Answering as a musician and sound engineer: 1) Most musicians can not afford high and audio gear 2) We do not invest in high end audio to listen to music while we sit on the sofa. We invest into gear to MAKE music. This gear can be instruments, mics, studio monitors, computers, software, etc... 3) Recording studios do not record, monitor and mix through the kind of speakers that home stereo enthusiasts listen to music on. We want speakers that do not add the amount of color I generally hear on expensive "audiophile" gear. We need to create mixes that will sound good on anything, from earbuds, to car stereos, to lousy little bluetooth speakers, etc... And for that, speakers with flat response are better 4) A good pair of studio monitors cost less than "audiophile" gear. I do have the chance to listen to music through my neighbors hi-end system on occasion and it does sound great, but I would not want that kind of set-up in my studio. If someone gave me a stereo like that I would not turn it down, but if I had that kind of money to spend on audio gear it would go into my studio.
Pretty much spot on. It is an expensive endeavor. There comes a point where there is very little return for such large expenditures. Lastly allot of "high end audio gear" is literally snake oil in a box. The really amusing thing about "high end" is the fact that allot of old consoles used common Op Amps in the gain and filter sections by the hand full. So the reality is that many much loved recordings that were raved about for their sound are the result of common off the shelf parts one would find in the common integrated amp or boom box. The best money spent on audio is the speakers. Flat, clear and extended sound from good design.. Not the gimmics A certain speaker maker you know the speakers of which I speak, use to sell bad boxes! I know more than a few musicians and all have basic kit to listen to. All but the most successful simply can't afford a good set of speakers, an amp, and a good preamp to play their sources thru. Frankly most modern sources render high end a waste. I do have a PS Audio 200Cx amp and a home made simple class A preamp to drive speakers but past this is simply a waste of money. And I have heard some of the very best speakers that were made
So glad someone did the heavy lifting and explained this properly. Every single musician I know (who also records/produces their work) has nice monitors. The last thing any of us want is “High end audiophile gear” that adds low or high end hyped sound. We want the most neutral sound possible that is faithful to the original recording and mix. As far as I’m concerned, we’re the ones doing it right. I could never go back to regular speakers after getting used to a proper mixing environment.
I think You are spot on already with your first answer. High end audio do not typically excel giving a deeper insight into the musical aspects of music hence do not typically give a better experience in that respect. When focusing on audio reproduction quality it seem easy to improve some aspects of the reproduction that are less significant musically while actually laying musically significant shortcomings of the equipment more obvious ending up in a musically less satisfactory result. I find that all too often with high end audio.
@@kebman Gold-plated connectors don't rust or oxidize the way standard connectors do, they conduct electricity better, and are typically more durable in construction. Better cables and connectors aren't always worth the price tag of Monster or Rocketfish, but there are real benefits to it.
As a musician for 52 years, and also a recording engineer, I’m interested in hearing all the instruments in a recording clearly. I expect my playback system to reproduce the source audio accurately. But I also have an ear trained in hearing things non musicians might not hear. I’m perfectly content listening to music on my iPhone through a nice pair of headphones, or even the Apple Earpods. The bass response is good, and the high end is crisp. I can hear what’s going on in the music. Is the audio quality perfect? No. But I’m listening to the music, not the audio gear. I do appreciate high quality systems though. I had a very nice one some years back. But more often than not I prefer listening on good headphones. It’s the same with food... I know the difference between a gourmet meal, and pizza. But I still enjoy both for what they are. And musical equipment like guitar amps aren’t hi-fi. They color the tone of the instrument. That’s why we fuss over it. And most musicians look at claims by some audiophiles, the people who buy $1,400 speaker cables, or $600 wooden knobs, with amusement. We know that stuff doesn’t matter. The studios that the music was recorded in didn’t use that stuff. It’s viewed as snake oil.
its a different mindset : producer vs consumer. we have to make sure the mix sounds good on crap.. which may actually limit what it "could" sound like on a perfect system a little but not by much.. but every recording ever has been made that way so now these "high end" systems are made to "hype" the frequencies we tend to roll off so the buick speakers don't fart
@@lanchanoinguyen2914 The recording and the playback system are two different things. We can all appreciate music even on systems that aren’t the best.
Ahh, the irony of upper middle-class, Audiophiles. Buying a speaker lead that costs more than the microphone the music was recorded on. Owning speakers 4 times as expensive as the ones the music was mixed on. Most audiophile gear only highlights problems of the original recording. What are they hoping to hear? Secret music only $80k can unlock?
My old mate is an audiophile and his favourite band was Burzum. A band that recorded vocals through a headphone speaker modified to be used as a microphone to sound as bad as possible.
@@DodInTheSky lol.........I actually recorded black metal through my earphones ones. Me playing guitar, my buddy grunting in the mic. Granted, I was 14 and it sounded like crap. But we had loads of fun.
Yeah I bought a Crown amp thinking it would sound good and my onkyo was a cheap low watt receiver and sounds better. China made Crown unit sucked so beware!🤑
@@DodInTheSky Of course you need a high end audiophile system for Burzum. If you listen using a normal stereo system there is a chance the the distortion of your stereo and Burzum's noises cancel each other out and you can actually hear music. That would be a disaster.
As a musician myself, I have what I consider an ok receiver, speakers, turntable. I do appreciate vinyl and great sounding equipment. It's kind of ironic that you can buy the same amp that Eddie Van Halen uses for $2000, but audiophiles have $10k amps for each component. Sometimes these 150k systems are more money that the studio equipment an album was recorded on.
That is a very good point indeed. My sound system at home is decent but not over the top. Sometimes audiophiles spending more money to interlinks then the price a studio payed for a cable to connect a studio microphone. I get your point completely. Audio tech is a complete different and in my opinion a strange world where sound is more important then the music. Music must be the main goal. Not the audio sound.
guitar centers has used Digitech RP pedals and they sound really good! Into a compressor and then into a USB autdio interfacer and then onto t Audacity and its easy to make a decent recording. $10k buys a Fractas Axe, New Hand wired plexi, lots of used yamaha Se, SC, SSE, acoustic and bass guitars. Raface DX, sENNHEISHER CONDERSE MICROHPNES, radial engineering di BOXES, ETC. thankes you and thum,bbes ups!
Well, I'm a musician myself. I didn't have money to purchase High-end equipment so I got into learning and after that, making my own stuff. I now have a system that's all DIY made and sounds (and looks) amazing. It took me only 25 years LOL
Professionals in music and audio just aren’t as much into wasting money on pure snake oil gear, perhaps because we know it’s often nothing more than show-off snake oil. We can better agree on the value of a great speaker than on a US$1000 power cable.
Precisely. I do care about what sounds true and pure, but I'm not willing to join a psuedo-religious cult who believe that copper cables "sound warm", and silver "sounds bright" when that's clearly based on their fucking colour.
For me all this turntable madness is something i can`t understand. If you`ll look at the vinyl record under microscope, you will see that groove is very far from being smooth so it is NOT perfect analogue image of sound(apart from that most of the modern vinyl records are based on digital master). Digital sound is practical, eco-friendly and excellent quality that don`t decline over time.
100% agree. I feel strange in the sense that I see good audio as easily obtainable and there is really only improvement to be had. Now, I say good audio, not great audio lol. Great audio is hard
Musicians are like actors. If you deliver a great performance, it doesn't matter whether you watch it on a square TV or an IMAX screen, the quality of your work is not measured by image clarity, but by the emotional response you generate with your audience.
To me that is the point. Listen to great old records... you still get the idea of the great job done, even if the record is comoletely worn out. you can tell how charlie Parker must have sounded even though you only have scratchy records left. the medium in between just does not matter that much.
In my experience a good audio system makes it much easier to get closer to the emotional content of a piece of music by revealing more detail about a vocalists performance and the specific sound of each instrument, as well as how they are being played. A more nuanced sound with greater detailed is especially beneficial when listening to unfamiliar performances and musical genres.
Sometimes an musician doesn't find that a song interesting as well as an normal person because he hears that chord progression everyday or he already knownledged about the harmonization that might impress audiences but it's just boring to an musician/artist.Musician always focus on the new things,new chord progression,new vibe and groove instead of enjoying music as normal people.Some gerne of music like electronic/funk/jazz...etc focus on the effects of the audio signal(synthesizing) instead of the true recreation of signals.
THIS. As a guitar player of 25 years with a popular music diploma, I see little value in obsessing over equipment. If the songs are good and the performance is good, it will be just as apparent on moderately priced gear as it will on the sort of ridiculously overpriced, cock substitute shit that so-called audiophiles swear by. I currently have a Pro-ject turntable plugged straight into some active speakers and that allows me to enjoy my records just fine.
My listening environment is a studio. IMO, top shelf studio gear is as good as it gets. And, I spent significantly less than the typical audiophile does when chasing performance numbers. Additionally, good studio gear allows the listener to adjust parameters to a finer degree. I personally think the listening environment has far more to do with good sound than how many dollars are spent on esoterica.
Audiophiles become audiophiles because of their love for music and their desire to have electronic equipment reproduce it as close to a live rendition of same as is reasonably possible. There is no denying however that in pursuance of the hobby, like most other hobbies, one can become somewhat swept up with certain aspects of it and so yes, listening to how different types of equipment reproduces the music often plays a major part.
In Poland we have a saying "Szewc w dziurawych butach chodzi" which translates into "A shoemaker walks in a leaky shoes". It seems that people have always separated their craft from their personal needs.
what are you talking about. Most proper audiophiles understand that no matter the price of the speaker, if the room isn't treasted correctly, you will not be able to hear nor experience the reproduction capabilities of said high end speaker.
@@Gw49172 Why? Also what does publications have to do with the basic understanding that many audiophiles practice. Publications, marketing are all for the rich, ignorant masses. They do not authentically represent what a large number of us practice nor believe in. Just like the idiots who think buying a $400 analog cable will suddenly allow the audio reproduction to sound cleaner, and more transparent over a well engineered $50 cable.
Musician here. I’m starting my journey for the last few yrs. I will say most musicians are broke and can’t afford Ps audio. We would rather have a good amp and music gear!
Hello mine frends! I cants affordsd ampes no more so when I get money I gets used dititechs or other pedela fromgutercenteres and use the amp simulutar in DFITECH RP 355 AND cabinte sim into udb autdoi interface, Distortone pedals dont soundes as nice as turbes ampes or FIGITICHES rp pedels. TANKEY YOUES AND THUMBBES USP!
You took the words right outta my mouth. 80% of musicians are usually hustling for a gig. They're not necessarily interested in providing uncle Paul a comfortable living when they're own needs of room, board and spousal support aren't met . He's such a charming man thinking PS Audio is a purveyor of alternate means to live music. Someone really should break him the news flash...
I’m a serious, professional, classical musician, with 3 music degrees, who studied with several teachers of the highest caliber, and experience in many acclaimed music organizations over the past 50 years. Even though I consider myself to be an audiophile now, this was definitely not the case a few years ago. I realized that reproduced music never compared with the live music I was making with others. I would rather make music than spend a lot of money to listen to recorded versions. Also, as a clarinetist, if I had some money, I wanted to spend it on perhaps a new mouthpiece. Or maybe an A clarinet for orchestra, or (heavens!) maybe a bass clarinet. I have pianist friends who are playing on an old upright piano at home. They want to save for a grand piano. Then I have other friends who are string players, who would like to acquire a better ($$$) violin or cello. Audiophile interests have always seemed very expensive. What happened to me was that I had been on orchestra boards and the manager of a semi-professional ensemble. With a couple of these we lost the recording service that would record all live performances. Unable to quickly find a suitable replacement, I bought a small but good quality recording set-up with a DAT recorder so that I could do it myself. What started out with 2 microphones and small mixer, became 3 mics, then 8-10 mics, and eventually 35 microphones and the ability to record 24 channels simultaneously (not on a computer). As my interest in re-mixing and mastering grew, I was disappointed in my nearfield monitors, and relied on high quality headphones. When I finally decided I needed to use high quality full-range speakers for re-mixing/mastering and listening to recorded music, I fell into the grip of high end audio. I think if serious musicians realized they could actually put together a great sounding system for a very modest investment, I believe they would be more interested. I have another generalization on musicians vs audiophiles. If you ask 50 classical musicians to list their favorite recordings and ask 50 audiophiles the same thing, I think you will see a difference in how they choose. I think the musicians would select based on the musical interpretation and emotional involvement, not on the pure sonic quality of the recording. Although these qualities might be recognized, I think a lot of audiophiles would start the other way around, making some selections that musicians would shun. Again, I think musicians would rather create music than re-create music. However, I’m thoroughly enjoying both!
People can be be a musician and a listener of sounds systems as well. My opinion is that most musicians have never actually heard a good system so they have no reference point.
You do sound like an over educated dweeb. 1000 words to say what most people say in a simple sentence. I think you should go back and get your 4th and 5th degrees. They will appreciate your nerdy wordy rhetoric.🥱. By the way I do agree with your second to last sentence. I didn’t read the rest of it.
