It would be great to see you use an oversized backer when pattern testing loads. That way if you pull a shot, or if your guns's point of impact with a particular choke/load combination is different with each, you can still get a better visual of each choke/load's overall pattern density and locate the shot's core. An old wooden pallet and a cheap roll of paper from a hardware store is a good and inexpensive option. With the high cost of TSS shells ($10-$15 per round), this option would pay for itself quickly in the event you suspected you pulled a shot and wanted to do a reshoot to confirm the pattern. In addition, it would give your viewers a better image of the overall pattern of a particular choke/load combination. I know from pattern testing my own choke/load combinations, and from watching other pattern testing videos, that different chokes and loads can produce significant changes in a pattern core's point of impact. I think this might be helpful to both you and your viewers and increase the number of views/subscriptions to your channel. Keep up the good work!
Thank you for the insight, certainly something I’ll take into consideration! I agree, there was some information lost or skewed by the shot being pulled. Also would be nice to know if a center combo truly does impact high, right etc. Do you think the shot with the Longbeard Xr choke would have been competitive if the core hit the center of the paper? If so I may do a retest to see!
Without an adjustable sight on a gun, NOBODY, IMO, should be shooting beyond 40-45 yards at a turkey, especially in a flock. That said, nobody would have to spend ridiculous amounts of money on TSS to harvest a bird. A good lead load that has been patterned to your rig is all you really need. Patterning your rig is paramount! LongBeard is the best lead load available. I don't know why Winchester doesn't flood the market starting after New Year.
I know the Longbeard chokes that I have shot have consistently performed very well with Longbeard XR loads, which is also the case in many videos I have watched. The Indian Creek tube did a great job, which is evident by the majority of the pattern being visible on the target. Since the majority of the pattern shot with the Longbeard choke is off the target, it is hard to say with certainly which choke tube patterned the best. This is a good reason to have a backer, which would have captured the entire shot pattern that came out of the Longbeard choke. Definitely not trying to be critical, just want to provide constructive feedback that I think would help you and your viewers. Having the backer could potentially keep you from having to make a follow up test shot to confirm a patterns density and where the core of the pattern is impacting compared to your point of aim. Could save you the cost of s target or two, and/or shotshell(s).
12ga Mossberg Flex with 3” Longbeard XR #5 1050fps and an Indian Creek has been flawless over the years. Patternmaster with the same same setup is a close 2nd.
Indian Creek chokes tend to pattern everything well. Both of those choke tubes have wad stripping rings in them. They both work well with lead and TSS loads, but TSS loads will chew up the wad stripping rings. It takes a long time to affect patterns, but its hard not to notice when you look at the rings after shooting TSS.
Thanks for the video. I have an Indian Creek (from when I shot Hevi Shot ) tube but currently shoot a Carson. I'm going to try the Indian Creek this weekend! It makes sense that you got less recoil from the Indian Creek. A lot more gas escapes from an Indian Creek design. It's probably a little louder, too.
My Stoeger m3500 shoots that .650 carlson xr choke very well. Actually better than my ic,sumtoy,and kicks. Im pretty sure you shot high. I would try again on a big sheet of paper. I think you will be amazed All my testing with it are amazing. I shoot 3in 5s and 6 longbeards.
I agree, i definitely didn’t give it a fair chance! I’m certainly gonna do a reshoot, however I don’t own a red dot and that shot comes high out of my gun so I likely won’t run it until I invest in one. Thanks for the view brotha! Good luck this season!
I shoot a Benelli super Nova with a buck kicker 🦃 choke .665 with longbeard XR 3-1/2 #5 and will never change. My pattern at 40/50 yards is better than the first shot you took by far. I've dropped 🦃 in his tracks at 65 yards
@@DEVILDOG1964 Primos 560 Jellyhead. But you may also want to try the 570 Tightwad or the Cabelas BlackMaxx in 575. I had an issue with my Cabelas choke. It was cracked or cracked when I shot it. But I have seen some decent patterns out of the BlackMaxx. I think I just got a lemon. This season, I killed 4 turkeys with the 560 and the 2 3/4 inch #9’s. The first one was 35 yards; the second one was 45 to 50; the third one was 48; and the last one was 35 yards. I am not changing anything on my gun even though I think I could probably get it tighter. I am there to kill turkeys, and this set up works for me. Semper Fi, brother. I am assuming by your name you were in the Marine Corps also.
