Tillotson 212E Vs Wildcat 223cc ~ Who Will Win!?!?!
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- Опубликовано: 11 дек 2023
- Today we look at, compare, and dyno test the Wildcat 223cc and Tillotson 212E. For years the Tillotson was the king of the hill in small engines. You may no long think that after todays video. We compare part for part which is the best in the small block world. Who will come out on top?
Parts Used In Todays Videos
Wildcat 223cc - bit.ly/47dT4Wz
Tillotson 212E - bit.ly/4706hRD
Predator 212cc - bit.ly/2VBPOjW
Predator Ghost 212cc - bit.ly/3tcxByu
Predator Max Performance 224cc - bit.ly/3RCEG4J
58mm Crankshaft - bit.ly/3QGo6z4
PZ22 Kit - bit.ly/3QGocqq
Wildcat Billet Rod - bit.ly/3svmAYL
Wildcat Billet Flywheel - bit.ly/3GCHFDN
Merch & Events - bit.ly/33YbmtO
Parts & Tools used on the channel - amazon.com/shop/redbeardsgarage
Quantum Machinery- Siegmund Welding Table - bit.ly/36PHm6G
- Nargesa CC60 Bender - bit.ly/2xWDVxj
Prime Weld Tig 225x - amzn.to/3L4U3MG
Prime Weld MIG180- amzn.to/3KVUPvn
Amsoil Affiliate - bit.ly/3TWtrmM
Benchmark Abrasives (cut-off wheels, flap discs..) bit.ly/2SENg4f save 10% REDBEARD10
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*********Disclaimer*********
Please do not try to re-enact or recreate anything you see in these videos. We are trained professionals. Red Beards Garage does not take any responsibility for injury's created by doing so.
#RBGKarts #RedBeardsGarage 
Развлечения
Wildcat 223 will be my next engine because of the block. Your research has been flawless and truthful and i greatly appreciate that! You are the man!
Very professional and well put together.
I appreciate your videos for breaking it down simple and honestly.
Great series ! A sealed 225RS should definitely be the next thing on the dyno!
I am going to get one coming!
This is my favorite small engine build channel. Great content great info.
Good job red beard ... Thanks for the info. I just bought 4 predator 212 on sale for 99$ each I'm going to keep them stock for rototiller and some old farm equipment. Love the old cast iron engine . Some time it's better to replace than to rebuild. Price wise of course. Keep em coming 🔥
The Predator 212 is the good ole beater. Cheap and reliable. Not hate on them here. Thanks for watching!
Bravo Sir! Thank You for ALL of Your Hard Work and Dedication for Passing along the information Thank You!
Excellent content....this is what I love to see. Just the facts. I have a non-Hemi 212 Preddy that was given to me and I was thinking of building it up for my racing mower....but after watching this, I'm gonna go with the Wildcat and keep the Preddy on the back burner. All of the extras engineered into the Wildcat makes it a no-brainer IMO. Even stock, the Wildcat would be more than enough for my mower. The thought of the extra compression from just a billet rod is enticing, too! Wheelies for days........... Thanks for all that you do, Greg!
Good to see you developing that relationship with Ec Carbs. The other companies have been taking credit for their R&D too long. Their EGO clutches are amazing too
Love it! Great video! I know what I'm buying. Thanks Greg!
Excited to see what you do with this 223 Wildcat.
Gotta support your sponsor!
Exactly the results I expected. When you announced you were doing this comparison, the first thing I said was to bust the "9+hp" and "10k Flywheel" CLAIMS on that Tilly. The only Tilly's worth messing with are the 225 and bigger
Great information I would definitely buy the wildcat and build it
If I were to get another engine it would be the Ducar 224 from DynoCams.
I will see about getting one for testing.
One thing you forgot to add when it came to the price of the Wildcat was shipping. I just went on their site to see and it was $60+ in shipping. I'm not shilling for HF or anything but that cost me $6.99 to have it shipped to my front door. I understand that a company like HF who ships millions of items per year gets better shipping rates but at the end of the day I have an amount of money I can spend on toys and that's $50+ that I can spend on a carb or something else for my engine. Hopefully the Wildcat line will be able to get into a chain store or something else to bring those shipping costs down.
Ive been wanting to buy a wildcat engine for a couple years now and i think im going to go ahead and finally buy one after the holidays
Nice comparison! I'd like top see a video of the performance to dollar ratio. USING the SAME carb on each engine!