Instruments cost a lot. A musician is always going to prefer getting a new toy that they can play with rather than an audio system for sound reproduction. To them, playing instruments is the active part of music. Listening is inherently passive. If you were a sportsman, you'd rather play the game than sit on the bench and spectate.
I must say that this video and the comments are awesome! - my thoughts, perhaps is also a factor that (generally) making music is in the art/culture corner, while building audio systems is (mostly) technical/beta. Ask a violin player about a toroidal transformer, ask a technician about Beethoven's symphony 7. These two fields rarely overlap in one person. Obviously in this world today an art career is almost a certain path into poverty (which I think is a shame) - while a technical career doesn't have this problem. Just some ideas.
As a Professional Musician I can second that. Most musicians can't afford high end gear. Also If you spend your day making music, you like quiet when you get home! and finally nothing can compare to sitting in the middle of a professional orchestra
No dumbass. They listen to uncolured sound, they listen to the truth and Audiophile Audiophile hi-fi don't provide that sound. People who work or listening to recording studio don't use Audiophile hifis. They want to hear the truth. Hifi speakers CD, they use are at 70+ khz beyond human hearing and bass low as 9hz down to 3khz. They use 5 way or 4 way speakers with super tweeter and mid_bass midrange tweeter bass, subBass and subwoofer.
As a mixing and mastering engineer, the music production process teaches (the hard way) that the most important things are the ones that make the biggest changes, and those are the first ones in this process: Lyrics, instruments, arrangements, compositions and ideas. Investing in these instead of the stereo reproduction systems, or even in expensive production gear, will result in a better song at the end. Also, musicians, producers and engineers know that most people are not audiophiles, so the music must connect to the people and send the message even through the crappiest listening devices on the planet. In the end, emotion is what matters the most.
Yes. You’re talking about the software part of the equation. For us audiophiles, it’s not only about that. It’s also about the hardware, as better hardware allows us to emotionally enjoy the music better.
His answer was in his own question: “they are obsessed with finding the perfect sound of their instruments”. If you’re obsessed with something you’re not really looking at much else. I lived it.
The actual answer is that there's a lot of stumbling and bumbling to pump out some BS reply because the truth is that the whole industry is mostly a scam to sell junk electronics that really don't do anything special.
A top session musician who has played on literally thousands of albums in his career was asked what he liked to listen to at home - and he said "I prefer working in my garden".
That sounds similar to what Lee Sklar would say. I know a lot of pro musicians who feel the same. Most people who work a job 40 - 80 hours per week don't go home and do the same job at home in their free time. "Must a have a balance." ~ Mr. Miyagi
@@rb032682 I think everyone is different. I spend my days teaching high school music - concert and jazz band and, before Covid, spend many of my weekends gigging or recording live ensembles. I listen to music on the way to work, on the way home, when I get home, at night and so on. I never seem to tire of it, but everyone is different.
@@ChrisHaas1 - I agree. I can't say I "tire" of music. Everyone is different and there are a lot of different musical situations. When I did nothing but play music for a living, 1971 - 1985, I couldn't afford good home stereo gear. I was more concerned about getting a better guitar or amp if I had any money to spend on musical things. No recorded audio can compete with a good live performance, so I had little motivation to make good speakers and a turntable a priority. It's great you are teaching HS concert and jazz band. 99% of the fulltime musicians I currently know have a spouse with a good day gig. lol
As a musician I know that you can never have a perfect recording. Live sound will NEVER be the same as recorded sound. I don't care how much you spend. So...if it's good enough it's good enough. I'm an audiophile who knows the difference and can be okay with less than perfect. Especially when I feel the hobby can many times take away from the music itself. Analysis of music quality degrades the experience of it.
As a non-musician who does music mixing and recording as a hobby, I've got to say that I prefer a well mixed and mastered record to live sound. To me, live sound is simply inferior in clarity and nuance. That said, the emotional impact of actually being in the room with the musicians and hearing new melodies morph and transform in reaction to my presence is definitely something that cannot be reproduced. Studio recordings strive to be a perfect, idealized image of the music. Live sound is much more visceral.
@@piotrgraniszewski8544 you raise a great point that I'll agree with. Properly recorded sound can sound better than a live performance, but I've seen and have experienced both scenarios where either one is better than the other which depends on many variables. I was just pointing out the fact that many audiophiles want to achieve the effect of a musician or singer performing live in their rooms which is simply impossible to do. Realizing that may save a lot of frustration and money.
@@piotrgraniszewski8544 well said. I've seen many great acts live that I was extremely disappointed with because the audio quality sucked. I demand audio quality, live or recorded. Guess that's why I hate punk rock, or whatever it's called nowadays.
I'm a musician. And I'm a sound engineer and producer. And I'm definitely not an audiophile. When I make music and when I mix music, I do that for ALL people, my music and my mix should sound good on every system, at least to some extend. We don't mix for high end systems, most of us at least. And what you mentioned, we mix for emotion, for impact. Many years ago I listened to a demo of a very expensive amp and speaker set and was blown away when they played a classical guitar piece and then a string ensemble piece. It was incredible! However, when someone put in a rock cd it was... it still sounded beautiful, clean. It wasn't rock anymore. Then someone put in a house cd and that was even worse. The bass drum just bounced and was deep, but it was missing every form of character. It was TOO clean. See where I'm going with this? This high end sound is not always the best for what you hear and some music actually sounds worse on a high end system than it does on a cheaper system. This may not be everybody's experience, some will totally disagree. But I want to ask, how many of you audiophiles have acoustically treated your room for audio, to give space to the sound waves? How many may actually have a 10000 dollar system sounding like a 200 dollar system because of standing waves, room resonance and lost bass because it can't "breathe"? Think hard. Cause these are the things we audio engineers care about. We have found that treating the room makes a thousand times more difference than a shielded cable or a 3000 dollar speaker. We actually truly care about sound, but in a very different and I think more scientific way.
Agreed. I have a pretty good hifi system but sometimes I'll throw the wall in my Panasonic portable cassette player and set it down next to me and just jam it all the way through.
Your experience is due to the audiophile’s bias based on the types of music that they listen to. If you put together a system that makes acoustic instruments sound good because you only listen to classical, then that system probably does not sound good for rock or electronic music. This is why I think my system sounds ok with all music because I built it with a focus on making all kinds of music sound good.
The older I get, the less I value pristine recordings and the more I value honest, realistic music. It doesn’t have to be perfect, it just has to make you feel good.
Not to mention the fact that as people get older their hearing acuity declines. I laughed recently at Neil Young complaining about the quality of modern recordings. As an old rocker it is highly unlikely that he can hear any frequencies above about 9 KHz and probably after a lifetime of blowing out his eardrums with loud music much less than that.
And musical gears are expensive. you spend thousands and thousands just to get the sound that you want to produce, but the key is that it's what you 'produce' when you are a musician, whereas that audioquest patch cable can only 'reproduce' at best.
$500 on a patch cable to listen to music recorded with $100 mics running through decades-old corroded patch bays, a few stages of 90s A->D conversion, and carried on Hosa patch cables. Pedalboards are even funnier as now you've got a dozen blocks of die-cast medal running on sketchy power supplies bodged together with unbalanced cables handling a signal in the hundreds of millivolts with mostly analog circuitry, sometimes also decades old, sometimes then running into a tube amp mic'd up with an SM57 in a basement with comforters hanging over chairs...and you can make a platinum album like that, but audiofools will pay thousands for cable elevators.
@@panzerfan And they spend 400 grand on a car and that's COOL but not hi fi. Isn't that just a little bit hypocritical? People are allowed to spend mony on what they like. People think canned music is EVIL when it's played on a high end stereo system, but canned music from their bluetooth shit speakers is still just as EVIL isn't it? It's still canned music still. Why should reproduction quality and expense make it evil? wtf
Proves my point that musicians know how modern recordings are often made and that's why we're reluctant to invest in super-high end audio. I'm interested in high-end audio to a logical extent but I'm not going to chase the dragon as I know some do. The only reason I'm into high-end audio is because l like to listen to and reverse-engineer production ideas. Getting that separation of sound so I can hear details is what I like. Again, going to insane levels isn't important to me. Same with cars. Sure I'd love to ride in a 2M hyper car but the differences between that and a 80K Corvette or the acceleration you can get in a Tesla are only important to those who care about the nuances that blur the lines between the thrill you get out of use and the thrill you get via pride of ownership/investment.
I would still be annoyed by the noisy bad line, and if it was the first time they were saying it, I'd probably be excited, but still annoyed about the line...
I’ve talked about this with a couple of my colleagues, we all either record or mix in the studio most days of the week. And it is true, apart from some guys using their stage in-ears to listen to music on the go, nobody owns high end audio gear privately. The consensus was, that for most who spend all day listening critically on pro equipment in a great room, it’s actually a relief to have a little less detail for recreational listening after work.
I’m a musician. When I have money, I upgrade the quality of gear that I use to MAKE music not REPRODUCE it. So I’ll buy a mic or a mic preamp or something for recording. And the second reason is that I monitor using inexpensive ($400 new in the 80’s) Yamaha NS-10m’s. You will see those white speaker cones in studios all over the world. They have become a standard in the industry because ... mixes that sound good on NS-10m’s will sound good anywhere. Those expensive speakers are one of the last purchases I could afford to make.
Russ (This is my father's name, therefore, you're not only correct, but also great!): We've made Paul consider musicians, here, this time around. This is why his mind came up with 'David' instead of James!
David Jones renamed himself after the Bowie knife. The surname "Bowie" does exist in the UK and is though to be of Scottish origin. Coincidentally our Dave had at least some Scottish ancestry.
I just imagined audiophile Grimes fans, listening to music mixed on a laptop in headphones through a $30,000 stereo and orgasming about overtones and clarity that even the paid Grammy-awarded mastering engineer didn't hear in his lifetime, ever :D
@@PerkeleKeyboardist When making music the microphones and programs will capture and create and deal with frequencies you can't even hear as a human being, much less any crappy speakers you choose to work with. Then, it's up to the speakers and equipment to play it back properly. Not much people really invest in quality sound, but a $1,000 investment can get you a very nice home theater setup to enjoy movies and music in ways you never could otherwise.
@@mariomguy yeah, a pair of studio-grade reference monitors, exactly such as those the music is being mixed on. Anything else, be it $10 Aliexpress earbuds or $20,000 peudiophile stereo is just distroting the musical information in comparison to the intended sound observed by mixing engineer, i.e. lying.
@@PerkeleKeyboardist LOL, wow. And yet, studio monitors all vary in quality, bass response, mid performance, and treble highs. Every single pair of headphones "lies" because none of them can reproduce perfectly flat, nor should they be expected to. Poor quality headphones will round out highs and provide muddy or missing bass. Medium-grade headphones will cut out midtones, some worse than others. Even studio monitors struggle with accurate highs because that's just a limitation with most magnetic drivers. A good set of monitors can reproduce music accurately, honestly, and with great quality. The more you spend, the more you'll tend to improve on all fronts, with diminishing returns past $150-$400. You don't need to spend $20,000 to get something decent to mix with, but you do need something. And the higher up you go, the better reproduction you'll get. But every pair of headphones is different.
Listening is such a subjective experience. When I was a kid, all I could afford was a $5 portable AM radio. But it didn't stop me falling in love with music.
In Germany we have a saying which goes like "Des Schusters Kinder laufen barfuß" which would directly translate to 'The shoemakers kids are walking barefeet'. It seems not too uncommon. My Explanation is, that handymen know that they could repair their stuff when needed, so there is no urge to do it now as long as things are still working. Doesn't translate to the musician, though...
Audiophiles often go to more sterile sounds because they think it sounds more articulate. They like harsher tones and when something has a burr brown chip they say it’s muddy or outdated lmao. They think brighter and thinner is more articulate . Even if something is equally articulate and has all articulations , if it is warm, they will say it’s muddy. In fairness some guitarists do this too and often go to the high mid emphasis as clear which is also a mistake. But audiophiles often want unrealistic delivery of sounds and thinks wider soundstages are always best or hearing things that are meant to be obscured is best. They overlook the art of music and think it’s about looking at it under a microscope. It’s the equivalent of me taking a photo and over sharpening it and thinking because I can see the pores in everyone’s face in a photo the photo is now better. Audiophile equipment is way overrated for sure. Iv seen this myself looking into DACs and amps. They worry about specs and not the actual music lol . They think music sounds better when they buy an overly powerful amplifier that is way more horsepower than they need .
@@heythere6983 You are generalizing big time. So many of us audiophiles are anything like what you described. The problem is the elitists in our hobby. They are the loudest( publications etc..) and so many people think that is what an audiophile is.
I am a musician, I have a decent system, i will invest in my system in the future even more. But I have no illusion to make it sound live, this is an audiophile illusion/dream I am not chasing, because I know it is not possible. So what I want to say is that many musicians are more realistic about HiFi.
Like everyone else, I’ve been to plenty of live shows that sound crappy. We accept it as a part of the experience. It’s only when you go to a venue that cares about audio-like Austin City Limits-do you appreciate what good music and good sound are like together.
