Ironic (true story) I'm an ex-jehovahs witness, got saved in 2013, started attending Jeff Durbin's church (apologia) met james white numerous times and left their church less than 2 years later. I was newly saved and so flummoxed by unfamiliar terms, such as "tulip" "Calvin" and many others. I heard all the reasons why I was wrong but I now see 8 years later why I wasn't far off. I love Jeff tremendously, he helped me when I was homeless, broke and spirituality beaten-up, I'll always be grateful, however, kindness and generosity are not the only factors in determining truth. So in short, I think it's funny that I was a Jehovah's witness, thought I might had to be a Calvinist and now I watch you and Leighton! Thank you for helping me to finally see the other side, your brother David 👊
Going back to this video for fun this morning on my drive into work and I'm constantly amazed (not sure why) at how Calvinists are either completely unaware or are just too ignorant to realize how they limit God on a daily basis. I can't tell you how many times when debating free will with Calvinists their response is "but what about the millions of choices that God has to work with for Him to accomplish what He wants if man has free will" as if that is a refutation and a high view of God. It's such a low view of God that it's baffling they think it's a solid refutation against "free willers." No, we just believe that God is powerful enough to not have to determine everyone's thoughts, actions, and deeds in order to get what He wants. I mean, He is God isn't He? What's too hard for Him? Apparently giving mankind freedom is too hard for Him in Calvinists' minds. They've created a god in their own minds but are too ignorant or prideful to admit it. We point it out and are laughed at, mocked, and such. It's tiresome. When and how did Calvinists get the supposed "high ground" when it comes to having the "high view of God?" Why do so many believe that Calvinism exalts God more than other views? I just don't see it, and demonstrably so. It's crazy.
Sadly James white willfully misrepresents those who disagree with him far too often for me to consider it unintentional. To put it flatly he has a habit of lying on ppl when they don’t see things his way. He lies on them and ridicules them. Gnarly disposition on that guy
your little series of emphatic edits/ annotations btwn @2:39- 3:34 are _really_ well done! your reply to White @ 5:46 is almost a doxolgy (beautiful!)! WOW! wow.--> JW's reply at 21:25 is so 3rd grade childish!! Well done Warren. This is one of those circumstances where great minds like you and Flowers gently handing James White all the rope he asks for only demonstrates James White is not as smart as everyone (including James White) think he is! GREAT JOB!
@@lonelyguyofficial8335 I was citing the term "doxology" formally... *_doxology: a hymn or verse in Christian liturgy glorifying God_* if you need to nitpick my compliment, I was specifically referring the corpus of hymns or verses recognized in Christian historic liturgy or hymns... but are not. It was a high compliment, not an utterance of ignorance about the term doxology... but thanks for the correction!
I use the example of jujitsu to refute White. In jujitsu an opponent makes some offensive move, the other opponent uses the momentum of the action made by the attacker to his advantage. Boxers do this. Bruce Lee did this. A martial artist will use the choices of an attacker to his own advantage to defeat the attacker.
I’ve always thought that the god of Calvin sounds small and weak given that he can’t accomplish his purposes without controlling absolutely everything.
Another great program 👏 I hold to simple foreknowledge as you know and just see God knowing our free will decisions. Calvinists view of God is beyond pathetic. Keep doing what your doing.
I like your style bro, the video was very entertaining and well thought out. Thanks for taking the time to make this for us all. I can genuinely sense the love and grace of God coming out of you as you talk about these things. I wonder what would happen if we all including( Mr. White ) Would seek to understand before being understood ?
I need to watch something else about James white sometime because I’ve only ever seen him on soteriology 101. I see nothing but pride and unkindness. :/ it’s such a shame.
@@AlanaL3 It sure is a shame. James has received another spirit that is working in him and it has "reformed" him to be prideful and unkind to his own family in the body of Christ.
Unfortunately all of his (and Calvinists in general) “critiques” revolve around gaslighting, false representation, and petty attacks. Quite the contrary to what we understand truly born again Christians to be like. Galatians 5:22-23 “But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.” Thank God that Warren, on the other hand, conducts himself in quite the opposite manner.
I like your Interstate Highway example. Reminds me of Bob Enyart using FDR audio announcing FDR would push the Allies to victory over the Axis powers. I never heard of James White until that Denver debate.
I love you and Leighton Flowers, and how gracious you two are in responding to Dr. White. But I am just going to call it as I see it; if someone lies about what people say, lies about what people teach, and lies about what people belive...well, in the South we tend to call that person a liar. James White needs to repent of his constant lies and misrepresentations, and his arrogance and demeaning attitude. Sugarcoating poor behavior never leads to changes in that behavior.
