@@prayunceasingly2029 well he has a friendly like he's in your family likeable personality, easy to trust and decieve you, even though he is dead wrong. Todd is more like a salesman at the door hard to trust.
Something Ive seen amongst us as Christians not all Christians, and I say this sadly but we are not bound by the Blood of Christ but by personality preference in who we consider followers of Christ
I've finally realized what Calvinism is about, it’s about defending Calvinism not the Bible. You have to follow their thought process to understand what they believe. If you just read the Bible you never will. It's like going down the rabbit hole, theology in a tube. You can't argue with them because they can't see out of their hole. The Bible is a Narrative, God's Story, from Genesis all the way through to Revelation. We have an invitation to be part of it. Calvinism is a usurper that tries to impose its own ideas on to the message, completely ignoring the story.
It's sad to see how far bad doctrine can take a person. The Lord is merciful and Jesus said even blasphemy against the Son could be forgiven. Still... scary stuff
@@IdolKiller Hey you should respond to James White on his latest video against middle knowledge… or not up to you lol Here it is: ruclips.net/video/hMPhtfbibb4/видео.html
You see, RC Sproul can say it and it be ok but Todd White can't. Why? Let's just be blunt. It's because these men have idolized other men like RC Sproul. They will deny it but their constant protection of these men even when they are clearly wrong shows a level of devotion that is on par with idol worship. Just sayin'
You are exactly right and it's the good old fashion buddy system such as Chris Rosebrough will not call out Calvinist bc of their alliance but they talk about all the credentials they have but I feel it's a lot more to their buddy system that's real fishy ,to call out some but not others.
One more thought (I did a lot of digging on this at one point): In Deu 21-23 (cursed is everyone that hangs on a tree) the hebrew word כִּֽי־קִלְלַת (kee law law) means to “lightly esteem” or consider vile. It has to do with how a person is viewed. When the curses of the law are pronounced as judgements against sinners (deu 27) it reads אָרוּר הָאִישׁ (erur heyish). Same thing when God curses Cain, Adam, Eve, the ground. The pronounce judgement curse is “arur” to be despised is “keelawlaw.” Jesus was despised but God did not pronounce judgement against him for sin. It’s also important to make the distinction that Jesus was NOT despised by God. The passage in Deu is something the people did because they believed the cursed was despised by God. The people believed Jesus was despised by God but we know Jesus was always pleasing to the father. The LXX uses the same word “ἐπικατάρατος” to translate both hebrew words. When Paul refers to this verse he uses the same word as the LXX. The Greek word is more general. For example in Heb 12:2 Jesus “despised (same word “καταφρονήσας”) the shame of the cross.” Jesus is not pronouncing a curse as judgement on the shame of the cross. This passage in Genesis uses both words in the same verse. The YLT gets the distinction between the words right: “[Gen 12:3 YLT] 3 And I bless those blessing thee, and him who is disesteeming thee I curse, and blessed in thee have been all families of the ground.” So those who “despise” israel with have “Curse” pronounced against them by God. Jesus was “despised(different word) and rejected by men” but always pleasing to the Father. There is a difference between someone thinking light of something and a judge pronouncing a sentence. They are different just like drinking lemonade is different from the letter “W.”
New Eyes To See accused me of defending Todd White without watching the video. When I called out the problem of judging a matter from ignorance and bias, they watched it. They then defended RC Sproul saying Jesus underwent a fundamental change on the cross, while condemning White for saying Jesus underwent a fundamental change on the cross. To defend their hypocrisy, they claimed Todd White was taking a Biblical truth and ruining it. Thus "New Eyes To See" demonstrated the very point of the video... that Calvinists are often dishonest and hypocritical with their treatment of those in and out of Calvinism. After this was pointed out, they deleted their numerous comments. Was this done out of shame and in repentance, or in order to hide their double standard and dishonesty?
One of the channels I follow criticized, and rightfully so, Todd for these declarations... On the other hand, the first thing that came to my mind when I became aware of such 'incident' was that such words wouldn't be labeled as heresy so quickly had they come out of a Calvinist preacher...
It amazes me that Calvinists accuse others of blasphemy when they preach limited atonement and double predestination. Nothing maligns the character of God more than the idea that He elects a chosen few for redemption and that Jesus only died for their sins, so the vast majority are destined for damnation without even a chance of salvation. They make God a monster, far worse than anything Todd White said.
After I was saved in 1982 I began to vigorously study the Word of God and for the most part most of what I seen was contrary to what I heard from pulpits and media ministries. But was totally intimidated by all these theologians who had doctorates and came across so authoritative so I humbled myself and thought maybe I just wasn’t EDUCATED enough to see this enlightenment that they seem to have. But as I began to research church history I began to see there were many men of God who seen the gospel much the way I did. And then when I came across the absolute blasphemous statements of the reformers along with them calling for the murdering of other confessing believers it opened my eyes to the apostate condition of the majority of Protestant teachings. I said all of that to encourage men like yourself to use the new platforms available to reach truth seeking believers with the genuine gospel of Christ. Blessings my dear brother. 🙏🏻
I had the exact same thought as you when I listened to Mr Peters I was like "wait doesn't PSA support this? Why are they so upset, doesn't Sproul basically say this?"
The standby screen with Sprouls face is hilarious. You haven't disappointed on your videos yet. Please keep this tasteful humor running and don't look back, we need to laugh.
“Being in a minority, even in a minority of one, did not make you mad. There was truth and there was untruth, and if you clung to the truth even against the whole world, you were not mad.” George Orwell, 1984
The funny part is that whomever is high level game planning the Calvinist agenda has also aligned their group against the leftist agenda and "feely" charismatics, thereby drawing many men just by those facts alone. It's pretty twisted when you get down to it.
Good video, Warren. Sproul also said that we all believe that God is sovereign, but we don't all see sovereignty the same way. He also said that Hitler had some good in him. I just used that in my latest video. Todd isn't really gifted to teach. I wish he would avoid trying to do theology because he just confuses people. Still your point is valid.
Mr. Warren I believe this one is a masterpiece 🙂👍 I remember when I used to listen to the ligonier app one of RC Sproul's major teachings was what he called the "Curse" motif! And pretty much says exactly what was said in this piece here. I admit I'm still struggling with how to understand the atonement but I have an open mind to understand better what God through Christ was accomplishing at the cross. I think one of the things that is easy to miss is the healing that I believe God wanted to accomplish on our behalf.
You 100% correct in regards to your assertion that God’s intent to heal us by means of the atonement is both fundamental and often missed. That’s a terrific observation.
Justin Peters makes his living trashing prosperity preachers. Many times he’s not wrong; however, in this instance, he is essentially denying what the reformed camp believes about the atonement. Calling what Calvinists believe “disgusting” 😂😂!! I would say Justin acted out of ignorance but he’s been steeped in reformed theology long enough to know it backwards and forwards. I wish someone from his own ilk would correct him for this but I have a feeling they won’t.
There is nothing particularly Calvinistic about PSA. WLC, Mike Winger among many other non Calvinists also hold to it. Justin would probably also hold to the same. I just think he mistook what Todd meant. Watch the video instead of this clip, it was made in love.
@14:21... *_WHOA!!!!!!!!!!!!! NO DOUBT!! You are sooo right! Look at that: "no man speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed!!" (1Cor12:3) I never noticed how that fits here!_* (Warren, you might wanna warn the audience to move away from the shoreline, _that kind_ of mic drop could set off an earthquake!!!!!!) Beautiful!
Many people mistake figurative language for literal, but it seems particularly rampant within reformed ranks. I've seen some of the smartest and most well educated people fall prey to it. We must be diligent stewards of God's word! We must strive to be like the Bereans!
Indeed, they will be the first group to grill Catholics on their literal interpretation of the sacraments yet will use the same literal interpretation of certain passages so long as it bolsters their philosophy.
I’m Catholic and I love all my Christian brothers and sisters. We have so much more in common than we have that sets us apart. We need to work harder to all lift each other up, put our theological differences aside. At the end of the day we all strive to love God and keep his commandments, let’s support one another on our quest to do that.
I feel for Todd White especially in the beginning of this video… having that movie made about him and the fact that no one reached out to him first. Definitely no love from those who made that movie. He seems humble enough to repent even though he may still be in error. Hardened Calvinists like Justin Peters will never repent. Justin just makes “holier than thou” videos.
I'm no fan or defender of Todd White, but you are absolutely correct. All these guys Johnny Mac, Todd Friel, Justin Peters, Phil Johnson, Chris Rosebrough, Washer, White etc etc.. have all become the National Inquirer of RUclips Theological Gossip... they spend their time trashing people they disagree with and making smarmy, sarcastic "gotcha" videos... meanwhile drowning in their own hypocrisy and collapsing under the weight of their own arrogance... pathetic... and unsaved people see them and think we're all like this...
They did reach out to him. It's documented through email. Todd ignored them. The movie wasn't about him either, it just showed his parlor tricks Todd white is a heretic leading many on a path to hell
@@coryalbright9798 Definitely not leading as many to hell as Calvinists throughout the years with their heretical beliefs of limited atonement and Augustinian election.
A friend of Todd who recognized his heretical beliefs and associations actually brought Todd the DVD with a hand written note from costi hinn. Todd admittedly ripped the DVD and throwing it out. Nothing is more loving then telling the truth. The American gospel is a great movie (although I could do without calvinism being presupposed )that exposes a popular false teacher.
I was raised Calvinist, and a lot of their doctrines were axiomatic to Christianity in my mind, including their view of penal substitution. It's been a long road back to figure out what's Scriptural and what's not. RUclips recommended the Peters video when it all went down months ago. I had no idea R.C. Sproul had said something essentially the same as Todd White, but I'm not surprised. This video was helpful. Thank you!