My Mossberg 835 did not like the Carlson LB choke either. I’ve never seen any shotgun like that choke. Switched to the Indian Creek .675 and it hammers XR Long Beards, Hevi-Shot Magnum Bkend in 3.5” shells. I think TSS is great for .410, 20ga, 28ga, but it’s overkill for 12ga. I’m not paying over $10 per shell when the $2 XR Longbeards kill them the same.
I would have compared my factory full choke, Indian Creek choke, & Carlson's choke. Does a turkey choke always make a difference? I never assume. Who knows? Your factory full choke may out perform the aftermarket Carlson's turkey choke. Likewise, I would never assume a nice pattern @ 40 yards justifies shooting @ 60 yards without testing. My number 1 rule when teaching/learning is "never assume"! I'm not knocking what you shared. I just feel everyone needs to test things for themselves. Red dots have become so popular in recent years, because all these new load & choke choices will sometimes change the point of impact in some (maybe most) guns.
Thanks for the feed back! I would have liked to try the factory choke, it seems most people want to see the pattern from that as well. Unfortunately I don't have the factory choke to try. You are correct, I don't think anyone should assume, I think everyone should always test for themselves. Ive been considering getting red dot, unfortunately I just don't have one yet. Thank you for the view, comment and insight! Good luck this season!
@@lockedin.productions I want to see how a turkey choke improves the pattern over a factory full choke in every video, & sadly hardly anyone does that. It's no knock on you. I have adjustable fiber optic sights on my two shotguns set up for turkeys, but my eyes are getting old. I have been exploring red dots myself. Meadow Creek offers mounting plates & red dot packages that are competitively priced. From my recent research, a Holosum 507C-GR-X2 would be my top choice, and the Gowutar A20 (green dot) would be my affordable Amazon pick. For now, I am using my TruGlo adjustable fiber optic sights. Good luck to you!
@@lockedin.productions I think Herter's TSS loads bridge a bit of a gap between LBXR & more expensive, larger TSS payloads. Their 2.75" 12 gauge & 3" 20 gauge carry the same 1.5 oz payload going 1,200 fps. A 20 gauge user might be drawn to them the most I have never used them myself, but they seem like a great value when watching others try them. I own three shotguns (10, 12, & 20 gauge), & I have an Indian Creek choke tube for each. I don't even consider anything else, but I was shooting Hevi-13 loads with them long before TSS became popular. Indian Creek is a good TSS choke, too. I've never seen a reason to try anything else.
You should have said how fast it shoots 1050 or 1200. I have both boxes and was wondering which one you were shooting. My stoeger shoots the 5 shot 1050 with an Indian Creek choke very good as well
Sorry about that, I guess I could have clarified! I put it in the coverage image hoping people would see it but it is the 1200fps. Thank you for watching 🙏
Out of my remington 870 pump turkey gun i sot a few different brands of ammo my best was wincehster 4 shot 3 inch steel shot i got the ammo on clearence $5.00 a box 35 yrds dead bird all day i dont ever see anyone shoot steel shot but i will
You shot high with that longbeard xr choke, its a wad stripping choke. I do it. I have an indian creek and carlson longbeard xr choke. Ill be a little high every time if i don’t compensate. Use a large backing like cardboard
Thank you for the insight and the view! When I purchase a red dot I’ll likely consider shooting that combo, I definitely feel like I lost the whole picture with the high shot
You changed chokes. Point of impact will change! Get a scope/red dot or some good iron sights. Even a different lot # of Longbeard xr should be re-zeroed.
Not hating but I got a better pattern with my 20ga using the Carlson choke at 40yds than you did with a 12ga. Either you shot really high or that gun really does not like that choke
The reason you found those shells is probably nobody wants them. I have done testing with 3-1/2" versus 3" and found no advantage with the larger shell.
Every shotgun shoots Every load different. Apparently yours shots that load high with the Carlson choke but you just shooting with a bead and you haven't sighted it in for the Carlson choke. I shoot the Carlson clock withe the 3 and half inch number 5"s and at 40 yards I'm taking there head off. Your analogy is not correct. You've not sighted you gun in for the choke you are using
Thank you for the feedback! I currently don't have red dot to put on it, maybe in the near future. I will likely be doing a reshoot with that combo to get a better grasp on how it performs. watching it back now, I do see where half of the shot being off the paper likely skewed my results. Thanks for the view!
