My son is 9 and Autitic. He is non verbal and wears pullups. Looks a lot like JJ. He is the sweetest, most innocent gift from God. He is completely dependent on love and hugs. He truly needs little more in life. The Bible says, Blessed are the pure of heart for they will meet God. The world really lost a precious gift and the darkness of his killers is all that this world now has. Just so unbelievably sad. Heartbreaking what these animals have done!
My autistic grandson is a wonderful blessing to our family. He is age 7 in pullups too. We couldn't image life without him. Blessing to you and your family! ❤️
the bible is also quoted in this trial used to justify killing, so maybe, let’s all stop using this book for our on devices and stop pretending there is a God. the whole point of this conversation is to introduce some dose of reality.
My theory was that the evidence was so compelling that she could no longer drive her narrative. She’s not in control. I thought that’s what she reacted to. So glad she didn’t get her way but that’s why she pouted the rest of the day. Kudos Judge Boyce.
Her dirty work has been brought out in the light of day. Everyone sees what she has done ..she can’t run and she can’t hide. What a narcissist personality despises the most… She will twist this in her mind .
I think she was playing a game the whole time because she wanted people to think she's mentally fragile and this incompetence a thing where she was put in a hospital for how many months I think that was a game I really do so that she completely incompetent fool the whole thing and when they were showing these pictures of the autopsies and so forth I think she was playing another game pretending she just couldn't face it I think it's all strategically planned she was interested she definitely was in on it and maybe Alex and Chad did the deed but she was in on the planning all this stuff so no forgiveness there no
I think you should evaluate the family of origin. There is something weird about Lori regarding her father ( according to him ) as a spiritual master. Alex was obviously mentally ill, Lori and Alex had an incest type relationship , it seems there was sexual abuse in that family, Lori is clearly a full blown narcissist and maybe psychopath like her brother. Her looks were her currency and now she’s aging. This could have prompted her mid life crisis. 5 husbands reflects her inability to forge relationships and Charles was a provider that travelled away. I think she was incestuous mentally about Colby and he got married and that annoyed her. Tylee was a rival and had her life ahead of her. It’s like the evil queen in Snow White. She’s very very ill. As for Chad that’s another ill family of origin .
She is mental challenged, probably sexual abused by father and brother. She is not a narcissist, she does used her charms and beauty because whoever abused her said she was special and sexuality play a lot as she grew up. She married at age 18, probably to leave her house. Think about it? I know many girls that did that to scape home. Some even went to be prostitutes to make money and support themselves just to not be home, drugs play a factor, alcohol. For Lori is her religious beliefs.
@@joannemurdock7899 William Lagioia, Lori's second husband, is the biological father. Joe Ryan, husband 3, was Lori's husband when Colby was a young child.
Lori’s emotions after Charles was shot were not right! She was angry when Tammy wasn’t shot. I think she cried during the patriarchal blessing from Chad for Alex. She does show emotions when they suit her. No crying for her children is cold. I am glad you visited this topic because I posted on fb we need a shaking my head emoji. I am like Lauren, her not wanting to be there on Tuesday, was because of her actions. She is selfish. Strangers had tears for her kids but not her! I re watched this as I came in at the end because earlier I was listening to the part two of Suzanne. Thank you again.
Yes narcissists (and sociopaths) can cry for themselves. Ruby franke also just proved this. Then there’s that Kristel chick who left her 16 month old baby in a pack n’ play and went on vacation for 11 days. Of course that chikd died, a horrific and slow death (she passed hours before her “mother” came home), and this chick cried in court but only when her parents begged the judge to go easy on her and not when the prosecution went into gruesome detail about what that baby went through.
Lori is faced for the first time with what actually happened to the children. It is easy to distance yourself from a situation if someone else did the job. These images will be with her. And even if she didn’t look - she still heard.
True, although I believe she still believes herself a translated being that will not be held accountable for any action she deemed necessary. Accountable by God, I mean. She likely considers herself persecuted by mankind. A part of me hopes she gets clarity and realizes what she has done. The flip side is she considers all people various levels of dark and she descends into her madness.
Malignant Narcissists don't really feel for the victims - nor face what they've done. They only feel for themselves. You're talking about her like she's a person with a conscience. She's NOT.
A year or so later... watching this and listening to your excellent input!! Thank you both!! ❤ So interesting to watch this as Chad's trial is in process!
Dr Babe is too kind 😂 I think she believed if she was released because she was "so devastated" it might work with the jury for sympathy, she also wishes to control the narrative and her surroundings. She acts childish with folding arms etc.
The psychologist tries to understand mental illness and shows empathy towards Lori. To hear you talk, it is obvious Lori is a sociopath or even a psychopath. She is sick but not criminally insane. I think she used religious delusion as an excuse to justify killing her husband and her kids and to agree for Chad to kill his wife and to gaslight her own brother into doing the killing. She's not criminally insane, just evil. And dangerous to society. She'll hurt anyone who gets in her way.
For money. She wanted to live on Kuala as a rich woman. I don't believe she thinks she's a goddess at all. She's just a greedy , malignant narcissist. None of this happened until Charles hit a rough spot financially. Then Joe died ( suspish) left Lori insurance. ( suspish) and then everyone started getting insured and killed
I think she isn’t, I think she probably was abused as a child, I think Chad took it advantage of her being so needy. Chad is the psychopath, he, like Chris Watts are snakes waiting to someone like Lori to came along. Just because she is smiling that means nothing. Many people are medicated in court. Andrea Yates was a zombie in her trial, she was a nuts case. But she was tried at the time and condemned. Her case was reverse and she was in an institution, to this day she is there. Lori is one person very difficult to understand, but she is not all there. She believes Chads nonsense, sad to say it, but she did.
Lori is one narcisstic piece of work, JJ was too much for her in this stage of her life, going through middle age crisis and searching for her gone youth and that is what got her here .. she cares for no one but Lori
Dr. John is such a sweetheart! I love how willing he is to let emotions be there - whether it was that time his little boy told him how much he loved him, or feeling sadness over how JJ may have died. I wish more men were this accepting of their own emotions. In any case, Dr. John is a gift to the mental health community and the community at large.
Your right about the astral projection part. The only difference would likely be the focal point to " get out" so to speak. Some people use visual cues, such as a sigil. Others have mantras or what a Western group may call Enns. She was not sleeping, she was out. Nobody was home. Could descriptions of her dead children have snapped her out of it for a moment? I would say yes. My guess is that JJ and Tylee we're sealed to her in the Temple. That's eternity and a big warning to her. Those kids are waiting for her. Technically, they could have been near her at that moment. She saw ghosts and could no longer hold her concentration. Good! She harmed children. That makes her ... Well, let's just say doing that attracts the attention of others on the same wavelength who don't like cowards.
@@jerrimenard3092 I don't understand how Lori isn't having more trouble in jail. Cellmates says she dances during the night. I've heard that hair dressers have some clout behind bars and that is Lori's trade but damn...she's a child killer.
People don't seem to understand how totally $#$@#$%ed up Lori is and want something from her that she isn't capable of giving . As Dr. John Says, THIS IS NOT NORMAL. It would like expecting a blind person to see. I don't see the point of getting aggravated over it; it's pointless.
I don’t believe this woman is in denial for one second. She reminds me a lot of my mom. She did to her children what it took for her to free herself and get what she wanted. She is a fully selfish creature, and I hope she gets what she deserves and more.
Agreed. I recognize my own mother in Lori's behavior and thank whomever that a guy like Chad didn't come along at some point because I think my mother would have gotten rid of us too. Lori is a fully selfish creature. Well said.
I think the Cox family has a core reason for both Lori and Alex having mental problems. Neith one of them have empathy for others! Who knows what skeletons are in the closet for both of them being psychotic!!
I’ve been divorced, I’ve had 6 kids, I’ve had many ups and downs in my years stress why’s.. but I lost my daughter 4 years ago, just before jj and Tylee were found, and I’ve never gone down so fast or stayed down for so long… I hope that woman feels every bit of stress she feels.. she’s vile, I’d do anything to breath life back into my child. She is a demon.
@@leighkrady oh my goodness, how awful. Do you know who killed her. Your life must be changed for ever. My mother died but wasn’t killed and that was hard enough.
I had the same reaction to the duct tape during the Casey Anthony trial when the the medical examiner said that the death was a homicide. Duct tape was on the baby’s face. She said there is no reason for such tape to be on the child’s face, except one.
Thank you Dr. John. If Lori truly has narcissistic personality disorder then she left the scene a long time ago. She must have layers and layers of defences holding that psyche together. I can’t wait for Melanie P. to take the stand. What Chad and Lori have done is beyond horrendous. They were not alone. I hope that Melanie P. and others are also held accountable.
I keep wrecking my brain about the culpability of the others. I have such a bad gut feeling about their behaviour being criminal that I really hope for a trial in court in front of a jury to resolve this question for each and every one of them. How much did they know, where does their responsibility end, when were they victims and coerced themselves, are there crimes that they need to be held accountable for? Strong and urging questions to me, personally.