Maybe because high end sound is still a thousand miles from sounding like live music. So to a musician the difference between high end sound and a boom box doesn't seem very significant.
I'm an engineer and musician. I've had a pair of Mackie HR824 Mk1 monitors for about 20 years. They are the foundation of my entertainment system. The joy they have brought me is immeasurable. Any kind of music sounds amazing.
I'm a professional musician and an audiophile. Most of the comments are spot on, lots of us are broke. I'm fortunate work in a military band and there is a small group of audiophiles in it. Not everyone will agree with me, but I believe I understand both perspectives. Most of us that were also audiophiles, also worked in sound production, recording, mixing, etc. When I am in the rehearsal hall hearing people practice, there's a visceral part to it. The low brass, timpani, drums, bass, etc all hit you in the chest. When I mix, I want that same effect, and I want to hear it the same way I do when I'm in rehearsal or sitting in front of the band during a tune I don't play in. I aim for the same sound and feel in my home system which is only attainable through high end audio (on a musician's budget - yes it's possible). Now for the musicians that don't care for high end audio. That one is simple in my opinion. We are surrounded by music all day. As much as I love it, its hard work. My ears are exhausted and need a rest by the end of the day. This is blasphemy in the audio community, but after a hard day's work we just need some peace and quiet! lol I love the system I put together, and it sounds like the musicians are right there. But after hearing music all day all week, I tend to save the audio for my weekends, and listen to music that I don't play. It reminds me why I fell in love with music and audio in the first place.
i'm a musician but also love hi-fi, i listen to music all day so i get a lot of benefit from a good system. but also i "play songs in my head" if there isnt music, its almost involuntary
Yeah most people here do not know anything about music. I now a lot of other band members, music teachers and so on. We do not have the time to sit and listen to music. If you have 2 hours free after a long day work. You’ll use the 2 hours to practice your instrument. The only people who sit in a quiet room to listen to music are unemployed. Or living with their parents. If you have your house to clean. Food to cook, shopping, work and hobbies and kids. There’s no way you have time to sit and listen to music or even read books Most of us musicians who buy expensive audio is just to watch movies with the family. In my case I bought a 1000 euro speakers because I can. The difference of 100 euro to 1000 euro is nothing. Only 900 euro. I couldn’t care less.
That’s because they are so rare. Most knifophiles have never even seen a David Bowie knife and plebes like us would not really appreciate the superior quality of a $2 million pre-CBS cobalt-molybdenum blade Ziggy Stardust boning knife.
As a musician, I can tell you that what I hear when listening to my Skull Candy earphones is not what's coming out of the earphones. My brain fills in all the complexity of the music that I've heard before (and some that I haven't! Hello, misheard lyrics), and incorporates that into the experience of listening to my earphones. It's the imagination that fills in the gaps in audio quality to some degree, and I'm sure everybody is like this to some extent. Why I'm interested in high end audio (and why I even have a high end audio system at all! i.e. monitors) is to record my own music. Mind you, I would've wanted a good audio system anyway eventually, turntable and everything, but recording music is a much greater impetus for me towards developing a good audio system than listening to music. If you can RECORD your music the best, it will translate the best to a multitude of other devices, and so more people can enjoy more of your song's reproduction than if you had a crappy recording, though a moving song is always a moving song, no matter how well it's recorded, which is why I still love listening to the demo version of Catamaran by Yawning Man, as I like that performance better than the official version, though it's great too. Just some insight from a musician
Usually because it sounds nothing like their instruments whether that's natural instruments or electric like guitars. No musician has ever been fooled by audiophile gear versus the real thing. Ever.
This is how I see it, people always want what they can't have. A musician can reproduce the sound of a live performance in a room whenever they want audiophiles can't without spending alot of money. Most Musicians I believe are satisfied sonically with their own raw organic sound so they don't crave that desire to get closer to the music like an audiophile as they are literally creating and hearing the music in its truest form. An audiophile that doesn't play an instrument may not hear a live piano or guitar in a room all that often so that sound is 'special' to them where as a musician most likely takes that sound for granted, which isn't that unusual as most people start playing at a very young age so it has always been normal and accessible to them.
Paul I just found your channel and am happy be apart of this experience. I am a pro audio engineer but mentored by two brilliant HIFI designer and engineers. I asked them this same quesition for years . They sat me down told me this : Mickey audio is learnt . People listen to what has been given to them over the year as the grow up . So always show them the difference , teach them and then they will understand as they hear the difference " so if you introduce them to listen to a better or accurate audio they will make the change . However there is an economical factor . In one my mentor's counseling advised that " cheaper audio equipment and quality audio can not be used in the same sentence " lol. So to get the correct results it is not necessarily affordable and not knowing what is correct accurate audio is learnt . Although there are a number of new product on market that are great quality but if you have to know what to listen for that would give you some good and above average audio. All of this experience I have used to teach musicians and quite their fears as they do what you to change the audio characteristics of the instrument . So muscians use what have as the dont knon any better or can afford . ok There are a lot more things but this is the fundamental reason. Hope this helps. I hope you read this Paul Thanks
That is something I've noticed, a lot of my friends listen to music on €10 earbuds and are totally happy with it but then as soon as I let them try my audio technicas they realise how dull the super cheap ones sound. I know it's nowhere near proper hifi quality or anything but there's a huge jump between the sound of €10 earbuds and €100 headphones that a lot of people don't realise is there until they try it
@@ceinodowd1841 well said . That the point . There are a number of head phone oout there now the sound very good . But as you have done listener would know until they hear the difference
There is a point of diminishing return when paying for "audiophile" level equipment. I want to hear a quality reproduction, but don't need artificial "airy" sounds from a fancy power cable that cost more than all the standard instrument & power cables my band used combined.
The emotional and nostalgia of listening to music should always come first, quality second. As a audiophile and musician I believe this is the reason we love music. I don't think many people remember certain song from there youth, that reminded them of someone or some fond event and though...wow what a great recording. Of course the music takes a whole new level of experience when the quality is great, but never forget why we listen to music in the first place.
I'm 54 been playing guitar from age ten and I happen to be the proud owner of a set of AR 3's powered by a set of Mac 50's .You should run this question by Rick Beato . I would love to hear his answer
The thing is, the emotional connection to music can be had through a transistor radio, or a supermarket PA system, and this how I believe most musicians view it. When I connect with music, I don’t care where the bass player was stood in relation to the guitar player, and what brand of strings he was using. I’ve relaxed how I listen to music these days, no longer always rigidly sat between the speakers, as though in a Victorian photographer’s brace! That said, I do value the ability of an audio system to convey the dynamics and impact of the music, which is something many cheap audio systems fail to do.
It is the same reason countless wagers have been sitting out there for decades challenging "audiophiles" to put their money where their mouths are in blind listening tests. As long as a marketer can say..."Well John, you can't hear the difference in these $800 speaker wires because not everyone has the ear for it"....there will be a market. Oh...gotta run...I see some dust on my Mark Levinson ....
My father was a professional musician with a world renowned orchestra. To him the sound from a perfect recording through an awesome hiding was nothing like the sounds (plural) on the stage or in the orchestra pit, which were filled with groans, grunts and other noises of players at work. On the other hand, get him into the audience and he didn’t care about the seat and what view it gave, he was there to listen and gauge how well the conductor had balanced the sound given the acoustics of the concert hall.
For acoustic musicians who are into hi-fi, violin myself, and I've heard a clarinetist say the same thing, the reproduced versions of their instruments are so far off from the real thing it's hopeless. Most of the times the sound is ruined at the mixing board, never mind the rest of the playback chain. Itzhak Perlman has said he struggles with recording engineers every time to get a what he considers a good violin sound from his recordings. What you said about the communication of the content and intent of their work rings true. It's like cellphones, if you're interested in getting a message across, you just need enough clarity. The rest is on the communicator.
I'm a musician, and I'm fanatical about my stereo sound. Finally have a system that satisfies my hunger, after all these years of trial and error. But, most of my friends do not share my passion.
Exactly my man , when I record a video of a solo don’t give a damn of the quality of the video or the sound, just wanted to hear the vibe and play on time, comment on point, 👍🏿
In composition class, one classmate was always whining about the quality of the speakers and the fact that her midi wasn't set right to play the score, until on day our teacher said something like "Oh, shut up. Mozart played in 8 bit on a nokia 3310 is still Mozart!"
Classical musicians and music critics tend to value performance over reproduction. They can hear a great performance through the grunge of a pre-1950's recording, which I as an audiophile have never been able to do.
WR Day exactly! I’m an orchestra conductor and was given the side eye when purchasing Dvorak cello concerto produced by a “not great record company” ...it was Rostropovich and the performance is incredible so I didn’t care about it being the ‘best pressing”
Now imagine music teachers working remotely during the pandemic who judge their students' performances on crappy, distorting laptop speakers. It's real. It doesn't bother them one bit!
Piotr Graniszewski in defense, it’s a very long road from student to what we listen to on recordings. The amount of time and work people like Anthony McGill put in to get to where we can listen to him with the NY Philharmonic would leave jaws on the floor for many. For students during the pandemic, there’s a lot we can hear, assess, and teach disregarding tone quality of their instrument though a medium like Teams or Zoom/crap speakers. Rhythm, interpretation, technique, etc. What’s fascinating about being a musician and audiophile is that I listen in very different ways. The critical listening nature of being a conductor puts us inside the music in an enviable way. We hear details that even live audiences can’t discern, and what I like reading about is the similarities in some terminology and how the definitions of those words are so different. It’s fascinating to hear how different carts are more “musical” or has better “rhythm”.
I can help with this answer being that I’ve been a musician for over 40 years professional musicians are playing and practicing their instruments so much that they really don’t have time to listen to music all that much I remember some days practicing my guitar over 8 to 10 hours then having band rehearsals several times a week and keeping a full time job my focus had to be my instrument and getting better on it the only time I would listen to music at all was to learn a song that my band wanted to cover so why have top end audio if you don’t have time to use it it was only till I wasnt so much in the band seen did I start to get into high end audio
The emulated outputs of older preamps are ususally just capcitors and resistes to rool foo the treble and make it sound like a speakers. The digitals stuff from DIGITECH and Fenders is waaaay betters. ALesus 3630 compressor is what Scott Groves uses I DOnt like Orange. Blackster or Rob and the Chappers dfrom andertoins!!! THANKES YOUES AND THUBMMES UPS
My haute cuisine teacher, who also became my friend, once called me asking if I knew a good deliverable pizza. In a totally pedantic tone, I said him "excuse me sir, I do my pizzas by myself!". Answer was a lot of 🤬🤬 and a huge laugh. Regards from Lima, Peru.
I’ve been a musician for over a decade who new into chasing good stereo sound. I too was fine with crappy Best Buy systems until I heard audiophile ones. But still I doubt at any price it would replace playing with a band and hearing actual live music.
That is how i see it also. Just find a good balance between good affortable music systems but never take it too high because you are going to miss the real goal. Emotion. Music is emotion. You can not catch music to its real purpose when you aim only to quality systems at home.
The idea is not to replace musicians and live music, but to be able to enjoy the closest thing you can get to that in your own home. Also, to be able to hear musicians of the past who are no longer with us, as they sounded when making the recording.
@@Hare_deLune My point is that some house audio systems are more expensive then the recording studio where the record was made in. And i have a decent system myself but some audiophiles gets more excited because of the sound that comes to life in their own houses then they get goosebumbs from the music itselfs which you can also get from lower priced systems. no offence btw to you 👍
@@Hare_deLune If you are interested in truly old recordings, a boom box is probably adequate. I listened to an FM classical station while working and would sometimes amaze my helpers by pointing out that the music playing was a very old 78 rpm recording. They always asked how I knew, and it was the lack of dynamic range and frequency response that gave it away, even on a job site radio. I never claimed to be a classical music expert (although perhaps I should have, to mess with their heads.)
@@obsprisma No offence taken. If one does their homework and knows what to look for, then there is absolutely no reason to spend obscene amounts of money on a Hi-Fi system, unless one has more money than sense. : )
That's why audiophiles LOVE vinyl. Because there is no way on earth to make it a truly blind comparison and they can always pick out the playback from vinyl and claim it to be superior to be digital only because they know it's vinyl. They are the ultimate expression of confirmation bias.
As a musician I appreciate and insist on quality audio reproduction for my music, especially because I record and produce my own music. However the very process of recording instruments introduces losses that when played back on high end audio cannot recreate the true sound of live instruments. No high end audio equipment can compare with the sound of a real instrument. Musical instruments are the real deal and cost much less. When I want high end audio I just pick up my guitar.
But most Guitar songs are done through hooking them up to an amplifier. Unless we are talking about playing acoustic guitar in a small room, the moment you hook your instrument to a piece of electrical technology you are doing the same. The best example of what you are trying to say would be a violinist. Being in the presence of a master playing in an acoustically treated concert hall is something that no audio can reproduce the same.