You should build a 224 and wild cat step by step like the road to horsepower
Thank you Redbeard. This was a much needed video.
You are welcome
Great video as always. Thanks for your work.
Thanks for taking the time to watch it!
Holy crap that dyno was 12 grand!!!!
Respect.
I know, 12k out of my pocket!
Wow great sponsor!
They are ridiculously expensive. I looked into getting one about a decade back and they were circa 8k at the time and that was without the computer.
Awesome video!🤘
Thanks for this video!!! I been trying to make my mind up about what engine to get for my mini bike build!!! GREAT ELABORATION #MAD#RESPECT 🙌
Thank you sir and Im glad we could help! As long as your building!
Good info , thanks Greg
I been watching you guys for a long time
Thank you for your help
You made me better engine builder
Thank you again
Thank you for watching and supporting us!
Another great video. Best channel on youtube for this hobby, period. There are some other really good channels that are entertaining and fun to watch but you put it all together with your experience and thoughtful content.
I really appreciate it! Thanks for watching and supporting.
Dang it and I just bought a Tilly, I wish I would’ve knew about this wildcat engine and bought it instead😢
Would love to see a Power Fist 212cc engine from Princess Auto in Canada on the road to horsepower series. Loving it so far!
Thanks red this is what I needed I was struggling between choosing a wildcat or tillotson as my next engine for my trailmaster once my 196craps out
You talk about the Ducar a lot but you haven't tested one yet. I would like to see the Ducar 212 (I built one) tested. Its $225 but you get the PVL flywheel, good for 17k RPMs. I think it will be on par with the Tilly 212 performance but the price per HP is better, with it coming with the upgraded Flywheel.
We are going to get one and add it to the list. I will continue to do this type of video throughout the year to see if something new comes along or what other engine I can add.
Yes, please give the ducar 212 a test. 5300 governored rpm right outta the box, a pvl flywheel, and much better carb.
@@RedBeardsGarageThey make a 224 also :P
@@rickswans211Still a mechanical governor with moving parts inside the engine.
Better off ordering Dynocams rev limit coil with it.
I run one of those coils on my Ducar224(it's not a predator you're thinking backwards LOL) and it works great, caps it at around 5250.
I still have stock rods and not much more than a stage1 so I wanted it limited somehow.
EDIT:
For the record I do use a Cast Aluminum flywheel, same as the one Red uses in the vids.
Good info. Thanks.
I am just about to start a new build, was not sure what stocky to start with. Now i may get a wild cat and follow along with your riad to HP for it!
great info! thank you!
Great video bud thanks for your time
Thanks for watching!
Wouldn't it make more sense to do the 223 vs 224 and tilly 225
I will once I have a 225cc in my garage. The only ones I have are built.
@@RedBeardsGarage will the 225 Tilly be similar to these engines? I thought it was a $1000.00 kart motor. Or do you mean to bring the Wildcat/Predator/Ducar up to its level with performance parts? Then do the Dollar/Dyno comparison. Also wondering if the Wildcat can be bored to 72mm or would it require a new sleeve? Then a 236 Tilly vs Wildcat match up could be done.
So yes ec carbs are a sponsor.
Still can’t beat a 99$ predator on sale
On an all out budget yes it is.
I build my own engines for the backyard karting I do here in NC which I think is probably the capital of oval karting and your right a 99.99 Predator is a good deal and I will probably buy another one when on sale but so far the best hp per dollar engine I have built so far is a the Predator 224 which is really not a Predator it’s a Ducar with a Predator sticker. I got it on sale for like 140.00 I put a PVL from a new Ducar 212 I had I got for a good deal shaved the head did a little porting, shaft rockers, flattop piston, 308 cam, 36pd springs, billet rod, stainless valves, aluminum push rods, Autolite plug and I redone Ducar carb and drilled it out to over .690 it’s about the size of a VM22 carb and it runs awesome and to be honest RBG videos helped me more than anything. Thank you and God bless
@@JasonkartracingI have a Ducar 224 and am very happy with it.
Has such a broader power band than my 212 Hemi , it seems like it pulls for ever and I haven't seen the rev limiter yet that sits at around only 5250. (rev limiting coil from DynoCams).
I learned a lot here also, but Red probably not speaking to me for my mouth when I got mad once over something that shouldn't matter to me since. LOL
@@NubsWithGuns how’s that Dyno cams coil doing. I was thinking about getting one cause one track I go to has a 5200 rpm limit and everyone is running the governor trying to stay under that rpm I haven’t talked to the track owner about it yet to see if it would be ok.