I just want to thank you guys. I’ve followed this since the beginning because Tylee & JJ captured our concerns & hearts. Since we’ve all come to know & love the family, especially Larry & Kay. As someone who’s experienced similar tragedy there are just no words. No words could define or describe the pain, the anger, the deep unwavering ache of loss only rivaled by the need for justice. My heart & prayers are with them & you all. There are parts of the trial that I had to turn away from & at that moment my heart went to the family all the more as they’re all facing it head on. Thank you to Lauren & Dr John for the many labors of love, empathy, kindness, & joining their fight for the truth & justice. You’ve helped their family & us by sharing not just a story but reality with grace & a genuineness we don’t find in the media anymore.
Dr John…I started rewatching Dexter this week and Episode 1 gives the perfect visual to match Lori’s meltdown with Judge Boyce’s ruling for her to stay in court. The first person on Dexter’s table was a child murderer and dexter had recovered the 3 victims buried bodies. The perpetrator was crying and squeezing his eyes shut. Decree said “Open your eyes and look at what you have done”. This was exactly what Lori was doing this past week in court.
I feel if Lori is a psychopath then the stressors wouldn’t be the same for her as well as the fact that she created and caused the death of her husband and children
Lori started dieting at her mother's demand when she was in 11th grade. Her weight became a priority for her. Alex was bringing diet pills from Mexico which police found a bag of full pill bottles. Melanie Gibb also talked about the diet pills with Lori and Alex which may have fueled a drug psychosis. Delusional and grandiose thinking may be driven by amphetamine addiction. I don't believe Lori experienced life in reality the way the average person. She has been running all her life and now her bad acts have her in a cage.
Dr. John, the one thing that I don't understand is that they keep saying that Lori is very fragile and like you say is under a lot of stress or in a stressful situation however she knows enough to get herself together and try and look presentable to the court and public. You would think that if she was so fragile she wouldn't even care of how she looked or even know how pull a outfit together, I think this is also telling.
I've wondered about that. Both of those weak men may have lied to her. You would think that her anger might get through to her what she caused, because I do think it was greatly her idea.
As always thank you both for your professionalism, insight, & authenticity. This is a horrible case but we love Dr. Babe & Mrs. Babe! I hope you 2 get a true "date night" soon. Hugs to you both & this awesome community! 💜
I always hit the like button before I watch, so I don't forget! There's never any doubt on my part that I'm going to get anything other than top notch content from Dr. John & Lauren.😊
Maybe you have already talked about it and I missed it, but I would love to hear your opinion on how jury members in this case (and others where they have to look at/hear horrible testimony, images, videos etc.) will come out of it? Do they get some form of aftercare? If not, should they?
I’ve heard someone say that Lori thrives off of other’s grief, sorrow, etc. and sees that as a weakness and it gives her more power over them. Thoughts on this?
Cults (and even so-called legitimate religious organisations of all kinds) need their followers to be in a place if grief or fear otherwise they wouldn't thrive. They're predators.
Lauren...I am concerned with the horror pics you saw. Please take care of yourself. I wonder if you can have post traumatic stress after something like this.
We didn't even see autopsies in the Chris Watts case but after a year deeply deeply diving into that, so many people did have PTSD in a small way or a big way
100% Lori is the reason. That said, and I do not have sympathy for her at all.. She didn't want to do or see the physical part of the murders. Even though she is evil, she wouldn't expect to see the aftermath of the destruction she caused. I totally agree. The hardened police officers, the coroner, the reporters, the jury, the court staff, etc etc, wouldn't choose to see the aftermath of loris work.. These ppl had no choice. So lori should not either. I feel loris reaction was also defiance. She thinks she can get her own way and has done throughout her life. So closing her eyes was in my mind being somewhat defiant. Basically, I want out. You won't let me leave, so I'm going to act like a child dig in my heals and avoid seeing the rest of the pics.
Lori stated her belief was that she is a translated being that every action would be justified with no accountability. She likely considers herself persecuted by the rest of us mere human beings.
Exactly! She kept telling Colby on the phone how he wasn't there so he didn't know what really happened. Well SHE didn't really know what happened either apparently. Coming face to face with the reality of what you've caused is especially difficult especially if you're a narcissist and psycho.
I honestly have been of the opinion that her deep denial & refusal to help her defense is why she went through the whole competency procedure anyways. It's hard to fathom or see someone just be so rigid & unrelenting in these beliefs. But now I truly think she does believe that what she did was merciful in some twisted way. I think it is very hard to understand her, even in a clinical sense. That's why I thank Dr. John for sticking it to that & not telling us what most probably want to hear about her. I had such a hard time even listening to the audio. I had to shut it off after the description of the pull up diaper on JJ. My 2 year old wears them herself & just imagining someone who raised a baby into a young boy to just so cruelly do all of those things. I even got emotional hearing you describe the courtroom, Lauren. This is such a horrible and difficult case all around. My heart is truly with Kay & Larry to get some sort of relief soon. To think Lori has been victimizing them continuously even to the very end. I truly feel sorry that they had to hear that while being the voice for JJ, the whole way through.
I agree, I have always thought that Lori probably still thinks she's better than all of us so why bother trying to explain her beliefs to anyone, let alone LE or the court. It would be casting pearls before swine, in her not-so-humble opinion.
I can't recall if it was Melanie or Zulema, but one of them said Lori told her that JJ was having continence issues since moving to Rexburg. This (bedwetting) is a common sign in children when exposed to trauma or stress.
Time zone difference is tough to catch a live. Appreciate the update,though! The treatment of the children was horrific and the description in court had us crying.😢 This crime demands the highest punishment allowable.
Thank you, Lauren and John. As you know, my daughter was seriously mentally ill, and I've been raising her four children for nearly 10 years now. If I hadn't recognized her illness, and provided support and encouragement to her, my grandchildren may very well have ended up in the "secret tunnels" in Arizona. If only those close to Lori had stepped up, Charles, Tammy, JJ, and Tylee might could have been saved. Charles tried, 😢 but wasn't acknowledged. I pray God comforts all the family and friends, and even us, as we get through this. Much love 💞.
Agree: Charles tried but wasn’t acknowledged. He tried very hard, he was so desperate, heartbreaking.. police did not help him, they only helped Lori ;(
I really don't think she's bothered by the desecration of her children's bodies. At all. She pouted because she saw people look at her with disgust and contempt. That is why she behaved the way she did. Someone exposed her dirty laundry, the thing she denied doing. She gaslit everyone and it bothers her that everyone sees her for who she is. Nothing she has done suggests she ever cared for those children. They were a source of money to her. Tylee got emancipated early to receive her father's social security payment since he died before he was able to use it. She did the same with JJ. There are too many material reasons for her to do what she did. She and Chad aren't philosophers although the people around them were sucked in. A normal person would have been shaking and crying. I do believe in my bones with all my women's intuition that she is a narcissistic psychopath. In her culture being a wife and mother was the greatest calling she could or would ever achieve. Chad gave her an alternative role, that of a co-cult leader leading the women of the 144k. I absolutely believed they both intended to start a cult Jim Jones style. Having a community of people worshipping and taking orders from her is her utopia. Same as Chad.
With Chad. Remember Lori had already stated that Alex couldn't do anything right by himself after he failed to kill Brandon and Tammy. Chad wanted those children dead and he would have enjoyed getting those children fully under his control.
I absolutely believe that Lori knew exactly what she was doing, when she planned all of these murders and manipulation of everyone around her. Everything she got away with, from batting her eyes at the police when her brother had shot her husband,she began to feel untouchable and the self justification helped her carry out all of this. I think she probably refused to go into the court room not because she cared about the pictures per say but she was for once vulnerable and alone without her minions and she was seeing the reaction of real people(the jury)and didn’t like it one bit. Not all people look at her like CHUD and Melanie GIPP
I think she knew she was going to see these pictures. Her attorneys has told her they would be presented in court. It’s another show it’s the last show she’s gonna be able to give trying to put something else over on other people that it’s broke her heart now bull crap. Any mother, with any love in her heart for a child would never ever ever do something like this. I am a mother of two daughters and I would kill for them if someone ever tried to hurt them without a doubt. She has no mental problems. She knows exactly what she did and she wanted it done. She had her hands in it just as much as Chad, and Alex. Four. or maybe even more people have died because of her sex power and money. I hope she spends the rest of her life in prison and burns in hell for eternity.
We say she was "sleeping" but I believe SHE thought she was doing some astral projection to leave the room. It would align with her history of believing in "portals", performing spiritual practices that involve "leaving her body". Like when she texts her friends and says things like, "I was there with you this morning, did you feel me?" etc
My worst fear was that maybe Tylee and JJ were alive during the brutal and gruesome murders. I prayed and hoped that my instinct was wrong but from seeing how difficult and emotional it was for everybody in the court, my heart goes out to JJ and Tylee. There were other arrangments that could have been arranged for JJ and Tylee to not live with Lori without painfully and brutally killing them. I am sure JJ grandparents would accept JJ and even Tylee with open arms. Thank you Lauren and Dr. John for detailed and professional explanations. Helps to better understand this crazy and brutal murders.