Musicians are smarter! btw I have never seen a musician discuss the brand of cabling for the studio monitors in the Abbey Road studios or Electric Ladyland, that should be more than a clue...
True. Never once have I spent more than $35 on a power cable for rack gear costing hundreds of times more than that in the studio, on the electronics bench, for any guitar amplifier I've ever owned, or for any audio equipment that I've owned. That said, I have spent outrageous amounts on instruments over the years; many hundreds of thousands over the last 45 years.
Manure Hippo you’ve never heard a musician discuss studio cabling because audio engineers & studio technicians handle that. Virtually all professional studios, especially Abbey Road and, ahem, Electric Ladyland - which hasn’t existed as such for 40 years, by the way - use high end cabling & terminations, brands like Canare, Mogami and Neutrik. You should ask a musician who’s also an engineer.
Manure Hippo I’ve never heard an engineer discussing ANY technical aspect at Abbey Road studios.And I’ve been playing there on a regular basis for forty years. What I do hear, as a regular occurrence,are musicians,engineers and ProTool recordists talking about the essence of the musical performance. Many audiophiles aren’t fortunate to have that insight into music so they obsess on the misplaced notion of technology as a musical surrogate. It’s just a fetishistic claim to Enlightenment.
As a musician and engineer and appreciator of great sounding audio, i agree with your premise that we care more about the performance than the sound of it, and as other commenters have mentioned cost is an issue, but i would like to add that the knowledge base for hi end audio and creating music has almost no overlap, and a lot of us have very little bandwidth or time left to learn a whole other area to able to participate actively in high end audio stuff and not get fleeced.
The mechanic’s car doesn’t run right, the plumber’s pipes leak, the nurse makes a lousy patient, the barber needs a haircut, the psychiatrist is impolite...
True. The more you mix the more your ear evolves towards quality. But at the same time most regular producers that I know of electronic music are not used to the real high end because they are sold crap by the marketing.
@ Why do you think H.R. is not? What is your definition of 'musician'? What / how should music sound? As far as i know HR is AND a musician AND a spoken word artist. MY definition of music is that it should move me emotionally. Whether the musician has a beautiful voice (Tori Amos) or sounds like sanding paper (Henry Rollins) i do not care; it is the emotion that he or she puts in the music. And, to make things even harder, that differs per person: some people like the music of Adele, while for me i imagine that mainly producers and businessmen define her music.
4 года назад
@Redpill Progressive Comedy gold right there ! Aww the hero of the disenfranchised closeted male.
Musicians & audiophiles (or audio enthusiasts) most of the time are 2 different types of people. Every so often, the 2 find themselves in the same body.
Hi Paul und Matthias. Nein, zet is not korrekt. Yes, you are correct that there are few true audiophile 'nuts' who will spend $10,000+ on an amp and speakers but all of my German friends, who are all musicians, have all invested in audiophile equipment at some stage. One guy borrowed $5,000 30 years ago to buy the top of the range audiophile system. Others can't afford it. We'd rather invest in good musical equipment... but those who can afford both do so.
Most live music is performed through a mixing board and amplified PA systems...so, disagree. On the other hand, if you are just reproducing unamplified classical music, your comment has more truth. However, when you get recordings without compression of a live instrument, like a piano, the best systems sound very similar. But most audio engineers don't release full range, non compressed recordings because 98% of the systems would have a melt-down.
I don’t have any musical talent whatsoever, but I’m always chasing that “perfect” sound that others have created, when I hear something good on a high end system, it gives me goose bumps.
I’m a professional record producer, mixer and studio owner, having worked on hundreds of albums. Like most mixers, I use decent loudspeakers, costing no more than a couple of thousand dollars to mix music. Whenever I meet an audiophile who tells me that they like my music and the way it sounds on their high end system, they are shocked to hear it was made on speakers costing 1/10 of the pair they own. Us music producers don’t care so much about the super high fidelity. What’s important to us is that the essential qualities of the mix will be reproduced on as many different systems possible.
As a musician, I’ll answer it this way: when I spend time listening to music, it’s often not for enjoyment (tho it’s inaccurate to say I don’t enjoy it....). Rather, I listen to music either to learn it, or to gain inspiration. Further, no matter how much money I spend, the system won’t duplicate a live performance. Therefore,I want to be able to hear the music clearly. If it does that, it’s all I need. Lastly, I’m far more interested in music - making gear than music - reproducing gear. Great question! Great video thank you!
Musicians spend their money on instruments etc, instead of hi fi gear, because they prefer to actively play music rather than passively sit and listen. Having a multi thousand dollar hi fi listening system at home is of no value to a professional musician. Between practicing, rehearsals, traveling, studio sessions, teaching lessons, etc., most professional musicians have little time to sit and listen to music for the sake of the quality of the hi fi set up. They spend their money on the tools of trade. The truth is, for a professional recording musician, a cheap bluetooth speaker or a boombox is of more value than the most expensive setup that Ps Audio could ever build for you. For a musician that has a trial mix of a song he or she is working on, hearing the mix on speakers that resemble the millions of speakers that the Music buying public heard music on, rather than hearing it on something that a few crazy rich guys will ever own. It's very common for studio producers, mixing and mastering engineers to assess their work on a variety of inexpensive listening gear. Back in the day, studios would often have a tiny 4 inch reference speaker to hear what a track will sound like in mono on, on AM radio, in a car.
Most audiophiles have no idea how to play an instrument. That makes this "world of audio" strange. Trying to get the best sound out of your system but having no clue how a real instrument sounds like in real life.
I wonder how much of it has to do with many musicians have some form of hearing loss. I have a sharp roll off in my hearing response a little above middle C caused by participating in marching band and shooting sports without hearing protection when I was in my teens. A marching snare drum and a 12 gauge shotgun are wonderful devices to eventually cause deafness. It was the 70s and we did a lot of things that could have caused us permanent harm. I want a better system, but I can't tell what's really good because I can't hear the high end.
so just because your vision gets worse, you suddenly enjoy the paintings in the doctors waiting room with pottery barn stamped in the bottom corner? Nah bro.
The truth is... us musicians are writing music for 99% of people to listen to on shitty headphones and crappy speakers. It’s all about the notes and the gaps between them, rather than how shiny the notes are. 😎😋 Hearing one’s music on high end kit... sure, it’s a delight. But it’s something you do once in a blue moon, or it’s not a treat. 🎁💝
I am a jazz musician, and music director in venues. My experience is people in general don't listen to music much. There is music playing everywhere and many people have forgotten how to listen or even why music exists. It is bound to leak over to musicians also...strangely. There hasn't been awareness of good sound quality or people even ever being exposed to it. I made an intention to by a high end(as much as I could afford) system , when I realized I had stopped listening as an experience. I worked on music everyday, transcribing or composing or arranging. I would hear things and see what could inspire ideas etc...but the experience I had as a teenager where I would sit down and just listen to a whole record at one sitting didn't happen. The visceral, emotional experience of listeing to a high end system was something that I missed. Now I take time to just listen. High end gear makes this happen to me. It is beautiful. I try to evangelize this concept...not much luck. Attention spans ar shorter I guess, and we all enter life with a different level of awareness...some more emotional or sensual than others
Answering as a musician and sound engineer:
1) Most musicians can not afford high and audio gear
2) We do not invest in high end audio to listen to music while we sit on the sofa. We invest into gear to MAKE music. This gear can be instruments, mics, studio monitors, computers, software, etc...
3) Recording studios do not record, monitor and mix through the kind of speakers that home stereo enthusiasts listen to music on. We want speakers that do not add the amount of color I generally hear on expensive "audiophile" gear. We need to create mixes that will sound good on anything, from earbuds, to car stereos, to lousy little bluetooth speakers, etc... And for that, speakers with flat response are better
4) A good pair of studio monitors cost less than "audiophile" gear.
I do have the chance to listen to music through my neighbors hi-end system on occasion and it does sound great, but I would not want that kind of set-up in my studio. If someone gave me a stereo like that I would not turn it down, but if I had that kind of money to spend on audio gear it would go into my studio.
you hit the nail on the head!
Pretty much spot on. It is an expensive endeavor. There comes a point where there is very little return for such large expenditures. Lastly allot of "high end audio gear" is literally snake oil in a box. The really amusing thing about "high end" is the fact that allot of old consoles used common Op Amps in the gain and filter sections by the hand full. So the reality is that many much loved recordings that were raved about for their sound are the result of common off the shelf parts one would find in the common integrated amp or boom box. The best money spent on audio is the speakers. Flat, clear and extended sound from good design..
Not the gimmics A certain speaker maker you know the speakers of which I speak, use to sell bad boxes! I know more than a few musicians and all have basic kit to listen to. All but the most successful simply can't afford a good set of speakers, an amp, and a good preamp to play their sources thru. Frankly most modern sources render high end a waste. I do have a PS Audio 200Cx amp and a home made simple class A preamp to drive speakers but past this is simply a waste of money. And I have heard some of the very best speakers that were made
So glad someone did the heavy lifting and explained this properly. Every single musician I know (who also records/produces their work) has nice monitors. The last thing any of us want is “High end audiophile gear” that adds low or high end hyped sound. We want the most neutral sound possible that is faithful to the original recording and mix. As far as I’m concerned, we’re the ones doing it right. I could never go back to regular speakers after getting used to a proper mixing environment.
@@Nightmoore exactly that. I just use my studio monitors to listen to music or headphones.
He's talking about professional musicians. It's not about the money
Pro musician here. No point spending money on high end audio when my tinnitus is this bad ;)
No need for tweeters anymore
Right?
especially drummer..
I think You are spot on already with your first answer. High end audio do not typically excel giving a deeper insight into the musical aspects of music hence do not typically give a better experience in that respect. When focusing on audio reproduction quality it seem easy to improve some aspects of the reproduction that are less significant musically while actually laying musically significant shortcomings of the equipment more obvious ending up in a musically less satisfactory result. I find that all too often with high end audio.
I have severe tinnitus,it kinda suck
If I'm gonna spend $10,000, it's gonna be on condenser mics, like a normal insane person.
That's the spirit. I spend a lot of money on guitar equipment (in the 5 figure range), and my most expensive pair of headphones was 150 bucks.
@@behemothokun yeah, and for $150 you can get superb sound quality that rivals $5000 dollar stereo systems.
Well worth it.
Damn straight.
Spend $10k on community service
@@sza-ry6yl HA. right.
The only thing that is going to make my guitar amplifier sound better is practice. Not gold connectors
Yes...it's not the arrow, but the archer.
Gold helps with corrosion resistance, it has nothing to do with audio quality.
Amen Brother!
@@behemothokun Yet HiFi idiots still sell gold jacks for their "audio quality." I wonder how many people buy that horse shit.
@@kebman Gold-plated connectors don't rust or oxidize the way standard connectors do, they conduct electricity better, and are typically more durable in construction. Better cables and connectors aren't always worth the price tag of Monster or Rocketfish, but there are real benefits to it.
A musician is someone who drives with $5000 gear in a $500 car to a $50 gig. So most just can't afford high end audio 😜
50 bucks if you're lucky. i'm happy if i get pizza
5000€ gear damn thats cheap
😆🤦♀️😆
you forgot the $50k in music school debt
As a musician for 52 years, and also a recording engineer, I’m interested in hearing all the instruments in a recording clearly. I expect my playback system to reproduce the source audio accurately. But I also have an ear trained in hearing things non musicians might not hear.
I’m perfectly content listening to music on my iPhone through a nice pair of headphones, or even the Apple Earpods. The bass response is good, and the high end is crisp. I can hear what’s going on in the music. Is the audio quality perfect? No. But I’m listening to the music, not the audio gear.
I do appreciate high quality systems though. I had a very nice one some years back. But more often than not I prefer listening on good headphones.
It’s the same with food... I know the difference between a gourmet meal, and pizza. But I still enjoy both for what they are.
And musical equipment like guitar amps aren’t hi-fi. They color the tone of the instrument. That’s why we fuss over it.
And most musicians look at claims by some audiophiles, the people who buy $1,400 speaker cables, or $600 wooden knobs, with amusement. We know that stuff doesn’t matter. The studios that the music was recorded in didn’t use that stuff. It’s viewed as snake oil.
its a different mindset : producer vs consumer. we have to make sure the mix sounds good on crap.. which may actually limit what it "could" sound like on a perfect system a little but not by much.. but every recording ever has been made that way so now these "high end" systems are made to "hype" the frequencies we tend to roll off so the buick speakers don't fart
Exactly this.
in electronic,and lo-fi style the quality of the audio signal maybe relative.
@@lanchanoinguyen2914 The recording and the playback system are two different things. We can all appreciate music even on systems that aren’t the best.
$10 Philips earplugs. best earplugs i ever had, they're the only ones i buy. simple, effective, very satisfactory quality, cheap. that's all i need.
Ahh, the irony of upper middle-class, Audiophiles. Buying a speaker lead that costs more than the microphone the music was recorded on. Owning speakers 4 times as expensive as the ones the music was mixed on. Most audiophile gear only highlights problems of the original recording. What are they hoping to hear? Secret music only $80k can unlock?
