@@deckzone3000 your mistaken Zenkai Boosts appeared in a bunch more Cell, Boo, Rof, Black, Moro and so on even after they supposedly lost the ability due to age
the main cast of Saiyans doesn’t get any Zenkais any more tho, basically after the Frieza saga. One proof of it is how Dende heals Gohan after getting beat up by Buutenks, but his power doesn’t increase
One of my favorite lines from the English dub came after the sword was broken 😂 Supreme Kai: But...he who masters the sword is supposed to have the greatest power in the universe... Kibito: Wield the sword...and you cannot be rivaled! It's legend!!!!!! Gohan: Huh...oh no! Now it's... the Z Dagger...? 😂😂😂
Wait… that clue 😳😳😳 Supreme Kai: He who *MASTERS* the sword is supposed to have the greatest power in the Universe… The Supreme Kai and Beerus lives were connected for the longest time. Maybe the Supreme Kai heard a Prophecy from the Oracle Fish!?! 😳😳 Maybe Gohan was always made to surpass his father and become the best… the Saiyan Beerus dreamed about… 😳😳
In terms of power scaling, he'd likely be strong enough to apply for a job at FedEx, but probably not quite at the level where he can open the jar of cocktail olives in my fridge.
If Gohan could swirl the sword without any trouble after training, while Goku could swing it with some difficulty, I think that implies that SSJ3 Goku > SSJ2 Gohan > SSJ2 Goku is a somewhat accurate chain.
@@justinarzola4584 They were at first. With the Z sword training however, Gohan got a lot stronger and I think it's fair to imply he was stronger than Goku in equal forms. Gohan can't go SS3, so Goku could still beat him at that point most likely
@@flaco4ever905 Vegeta noticed that gohan had gone soft, staying at the same level or even weaker than the cell fight. Dabura was said to be equal to Super perfect cell. Gohan should’ve been able to easily beat someone equal to cell at that point but he struggled. Vegeta said both himself and goku were superior to gohan’s “prime” ssj2
Gohan at base became stronger than Goku or Vegeta at that point in the story. After becoming Ultimate he became the strongest unfused character of the Buu Saga. He was so strong that Toriyama had to kill him in a really shoddy way to remove him from the story.
Yup and only because they rewrote the story so goku can save everybody because the fans at the time Gohan was meant to take over in between frieza saga and android saga
@@grandpascardstcg Gohan was the main character of dbz, they tried to scratch him out at the very end, id say when Goku came back with the fusion rings and Gohan got absorbed onward.
@@gangstagummybear3432 ya that’s what I was saying lol Well first z was supposed to end with frieza Then they changed it to Gohan and cell Then they changed it again to gohan and buu and then they last minute switched it to goku
@@grandpascardstcg Mike actually made a video about that topic its a misconception that DBZ was supposed to end at the Frieza arc which if you think about really ended on a cliff hanger of not knowing if Goku was alive or not when Namek exploded, It was however supposed to end at the Cell arc, thats why Cell was literally the culmination of every past enemy and the Z fighters together so Gohan could literally and metophorically surpass his Father. Everything after Cell (imo) is just Toriyama and Toyotarou glazing to keep the story going and doesnt have the same narrative oomph as pre-majin buu arc DBZ.
Imagine if they trained against fused fighters to prepare for the next villain. It would be interesting to see Goku train against Gotenks or a Gohan and Vegeta fusion.
@@AdventVFX You're right but it would be interesting to see. I'm surprised that they don't put more emphasis on sparring against each other in the series. We've never seen piccolo vs Vegeta or a older Gohan vs Vegeta.
The initial Evil Fat Buu, as SSJ 2, Gohan might at least have put up a better fight. Somewhere between Majin Vegeta and SSJ 3 Goku, at most, which would likely still have him ultimately overpowered if Buu gets pissed enough.
Truth be told, I think Ultimate Gohan would've been at the same level of strength even without the Z-Sword training. I think the only difference would've been a lack of conditioning before reaching that state. The day or so with the sword put Gohan back into decent shape. Also, the battle with Super Buu wasn't really a battle; it was a straight up spamming of Heavy Attacks that made Buu flinch like a Serene Grace Togekiss spamming Air Slash 😂
Off-topic: you've had a brilliant comeback to the DB sphere these last 2 months. Keep it up! On-topic: per your last thought, I don't think Ultimate Gohan would've been any weaker without the Z-Sword training as that contradicts the concept of unlocking his *full* potential. However, I do believe it's logical to say Elder Kai unlocks his max potential *at his current age-* i.e. at age 25, he has a much higher potential, etc. It makes logical sense too because Gohan is still growing physically, so his ability to harness power would increase until he hits the Saiyan biological peak and enters old age. In that vein, him becoming Blue-tier in DBS makes conceptual sense, even if his jump in power was far too sudden. In that case, I believe in your second theory, that Gohan was just able to have a much better grasp on his Ultimate form because of his training. The series (especially the anime) does show cases where biting off more power than you can chew screws you over: the original Super Saiyan, Goku with Kaioken, Ginyu with Goku's body, Gohan showing a hint of SSJ2 in the RoSaT, etc. Makes logical sense too, which is neat.
@@deckzone3000 Good point, that's inaccurate wording. It's more like Gohan's potential grows as he ages because more time = more power, and his Ultimate form unlocks all the power he would've had if he trained to the max up to that point.
I gotta agree that Goku probably had more difficulty carrying the Z sword cause he wasn't used to it, not specifically strength. Plus, when Goku said "I dunno if he's better than Buu...", the 'I dunno' part's usually used as a form of doubt, Goku didn't want to hurt his son's feelings. In saying that, Gohan definitely did catch up to Goku/Vegeta, and while I don't think he's at their levels, he's close. He was compared to them before the fight with Dabura, which definitely raised his power from the intense fight. After that he fought Buu briefly, and was knocked out, getting another power boost from the fight, and from the Zenkai. Afterwards, Gohan picked up the Z-Sword and trained for 1-2 days, getting much physically stronger from the workout. Going from like, half of Goku/Vegetas power to almost being as strong as them with those few things sounds unrealistic, but not only did Gohan have great potential, but he was also at a higher power level against Cell. It's a lot easier to get back up to a level of strength than it is to reach it for the first time, muscle memory is a real thing and it applies to Gohan here for sure.
I’ve always argued he’s at least back to being strong enough to maintain SS2 again and is back to being superior to Super Perfect Cell and Dabura. And the fact that it only took a day speaks wonders. Makes me wish he could’ve done something like this prior to the tournament and Babadi saga, that way he’d have been more prepared. Maybe his fighting skills would still be a little rusty but with him back at SS2 level, Dabura wouldn’t have stood a chance, and Buu never would’ve gotten enough energy to be released. I know, then there’d be no story. Well, that’s why I say Gohan’s arc(even if it was ditched at the end)is vital to the Buu saga, he had to fall so the threat would be released and he could rise to beat it…until Toriyama said Nah, back to Goku we go.
My personal theory is that in Z, no one is stronger than Ultimate Gohan. Well except Vegito. Kid Buu is actually weaker then Super Buu, except he's essentially knocking on the door of Ultra Instinct, because kid Buu has a fairly one track mind. Goku is only able to beat him due wearing him down, a spirit bomb and a wish to restore him. If Gohan hadn't gotten killed off, he likely could have finished off Kid Buu much quicker.
I agree, Buu needed to absorb Picollo in addition to Gotenks to beat Gohan, and it still took him roughly the entire 30 minutes to do that, he was going for the win too, as from the looks of it, even with Gohan's left over energy after all he did to Gohan, knew Gohan would still be able to whoop him without SSJ3 Gotenk's power
I'd say Super Saiyan 2 Gohan was pretty close to Super Saiyan 3 Goku at this point but wasn't quite at the same level, if Base is 1, Super Saiyan is 50, Super Saiyan 2 is 100 and Super Saiyan 3 is 400 than Gohan's Super Saiyan 2 at this point would be roughly 350 as it's between Super Saiyan 2 and 3 Goku while being close enough to Boos that they had trouble determining if Gohan was stronger instead of outright saying he just wasn't on the same level and there's a possibility of some training with Super Saiyan 3 Goku as well though that's speculation.