Wonderful teaching. I advocate for one thing and one thing only "Relationship with God through Christ Jesus", to experience the Love of Jesus Christ 🙏 and the knowledge of him - Logos and Rhema. Justin Peter's sounds like a "Holier than thou" teacher who MAY ( and I mean the word MAY ) be guided by his desire to be right rather than have a relationship with Christ. That demands humbling and denial of self. Let God be your guide ! God crushed Christ on the cross, and what matters is that my sin was no longer counted against me and my prayer no longer an abomination unto God. What matters is that am being sanctified into replicating the life Jesus lived on earth and it is a process. One in which we recognise our weaknesses and allow Christ to show his strength through our continuous reliance upon him.
It's been a long time since you posted this comment, but is there any way you could explain in more detail? I think I understand what you mean, but I'm not sure I see the particular connection between penal sub and problems with a consubstantial Trinity.
@@cm2019 It creates a disunity in the Trinity, This becomes problematic in the light of the Trinity when we look at Christ on the cross. The Father pours out his wrath on the Son. The Father has wrath, and for his need for justice, so He must punish. The Son, on the cross, asks for forgiveness, making a conflict in the divine will - punishment versus forgiveness. Taking it to the furthest logical conclusion puts the Son and the Father at odds, creating a divide within the indivisible Trinity. It also calls to question Christ’s place in the Godhead. Shouldn’t Christ’s holiness also be offended? Why would the Father need appeasement and not Christ or the Holy Spirit? And if God the Father is truly punishing Christ, that is also sowing very real division within the Trinity. If the Father inflicts torture on the Son, how can the perfect love and unity of the Trinity survive?
Hmmmm, this is the first time I am hearing this novel concept, read the Bible for themselves?!?!? LOL, AMEN! Much of what I see out here today is folks being spoon-fed some man's interpretation of scripture. I believe the reason why there is so much deception being allowed to reign is that people, not all but most, do not read their Bible for themselves. If people read their Bibles they would not fall for these wolves. Just my opinion. Read your Bible, great advice and it should be "common sense" but is not, unfortunately.
I love the closing advice, "If you need sound, historical grounding; read your bible. Read it again. Try reading it chronologically. Read different translations of the bible. Read the interlinear and study the Greek and the Hebrew words..…. Just commit to conforming to no one other than Jesus Christ." I hear comments from people all the time, "I believe XYZ" to which I will ask, "what scripture points you to that conclusion?" The answer is often, "oh, I don't know the verse. That is just what I believe because that is what I have always been taught."
Justin Peters can’t afford for Todd White to be right - Justin’s whole ministry is criticizing other ministers (this is ALL he does). This video makes it very clear no one should go by what Justin Peters says.
I keep coming back to this video. I don’t know a better representation, up to date, of Justin Peters’ hypocritical speaking! And, I have seen a lot of JP. Thank you for this, again and again 🙏
I don't think he understands that he's wrong. Like, a lot of these guys are both deceived and deceivers, but I think Justin is just deceived. He seems like a wonderful guy, I hope one day he's able to find his way out of Calvinism. Do we know whether anyone has brought these Sproul clips to his attention?
So, Jesus becomes accursed in the sense that he was hung on a tree. So what? People did that to him. God didn't want to make a public example of him. His murders put him on a tree. Should we take that and invent a gigantic narrative about what it means for him to be cursed by being on a tree? It comes from Deuteronomy. It's something people did to make a public example of someone's sin. The people who put Jesus on the cross wanted to make a public example of his sin thinking he was a blasphemer. So what? Is there something wrong with being content with what the text says instead of inventing a bunch of stupid doctrines from here?
Cursed "cut off from life" is very different than "accused" (Anathema) in Greek which means "devoted to destruction by a Divine act" Jesus was "delivered up" to Satan and his children (John 8:44) who murdered Him (according to the flesh) penal Substitution-satisfaction theory is based on many gnostic heresies, one being that God executed Adam who was before the fall naturally immortal. John 8:44 calls the devil a murderer from the beginning, he drew man to suicide, God did not kill Adam as a penal act, therefore the answer is not penal substitution, but consequential recapitualtion.
Excellent presentation Warren! I like how you structured your video with the JP/Sproul contrast (your wheelhouse is the use of videos in this manner). Then you introduced penal substitution and pointed to more discussion in a more thorough teaching you did. A side note....I'm Charismatic (and I really don't like having to put a description on myself as a believer; nonetheless its necessary.) more specifically Word of Faith and I wouldn't say Todd White is Word of Faith...perhaps as you say...he's associated with Word of Faith. I would say White is an Evangelist who operates with a healing gift. All that to say he's not a Teacher or Prophet (referencing the 5 fold roles of leaders). Most importantly I appreciate the push back of the Calvinism influence and infiltration into the body of Christ. As you admonished--get into the Word; study the scriptures to find the truth. Thanks! ( Another side....please see Jew and Greek YT channel on the false teaching and misrepresentation by Justin Peters on Word of Faith.)
The Bible says Jesus was a lamb without blemish. I am unclear how he could become sin, my sin, and remain a lamb without blemish. Is this just another appeal to mystery? Sounds like Jesus is A and NOT A at the same time.
I believe in PSA, but I'm not a Calvinists. Most traditional protestants, especially in the western world, affirm PSA. We're not all Calvinists though.
In regards to the statements of Calvinists and pitchforks, one becomes like the one one worships. If the god you worship is vengeful and violent, it’s inevitable that these characteristics will become a part of one’s own character. Fortunately the true God was revealed in and by Jesus Christ, who said “When you’ve seen Me, you’ve seen the Father.” This simple declaration is the gospel, and nowhere is the true character f God seen than on the cross. The revelation of that character, of One who sacrifices all for the sake of those He loves, the revelation of the Father, reconciles us to Him. A big problem of PSA is that this theory of the cross drives a wedge between Father and Son, when the reality of the cross is the reverse, the Gospel message being when we seen Christ (e.g. on the cross) we see the Father.
2 Corinthians 5:21 says, “...so that IN him we might become the righteousness of God”, NOT “from him”. To be “in” Christ is a Greek way of saying, “in his group”, or “on his team”, or “linked to him”. The Greek word “in” has to do with our identification with Christ, not about something being passed from him to us. “In” is a word that involves association, not a transfer. Righteousness is a virtue like love, patience, gentleness. This passage says nothing about the righteousness of God or of Jesus actually being transferred to us. It is by being “in” Christ that we can have God’s righteousness, which is about following Christ, living and behaving as he did. Righteousness is what we DO because we are associated with Christ. It is not delegated to us. The Greek the phrase is actually “that we might be becoming...” This is about transitioning from a condition of unrighteousness toward righteousness. This phrase has nothing to do with God transferring righteousness to us, but of us transitioning from our unrighteousness behavior toward godly, righteous behavior. The greater context of verse 21 is about Christ reconciling us to God. If we claim that verse 21 teaches that God transfers Christ’s righteousness to us, we would have a false or reverse reconciliation. The context pleads with us to be reconciled TO God. It is US being reconciled TO Him, not Him being reconciled to us. We have offended God. We must stop offending Him if reconciliation is going to occur. If righteousness is transferred to us, no genuine reconciliation has occurred. The plea of Paul is that WE be reconciled TO God, not for God to be reconciled to us, and the first step in a process of reconciliation is to stop offending. Sin is an act, not an object or substance that can be moved or transferred, bought or sold. Some may say that Christ became legally sin in our place. This idea would mean that Christ merely accepted a temporary legal label called “sin”. But a mere label called “sin” does nothing at all to motivate us to live righteously, and the verse flatly states that “...he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.” Simply having Jesus become temporarily labeled as a legal sinner provides no motivation of any significance that would move us toward righteous living. Using verse 21 as transferring Christ’s righteousness is a denial of being made a new creature in verse 17. Transferred righteousness is a fiction, a legal position, and has no immediate bearing on our behavior. Being labeled “legally righteous” does not make us new, where old things have passed away. We would merely have a new legal status called “the righteousness of Christ”. This is functionally equivalent to putting lipstick on a pig - where we are the pig. It makes a mockery of us actually becoming new, and discards God’s demand that we stop sinning and become righteous. The words “to be” in the phrase “to be sin” is not in the Greek. Without these words the text says “...he made him sin...”. In what sense was Jesus made sin for our sake? I think that this is a reference to what sin looks like, the agony, the cruelty, the wickedness, all put on public display, “...so that in him we might becoming the righteousness of God.” We see the innocent Son of God tortured, suffering and dying, and knowing that it is because of our collective sinful actions and attitudes. Our sin, our unrighteousness, is the cause of this atrocity. We should be horrified that sin led to this unrighteousness, and then flee from our unrighteousness and toward God’s righteousness. The very Son of God was nailed to a cruel cross because of sin. May we flee from all sin so that his suffering will not be in vain. If we do this and become a follower of Christ, we will have as the text says, the righteousness of God and reconciliation with God through Jesus Christ. This fits the context perfectly and fulfills its author’s intent. There is no Penal Substitution here, no transfer of the righteousness of Jesus to our account, nothing about Jesus taking our punishment or God forgiving us because Jesus paid for our sins with his blood. Paul is stating that the ugliness of sin was put on display by the death of Jesus so that those who follow Jesus will choose to live according to God’s definition of righteousness.