Another great video. The problem with James White, Justin Peters and the like is they've become so arrogant that pride has blinded them. To openly say that God is unable to do anything outside of causing one to act in a certain manner is ridiculous. Their arrogance no longer allows them to see the simple beauty of the Gospel. Thanks for getting this content out for all to see. May souls be saved.
Calvinists have been trained to be low level thinkers in regards to God working all things together. They really are thinking in terms of human impossibility regarding how God can work things out while allowing us to have free will (not autonomous devoid of God's influence). Think how Mordecai told Esther that if she didn't stand up that God would rescue the Jews in some other way. Calvinists really do have a humanistic view of omniscience. Just listen at around the 11:30 mark to how James White talks about the thousands of people who had to act a certain way in order for the crucifixion to occur. The Omniscience and omnipotence of the calvinistic god is due to him causing everything to occur. He can only know what he causes to occur.
Agreed. I don't know how or where Calvinism became the standard theological view for exalting God and being the highest view of God and His power but it's demonstrably not the highest view. I love what you pointed out about Mordecai and Esther. You are right and even Mordecai knew it, that IF Esther didn't do what she needed to do God would still accomplish His plan to save the Jews. Her free will choice wouldn't hinder God in His plans to do what He wanted to do.
Warren, this is RUclips gold...As always your analysis of the subject matter is spot on...It has always baffled me why Calvinists can’t conceive of a theology where God used the free will decisions of man to accomplish His purpose. In their world, it’s just not possible. God is limited in His power and capability in their world. Period. Thanks for this gem...
The god of Calvinism is so much like the god of Islam that's it's scary. Getting glory is his top priority. The God of the Bible top priority is the redemption of man.
Omg literally when I first heard that I was like "God's whole purpose in making us was to glorify himself? He wants to show mere men how awesome he is? Why? Who's going to remember that anyway?" It just makes God so childish and narcissistic. But then I thought policed myself and was like "I shouldn't think those things of God!"
Additionally, James White is FAR TOO OLD (and un-cool) to be Darth Vader! He's probably more like Gran Moff Tarkin: Old and well established, who's real power is found in the exercise of his command by subordinates.
Calvinists simply don't believe that God can have passive sovereignty. They are simply trying to force God's hand in everything. I think it's somewhat of an insight into the thought police mentality of Calvinists.
"Calvinists simply don't believe that God can have passive sovereignty." It's not even that. They do not live in a world in which the word 'sovereignty' means anything other than omni-determinism. They can't conceive of anything else. They define power as control. Thus, all-powerful means all-controlling. And they are unable to define it any other way. If you try to tell them God is *not* micromanaging the entire universe, including man's thoughts and desires, they will accuse you of believing God is not sovereign, and *nothing* can change their mind.
@@Emper0rH0rde I agree. What I mean by passive sovereignty, is that Calvinists don't believe God has the power and ability to ignore something. They have this strange idea of God being sovereign over humans but not sovereign over His own narcissists obsessive compulsive disorder that forces Him to micromanage. They don't believe God is actually sovereign enough to wash His hands of creation and humanity, scrap it all, cast it into hell, and move on. In Calvinism, God is made in the image of narcissistic man with the clinical disorder known as Munchausen Syndrome by proxy. In Calvinism, God is no different than the Pharaoh of The Exodus who can't let anything go and remain God.
According to James White, the true God can do prophecy, but He can't do people. That is to say, He cannot accomplish what He sets out to do if people have free will. "Puny god" indeed.
James White has a brain. He uses it to resist learning anything that could possibly change his worldview. If he admits he is wrong about one single thing, he would have to admit that he might be wrong about some other things.
Even if you are a staunch Calvinist I don't know how you can listen to guys like James White, John MacArthur, Matt Chandler, etc. and NOT say that they drip with arrogance
Here's what I hate they're talking about complexity and that there's too many free will choices they're really limited the power of our God they're putting limits on his power listen I don't care how many people choices there is God's in control don't limit his power believe, I hate the way it comes up that well the only way God can work everything to his good is predetermination but he predetermines not true my God is greater my God is stronger amen sorry for the rent I had no theological background I just read my Bible and I know what God's laid upon my heart although I love love these programs it's really opened and new world to me so praise God for that fact thank you for what you do very much thank late and flowers thank you many others you have really been a blessing
The point of parables! Yes! And 22:20 Yes! A God who knows all possible possibilities and works to bring about his will knowing all of these things is a much bigger God! Without much awareness or understanding of philosophical debate, this is how I have personally understood God’s nature. How small to think that any choice of any man or series of choices could foil God, or that God doesn’t have a perfect knowledge about the hearts and motives of men and can actively work accordingly. The philosophical debates admittedly make my eyes glaze over at times, but they are interesting and I’ve picked up bits of value along the way. I am curious how often those who engage in these exercises ground their understanding in what God says about himself in scripture. This part is not criticism, but curiosity. It is fascinating to see how philosophy directly impacts the way even us lay people read the Bible and understand its context. I love and cling to the idea of the word being active. I think there are many layers to that. I also loved hearing in one of these streams on philosophy the concept of “loving God with our minds”… trying to reason and understand Him better through debate, logic, etc… He gave us those faculties! Of course we should exercise them, with cautious humility, grounded in the word and prayer.🙏🏻
Just got around to watching this. I'll say what I always say about White... He must have gotten his doctorate in Misrepresentation, because he does it so well and so often that it must be a passion of his.