I don't think. When Gohan was training with the Z sword, he was shocked by Goku Ssj3 power. Even after the training, his Ssj2 can't be stronger than Goku Ssj3. Goku was shocked by Gohan power only when he went Mystic/Ultimate. I would agree if you say that after the training in his Ssj2 form he was equal or stronger to Ssj2 Goku but not stronger than Ssj3 Goku.
I dunno. This seems like a stretch. I don’t think Gohan swinging a heavy sword around for a day would elevate him up to SSJ2 Goku or Majin Vegeta. The ease of him swinging the Z sword around always just seemed like it was due to practice. This is a real phenomenon. When you first start a new lift or movement, you can add on weight very quickly as you develop a better mind-muscle connection. The language they all use about Gohan being stronger always just seemed like false optimism to me.
But this is the same manga series in which Goku once got a substantial power boost, enough to beat someone who nearly killed him like a day or something prior, by climbing a tower once or twice. Sometimes, the wacky gag martial arts manga logic still creeps up, and I think that’s what they went for here before subverting that with “but actually, the real power up comes from an actual magical god ritual.” It’s basically a reversal of how Goku surpassed Tao years ago, but the implication still seems to be that the fake out “maybe it was actually a strength boost from swinging the sword around” was still valid before revealing what the real power up would be.
Gohan is definitely the strongest un-fused Z-fighter after training with the Z-sword. It's like training with weights or under higher gravity. As he adapts to the sword's weight he gets correspondingly stronger, and can now easily lift and swing something that Goku struggles with. Since SSJ3 is something that can be taught, he should have been able to do it after Goku showed him how. In theory he could have gone on to train himself to use SSJ3 without draining his stamina the way he and Goku did for MSSJ1 and fought Buu like that, but then he would probably still not been strong enough to defeat Super Buu after Evil Buu emerged and ate Fat Boo and even SSJ3 Gokenks would still have been stronger than SSJ3 Gohan. So while they couldn't know it at the time, getting the Ultimate powerup was a better use of the time than mastering SSJ3 since it both made Gohan far stronger than he would have been at SSJ3 even after his Z-sword training and didn't have the stamina drain problem at all.
No way Dabura was as powerful as Super Perfect Cell! He wasn’t even viewed as a threat by Goku or Vegeta other than his spit! They thought of his power as a joke!
Gohans strength vs Kabito is not an outlier. Gohan, Picollo, and the crew couldn't sense their Ki (Manga) and he knew Picollo dropped out against Shin, so he figured he'd be up against as strong as if not a stronger opponent.
@Laughingstock Media Solid choice! One last question for you. I know you've mentioned in videos past that you're a big fan of Yu Yu Hakasho. Have you ever thought of doing some videos for it? I'm guessing the RUclips algorithm wouldn't be as kind with them :(
Yes, I’ve done multiple videos on YYH on my channel and others in the past. I’m currently planning more to come out at some point in the future, along with other anime content.
I don’t think he was comparable to Goku or Vegeta at this point, but he was definitely stronger than his Cell arc self . If he did surpass his rusty level dramatically in 24 hours, imagine how far he would go if he trained with goten and trunks in the hyperbolic time chamber.
I'd say it's implied that he surpassed both of them in Super Saiyan 2. Vegeta took 7 years to surpass Gohan from the Cell arc. Plus with how Goku struggled with the sword compared to Gohan's mastery of the sword when he was done, I feel like that's sort of the cue that he is infact stronger in base form atleast. Ofcourse Goku goes Super Saiyan 3, and it's all over lol
@@Night-gw3oe I mean Gohan needed to be transformed to wield the sword for the first time. He trained in and out of super saiyan to completely master it. Goku wielded the sword without super saiyan and he seemed to be on the same track as Gohan was when he first started to use the sword. Even if Gohan caught up to them, Goku and Vegeta were both still more seasoned than Gohan was because they could fight harder and longer than him. They mastered Ss2. Gohan just knew how to tap into it. He wasn't completely polished. I'd even say after his potential was unlocked, he wasn't as polished as he should have been. Having more power or strength doesn't always guarantee a victory.
@@imjustadog1897 yes he did need to be transformed at first because he was weaker than Goku at that time. Here’s the thing, Gohan’s power increases as a much higher rate than Goku’s when training, which is evident by the training in the time chamber before Cell. Goku and Vegeta have always been more polished and better fighters than Gohan, even back when Gohan fought Cell, and they we weaker than him, they were better fighters. Having more power in DBZ does in most cases guarantee a victory except through the use of hax abilities. The other thing to note is that Goku was not on the same level as Gohan with the sword by the time Gohan was done, not even close. He grows at a rapid rate, he was diet DBS Broly before that was a thing.
@@Night-gw3oe I believe that gohan has insane potential and he can go light years above goku and Vegeta if he puts his mind to it, but one day of training with a super heavy sword isn't the conditioning he needed to be relative to their powers. The sword didn't amp him with mystic/divine energy or anything. It was just heavy. Maybe if it was a few months or a year I'd believe it, but not one day. Even his training with his brother, the fights he had with Dabura and Buu couldn't have boosted him any closer to Goku's or Vegeta's level. Like I said he's likely stronger than his cell arc self, but not yet in Vegeta's or Goku's range. There was a significant gap between Goku and Gohan in the cell arc, but once Gohan stopped training, Goku and Vegeta kept pushing. I'd say Gohan was 3 times stronger than Goku and 6 times that with Ss2. One year of training in the afterlife should have closed the gap between the two. Vegeta witnessed how strong perfected ssj is and the proper way to ascend. I imagined that he regretted not training with future Trunks the same way, but he made it work on his own. If they continued pushing like they did in the android arc and the cell arc for 7 years, they definitely left Gohan in the dust. I'm not saying that Gohan can't close the gap quickly. I'm saying that he needed more than a day to do it. The sword training and that power boost he got from the old kai, didn't really fix the issue with Gohan. He was stronger than them, but not refined enough to last longer than them.
@@imjustadog1897 I mean just look at DBS, Gohan goes from only being able to go Super Saiyan and being arguably more rusty than he was in Z to training with Piccolo for a day and unlocking his ultimate power again and being able to trade blows with Blue Goku. I think you’re overestimating Goku and Vegeta a tad. They were definitely stronger than Gohan from the Cell games, but from the way they speak, it’s not like they were so far ahead of where he was, just that they had surpassed where his power was 7 years ago. I’m not saying it makes sense necessarily, but it’s the character they give the most absurd boosts to in the shortest amount of time… well before Brody and Frieza did what they did atleast
Or how about this: How powerful would Ultimate Gohan have been if he never stopped training? The fact that Gohan was this strong after the Z-Sword training, he probably could have defeated Fat Buu if Goku taught him how to become a ssj3 and I guess that's what they would have done if Elder Kai didn't appear, the only issue being time (having enough time to learn super saiyan 3 before Buu kills everyone and once he becomes Super Buu, things would become more complicated again and Gohan might have needed to use the Hyperbolic Time Chamber). Back to what I was saying before (if Gohan never stopped training), Goku had originally predicted/expected that Gohan should be at least twice as strong as he was against Cell. Now that's not set in stone and Gohan could have turned out to be even more powerful than that or less. But let's say that Gohan did become twice as strong as he was against Cell as a ssj2, that would have made him stronger than Goku and Vegeta as ssj2's for sure, but likely still short of beating out a ssj3 with just ssj2 (although with his potential, you never know). Now if he managed to learn ssj3 he could have easily defeated Fat Buu, if he was still released. If not, then he could have still taken to the Supreme Kai's planet and trained with the Z-Sword and eventually getting his potential unleashed as well. It's hard to say how powerful the Z-Sword training would make him and if that alone would be enough (at least for Fat Buu), but the Potential Unleashed state would probably make him as powerful if not more powerful than Super Buu (Gotenks Absorbed), and if that's the case he could have won that fight and if the fight was drawn out long enough, Gotenks would defused inside of him, making him even weaker. So unless he manages to trick and absorb Gohan, Gohan would probably be the victor.