@@timothy6828 Galatians 3:13-14 “Christ redeemed [released/freed] us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us-for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree”-so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith.” ESV Verses 13-14 are a single paragraph that is part of a greater argument that Paul is making against those who claim that followers of Christ must adhere to all the Mosaic Laws and regulations like the Jews had been taught, which often included multiple layers of law beyond what was actually written. In order for the Mosaic Law to be set aside and to become free of it, a higher, superior, law or covenant had to be put in place that was better. Notice that the verse makes one claim and three conclusions: Claim: “Christ redeemed [released/freed] us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us…” (Not a literal curse, but a picture of a curse. A literal curse would have rendered him an unclean sacrifice.) Conclusion 1: “for/because it is written, “Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree...” Conclusion 2: “so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles…” Conclusion 3: “so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith.” The statement and its derived conclusions are part of the logical case Paul is making as to why the Mosaic Law is not required. Therefore, this passage has nothing to do with Jesus being transformed into sin or paying God for sin. In verses 17-26 Paul explains that the Law of Moses was an addition to the promise given to Abraham and the Law only served as a tutor, a means to establish boundaries, until the ultimate promise, Jesus Christ, would come. Now Jesus defines what is right and wrong, and by having faith/loyalty (not mere mental assent) to his teaching and his example we are being righteous (1 Jn. 3:7). Those who follow Christ have no need of the Mosaic Law because they have a greater, living source of defining what is right and wrong. Instead of following the sometimes abstract Mosaic laws we follow the Son of God who lives out all the righteousness of God. An example of this is Cornelius, a God-fearing gentile who was considered righteous (Acts 10:22) before even hearing of Christ! Notice Peter’s “theologically-incorrect” statement: “Opening his mouth, Peter said: "I most certainly understand now that God is not one to show partiality, but in every nation the man who fears Him and does what is right is welcome to Him.” NASB Only after this does Peter actually tell Cornelius about Jesus. “...This is the One who has been appointed by God as Judge of the living and the dead. Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives [Gr. lambanó, Eng. lay hold of] forgiveness [Gr. aphesin, Eng. release] of sins” (10:42-43). Peter does not tell Cornelius to repent (Lk. 5:32). He was already living a godly, righteous life. He just needed to know that the promised Messiah had come.
Well done, brother. Excellent message and presentation. Watched it two times in a row-I had to get hubby to hear. You have helped us more than you know as we had been Calvinists for 25 years.
On the subject of being removed, when I first saw your video several months ago, I left a very short, subtle comment on the JP ministries channel. I just paid a return visit and it has been removed. Go figure.
Sounds like Todd is saying the same thing a Sproul. Of course, we have to understand that sin and death cannot be separated; they are intricately connected. It's interesting the conclusions a person can come to under Reformed theology when one doesn't have the bunkered thinking/ teaching that is necessary to hold it all together
@@alassmann they're angry because Todd isn't part of their tribe (hasn't fully bent the knee to them), and cause his presentation was more evocative, I reckon
There's good reason why both the East and even the church of Rome resoundingly reject this doctrinal innovation of the reformation. Also notice how the Protestants split the Trinity, delving into horrific heresy.
God never turned his back on Jesus. If God is to holy to look on sin how is satan allowed in the thrown room of God? Psalm 22:24 KJV [24] For he hath not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted; Neither hath he hid his face from him; But when he cried unto him, he heard. Job 1:6 KJV [6] Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
Thanks to Mr. Flowers for sharing your channel. The way you make these videos are awesome. The disgusting hypocrisy of Calvinists is just mind boggling.
The Gospel was given to fishermen and those dudes turned the world right side up, but somehow Todd White is "doing damage" because he doesn't have a degree. ROFL.
I've never heard of Todd White let alone RC Sproul, but if they are indeed wrong, can you explain 1 Peter 2 24? From my reading and interpretation of the bible, Jesus bore our sins in his body....which would indeed mean he became sin in his flesh. Not spiritually of course and not by his deeds....he accepted everyone's sin in his body on the cross. For us to go into Heaven if we accept him and repent of our sins. At that time God could not look upon him...and he asked God "why hath you forsaken me". Also, a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. So how can a preacher who preaches in a way that some might disagree with save souls?
"He [God the Father] committed Him [Jesus], who knew no sin, to be a sin offering on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him". The sin offering is "most holy" (Leviticus 10:17) and to be consumed at the holy place (Eucharist/Lord's Supper). The sin offering cleanses (Leviticus 14:19). The blood of the sin offering was to be sprinkled upon the Mercy Seat (Leviticus 16:15). The Biblical account is extremely contrary to the claims of PSA dealing with unforgiveness and wrath, imputed sin and corruption.
I recently heard a local pastor preach this and it makes no sense and just like this no clear explanation is offered I'm not a Calvinist but I'd choose Sproul before Todd but since they are not the only option available I choose neither Hope y'all have a great day!
its abut 100 times in the OT text....Sin OFFERING....Jesus became a sin offering, He did not become sin.........Therefore, Jesus died on our behalf, NOT in our place....Peter said He was spotless and blameless. Sweet smelling aroma to God. However, Sin is a stench in the nostrils of God.......Isiah 53 " thou shalt make his soul an for sin"..................Be blessed Willie Bonnie
Peters the same tatics in his videos. He maybe right in some areas but he usually strawmans them and not accuatly repesent thier views. I guess this is the same. He labels White as a heritic and will tru and use anything to discredit him. Such an unchristian approach to bringing up errors only makes you think how right is Justin Peters if he is willing to stoop to this level. It makes it hard to trust anything he says. At the end of the day Peters will be held to account along with the rest of us,
Some things you don't have to have a doctorate to see some things you don't have to be a scholar to hear. If you have the holy spirit then you know the truth of a man. I just felt this from the moment I saw them without even listening it was this feeling of just illness. I think that the words of the bible are coming to fruition now, we have the false calling out the false more than the truth of salvation from the pulpit. Prayers that all shall seek and find as the holy spirit would lead you. God bless
THE Reformed Penal Substitution Atonement (only from 1500's ad) is READ INTO the verses people use to support it. Not a single verse says GOD the First Person of the Trinity pours out His wrath, damns, cuts off, and CURSES GOD His Son, and transfers sin to The Second Person of the Trinity while on the cross! (See RC Sproul) This is an obvious heresy that tears apart the one essence or very being of God the Holy Trinity into tri theism. "No one speaking by the Spirit of God can say, "Jesus is accursed!" 1 Corinthians 12:3 Jesus says, "I and the Father are one!" John 10:3 "I am in the Father and the Father is in me!" John 14:10 Reformed PSA causes Jesus to be two persons which is the Nestorian heresy. Jesus is one person who is truly God and truly man without separation, division, mixture, or change. PSA teaches a false god! The Eastern Orthodox belief for 2000 years, God willingly (John 10:17-18) and in love (1 John 4:8) became a man in the person of Jesus Christ, lived a sinless life, fulfilled the law, and died on our behalf on a cross to go into Hades to set the captives free (1 Peter 3:18-20), and rose bodily from the grave (1 Corinthians 15:17) thereby defeating and conquering death, sin, and the devil. (Hebrews 2:14-15; 1 John 3:8) Jesus is in heaven interceding on our behalf! (Hebrews 7:25) "Since the children have flesh and blood, Jesus too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might break the power of him who holds the power of death-that is, the devil- and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death!" Hebrews 2:14-15 "You murdered Jesus the Creator of life, but God raised him from the dead. We are witnesses of this. . . . But this is how God fulfilled what he had foretold through all the prophets, saying that his Messiah would suffer. Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord!" Acts 3:15, 18-19 "Opponents must be gently instructed, in the hope that God will GRANT them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth, and that they will come to their senses and escape from the trap of the devil, who has taken them captive to do his will!" 2 Timothy 2:25-26 When we repent, by turning from sin and receiving Jesus Christ, we are forgiven and cleansed of sin and are credited as righteous because we are made righteous! (Romans 4:5, 7) An alien mere declaration of righteousness by imputation is fiction. If Jesus was made a sinner to pay a debt then Jesus should be in hell! See Proverbs 17:15 "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness!" (Without having sins, we are made righteous) 1 John 1:9 If a debt is paid, there is no need for forgiveness! "God was IN Christ reconciling the world to himself!" 2 Corinthians 5:19 God was not pouring out wrath and damning and cursing His Son as reformed PSA teaches! The persons of the Trinity eternally always love each other! (1 John 4:8; Hebrews 13:8) JESUS CHRIST IS RISEN! JESUS CHRIST CONQUERS! IC XC NIKA
Oh man, TW's rant was hard to watch but RCS "g-d-ing" our Lord and Saviour was worse. I love that you always finish your videos by explaining what scripture actually says. Thank you.
2:59 I actually agree with Justin Peters. However, I would also add that Justin Peters has no idea what he is doing, and neither do I. Unless persuaded otherwise, I am convinced that human ignorance of "spiritual" things is terminal. It is a rather bleak outlook, but it does have the added benefit of casting all false prophets and frauds to the ground.
The atonement is without doubt a subject of deep waters, but I feel constrained to comment that God did not forsake Christ. Indeed, God was never closer to Christ than on the cross, which is shown in scripture, where God descends from heaven to be with Christ, as portrayed in Psalm 18, and evidenced by the lighting and thunder and earthquakes (a la Sinai) and described in the text “God was in Christ reconciling the world unto Himself. Christ felt as if He were forsaken, but God suffered with His Son.
This should be really good. Almost made the first comment, second is not bad. Be blessed today Sir. Oh, the first comment will be deleted, that happens on my channel so I may end up being the first comment, oh the pressure! I just want to thank you for your work and your thoughtful exploration. I really enjoy your broadcasts!
I really wish I could save the clip of what Todd White said between the 0:50 - 1:53 mark of your video. It pretty much typifies I’ll push back PSA that not only Justin peters, but the ilk of James White, Hank Henagraff and even Servus Christy a.k.a. Josh Chavez need to hear.