So, what Calvinists say is that God cannot have foreknowledge, without purposing everything from eternity past. I say this because I've heard Calvinists like White and Sproul mock those that who bring up the foreknowledge of God. It seems to be that my God is actually more Omniscient than the god of Calvinists. Why, you ask? Well, my God knows everything that will happen, He knows every action, thought or deed that will, or could happen, and He USES THIS KNOWLEDGE to accomplish HIS OWN WILL. My God is an awesome God, because He is working in ALL things for my good, even those things which I CHOOSE TO DO FREELY. He's a powerful God.
Even if we concede that Christ was the lamb slain "before" the foundation of the world, aren't we saying that it has always been the character of God to fall into the hands of sinners, forgiving, loving, refusing to repay evil for evil, seeking to redeem etc. Christ will always be the lamb who refuses to return evil for evil. Perhaps this verse is as simple as a statement about the eternal character of God?
God knows the future because he can see the future, perfectly. Not just the possibilities but the actual future. Open theists and Calvinists make this so overly complicated. God doesn't need to cause an event to know, perfectly, that it is going to occur.
“But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.” - Galatians 5:22 When has that actually described the Calvinist, going back to Calvin himself?
Warren, I also have White's quotes from his book Debating Calvinism where he claims sinners cannot EITHER understand or receive truth....then he comes up with the 'disctinction' claiming ...well, they CAN understand truth, but not SPIRITUALLY. White needs to make up his mind whether sinners can understand the gospel or not. I like your point that in the next chapter Paul treats the Corinthians as though they were still carnal/natural.
“They have not known nor understood: for he hath shut their eyes, that they cannot see; and their hearts, that they cannot understand.” Isaiah 44:18 “For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.” 1 Corinthians 2:11-16 “But they know not the thoughts of the LORD, neither understand they his counsel: for he shall gather them as the sheaves into the floor.” Micah 4:12 “And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.” John 1:5
Dr White has his doctorate from Columbia Theological Seminary. I'm not saying this is a bad school at all. It uses the European model of mentorship which will never be accredited in the US, Again not saying that it is invalid in any sense. He wrote a book on the King James Controversy, which is a good book, That earned him his doctorate, Not saying that is bad, just stating the facts. I have no idea what his previous education was,
@@IdolKiller I would say he's clever. That's not the same as smart. Smart people seek truth. Clever people use their wits to support their arguments. Truth is not the issue, which is why he will never debate you. Losing a debate to you in his mind would be losing a game his fans expect him to win. I saw this when he debated Bart Ehrman. He was nervous and Bart saw that. Interesting debate, but a draw with Bart is a win to White. A loss to you in a debate, being far less important in his mind, would be not worth the risk.
BTW, it's truly is like climbing the ladder in the cooperate world. I believe you have the knowledge and ability to be a top impactor now. Still, it requires making others see that, and like boxing, you have to "earn" the right to box the champ. White is not the champ, but he thinks he is. Have you written a book? You have command of the language and ideas, if you haven't you should. I'm sure I'm not the first to suggest that. In the late 1900's early 2000's I built a talk radio network that still exist. I sold my interest, but the point is how do you build on your message? And most importantly, how much more will you be heard when you do? For radio, which is my business, books build credentials. This is why even people on Fox news write cook books and children's books. These days you can self publish for almost nothing. You don't need to write a book, write a booklet, call it a "Topic Resolution" Self publish, sell these short "books" when you have have 10 you have a book! Ta Da. I ramble, thanks for reading.
@@paulwright7551 Yes! I am in pre-production on a book which I hope to have published within the next 24 months. I am also launching another business venture, which if successful would allow me even more time to dedicate to writing it and growing IK.