If Lori would have "handed them over" to someone else, she would not have gotten the money from social security meant for the kids! Greed was the reason JJ didn't go to Kay ! (Just my thinking)
I appreciate the time and humanity you two have in the analysis of these gut wrenching events. When I read that Lori had a meltdown in court I kept waiting for a Dr Babe explanation! Incredible job y’all are doing!
How can Lori have any of these stressors except to be in prison? She apparently didn't have stress while all these murders & events were taking place. No stress on Hawaii or when the police approached her about her husband Charles being dead. I understand she had a swimming party that afternoon. Don't know if that was reported correctly. She was totally indifferent to it all. But maybe seeing or at least hearing about those death pics, she's starting to come back to reality. At some point she may even lose complete control of her self & scream it all out of her system. I'm no psychologist but trying to imagine being her,
She's stressed because she can't control the situation. She knows she can't manipulate the jury and narcissists DO get overly stressed when they feel like they're losing control.
Thanks for covering this. It makes sense ( not anything else but her response and what John said about it) I have freeze not fight or flight- because I don’t know how to process stuff if I’m scared. I wondered too if Lori didn’t want to be in the room and for others to be seeing the evidence and looking at her reactions too. Let’s face it- she probably was going to smile and laugh and knew she wasn’t allowed to do that! So maybe shame as you said- But she ( and all the others in this case) are professional at shutting down logic and protecting their reality. Like a toddler with fingers in their ears saying “ I’m not listening I’m not listening “ Anything contradicting their reality they can shut that sh*t down.
I really have contempt for this "explaining sounds like excusing" attitude. There can be no prevention without understanding and no understanding without a solid explanation of contributing factors. Even non-religious people seem to have this very Christian attitude that "evil" (which is an unhelpful concept) appears from the individual, almost like out of a vacuum. It's very much a "the devil made 'em do it" attitude. Given the right environmental factors and a terrible upbringing, anyone can exhibit extreme anti-social behaviour-even you or me. Those having banal moral outrage take primacy over detailed explanations is so unhelpful and worse, it's boring. Obviously, she needs to be punished, and isolated from society-and treated more importantly! But if you want to prevent more Lori Vallows, ya gotta understand why she is the way she is-otherwise you're just flexing your own moral superiority by going after extremely low-hanging fruit. And honestly, the people that do this probably have little knowledge of their own shadow or capacity for malice and are therefore more likely to end up being anti-social because they ignore the darker parts of themselves and believe those tendencies only exist, in any meaningful way, in others-thus laying the groundwork this emotional mold to grow in the dark.
My opinion…Lori has spent a life time surrounding herself only with people who adore her. Who say she is amazing mother, person, church devotee. Those who challenge this she becomes angry and does the “you know me” BS. Yes, we do know you. You have shown us who you are…and I believe you. I think she was mad. The judge told her no. You will sit here, you will listen. I believe this is likely the first time Lori has truly been held accountable where she couldn’t walk away, get a divorce or play the victim with people rallying around saying how wonderful she is. I will say again I keep hearing what a devoted LDS woman she is. Hard for me to understand. And I continue to question how she held a temple recommend.
I understand that Dr John is trained to understand all sides, but wow, this one is hard. How was it merciful to steal her kids’ money? To demand Charles’ life insurance? If she is stressed, it is because she expected to be worshipped and instead she is being viewed with contempt.
Very different scale from chad’s! Lori knows the gig is up! Thats why she wanted out of courtroom. She knows her evil deeds are exposed and is probably ashamed, if thats even possible.
I don't think the murders bother Lori at all--it's not just that they fit in with her fantasy, it's that she was very happy to have all these people dead. The only reality intruding for her is the sudden realization that she might actually (gasp!) be convicted as the jury views the horrible photos. She is not Human enough to have these other realizations--don't give her credit for being more than she is. She doesn't care what she's done & is proud of it. She only wants to get out of jail, be free with Chad, & live her goddess life.
I've lost a child and think that child deaths are quite common, our culture just ignores it. I agree it should be the highest stressor. It's 16 years after my child died and it's still so difficult, but I manage to do much better then I did the first few years. I'm so appreciative of your work!
I was told the first five years of the worst my son's been gone close to seven years and I sometimes wish it was three or four years ago because people don't bring him up anymore and im not ready to just forget him.
Somehow, 'Hidden True Crime' always manages to surpass my expectations. The depth of knowledge-- and the thoughtfulness with which it is applied--is so rare and so appreciated. Thank you so much for what you're offering this community. 👏👏👏
I feel that Lori was sure her "beloved" children were laid down on a bed of roses.......gently....and she, self servingly bought into that utterly false narrative. Also, remember how outraged she was when Alex "missed" and did not shoot Tammy or even Brandon? Part of her court meltdown could have been the realization of what a band of oafs she had doing her bidding. Lori didn't know the gory details because she was happy NOT to know, but reality and fantasy collided hard, in court. Dr. John nailed the fight flight reaction explanation. Also worth noting in Chad's blessing of Alex, Chad references traumas within the Cox family that impacted the siblings.....So Dr. John also appears to be 100% correct that the Cox family is where the trouble originated. Thus Chad giving Lori & Alex fathers dark rating.
No. When people were believed to be " bad spirits" , witches, vampires, they mutilated the bodies and put rocks on their heads before they were buried because they thought that would lock the spirits in and they wouldn't come back. That's what they did to my ancestors centuries ago.
The fact that zulema says they have to be dismembered or buried within 2 minutes of their death could absolutely mean JJ was buried alive they don't know the human body they are doctors. Back in the day people would be buried all the time with even doctors thinking they were dead when they weren't
I'm really enjoying you guys' channel. I heard of it through Mormon Stories awhile back and actually started checking it out with the Murdaugh case. Love your content! Lori's behavior reminds me of my mom who, imo, basically bullied my step-dad into unaliving himself. After his passing she came up with SO many alternative stories as to what happened because she just cannot deal with the reality of it. One guy she supposed killed him cause he reported an engineering error in a satellite they were working on. Another person she supposed killed him because they came out as trans - not sure what that has to do with anything but that was one of her offered explanations. Regardless, it certainly wasn't the years of bullying we'd all told her were unkind and hurtful, because of course in her mind she didn't do that. Narcissists gonna narcissist. Listening to those testimonies was so painful. I can't even imagine seeing the images of those poor kids. It's just heartbreaking to think of what was done to them. Listening to Brandon Boudreaux testify about identifying JJ was awful. The whole thing is just horrific and Lori's shenanigans in court just show how it's still all about her in her mind. Whatever she needs to do to keep the image she has of herself in her head and not actually face what she's done, literally or metaphorically.
Can you answer me this? How about all those others who were in on this crazy thing. Do you think they would need or have to get some professional help processing what they were a part of? I think a normal person would just be so disgusted and ashamed to have been a part of this.
I am so upset for JJ and his loved ones, to think that he was murdered so harshly with no thought to his feelings by people he trusted is beyond sad. There are no words.😢
When I heard Lori petitioned the court to excuse herself from court during the presentation of the graphic photos of her dead and decomposed children, I immediately thought of what I had learned here and thought that what Lori was feeling was shame. I felt it was the same reason Chris Watts pleaded guilty - so he wouldn't have to sit in court and have all the horrid evidence against him paraded before the world for all to see, Neither Chris nor Lori, who are narcissists, do not want anyone to see behind their masks. But that's just my layman's opinion.
Lauren, you and Dr John are amazing to listen to. The amount of time and energy you both have invested into this case helps all of us to better come to grips with the horror of the actions of Lori and Chad, and their minions . Thank you for every sacrifice and the endless hours of work you have given . Both you and Dr John report and dig deeply into these crimes, with such informed and well educated thoughtfulness and humanity. Thank you for all you both do.
I feel so sorry for Colby. Reguardless of the circumstances with his own marital problems, which I do know were not all his fault. His former wife had serious emotional problems herself from her own past abuses. They both were working on them. The Netflix documentary was a catalyst for their relationship, IMO. But Colby has loss so much in such a short time. His entire family. His love and his children to a huge degree. It is all so heartbreaking! Please, Dr. John I hope you can make that effort to reach out to this young man.
Well, gosh, guys, she was being outed as a vicious child killer instead of a golden godess. Make no mistake, that was not about her kids. It's all about how she's being perceived.
Dr. John, you missed one stress reaction, and one that I would consider a go to for typical Lori: Fawn. The fawn reaction is the one that turns Lori sickly sweet with the 'I love you's that are interspersed with her aggression or fight responses. I think fawn has been a way Lori has been able to keep herself safe in many situations, and she is still engaging in it when she is giggling with her defense team, but in this situation it was not going to work... She cannot engage with the witnesses to distract them from their testimony.
I wonder if Colby still says Joseph Ryan molested him. Tylee, supposedly, came to the realization that her dad (JR) did not molest her. According to records, Tylee had been coached to affirm her father’s abuse. Which then proves what horrendous manipulation Lori will use.