Joyce Meyer, Copeland, Hagin all hold to this ridiculous notion that Jesus became sin rather than the sin offering. This is not new... In fact this led each of those to say Jesus went to hell for a while to be punished for it...
Kenneth Hagin never taught that Jesus became sin in an ontological sense. He only taught that in a positional/legal sense. He bore our sin nature away just as the scapegoat bore away the sins of Israel.
I dont have any specific instances though, from the many many sermons I have listened to by Sproul I have come to belive that he had more nuance in his theology and far more human moments in his preaching than any of the other mainstream Calvinists. Unfortunately he seemed to allow other Calvinists to run roughshod over him. Though I don't agree with Sproul on many things I appreciate his humility far in a way over many other Calvinist teachers.
I have to buy the capture card you recommended. I set everything up but I couldn't get it to work. I need to give you a call and get you to walk me through it. I'll definitely need it for live discussions.
Ummm no. Ps. 22: 24 For he hath not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted; neither hath he hid his face from him; but when he cried unto him, he heard.
Ahh Calvinism, the belief that God causes and plans and performs all things, including Todd White being a faith healer and word of faith false preacher. So I fail to see what the big deal is.
Seems like they painted themselves into a corner. Todd White is just too honest a guy so he says the quite parts out loud, and hearing the logical conclusion of their theology spoken out loud bothers them.
Interesting video. Thank you for your hard work. I 2 have many disagreements with R.C. however he has also taught me a lot. God bless your ministry. Bro John
"And so the passage “The Word was made flesh” seems to me to be equivalent to that in which it is said that he was made sin or a curse for us; not that the Lord was transformed into either of these-how could he be? But because by taking them upon him he took away our sins and bore our iniquities." Gregory the Theologian, AD 390 Also, see Hebrews 2:14-18.
@@IdolKiller thanks for the speedy reply. I'm rewatching your series with Paul Vendredi as I prepare for round 2 debating the atonement with my pastor and fellow congregants. I just can't stand PSA because of how it depcits God.
Word of faith is problematic, but not all bad. Calvinism is problematic but not fatal. But a Word of faith calvinist? Oh man. Watch out. Cult incoming in 5,4, 3...
@@richardcolburn4172 that goes both ways in Revelation: the witnesses and the antichrist figures can both do that. Really it's irrelevant to both cases unless it actually happens. In his case it's not so he's neither one of the witnesses nor the antichrist. It merely adds up to he's excessively hyperbolic which adds up to red flags of dishonesty. And I'm by no means defending him out of tribalism, he seems like a kook.
@@ravissary79 After a lot of thought and study I'm pretty sure he's unintentionally using hypnosis to temporarily heal pain in most of his "miracles." He's taking advantage of his testimony and persuasive personality to exploit a lot of people for money. I'm not sure he knows he's doing this.
@@ravissary79 I attended one of his conferences. It was an enlightening experience. I saw some genuine miracles but it wasn't because Todd White has any special power. I suppose I should post a video about the experience...
This proves the blatant hypocrisy of Calvinism. What Sproul said is no different from what White, Copeland, and most word of faith preachers have said concerning the crucifixion. Yet Sproul could get away with it because of his Calvinism. It also makes one question if they are warning people about WOF out of sincerity or are they trying to recruit more to their own doctrine. Just look at the comments and see how many left WOF and joined Calvinist churches.
Wow, I am blown away. Great video, the Calvinist are very judgmental just like Jehovah's Witness, I was a jw for 30 years then went to a Calvinist church. I don't go to any church now. I believe and have faith but too much hypocrisy out there. I'd rather stick to the Bible not someone else's "expert opinion".
This is a violation of basic trinitarian metaphysics. God is 3 persons 1 will. Not 3 persons 3 wills. They regurgitate an old heresy and divide christ like the nestorians. You could also throw in monotheletism( monoenergism)
I think Todd has said it better than anyone did he gossip no but he became it did he have the seed in his mouth no but he became it in his body praise the Lord
Jesus didn't become sin. Jesus was regarded by us as sinful. Jesus suffered the effects of sin though He was innocent in every way. Peterson is correct in calling out this view of Jesus becoming sin ontologically, he's just hypocritical in calling out those in his own camp for affirming the same thing.
@@IdolKiller 1Peter Ch.2:22,23NIV"“He committed no sin, and no deceit was found in his mouth.” e 23When they hurled their insults at him, he did not retaliate; when he suffered, he made no threats. Instead, he entrusted himself to him who judges justly. 24“He himself bore our sins” in his body on the cross, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; “by his wounds you have been healed.” "
Grace and Peace to you. As one who believes that scripture harmoniously teaches PSA, Ransom Theory and Christus Victor, I don't think Todd White was in error as long he wasn't implying that Jesus thought evil thoughts.
Thanks for commenting!! One of the issues is that White, Sproul and Spurgeon treated sin as a substance to be transferred and exchanged. Thus the moment Christ assumed mankind's sin, or the sin of the elect, this was an ontological change which corrupted Him. So the Spotless & sinless Lamb became sin incarnate. Moreover, such a view splits the Trinity as it claims Jesus could become sin but the Father couldn't even look on Him, that Jesus could freely forgive but the Father couldn't. I find it an extremely problematic doctrine. I don't believe PSA can be used as a metric to determine who is and who is not saved... so I don't go there with it. I just see it as extremely erroneous and to be avoided.
@@IdolKiller Amen and amen. Have you thought about having a day out the week for teaching and learning how to read the bible correctly, if you understand what I'm trying to say. I don't have a big education and I would love to have a fresh start in reading the bible but I would like to have some help so I don't pick up some of my old learnings I have from Pentecostal teachings so if there's a way you may be able to help, would you please send me your email. Thank you for the work you do in Christ Jesus.
Christ assumed the totality of our human nature to heal and redeem it. There's a fine line between assumption and substitution, so I think I understand where you're coming from.
@@IdolKiller well it says he was made sin making us righteous, and that our sin was laid on him, and the punishment, maybe not the wrath of the father but just death, was given to him. I think that's clear enough, as non calvinistic as i am
@@IdolKiller I just can't see how one could deal with those pasaages. He never sinned, he was a sacrifice, taking a punishment supposed for sinners (which is as to become sin) that gave us righteousness. He was treated as a sinner-death.
RC Sproul and Todd White are preaching the same thing.
Justin Peters does not comprehend that, it's just amazing.
It's possibly because rc Sproul says it in a way that's more acceptable to hear and stomach.
@@prayunceasingly2029 well he has a friendly like he's in your family likeable personality, easy to trust and decieve you, even though he is dead wrong.
Todd is more like a salesman at the door hard to trust.
He must not be sovereignly predestined to see it 🤣
@@riverjao 🤔☺
Something Ive seen amongst us as Christians not all Christians, and I say this sadly but we are not bound by the Blood of Christ but by personality preference in who we consider followers of Christ
I've finally realized what Calvinism is about, it’s about defending Calvinism not the Bible.
You have to follow their thought process to understand what they believe.
If you just read the Bible you never will.
It's like going down the rabbit hole, theology in a tube.
You can't argue with them because they can't see out of their hole.
The Bible is a Narrative, God's Story, from Genesis all the way through to Revelation. We have an invitation to be part of it.
Calvinism is a usurper that tries to impose its own ideas on to the message, completely ignoring the story.
“May God save us from accepting a doctrine, that must be defended by such fallacious reasoning!”
~ John Wesley
When sproul says “God damn you” I cannot help but feel fearful for him!
It's sad to see how far bad doctrine can take a person. The Lord is merciful and Jesus said even blasphemy against the Son could be forgiven. Still... scary stuff
@@IdolKiller Hey you should respond to James White on his latest video against middle knowledge… or not up to you lol
Here it is:
ruclips.net/video/hMPhtfbibb4/видео.html
@@IdolKiller the trick is repentance. Let's hope.
Sproul said that?
@@AlanaL3 I obviously hadn't finished watching the video lol. Can't believe he says that.
You see, RC Sproul can say it and it be ok but Todd White can't. Why? Let's just be blunt. It's because these men have idolized other men like RC Sproul. They will deny it but their constant protection of these men even when they are clearly wrong shows a level of devotion that is on par with idol worship. Just sayin'
You are exactly right and it's the good old fashion buddy system such as Chris Rosebrough will not call out Calvinist bc of their alliance but they talk about all the credentials they have but I feel it's a lot more to their buddy system that's real fishy ,to call out some but not others.
If only there was someone on RUclips committed to "killing" idols...
@@dustinpaulson1123 Yes!!😉😉
I am *strongly* convinced that their disdain of White is because of his appearance.
Amen, brother!! 🙏
WOW!!! Could there be a more confusing ideology harming the Body of Christ than Calvinism? WOW!!!
One more thought (I did a lot of digging on this at one point): In Deu 21-23 (cursed is everyone that hangs on a tree) the hebrew word כִּֽי־קִלְלַת (kee law law) means to “lightly esteem” or consider vile. It has to do with how a person is viewed. When the curses of the law are pronounced as judgements against sinners (deu 27) it reads אָרוּר הָאִישׁ (erur heyish). Same thing when God curses Cain, Adam, Eve, the ground. The pronounce judgement curse is “arur” to be despised is “keelawlaw.” Jesus was despised but God did not pronounce judgement against him for sin. It’s also important to make the distinction that Jesus was NOT despised by God. The passage in Deu is something the people did because they believed the cursed was despised by God. The people believed Jesus was despised by God but we know Jesus was always pleasing to the father.
The LXX uses the same word “ἐπικατάρατος” to translate both hebrew words. When Paul refers to this verse he uses the same word as the LXX.
The Greek word is more general. For example in Heb 12:2 Jesus “despised (same word “καταφρονήσας”) the shame of the cross.” Jesus is not pronouncing a curse as judgement on the shame of the cross.