BTW i say 10 booklets, but 70,000 words which is the average Doctorate dissertation, means 14 single spaced pages per booklet. Columbia might even grant you a degree of some sort for that. :)
Let’s take a look at what the passage SAYS and then expose what Jakes white would read it to say: MATTHEW 27:9 9 Then was fulfilled that which was spoken by Jeremy the prophet, saying, And they took the THIRTY PIECES OF SILVER, the price of him that was valued, whom they of the children of Israel did value; Yes the prophecy was fulfilled of course no one denies that. Jeremiah the prophet prophesied Jesus would be sold for 30 pieces of silver. *Jeremiah did NOT prophecy THE INDIVIDUAL NAME OF THE DUDE WHO would do the selling!* But that’s how you read it. You ADD constantly to God’s Word. Here’s how you read it: MATTHEW 27:9 8 Then was fulfilled that which was spoken by Jeremy the prophet, saying, “JUDAS WOULD TAKE” the thirty pieces of silver, the price of him that was valued, whom they of the children of Israel did value; He ADDS Judas’ name but that’s NOT what was prophesied. The prophecy was simply that Jesus would be sold for 30 pieces of silver and that’s it. Period. Do not add to God’s Word lest you be proved a liar. The only way Matthew 27:9 is a so-called “proof text” for reformed theology is if he believes what I’ve described above as his assumptions. ZECHARIAH 11:12,13 12 And I said unto them, If ye think good, give me my price; and if not, forbear. So they weighed for my price THIRTY PIECES OF SILVER. 13 And the LORD said unto me, Cast it unto the potter: a goodly price that I was prised at of them. And I took the THIRTY PIECES OF SILVER, and cast them to the potter in the house of the LORD. (Side note it’s interesting how in Matthew it says “Jeremiah the prophet” but it’s actually prophesied in Zechariah “ 🤔)
10:11 - 12:28 So he genuinely thinks that God could not be bigger than thousands of truly free agents. Wow. Unless he's defining "autonomous free will" as God being unable to ever *influence* man, let alone control, no wonder he thinks it's impossible. He's not hearing the point from provisionists that God can still intercede, interject and overwhelmingly influence others to change their ways and surrender to him--while ALSO maintaining man's gift of autonomy; i.e, our choices are our choices, and we ultimately decide them. Even in all of the passages Calvinists will pull up to prove divine determinism and how unfree man's will is (Pharoah with Sarai, Jonah, Saul on the road to Damascus), almost every example is God going out of his way to confront these men with a case they have to choose to deal with: Sarai is married, big storm stopping Jonah, the overwhelming presence of Jesus. Calvinists like James White assume that because these men *wouldn't* say no to God that it must mean that they *couldn't* say no to God, as if they have less freedom the more enlightened and confronted by God they are. To think that maturity, that kind diminishes the possibility of performing the "stupid" choices in any situation, makes you "less free" is beyond bad philosophy. We will not sin in Heaven; that will not make us "less free." What a man-centered view of God's presence.
Regarding White's argument about all the thousands of decisions that went into the event of the crucifixion, I don't understand how Calvinists seem incapable of recognizing the problem they put themselves in. I've seen multiple Calvinists give this argument, that God's plans could never ever come about if people had free will. So: 1. The Calvinist says they have the ultimate view of a powerful and glorious God, superior to all non-Calvinists 2. The Calvinist claims that human free will would paralyze God and render him entirely ineffective Non-Calvinists assert that God accomplishes His plans regardless of the free choices of humans, Calvinists say God couldn't possibly do that, then the Calvinist accuses the non-Calvinist of having a small view of God. This is inchorent.
It's amazing isn't it? They really can't see how they limit God to their broken theological and philosophical view. I posit that they have created a god to the liking of their own finite minds. They put God in a box of what He cannot do and then pretend that their view is the highest view. I don't know what to call it but it's definitely absurd.
I am commenting here for those who watch this content. I have asked the idol killer questions before but was asked to watch a video that lasted for over an hour only to not have my question answered. Leighton is also in the camp of not answering questions. It seems to me that the idea that God must cause people to do evil is what is being stated here. So let's think about it like a person who just uses common sense. When God created the world did He know what was going to happen from the beginning to the end. It seems to me that He did because He does tell us exactly how it is going to end. So God knew that if He created the world like He did, and man like He did then everything would be just like it is. It could be that He determined everything to be the way it is or maybe He didn't. Either way, when God created the world He knew exactly what was going to happen and He made it just like He did anyway. I have noticed that Leighton and Warren and others love to debate these topics and when they do they act very similarly to atheist when they debate the existence of God. They say it is on the Calvinist to prove the bible teaches He determined all things to take place. But they don't seem to say what they believe about how God does it. They just say He doesn't determine all things but He does determine some things. How does all of this work according to the bible Warren? Please tell me and all your viewers how God does everything that He does. Please use scripture and not your philosophy because you like to say where is that in the bible. So God made Lucifer and Adam, and both sinned. Warren seems to say if God determined that this was going to happen and that Jesus would come and die on the cross to purchase an elect people for Himself then God is the author of sin. So if God determined by making everything the way He did knowing everything would turn out just like it has He is the author of sin. I would ask why? Are you the judge of who and what makes someone the author of sin? Do you think it is possible for a creature to be made that doesn't sin? I only Know of one being that is sinless on Their own. The God of the Bible. There are elect angels that are sinless but why? Is it because God elected them? Is that why when the non elect angels were left to act on their own they sinned ? It seems to me God made everything good but nothing was God. And if anything is made and left to themselves they sin. God elected some angels and they did not fall because God determined it. Some fell because God determined to make an angel and did not prevent the angel from sinning by electing that angel. God determined to make man in His image but He did not make a God. He made man good and sinless but he was not God. So many fell and God knew it would happen and that the cross and Christ would happen not as a response but it was the plan. God is not the author of sin because He made a world of men and angels knowing that they would sin and everything would happen that has happened. If you would tell everyone what you actually believe about how everything works. Then people would recognize you are not teaching the Bible. Please don't keep hiding your false ideas . Tell them in plan detail for all to see.