I believe seeing the remains of Tylee and JJ, for the first time, is hitting home to Lori. Using tape to cover JJ's mouth must have been to prevent him from crying out. I just pray he was dead when Daybell buried him.
How horrific that monstrous Toad Chad engineered the last moments of those precious children's short lives. Chad enjoyed his power over the vulnerable and used it for his pleasure.
I'm starting to think Lori wasn't on Chad's property or back yard when these horrors were taking place, and maybe she is hearing for the first time how they died? BUT I have known dought Chad was there and at the very minimum supervising with Alex in tow?..
@@mtaylor7307 i totally agree! I have only just learnt that Chad and Lori met and were TOGETHER B4 Charles was.murdered, then it was Tylee JJ Tammy Alex, Justice for Evil Lori and Evil Chad's victims
@@joannemurdock7899 did you hear about Saprena Sharpe? Chad had the Sharpe family move from Connecticut as a pilgrimage to Rexburg to be part of the 144,000. When they got there, Chad told Mrs Sharpe that her husband was going to die in a car accident which was ordained by God so that she could be free to complete her mission this probation. Chad and Lori told her that she was Lori's daughter and Chad's great granddaughter from a prior probation or life. Mrs Sharpe gave police testimony. Mrs Sharpe left the cult and Mr Sharpe is still a live, thankfully. Who knows how far Chad and Lori would have taken this? They would have continued destroying lives until they got caught.
The stress scale is good in theory for normal people but for a narcissist, sociopath, or psychopath, the indicators would be completely different. As we’ve heard we can see Lori dancing on the beach in Hawaii after the kids have just been murdered…. I think her stressors would more likely be… -Getting caught -Looking like a murderer -Not seeing Chad -people hating her -Her crimes being put on display -Going to jail for life -never going to Hawaii again -her family disowning her publicly. Etc…
I'm interested in seeing Janice and Summer's testimony. Idk if we'll hear from Janice in this trial but I think it's safe to assume Summer will testify since Rob Wood mentioned her in his argument regarding who should be considered victims. In the 48 hours interview they were so adamant that Lori would Never could Never hurt her kids. I can only guess how they feel now knowing she not only hurt them but helped and/or condoned their murder but the binding of JJ and total destruction of Tylee's body. I firmly believe Lori is the one who put the blue blanket over JJ. Neither Chad or Alex would have cared to do that. IMO
High stress, yes and no denying that she has mental health problems but she’s been so convincingly calculated in her actions and reactions, that I’m more inclined to believe the speculation that her lawyers, during that break, told her she was doing herself no favors with her lack of appropriate emotion...and that prompted the ‘show’. Just my opinion.
I’m thinking about a past discussion where Lori was smug toward Kay. As if to say you received the life insurance but you lost jj. If she is capable of this then disassociation Is a foreign conclusion.
I have a different take on Chad. He doesn’t believe in the demons & zombies stuff he spews. He wants power. He wants Lori. It’s a means to the end. If he did believe, it wouldn’t only be those in his & Lori’s orbit to get casting & zapped. He has a pretty big following. Were there no demons beyond his group? I believe Alex was on the list to get zapped and that’s why he gave him a blessing. Alex and Lori were emotional and crying because they sincerely cared for Alex. He had been their “warrior” in all the zappings so they could finally be together. I don’t believe Chad or Lori believed in their teachings. They used and manipulated vulnerable people who had insatiable desire to belong to something and to people of importance. Melanie, Melani, and Zulema are also guilty in all the murders. I would even question the death of Joe Ryan. LE were so eager to say Joe, Tammy and Alex were natural deaths. I don’t think so. Look at everything else that occurred.
I feel bad for Colby as he is a victim as well. It is so sad for all the families that have been victimized by these evil people. It is incredible how long, and how many people were killed by this group and to think they almost got away with it.
Thanks HTC for another great video ❤ I don't get to catch many of these live anymore but I am a faithful member of the Re-watch crew❤ I've been following you guys since the channel started and you both should be very proud of what you've accomplished here. I'm a big fan of honest true crime creators who bring the facts to their viewers and don't just put out anything for clicks. Add to that Dr John's analysis and the dynamic between you too and you've got the perfect TC fix
I really feel for you Lauren. I've watched you since the beginning of all this. It definitely looks like it's taken is toll on you mentally. How could you not after all this? Your whole aura has changed. I hope you get some counseling after all this too. It has had to have impacted you. Prayers for you.
Sit there and take it..we all have to take so what's next LOIR NOW BUCK UP ..LOIRRR LOOK SO DUMP 😍 LOIR U HAD THIS DONE SO TELL ME THIS...WHY WHY DID U HAVE THEM KILLL EVERYONE WAS OR IS DEAD..NOW GO TO BED ON THIS LOIRRRR for evernite that u have to be going to bed DREAM DREAM DREAM DO DREAM ABOUT THIS AND ALLL OF THEM DREAM ONNNNNNN LOIR D...SEE U NEVER IAM DONE WITH U ANDY WHAT U HAVE Created...
Of course Chad's children aren't going to be there because they don't want to face the truth. They want to hide behind their own little thought to what has happened and not face reality. Seems familiar
If they went and actually listened....they'd find out a lot about their dad they don't want to admit is true. This case has implicated him as much as Lori....which I'm glad to see
Thanks so much Lauren and John! You are my go to people on this case! I appreciate Dr Johns insights into Loris reactions in the trial this week, xxx from South Australia.
I'm going to go back to therapy.I just have to remember that he isn't afraid now, is not in the process of dying.It's just so brutal and both JJ and Tylee deserved so much better and for Tylee to be 16 and stripped dismembered.I am having a tough time with all of this.Did they joke about her? Humiliated and naked?I feel ill.
My son is 9 and Autitic. He is non verbal and wears pullups. Looks a lot like JJ. He is the sweetest, most innocent gift from God. He is completely dependent on love and hugs. He truly needs little more in life. The Bible says, Blessed are the pure of heart for they will meet God. The world really lost a precious gift and the darkness of his killers is all that this world now has. Just so unbelievably sad. Heartbreaking what these animals have done!
Animals don't treat they're young like that. Demon's do
So beautifully said!
My autistic grandson is a wonderful blessing to our family. He is age 7 in pullups too. We couldn't image life without him. Blessing to you and your family! ❤️
the bible is also quoted in this trial used to justify killing, so maybe, let’s all stop using this book for our on devices and stop pretending there is a God. the whole point of this conversation is to introduce some dose of reality.
My autistic and deaf daughter is now 48, and she is my gift too
My theory was that the evidence was so compelling that she could no longer drive her narrative. She’s not in control. I thought that’s what she reacted to. So glad she didn’t get her way but that’s why she pouted the rest of the day. Kudos Judge Boyce.
Her dirty work has been brought out in the light of day. Everyone sees what she has done ..she can’t run and she can’t hide. What a narcissist personality despises the most… She will twist this in her mind .
I think she was playing a game the whole time because she wanted people to think she's mentally fragile and this incompetence a thing where she was put in a hospital for how many months I think that was a game I really do so that she completely incompetent fool the whole thing and when they were showing these pictures of the autopsies and so forth I think she was playing another game pretending she just couldn't face it I think it's all strategically planned she was interested she definitely was in on it and maybe Alex and Chad did the deed but she was in on the planning all this stuff so no forgiveness there no
I'm thinking when they said Zulema was Raped body dismembered, maybe somthing to do W Kylee
100% about control
Exactly! And she didn’t want to be there, cuz she didn’t want to see what SHE HAD DONE!
I think you should evaluate the family of origin. There is something weird about Lori regarding her father ( according to him ) as a spiritual master. Alex was obviously mentally ill, Lori and Alex had an incest type relationship , it seems there was sexual abuse in that family, Lori is clearly a full blown narcissist and maybe psychopath like her brother. Her looks were her currency and now she’s aging. This could have prompted her mid life crisis. 5 husbands reflects her inability to forge relationships and Charles was a provider that travelled away. I think she was incestuous mentally about Colby and he got married and that annoyed her. Tylee was a rival and had her life ahead of her. It’s like the evil queen in Snow White. She’s very very ill. As for Chad that’s another ill family of origin .
She is mental challenged, probably sexual abused by father and brother. She is not a narcissist, she does used her charms and beauty because whoever abused her said she was special and sexuality play a lot as she grew up. She married at age 18, probably to leave her house. Think about it? I know many girls that did that to scape home. Some even went to be prostitutes to make money and support themselves just to not be home, drugs play a factor, alcohol. For Lori is her religious beliefs.
Who was Colby s Dad?.
@@joannemurdock7899 William Lagioia, Lori's second husband, is the biological father. Joe Ryan, husband 3, was Lori's husband when Colby was a young child.
@@LizStewart1442 oh Thank you
Interesting food for thought.
Lori’s emotions after Charles was shot were not right! She was angry when Tammy wasn’t shot. I think she cried during the patriarchal blessing from Chad for Alex. She does show emotions when they suit her. No crying for her children is cold. I am glad you visited this topic because I posted on fb we need a shaking my head emoji. I am like Lauren, her not wanting to be there on Tuesday, was because of her actions. She is selfish. Strangers had tears for her kids but not her! I re watched this as I came in at the end because earlier I was listening to the part two of Suzanne. Thank you again.