My old mate is an audiophile and his favourite band was Burzum. A band that recorded vocals through a headphone speaker modified to be used as a microphone to sound as bad as possible.
@@DodInTheSky lol.........I actually recorded black metal through my earphones ones. Me playing guitar, my buddy grunting in the mic. Granted, I was 14 and it sounded like crap. But we had loads of fun.
Yeah I bought a Crown amp thinking it would sound good and my onkyo was a cheap low watt receiver and sounds better. China made Crown unit sucked so beware!🤑
@@DodInTheSky Audiophile listening to Burzum is the best thing I heard today :D
@@DodInTheSky Of course you need a high end audiophile system for Burzum. If you listen using a normal stereo system there is a chance the the distortion of your stereo and Burzum's noises cancel each other out and you can actually hear music. That would be a disaster.
As a musician myself, I have what I consider an ok receiver, speakers, turntable. I do appreciate vinyl and great sounding equipment. It's kind of ironic that you can buy the same amp that Eddie Van Halen uses for $2000, but audiophiles have $10k amps for each component. Sometimes these 150k systems are more money that the studio equipment an album was recorded on.
That is a very good point indeed. My sound system at home is decent but not over the top. Sometimes audiophiles spending more money to interlinks then the price a studio payed for a cable to connect a studio microphone. I get your point completely. Audio tech is a complete different and in my opinion a strange world where sound is more important then the music. Music must be the main goal. Not the audio sound.
guitar centers has used Digitech RP pedals and they sound really good! Into a compressor and then into a USB autdio interfacer and then onto t Audacity and its easy to make a decent recording. $10k buys a Fractas Axe, New Hand wired plexi, lots of used yamaha Se, SC, SSE, acoustic and bass guitars. Raface DX, sENNHEISHER CONDERSE MICROHPNES, radial engineering di BOXES, ETC. thankes you and thum,bbes ups!
Well, I'm a musician myself. I didn't have money to purchase High-end equipment so I got into learning and after that, making my own stuff. I now have a system that's all DIY made and sounds (and looks) amazing. It took me only 25 years LOL
Professionals in music and audio just aren’t as much into wasting money on pure snake oil gear, perhaps because we know it’s often nothing more than show-off snake oil. We can better agree on the value of a great speaker than on a US$1000 power cable.
Van halen used way more than that marshall head
I don't know about other musicians, but guitarists have their very own snake oil industry.
Yes I'm looking at you tonewood
It’s got to be tone oil from hand wound pre CBS snakes though
You beat me to it 👍👍😁
With a lot of distortion all the guitars sound the same to me
VINTAGE TRANSISTORS
As an audio engineer, the audiophile community feels very much like a scientist visiting a flat earth convention
amen. amen. amen.
Precisely. I do care about what sounds true and pure, but I'm not willing to join a psuedo-religious cult who believe that copper cables "sound warm", and silver "sounds bright" when that's clearly based on their fucking colour.
For me all this turntable madness is something i can`t understand. If you`ll look at the vinyl record under microscope, you will see that groove is very far from being smooth so it is NOT perfect analogue image of sound(apart from that most of the modern vinyl records are based on digital master). Digital sound is practical, eco-friendly and excellent quality that don`t decline over time.
100% agree. I feel strange in the sense that I see good audio as easily obtainable and there is really only improvement to be had. Now, I say good audio, not great audio lol. Great audio is hard
You said it. Or a pharmacist at a homeopathy convention. What they're after just isn't there.
Musicians are like actors. If you deliver a great performance, it doesn't matter whether you watch it on a square TV or an IMAX screen, the quality of your work is not measured by image clarity, but by the emotional response you generate with your audience.
To me that is the point. Listen to great old records... you still get the idea of the great job done, even if the record is comoletely worn out. you can tell how charlie Parker must have sounded even though you only have scratchy records left. the medium in between just does not matter that much.
Exactly ... this is on par with what I was saying .
In my experience a good audio system makes it much easier to get closer to the emotional content of a piece of music by revealing more detail about a vocalists performance and the specific sound of each instrument, as well as how they are being played. A more nuanced sound with greater detailed is especially beneficial when listening to unfamiliar performances and musical genres.
@@mgsee : Valid observation.
Spot on
Audiophiles love audio equipment. Musicians love music.
this is the answer right here
Exactly on point.
You can be both...but they are 2 seperate interests.
Sometimes an musician doesn't find that a song interesting as well as an normal person because he hears that chord progression everyday or he already knownledged about the harmonization that might impress audiences but it's just boring to an musician/artist.Musician always focus on the new things,new chord progression,new vibe and groove instead of enjoying music as normal people.Some gerne of music like electronic/funk/jazz...etc focus on the effects of the audio signal(synthesizing) instead of the true recreation of signals.
@@kingflockthewarrior202 Heheh
Audiophiles listen to their equipment, musicians listen to the music.
Nicer (not unreasonably expensive mind you, just nicer) audio gear enables you to listen to the music better though. You can hear more of it.
This is why I don't like to call my self an audiophile. I just like the music.
THIS. As a guitar player of 25 years with a popular music diploma, I see little value in obsessing over equipment. If the songs are good and the performance is good, it will be just as apparent on moderately priced gear as it will on the sort of ridiculously overpriced, cock substitute shit that so-called audiophiles swear by. I currently have a Pro-ject turntable plugged straight into some active speakers and that allows me to enjoy my records just fine.
My listening environment is a studio. IMO, top shelf studio gear is as good as it gets. And, I spent significantly less than the typical audiophile does when chasing performance numbers. Additionally, good studio gear allows the listener to adjust parameters to a finer degree. I personally think the listening environment has far more to do with good sound than how many dollars are spent on esoterica.
Audiophiles become audiophiles because of their love for music and their desire to have electronic equipment reproduce it as close to a live rendition of same as is reasonably possible. There is no denying however that in pursuance of the hobby, like most other hobbies, one can become somewhat swept up with certain aspects of it and so yes, listening to how different types of equipment reproduces the music often plays a major part.
In Poland we have a saying "Szewc w dziurawych butach chodzi" which translates into "A shoemaker walks in a leaky shoes". It seems that people have always separated their craft from their personal needs.
As a mixing engineer that mixes high end audio.. the room is everything and high end audio people do not understand that at all
I have a small amount of acoustic treatment and I wonder what I ever did without it. It’s crazy.
what are you talking about. Most proper audiophiles understand that no matter the price of the speaker, if the room isn't treasted correctly, you will not be able to hear nor experience the reproduction capabilities of said high end speaker.
@@paulj9821 haha yeah no. Just have a search on 1million dollar audio system. Or watch reviews of expensive systems.
@@Gw49172 Why? Also what does publications have to do with the basic understanding that many audiophiles practice. Publications, marketing are all for the rich, ignorant masses. They do not authentically represent what a large number of us practice nor believe in. Just like the idiots who think buying a $400 analog cable will suddenly allow the audio reproduction to sound cleaner, and more transparent over a well engineered $50 cable.
@@paulj9821 I think you are saying what I am saying the masses of audiophiles are easily influenced by marketing
Musician here. I’m starting my journey for the last few yrs. I will say most musicians are broke and can’t afford Ps audio. We would rather have a good amp and music gear!
Hello mine frends! I cants affordsd ampes no more so when I get money I gets used dititechs or other pedela fromgutercenteres and use the amp simulutar in DFITECH RP 355 AND cabinte sim into udb autdoi interface, Distortone pedals dont soundes as nice as turbes ampes or FIGITICHES rp pedels. TANKEY YOUES AND THUMBBES USP!
You took the words right outta my mouth. 80% of musicians are usually hustling for a gig. They're not necessarily interested in providing uncle Paul a comfortable living when they're own needs of room, board and spousal support aren't met . He's such a charming man thinking PS Audio is a purveyor of alternate means to live music. Someone really should break him the news flash...
I’m a serious, professional, classical musician, with 3 music degrees, who studied with several teachers of the highest caliber, and experience in many acclaimed music organizations over the past 50 years. Even though I consider myself to be an audiophile now, this was definitely not the case a few years ago. I realized that reproduced music never compared with the live music I was making with others. I would rather make music than spend a lot of money to listen to recorded versions. Also, as a clarinetist, if I had some money, I wanted to spend it on perhaps a new mouthpiece. Or maybe an A clarinet for orchestra, or (heavens!) maybe a bass clarinet. I have pianist friends who are playing on an old upright piano at home. They want to save for a grand piano. Then I have other friends who are string players, who would like to acquire a better ($$$) violin or cello. Audiophile interests have always seemed very expensive.
What happened to me was that I had been on orchestra boards and the manager of a semi-professional ensemble. With a couple of these we lost the recording service that would record all live performances. Unable to quickly find a suitable replacement, I bought a small but good quality recording set-up with a DAT recorder so that I could do it myself. What started out with 2 microphones and small mixer, became 3 mics, then 8-10 mics, and eventually 35 microphones and the ability to record 24 channels simultaneously (not on a computer). As my interest in re-mixing and mastering grew, I was disappointed in my nearfield monitors, and relied on high quality headphones. When I finally decided I needed to use high quality full-range speakers for re-mixing/mastering and listening to recorded music, I fell into the grip of high end audio. I think if serious musicians realized they could actually put together a great sounding system for a very modest investment, I believe they would be more interested.
I have another generalization on musicians vs audiophiles. If you ask 50 classical musicians to list their favorite recordings and ask 50 audiophiles the same thing, I think you will see a difference in how they choose. I think the musicians would select based on the musical interpretation and emotional involvement, not on the pure sonic quality of the recording. Although these qualities might be recognized, I think a lot of audiophiles would start the other way around, making some selections that musicians would shun.
Again, I think musicians would rather create music than re-create music. However, I’m thoroughly enjoying both!
Your penultimate sentence pretty much summed it up nicely. Musicians are more artists than technicians.
I'm a jazz musician with an oddly similar background with my production gear, I've fallen in love with mixing and I fully agree with you.
Beautifully summarized!!! Thank you!
People can be be a musician and a listener of sounds systems as well. My opinion is that most musicians have never actually heard a good system so they have no reference point.
You do sound like an over educated dweeb. 1000 words to say what most people say in a simple sentence. I think you should go back and get your 4th and 5th degrees. They will appreciate your nerdy wordy rhetoric.🥱.
By the way I do agree with your second to last sentence. I didn’t read the rest of it.
This is an easy answer. Musicians have no money. Hi fi is extremely expensive. End of story.
Instruments cost a lot. A musician is always going to prefer getting a new toy that they can play with rather than an audio system for sound reproduction. To them, playing instruments is the active part of music. Listening is inherently passive. If you were a sportsman, you'd rather play the game than sit on the bench and spectate.
RUGBY music Hear Hear!!! 😩
I must say that this video and the comments are awesome!
- my thoughts, perhaps is also a factor that (generally) making music is in the art/culture corner, while building audio systems is (mostly) technical/beta. Ask a violin player about a toroidal transformer, ask a technician about Beethoven's symphony 7. These two fields rarely overlap in one person.
Obviously in this world today an art career is almost a certain path into poverty (which I think is a shame) - while a technical career doesn't have this problem.
Just some ideas.
As a Professional Musician I can second that. Most musicians can't afford high end gear. Also If you spend your day making music, you like quiet when you get home! and finally nothing can compare to sitting in the middle of a professional orchestra
No dumbass.
They listen to uncolured sound, they listen to the truth and Audiophile Audiophile hi-fi don't provide that
sound.
People who work or listening to recording studio don't use Audiophile hifis.
They want to hear the truth. Hifi speakers CD, they use are at 70+ khz beyond human hearing and bass low as 9hz down to 3khz. They use 5 way or 4 way speakers with super tweeter and mid_bass midrange tweeter bass, subBass and subwoofer.
As a mixing and mastering engineer, the music production process teaches (the hard way) that the most important things are the ones that make the biggest changes, and those are the first ones in this process: Lyrics, instruments, arrangements, compositions and ideas. Investing in these instead of the stereo reproduction systems, or even in expensive production gear, will result in a better song at the end.
Also, musicians, producers and engineers know that most people are not audiophiles, so the music must connect to the people and send the message even through the crappiest listening devices on the planet. In the end, emotion is what matters the most.
totally agree
Yes. You’re talking about the software part of the equation. For us audiophiles, it’s not only about that. It’s also about the hardware, as better hardware allows us to emotionally enjoy the music better.
His answer was in his own question: “they are obsessed with finding the perfect sound of their instruments”.
If you’re obsessed with something you’re not really looking at much else.
I lived it.
The actual answer is that there's a lot of stumbling and bumbling to pump out some BS reply because the truth is that the whole industry is mostly a scam to sell junk electronics that really don't do anything special.
A top session musician who has played on literally thousands of albums in his career was asked what he liked to listen to at home - and he said "I prefer working in my garden".