You asked for Scripture on why infants are saved & I offered you that information. You didn't actually want it and preferred instead to complain in long posts such as this. That's cool... You're still contributing to the algorithm despite yourself... and unlike some folks, I don't shut off comments or delete them. Anyone familiar with the channel knows this.
@@IdolKiller Not a problem, it is interesting to watch a RUclips video were some one always puts down one idea but doesn't actually explain in full detail what you believe to be the truth. Did God form Hitler in the womb? Did He know what Hitler would do? Did God form him and allow him to live and do the things he did? Could God of stopped this from happening? Is God the author of evil because He allowed Hitler to do these things? You don't actually answer anything. You just criticize the Calvinist who a view and actually present the view even if others criticize them for that view. Why not actually come out fully tell ing everyone about the God you believe is in the Bible. You put down one view but don't actually answer with what you actually believe in full. If you did I think you know a lot of people would recognize the false teachings you are trying to pass as biblical.
Doesn't James White realize how small he makes God to force determinism in order to fulfill prophecy? He really put God in to a box, limited by his misguided intellect
@@Coins1985 I believe the Apostles and ECFs were instrumental in giving us the Scriptures, but now that we have them I believe they are paramount in determining doctrine.
@@IdolKiller Understood. Have you checked out the Reason & Theology channel? They've brought on top notch Catholic and Orthodox guests - I feel like you guys could have a good dialogue
How very sad that this type of video has to be made. I am sorry that you have been portrayed so poorly by JW. His pride juxtaposed to your humility is noteworthy. Keep on exposing the error, WM! The Truth sets us free!
by the way... he keeps his comments off on the video. telsl you all you need to know about his openness to consider and honestly discuss differing opinions
Warren, thanks for this video. One question that is not clear about your position regarding free-will is if you think God can causally operate on our will? I have seen the great Christian theologian Thomas Aquinas argue this position in his sophisticated treatise about free will and grace. And the reason I ask the question is if we deny that God can operate on our wills then how else can this bible verse be interpreted? Philippians 2:12-13 So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; 13 for it is God who is at work in you, both to WILL (thelo) and to work (energeo) for His good pleasure. Note that Aquinas makes it clear that when God “moves” the will, to use a typical Aristotellian category, he only does it towards good and not evil (something that Calvin affirms) You can see Chrysostom taking a very Augustinian position on this verse as well in his commentary on Philipians. Thanks
@@jordandthornburg but then if God can move the will, does that mean that we don’t have free-will anymore? If that’s so, the case against the Calvinist will certainly be weakened
@@HosannaInExcelsis I don’t see it says he “moves the will.” I think it refers to his influence on us, likely by the spirit, by preaching and other means. Even humans can influence each other, certainly God can.
@@jordandthornburg that’s certainly possible, but I think early Church saw that as more of an actual movement of the will. And I am not talking only about Augustine but Chrysostom, which was one of the greek Fathers. He says that: If thou wilt, in that case He will “work in thee to will.” Be not affrighted, thou art not worsted; both the hearty desire and the accomplishment are a gift from Him: for where we have the will, thenceforward He will increase our will. For instance, I desire to do some good work: He has wrought the good work itself, and by means of it He has wrought also the will.
@@HosannaInExcelsis it’s quite hard to understand that translation honestly but I thought we were just discussing what it meant more than what the church fathers thought, but even that is hard to understand for me in that old translation
Yes Pilate COULD have changed his mind, like Judas. MAN IS FREE TO DO WHAT HE CHOOSES. The point is that God knew they WOULDN’T, and because of this He used them for His purpose. Even up the millisecond before giving Jesus over to be crucified, Pilate had the free will and ability to not do this, yet God knew his heart and his response to this situation. There is harmony in free will and God using free will to accomplish His purpose. One can see this if they take of the John Calvin brand sunglasses. God knows the heart of man, and those He FOREKNEW who would FREELY CHOOSE TO REPENT AND BELIEVE, He predetermined to be confirmed to the image of His Son. I mean, I thought this was just basic Christianity 🤷♂️
James White's argument around the 11:00 minute mark makes God so weak that He can't do ANYTHING without forcing people to act how He wants, as if God looses foreknowledge, wisdom, might, and power if man has any kind of will. The only way God is powerful in the Augustinian paradigm is if he meticulously determines everything.