@@Jasonkartracing Does what it is supposed to.
God bless you RB. Any chance you can get ahold of one of PKs engines and put it on the dyno? He builds some pretty cool 301’s and true fire rings the heads and porting like crazy. Everyone is wanting to know what those things dyno.
I haven't heard of them. I will look into it.
I bought a wildcat 223, Amen 🙏🏼 brother
Good info, Thanks
Thanks for watching.
Love Ur channel, I race gokarts for years, just now getting used to gas racing, not methenoahl flat heads love to contact y'all bought alot from go power sports, love to ask questions be glad to pay
Hey Red beard I love the engine content. I've got my engine set still looking for a go-kart frame to install it on keeping eyes open. Thank you for sharing your comparison and results.
Thank you for your support. Keep your eye on marketplace and something will pop up.
Thanks for the information. The Wildcat will be my next buy!
Glad we could help!
I like this because Tilly will hopefully improve and surpass. I’m a tillitson fan obviously.
So heres what i would do at some point on my fresh build.
Id choose the Wildcat 223 cause of the blocks strengthening & longer stroke & crankcase has the 7 bolts.
Then get the 212 Ghost camshaft & carb.
Billet rod & Billet Flywheel & MSD Ignition Coil.
Im curious what this would do on the dyno mashing these 3 togethor into wildcat 223 ghost machine 😂❤. Sounds fun to combine
Your still doing great with these videos the wildcat seems like a good deal for sure
Thank you sir!
I like the Ducar over the Predator but at this stage, it’s hard to beat starting with a 72mm Tilly block and picking your own mix
I think your built predator 224 vs a built wildcat wound be sick
We will see how it stacks up once its on that level.
Hey red is the governor removal process the same on the wildcat as the predator 212?
Has anyone ever seen a jug blown off the block or damaged? Im just questioning the value in the extra webbing. Im not questioning it is stronger and cheap insurance, but is it worth the extra cost? You are either really going to have to push the limits, or make a build miscalculation to get the jug to self clearance, IMO. If you are going to build a rip snorting fire breathing monster, then the extra cost for the extra webbing/insurance makes sense. Thoughts? Great content Greg and keep the videos coming!
It all depends on how far you push the engine. These engines do have a lot of vibrations in them. I believe it is 100% worth it. I have a block in my shop that is starting to crack. We did rev it a lot to 9k.
Talked to Mark at PRI about buying a Wildcat and he told me to wait for your videos coming out. Excited to see this series. Currently have a Tillitson 212E so this video is practically made for me haha
Glad we could help. The first road to hp will be out in just a week or so on it.
Honestly, its about time they dropped the price. I was shopping around back in August and that was not the price. Along with shipping fees it made this engine a no go - currently with shipping from ECCarbs website the price jumps to ~233. VS Predator 224 187 shipped, metal cam and webbing makes a difference sure - but I would also note the engine tones on that dyno and say I think the Tilly sounded stable compared to the WC. The shipping price is really the downside of the engine.
I wonder why not compare a tilitson 225. In this mix. Would be a more comprehensive list
Aren't those $800 plus? Who sells a stock Tillotson 225?
We will get one to test.
I think they make one in a stock form. I will see about getting it.
Thank you for including photos of failed cast iron flywheels. In five years of being in this hobby this is the first time I have actually been shown a failure. I had been doubtful until now.
Agreed! I saw that too and was like DANG!!!!
Fire 🔥 video.
Great video team. Super excited to see some wildcat builds. Would like to see how the ghostbuster wildcat stacks up.
We will be test it soon.
Nice info
A great piece of info .....might have to get one of those Wildcats for our current build. Have a Tillotson that came with the bike from GPS...didnt really believe the 10,000 rpm claim
Im excited to see what it will do.
I will be following this too - building for the next GPS 180 @@RedBeardsGarage
It kind of depends on what you are planning to build. If you are planning on something simple for your kids go kart then that Predator is hard to beat especially as you can get them on sale for $100 at least that's what I paid for mine. I'm putting it on a mini bike for my kids and have no plans at the moment to push it past 12-14hp. Now if you are building a racing engine for competition I agree with you on the Wildcat but if you are building something to thrash on the weekends then I think the Predator is hard to beat. Kind of depends on what you are doing. As I'm writing this one of my thumbnails is talking about a 50hp Liquid Piston diesel engine that weighs 18kg or 40lbs, now that would be fun on a Mini Bike or a Go Kart.