Id say he very well could be alot closer to ssj3 goku than people want themselves to believe, according to picollo, buu's powerlevel was growing, so every time we saw buu fight someone different, his power had gone up, the fat buu gotenks fought was stronger than the one goku fought, goku never said he was stronger than fat buu, he claimed he might have been able to beat buu, then later he claims he could have, which i think was just akira trying to create a late,"Goku is the strongest" look later in the series, even though it was too late to change what he already wrote in his series. I believe goku said, "i dont know if his power can compare to buus" is because Buu's power isnt that in your face power you can sense, he is kinda like gohan to where buu can get mad and an entirely new powerlevel can surface, so he is saying buus power is hard to guage. And correction, Goku NEVER beat fat Buu, Buu was having fun the entire fight, Goku was mega tired, Buu was even looking forward to fighting the stronger fighters than Goku that Goku told him would be coming in 2 or 4 days.
I think the reason gohan could wield the Z-sword better than kabito is because gohan got a zenkai after buu almost killed him, so gohan was significantly stronger than when he showed off ssj2 at the world martial arts tournament which means gohan was getting stronger the moment he arrived on the supreme kai world
Say what you will about the English Dub... but the music that plays during this scene in the anime when Gohan pulls the Z sword out of the stone is soooo good man.
I'd say his SSJ2 form was equal to, or about 10% stronger than, SSJ2 Goku's form at MOST. Regaining his former power, while aging gives natural growth boost, puts Gohan at quite a disability for current power without training all those years.
I think Gohan at SSj2 after the training would have been somewhere in the ballpark of SSj3 Goku, but somewhat weaker most likely. That's if we keep to the 4x multiplier of SSj3 over SSj2, of course. I think Gohan would be like 2,5-3x SSj2 Goku/Vegeta
I don't think the sword swinging is really as relevant to the scaling. I think it's more of a getting used to it type thing. I'm sure it helped little. Goku didn't seem impressed by Gohan strength.
Everyone complaining about Gohan’s abrupt power jumps in Super and Super Hero with minimal training seem to forget the time he went from trailing way behind Goku to surpassing him in base power by swinging a really heavy sword around for less than a day. Not to mention that Gohan went from a base power level of 2 to nearly 1000 as a borderline toddler by training for less than a year, and went from a fraction of Goku’s power (after Goku also trained for a year with him) to surpassing him in a year as well… at age 10 or 11. So basically… Gohan’s training gains are absurd, and this is just the goofiest example of it.
I always found it ridiculous that someone had to "pull" the Z-sword from that rock cliff, when they could have more easily just destroyed the rock AROUND the sword 🤷♂
Seeing the way Gohan can swing and handle the sword at the end compared to how Goku could, I would wager that at this point, Gohan's base is ALMOST twice as strong as Goku's base. Which would make SS2 Gohan slightly weaker than SS3 Goku. On a side note, with Gohan's base being that strong, I could see Goku teaching him how to achieve SS3 fairly easily, especially since it was never implied that you need to feel rage or experience pain of loss to achieve it. With his base being that much stronger than Goku's, regardless of whether you think it's close or nearing twice as strong, SS3 Gohan at this point would be a menace.
I sort of agree, I’m not sure if his base is quite that strong, but he is definitely stronger than Goku. And I agree that if Gohan learned SS3, he would whoop Goku’s ass. Goku’s only hope at that point is some instant transmission cheap shot, but it’s arguable if that would even do anything as long as Gohan has his guard up.
@Night Yeah, I get you, but idk. He could be that strong. Other things to consider are Goku's comments. Goku had said to Piccolo he was "pretty sure" he could have beaten the first Fat Buu. He wasn't 100% confident that he could, but was pretty confident. Then, after the sword training, he said he was not sure if Gohan could beat Buu. So he showed that he wasn't as confident in Gohan as he was in himself, but he didn't flat out say that he did not think Gohan would win, and I don't think he would be afraid to say that if he was confident Gohan would lose. Some people think he was being nice, but I don't buy that. So, to me, this must mean that SS2 Gohan is pretty close to Goku's SS3. Or even that it is as powerful, but Goku doesn't think Gohan would be able to finish the job due to his demeanor and lesser combat abilities. But, I think it's a combination of the two and SS2 Gohan is slightly weaker than SS3 Goku, but also doesn't have the same grit/abilities that Goku has.
@@lilmac2442im going to agree with you, and then some, i dont think king kai even thought goku could beat buu, he was worried his using ssj3 would drain his time away, thus he wouldnt be able to teach the fusion to goten and trunks, i dont think IF goku could beat buu, it was that he was "toying with" buu, he more than likely would have summoned up some super attack to possibly take him out
Gohan had just received a Zenkai from almost being killed by Buu, as to why he's relative in strength. The training in swords and especially unususl swords like the zeta sword
He probably got a bit more stronger than SSJ2 Majin Vegeta/SSJ2 Goku but not enough to destroy Fat buu. He probably would put up a better fight than initially but he would still lose.
Would of been cool if the cuts the Z sword caused cuts that couldn't be healed. Stopping Buu from Regenerating. Gohan could of unlocked his potential training with Supreme Kai than Killed Buu with the anti healing sword.
Watching or reading Dragon Ball Z when Gohan was training woth the Z-sword must have been a waiting game for that plan to fail. A sword vs a pink jelly monster who can instantly regenerate? I bet there was speculation that the Z-sword would prevent regeneration or something.
Super Saiyan 2 needed a more visually distinct identifier or they should have kept it a Gohan exclusive form as his perfected Super Saiyan. As it stands, it’s kinda hard to tell when they are or aren’t in that state.
Power levels buu arc: Ss2 gohan (pre z sword): 40 Ss2 vegeta (pre majin): 60 Ss2 goku/Ss2 vegeta (majin): 70 Ss2 gohan (post z sword): 75 Evil grey buu: 84 Good buu: 56 Fat majin buu: 140 *Sidenote: movie 10 gohan maintained his training post cell games. But was still no match for broly. Movie 10 power levels: Ssj gohan: 26 Ss2 gohan: 52 Ssj broly: 37 Lssj broly: 105 *
Imagine a Gohan and Vegeta fusion. Call it Beastly Ego Veghan. We need a Gohan fusion. Maybe Toriyama can say that if Goku and Gohan fusion, they are stronger than Vegito because they are blood. Vegeta is my favorite character but Gohan is my 3rd
If Goku’s ssj3 could be felt in otherworld in the Buu arc, how did no one feel when he achieved it during the 7 year time-skip? Supreme Kai didn’t feel it? Vegeta, Gohan, and the others didn’t feel it?
Because realistically Toriyama pulled SSJ3 out of his ass…literally. He came up with concepts and ideas as he went along with DB. At least for Z forward.
Interesting you did a Z Sword video after I asked a question about it on your last one just saying that as long as you’re strong enough anyone can pull the sword.
Lol, Goku spent less than a minute getting used to the Z-sword while Gohan spent a lot more time with it and was even in SSJ1 at one moment. The bias is unreal. Gohan probably re-gained the strength he lost over the 7 years.
Ok so I haven't seen everything yet but, accoring to your, how does zenkai's work video I'd say it must go like this. Gohan is nearly killed by buu, thus, zenkai. Ghoan now equals if not surpassed fat buu. Putting him in his base form at ssj3 goku levels. Then Gohan required ssj2 to pull out the sword so 100x ssj3 hoku levels. Then Gohan in his base can barely lift it. Where as in ssj2, perhaps 1 he could weild it fine. By the time goku arrives there Hohan, in base, is swinging it masterfully. Thus he should be about 50 to 100x stronger in his base form... aka 50 to 100x stronger than ssj3 goku. Then he get's his potential unlocked and it surprised everyone around them. So at least 2x stronger when he goes ultimate. This I do believe disprooves your how do zenkai's work theory but honestly I like to scale him to buu. He could handle super buu but not buutenks. Thus, he is above majin vegeta, and comparable too ssj3 gotenks who was stronger than ssj3 goku. This is not base power though, this is ultimate, aka max power. Elderkai said, "just trying doing that super saiyan thing." Meaning it's him bringing out his full potential. Ssj2 plus rage boosts, but in a controlled manner such as ssj grade 4. His rage boost in the saiyan saga made him 700 times stronger roughly. Thus gohan must have been as heck at the start of this arc.
