16 inch rifle. It's only 11 because I screwed up the threads and had to cut it a half inch shorter. That being said, the pistol is more of a toy and my 16 inch rifle is the one I'm grabbing if I need it.
18” SPR barrel with 55 grain!
Good
Correct, it is 5.56pdw which is all that is needed
10.3 with 77gr IMI razorcore (mk262 clone)
I disagree
@@trench_grenade you are a soldier. You fight. I am civilian. I run away, report back what I saw if I happen to survive
I have a bunch of 55gr polymer tip. 240 rds of ADI Sierra Blitzking and 200 rds of Nosler Varmageddon. Ive tested it out of my "10.5 in barrel and it rips water jugs but out of the "20 in that it came with its serously nasty.
I've always said the Marine Corps got it right with the M16A4 and the Acog back in the day.
@@gator7082 i miss mine. Smoothest shooting rifle i ever shot
USMC M16A5 concept is peak M16/AR15, super smooth and testing showed it was even more reliable.
@@762M80 ill have to look into that one.
I have shorter and longer builds what id like to say id carry is a 16” worst case scenario however reality is ill grab whatever ones closer and im fighting with whatever ammo i have on hand
13.9 with a can. About 20” OAL loaded with 77 grain otm
My better quality barrel is a 16” but I did pick up a 20” that I really enjoy shooting.
20" 1:9 twist paired with M193
11.5 commando and X95 both suppressed w/M855 also AR10 18" w/M80.
Very short
X95 not recommended
M855 doesn't do well out of such short barrels.
I keep home defense ammo, zeroing ammo, hunting ammo, and wrol/ammo, that means i have 2 types, premium stuff and war stuff, thats it. I have a 16 inch fn barrel, be passed to son when he graduates if he helps build my new upper 18 inch upper. You must consider your environment, go deer hunting, the distance you feel comfortable shooting a deer at is what you should build your rifle for fighting for. In the east coast mountains the furthest you will engagement is likely 300, get a bolt rifle 308 if you need to reach the hate
14.5 d defense hits the sweet spot for me. Just little shorter with comp and what not on it but still reaches out
I have been through some sketchy stuff with my fn 14.5
I have an 11.5" AR (I'd use 55gr) with an RC2, 20" A1-ish clone, and like a 10.5" 300 BLK.
I'd use either the 11.5" or my Tavor. I'll disagree and say 55gr will be plenty fine out of that 11.5" considering the area I'm in. I'm not going to be shooting beyond 300 yards and it would likely be within 100 yards, and in those cases 55 grain out of that barrel at those ranges is fine though obviously not ideal.
What I'm trying to figure out is a carry handle optic for that A1-ish rifle. Got a PA 3x on it but the eye relief ain't good so it's jacked way up off bore axis with the mounts and it's AIDS. I can just put a red dot on the carry handle but I'd prefer a bit of magnification.