When you put "with James White" in your title that implies he's on the program with you. You might want to consider saying "featuring" instead of "with."
KNOW YOURSELF KNOW THE TRUTH FIND THE TRUTH My question is.. how can adult CHRISTIAN With an INTELLIGENT MIND... Become a CALVINIST and thinks he *KNOWS Himself *KNOWS THE TRUTH *FOUND THE TRUTH AND decides ONE DAY not to be a CALVINIST Mark 16:16 for those who believe and are baptised shall be saved. At what point in his life did he truly KNOW HIMSELF KNOW THE TRUTH FOUND THE TRUTH.. There's a serious problem today with CHRISTIANITY... SOTERIOLOGY 101 Has become if you defeat a Calvinist you are granted SALVATION..😇
ACTS 1:15-20 15 And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples, and said, (the number of names together were about an hundred and twenty,) 16 Men and brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, WHICH THE HOLY GHOST BY THE MOUTH OF DAVID spake before 👉CONCERNING JUDAS,👈 which was guide to them that took Jesus. 17 For he was numbered with us, and had obtained part of this ministry. 18 Now this man purchased a field with the REWARD OF INIQUITY; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out. 19 And it was known unto all the dwellers at Jerusalem; insomuch as that field is called in their proper tongue, Aceldama, that is to say, The field of blood. 20 For it is written in the book of PSALMS, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take. 25 That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas 👉BY TRANSGRESSION👈 fell, that he might go to his own place. VERSE 20 These prophecies that Peter is referring to as being “written in the book of Psalms” are recorded in Psalm 69 and Psalm 109. It has been matter of much debate, whether they do, in their original sense, refer to Judas OR to the enemies of David. *Psalm 69 is NOT to be confined strictly to Judas because Paul also quoted from verses 22d and 23d in Romans 11:9,10 as applicable to the unbelieving Jews IN GENERAL .* ROMANS 11:9,10 9 And DAVID SAITH, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them: 10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway. PSALM 69:22-26 21 They gave me also gall for my meat; and in my thirst they gave me vinegar to drink. 22 Let THEIR table become a snare before them: and that which should have been for their welfare, let it become a trap. 24 Let their eyes be darkened, that they see not; and make their loins continually to shake. 25 Let THEIR habitation be desolate; and let none dwell in their tents. 26 FOR THEY PERSECUTE HIM whom thou hast smitten; and they talk to the grief of those whom thou hast wounded. PSALM 109:5-16 5 And THEY HAVE REWARDED ME EVIL FOR GOOD, and hatred for my love. 6 Set thou a wicked man over him: and let Satan stand at his right hand. 7 When he shall be judged, let him be condemned: and let his prayer become sin. 8 LET HIS DAYS BE FEW; AND LET ANOTHER TAKE HIS OFFICE. 9 Let his children be fatherless, and his wife a widow. 10 Let his children be continually vagabonds, and beg: let them seek their bread also out of their desolate places. 11 Let the extortioner catch all that he hath; and let the strangers spoil his labour. 12 Let there be none to extend mercy unto him: neither let there be any to favour his fatherless children. 13 Let his posterity be cut off; and in the generation following let their name be blotted out. 14 Let the iniquity of his fathers be remembered with the Lord; and let not the sin of his mother be blotted out. 15 Let them be before the Lord continually, that he may cut off the memory of them from the earth. 16 BECAUSE THAT HE REMEMBERED NOT TO SHEW MERCY, but persecuted the poor and needy man, that he might even slay the broken in heart. Some also say that Peter is referring to PSALM 41:9 9 Yea, mine own FAMILIAR FRIEND, in whom I trusted, which did eat of my bread, hath lifted up his heel against me. While David prophesied of the calamities which should befall his persecutors, it was revealed to him by the Holy Spirit, that the enemies and murderers of the Messiah should inherit those curses to a greater extent than the persons in David’s day whom they immediately fell. Again these prophecies don’t specify the 👉INDIVIDUAL👈 Judas. *But Peter looking back on the event can now obviously relate it to Judas in Acts 1:16.*
An evil person doesn’t just change for no reason and starts being different. It’s a silly argument to say Pilate just could have changed randomly as a serious counter argument. That’s not how people work.