Future Trunks, after training and dominatin the Z sword, even in SSJ2 couldnt easily defeat Dabura and even required the help of Kaioshin to catch him off guard while charging a finishing move. Why would Gohan do any better than that after same training and likely having very similar results?
The visual diffence is the lighting but he probably has short hair due to the fact he's half human and it grows so either by his own choice or by chichi getting his haircut occasionally. you can also tell the diffrent between 1 and 2 by the spikiness of the two or just the hairstyle
@@TreFKennedy very true on the visually it looks the same. in this scene he went super saiyan 2 both in the manga and in the the anime his hair is very spikey and more "up" than his regular super saiyan form. in the anime lightning is visually shown which is only sown when they are in super saiyan 2 and 3. I want to point out gotenks is the only exception to the not being super saiyan 2 becuase when he went super saiyan, blue lighting was shown, but he wasnt a super saiyan 2. Just like with vegito. The best traits of both fighters creates the "best super saiyan for them" fusion is the peak of their powers multipied to each other.
Haven’t watched the video yet, I’d say at least stronger than Goku base to base at that point as he was swinging the Z sword with much more ease than Goku was.
I'd say he was probably stronger than Goku, base to base, given that Gohan was doing combos with the sword while Goku could barely lift it. Gohan's Super Saiyan 2 would be stronger than Goku's Super Saiyan 2, but Super Saiyan 3 Goku would still be way stronger before Old Kai unleashed Gohan's potential.
Makes you wonder what power Gohan would have reached if he trained non stop in those 7 years. But of course this is not how he was characterized. If he was like his father in attitude he would have been a lot stronger than he was originally.
If Gohan effortlessly handled the Z sword, and Goku struggled with it, that implies that at least in base form Gohan > base Goku. I'd go as far as to say Gohan's Ss2 form was far above Goku's and Vegeta's at this point. His power level at a ss2 was likely right under or around fat boo's level. If he had the ability to transform to ss3 like Goku then he wouldn't had access to the latent potential inside of himself. So at this point, Goku is still stronger only do to the fact that he has one more transformation.
God this arc more of a mess that I remember. Why is there a sword that eclipses all of the entire universe 😭, and than Gohan just sits and gets his potential unlocked. Just so he get plot-lifted to everyone else's level.
Why couldn't supreme kai just destroy the rock surrounding the z sword? I understand there's still the issue of picking it up because it's so unnaturally heavy
Gohan n Piccolo don'SF train be the strongest the plot always helps them 4 e.g Piccolo merged nail then he was the strongest without even training and later on he merged with kami then then he was the strongest without training n Gohan just rages 2 get power like in super hero n Gohan just sat infront of the old kai n was the strongest again that's why I appreciate Vegeta he works hard 4 every thing he gets
Before I watch the video, I'm going to guess he grew stronger by at least 100x. Gohan was barely able to lift the z sword while he was a ssj2. Gohan after the training was casually swinging and flipping the sword around in his base form. Ssj2 is a 100x amp from base, so he should've grew by that much at the very least.
1 day just lugging a heavy sword around. Nah. Goku was still stronger. Goku only had a problem wielding the sword because he was just trying it out, he didn't get use to it. Remember goku fought vegeta, zenkai boost, and spared with buu thus increasing his power. he probably was just as strong as himself when he finished cell or a little bit stronger. It was just a day at the end of the day.
Gohan playing with the z sword is just like goku training with weighs around his legs and arms with khaio before he got his 24hrs permission on earth. Good work out but making gohan on par with goku in just one day by lifting weights seems hard to believe The old kai said it the real power of the sword is him
If I remember correctly SSJ 3 Goku couldve just killed Fat Buu but chose not to, so it would stand to reason that Z Sword Gohan should at least be able to match Fat Buu.
I suppose, if we buy into base Gohan actually surpassing base Goku here, that Gohan not having Super Saiyan 3 would still make Goku’s max power way higher while utilizing that form. And with Buu’s absurdly powerful regeneration, there is no “matching” him. Either you could totally wipe Buu out, or Buu wins in the long run.
The real question is how many other mythical swords existing are actually just poor things or people who pissed off beerus. Lmao *Some fisherman sneezed wrong* and that’s How Atlantis Fell. *Only a trident remains* *Middle century england* some Orc is walking around and tries to bonk the cat god. *Camera cuts to whis shaking his head in shame as he turns the poor dude into a sword that would become The legend Excalibur* *LOL A LITERAL demon just doing it’s own thing happens to eat something that beerus wanted* (And that’s how the Soul calibur Series was born) cap-com just doesn’t want you to know the truth.
Also surviving Buu's blast must have given Gohan a nice zenkai boost
But we dont talk about that ever since namek lol 😂
@@zanzax6438 cell did
@@zanzax6438 I hate zenkai boost, it only shows when is convenient and it's a terrible plot device.
@@deckzone3000 your mistaken Zenkai Boosts appeared in a bunch more Cell, Boo, Rof, Black, Moro and so on even after they supposedly lost the ability due to age
the main cast of Saiyans doesn’t get any Zenkais any more tho, basically after the Frieza saga. One proof of it is how Dende heals Gohan after getting beat up by Buutenks, but his power doesn’t increase
One of my favorite lines from the English dub came after the sword was broken 😂
Supreme Kai: But...he who masters the sword is supposed to have the greatest power in the universe...
Kibito: Wield the sword...and you cannot be rivaled! It's legend!!!!!!
Gohan: Huh...oh no! Now it's... the Z Dagger...?
😂😂😂
🤣🤣🤣
@@deecee9936 get the…. 😌
that was a good one. have a great day.
Lmao
Wait… that clue 😳😳😳
Supreme Kai: He who *MASTERS* the sword is supposed to have the greatest power in the Universe…
The Supreme Kai and Beerus lives were connected for the longest time. Maybe the Supreme Kai heard a Prophecy from the Oracle Fish!?! 😳😳
Maybe Gohan was always made to surpass his father and become the best… the Saiyan Beerus dreamed about… 😳😳
That dagger line cracks me up every time! 😂
Pretty strong, I’d guess.
Power level has got to be at LEAST 1
Yeah id figure
probably a hot take but id say he was probably stronger than he was before the training 🤔
In terms of power scaling, he'd likely be strong enough to apply for a job at FedEx, but probably not quite at the level where he can open the jar of cocktail olives in my fridge.
I’d say probably floor level bare minimum
If Gohan could swirl the sword without any trouble after training, while Goku could swing it with some difficulty, I think that implies that SSJ3 Goku > SSJ2 Gohan > SSJ2 Goku is a somewhat accurate chain.
I thought it stated somewhere that ssj2 goku and ssj2 vegeta were stronger than ssj2 gohan,could be wrong though.
@@justinarzola4584 I think vegeta was referring to SSJ2 Gohan against Cell
@@justinarzola4584 They were at first. With the Z sword training however, Gohan got a lot stronger and I think it's fair to imply he was stronger than Goku in equal forms. Gohan can't go SS3, so Goku could still beat him at that point most likely
@@flaco4ever905 Vegeta noticed that gohan had gone soft, staying at the same level or even weaker than the cell fight. Dabura was said to be equal to Super perfect cell. Gohan should’ve been able to easily beat someone equal to cell at that point but he struggled. Vegeta said both himself and goku were superior to gohan’s “prime” ssj2
@@justinarzola4584 that was before Gohan Started Training with the Sword
Gohan at base became stronger than Goku or Vegeta at that point in the story. After becoming Ultimate he became the strongest unfused character of the Buu Saga. He was so strong that Toriyama had to kill him in a really shoddy way to remove him from the story.