Hello Mr. Red Beard. I have a question/suggestion. Have you ever considered using portal gear lifts on a gokart? I have a basic "Batman 200" for the kids and I was thinking if I put 29's on the back with a 15% reduction it would give crazy lift, good torque, and not much difference in top speed. Thoughts? It might make a good project/video. They are kinda pricey off the shelf but as resourceful as you are, you make have a cheap solution and something gopower might sell if it's successful. Just sayin', Thanks!
Thanks to your knowledge, I confidently got the mini flying. I plan on modifying the original engine to 18hp Thanks again
It is addicting!
Note: Not only do you get a lighter valve train with 5mm valve stems but equally important is the extra air flow you get. It's like getting a port job for free. It's like porting the valve stem all the way.
If you could put up a bar graph of all the engines with HP and Torque would help with your viewers. Lets say have the engines across the bottom with a red bar going up with the HP number in it and a blue bar right next to it with the Torque for each engine. You would be able to put it on your website and update it with all the mod possibilities as time goes by so people who what to build an engine could see what combinations at a glance would be best for them. Or just in your video would be great like for this video having all the engine with the price to performance you talked about since for me the numbers start to jumble together as you were talking and I has to rewatch and write them down. Great video as always thanks for your due diligence figuring all this out for us.
Yeah I had a lot of time in the video and had to get it out. These take forever to film and edit. We will keep on getting better and adding more.
I'm guessing it is just you and your wife doing all this work you are doing great and have no complaints just passing information I have seen else ware. I have never edited a video before but from what I have seen my guess is it takes longer to edit a video then to build an engine from scratch. I like that your videos are you and your family and friends which keeps me coming back.
Dude let me just say. Your content is 🔥 🔥 lol
I'm super new to karting but I know how to talk to EFI or carb engines from my younging wild racing days lol and I'm also not afraid of tearing an engine up to build with fun parts.
I got a kart with a Pred Ghost engine that I picked up for $950.
The chassis is in great condition with minimal surface rust from the grinding on the ground from its previous owner.
The engine starts up super fast, one or two cranks only, which wasn't idling and driving right when I was actually at the guys location to road test the kart.
I had a feeling it was an ignition issue and not fuel, got it home and took out the kill switch he had in it and bam problem solved 😅
The kart is completely disabled ATM, ready for prime and paint tomorrow. I'm waiting on my engine parts to make it safe, i went with the flywheel and rod kit with a new clutch because this one is ass lol
Now I'm on the hunt for a new master cylinder lol.
It is the most fun hobby. Thanks for watching and supporting us. Im trying to get my son in karting maybe we can have a meet up soon at EC on their go kart track!
Wildcat head mating surface looked nasty
This is why I have a Predator 224 block with a Tillotson crank, piston & head, a Wildcat 26mm carb, and EC rockers. It’s a little bit of everything.
Call it the taste of the rainbow lol.
Put the EC stage one kit on the Wildcat and put it back on the dyno. PLEASE!
Just wondering if you've ever done any work with the 5-8 hp briggs intek engines. Some of them are sold with torque ratings only which seem to be more than the engines tested here.
I would like a wildcat 223 and tried twice to buy one but EC won't ship to anything but the billing address. Not a knock- that's just their policy. Maybe down the road I will be able to get one but I am usually not home when things arrive so it is what it is
Yeah I understand why they do it. They have been screwed a few times by people.
I love my 224cc 😊
saving people a lot of money and time, thank you, i appreciate it.
Man. I got a predator to build. But im thinking im going to get a wildcat. But before i do. I want to see what goes on with builds. Cause from the start you got more hp stock. So it should build more built.
Have you ever personally split a predator block due to too much power/tq?
i ve never heard of that actually happening i think the split block thing is a made up scenario just to try to sell a product
kinda like the mouth was company listerine did when they made up the medical condition sounding word halitosis
Also, are you going to circle back around on engine venting and the purpose? Where the check valves go and where the best place is to take a pulse line for the pump would be? Us upcoming builders need to know. 😅
Yes. I will do a video soon on that.
@@RedBeardsGarage cannot wait!!! ❤️
Bore, stroke, compression, cam. Start doubling, tripling, and quadrupling these engines.