Yes narcissists (and sociopaths) can cry for themselves. Ruby franke also just proved this. Then there’s that Kristel chick who left her 16 month old baby in a pack n’ play and went on vacation for 11 days. Of course that chikd died, a horrific and slow death (she passed hours before her “mother” came home), and this chick cried in court but only when her parents begged the judge to go easy on her and not when the prosecution went into gruesome detail about what that baby went through.
I'm just glad the judge made her stay there and at least she had to listen to what happened to her beautiful childrens bodies. 😔
The judge’s only consideration with regard to her absence was the implications upon appeal.
@@Catfluff521 true .Though to help V.Oakley with it ...she sure did .👊
She wasn't smiling and looking crazy? Lori just pouted cuz she couldn't get her way and the gaslighting ends she'll get over it
Amen💯
JJ was not her child.
Lori is faced for the first time with what actually happened to the children. It is easy to distance yourself from a situation if someone else did the job. These images will be with her. And even if she didn’t look - she still heard.
True, although I believe she still believes herself a translated being that will not be held accountable for any action she deemed necessary. Accountable by God, I mean. She likely considers herself persecuted by mankind. A part of me hopes she gets clarity and realizes what she has done. The flip side is she considers all people various levels of dark and she descends into her madness.
Malignant Narcissists don't really feel for the victims - nor face what they've done. They only feel for themselves. You're talking about her like she's a person with a conscience. She's NOT.
Interesting that it's the visual reality that has struck her. Talk about mind block
Or she was acting!
@@eden_aumakua Yes!
A year or so later... watching this and listening to your excellent input!! Thank you both!! ❤ So interesting to watch this as Chad's trial is in process!
Dr Babe is too kind 😂 I think she believed if she was released because she was "so devastated" it might work with the jury for sympathy, she also wishes to control the narrative and her surroundings. She acts childish with folding arms etc.
Dr. John, I sure hope you do reconnect with Colby and help him. I believe he truly needs someone to help him get through this.
Didnt he just recently get arrested for domestic assault too? I hope he gets the help he needs.
@@thorkagemob1297 Lauren & Dr. John spoke on that - and they said ALL charges were dropped.
@@sarahallenhumboldt2638 also Colby was getting $$ from Tylee.
Yes. We have to have huge compassion for anybody whose lives were impacted by these people. The damage is simply too much to imagine.
@@ChildofGod-g8f yes, I agree!
The psychologist tries to understand mental illness and shows empathy towards Lori. To hear you talk, it is obvious Lori is a sociopath or even a psychopath. She is sick but not criminally insane. I think she used religious delusion as an excuse to justify killing her husband and her kids and to agree for Chad to kill his wife and to gaslight her own brother into doing the killing. She's not criminally insane, just evil. And dangerous to society. She'll hurt anyone who gets in her way.
For money. She wanted to live on Kuala as a rich woman. I don't believe she thinks she's a goddess at all. She's just a greedy , malignant narcissist. None of this happened until Charles hit a rough spot financially. Then Joe died ( suspish) left Lori insurance. ( suspish) and then everyone started getting insured and killed
She has shown most of the characteristics of a psychopath.
I think she isn’t, I think she probably was abused as a child, I think Chad took it advantage of her being so needy. Chad is the psychopath, he, like Chris Watts are snakes waiting to someone like Lori to came along. Just because she is smiling that means nothing. Many people are medicated in court. Andrea Yates was a zombie in her trial, she was a nuts case. But she was tried at the time and condemned. Her case was reverse and she was in an institution, to this day she is there. Lori is one person very difficult to understand, but she is not all there. She believes Chads nonsense, sad to say it, but she did.
yes, exactly. well said
I believe she has killed (or caused to be killed) others.
Lori is one narcisstic piece of work, JJ was too much for her in this stage of her life, going through middle age crisis and searching for her gone youth and that is what got her here .. she cares for no one but Lori
Agree.
Yup
It’s all about Lori and her wants and needs .
@@whiteraven69 and Chad's too
Especially after Tylee and Charles were gone. There was no one left to give the work to.
Dr. John is such a sweetheart! I love how willing he is to let emotions be there - whether it was that time his little boy told him how much he loved him, or feeling sadness over how JJ may have died. I wish more men were this accepting of their own emotions. In any case, Dr. John is a gift to the mental health community and the community at large.
Dr. John is indeed a very compassionate soul.
Portals are a hijacked form of astral projection. Chad taught her to believe she could be somewhere else.
She left the courtroom in her mind.
Had zero choice. I don’t think she’s had to face reality or own her sh*tty behaviours for her whole life.
@@ozzietad666 she seemed to never stop running.
Your right about the astral projection part. The only difference would likely be the focal point to " get out" so to speak. Some people use visual cues, such as a sigil. Others have mantras or what a Western group may call Enns. She was not sleeping, she was out. Nobody was home.
Could descriptions of her dead children have snapped her out of it for a moment? I would say yes. My guess is that JJ and Tylee we're sealed to her in the Temple. That's eternity and a big warning to her.
Those kids are waiting for her. Technically, they could have been near her at that moment. She saw ghosts and could no longer hold her concentration. Good! She harmed children. That makes her ... Well, let's just say doing that attracts the attention of others on the same wavelength who don't like cowards.
@@jerrimenard3092 I don't understand how Lori isn't having more trouble in jail. Cellmates says she dances during the night. I've heard that hair dressers have some clout behind bars and that is Lori's trade but damn...she's a child killer.
People don't seem to understand how totally $#$@#$%ed up Lori is and want something from her that she isn't capable of giving . As Dr. John Says, THIS IS NOT NORMAL. It would like expecting a blind person to see. I don't see the point of getting aggravated over it; it's pointless.
I don’t believe this woman is in denial for one second. She reminds me a lot of my mom. She did to her children what it took for her to free herself and get what she wanted. She is a fully selfish creature, and I hope she gets what she deserves and more.
Yep. You Are On Point! We’re on the same page 🫶
Understand
Agreed. I recognize my own mother in Lori's behavior and thank whomever that a guy like Chad didn't come along at some point because I think my mother would have gotten rid of us too. Lori is a fully selfish creature. Well said.
I think you are so correct.
I think the Cox family has a core reason for both Lori and Alex having mental problems. Neith one of them have empathy for others! Who knows what skeletons are in the closet for both of them being psychotic!!
Spot on! I think you're on to something! 👍
I'm glad Adam Cox moved away and started anew.
I’ve been divorced, I’ve had 6 kids, I’ve had many ups and downs in my years stress why’s.. but I lost my daughter 4 years ago, just before jj and Tylee were found, and I’ve never gone down so fast or stayed down for so long… I hope that woman feels every bit of stress she feels.. she’s vile, I’d do anything to breath life back into my child. She is a demon.
Same here. August 2, 2018, my daughter was murdered. She was 28. I will never be the same. And this monster isn't bothered a bit.
@@leighkrady oh my goodness, how awful. Do you know who killed her. Your life must be changed for ever. My mother died but wasn’t killed and that was hard enough.
I had the same reaction to the duct tape during the Casey Anthony trial when the the medical examiner said that the death was a homicide. Duct tape was on the baby’s face. She said there is no reason for such tape to be on the child’s face, except one.
Thank you Dr. John. If Lori truly has narcissistic personality disorder then she left the scene a long time ago. She must have layers and layers of defences holding that psyche together. I can’t wait for Melanie P. to take the stand. What Chad and Lori have done is beyond horrendous. They were not alone. I hope that Melanie P. and others are also held accountable.
I keep wrecking my brain about the culpability of the others. I have such a bad gut feeling about their behaviour being criminal that I really hope for a trial in court in front of a jury to resolve this question for each and every one of them. How much did they know, where does their responsibility end, when were they victims and coerced themselves, are there crimes that they need to be held accountable for? Strong and urging questions to me, personally.
What would be the reason for MP to take the stand for the prosecution?
She knew what was going on. Alex and Lori were her favourite people.
@@bcoull290 The attempted shooting of her first husband (and questions about the living arrangements when J.J. disappeared).
I just want to thank you guys. I’ve followed this since the beginning because Tylee & JJ captured our concerns & hearts. Since we’ve all come to know & love the family, especially Larry & Kay. As someone who’s experienced similar tragedy there are just no words. No words could define or describe the pain, the anger, the deep unwavering ache of loss only rivaled by the need for justice. My heart & prayers are with them & you all. There are parts of the trial that I had to turn away from & at that moment my heart went to the family all the more as they’re all facing it head on. Thank you to Lauren & Dr John for the many labors of love, empathy, kindness, & joining their fight for the truth & justice. You’ve helped their family & us by sharing not just a story but reality with grace & a genuineness we don’t find in the media anymore.
Dr John…I started rewatching Dexter this week and Episode 1 gives the perfect visual to match Lori’s meltdown with Judge Boyce’s ruling for her to stay in court. The first person on Dexter’s table was a child murderer and dexter had recovered the 3 victims buried bodies. The perpetrator was crying and squeezing his eyes shut. Decree said “Open your eyes and look at what you have done”. This was exactly what Lori was doing this past week in court.