This passage in Genesis uses both words in the same verse. The YLT gets the distinction between the words right: “[Gen 12:3 YLT] 3 And I bless those blessing thee, and him who is disesteeming thee I curse, and blessed in thee have been all families of the ground.” So those who “despise” israel with have “Curse” pronounced against them by God.
Jesus was “despised(different word) and rejected by men” but always pleasing to the Father.
There is a difference between someone thinking light of something and a judge pronouncing a sentence. They are different just like drinking lemonade is different from the letter “W.”
New Eyes To See accused me of defending Todd White without watching the video. When I called out the problem of judging a matter from ignorance and bias, they watched it.
They then defended RC Sproul saying Jesus underwent a fundamental change on the cross, while condemning White for saying Jesus underwent a fundamental change on the cross.
To defend their hypocrisy, they claimed Todd White was taking a Biblical truth and ruining it.
Thus "New Eyes To See" demonstrated the very point of the video... that Calvinists are often dishonest and hypocritical with their treatment of those in and out of Calvinism.
After this was pointed out, they deleted their numerous comments. Was this done out of shame and in repentance, or in order to hide their double standard and dishonesty?
One of the channels I follow criticized, and rightfully so, Todd for these declarations... On the other hand, the first thing that came to my mind when I became aware of such 'incident' was that such words wouldn't be labeled as heresy so quickly had they come out of a Calvinist preacher...
Calvinists are usually scary quick to say that people who disagree with their doctrine are not saved.
It's due to the "Calvinism is the Gospel" mentality.
It amazes me that Calvinists accuse others of blasphemy when they preach limited atonement and double predestination. Nothing maligns the character of God more than the idea that He elects a chosen few for redemption and that Jesus only died for their sins, so the vast majority are destined for damnation without even a chance of salvation. They make God a monster, far worse than anything Todd White said.
to be fair: eternal hell is bad enough to malign god's character
After I was saved in 1982 I began to vigorously study the Word of God and for the most part most of what I seen was contrary to what I heard from pulpits and media ministries. But was totally intimidated by all these theologians who had doctorates and came across so authoritative so I humbled myself and thought maybe I just wasn’t EDUCATED enough to see this enlightenment that they seem to have. But as I began to research church history I began to see there were many men of God who seen the gospel much the way I did. And then when I came across the absolute blasphemous statements of the reformers along with them calling for the murdering of other confessing believers it opened my eyes to the apostate condition of the majority of Protestant teachings. I said all of that to encourage men like yourself to use the new platforms available to reach truth seeking believers with the genuine gospel of Christ. Blessings my dear brother. 🙏🏻
Thank you!
I seen?
I just watched the statements of what Jesus became on a tree. This is absolutely disgusting.
Absolutely 💯
Yes it is.
Someone in the audience actually laughed at some point.
Completely agree! 2Cor. 5:21 is one of my favorite verses but this was difficult for me to watch
I had the exact same thought as you when I listened to Mr Peters
I was like "wait doesn't PSA support this? Why are they so upset, doesn't Sproul basically say this?"
You sir, are smarter using your secondary language skills than most calvinists using their primary language skills!
@@a.k.7840 thanks bro
The standby screen with Sprouls face is hilarious. You haven't disappointed on your videos yet. Please keep this tasteful humor running and don't look back, we need to laugh.
I'm glad you appreciate my weird sense of humor!
“Being in a minority, even in a minority of one, did not make you mad. There was truth and there was untruth, and if you clung to the truth even against the whole world, you were not mad.”
George Orwell, 1984
The funny part is that whomever is high level game planning the Calvinist agenda has also aligned their group against the leftist agenda and "feely" charismatics, thereby drawing many men just by those facts alone. It's pretty twisted when you get down to it.
%80 truth, and then %20 lie where it really counts.
Good video, Warren. Sproul also said that we all believe that God is sovereign, but we don't all see sovereignty the same way. He also said that Hitler had some good in him. I just used that in my latest video. Todd isn't really gifted to teach. I wish he would avoid trying to do theology because he just confuses people. Still your point is valid.
Martin Luther said almost the exact same thing as Todd. He may have even got it from him.
Happy to see you around here Jordan
Indeed he did!
I remember reading Bondage of the will and thinking this guy Luther is nuts.
@17:06 “bookshelves lined with volumes of their opinions.” 😂😂 soo true!
They sure don’t want Todd playing ball for their team. Great points, Warren. Especially concerning the common use of the word “sin“ as sin offering.
Yes!
Mr. Warren I believe this one is a masterpiece 🙂👍 I remember when I used to listen to the ligonier app one of RC Sproul's major teachings was what he called the "Curse" motif! And pretty much says exactly what was said in this piece here. I admit I'm still struggling with how to understand the atonement but I have an open mind to understand better what God through Christ was accomplishing at the cross. I think one of the things that is easy to miss is the healing that I believe God wanted to accomplish on our behalf.
Warren is a good guy to listen to if you want to really understand the atonement.
You 100% correct in regards to your assertion that God’s intent to heal us by means of the atonement is both fundamental and often missed. That’s a terrific observation.
Justin Peters makes his living trashing prosperity preachers. Many times he’s not wrong; however, in this instance, he is essentially denying what the reformed camp believes about the atonement.
Calling what Calvinists believe “disgusting” 😂😂!! I would say Justin acted out of ignorance but he’s been steeped in reformed theology long enough to know it backwards and forwards.
I wish someone from his own ilk would correct him for this but I have a feeling they won’t.
There is nothing particularly Calvinistic about PSA. WLC, Mike Winger among many other non Calvinists also hold to it.
Justin would probably also hold to the same. I just think he mistook what Todd meant.
Watch the video instead of this clip, it was made in love.
It's a good ole boys club, leave our own alone, be a hypocrite..
@14:21... *_WHOA!!!!!!!!!!!!! NO DOUBT!! You are sooo right! Look at that: "no man speaking by the Spirit of God calls Jesus accursed!!" (1Cor12:3) I never noticed how that fits here!_*
(Warren, you might wanna warn the audience to move away from the shoreline, _that kind_ of mic drop could set off an earthquake!!!!!!) Beautiful!
Many people mistake figurative language for literal, but it seems particularly rampant within reformed ranks. I've seen some of the smartest and most well educated people fall prey to it. We must be diligent stewards of God's word! We must strive to be like the Bereans!
Indeed, they will be the first group to grill Catholics on their literal interpretation of the sacraments yet will use the same literal interpretation of certain passages so long as it bolsters their philosophy.
Well said
Love it! When RC Sproul uses pious, and eloquent speech to say exactly what Todd White is expressing🤦🏽♂️
Get real Justin.
Maybe Justin is self-righteous and blind from a judgemental attitude
I’m Catholic and I love all my Christian brothers and sisters. We have so much more in common than we have that sets us apart. We need to work harder to all lift each other up, put our theological differences aside. At the end of the day we all strive to love God and keep his commandments, let’s support one another on our quest to do that.
Yeah, Calvinists and Todd White agreeing. I know I haven’t seen everything, but I feel a lot closer now.
I feel for Todd White especially in the beginning of this video… having that movie made about him and the fact that no one reached out to him first.
Definitely no love from those who made that movie.
He seems humble enough to repent even though he may still be in error.
Hardened Calvinists like Justin Peters will never repent.
Justin just makes “holier than thou” videos.
I'm no fan or defender of Todd White, but you are absolutely correct. All these guys Johnny Mac, Todd Friel, Justin Peters, Phil Johnson, Chris Rosebrough, Washer, White etc etc.. have all become the National Inquirer of RUclips Theological Gossip... they spend their time trashing people they disagree with and making smarmy, sarcastic "gotcha" videos... meanwhile drowning in their own hypocrisy and collapsing under the weight of their own arrogance... pathetic... and unsaved people see them and think we're all like this...
@@roddyk2655 well said, accurate observation. Essentially pearl clutching click baiters.
They did reach out to him. It's documented through email. Todd ignored them. The movie wasn't about him either, it just showed his parlor tricks
Todd white is a heretic leading many on a path to hell
@@coryalbright9798 Definitely not leading as many to hell as Calvinists throughout the years with their heretical beliefs of limited atonement and Augustinian election.
A friend of Todd who recognized his heretical beliefs and associations actually brought Todd the DVD with a hand written note from costi hinn. Todd admittedly ripped the DVD and throwing it out. Nothing is more loving then telling the truth. The American gospel is a great movie (although I could do without calvinism being presupposed )that exposes a popular false teacher.
When they hear Jesus quote David on the cross - does anyone actually go to Ps 22 and read it?
Justin Peters wouldnt know scripture if he stayed up all night reading it
Explain that.
I was raised Calvinist, and a lot of their doctrines were axiomatic to Christianity in my mind, including their view of penal substitution. It's been a long road back to figure out what's Scriptural and what's not. RUclips recommended the Peters video when it all went down months ago. I had no idea R.C. Sproul had said something essentially the same as Todd White, but I'm not surprised.
This video was helpful. Thank you!
Wonderful teaching. I advocate for one thing and one thing only "Relationship with God through Christ Jesus", to experience the Love of Jesus Christ 🙏 and the knowledge of him - Logos and Rhema. Justin Peter's sounds like a "Holier than thou" teacher who MAY ( and I mean the word MAY ) be guided by his desire to be right rather than have a relationship with Christ.
That demands humbling and denial of self. Let God be your guide !
God crushed Christ on the cross, and what matters is that my sin was no longer counted against me and my prayer no longer an abomination unto God. What matters is that am being sanctified into replicating the life Jesus lived on earth and it is a process. One in which we recognise our weaknesses and allow Christ to show his strength through our continuous reliance upon him.