That sounds similar to what Lee Sklar would say. I know a lot of pro musicians who feel the same. Most people who work a job 40 - 80 hours per week don't go home and do the same job at home in their free time.
"Must a have a balance." ~ Mr. Miyagi
@@rb032682 I think everyone is different. I spend my days teaching high school music - concert and jazz band and, before Covid, spend many of my weekends gigging or recording live ensembles. I listen to music on the way to work, on the way home, when I get home, at night and so on. I never seem to tire of it, but everyone is different.
@@ChrisHaas1 - I agree. I can't say I "tire" of music. Everyone is different and there are a lot of different musical situations. When I did nothing but play music for a living, 1971 - 1985, I couldn't afford good home stereo gear. I was more concerned about getting a better guitar or amp if I had any money to spend on musical things. No recorded audio can compete with a good live performance, so I had little motivation to make good speakers and a turntable a priority.
It's great you are teaching HS concert and jazz band. 99% of the fulltime musicians I currently know have a spouse with a good day gig. lol
@@ChrisHaas1 - I could have said that better with a little more weed.
As a musician I know that you can never have a perfect recording. Live sound will NEVER be the same as recorded sound. I don't care how much you spend. So...if it's good enough it's good enough. I'm an audiophile who knows the difference and can be okay with less than perfect. Especially when I feel the hobby can many times take away from the music itself. Analysis of music quality degrades the experience of it.
As a non-musician who does music mixing and recording as a hobby, I've got to say that I prefer a well mixed and mastered record to live sound. To me, live sound is simply inferior in clarity and nuance. That said, the emotional impact of actually being in the room with the musicians and hearing new melodies morph and transform in reaction to my presence is definitely something that cannot be reproduced.
Studio recordings strive to be a perfect, idealized image of the music. Live sound is much more visceral.
@@piotrgraniszewski8544 you raise a great point that I'll agree with. Properly recorded sound can sound better than a live performance, but I've seen and have experienced both scenarios where either one is better than the other which depends on many variables. I was just pointing out the fact that many audiophiles want to achieve the effect of a musician or singer performing live in their rooms which is simply impossible to do. Realizing that may save a lot of frustration and money.
@@kennygsmooth83: I am glad that we could elaborate on the subject together.
@@piotrgraniszewski8544 most definitely!! 😊
@@piotrgraniszewski8544 well said. I've seen many great acts live that I was extremely disappointed with because the audio quality sucked. I demand audio quality, live or recorded. Guess that's why I hate punk rock, or whatever it's called nowadays.
I'm a musician. And I'm a sound engineer and producer. And I'm definitely not an audiophile. When I make music and when I mix music, I do that for ALL people, my music and my mix should sound good on every system, at least to some extend. We don't mix for high end systems, most of us at least. And what you mentioned, we mix for emotion, for impact.
Many years ago I listened to a demo of a very expensive amp and speaker set and was blown away when they played a classical guitar piece and then a string ensemble piece. It was incredible! However, when someone put in a rock cd it was... it still sounded beautiful, clean. It wasn't rock anymore. Then someone put in a house cd and that was even worse. The bass drum just bounced and was deep, but it was missing every form of character. It was TOO clean. See where I'm going with this? This high end sound is not always the best for what you hear and some music actually sounds worse on a high end system than it does on a cheaper system. This may not be everybody's experience, some will totally disagree. But I want to ask, how many of you audiophiles have acoustically treated your room for audio, to give space to the sound waves? How many may actually have a 10000 dollar system sounding like a 200 dollar system because of standing waves, room resonance and lost bass because it can't "breathe"? Think hard. Cause these are the things we audio engineers care about. We have found that treating the room makes a thousand times more difference than a shielded cable or a 3000 dollar speaker. We actually truly care about sound, but in a very different and I think more scientific way.
Agreed. I have a pretty good hifi system but sometimes I'll throw the wall in my Panasonic portable cassette player and set it down next to me and just jam it all the way through.
I agree, the room is the most important thing. It is also pretty cheap to fix unwanted reverbs and echoes.
Your experience is due to the audiophile’s bias based on the types of music that they listen to. If you put together a system that makes acoustic instruments sound good because you only listen to classical, then that system probably does not sound good for rock or electronic music.
This is why I think my system sounds ok with all music because I built it with a focus on making all kinds of music sound good.
Im a musician and I want my audio as flat as possible in order to hear what I'm making
exactly...we dont want enhancements
@@banjominer9682 we want to make the music enhanced so that it sounds good on everything
I’m a musician, but I invest in high end audio. I love to listen to music as much as I love to make it.
Same here.
The older I get, the less I value pristine recordings and the more I value honest, realistic music. It doesn’t have to be perfect, it just has to make you feel good.
Not to mention the fact that as people get older their hearing acuity declines. I laughed recently at Neil Young complaining about the quality of modern recordings. As an old rocker it is highly unlikely that he can hear any frequencies above about 9 KHz and probably after a lifetime of blowing out his eardrums with loud music much less than that.
Musicians live in the real world where spending 500 for audioquest patch cables doesn’t make sense
And musical gears are expensive. you spend thousands and thousands just to get the sound that you want to produce, but the key is that it's what you 'produce' when you are a musician, whereas that audioquest patch cable can only 'reproduce' at best.
$500 on a patch cable to listen to music recorded with $100 mics running through decades-old corroded patch bays, a few stages of 90s A->D conversion, and carried on Hosa patch cables. Pedalboards are even funnier as now you've got a dozen blocks of die-cast medal running on sketchy power supplies bodged together with unbalanced cables handling a signal in the hundreds of millivolts with mostly analog circuitry, sometimes also decades old, sometimes then running into a tube amp mic'd up with an SM57 in a basement with comforters hanging over chairs...and you can make a platinum album like that, but audiofools will pay thousands for cable elevators.
So it's OK to be ENTHUSIASTIC about CARS but not SPEAKERS? wtf
@@panzerfan And they spend 400 grand on a car and that's COOL but not hi fi. Isn't that just a little bit hypocritical? People are allowed to spend mony on what they like. People think canned music is EVIL when it's played on a high end stereo system, but canned music from their bluetooth shit speakers is still just as EVIL isn't it? It's still canned music still. Why should reproduction quality and expense make it evil? wtf
Proves my point that musicians know how modern recordings are often made and that's why we're reluctant to invest in super-high end audio. I'm interested in high-end audio to a logical extent but I'm not going to chase the dragon as I know some do. The only reason I'm into high-end audio is because l like to listen to and reverse-engineer production ideas. Getting that separation of sound so I can hear details is what I like. Again, going to insane levels isn't important to me.
Same with cars. Sure I'd love to ride in a 2M hyper car but the differences between that and a 80K Corvette or the acceleration you can get in a Tesla are only important to those who care about the nuances that blur the lines between the thrill you get out of use and the thrill you get via pride of ownership/investment.
If someone said "I love you" through the phone,would you care about the noisy bad line? Same with music.
This is the most profound thing I’ve heard since long time.
That’s a really interesting way to look at it.... can’t say I disagree.
I would still be annoyed by the noisy bad line, and if it was the first time they were saying it, I'd probably be excited, but still annoyed about the line...
Wow, what a great answer.
this just hits different
I’ve talked about this with a couple of my colleagues, we all either record or mix in the studio most days of the week. And it is true, apart from some guys using their stage in-ears to listen to music on the go, nobody owns high end audio gear privately. The consensus was, that for most who spend all day listening critically on pro equipment in a great room, it’s actually a relief to have a little less detail for recreational listening after work.
Simple: Diminishing returns makes anything less fun.
Very insightful.
Perfect answer IMO. $10 000 more over a pre-amp, power amp or speaker that is 1% better. Simply out of my price range.
I’m a musician.
When I have money, I upgrade the quality of gear that I use to MAKE music not REPRODUCE it.
So I’ll buy a mic or a mic preamp or something for recording.
And the second reason is that I monitor using inexpensive ($400 new in the 80’s) Yamaha NS-10m’s.
You will see those white speaker cones in studios all over the world.
They have become a standard in the industry because ...
mixes that sound good on NS-10m’s will sound good anywhere.
Those expensive speakers are one of the last purchases I could afford to make.
That's right and PMC5.22, Dynaudio Proac ATC, Gershmsn studios Focal speakers.
I agree! Genelec 1030s or 1031s... we all have favorites. Some of those may be expensive indeed, but in a practical way!
Nailed it, that's the reason why we're broke we go accuracy rather than intended crap
Mixing on ns10s after a couple hours makes one hate music and life..
I was told that no sound equipment can match the quality of music that she plays in her mind.
Actually Paul, it's a "James Bowie" knife. David Bowie is a musician! But we know what you mean.
Russ (This is my father's name, therefore, you're not only correct, but also great!): We've made Paul consider musicians, here, this time around. This is why his mind came up with 'David' instead of James!
I thought that was a cool slip of the tongue. :)
David Jones renamed himself after the Bowie knife.
The surname "Bowie" does exist in the UK and is though to be of Scottish origin.
Coincidentally our Dave had at least some Scottish ancestry.
That sort of slip up will get you kicked right out of Colorado.
Kind of a neat malapropism, though.
The irony of audiophiles.
Song being recorded with mediocre equipment being listened to ridiculously expensive equipment.
I just imagined audiophile Grimes fans, listening to music mixed on a laptop in headphones through a $30,000 stereo and orgasming about overtones and clarity that even the paid Grammy-awarded mastering engineer didn't hear in his lifetime, ever :D
@@PerkeleKeyboardist When making music the microphones and programs will capture and create and deal with frequencies you can't even hear as a human being, much less any crappy speakers you choose to work with. Then, it's up to the speakers and equipment to play it back properly. Not much people really invest in quality sound, but a $1,000 investment can get you a very nice home theater setup to enjoy movies and music in ways you never could otherwise.
@@mariomguy yeah, a pair of studio-grade reference monitors, exactly such as those the music is being mixed on. Anything else, be it $10 Aliexpress earbuds or $20,000 peudiophile stereo is just distroting the musical information in comparison to the intended sound observed by mixing engineer, i.e. lying.
Belive it or not mist bigger comerical release for time are mixed in a studio
@@PerkeleKeyboardist LOL, wow. And yet, studio monitors all vary in quality, bass response, mid performance, and treble highs. Every single pair of headphones "lies" because none of them can reproduce perfectly flat, nor should they be expected to.
Poor quality headphones will round out highs and provide muddy or missing bass. Medium-grade headphones will cut out midtones, some worse than others. Even studio monitors struggle with accurate highs because that's just a limitation with most magnetic drivers.
A good set of monitors can reproduce music accurately, honestly, and with great quality. The more you spend, the more you'll tend to improve on all fronts, with diminishing returns past $150-$400. You don't need to spend $20,000 to get something decent to mix with, but you do need something. And the higher up you go, the better reproduction you'll get. But every pair of headphones is different.
Listening is such a subjective experience. When I was a kid, all I could afford was a $5 portable AM radio. But it didn't stop me falling in love with music.
thats right
they call them "starving musicians" you know. :) Mechanics drive the crappiest cars and chefs eat package ramen. lol...
In Germany we have a saying which goes like "Des Schusters Kinder laufen barfuß" which would directly translate to 'The shoemakers kids are walking barefeet'. It seems not too uncommon. My Explanation is, that handymen know that they could repair their stuff when needed, so there is no urge to do it now as long as things are still working. Doesn't translate to the musician, though...
@@dustrider9306 Heyyyy, we have the same saying here in Finland (at least almost exactly). "Shoemaker's kids don't have shoes"
Cobbler's children in
Audiophiles often go to more sterile sounds because they think it sounds more articulate. They like harsher tones and when something has a burr brown chip they say it’s muddy or outdated lmao.
They think brighter and thinner is more articulate . Even if something is equally articulate and has all articulations , if it is warm, they will say it’s muddy.
In fairness some guitarists do this too and often go to the high mid emphasis as clear which is also a mistake.
But audiophiles often want unrealistic delivery of sounds and thinks wider soundstages are always best or hearing things that are meant to be obscured is best.
They overlook the art of music and think it’s about looking at it under a microscope.
It’s the equivalent of me taking a photo and over sharpening it and thinking because I can see the pores in everyone’s face in a photo the photo is now better.
Audiophile equipment is way overrated for sure. Iv seen this myself looking into DACs and amps.
They worry about specs and not the actual music lol . They think music sounds better when they buy an overly powerful amplifier that is way more horsepower than they need .
@@heythere6983 You are generalizing big time. So many of us audiophiles are anything like what you described. The problem is the elitists in our hobby. They are the loudest( publications etc..) and so many people think that is what an audiophile is.
I am a musician, I have a decent system, i will invest in my system in the future even more. But I have no illusion to make it sound live, this is an audiophile illusion/dream I am not chasing, because I know it is not possible. So what I want to say is that many musicians are more realistic about HiFi.
Exactly. Too many audiophiles either believe in or ar chasing the "sounds like the band is in your room" nonsense. It's marketing garbage.
It's true.
THANKES YOU KIND SIR,.AND WELL STATETDES! THUMBBES UPSS!