She was distressed bcos she got caught , if she hadn’t been found out she would probably now be working on fresh victims .
True or holidaying at Hawaii
I love the clarity that John always bring to this story. Thank you.
I feel if Lori is a psychopath then the stressors wouldn’t be the same for her as well as the fact that she created and caused the death of her husband and children
Agreed!
Lori started dieting at her mother's demand when she was in 11th grade. Her weight became a priority for her. Alex was bringing diet pills from Mexico which police found a bag of full pill bottles. Melanie Gibb also talked about the diet pills with Lori and Alex which may have fueled a drug psychosis. Delusional and grandiose thinking may be driven by amphetamine addiction. I don't believe Lori experienced life in reality the way the average person. She has been running all her life and now her bad acts have her in a cage.
Absolutely
Dr. John, the one thing that I don't understand is that they keep saying that Lori is very fragile and like you say is under a lot of stress or in a stressful situation however she knows enough to get herself together and try and look presentable to the court and public. You would think that if she was so fragile she wouldn't even care of how she looked or even know how pull a outfit together, I think this is also telling.
I think that day was the first time Lori saw what actually happened to them. I don't think Alex or Chad told her the actual details.
I've wondered about that. Both of those weak men may have lied to her. You would think that her anger might get through to her what she caused, because I do think it was greatly her idea.
I disagree, I absolutely think she knew every detail and participated in it too.
@@river8760 I guess a part of me keeps thinking this woman may have had one iota of concern.
As always thank you both for your professionalism, insight, & authenticity. This is a horrible case but we love Dr. Babe & Mrs. Babe! I hope you 2 get a true "date night" soon. Hugs to you both & this awesome community!
💜
I always hit the like button before I watch, so I don't forget! There's never any doubt on my part that I'm going to get anything other than top notch content from Dr. John & Lauren.😊
I do the same thing!
Me too!
Lori just keeps going on to the next thing , constantly, distracting herself from reflecting on her own behavior. She’s a very sick person .
Maybe you have already talked about it and I missed it, but I would love to hear your opinion on how jury members in this case (and others where they have to look at/hear horrible testimony, images, videos etc.) will come out of it? Do they get some form of aftercare? If not, should they?
I’ve heard someone say that Lori thrives off of other’s grief, sorrow, etc. and sees that as a weakness and it gives her more power over them. Thoughts on this?
Cults (and even so-called legitimate religious organisations of all kinds) need their followers to be in a place if grief or fear otherwise they wouldn't thrive. They're predators.
Narcs. Love other people's uoset!
Great LIVE...Justice for JJ 👟👟 Tylee 👡👡Tammy👠👠and Charles 👞👞
Did she ever mourn her children…after allegedly believing they were zombies? She sure appeared to be living her best life without skipping a beat!
Lauren...I am concerned with the horror pics you saw. Please take care of yourself. I wonder if you can have post traumatic stress after something like this.
We didn't even see autopsies in the Chris Watts case but after a year deeply deeply diving into that, so many people did have PTSD in a small way or a big way
Yes, I could see how hard she was trying not to cry in this vid. I can’t even imagine. 💔
100% Lori is the reason. That said, and I do not have sympathy for her at all.. She didn't want to do or see the physical part of the murders. Even though she is evil, she wouldn't expect to see the aftermath of the destruction she caused. I totally agree. The hardened police officers, the coroner, the reporters, the jury, the court staff, etc etc, wouldn't choose to see the aftermath of loris work.. These ppl had no choice. So lori should not either. I feel loris reaction was also defiance. She thinks she can get her own way and has done throughout her life. So closing her eyes was in my mind being somewhat defiant. Basically, I want out. You won't let me leave, so I'm going to act like a child dig in my heals and avoid seeing the rest of the pics.
Exactly!
🎯 🎯 🎯
She seems like a “How dare you judge me” type of person. That’s what I think she would love to say.
Lori stated her belief was that she is a translated being that every action would be justified with no accountability. She likely considers herself persecuted by the rest of us mere human beings.
She is the most extreme example of "holier-than-thou"
Exactly! She kept telling Colby on the phone how he wasn't there so he didn't know what really happened. Well SHE didn't really know what happened either apparently. Coming face to face with the reality of what you've caused is especially difficult especially if you're a narcissist and psycho.
I honestly have been of the opinion that her deep denial & refusal to help her defense is why she went through the whole competency procedure anyways. It's hard to fathom or see someone just be so rigid & unrelenting in these beliefs. But now I truly think she does believe that what she did was merciful in some twisted way. I think it is very hard to understand her, even in a clinical sense. That's why I thank Dr. John for sticking it to that & not telling us what most probably want to hear about her.
I had such a hard time even listening to the audio. I had to shut it off after the description of the pull up diaper on JJ. My 2 year old wears them herself & just imagining someone who raised a baby into a young boy to just so cruelly do all of those things. I even got emotional hearing you describe the courtroom, Lauren. This is such a horrible and difficult case all around. My heart is truly with Kay & Larry to get some sort of relief soon. To think Lori has been victimizing them continuously even to the very end. I truly feel sorry that they had to hear that while being the voice for JJ, the whole way through.
I had to stop listening at the exact same moment
I agree. She was prob like yeah my kids aren't really dead. They're in a happy place
I mean if those aren't her kids why would she care about seeing their autopsies
I agree, I have always thought that Lori probably still thinks she's better than all of us so why bother trying to explain her beliefs to anyone, let alone LE or the court. It would be casting pearls before swine, in her not-so-humble opinion.
I can't recall if it was Melanie or Zulema, but one of them said Lori told her that JJ was having continence issues since moving to Rexburg. This (bedwetting) is a common sign in children when exposed to trauma or stress.
Thank you Dr. John for explaining and helping us understand Lori. 🙏to Lauren for the heavy emotional up coming week! 💙
Lauren has been such a trooper!
Time zone difference is tough to catch a live. Appreciate the update,though! The treatment of the children was horrific and the description in court had us crying.😢 This crime demands the highest punishment allowable.
The death of a child is off the charts.
Thank you, Lauren and John. As you know, my daughter was seriously mentally ill, and I've been raising her four children for nearly 10 years now. If I hadn't recognized her illness, and provided support and encouragement to her, my grandchildren may very well have ended up in the "secret tunnels" in Arizona. If only those close to Lori had stepped up, Charles, Tammy, JJ, and Tylee might could have been saved. Charles tried, 😢 but wasn't acknowledged. I pray God comforts all the family and friends, and even us, as we get through this. Much love 💞.
Agree: Charles tried but wasn’t acknowledged. He tried very hard, he was so desperate, heartbreaking.. police did not help him, they only helped Lori ;(
I think she is so used to get what she wants, that like an angry child she was having a tantrum.
I really don't think she's bothered by the desecration of her children's bodies. At all. She pouted because she saw people look at her with disgust and contempt. That is why she behaved the way she did. Someone exposed her dirty laundry, the thing she denied doing. She gaslit everyone and it bothers her that everyone sees her for who she is. Nothing she has done suggests she ever cared for those children. They were a source of money to her. Tylee got emancipated early to receive her father's social security payment since he died before he was able to use it. She did the same with JJ. There are too many material reasons for her to do what she did. She and Chad aren't philosophers although the people around them were sucked in. A normal person would have been shaking and crying. I do believe in my bones with all my women's intuition that she is a narcissistic psychopath. In her culture being a wife and mother was the greatest calling she could or would ever achieve. Chad gave her an alternative role, that of a co-cult leader leading the women of the 144k. I absolutely believed they both intended to start a cult Jim Jones style. Having a community of people worshipping and taking orders from her is her utopia. Same as Chad.
On your boyfriends property! No, You are going to be in the room!
She knew her children were killed but I don't think she ever had to see them until that day in court. Her brother killed them.
With Chad. Remember Lori had already stated that Alex couldn't do anything right by himself after he failed to kill Brandon and Tammy. Chad wanted those children dead and he would have enjoyed getting those children fully under his control.
I absolutely believe that Lori knew exactly what she was doing, when she planned all of these murders and manipulation of everyone around her. Everything she got away with, from batting her eyes at the police when her brother had shot her husband,she began to feel untouchable and the self justification helped her carry out all of this. I think she probably refused to go into the court room not because she cared about the pictures per say but she was for once vulnerable and alone without her minions and she was seeing the reaction of real people(the jury)and didn’t like it one bit. Not all people look at her like CHUD and Melanie GIPP
I think she knew she was going to see these pictures. Her attorneys has told her they would be presented in court. It’s another show it’s the last show she’s gonna be able to give trying to put something else over on other people that it’s broke her heart now bull crap. Any mother, with any love in her heart for a child would never ever ever do something like this. I am a mother of two daughters and I would kill for them if someone ever tried to hurt them without a doubt. She has no mental problems. She knows exactly what she did and she wanted it done. She had her hands in it just as much as Chad, and Alex. Four. or maybe even more people have died because of her sex power and money. I hope she spends the rest of her life in prison and burns in hell for eternity.