We work with Kent and their turkey loads are no longer being made, if you happen to find some somewhere they are left over from prior to being discontinued
@@chuckhansen5325 Density - Hevi-Steel = 7.8 g/cc, Hevi-Bismuth = 9.6 g/cc, Lead = 11.35 g/cc, Hevi-13 = 12 g/cc, TSS = 18 g/cc, Tungsten metal = 19.28 g/cc. Tungsten is rarer than lead and it is just plain harder to work with. A melting point of 6192 °F. Compare that with lead's melting point of 621°F.
@@lockedin.productions yes! Pls do! Ur pattern was high! Shoot till you get the pattern to hit the paper target ! Remember we not askin or talking “accuracy” we talking best pattern !
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It would be great to see you use an oversized backer when pattern testing loads. That way if you pull a shot, or if your guns's point of impact with a particular choke/load combination is different with each, you can still get a better visual of each choke/load's overall pattern density and locate the shot's core. An old wooden pallet and a cheap roll of paper from a hardware store is a good and inexpensive option. With the high cost of TSS shells ($10-$15 per round), this option would pay for itself quickly in the event you suspected you pulled a shot and wanted to do a reshoot to confirm the pattern. In addition, it would give your viewers a better image of the overall pattern of a particular choke/load combination. I know from pattern testing my own choke/load combinations, and from watching other pattern testing videos, that different chokes and loads can produce significant changes in a pattern core's point of impact. I think this might be helpful to both you and your viewers and increase the number of views/subscriptions to your channel. Keep up the good work!
Thank you for the insight, certainly something I’ll take into consideration! I agree, there was some information lost or skewed by the shot being pulled. Also would be nice to know if a center combo truly does impact high, right etc. Do you think the shot with the Longbeard Xr choke would have been competitive if the core hit the center of the paper? If so I may do a retest to see!
Without an adjustable sight on a gun, NOBODY, IMO, should be shooting beyond 40-45 yards at a turkey, especially in a flock. That said, nobody would have to spend ridiculous amounts of money on TSS to harvest a bird. A good lead load that has been patterned to your rig is all you really need. Patterning your rig is paramount! LongBeard is the best lead load available. I don't know why Winchester doesn't flood the market starting after New Year.
I know the Longbeard chokes that I have shot have consistently performed very well with Longbeard XR loads, which is also the case in many videos I have watched. The Indian Creek tube did a great job, which is evident by the majority of the pattern being visible on the target. Since the majority of the pattern shot with the Longbeard choke is off the target, it is hard to say with certainly which choke tube patterned the best. This is a good reason to have a backer, which would have captured the entire shot pattern that came out of the Longbeard choke. Definitely not trying to be critical, just want to provide constructive feedback that I think would help you and your viewers. Having the backer could potentially keep you from having to make a follow up test shot to confirm a patterns density and where the core of the pattern is impacting compared to your point of aim. Could save you the cost of s target or two, and/or shotshell(s).
Spot on!
@@TDINWY that loads been out 10 years
Patternmaster code black turkey and Indian Creek are my 2 favorites for turkey loads.
Smoked a turkey from 30 yards with my Indian creek choke and long beard XR Ammo this past Sunday in Michigan, that choke tube is nuts worth the money
Congratulations on the success! It’s certainly a killer combo
12ga Mossberg Flex with 3” Longbeard XR #5 1050fps and an Indian Creek has been flawless over the years. Patternmaster with the same same setup is a close 2nd.
Indian Creek chokes tend to pattern everything well. Both of those choke tubes have wad stripping rings in them. They both work well with lead and TSS loads, but TSS loads will chew up the wad stripping rings. It takes a long time to affect patterns, but its hard not to notice when you look at the rings after shooting TSS.
Interesting, Im familiar with the rings but I did not know tss would wear on them! Thanks for the view!
Thanks for the video. I have an Indian Creek (from when I shot Hevi Shot ) tube but currently shoot a Carson. I'm going to try the Indian Creek this weekend! It makes sense that you got less recoil from the Indian Creek. A lot more gas escapes from an Indian Creek design. It's probably a little louder, too.
My Stoeger m3500 shoots that .650 carlson xr choke very well. Actually better than my ic,sumtoy,and kicks. Im pretty sure you shot high. I would try again on a big sheet of paper. I think you will be amazed
All my testing with it are amazing. I shoot 3in 5s and 6 longbeards.
I agree, i definitely didn’t give it a fair chance! I’m certainly gonna do a reshoot, however I don’t own a red dot and that shot comes high out of my gun so I likely won’t run it until I invest in one. Thanks for the view brotha! Good luck this season!