The problem with Penal Sub goes deep. At it's core, it becomes a denial of the consubstantial nature of the Trinity.
It's been a long time since you posted this comment, but is there any way you could explain in more detail? I think I understand what you mean, but I'm not sure I see the particular connection between penal sub and problems with a consubstantial Trinity.
@@cm2019 The trinity isn't true
@@cm2019
It creates a disunity in the Trinity, This becomes problematic in the light of the Trinity when we look at Christ on the cross. The Father pours out his wrath on the Son. The Father has wrath, and for his need for justice, so He must punish. The Son, on the cross, asks for forgiveness, making a conflict in the divine will - punishment versus forgiveness. Taking it to the furthest logical conclusion puts the Son and the Father at odds, creating a divide within the indivisible Trinity. It also calls to question Christ’s place in the Godhead. Shouldn’t Christ’s holiness also be offended? Why would the Father need appeasement and not Christ or the Holy Spirit?
And if God the Father is truly punishing Christ, that is also sowing very real division within the Trinity. If the Father inflicts torture on the Son, how can the perfect love and unity of the Trinity survive?
I love the doctrine of Identification. I don't hear it preached or taught on much.
😂 I literally laughed out loud at Justin saying, " That. Is. Disgusting.".
Jesus Character and Nature never changes. He doesn’t become sin, He becomes a substitute.
Love your work beloved, let the word of God be without confusion and eisegesis.
Thank you!
Thankyou.
I love it, and get much encouragement when people articulate basically what I believe.
Hmmmm, this is the first time I am hearing this novel concept, read the Bible for themselves?!?!? LOL, AMEN! Much of what I see out here today is folks being spoon-fed some man's interpretation of scripture. I believe the reason why there is so much deception being allowed to reign is that people, not all but most, do not read their Bible for themselves. If people read their Bibles they would not fall for these wolves. Just my opinion. Read your Bible, great advice and it should be "common sense" but is not, unfortunately.
I love the closing advice, "If you need sound, historical grounding; read your bible. Read it again. Try reading it chronologically. Read different translations of the bible. Read the interlinear and study the Greek and the Hebrew words..…. Just commit to conforming to no one other than Jesus Christ."
I hear comments from people all the time, "I believe XYZ" to which I will ask, "what scripture points you to that conclusion?" The answer is often, "oh, I don't know the verse. That is just what I believe because that is what I have always been taught."
Justin Peters can’t afford for Todd White to be right - Justin’s whole ministry is criticizing other ministers (this is ALL he does). This video makes it very clear no one should go by what Justin Peters says.
I keep coming back to this video. I don’t know a better representation, up to date, of Justin Peters’ hypocritical speaking!
And, I have seen a lot of JP.
Thank you for this, again and again 🙏
I don't think he understands that he's wrong. Like, a lot of these guys are both deceived and deceivers, but I think Justin is just deceived. He seems like a wonderful guy, I hope one day he's able to find his way out of Calvinism.
Do we know whether anyone has brought these Sproul clips to his attention?
Glad you picked up on the sin OFFERING
So, Jesus becomes accursed in the sense that he was hung on a tree. So what? People did that to him. God didn't want to make a public example of him. His murders put him on a tree. Should we take that and invent a gigantic narrative about what it means for him to be cursed by being on a tree? It comes from Deuteronomy. It's something people did to make a public example of someone's sin. The people who put Jesus on the cross wanted to make a public example of his sin thinking he was a blasphemer. So what? Is there something wrong with being content with what the text says instead of inventing a bunch of stupid doctrines from here?
Cursed "cut off from life" is very different than "accused" (Anathema) in Greek which means "devoted to destruction by a Divine act" Jesus was "delivered up" to Satan and his children (John 8:44) who murdered Him (according to the flesh) penal Substitution-satisfaction theory is based on many gnostic heresies, one being that God executed Adam who was before the fall naturally immortal. John 8:44 calls the devil a murderer from the beginning, he drew man to suicide, God did not kill Adam as a penal act, therefore the answer is not penal substitution, but consequential recapitualtion.
@@joshleibrant5879 Amen, brother. So many Protestants are so blinded. It's no wonder the church is known in this day and age as Laodicea.
Excellent presentation Warren! I like how you structured your video with the JP/Sproul contrast (your wheelhouse is the use of videos in this manner). Then you introduced penal substitution and pointed to more discussion in a more thorough teaching you did. A side note....I'm Charismatic (and I really don't like having to put a description on myself as a believer; nonetheless its necessary.) more specifically Word of Faith and I wouldn't say Todd White is Word of Faith...perhaps as you say...he's associated with Word of Faith. I would say White is an Evangelist who operates with a healing gift. All that to say he's not a Teacher or Prophet (referencing the 5 fold roles of leaders).
Most importantly I appreciate the push back of the Calvinism influence and infiltration into the body of Christ. As you admonished--get into the Word; study the scriptures to find the truth. Thanks! ( Another side....please see Jew and Greek YT channel on the false teaching and misrepresentation by Justin Peters on Word of Faith.)
The Bible says Jesus was a lamb without blemish. I am unclear how he could become sin, my sin, and remain a lamb without blemish. Is this just another appeal to mystery? Sounds like Jesus is A and NOT A at the same time.
They tarnish the incarnation by way of their anthropology & soteriology. Jesus was & remains sinless.
I believe in PSA, but I'm not a Calvinists. Most traditional protestants, especially in the western world, affirm PSA. We're not all Calvinists though.
In regards to the statements of Calvinists and pitchforks, one becomes like the one one worships. If the god you worship is vengeful and violent, it’s inevitable that these characteristics will become a part of one’s own character. Fortunately the true God was revealed in and by Jesus Christ, who said “When you’ve seen Me, you’ve seen the Father.” This simple declaration is the gospel, and nowhere is the true character f God seen than on the cross. The revelation of that character, of One who sacrifices all for the sake of those He loves, the revelation of the Father, reconciles us to Him. A big problem of PSA is that this theory of the cross drives a wedge between Father and Son, when the reality of the cross is the reverse, the Gospel message being when we seen Christ (e.g.
on the cross) we see the Father.
2 Corinthians 5:21 says, “...so that IN him we might become the righteousness of God”, NOT “from him”. To be “in” Christ is a Greek way of saying, “in his group”, or “on his team”, or “linked to him”. The Greek word “in” has to do with our identification with Christ, not about something being passed from him to us. “In” is a word that involves association, not a transfer.
Righteousness is a virtue like love, patience, gentleness. This passage says nothing about the righteousness of God or of Jesus actually being transferred to us. It is by being “in” Christ that we can have God’s righteousness, which is about following Christ, living and behaving as he did. Righteousness is what we DO because we are associated with Christ. It is not delegated to us.
The Greek the phrase is actually “that we might be becoming...” This is about transitioning from a condition of unrighteousness toward righteousness. This phrase has nothing to do with God transferring righteousness to us, but of us transitioning from our unrighteousness behavior toward godly, righteous behavior.
The greater context of verse 21 is about Christ reconciling us to God. If we claim that verse 21 teaches that God transfers Christ’s righteousness to us, we would have a false or reverse reconciliation. The context pleads with us to be reconciled TO God. It is US being reconciled TO Him, not Him being reconciled to us. We have offended God. We must stop offending Him if reconciliation is going to occur. If righteousness is transferred to us, no genuine reconciliation has occurred. The plea of Paul is that WE be reconciled TO God, not for God to be reconciled to us, and the first step in a process of reconciliation is to stop offending.
Sin is an act, not an object or substance that can be moved or transferred, bought or sold. Some may say that Christ became legally sin in our place. This idea would mean that Christ merely accepted a temporary legal label called “sin”. But a mere label called “sin” does nothing at all to motivate us to live righteously, and the verse flatly states that “...he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.” Simply having Jesus become temporarily labeled as a legal sinner provides no motivation of any significance that would move us toward righteous living.
Using verse 21 as transferring Christ’s righteousness is a denial of being made a new creature in verse 17. Transferred righteousness is a fiction, a legal position, and has no immediate bearing on our behavior. Being labeled “legally righteous” does not make us new, where old things have passed away. We would merely have a new legal status called “the righteousness of Christ”. This is functionally equivalent to putting lipstick on a pig - where we are the pig. It makes a mockery of us actually becoming new, and discards God’s demand that we stop sinning and become righteous.
The words “to be” in the phrase “to be sin” is not in the Greek. Without these words the text says “...he made him sin...”. In what sense was Jesus made sin for our sake? I think that this is a reference to what sin looks like, the agony, the cruelty, the wickedness, all put on public display, “...so that in him we might becoming the righteousness of God.” We see the innocent Son of God tortured, suffering and dying, and knowing that it is because of our collective sinful actions and attitudes. Our sin, our unrighteousness, is the cause of this atrocity. We should be horrified that sin led to this unrighteousness, and then flee from our unrighteousness and toward God’s righteousness. The very Son of God was nailed to a cruel cross because of sin. May we flee from all sin so that his suffering will not be in vain. If we do this and become a follower of Christ, we will have as the text says, the righteousness of God and reconciliation with God through Jesus Christ. This fits the context perfectly and fulfills its author’s intent.
There is no Penal Substitution here, no transfer of the righteousness of Jesus to our account, nothing about Jesus taking our punishment or God forgiving us because Jesus paid for our sins with his blood. Paul is stating that the ugliness of sin was put on display by the death of Jesus so that those who follow Jesus will choose to live according to God’s definition of righteousness.
Interesting! How do you explain Galatians 3:13?