Lori should be MADE to look at ALL autopsy photos of her dead children, PERIOD!!!
We say she was "sleeping" but I believe SHE thought she was doing some astral projection to leave the room. It would align with her history of believing in "portals", performing spiritual practices that involve "leaving her body". Like when she texts her friends and says things like, "I was there with you this morning, did you feel me?" etc
My worst fear was that maybe Tylee and JJ were alive during the brutal and gruesome murders. I prayed and hoped that my instinct was wrong but from seeing how difficult and emotional it was for everybody in the court, my heart goes out to JJ and Tylee. There were other arrangments that could have been arranged for JJ and Tylee to not live with Lori without painfully and brutally killing them.
I am sure JJ grandparents would accept JJ and even Tylee with open arms.
Thank you Lauren and Dr. John for detailed and professional explanations. Helps to better understand this crazy and brutal murders.
Tammy was suffocated, so I believe Chad or Alex did the same, then went crazy to dispose of the body.
If she had given the children up to someone else, she wouldn’t get the SS money!
If Lori would have "handed them over" to someone else, she would not have gotten the money from social security meant for the kids! Greed was the reason JJ didn't go to Kay ! (Just my thinking)
Exactly. Lori and Chad could easily have given the children to someone else and divorced their spouses, but they wouldn't have got any money that way.
I appreciate the time and humanity you two have in the analysis of these gut wrenching events. When I read that Lori had a meltdown in court I kept waiting for a Dr Babe explanation!
Incredible job y’all are doing!
How can Lori have any of these stressors except to be in prison? She apparently didn't have stress while all these murders & events were taking place. No stress on Hawaii or when the police approached her about her husband Charles being dead. I understand she had a swimming party that afternoon. Don't know if that was reported correctly. She was totally indifferent to it all. But maybe seeing or at least hearing about those death pics, she's starting to come back to reality. At some point she may even lose complete control of her self & scream it all out of her system. I'm no psychologist but trying to imagine being her,
She's stressed because she can't control the situation. She knows she can't manipulate the jury and narcissists DO get overly stressed when they feel like they're losing control.
Fight, flight, or....the freeze! The other roommate in the Idaho 4 case!!!!! Trauma induced! Thank you for explaining!
How convenient for her to face away.
This may be brutal, but I reckon she should be made to face it, with matchsticks in her eyes, if needs be.
Thanks for covering this. It makes sense ( not anything else but her response and what John said about it)
I have freeze not fight or flight- because I don’t know how to process stuff if I’m scared.
I wondered too if Lori didn’t want to be in the room and for others to be seeing the evidence and looking at her reactions too.
Let’s face it- she probably was going to smile and laugh and knew she wasn’t allowed to do that!
So maybe shame as you said-
But she ( and all the others in this case) are professional at shutting down logic and protecting their reality. Like a toddler with fingers in their ears saying “ I’m not listening I’m not listening “
Anything contradicting their reality they can shut that sh*t down.
I really have contempt for this "explaining sounds like excusing" attitude. There can be no prevention without understanding and no understanding without a solid explanation of contributing factors. Even non-religious people seem to have this very Christian attitude that "evil" (which is an unhelpful concept) appears from the individual, almost like out of a vacuum. It's very much a "the devil made 'em do it" attitude. Given the right environmental factors and a terrible upbringing, anyone can exhibit extreme anti-social behaviour-even you or me. Those having banal moral outrage take primacy over detailed explanations is so unhelpful and worse, it's boring. Obviously, she needs to be punished, and isolated from society-and treated more importantly! But if you want to prevent more Lori Vallows, ya gotta understand why she is the way she is-otherwise you're just flexing your own moral superiority by going after extremely low-hanging fruit. And honestly, the people that do this probably have little knowledge of their own shadow or capacity for malice and are therefore more likely to end up being anti-social because they ignore the darker parts of themselves and believe those tendencies only exist, in any meaningful way, in others-thus laying the groundwork this emotional mold to grow in the dark.
Such an excellent opportunity for us to learn from Dr John. Thank you!
My opinion…Lori has spent a life time surrounding herself only with people who adore her. Who say she is amazing mother, person, church devotee. Those who challenge this she becomes angry and does the “you know me” BS. Yes, we do know you. You have shown us who you are…and I believe you. I think she was mad. The judge told her no. You will sit here, you will listen. I believe this is likely the first time Lori has truly been held accountable where she couldn’t walk away, get a divorce or play the victim with people rallying around saying how wonderful she is.
I will say again I keep hearing what a devoted LDS woman she is. Hard for me to understand. And I continue to question how she held a temple recommend.
I understand that Dr John is trained to understand all sides, but wow, this one is hard. How was it merciful to steal her kids’ money? To demand Charles’ life insurance? If she is stressed, it is because she expected to be worshipped and instead she is being viewed with contempt.
❓❓Dr. M
Do you think JJ suffered as a means to get even with Kay and Larry for “taking”Charles’ million dollar life insurance money?
Very different scale from chad’s! Lori knows the gig is up! Thats why she wanted out of courtroom. She knows her evil deeds are exposed and is probably ashamed, if thats even possible.
I don't think the murders bother Lori at all--it's not just that they fit in with her fantasy, it's that she was very happy to have all these people dead. The only reality intruding for her is the sudden realization that she might actually (gasp!) be convicted as the jury views the horrible photos. She is not Human enough to have these other realizations--don't give her credit for being more than she is. She doesn't care what she's done & is proud of it. She only wants to get out of jail, be free with Chad, & live her goddess life.
I've lost a child and think that child deaths are quite common, our culture just ignores it. I agree it should be the highest stressor. It's 16 years after my child died and it's still so difficult, but I manage to do much better then I did the first few years. I'm so appreciative of your work!
Thank you for sharing this and I’m sorry for your loss. ❤
I was told the first five years of the worst my son's been gone close to seven years and I sometimes wish it was three or four years ago because people don't bring him up anymore and im not ready to just forget him.
Dr. John, I so appreciate your educational and empathetic input. I have learned so much more about myself and others because of you
Somehow, 'Hidden True Crime' always manages to surpass my expectations. The depth of knowledge-- and the thoughtfulness with which it is applied--is so rare and so appreciated. Thank you so much for what you're offering this community. 👏👏👏
After listening to this, I’d love to hear Dr John’s take and comparisons with Chad seeing the same images.
I feel that Lori was sure her "beloved" children were laid down on a bed of roses.......gently....and she, self servingly bought into that utterly false narrative. Also, remember how outraged she was when Alex "missed" and did not shoot Tammy or even Brandon? Part of her court meltdown could have been the realization of what a band of oafs she had doing her bidding. Lori didn't know the gory details because she was happy NOT to know, but reality and fantasy collided hard, in court. Dr. John nailed the fight flight reaction explanation. Also worth noting in Chad's blessing of Alex, Chad references traumas within the Cox family that impacted the siblings.....So Dr. John also appears to be 100% correct that the Cox family is where the trouble originated. Thus Chad giving Lori & Alex fathers dark rating.
Chad was darker.
No. When people were believed to be " bad spirits" , witches, vampires, they mutilated the bodies and put rocks on their heads before they were buried because they thought that would lock the spirits in and they wouldn't come back. That's what they did to my ancestors centuries ago.
The fact that zulema says they have to be dismembered or buried within 2 minutes of their death could absolutely mean JJ was buried alive they don't know the human body they are doctors. Back in the day people would be buried all the time with even doctors thinking they were dead when they weren't
I'm really enjoying you guys' channel. I heard of it through Mormon Stories awhile back and actually started checking it out with the Murdaugh case. Love your content!
Lori's behavior reminds me of my mom who, imo, basically bullied my step-dad into unaliving himself. After his passing she came up with SO many alternative stories as to what happened because she just cannot deal with the reality of it. One guy she supposed killed him cause he reported an engineering error in a satellite they were working on. Another person she supposed killed him because they came out as trans - not sure what that has to do with anything but that was one of her offered explanations. Regardless, it certainly wasn't the years of bullying we'd all told her were unkind and hurtful, because of course in her mind she didn't do that. Narcissists gonna narcissist.
Listening to those testimonies was so painful. I can't even imagine seeing the images of those poor kids. It's just heartbreaking to think of what was done to them. Listening to Brandon Boudreaux testify about identifying JJ was awful. The whole thing is just horrific and Lori's shenanigans in court just show how it's still all about her in her mind. Whatever she needs to do to keep the image she has of herself in her head and not actually face what she's done, literally or metaphorically.
Can you answer me this? How about all those others who were in on this crazy thing. Do you think they would need or have to get some professional help processing what they were a part of? I think a normal person would just be so disgusted and ashamed to have been a part of this.
She entered her portal. Or at least was trying.