Ive said that for years, so true
Yup and only because they rewrote the story so goku can save everybody because the fans at the time
Gohan was meant to take over in between frieza saga and android saga
@@grandpascardstcg Gohan was the main character of dbz, they tried to scratch him out at the very end, id say when Goku came back with the fusion rings and Gohan got absorbed onward.
@@gangstagummybear3432 ya that’s what I was saying lol
Well first z was supposed to end with frieza
Then they changed it to Gohan and cell
Then they changed it again to gohan and buu and then they last minute switched it to goku
@@grandpascardstcg Mike actually made a video about that topic its a misconception that DBZ was supposed to end at the Frieza arc which if you think about really ended on a cliff hanger of not knowing if Goku was alive or not when Namek exploded, It was however supposed to end at the Cell arc, thats why Cell was literally the culmination of every past enemy and the Z fighters together so Gohan could literally and metophorically surpass his Father.
Everything after Cell (imo) is just Toriyama and Toyotarou glazing to keep the story going and doesnt have the same narrative oomph as pre-majin buu arc DBZ.
@2:29 Gohan says "Just Pull It Out? Where have I heard this before?"
Answer: Videl 😂😂😂😂😂
Imagine if they trained against fused fighters to prepare for the next villain. It would be interesting to see Goku train against Gotenks or a Gohan and Vegeta fusion.
Gohan and vegeta fusion would be cursed
Vegeta would never agree to that
@@AdventVFX You're right but it would be interesting to see. I'm surprised that they don't put more emphasis on sparring against each other in the series. We've never seen piccolo vs Vegeta or a older Gohan vs Vegeta.
The sword training plus surviving dabura and buu probably whipped him back into shape. But he's not stopping buu.
The initial Evil Fat Buu, as SSJ 2, Gohan might at least have put up a better fight. Somewhere between Majin Vegeta and SSJ 3 Goku, at most, which would likely still have him ultimately overpowered if Buu gets pissed enough.
Truth be told, I think Ultimate Gohan would've been at the same level of strength even without the Z-Sword training. I think the only difference would've been a lack of conditioning before reaching that state. The day or so with the sword put Gohan back into decent shape.
Also, the battle with Super Buu wasn't really a battle; it was a straight up spamming of Heavy Attacks that made Buu flinch like a Serene Grace Togekiss spamming Air Slash 😂
this is a great subject. thank you. I'm a huge Gohan fan.
Off-topic: you've had a brilliant comeback to the DB sphere these last 2 months. Keep it up!
On-topic: per your last thought, I don't think Ultimate Gohan would've been any weaker without the Z-Sword training as that contradicts the concept of unlocking his *full* potential. However, I do believe it's logical to say Elder Kai unlocks his max potential *at his current age-* i.e. at age 25, he has a much higher potential, etc. It makes logical sense too because Gohan is still growing physically, so his ability to harness power would increase until he hits the Saiyan biological peak and enters old age. In that vein, him becoming Blue-tier in DBS makes conceptual sense, even if his jump in power was far too sudden.
In that case, I believe in your second theory, that Gohan was just able to have a much better grasp on his Ultimate form because of his training. The series (especially the anime) does show cases where biting off more power than you can chew screws you over: the original Super Saiyan, Goku with Kaioken, Ginyu with Goku's body, Gohan showing a hint of SSJ2 in the RoSaT, etc. Makes logical sense too, which is neat.
@@deckzone3000 Good point, that's inaccurate wording. It's more like Gohan's potential grows as he ages because more time = more power, and his Ultimate form unlocks all the power he would've had if he trained to the max up to that point.
He also trained in ultimate form for the first time in super. That could explain his rapid growth
On a scaled of 1 to 500 Quintillion for how powerful Gohan was after his Z Sword training, I'd rank him around 302,069,319,221,612,900,320.3.
So on a scale from 1 to 5 (rounding down), he'd be a 3
@@dreamcream3738 Maybe.
I gotta agree that Goku probably had more difficulty carrying the Z sword cause he wasn't used to it, not specifically strength. Plus, when Goku said "I dunno if he's better than Buu...", the 'I dunno' part's usually used as a form of doubt, Goku didn't want to hurt his son's feelings.
In saying that, Gohan definitely did catch up to Goku/Vegeta, and while I don't think he's at their levels, he's close. He was compared to them before the fight with Dabura, which definitely raised his power from the intense fight. After that he fought Buu briefly, and was knocked out, getting another power boost from the fight, and from the Zenkai. Afterwards, Gohan picked up the Z-Sword and trained for 1-2 days, getting much physically stronger from the workout.
Going from like, half of Goku/Vegetas power to almost being as strong as them with those few things sounds unrealistic, but not only did Gohan have great potential, but he was also at a higher power level against Cell. It's a lot easier to get back up to a level of strength than it is to reach it for the first time, muscle memory is a real thing and it applies to Gohan here for sure.
I’ve always argued he’s at least back to being strong enough to maintain SS2 again and is back to being superior to Super Perfect Cell and Dabura. And the fact that it only took a day speaks wonders. Makes me wish he could’ve done something like this prior to the tournament and Babadi saga, that way he’d have been more prepared. Maybe his fighting skills would still be a little rusty but with him back at SS2 level, Dabura wouldn’t have stood a chance, and Buu never would’ve gotten enough energy to be released. I know, then there’d be no story. Well, that’s why I say Gohan’s arc(even if it was ditched at the end)is vital to the Buu saga, he had to fall so the threat would be released and he could rise to beat it…until Toriyama said Nah, back to Goku we go.
My personal theory is that in Z, no one is stronger than Ultimate Gohan. Well except Vegito. Kid Buu is actually weaker then Super Buu, except he's essentially knocking on the door of Ultra Instinct, because kid Buu has a fairly one track mind. Goku is only able to beat him due wearing him down, a spirit bomb and a wish to restore him. If Gohan hadn't gotten killed off, he likely could have finished off Kid Buu much quicker.
I agree, Buu needed to absorb Picollo in addition to Gotenks to beat Gohan, and it still took him roughly the entire 30 minutes to do that, he was going for the win too, as from the looks of it, even with Gohan's left over energy after all he did to Gohan, knew Gohan would still be able to whoop him without SSJ3 Gotenk's power
Gohan's pullout game is pretty impressive; able to pullout even when he's got spectators doubting him!
Gohan: "just pull it out" where have I heard that before?
Videl: 😏
I'd say Super Saiyan 2 Gohan was pretty close to Super Saiyan 3 Goku at this point but wasn't quite at the same level, if Base is 1, Super Saiyan is 50, Super Saiyan 2 is 100 and Super Saiyan 3 is 400 than Gohan's Super Saiyan 2 at this point would be roughly 350 as it's between Super Saiyan 2 and 3 Goku while being close enough to Boos that they had trouble determining if Gohan was stronger instead of outright saying he just wasn't on the same level and there's a possibility of some training with Super Saiyan 3 Goku as well though that's speculation.
I don't think. When Gohan was training with the Z sword, he was shocked by Goku Ssj3 power. Even after the training, his Ssj2 can't be stronger than Goku Ssj3. Goku was shocked by Gohan power only when he went Mystic/Ultimate. I would agree if you say that after the training in his Ssj2 form he was equal or stronger to Ssj2 Goku but not stronger than Ssj3 Goku.
I dunno. This seems like a stretch. I don’t think Gohan swinging a heavy sword around for a day would elevate him up to SSJ2 Goku or Majin Vegeta.
The ease of him swinging the Z sword around always just seemed like it was due to practice. This is a real phenomenon. When you first start a new lift or movement, you can add on weight very quickly as you develop a better mind-muscle connection. The language they all use about Gohan being stronger always just seemed like false optimism to me.
But this is the same manga series in which Goku once got a substantial power boost, enough to beat someone who nearly killed him like a day or something prior, by climbing a tower once or twice. Sometimes, the wacky gag martial arts manga logic still creeps up, and I think that’s what they went for here before subverting that with “but actually, the real power up comes from an actual magical god ritual.” It’s basically a reversal of how Goku surpassed Tao years ago, but the implication still seems to be that the fake out “maybe it was actually a strength boost from swinging the sword around” was still valid before revealing what the real power up would be.