Like everyone else, I’ve been to plenty of live shows that sound crappy. We accept it as a part of the experience. It’s only when you go to a venue that cares about audio-like Austin City Limits-do you appreciate what good music and good sound are like together.
@@captainwin6333 marketing it is, very true
Maybe because high end sound is still a thousand miles from sounding like live music. So to a musician the difference between high end sound and a boom box doesn't seem very significant.
I'm an engineer and musician. I've had a pair of Mackie HR824 Mk1 monitors for about 20 years. They are the foundation of my entertainment system. The joy they have brought me is immeasurable. Any kind of music sounds amazing.
This dude is the Mister Rogers of audio. Such a soothing and nurturing angelic voice explaining high end audio theories and facts to us all lol!!!
I'm a professional musician and an audiophile. Most of the comments are spot on, lots of us are broke. I'm fortunate work in a military band and there is a small group of audiophiles in it. Not everyone will agree with me, but I believe I understand both perspectives.
Most of us that were also audiophiles, also worked in sound production, recording, mixing, etc.
When I am in the rehearsal hall hearing people practice, there's a visceral part to it. The low brass, timpani, drums, bass, etc all hit you in the chest. When I mix, I want that same effect, and I want to hear it the same way I do when I'm in rehearsal or sitting in front of the band during a tune I don't play in.
I aim for the same sound and feel in my home system which is only attainable through high end audio (on a musician's budget - yes it's possible).
Now for the musicians that don't care for high end audio. That one is simple in my opinion.
We are surrounded by music all day. As much as I love it, its hard work. My ears are exhausted and need a rest by the end of the day.
This is blasphemy in the audio community, but after a hard day's work we just need some peace and quiet! lol
I love the system I put together, and it sounds like the musicians are right there. But after hearing music all day all week, I tend to save the audio for my weekends, and listen to music that I don't play. It reminds me why I fell in love with music and audio in the first place.
I think I would call myself a budget audiophile!
@Bon Johnvie, you said it best, yes siree😌
I believe that we focus on sound quality; musicians focus on the music.
No, musicians focus on sound quality that everybody hears. Audiophiles focus on sound quality only they hear.
Musicians focus on tone.
@@housebandthexenos2569 Only they convince themselves they hear to justify wasting so much money
I’ve asked many as I worked with them over 30 years - always the same answer “I hear it in my head”. Boring and short answer time and time again.
gary boates This is what I was going to say ... *sound* is in the ear-brain, *music* exists in the mind. Those are two different realities.
When I hear music in my head the highs and lows are severely rolled off. I need to have a good system to replace what gets lost in my brain.
Can confirm. The sound is in their heads.
i'm a musician but also love hi-fi, i listen to music all day so i get a lot of benefit from a good system. but also i "play songs in my head" if there isnt music, its almost involuntary
Crazy idea - if you want to know what musicians think, ask a musician... 😂
Yeah most people here do not know anything about music.
I now a lot of other band members, music teachers and so on. We do not have the time to sit and listen to music. If you have 2 hours free after a long day work. You’ll use the 2 hours to practice your instrument.
The only people who sit in a quiet room to listen to music are unemployed. Or living with their parents. If you have your house to clean. Food to cook, shopping, work and hobbies and kids. There’s no way you have time to sit and listen to music or even read books
Most of us musicians who buy expensive audio is just to watch movies with the family.
In my case I bought a 1000 euro speakers because I can. The difference of 100 euro to 1000 euro is nothing. Only 900 euro. I couldn’t care less.
The question came from a musician and was regarding his musician friends, so presumably he already knew what musicians think
I didn't know David Bowie made knives ;)
That’s because they are so rare. Most knifophiles have never even seen a David Bowie knife and plebes like us would not really appreciate the superior quality of a $2 million pre-CBS cobalt-molybdenum blade Ziggy Stardust boning knife.
As a musician, I can tell you that what I hear when listening to my Skull Candy earphones is not what's coming out of the earphones. My brain fills in all the complexity of the music that I've heard before (and some that I haven't! Hello, misheard lyrics), and incorporates that into the experience of listening to my earphones. It's the imagination that fills in the gaps in audio quality to some degree, and I'm sure everybody is like this to some extent. Why I'm interested in high end audio (and why I even have a high end audio system at all! i.e. monitors) is to record my own music. Mind you, I would've wanted a good audio system anyway eventually, turntable and everything, but recording music is a much greater impetus for me towards developing a good audio system than listening to music. If you can RECORD your music the best, it will translate the best to a multitude of other devices, and so more people can enjoy more of your song's reproduction than if you had a crappy recording, though a moving song is always a moving song, no matter how well it's recorded, which is why I still love listening to the demo version of Catamaran by Yawning Man, as I like that performance better than the official version, though it's great too. Just some insight from a musician
Usually because musicians are broke!
Usually because it sounds nothing like their instruments whether that's natural instruments or electric like guitars. No musician has ever been fooled by audiophile gear versus the real thing. Ever.
@@captainwin6333 Yet, when I go see shows, most of the time, their audio is really sub-par....
If you buy audiophile equipment 2nd hand it does not have to be expensive.
Even some rich ones have sub-par/average gear (see Jimmy Page)
forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/great-photos-of-musicians-with-hi-fi-gear.941493/
Stereophile interviewed John Lee Hooker. He was using a cassette playing am/fm table top radio. He heard the music in his head, not by his ears.
This is how I see it, people always want what they can't have.
A musician can reproduce the sound of a live performance in a room whenever they want audiophiles can't without spending alot of money.
Most Musicians I believe are satisfied sonically with their own raw organic sound so they don't crave that desire to get closer to the music like an audiophile as they are literally creating and hearing the music in its truest form.
An audiophile that doesn't play an instrument may not hear a live piano or guitar in a room all that often so that sound is 'special' to them where as a musician most likely takes that sound for granted, which isn't that unusual as most people start playing at a very young age so it has always been normal and accessible to them.
"David Bowie knives" priceless.
David got the name from the knife, not vice versa. It was actually named after Jim Bowie.
@@5roundsrapid263 Exactly. Thus my sarcasm. I'm from Texas so the history is ingrained.
Yes, Paul is hilariously confusing David Bowie the musician with Jim Bowie knives.
@@davidryle I grew up on the MS/LA border, not far from where the Sandbar Fight happened.
Paul I just found your channel and am happy be apart of this experience. I am a pro audio engineer but mentored by two brilliant HIFI designer and engineers. I asked them this same quesition for years . They sat me down told me this : Mickey audio is learnt . People listen to what has been given to them over the year as the grow up . So always show them the difference , teach them and then they will understand as they hear the difference " so if you introduce them to listen to a better or accurate audio they will make the change . However there is an economical factor . In one my mentor's counseling advised that " cheaper audio equipment and quality audio can not be used in the same sentence " lol. So to get the correct results it is not necessarily affordable and not knowing what is correct accurate audio is learnt . Although there are a number of new product on market that are great quality but if you have to know what to listen for that would give you some good and above average audio.
All of this experience I have used to teach musicians and quite their fears as they do what you to change the audio characteristics of the instrument . So muscians use what have as the dont knon any better or can afford . ok There are a lot more things but this is the fundamental reason. Hope this helps. I hope you read this Paul
Thanks
That is something I've noticed, a lot of my friends listen to music on €10 earbuds and are totally happy with it but then as soon as I let them try my audio technicas they realise how dull the super cheap ones sound. I know it's nowhere near proper hifi quality or anything but there's a huge jump between the sound of €10 earbuds and €100 headphones that a lot of people don't realise is there until they try it
@@ceinodowd1841 well said . That the point . There are a number of head phone oout there now the sound very good . But as you have done listener would know until they hear the difference
There is a point of diminishing return when paying for "audiophile" level equipment. I want to hear a quality reproduction, but don't need artificial "airy" sounds from a fancy power cable that cost more than all the standard instrument & power cables my band used combined.
I’m both a musician and audiophile. For me is all about the sound! I need to have the best sound when I listen to music and when I play my instrument.
As a Musician, I think audio equipment should just produce the sound accurately and get out of the way
The emotional and nostalgia of listening to music should always come first, quality second. As a audiophile and musician I believe this is the reason we love music. I don't think many people remember certain song from there youth, that reminded them of someone or some fond event and though...wow what a great recording. Of course the music takes a whole new level of experience when the quality is great, but never forget why we listen to music in the first place.
I'm 54 been playing guitar from age ten and I happen to be the proud owner of a set of AR 3's powered by a set of Mac 50's .You should run this question by Rick Beato . I would love to hear his answer
The thing is, the emotional connection to music can be had through a transistor radio, or a supermarket PA system, and this how I believe most musicians view it. When I connect with music, I don’t care where the bass player was stood in relation to the guitar player, and what brand of strings he was using. I’ve relaxed how I listen to music these days, no longer always rigidly sat between the speakers, as though in a Victorian photographer’s brace! That said, I do value the ability of an audio system to convey the dynamics and impact of the music, which is something many cheap audio systems fail to do.
I think like Paul said, the musicians are looking for that emotional connection that compare to live music no hi-end system in the world can match.
Especially when they are the ones playing the actual instrument. Live music to them is more about the experience of playing.
It is the same reason countless wagers have been sitting out there for decades challenging "audiophiles" to put their money where their mouths are in blind listening tests. As long as a marketer can say..."Well John, you can't hear the difference in these $800 speaker wires because not everyone has the ear for it"....there will be a market. Oh...gotta run...I see some dust on my Mark Levinson ....
My father was a professional musician with a world renowned orchestra. To him the sound from a perfect recording through an awesome hiding was nothing like the sounds (plural) on the stage or in the orchestra pit, which were filled with groans, grunts and other noises of players at work. On the other hand, get him into the audience and he didn’t care about the seat and what view it gave, he was there to listen and gauge how well the conductor had balanced the sound given the acoustics of the concert hall.
For acoustic musicians who are into hi-fi, violin myself, and I've heard a clarinetist say the same thing, the reproduced versions of their instruments are so far off from the real thing it's hopeless. Most of the times the sound is ruined at the mixing board, never mind the rest of the playback chain. Itzhak Perlman has said he struggles with recording engineers every time to get a what he considers a good violin sound from his recordings. What you said about the communication of the content and intent of their work rings true. It's like cellphones, if you're interested in getting a message across, you just need enough clarity. The rest is on the communicator.
I'm a musician, and I'm fanatical about my stereo sound. Finally have a system that satisfies my hunger, after all these years of trial and error. But, most of my friends do not share my passion.
Cause they usually listen to live music?
Musicians are obsessed with playing perfectly, not getting perfect sound from their audio system.
Exactly my man , when I record a video of a solo don’t give a damn of the quality of the video or the sound, just wanted to hear the vibe and play on time, comment on point, 👍🏿
Wrong. You simply don’t know what you speak!
In composition class, one classmate was always whining about the quality of the speakers and the fact that her midi wasn't set right to play the score, until on day our teacher said something like "Oh, shut up. Mozart played in 8 bit on a nokia 3310 is still Mozart!"
David Bowie knives?! I want a David Bowie knife. ;-)
(Jim Bowie was the knife guy, well it was named for him anyway)
Classical musicians and music critics tend to value performance over reproduction. They can hear a great performance through the grunge of a pre-1950's recording, which I as an audiophile have never been able to do.
WR Day exactly! I’m an orchestra conductor and was given the side eye when purchasing Dvorak cello concerto produced by a “not great record company” ...it was Rostropovich and the performance is incredible so I didn’t care about it being the ‘best pressing”
Now imagine music teachers working remotely during the pandemic who judge their students' performances on crappy, distorting laptop speakers. It's real. It doesn't bother them one bit!
Piotr Graniszewski in defense, it’s a very long road from student to what we listen to on recordings. The amount of time and work people like Anthony McGill put in to get to where we can listen to him with the NY Philharmonic would leave jaws on the floor for many. For students during the pandemic, there’s a lot we can hear, assess, and teach disregarding tone quality of their instrument though a medium like Teams or Zoom/crap speakers. Rhythm, interpretation, technique, etc. What’s fascinating about being a musician and audiophile is that I listen in very different ways. The critical listening nature of being a conductor puts us inside the music in an enviable way. We hear details that even live audiences can’t discern, and what I like reading about is the similarities in some terminology and how the definitions of those words are so different. It’s fascinating to hear how different carts are more “musical” or has better “rhythm”.
It's like pro racing diver don't always need to get their kicks driving supercars in everyday life.
The guitars and amps already cost enough man don’t do this to me!
Audiophiles listen to equipment and cables. Music lovers listen to music.
I can help with this answer being that I’ve been a musician for over 40 years professional musicians are playing and practicing their instruments so much that they really don’t have time to listen to music all that much I remember some days practicing my guitar over 8 to 10 hours then having band rehearsals several times a week and keeping a full time job my focus had to be my instrument and getting better on it the only time I would listen to music at all was to learn a song that my band wanted to cover so why have top end audio if you don’t have time to use it it was only till I wasnt so much in the band seen did I start to get into high end audio
The emulated outputs of older preamps are ususally just capcitors and resistes to rool foo the treble and make it sound like a speakers. The digitals stuff from DIGITECH and Fenders is waaaay betters. ALesus 3630 compressor is what Scott Groves uses I DOnt like Orange. Blackster or Rob and the Chappers dfrom andertoins!!! THANKES YOUES AND THUBMMES UPS
Nobody practices that long.