@@timothy6828 Galatians 3:13-14 “Christ redeemed [released/freed] us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us-for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree”-so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith.” ESV
Verses 13-14 are a single paragraph that is part of a greater argument that Paul is making against those who claim that followers of Christ must adhere to all the Mosaic Laws and regulations like the Jews had been taught, which often included multiple layers of law beyond what was actually written. In order for the Mosaic Law to be set aside and to become free of it, a higher, superior, law or covenant had to be put in place that was better.
Notice that the verse makes one claim and three conclusions:
Claim: “Christ redeemed [released/freed] us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us…” (Not a literal curse, but a picture of a curse. A literal curse would have rendered him an unclean sacrifice.)
Conclusion 1: “for/because it is written, “Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree...”
Conclusion 2: “so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles…”
Conclusion 3: “so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith.”
The statement and its derived conclusions are part of the logical case Paul is making as to why the Mosaic Law is not required. Therefore, this passage has nothing to do with Jesus being transformed into sin or paying God for sin.
In verses 17-26 Paul explains that the Law of Moses was an addition to the promise given to Abraham and the Law only served as a tutor, a means to establish boundaries, until the ultimate promise, Jesus Christ, would come. Now Jesus defines what is right and wrong, and by having faith/loyalty (not mere mental assent) to his teaching and his example we are being righteous (1 Jn. 3:7). Those who follow Christ have no need of the Mosaic Law because they have a greater, living source of defining what is right and wrong. Instead of following the sometimes abstract Mosaic laws we follow the Son of God who lives out all the righteousness of God.
An example of this is Cornelius, a God-fearing gentile who was considered righteous (Acts 10:22) before even hearing of Christ! Notice Peter’s “theologically-incorrect” statement: “Opening his mouth, Peter said: "I most certainly understand now that God is not one to show partiality, but in every nation the man who fears Him and does what is right is welcome to Him.” NASB
Only after this does Peter actually tell Cornelius about Jesus. “...This is the One who has been appointed by God as Judge of the living and the dead. Of Him all the prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives [Gr. lambanó, Eng. lay hold of] forgiveness [Gr. aphesin, Eng. release] of sins” (10:42-43).
Peter does not tell Cornelius to repent (Lk. 5:32). He was already living a godly, righteous life. He just needed to know that the promised Messiah had come.
@@atonementandreconciliation3749 Thank you, that's really interesting.
Well done, brother. Excellent message and presentation. Watched it two times in a row-I had to get hubby to hear. You have helped us more than you know as we had been Calvinists for 25 years.
Thank you! I appreciate the kind words
On the subject of being removed, when I first saw your video several months ago, I left a very short, subtle comment on the JP ministries channel. I just paid a return visit and it has been removed. Go figure.
Wow! I’m cringing. So glad you have brought this to light. We must handle the word of God carefully.
Sounds like Todd is saying the same thing a Sproul.
Of course, we have to understand that sin and death cannot be separated; they are intricately connected.
It's interesting the conclusions a person can come to under Reformed theology when one doesn't have the bunkered thinking/ teaching that is necessary to hold it all together
Well yes that's where he got the teaching from,
@@alassmann they're angry because Todd isn't part of their tribe (hasn't fully bent the knee to them), and cause his presentation was more evocative, I reckon
RC sproul sees that which is obscene on the cross yet, there was nothing more beautiful then Christ on cross.
There's good reason why both the East and even the church of Rome resoundingly reject this doctrinal innovation of the reformation. Also notice how the Protestants split the Trinity, delving into horrific heresy.
God never turned his back on Jesus. If God is to holy to look on sin how is satan allowed in the thrown room of God?
Psalm 22:24 KJV
[24] For he hath not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted; Neither hath he hid his face from him; But when he cried unto him, he heard.
Job 1:6 KJV
[6] Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them.
Thanks to Mr. Flowers for sharing your channel.
The way you make these videos are awesome. The disgusting hypocrisy of Calvinists is just mind boggling.
They're all about PSA until Todd White said it
Calvinism - "when being better than everybody else ain't good enough"
The Gospel was given to fishermen and those dudes turned the world right side up, but somehow Todd White is "doing damage" because he doesn't have a degree.
ROFL.
Hmmm... it seems that knowing the true Character of God goes a long way in clearing up such misunderstandings... ;-)
Amen and amen!
All sound doctrine flows from a firm understanding of the character and nature of God! AMEN!
I've never heard of Todd White let alone RC Sproul, but if they are indeed wrong, can you explain 1 Peter 2 24? From my reading and interpretation of the bible, Jesus bore our sins in his body....which would indeed mean he became sin in his flesh. Not spiritually of course and not by his deeds....he accepted everyone's sin in his body on the cross. For us to go into Heaven if we accept him and repent of our sins. At that time God could not look upon him...and he asked God "why hath you forsaken me".
Also, a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. So how can a preacher who preaches in a way that some might disagree with save souls?
So technically 2 Cor. 5:21 should read "He made him who knew no sin to become a sin offering..." ?
Am I understanding this correctly?
"He [God the Father] committed Him [Jesus], who knew no sin, to be a sin offering on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him".
The sin offering is "most holy" (Leviticus 10:17) and to be consumed at the holy place (Eucharist/Lord's Supper). The sin offering cleanses (Leviticus 14:19). The blood of the sin offering was to be sprinkled upon the Mercy Seat (Leviticus 16:15).
The Biblical account is extremely contrary to the claims of PSA dealing with unforgiveness and wrath, imputed sin and corruption.
@@IdolKiller This is consistent with Orthodoxy. Spot on as always Warren!
The Bible never says God turned His back on Jesus. It’s amazing how Calvinist teachers add to Scripture and their followers never test them.
Wasn't Jesus quoting i think psalm 22 on the cross?
Yes, and Psalm 31 too.
Thank you for exposing JP. I quess Sproul and Todd in the same boat.
Todd wants the bullies to accept him.
Yep
I recently heard a local pastor preach this and it makes no sense and just like this no clear explanation is offered
I'm not a Calvinist but I'd choose Sproul before Todd but since they are not the only option available I choose neither
Hope y'all have a great day!
its abut 100 times in the OT text....Sin OFFERING....Jesus became a sin offering, He did not become sin.........Therefore, Jesus died on our behalf, NOT in our place....Peter said He was spotless and blameless. Sweet smelling aroma to God. However, Sin is a stench in the nostrils of God.......Isiah 53 " thou shalt make his soul an for sin"..................Be blessed Willie Bonnie
Isaiah 53 " thou shalt make his soul an OFFERING for sin"
Peters the same tatics in his videos. He maybe right in some areas but he usually strawmans them and not accuatly repesent thier views. I guess this is the same. He labels White as a heritic and will tru and use anything to discredit him. Such an unchristian approach to bringing up errors only makes you think how right is Justin Peters if he is willing to stoop to this level. It makes it hard to trust anything he says. At the end of the day Peters will be held to account along with the rest of us,
Bravo Warren. Have you sent this to Justin? He has to respond to save credibility
Like most Calvinists all I've heard from him is crickets
17:06 - 17:20 visuals, and commentary following, are EXCELLENT. Great work!
Some things you don't have to have a doctorate to see some things you don't have to be a scholar to hear. If you have the holy spirit then you know the truth of a man. I just felt this from the moment I saw them without even listening it was this feeling of just illness. I think that the words of the bible are coming to fruition now, we have the false calling out the false more than the truth of salvation from the pulpit. Prayers that all shall seek and find as the holy spirit would lead you. God bless
THE Reformed Penal Substitution Atonement (only from 1500's ad) is READ INTO the verses people use to support it.
Not a single verse says GOD the First Person of the Trinity pours out His wrath, damns, cuts off, and CURSES GOD His Son, and transfers sin to The Second Person of the Trinity while on the cross!
(See RC Sproul)
This is an obvious heresy that tears apart the one essence or very being of God the Holy Trinity into tri theism.
"No one speaking by the Spirit of God can say, "Jesus is accursed!"
1 Corinthians 12:3
Jesus says,
"I and the Father are one!"
John 10:3
"I am in the Father and the Father is in me!"
John 14:10
Reformed PSA causes Jesus to be two persons which is the Nestorian heresy.
Jesus is one person who is truly God and truly man without separation, division, mixture, or change.
PSA teaches a false god!
The Eastern Orthodox belief for 2000 years,
God willingly (John 10:17-18) and in love (1 John 4:8) became a man in the person of Jesus Christ, lived a sinless life, fulfilled the law, and died on our behalf on a cross to go into Hades to set the captives free (1 Peter 3:18-20), and rose bodily from the grave
(1 Corinthians 15:17) thereby defeating and conquering death, sin, and the devil. (Hebrews 2:14-15; 1 John 3:8)
Jesus is in heaven interceding on our behalf! (Hebrews 7:25)
"Since the children have flesh and blood, Jesus too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might break the power of him who holds the power of death-that is, the devil- and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death!"
Hebrews 2:14-15
"You murdered Jesus the Creator of life, but God raised him from the dead. We are witnesses of this. . . . But this is how God fulfilled what he had foretold through all the prophets, saying that his Messiah would suffer. Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord!"
Acts 3:15, 18-19
"Opponents must be gently instructed, in the hope that God will GRANT them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth, and that they will come to their senses and escape from the trap of the devil, who has taken them captive to do his will!"
2 Timothy 2:25-26
When we repent, by turning from sin and receiving Jesus Christ, we are forgiven and cleansed of sin and are credited as righteous because we are made righteous! (Romans 4:5, 7) An alien mere declaration of righteousness by imputation is fiction.
If Jesus was made a sinner to pay a debt then Jesus should be in hell!
See Proverbs 17:15
"If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness!" (Without having sins, we are made righteous)
1 John 1:9
If a debt is paid, there is no need for forgiveness!
"God was IN Christ reconciling the world to himself!"
2 Corinthians 5:19
God was not pouring out wrath and damning and cursing His Son as reformed PSA teaches!