Gohan is definitely the strongest un-fused Z-fighter after training with the Z-sword. It's like training with weights or under higher gravity. As he adapts to the sword's weight he gets correspondingly stronger, and can now easily lift and swing something that Goku struggles with. Since SSJ3 is something that can be taught, he should have been able to do it after Goku showed him how. In theory he could have gone on to train himself to use SSJ3 without draining his stamina the way he and Goku did for MSSJ1 and fought Buu like that, but then he would probably still not been strong enough to defeat Super Buu after Evil Buu emerged and ate Fat Boo and even SSJ3 Gokenks would still have been stronger than SSJ3 Gohan. So while they couldn't know it at the time, getting the Ultimate powerup was a better use of the time than mastering SSJ3 since it both made Gohan far stronger than he would have been at SSJ3 even after his Z-sword training and didn't have the stamina drain problem at all.
"Just pull it out...? Where have I heard this before?" I think that was from that one time with Videl when you got too excited.
No way Dabura was as powerful as Super Perfect Cell! He wasn’t even viewed as a threat by Goku or Vegeta other than his spit! They thought of his power as a joke!
Supreme Ki out of context: Gohan, pull it out.
“Just pull it out? Where have I heard that before” from Videl, Gohan, from Videl
Gohans strength vs Kabito is not an outlier. Gohan, Picollo, and the crew couldn't sense their Ki (Manga) and he knew Picollo dropped out against Shin, so he figured he'd be up against as strong as if not a stronger opponent.
DBZ RUclipsrs dissect every little detail in Dragonball no matter how insignificant it is. It’s no hate I love these videos.
This channel is amazing
I like to assume he had the strongest base as well if the all of the Saiyans at that time
I mean, does anyone doubt that if Goku spent just a little bit of time training with the Z Sword he’d be swinging it as effortlessly as Gohan was?
Gohan: "just pull it out....where have I heard this before?"
Announcer: "And thus Pan was conceived!"
Hey Mike! Really glad you came back to RUclips. Question for ya, what is your favorite anime movie? Not just DragonBall. I'm a big fan of Ninja Scroll
Thanks for watching. My favorite anime movie is probably Vampire Hunter D: Bloodlust. Though there are some other contenders.
@Laughingstock Media Solid choice! One last question for you. I know you've mentioned in videos past that you're a big fan of Yu Yu Hakasho. Have you ever thought of doing some videos for it? I'm guessing the RUclips algorithm wouldn't be as kind with them :(
Yes, I’ve done multiple videos on YYH on my channel and others in the past. I’m currently planning more to come out at some point in the future, along with other anime content.
@@LSMMIKE Great news! I appreciate your time and content. Thanks Mike
Thanks for watching, I appreciate it.
I don’t think he was comparable to Goku or Vegeta at this point, but he was definitely stronger than his Cell arc self . If he did surpass his rusty level dramatically in 24 hours, imagine how far he would go if he trained with goten and trunks in the hyperbolic time chamber.
I'd say it's implied that he surpassed both of them in Super Saiyan 2. Vegeta took 7 years to surpass Gohan from the Cell arc. Plus with how Goku struggled with the sword compared to Gohan's mastery of the sword when he was done, I feel like that's sort of the cue that he is infact stronger in base form atleast. Ofcourse Goku goes Super Saiyan 3, and it's all over lol
@@Night-gw3oe I mean Gohan needed to be transformed to wield the sword for the first time. He trained in and out of super saiyan to completely master it. Goku wielded the sword without super saiyan and he seemed to be on the same track as Gohan was when he first started to use the sword. Even if Gohan caught up to them, Goku and Vegeta were both still more seasoned than Gohan was because they could fight harder and longer than him. They mastered Ss2. Gohan just knew how to tap into it. He wasn't completely polished. I'd even say after his potential was unlocked, he wasn't as polished as he should have been. Having more power or strength doesn't always guarantee a victory.
@@imjustadog1897 yes he did need to be transformed at first because he was weaker than Goku at that time. Here’s the thing, Gohan’s power increases as a much higher rate than Goku’s when training, which is evident by the training in the time chamber before Cell. Goku and Vegeta have always been more polished and better fighters than Gohan, even back when Gohan fought Cell, and they we weaker than him, they were better fighters. Having more power in DBZ does in most cases guarantee a victory except through the use of hax abilities. The other thing to note is that Goku was not on the same level as Gohan with the sword by the time Gohan was done, not even close. He grows at a rapid rate, he was diet DBS Broly before that was a thing.
@@Night-gw3oe I believe that gohan has insane potential and he can go light years above goku and Vegeta if he puts his mind to it, but one day of training with a super heavy sword isn't the conditioning he needed to be relative to their powers. The sword didn't amp him with mystic/divine energy or anything. It was just heavy. Maybe if it was a few months or a year I'd believe it, but not one day. Even his training with his brother, the fights he had with Dabura and Buu couldn't have boosted him any closer to Goku's or Vegeta's level. Like I said he's likely stronger than his cell arc self, but not yet in Vegeta's or Goku's range.
There was a significant gap between Goku and Gohan in the cell arc, but once Gohan stopped training, Goku and Vegeta kept pushing. I'd say Gohan was 3 times stronger than Goku and 6 times that with Ss2. One year of training in the afterlife should have closed the gap between the two. Vegeta witnessed how strong perfected ssj is and the proper way to ascend. I imagined that he regretted not training with future Trunks the same way, but he made it work on his own. If they continued pushing like they did in the android arc and the cell arc for 7 years, they definitely left Gohan in the dust.
I'm not saying that Gohan can't close the gap quickly. I'm saying that he needed more than a day to do it. The sword training and that power boost he got from the old kai, didn't really fix the issue with Gohan. He was stronger than them, but not refined enough to last longer than them.
@@imjustadog1897 I mean just look at DBS, Gohan goes from only being able to go Super Saiyan and being arguably more rusty than he was in Z to training with Piccolo for a day and unlocking his ultimate power again and being able to trade blows with Blue Goku. I think you’re overestimating Goku and Vegeta a tad. They were definitely stronger than Gohan from the Cell games, but from the way they speak, it’s not like they were so far ahead of where he was, just that they had surpassed where his power was 7 years ago. I’m not saying it makes sense necessarily, but it’s the character they give the most absurd boosts to in the shortest amount of time… well before Brody and Frieza did what they did atleast
2:30 “where I have heard this before” we know videl had to tell you that a million times gohan lol
Or how about this: How powerful would Ultimate Gohan have been if he never stopped training? The fact that Gohan was this strong after the Z-Sword training, he probably could have defeated Fat Buu if Goku taught him how to become a ssj3 and I guess that's what they would have done if Elder Kai didn't appear, the only issue being time (having enough time to learn super saiyan 3 before Buu kills everyone and once he becomes Super Buu, things would become more complicated again and Gohan might have needed to use the Hyperbolic Time Chamber). Back to what I was saying before (if Gohan never stopped training), Goku had originally predicted/expected that Gohan should be at least twice as strong as he was against Cell. Now that's not set in stone and Gohan could have turned out to be even more powerful than that or less. But let's say that Gohan did become twice as strong as he was against Cell as a ssj2, that would have made him stronger than Goku and Vegeta as ssj2's for sure, but likely still short of beating out a ssj3 with just ssj2 (although with his potential, you never know). Now if he managed to learn ssj3 he could have easily defeated Fat Buu, if he was still released. If not, then he could have still taken to the Supreme Kai's planet and trained with the Z-Sword and eventually getting his potential unleashed as well. It's hard to say how powerful the Z-Sword training would make him and if that alone would be enough (at least for Fat Buu), but the Potential Unleashed state would probably make him as powerful if not more powerful than Super Buu (Gotenks Absorbed), and if that's the case he could have won that fight and if the fight was drawn out long enough, Gotenks would defused inside of him, making him even weaker. So unless he manages to trick and absorb Gohan, Gohan would probably be the victor.