Yoo Red Beard, seems I had interesting engine name that you should find out on the market
it's name ProQuip Marintek 4000 Marintek
it's was around 4500RPM at max and was 389cc stock
I mean, this was interesting engine that, actualy can rev more than 3600RPM stock engine
if you had mind to review this engine and show us how this engine rips on the track,
that would be nice for us to know, what this engine capable of.
peace
How's it compare to the Honda engines? Always wondered if there is even a market for Honda mods
I can't wait to get the stuff together for my next build. I have 2 of the predator 212 engines at home.
I've looked through your videos and I'm not finding too many on issues from small engines... I just put a predator 212 on my daughter's Motovox mbx10 and the only things I did to it was remove the shift linkage and install a Chinese vm22 carb and tied open the governor and put a small aftermarket exhaust... I got it jetted correctly and the needle adjusted appropriately so I get no lag in the throttle however I am running into an issue just recently with the the pull start acts like it's locking up and not turning the motor.. it has less than 10hr of break in time... any ideas would be greatly appreciated...
Any big difference between the electric start wildcat? I’ve been considering the wildcat 223 electric start for ease of starting for the kids. I know they have flywheels that exist and the charging coil really doesn’t mean much to me. Thanks!
The starter, charging coils, and a ring gear is the difference.
Not sure if they use different flywheels(example the flywheel my 212 predator has no magnets for the charging coils but the flywheel on my 196 does).
Great video, I’m glad you partnered up with EC Carburetors. I love the wildcat 223cc a lot. I don’t have one either, but I have a question. If I bought the wildcat cylinder head, will it fit my Ducar 212cc engine?
Yes that head will fit it. They are a great company to work with. Looking forward to the future content with them!
They're all kinda suited for each purpose the tillotson would be a good work horse and the others are not they'll take a beating at 9k rpm but how long do they last under kinda normal working situations that'll tell you which one is most likely to be worth building 3600rpm isn't alot but every day weeks on end is alot more stress than just reving it to the moon and hoping you don't toss a rod
Honestly under normal working situations there all the same. If its a log splitter or pressure washer go with the cheapest 212.
Hope you see this red. Could you please tell me if theres a way to have an electric start motor that makes 11hp if so would you please recommend how to do so?
did the wildcat have the 4000 rpm limiter on it when you had it on the dyno?
Did you try the CDI kit yet?
So now I know why for months now you wouldn't talk to me about EC's Wildcat and their Hemi head 😅.
Such a great surprise that they sponsor you now.
Can't wait to see what that 223 will do.
I have wanted to show it off since it came out. Now we will be doing the road to Hp with it.
@@RedBeardsGarage You had to have been still working things out if I am remembering the correct time frame so it makes sense now.
Plus they are all black stock with no fruity stickers all over them so that adds hp lol.
So im guessing gopowersports aint a sponsor anymore and ec carburetors is the new sponsor
Ec sells both engines. I feel like I proved what I stated in this video. This was not about sponsors.
So where do you buy the black motor?
I need the 79cc predator to go on sale
Can you dyno the tillotson 212r engine? That was a engine so many people missed out on a really really well built engine with a flywheel ready to hit high RPM. heard it made 7 or close to 10?
Prolly not gone reply but do a tillotson 225rs vswildcat it’s gone knock it out the park?
What RPM were you running when the flywheel came apart?
Is EC carbs 223GTI-E a decent option for a lilttle more preformance ?
I wanna see a budget build of the wildcat once u add basics upgrades it easily becomes 800$+…
Thanks for info. Ive got 2 nob hemi predators. One came with a minibike. 2nd got for 40$ cleaned carb started right up. Think im gonna try a slight build with 40$ one.
There great engines for sure. I have a free horsepower video coming out in a week or so. Look out for it.
I could use some help with my predator motor. I fully rebuilt my bike, put a air filter and exhaust on it and it won’t start. I have checked the valves. I have went over the whole motor and cannot find what’s wrong with. It have been messing with it for three days. I have ran this motor about three days ago and now it won’t start and I can spin the engine over by hand with no compression. What should I do?
You’re only getting about 6500-7000 on a Tilly 212 with stage 2 kit. Yes a higher lift cam will give you a little more but your engine won’t last too long, plus your valves will start to float at 7000 rpm. I experience it often with mine. Almost bought the wildcat months back but I was scared too, lol 😂
What does it mean if your predator to 12 has resistance?
❤ allsome work from cruzermans inventions it's good to see the difference between them for sure 😁👍🎉🌟🦇