What if? The conjunction “If” appears throughout the Old Testament. What if the Jews had actually believed in Jesus? Well, the purpose for God preparing a foundation to receive the Messiah that was postponed from the clan level due to murder, and postponed from the tribal level due to Ham’s shame would have finally been fulfilled on the national level and Jesus would not have had to prepare a foundation for the Lord of the Second Advent through his facing death with a correct attitude. Jesus forgave sin before he died. The scriptures show us Jesus had the authority to forgive sin when he was living on earth. Because Jesus died people wrongly conclude that that was Plan A. No, Jesus came to establish the ideal family that Adam failed to accomplish, that was Plan A for the Messiah. Actually, Plan A was for Adam to not fall. God tells us that in Genesis when he told to our ancestors “Do not eat,” “Do not touch.” The next Plan A was for Cain not to kill Abel so that God could send the person in the position of the Second Adam on the clan level. The next Plan A after that was for Ham not to be ashamed of his fathers nakedness. This would atone for the shame connected to nakedness our ancestors acquired due to the Fall of Man and the Messiah would have been sent to redeem man on the tribal level before things got anymore out of hand. Once again, due to man’s failure in Noah’s time, God compensated for the loss of an opportunity by preparing the national level foundation to receive the Messiah centering on Israel. The 5th Plan A occurs on the international level through multiracial Christianity. If Christians do not hand the resources built over the past 2000 years to the Lord of the Second Advent, causing him to use his life to establish an international foundation commensurate to his mission instead of Christianity heralding him, and presenting the Messiah to the world, Christianity will have repeated the sin of the Jews who failed to know the time of their visitation and did not hand over the spiritual apparatus to Jesus. If this happens, needless suffering will take place. We can have a Cosmic Spring in the Completed Testament Age, or once again forestall God’s Plan for the Lord of the Second Advent who will have come like a thief in the night for the very people to whom God sent him. We’re working on the 6th Plan A as we speak. A thief leaves signs that he came through taking your stuff. When Jesus said he will come like a thief in the night, it refers to those awaiting his return. What if Christians also persecute the returning Lord? You say it will never happen, you’re quite certain? The Jews were every bit as certain as you are, that they couldn’t miss the Messiah, but they did, turning from God’s chosen people to the frontline of Satan against Jesus. Even if they do, once the change of blood lineage occurs through the Messiah’s wedding, all people will be placed on an even playing field, shoulder to shoulder before the Third Adam. Not having ever experienced true equality, this will be the apocalypse, as we iron out how to live as true equals. This day is at hand.
White claims it would be so complex for a baby to be born at just the right time and have it named Cyrus. An angel told Zecharias to name his boy John. At the right time an angel told Mary and Joseph to name their son Jesus. That does not sound too complex to arrange.
I believe Judas had free will up to the point when he ate the bread because the Bible says satan took over from there and then he had the capacity to choose whether he would kill himself or not that’s how I see it
So in Dr.White's view God's omniscience is actually contingent on His omnipotence? WARNING! AD ABSURDUM AHEAD! : Would Dr.White say that God's omnipresents is also contingent on His omnipotence.. therefore God is everywhere because He is actually just really fast?
Do you believe God can make false prophecies given the known probabilities and the law of probabilities i.e. that sooner or later given the chance of being wrong you will end up being wrong at some point.
God has sufficient power and intellect to bring about what He declares. He's also free to make such declarations contingent. Additionally God has had lying spirits deceive false prophets to expose them.
@@ThruTheUnknown I would answer "no" God does not get His prophecies wrong, as I view prophecy to be a declaration of what He will do, always rooted in His nature - thus accounting for things such as man's repentance. His knowledge of future events generally remains in the epistemological category of the possible, until they become certain. Thus God's words to David regarding Saul overtaking Keilah was not unavoidable thus epistemology in the category of the possible - though God knew it perfectly. So when David responded to this news and fled, this wouldn't be a failed prophecy. God knew the genuine possibility but didn't declare to use His power and intelligence to bring it about.
Alpha & Omega, humm! I guess whity means 'Calvinism' is the Alpha and Reformed Theology is the 'Omega' of the Christian faith? I bought a book recently called, 'Calvinismnfor Dummies'. I was sorely disappointed since it only had ine page with two lines: Calvinism summerized: Satan wants everyone. God does not. The end. Bibliography, John Calvin's Institutes
It seems to me as though James White has the lowest possible view of God's power and ability to plan. The world is just too complex for the Holy, Divine, Infinite God.
Too much philosophy and flawed illustrations and little exegesis. Sot 101 does better, but still fails to understand Calvinism, let alone refute it in any way.
Ironic (true story) I'm an ex-jehovahs witness, got saved in 2013, started attending Jeff Durbin's church (apologia) met james white numerous times and left their church less than 2 years later. I was newly saved and so flummoxed by unfamiliar terms, such as "tulip" "Calvin" and many others. I heard all the reasons why I was wrong but I now see 8 years later why I wasn't far off. I love Jeff tremendously, he helped me when I was homeless, broke and spirituality beaten-up, I'll always be grateful, however, kindness and generosity are not the only factors in determining truth.