Id say he very well could be alot closer to ssj3 goku than people want themselves to believe, according to picollo, buu's powerlevel was growing, so every time we saw buu fight someone different, his power had gone up, the fat buu gotenks fought was stronger than the one goku fought, goku never said he was stronger than fat buu, he claimed he might have been able to beat buu, then later he claims he could have, which i think was just akira trying to create a late,"Goku is the strongest" look later in the series, even though it was too late to change what he already wrote in his series. I believe goku said, "i dont know if his power can compare to buus" is because Buu's power isnt that in your face power you can sense, he is kinda like gohan to where buu can get mad and an entirely new powerlevel can surface, so he is saying buus power is hard to guage.
And correction, Goku NEVER beat fat Buu, Buu was having fun the entire fight, Goku was mega tired, Buu was even looking forward to fighting the stronger fighters than Goku that Goku told him would be coming in 2 or 4 days.
I think the reason gohan could wield the Z-sword better than kabito is because gohan got a zenkai after buu almost killed him, so gohan was significantly stronger than when he showed off ssj2 at the world martial arts tournament which means gohan was getting stronger the moment he arrived on the supreme kai world
If I'm not mistaken, I recall Gohan saying he got stronger after Kibito healed him from being stabbed by Spopovich.
Say what you will about the English Dub... but the music that plays during this scene in the anime when Gohan pulls the Z sword out of the stone is soooo good man.
I'd say his SSJ2 form was equal to, or about 10% stronger than, SSJ2 Goku's form at MOST. Regaining his former power, while aging gives natural growth boost, puts Gohan at quite a disability for current power without training all those years.
One thing I've been wondering is where did you get your RUclips name from. One would assume that you offer humor. No offense, just asking
Remember Gohan gained strength from carrying the sword so that was its essential key it unlocked his power because of his weight
@@deckzone3000 it was a joke bro
I think Gohan at SSj2 after the training would have been somewhere in the ballpark of SSj3 Goku, but somewhat weaker most likely. That's if we keep to the 4x multiplier of SSj3 over SSj2, of course. I think Gohan would be like 2,5-3x SSj2 Goku/Vegeta
Nice 👍🏻
I don't think the sword swinging is really as relevant to the scaling. I think it's more of a getting used to it type thing. I'm sure it helped little. Goku didn't seem impressed by Gohan strength.
Everyone complaining about Gohan’s abrupt power jumps in Super and Super Hero with minimal training seem to forget the time he went from trailing way behind Goku to surpassing him in base power by swinging a really heavy sword around for less than a day. Not to mention that Gohan went from a base power level of 2 to nearly 1000 as a borderline toddler by training for less than a year, and went from a fraction of Goku’s power (after Goku also trained for a year with him) to surpassing him in a year as well… at age 10 or 11. So basically… Gohan’s training gains are absurd, and this is just the goofiest example of it.
I always found it ridiculous that someone had to "pull" the Z-sword from that rock cliff, when they could have more easily just destroyed the rock AROUND the sword 🤷♂
Seeing the way Gohan can swing and handle the sword at the end compared to how Goku could, I would wager that at this point, Gohan's base is ALMOST twice as strong as Goku's base. Which would make SS2 Gohan slightly weaker than SS3 Goku.
On a side note, with Gohan's base being that strong, I could see Goku teaching him how to achieve SS3 fairly easily, especially since it was never implied that you need to feel rage or experience pain of loss to achieve it. With his base being that much stronger than Goku's, regardless of whether you think it's close or nearing twice as strong, SS3 Gohan at this point would be a menace.
I sort of agree, I’m not sure if his base is quite that strong, but he is definitely stronger than Goku. And I agree that if Gohan learned SS3, he would whoop Goku’s ass. Goku’s only hope at that point is some instant transmission cheap shot, but it’s arguable if that would even do anything as long as Gohan has his guard up.
@Night Yeah, I get you, but idk. He could be that strong. Other things to consider are Goku's comments.
Goku had said to Piccolo he was "pretty sure" he could have beaten the first Fat Buu. He wasn't 100% confident that he could, but was pretty confident. Then, after the sword training, he said he was not sure if Gohan could beat Buu. So he showed that he wasn't as confident in Gohan as he was in himself, but he didn't flat out say that he did not think Gohan would win, and I don't think he would be afraid to say that if he was confident Gohan would lose. Some people think he was being nice, but I don't buy that. So, to me, this must mean that SS2 Gohan is pretty close to Goku's SS3. Or even that it is as powerful, but Goku doesn't think Gohan would be able to finish the job due to his demeanor and lesser combat abilities.
But, I think it's a combination of the two and SS2 Gohan is slightly weaker than SS3 Goku, but also doesn't have the same grit/abilities that Goku has.
@@lilmac2442im going to agree with you, and then some, i dont think king kai even thought goku could beat buu, he was worried his using ssj3 would drain his time away, thus he wouldnt be able to teach the fusion to goten and trunks, i dont think IF goku could beat buu, it was that he was "toying with" buu, he more than likely would have summoned up some super attack to possibly take him out
Gohan had just received a Zenkai from almost being killed by Buu, as to why he's relative in strength. The training in swords and especially unususl swords like the zeta sword
He probably got a bit more stronger than SSJ2 Majin Vegeta/SSJ2 Goku but not enough to destroy Fat buu. He probably would put up a better fight than initially but he would still lose.
Would of been cool if the cuts the Z sword caused cuts that couldn't be healed. Stopping Buu from Regenerating. Gohan could of unlocked his potential training with Supreme Kai than Killed Buu with the anti healing sword.
"Just pull it out"
That's what she said...
Watching or reading Dragon Ball Z when Gohan was training woth the Z-sword must have been a waiting game for that plan to fail.
A sword vs a pink jelly monster who can instantly regenerate? I bet there was speculation that the Z-sword would prevent regeneration or something.
Bro your matrix picture came off the wall!
Super Saiyan 2 needed a more visually distinct identifier or they should have kept it a Gohan exclusive form as his perfected Super Saiyan. As it stands, it’s kinda hard to tell when they are or aren’t in that state.
Not true necessarily.
Love the pull out joke 😂
How Strong Was Future Trunks AFTER The Z Sword Training?
“Oh my me” 😂😂
almost 3 minutes in and mike slides in the sex education joke
this subtle comedy is just based
2:25 That's what she said.
Power levels buu arc:
Ss2 gohan (pre z sword): 40
Ss2 vegeta (pre majin): 60
Ss2 goku/Ss2 vegeta (majin): 70
Ss2 gohan (post z sword): 75
Evil grey buu: 84
Good buu: 56
Fat majin buu: 140
*Sidenote: movie 10 gohan maintained his training post cell games. But was still no match for broly.
Movie 10 power levels:
Ssj gohan: 26
Ss2 gohan: 52
Ssj broly: 37
Lssj broly: 105
*
Imagine a Gohan and Vegeta fusion. Call it Beastly Ego Veghan. We need a Gohan fusion. Maybe Toriyama can say that if Goku and Gohan fusion, they are stronger than Vegito because they are blood. Vegeta is my favorite character but Gohan is my 3rd
They Shoulda just let Piccolo fight Buu and get hurt so Gohan could be the "Super hero" of the arc.
I don't know if this was ever mentioned but couldn't they blast the rock around the sword to get it out?
If Goku’s ssj3 could be felt in otherworld in the Buu arc, how did no one feel when he achieved it during the 7 year time-skip? Supreme Kai didn’t feel it? Vegeta, Gohan, and the others didn’t feel it?
Because realistically Toriyama pulled SSJ3 out of his ass…literally. He came up with concepts and ideas as he went along with DB. At least for Z forward.
@@landendrake it’s just one of many plot holes. That’s just what happens when the mangaka writes from week to week lol
Interesting you did a Z Sword video after I asked a question about it on your last one just saying that as long as you’re strong enough anyone can pull the sword.
Lol, Goku spent less than a minute getting used to the Z-sword while Gohan spent a lot more time with it and was even in SSJ1 at one moment. The bias is unreal. Gohan probably re-gained the strength he lost over the 7 years.