I shoot a Benelli super Nova with a buck kicker 🦃 choke .665 with longbeard XR 3-1/2 #5 and will never change. My pattern at 40/50 yards is better than the first shot you took by far. I've dropped 🦃 in his tracks at 65 yards
Man, sounds like an impressive setup! May have to give that a try. Thanks for watching and good luck to you this season!
Great video man this is my first turkey season using a 870 with the long beard xr
Thank you! I think you’ll be in good shape. We pray for you a successful season brother!
Imagine going to the super market with your wife & there are shotgun shells to buy. God bless America! ❤
Hello from the UK.
I couldn’t imagine! Thank you for watching!
I shoot LBXR #5, 3.5 inch loads in my 12 gauge. I shoot Apex #9, 2 3/4 inch in my 20 gauge. I will probably never shoot my 12 gauge again.
WHAT CHOKE AND CONSTRICTION IN YOUR 20 GA? I JUST SWITCHED FROM A 12 GA TO THE 20.
@@DEVILDOG1964 Primos 560 Jellyhead. But you may also want to try the 570 Tightwad or the Cabelas BlackMaxx in 575. I had an issue with my Cabelas choke. It was cracked or cracked when I shot it. But I have seen some decent patterns out of the BlackMaxx. I think I just got a lemon. This season, I killed 4 turkeys with the 560 and the 2 3/4 inch #9’s. The first one was 35 yards; the second one was 45 to 50; the third one was 48; and the last one was 35 yards. I am not changing anything on my gun even though I think I could probably get it tighter. I am there to kill turkeys, and this set up works for me. Semper Fi, brother. I am assuming by your name you were in the Marine Corps also.
@@burkejones8277 THX, AND GOOD HUNTING!!
@@DEVILDOG1964 The shells are Apex.
I feel bad for all the young folk that don't get all the references. The Rockers reference was spot on!
My Mossberg 835 did not like the Carlson LB choke either. I’ve never seen any shotgun like that choke. Switched to the Indian Creek .675 and it hammers XR Long Beards, Hevi-Shot Magnum Bkend in 3.5” shells. I think TSS is great for .410, 20ga, 28ga, but it’s overkill for 12ga. I’m not paying over $10 per shell when the $2 XR Longbeards kill them the same.
Thanks for the heads up. I am about to buy an 835 and was going to buy the Carlson's Longbeard choke. I'll look at the Indian Creek.
My beretta loves the Carlsons long beard choke with the long beard 3” #6
I would have compared my factory full choke, Indian Creek choke, & Carlson's choke. Does a turkey choke always make a difference? I never assume. Who knows? Your factory full choke may out perform the aftermarket Carlson's turkey choke. Likewise, I would never assume a nice pattern @ 40 yards justifies shooting @ 60 yards without testing. My number 1 rule when teaching/learning is "never assume"! I'm not knocking what you shared. I just feel everyone needs to test things for themselves. Red dots have become so popular in recent years, because all these new load & choke choices will sometimes change the point of impact in some (maybe most) guns.
Thanks for the feed back! I would have liked to try the factory choke, it seems most people want to see the pattern from that as well. Unfortunately I don't have the factory choke to try. You are correct, I don't think anyone should assume, I think everyone should always test for themselves. Ive been considering getting red dot, unfortunately I just don't have one yet. Thank you for the view, comment and insight! Good luck this season!
@@lockedin.productions I want to see how a turkey choke improves the pattern over a factory full choke in every video, & sadly hardly anyone does that. It's no knock on you. I have adjustable fiber optic sights on my two shotguns set up for turkeys, but my eyes are getting old. I have been exploring red dots myself. Meadow Creek offers mounting plates & red dot packages that are competitively priced. From my recent research, a Holosum 507C-GR-X2 would be my top choice, and the Gowutar A20 (green dot) would be my affordable Amazon pick. For now, I am using my TruGlo adjustable fiber optic sights. Good luck to you!
@@lockedin.productions I think Herter's TSS loads bridge a bit of a gap between LBXR & more expensive, larger TSS payloads. Their 2.75" 12 gauge & 3" 20 gauge carry the same 1.5 oz payload going 1,200 fps. A 20 gauge user might be drawn to them the most I have never used them myself, but they seem like a great value when watching others try them. I own three shotguns (10, 12, & 20 gauge), & I have an Indian Creek choke tube for each. I don't even consider anything else, but I was shooting Hevi-13 loads with them long before TSS became popular. Indian Creek is a good TSS choke, too. I've never seen a reason to try anything else.