The persons of the Trinity eternally always love each other!
(1 John 4:8; Hebrews 13:8)
JESUS CHRIST IS RISEN!
JESUS CHRIST CONQUERS!
IC XC NIKA
Wow. This is an old video and I’m glad I found it. Was really eye opening.
Great video!!! The hypocritical talk of Calvinists is so tiring.
Oh man, TW's rant was hard to watch but RCS "g-d-ing" our Lord and Saviour was worse.
I love that you always finish your videos by explaining what scripture actually says. Thank you.
2:59 I actually agree with Justin Peters. However, I would also add that Justin Peters has no idea what he is doing, and neither do I. Unless persuaded otherwise, I am convinced that human ignorance of "spiritual" things is terminal. It is a rather bleak outlook, but it does have the added benefit of casting all false prophets and frauds to the ground.
The atonement is without doubt a subject of deep waters, but I feel constrained to comment that God did not forsake Christ. Indeed, God was never closer to Christ than on the cross, which is shown in scripture, where God descends from heaven to be with Christ, as portrayed in Psalm 18, and evidenced by the lighting and thunder and earthquakes (a la Sinai) and described in the text “God was in Christ reconciling the world unto Himself. Christ felt as if He were forsaken, but God suffered with His Son.
This should be really good. Almost made the first comment, second is not bad. Be blessed today Sir. Oh, the first comment will be deleted, that happens on my channel so I may end up being the first comment, oh the pressure! I just want to thank you for your work and your thoughtful exploration. I really enjoy your broadcasts!
I really wish I could save the clip of what Todd White said between the 0:50 - 1:53 mark of your video. It pretty much typifies I’ll push back PSA that not only Justin peters, but the ilk of James White, Hank Henagraff and even Servus Christy a.k.a. Josh Chavez need to hear.
I can’t stand calling PSA a reformed doctrine. I’m not reformed at all and I’ve always seen PSA in the Bible.
Please check out our 7 part series exploring the 17 Claims comprising PSA.
This was good, thank you. I remember watching that sermon and was a tad surprised to say at least :/
Joyce Meyer, Copeland, Hagin all hold to this ridiculous notion that Jesus became sin rather than the sin offering. This is not new... In fact this led each of those to say Jesus went to hell for a while to be punished for it...
Kenneth Hagin never taught that Jesus became sin in an ontological sense. He only taught that in a positional/legal sense. He bore our sin nature away just as the scapegoat bore away the sins of Israel.
I dont have any specific instances though, from the many many sermons I have listened to by Sproul I have come to belive that he had more nuance in his theology and far more human moments in his preaching than any of the other mainstream Calvinists. Unfortunately he seemed to allow other Calvinists to run roughshod over him. Though I don't agree with Sproul on many things I appreciate his humility far in a way over many other Calvinist teachers.
Do you need some kind of help setting up the equipment I sent you,? Or have you decided not to use it? Just wondering.
I have to buy the capture card you recommended. I set everything up but I couldn't get it to work. I need to give you a call and get you to walk me through it. I'll definitely need it for live discussions.
@@IdolKiller I emailed you earlier this week, not sure why my posts seldom stick
Ummm no. Ps. 22: 24 For he hath not despised nor abhorred the affliction of the afflicted; neither hath he hid his face from him; but when he cried unto him, he heard.
Ahh Calvinism, the belief that God causes and plans and performs all things, including Todd White being a faith healer and word of faith false preacher. So I fail to see what the big deal is.
Seems like they painted themselves into a corner.
Todd White is just too honest a guy so he says the quite parts out loud, and hearing the logical conclusion of their theology spoken out loud bothers them.
Justin the heretic Hunter is a wolf, says don't believe them come and believe me, trying to hijack believers
I'll be shocked if he comes out and calls RC's teaching blasphemous and claims he had no business behind the pulpit, or that he was unregenerate.
Interesting video. Thank you for your hard work. I 2 have many disagreements with R.C. however he has also taught me a lot. God bless your ministry. Bro John
So how do we interpret 2Corinthians 5:21? It's a metaphor?
"And so the passage “The Word was made flesh” seems to me to be equivalent to that in which it is said that he was made sin or a curse for us; not that the Lord was transformed into either of these-how could he be? But because by taking them upon him he took away our sins and bore our iniquities." Gregory the Theologian, AD 390
Also, see Hebrews 2:14-18.
@@IdolKiller thanks for the speedy reply. I'm rewatching your series with Paul Vendredi as I prepare for round 2 debating the atonement with my pastor and fellow congregants. I just can't stand PSA because of how it depcits God.
Word of faith is problematic, but not all bad.
Calvinism is problematic but not fatal.
But a Word of faith calvinist?
Oh man.
Watch out.
Cult incoming in 5,4, 3...
Check out videos of Todd White calling down fire from heaven. NAR Antichrist connection anyone?
@@richardcolburn4172 that goes both ways in Revelation: the witnesses and the antichrist figures can both do that.
Really it's irrelevant to both cases unless it actually happens.
In his case it's not so he's neither one of the witnesses nor the antichrist. It merely adds up to he's excessively hyperbolic which adds up to red flags of dishonesty.
And I'm by no means defending him out of tribalism, he seems like a kook.
@@ravissary79 After a lot of thought and study I'm pretty sure he's unintentionally using hypnosis to temporarily heal pain in most of his "miracles." He's taking advantage of his testimony and persuasive personality to exploit a lot of people for money. I'm not sure he knows he's doing this.
@@theologicaldarkweb2695 interesting take.
@@ravissary79 I attended one of his conferences. It was an enlightening experience. I saw some genuine miracles but it wasn't because Todd White has any special power. I suppose I should post a video about the experience...
This proves the blatant hypocrisy of Calvinism. What Sproul said is no different from what White, Copeland, and most word of faith preachers have said concerning the crucifixion. Yet Sproul could get away with it because of his Calvinism. It also makes one question if they are warning people about WOF out of sincerity or are they trying to recruit more to their own doctrine. Just look at the comments and see how many left WOF and joined Calvinist churches.
Wow, I am blown away. Great video, the Calvinist are very judgmental just like Jehovah's Witness, I was a jw for 30 years then went to a Calvinist church. I don't go to any church now. I believe and have faith but too much hypocrisy out there. I'd rather stick to the Bible not someone else's "expert opinion".
I understand! I'd still encourage trying to find some place to fellowship, but it's so difficult
Calvinists assume God uses his power as they might if only they had it.
This is a violation of basic trinitarian metaphysics. God is 3 persons 1 will. Not 3 persons 3 wills. They regurgitate an old heresy and divide christ like the nestorians. You could also throw in monotheletism( monoenergism)
Not sure where in Scripture it says Jesus became our sin. I see that he conquered death, dying in our place, which is the penalty for sin.
I think Todd has said it better than anyone did he gossip no but he became it did he have the seed in his mouth no but he became it in his body praise the Lord
Jesus didn't become sin. Jesus was regarded by us as sinful. Jesus suffered the effects of sin though He was innocent in every way.
Peterson is correct in calling out this view of Jesus becoming sin ontologically, he's just hypocritical in calling out those in his own camp for affirming the same thing.
Is Jesus becoming sin any more fundamental a change than the immortal God becoming mortal man.
Jesus becoming sin is a reference to the incarnation, not a separate event.
@@IdolKiller that is not how our calvinist friends are using the expression. Jesus literally became sin on the tree.
@@IdolKiller 1Peter Ch.2:22,23NIV"“He committed no sin,
and no deceit was found in his mouth.” e
23When they hurled their insults at him, he did not retaliate; when he suffered, he made no threats. Instead, he entrusted himself to him who judges justly. 24“He himself bore our sins” in his body on the cross, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; “by his wounds you have been healed.” "
@aservantofjehovah7849 yes, exactly. They blaspheme Christ and deny His sinless redemptive work.
Grace and Peace to you. As one who believes that scripture harmoniously teaches PSA, Ransom Theory and Christus Victor, I don't think Todd White was in error as long he wasn't implying that Jesus thought evil thoughts.
Thanks for commenting!!
One of the issues is that White, Sproul and Spurgeon treated sin as a substance to be transferred and exchanged. Thus the moment Christ assumed mankind's sin, or the sin of the elect, this was an ontological change which corrupted Him. So the Spotless & sinless Lamb became sin incarnate.
Moreover, such a view splits the Trinity as it claims Jesus could become sin but the Father couldn't even look on Him, that Jesus could freely forgive but the Father couldn't.
I find it an extremely problematic doctrine. I don't believe PSA can be used as a metric to determine who is and who is not saved... so I don't go there with it. I just see it as extremely erroneous and to be avoided.
@@IdolKiller Amen and amen. Have you thought about having a day out the week for teaching and learning how to read the bible correctly, if you understand what I'm trying to say. I don't have a big education and I would love to have a fresh start in reading the bible but I would like to have some help so I don't pick up some of my old learnings I have from Pentecostal teachings so if there's a way you may be able to help, would you please send me your email. Thank you for the work you do in Christ Jesus.
@@IdolKiller Thank you for that explanation.
substitution I think is very clearly scriptural. The wrath of the Father on the Son I don't think.
Christ assumed the totality of our human nature to heal and redeem it. There's a fine line between assumption and substitution, so I think I understand where you're coming from.
@@IdolKiller well it says he was made sin making us righteous, and that our sin was laid on him, and the punishment, maybe not the wrath of the father but just death, was given to him.
I think that's clear enough, as non calvinistic as i am
@@IdolKiller I just can't see how one could deal with those pasaages. He never sinned, he was a sacrifice, taking a punishment supposed for sinners (which is as to become sin) that gave us righteousness. He was treated as a sinner-death.