I am so upset for JJ and his loved ones, to think that he was murdered so harshly with no thought to his feelings by people he trusted is beyond sad. There are no words.😢
When I heard Lori petitioned the court to excuse herself from court during the presentation of the graphic photos of her dead and decomposed children, I immediately thought of what I had learned here and thought that what Lori was feeling was shame. I felt it was the same reason Chris Watts pleaded guilty - so he wouldn't have to sit in court and have all the horrid evidence against him paraded before the world for all to see, Neither Chris nor Lori, who are narcissists, do not want anyone to see behind their masks. But that's just my layman's opinion.
I tend to agree with you.
Lori should have been on lithium and antipsychotics before charles made a plea to the police. Or before her third husband died/ killed
Lauren, you and Dr John are amazing to listen to. The amount of time and energy you both have invested into this case helps all of us to better come to grips with the horror of the actions of Lori and Chad, and their minions . Thank you for every sacrifice and the endless hours of work you have given . Both you and Dr John report and dig deeply into these crimes, with such informed and well educated thoughtfulness and humanity. Thank you for all you both do.
I feel so sorry for Colby. Reguardless of the circumstances with his own marital problems, which I do know were not all his fault. His former wife had serious emotional problems herself from her own past abuses. They both were working on them. The Netflix documentary was a catalyst for their relationship, IMO. But Colby has loss so much in such a short time. His entire family. His love and his children to a huge degree. It is all so heartbreaking! Please, Dr. John I hope you can make that effort to reach out to this young man.
Talking about another case I heard a lawyer say when the jury is crying he can pretty much bet that the defense isn't winning that case
2 of the Murdaugh jurors were crying though … and he still lost (thankfully).
Well, gosh, guys, she was being outed as a vicious child killer instead of a golden godess. Make no mistake, that was not about her kids. It's all about how she's being perceived.
Dr. John, you missed one stress reaction, and one that I would consider a go to for typical Lori: Fawn. The fawn reaction is the one that turns Lori sickly sweet with the 'I love you's that are interspersed with her aggression or fight responses.
I think fawn has been a way Lori has been able to keep herself safe in many situations, and she is still engaging in it when she is giggling with her defense team, but in this situation it was not going to work... She cannot engage with the witnesses to distract them from their testimony.
Hi Lauren , thank you for covering this for all of us ,I’m watching the replay , take care of yourself ( watching from WV)
I wonder if Colby still says Joseph Ryan molested him. Tylee, supposedly, came to the realization that her dad (JR) did not molest her. According to records, Tylee had been coached to affirm her father’s abuse.
Which then proves what horrendous manipulation Lori will use.
I have wondered if Alex was abusing them, not JR. It'd be interesting to know Alex's whereabouts in TX. He tased JR and did jail time.
I believe seeing the remains of Tylee and JJ, for the first time, is hitting home to Lori. Using tape to cover JJ's mouth must have been to prevent him from crying out. I just pray he was dead when Daybell buried him.
How horrific that monstrous Toad Chad engineered the last moments of those precious children's short lives. Chad enjoyed his power over the vulnerable and used it for his pleasure.
I'm starting to think Lori wasn't on Chad's property or back yard when these horrors were taking place, and maybe she is hearing for the first time how they died? BUT I have known dought Chad was there and at the very minimum supervising with Alex in tow?..
@@mtaylor7307 i totally agree! I have only just learnt that Chad and Lori met and were TOGETHER B4 Charles was.murdered, then it was Tylee JJ Tammy Alex, Justice for Evil Lori and Evil Chad's victims
@@joannemurdock7899 did you hear about Saprena Sharpe? Chad had the Sharpe family move from Connecticut as a pilgrimage to Rexburg to be part of the 144,000. When they got there, Chad told Mrs Sharpe that her husband was going to die in a car accident which was ordained by God so that she could be free to complete her mission this probation. Chad and Lori told her that she was Lori's daughter and Chad's great granddaughter from a prior probation or life. Mrs Sharpe gave police testimony. Mrs Sharpe left the cult and Mr Sharpe is still a live, thankfully. Who knows how far Chad and Lori would have taken this? They would have continued destroying lives until they got caught.
@@mtaylor7307 holy crap! 😳
This case has touched me so personally . It is so hard for me to not be angry
Same.. lives were lost from those selfish nutjobs
The stress scale is good in theory for normal people but for a narcissist, sociopath, or psychopath, the indicators would be completely different.
As we’ve heard we can see Lori dancing on the beach in Hawaii after the kids have just been murdered….
I think her stressors would more likely be…
-Getting caught
-Looking like a murderer
-Not seeing Chad
-people hating her
-Her crimes being put on display
-Going to jail for life
-never going to Hawaii again
-her family disowning her publicly.
Etc…
Thank you, very on point. I don’t think he’s even close to what’s going on with Lori . Also she’s all about control .
I'm interested in seeing Janice and Summer's testimony. Idk if we'll hear from Janice in this trial but I think it's safe to assume Summer will testify since Rob Wood mentioned her in his argument regarding who should be considered victims. In the 48 hours interview they were so adamant that Lori would Never could Never hurt her kids. I can only guess how they feel now knowing she not only hurt them but helped and/or condoned their murder but the binding of JJ and total destruction of Tylee's body. I firmly believe Lori is the one who put the blue blanket over JJ. Neither Chad or Alex would have cared to do that. IMO
High stress, yes and no denying that she has mental health problems but she’s been so convincingly calculated in her actions and reactions, that I’m more inclined to believe the speculation that her lawyers, during that break, told her she was doing herself no favors with her lack of appropriate emotion...and that prompted the ‘show’. Just my opinion.
I suspect that you are right. Lori has gone next level with hardened heart. She has zero remorse or empathy.
Thank you, Lauren and Dr. Babe, for keeping us completely informed from Jersey ❤
You too work so darn hard! Love the analyses, makes these types of criminal behavior more understandable.
I’m thinking about a past discussion where Lori was smug toward Kay. As if to say you received the life insurance but you lost jj.
If she is capable of this then disassociation
Is a foreign conclusion.
I googled Colby Ryan and his status on separation or divorce; the info only stated he was separated.
Thanks for sharing this. Perhaps this is the case, and there is no official divorce. I'll try to confirm
I have a different take on Chad. He doesn’t believe in the demons & zombies stuff he spews. He wants power. He wants Lori. It’s a means to the end. If he did believe, it wouldn’t only be those in his & Lori’s orbit to get casting & zapped. He has a pretty big following. Were there no demons beyond his group? I believe Alex was on the list to get zapped and that’s why he gave him a blessing. Alex and Lori were emotional and crying because they sincerely cared for Alex. He had been their “warrior” in all the zappings so they could finally be together. I don’t believe Chad or Lori believed in their teachings. They used and manipulated vulnerable people who had insatiable desire to belong to something and to people of importance. Melanie, Melani, and Zulema are also guilty in all the murders. I would even question the death of Joe Ryan. LE were so eager to say Joe, Tammy and Alex were natural deaths. I don’t think so. Look at everything else that occurred.
I feel bad for Colby as he is a victim as well. It is so sad for all the families that have been victimized by these evil people. It is incredible how long, and how many people were killed by this group and to think they almost got away with it.
Thanks HTC for another great video ❤ I don't get to catch many of these live anymore but I am a faithful member of the Re-watch crew❤ I've been following you guys since the channel started and you both should be very proud of what you've accomplished here. I'm a big fan of honest true crime creators who bring the facts to their viewers and don't just put out anything for clicks. Add to that Dr John's analysis and the dynamic between you too and you've got the perfect TC fix
So, why wasn't Lori killing zombies that had no financial benefit to her? Surely there are lots of "zombies" out there.
I wish the Prosecution would ask this exact question!
I really feel for you Lauren. I've watched you since the beginning of all this. It definitely looks like it's taken is toll on you mentally. How could you not after all this? Your whole aura has changed. I hope you get some counseling after all this too. It has had to have impacted you. Prayers for you.
Sit there and take it..we all have to take so what's next LOIR NOW BUCK UP ..LOIRRR LOOK SO DUMP 😍 LOIR U HAD THIS DONE SO TELL ME THIS...WHY WHY DID U HAVE THEM KILLL EVERYONE WAS OR IS DEAD..NOW GO TO BED ON THIS LOIRRRR for evernite that u have to be going to bed DREAM
DREAM DREAM DO DREAM ABOUT THIS AND ALLL OF THEM DREAM ONNNNNNN LOIR D...SEE U NEVER IAM DONE WITH U ANDY WHAT U HAVE Created...
Of course Chad's children aren't going to be there because they don't want to face the truth. They want to hide behind their own little thought to what has happened and not face reality. Seems familiar
If they went and actually listened....they'd find out a lot about their dad they don't want to admit is true. This case has implicated him as much as Lori....which I'm glad to see
I to thought he was buried alive. Because of the white bag over his head.
Thanks so much Lauren and John! You are my go to people on this case! I appreciate Dr Johns insights into Loris reactions in the trial this week, xxx from South Australia.
I'm going to go back to therapy.I just have to remember that he isn't afraid now, is not in the process of dying.It's just so brutal and both JJ and Tylee deserved so much better and for Tylee to be 16 and stripped dismembered.I am having a tough time with all of this.Did they joke about her? Humiliated and naked?I feel ill.