You should have said how fast it shoots 1050 or 1200. I have both boxes and was wondering which one you were shooting. My stoeger shoots the 5 shot 1050 with an Indian Creek choke very good as well
Sorry about that, I guess I could have clarified! I put it in the coverage image hoping people would see it but it is the 1200fps. Thank you for watching 🙏
Out of my remington 870 pump turkey gun i sot a few different brands of ammo my best was wincehster 4 shot 3 inch steel shot i got the ammo on clearence $5.00 a box 35 yrds dead bird all day i dont ever see anyone shoot steel shot but i will
You shot high with that longbeard xr choke, its a wad stripping choke. I do it. I have an indian creek and carlson longbeard xr choke. Ill be a little high every time if i don’t compensate. Use a large backing like cardboard
Thank you for the insight and the view! When I purchase a red dot I’ll likely consider shooting that combo, I definitely feel like I lost the whole picture with the high shot
I use the Carlson lbxr choke with same ammo and mine also shoots high
Interesting to know, most of the comments with that combo shoot high. When I purchase a red dot I may consider running it! Thank you for the view!
You changed chokes. Point of impact will change! Get a scope/red dot or some good iron sights. Even a different lot # of Longbeard xr should be re-zeroed.
Not hating but I got a better pattern with my 20ga using the Carlson choke at 40yds than you did with a 12ga. Either you shot really high or that gun really does not like that choke
WHAT CARLSON CHOKE AND LOAD I JUST SWITCHED TO A 20 GA.
The reason you found those shells is probably nobody wants them. I have done testing with 3-1/2" versus 3" and found no advantage with the larger shell.
Every shotgun shoots Every load different. Apparently yours shots that load high with the Carlson choke but you just shooting with a bead and you haven't sighted it in for the Carlson choke. I shoot the Carlson clock withe the 3 and half inch number 5"s and at 40 yards I'm taking there head off. Your analogy is not correct. You've not sighted you gun in for the choke you are using
Thank you for the feedback! I currently don't have red dot to put on it, maybe in the near future. I will likely be doing a reshoot with that combo to get a better grasp on how it performs. watching it back now, I do see where half of the shot being off the paper likely skewed my results. Thanks for the view!
Kent brung back there turkey loads
We work with Kent and their turkey loads are no longer being made, if you happen to find some somewhere they are left over from prior to being discontinued
thats carlson is for 6 shot
I wasn't aware of that, maybe ill order some and see how they do! Thank you for the feedback!
I shoot the Carlson long beard choke and long beard xr #6 3” shell and get a better pattern than any 3.5” I’ve shot out of my gun
That’s bs! It’s for 4-5-6 but 6 does shoot best ! The choke is designed to be used with the wad of the long beard ammo
Not impressed with ur shot on the carlsons
Sorry but TSS is so much better. I have lost too many bird to lead.
Because you are shooting to far or you don't have it sighted in for the load you are using. Tss is over priced. Doesn't cost more to make
@chuckhansen5325 wrong. Tungsten shoot is way more expensive then lead.
@@chuckhansen5325 Density - Hevi-Steel = 7.8 g/cc, Hevi-Bismuth = 9.6 g/cc, Lead = 11.35 g/cc, Hevi-13 = 12 g/cc, TSS = 18 g/cc, Tungsten metal = 19.28 g/cc. Tungsten is rarer than lead and it is just plain harder to work with. A melting point of 6192 °F. Compare that with lead's melting point of 621°F.
I had the gun sighted in with a red dot and had bird from 25-40 yards get away with LBXR out of a 20 ga. It’s just too slow at 1,000fps
It’s only more expensive! Only reason to spend $20 a shell on tss is ur gun is shit and can’t pattern lead good at distance !
To bad you chose 3 and a 1/2 inch. You lost me there.
It wasn’t necessarily a choice, that’s all they had but I’m sure the patterns are comparable with the 3 inch
Listen closely and he said that's all Walmart had
Who cares if he shoots 3.5". Big deal. Each to his own
The only lead turkey shot
Not impressed with ur shot on the carlsons
Yeah, looking back on it neither am I. I’ll likely do a re-shoot on that this week!
@@lockedin.productions yes! Pls do! Ur pattern was high! Shoot till you get the pattern to hit the paper target ! Remember we not askin or talking “accuracy” we talking best pattern !