Wow, what a long sentence. Punctuation marks are overrated ?
My haute cuisine teacher, who also became my friend, once called me asking if I knew a good deliverable pizza. In a totally pedantic tone, I said him "excuse me sir, I do my pizzas by myself!". Answer was a lot of 🤬🤬 and a huge laugh. Regards from Lima, Peru.
I’ve been a musician for over a decade who new into chasing good stereo sound.
I too was fine with crappy Best Buy systems until I heard audiophile ones.
But still I doubt at any price it would replace playing with a band and hearing actual live music.
That is how i see it also. Just find a good balance between good affortable music systems but never take it too high because you are going to miss the real goal. Emotion. Music is emotion. You can not catch music to its real purpose when you aim only to quality systems at home.
The idea is not to replace musicians and live music, but to be able to enjoy the closest thing you can get to that in your own home.
Also, to be able to hear musicians of the past who are no longer with us, as they sounded when making the recording.
@@Hare_deLune My point is that some house audio systems are more expensive then the recording studio where the record was made in. And i have a decent system myself but some audiophiles gets more excited because of the sound that comes to life in their own houses then they get goosebumbs from the music itselfs which you can also get from lower priced systems. no offence btw to you 👍
@@Hare_deLune If you are interested in truly old recordings, a boom box is probably adequate. I listened to an FM classical station while working and would sometimes amaze my helpers by pointing out that the music playing was a very old 78 rpm recording. They always asked how I knew, and it was the lack of dynamic range and frequency response that gave it away, even on a job site radio. I never claimed to be a classical music expert (although perhaps I should have, to mess with their heads.)
@@obsprisma
No offence taken.
If one does their homework and knows what to look for, then there is absolutely no reason to spend obscene amounts of money on a Hi-Fi system, unless one has more money than sense. : )
Musician and producer here... the emotion and atmosphere and balance of sound is the most important thing. Good music sounds good on any audio set up.
1. Because we have no money.
2. Because in blind tests I bet 'audiophiles' can't actually tell the difference.
That's why audiophiles LOVE vinyl. Because there is no way on earth to make it a truly blind comparison and they can always pick out the playback from vinyl and claim it to be superior to be digital only because they know it's vinyl. They are the ultimate expression of confirmation bias.
@@chuckschillingvideos Nobody says that vinyl is superior to lossless digital ya dimwit
Audiophiles listen to the sound of the speakers, musicians listen to the sound of the idea.
Nailed it.
As a musician I appreciate and insist on quality audio reproduction for my music, especially because I record and produce my own music. However the very process of recording instruments introduces losses that when played back on high end audio cannot recreate the true sound of live instruments. No high end audio equipment can compare with the sound of a real instrument. Musical instruments are the real deal and cost much less. When I want high end audio I just pick up my guitar.
But most Guitar songs are done through hooking them up to an amplifier. Unless we are talking about playing acoustic guitar in a small room, the moment you hook your instrument to a piece of electrical technology you are doing the same.
The best example of what you are trying to say would be a violinist. Being in the presence of a master playing in an acoustically treated concert hall is something that no audio can reproduce the same.
Musicians are smarter! btw I have never seen a musician discuss the brand of cabling for the studio monitors in the Abbey Road studios or Electric Ladyland, that should be more than a clue...
True. Never once have I spent more than $35 on a power cable for rack gear costing hundreds of times more than that in the studio, on the electronics bench, for any guitar amplifier I've ever owned, or for any audio equipment that I've owned. That said, I have spent outrageous amounts on instruments over the years; many hundreds of thousands over the last 45 years.
Manure Hippo you’ve never heard a musician discuss studio cabling because audio engineers & studio technicians handle that. Virtually all professional studios, especially Abbey Road and, ahem, Electric Ladyland - which hasn’t existed as such for 40 years, by the way - use high end cabling & terminations, brands like Canare, Mogami and Neutrik. You should ask a musician who’s also an engineer.
Manure Hippo I’ve never heard an engineer discussing ANY technical aspect at Abbey Road studios.And I’ve been playing there on a regular basis for forty years.
What I do hear, as a regular occurrence,are musicians,engineers and ProTool recordists talking about the essence of the musical performance.
Many audiophiles aren’t fortunate to have that insight into music so they obsess on the misplaced notion of technology as a musical surrogate.
It’s just a fetishistic claim to Enlightenment.
As a musician and engineer and appreciator of great sounding audio, i agree with your premise that we care more about the performance than the sound of it, and as other commenters have mentioned cost is an issue, but i would like to add that the knowledge base for hi end audio and creating music has almost no overlap, and a lot of us have very little bandwidth or time left to learn a whole other area to able to participate actively in high end audio stuff and not get fleeced.
Maybe a follow up question to this would be... how many high end audio enthusiasts are accomplished musicians?
Musicians are about creation, Audiophiles are about consumption.
As a musician myself and knowing plenty of them... yeah, music is also about consumption. Super expensive hobby for sure.
Replace 'consumption' by 'enjoyment' and you shaved off the false pride.
@@casaninchiify Enjoyment is a state of consumption.
@@See_Sharp..so I misread your self-exaltation? Then pardon me.
What is the last thing in the world that a gynecologist wants to see when he gets home?
Hillary Clinton; the world's biggest one.
@@mka4pol we're talking about music. Keep you politics to yourself!
@@zenwarrior3603 Normally I would, as I'm basically apolitical; but it was such a good setup...
a messy kitchen
The mechanic’s car doesn’t run right, the plumber’s pipes leak, the nurse makes a lousy patient, the barber needs a haircut, the psychiatrist is impolite...
Most Electronic Musicians care about the soundsystem, cause they know how to mix and master.
Lol..... Most don't understand the difference between mixing and mastering....
@DJElectrolux…totally true,,i write electronic music,,and have an audiophile system.
@@promethiousb1489 Nice, do you have a link or a name so that i could take a listen? ;)
@DJ electrolux…i got an early EP on Bandcamp,,
True. The more you mix the more your ear evolves towards quality.
But at the same time most regular producers that I know of electronic music are not used to the real high end because they are sold crap by the marketing.
A good mix is equally enjoyable on a boombox, in a car, or everywhere. Maybe that's the reason.
As soon as I heard classical musician who is an audiophile I went, "oh, that type..."
Yeah me too. When I heard musician I assumed a Fender, Marshall or Vox fan!
What's that supposed to mean...
There are some Musicians with high end audio. Check out Henry Rollins stuff.
@
Why do you think H.R. is not? What is your definition of 'musician'?
What / how should music sound?
As far as i know HR is AND a musician AND a spoken word artist.
MY definition of music is that it should move me emotionally. Whether the musician has a beautiful voice (Tori Amos) or sounds like sanding paper (Henry Rollins) i do not care; it is the emotion that he or she puts in the music. And, to make things even harder, that differs per person: some people like the music of Adele, while for me i imagine that mainly producers and businessmen define her music.
@Redpill Progressive Comedy gold right there ! Aww the hero of the disenfranchised closeted male.
Oh, Henry Rollins is an audiophile? That's pretty cool
It amazes me that Rollins has sold enough of that “music” to afford a $500k system
Redpill Progressive
Lol
Musicians & audiophiles (or audio enthusiasts) most of the time are 2 different types of people. Every so often, the 2 find themselves in the same body.
Musicians often reach the 'diminishing returns' point much faster than non-musicians 😉
I wonder the percentage of audiophiles that can play an instrument or even hold a tune might be telling
Hi Paul und Matthias. Nein, zet is not korrekt. Yes, you are correct that there are few true audiophile 'nuts' who will spend $10,000+ on an amp and speakers but all of my German friends, who are all musicians, have all invested in audiophile equipment at some stage. One guy borrowed $5,000 30 years ago to buy the top of the range audiophile system. Others can't afford it. We'd rather invest in good musical equipment... but those who can afford both do so.
It’s because most hi/fi systems are terrible at recreating the live sound.
Depends on what you mean by live sound.
What if it's a studio album.
Most live music is performed through a mixing board and amplified PA systems...so, disagree. On the other hand, if you are just reproducing unamplified classical music, your comment has more truth. However, when you get recordings without compression of a live instrument, like a piano, the best systems sound very similar. But most audio engineers don't release full range, non compressed recordings because 98% of the systems would have a melt-down.
exactly... buy klipsch or jbl horn loaded if u want close to live sound.
@@jacobbrown1690 yea ok
I don’t have any musical talent whatsoever, but I’m always chasing that “perfect” sound that others have created, when I hear something good on a high end system, it gives me goose bumps.
I’m a professional record producer, mixer and studio owner, having worked on hundreds of albums.
Like most mixers, I use decent loudspeakers, costing no more than a couple of thousand dollars to mix music.
Whenever I meet an audiophile who tells me that they like my music and the way it sounds on their high end system, they are shocked to hear it was made on speakers costing 1/10 of the pair they own.
Us music producers don’t care so much about the super high fidelity. What’s important to us is that the essential qualities of the mix will be reproduced on as many different systems possible.
As a musician I have wondered the same for years until I finally got in to it recently....no turning back now.
As a musician, I’ll answer it this way: when I spend time listening to music, it’s often not for enjoyment (tho it’s inaccurate to say I don’t enjoy it....). Rather, I listen to music either to learn it, or to gain inspiration. Further, no matter how much money I spend, the system won’t duplicate a live performance. Therefore,I want to be able to hear the music clearly. If it does that, it’s all I need. Lastly, I’m far more interested in music - making gear than music - reproducing gear. Great question! Great video thank you!
Musicians spend their money on instruments etc, instead of hi fi gear, because they prefer to actively play music rather than passively sit and listen. Having a multi thousand dollar hi fi listening system at home is of no value to a professional musician. Between practicing, rehearsals, traveling, studio sessions, teaching lessons, etc., most professional musicians have little time to sit and listen to music for the sake of the quality of the hi fi set up. They spend their money on the tools of trade. The truth is, for a professional recording musician, a cheap bluetooth speaker or a boombox is of more value than the most expensive setup that Ps Audio could ever build for you. For a musician that has a trial mix of a song he or she is working on, hearing the mix on speakers that resemble the millions of speakers that the Music buying public heard music on, rather than hearing it on something that a few crazy rich guys will ever own. It's very common for studio producers, mixing and mastering engineers to assess their work on a variety of inexpensive listening gear. Back in the day, studios would often have a tiny 4 inch reference speaker to hear what a track will sound like in mono on, on AM radio, in a car.
I think you'd have to had the experience of performing live music to fully understand that. Not all musicians are audiophiles and vice versa
Most audiophiles have no idea how to play an instrument. That makes this "world of audio" strange. Trying to get the best sound out of your system but having no clue how a real instrument sounds like in real life.
@@obsprisma
Therefore, the knife cuts both ways.
@Kris Moodley 😄 same here but I could never duplicate my live music....40 years and counting. Once an audiophile always an audiophile.
I wonder how much of it has to do with many musicians have some form of hearing loss. I have a sharp roll off in my hearing response a little above middle C caused by participating in marching band and shooting sports without hearing protection when I was in my teens. A marching snare drum and a 12 gauge shotgun are wonderful devices to eventually cause deafness. It was the 70s and we did a lot of things that could have caused us permanent harm.
I want a better system, but I can't tell what's really good because I can't hear the high end.
so just because your vision gets worse, you suddenly enjoy the paintings in the doctors waiting room with pottery barn stamped in the bottom corner? Nah bro.
because I need glasses all the sudden I don't enjoy pretty girls anymore?
The truth is... us musicians are writing music for 99% of people to listen to on shitty headphones and crappy speakers. It’s all about the notes and the gaps between them, rather than how shiny the notes are. 😎😋
Hearing one’s music on high end kit... sure, it’s a delight. But it’s something you do once in a blue moon, or it’s not a treat. 🎁💝
I am a jazz musician, and music director in venues. My experience is people in general don't listen to music much. There is music playing everywhere and many people have forgotten how to listen or even why music exists. It is bound to leak over to musicians also...strangely. There hasn't been awareness of good sound quality or people even ever being exposed to it.
I made an intention to by a high end(as much as I could afford) system , when I realized I had stopped listening as an experience. I worked on music everyday, transcribing or composing or arranging. I would hear things and see what could inspire ideas etc...but the experience I had as a teenager where I would sit down and just listen to a whole record at one sitting didn't happen. The visceral, emotional experience of listeing to a high end system was something that I missed. Now I take time to just listen. High end gear makes this happen to me. It is beautiful. I try to evangelize this concept...not much luck. Attention spans ar shorter I guess, and we all enter life with a different level of awareness...some more emotional or sensual than others