I'd say between janempa, grey buu, and majin vegeta and base gotenks. under ss3
Definitely not weak. Power level for sure over 9000.
Excalibur. The sword from the legend was called Excalibur.
Ok so I haven't seen everything yet but, accoring to your, how does zenkai's work video I'd say it must go like this.
Gohan is nearly killed by buu, thus, zenkai. Ghoan now equals if not surpassed fat buu. Putting him in his base form at ssj3 goku levels.
Then Gohan required ssj2 to pull out the sword so 100x ssj3 hoku levels.
Then Gohan in his base can barely lift it. Where as in ssj2, perhaps 1 he could weild it fine.
By the time goku arrives there Hohan, in base, is swinging it masterfully. Thus he should be about 50 to 100x stronger in his base form... aka 50 to 100x stronger than ssj3 goku.
Then he get's his potential unlocked and it surprised everyone around them. So at least 2x stronger when he goes ultimate.
This I do believe disprooves your how do zenkai's work theory but honestly I like to scale him to buu. He could handle super buu but not buutenks. Thus, he is above majin vegeta, and comparable too ssj3 gotenks who was stronger than ssj3 goku.
This is not base power though, this is ultimate, aka max power. Elderkai said, "just trying doing that super saiyan thing." Meaning it's him bringing out his full potential. Ssj2 plus rage boosts, but in a controlled manner such as ssj grade 4.
His rage boost in the saiyan saga made him 700 times stronger roughly. Thus gohan must have been as heck at the start of this arc.
Future Trunks, after training and dominatin the Z sword, even in SSJ2 couldnt easily defeat Dabura and even required the help of Kaioshin to catch him off guard while charging a finishing move. Why would Gohan do any better than that after same training and likely having very similar results?
Gohan should have had long hair in the Buu saga, at the very least we could have seen the visual difference of Super Saiyan 1 and 2
The visual diffence is the lighting but he probably has short hair due to the fact he's half human and it grows so either by his own choice or by chichi getting his haircut occasionally. you can also tell the diffrent between 1 and 2 by the spikiness of the two or just the hairstyle
@@MissDemonicTV i respect your perspective, his Super Saiyan 1 and 2 hair are damn near identical visually though
@@TreFKennedy very true on the visually it looks the same. in this scene he went super saiyan 2 both in the manga and in the the anime his hair is very spikey and more "up" than his regular super saiyan form. in the anime lightning is visually shown which is only sown when they are in super saiyan 2 and 3. I want to point out gotenks is the only exception to the not being super saiyan 2 becuase when he went super saiyan, blue lighting was shown, but he wasnt a super saiyan 2. Just like with vegito. The best traits of both fighters creates the "best super saiyan for them" fusion is the peak of their powers multipied to each other.
@@MissDemonicTV plus from the hair designs Toryiama could have used, this was the worse choice
Off topic, but I bet LSM would be mad as hell if all his games in the back fell down, lol.
Haven’t watched the video yet, I’d say at least stronger than Goku base to base at that point as he was swinging the Z sword with much more ease than Goku was.
I like the anime version wen he teleport to gohan n almost got his head cut off by the sword 😂😂
I'd say he was probably stronger than Goku, base to base, given that Gohan was doing combos with the sword while Goku could barely lift it. Gohan's Super Saiyan 2 would be stronger than Goku's Super Saiyan 2, but Super Saiyan 3 Goku would still be way stronger before Old Kai unleashed Gohan's potential.
I'd say he was stronger than Goku ssj2. His base was clearly stronger than Goku's just based on how they compared holding the sword.
Gohan Vs. Rolf “Ed, Edd, n’ Eddy”
Who y’all got?
Makes you wonder what power Gohan would have reached if he trained non stop in those 7 years. But of course this is not how he was characterized. If he was like his father in attitude he would have been a lot stronger than he was originally.
Ultimate Pull Out Game
If Gohan effortlessly handled the Z sword, and Goku struggled with it, that implies that at least in base form Gohan > base Goku. I'd go as far as to say Gohan's Ss2 form was far above Goku's and Vegeta's at this point. His power level at a ss2 was likely right under or around fat boo's level. If he had the ability to transform to ss3 like Goku then he wouldn't had access to the latent potential inside of himself. So at this point, Goku is still stronger only do to the fact that he has one more transformation.
Naah,Fat buu manhandled ssj2 Gohan
I think it's worth noting that Goku was only struggling with the Z sword in base form, he didn't try powering up yet
God this arc more of a mess that I remember.
Why is there a sword that eclipses all of the entire universe 😭, and than Gohan just sits and gets his potential unlocked.
Just so he get plot-lifted to everyone else's level.
Ehh, that's been a thing since the Namek saga tho. Although it got WAY more pronounced and frequent over time.
I'd like to see the fight between majin Vegeta and this gohan
Why couldn't supreme kai just destroy the rock surrounding the z sword? I understand there's still the issue of picking it up because it's so unnaturally heavy
Even if they did, none of them could’ve lifted it from the hole in the ground
Maybe to test gohan more.
Gohan n Piccolo don'SF train be the strongest the plot always helps them 4 e.g Piccolo merged nail then he was the strongest without even training and later on he merged with kami then then he was the strongest without training n Gohan just rages 2 get power like in super hero n Gohan just sat infront of the old kai n was the strongest again that's why I appreciate Vegeta he works hard 4 every thing he gets
I always have this Gohan within the ballpark of Fat Boo, but still weaker. But that's just me.
I Agree
Before I watch the video, I'm going to guess he grew stronger by at least 100x. Gohan was barely able to lift the z sword while he was a ssj2. Gohan after the training was casually swinging and flipping the sword around in his base form. Ssj2 is a 100x amp from base, so he should've grew by that much at the very least.
Perhaps he was finally powerful enough to date Mr. Satan's daughter...
Gohan, pulling it out in front of gods. That's worse than how familiar Goku acts with Zeno
What if Gohan had his potential unlocked in the hyperbolic time chamber? What if instead of a day he had months of getting his potential unlocked
Dammm Gohan had to go into ssj 2 to pull it out 😂
I wish he never even got the "ultimate unlock" and just got way stronger from training with the z sword
1 day just lugging a heavy sword around. Nah. Goku was still stronger. Goku only had a problem wielding the sword because he was just trying it out, he didn't get use to it. Remember goku fought vegeta, zenkai boost, and spared with buu thus increasing his power. he probably was just as strong as himself when he finished cell or a little bit stronger. It was just a day at the end of the day.
Gohan playing with the z sword is just like goku training with weighs around his legs and arms with khaio before he got his 24hrs permission on earth.
Good work out but making gohan on par with goku in just one day by lifting weights seems hard to believe
The old kai said it the real power of the sword is him
He’s probably as strong as ultimate Gohan. Expect he would need to be an enraged to the limit ss2 since elder kai brought out everything inside him
My question is Z Sword stronger or better than Trunks Sword?
Future gohan in the shin budokai games was pretty strong.
If I remember correctly SSJ 3 Goku couldve just killed Fat Buu but chose not to, so it would stand to reason that Z Sword Gohan should at least be able to match Fat Buu.
I suppose, if we buy into base Gohan actually surpassing base Goku here, that Gohan not having Super Saiyan 3 would still make Goku’s max power way higher while utilizing that form. And with Buu’s absurdly powerful regeneration, there is no “matching” him. Either you could totally wipe Buu out, or Buu wins in the long run.
The real question is how many other mythical swords existing are actually just poor things or people who pissed off beerus. Lmao
*Some fisherman sneezed wrong* and that’s How Atlantis Fell. *Only a trident remains*
*Middle century england* some Orc is walking around and tries to bonk the cat god. *Camera cuts to whis shaking his head in shame as he turns the poor dude into a sword that would become The legend Excalibur*
*LOL A LITERAL demon just doing it’s own thing happens to eat something that beerus wanted* (And that’s how the Soul calibur Series was born) cap-com just doesn’t want you to know the truth.