So in short, I think it's funny that I was a Jehovah's witness, thought I might had to be a Calvinist and now I watch you and Leighton!
Thank you for helping me to finally see the other side, your brother David 👊
James White used to be a brilliant apologist. Calvinism has turned him into an insane, cranky old cat lady who "argues" like an atheist.
I know I shouldn't laugh, but 'Old cat lady'.....gold man! Thanks for that.
Warren I praise God for giving you the mind and His grace and wisdom to utterly defeat our former religion. Hallelujah to the Lord of Hosts!
Going back to this video for fun this morning on my drive into work and I'm constantly amazed (not sure why) at how Calvinists are either completely unaware or are just too ignorant to realize how they limit God on a daily basis. I can't tell you how many times when debating free will with Calvinists their response is "but what about the millions of choices that God has to work with for Him to accomplish what He wants if man has free will" as if that is a refutation and a high view of God. It's such a low view of God that it's baffling they think it's a solid refutation against "free willers." No, we just believe that God is powerful enough to not have to determine everyone's thoughts, actions, and deeds in order to get what He wants. I mean, He is God isn't He? What's too hard for Him? Apparently giving mankind freedom is too hard for Him in Calvinists' minds. They've created a god in their own minds but are too ignorant or prideful to admit it. We point it out and are laughed at, mocked, and such. It's tiresome. When and how did Calvinists get the supposed "high ground" when it comes to having the "high view of God?" Why do so many believe that Calvinism exalts God more than other views? I just don't see it, and demonstrably so. It's crazy.
Concise, Controlled, Captivating- well done Warren, appreciate the clarity in identifying the attack fallacy's Mr. White often uses.
Listening to the sarcastic way James White talks I can see where the neo-Calvinists get their rude attitude from.
White is Jeff Durbin's personal hero in the faith. Explains the way he preaches his sermons. At least on soteriology and theodicy.
Sadly James white willfully misrepresents those who disagree with him far too often for me to consider it unintentional. To put it flatly he has a habit of lying on ppl when they don’t see things his way. He lies on them and ridicules them. Gnarly disposition on that guy
Woah woah woah. dr White is not Darth Vader. He is General Grievous. Darth Vader had a redemption arc.
Actually he is Jar Jar.
@@LizCanKnit 🤣🤣🤣🤣
@@LizCanKnit LOL, that's so mean! XD
your little series of emphatic edits/ annotations btwn @2:39- 3:34 are _really_ well done! your reply to White @ 5:46 is almost a doxolgy (beautiful!)!
WOW! wow.--> JW's reply at 21:25 is so 3rd grade childish!! Well done Warren. This is one of those circumstances where great minds like you and Flowers gently handing James White all the rope he asks for only demonstrates James White is not as smart as everyone (including James White) think he is! GREAT JOB!
What do you mean "almost a doxology"? That was TOTALLY a doxology. 🤣 🙌
@@lonelyguyofficial8335 I was citing the term "doxology" formally...
*_doxology: a hymn or verse in Christian liturgy glorifying God_* if you need to nitpick my compliment, I was specifically referring the corpus of hymns or verses recognized in Christian historic liturgy or hymns... but are not. It was a high compliment, not an utterance of ignorance about the term doxology... but thanks for the correction!
I appreciate this doesn't add much to the debate, but every time I see James White's face my brain shrieks *"SCREWTAPE!!!"*👹😈😱 Can't think why?🤷
I use the example of jujitsu to refute White. In jujitsu an opponent makes some offensive move, the other opponent uses the momentum of the action made by the attacker to his advantage. Boxers do this. Bruce Lee did this. A martial artist will use the choices of an attacker to his own advantage to defeat the attacker.
I’ve always thought that the god of Calvin sounds small and weak given that he can’t accomplish his purposes without controlling absolutely everything.
That was EXCELLENT. And , we are FREE to comment on your channel! James White doesn't allow comments- just like his god! It's a decreed program
😀😅🤣
Another great program 👏 I hold to simple foreknowledge as you know and just see God knowing our free will decisions. Calvinists view of God is beyond pathetic. Keep doing what your doing.
I like your style bro, the video was very entertaining and well thought out. Thanks for taking the time to make this for us all. I can genuinely sense the love and grace of God coming out of you as you talk about these things. I wonder what would happen if we all including( Mr. White ) Would seek to understand before being understood ?
Love your excellent content Warren! Keep up the great work. Your insights really hit home with me and I’m devouring it right now..
In the Calvinistic world, the only way God can know the future is if He plans (determines) it...Now, whose theology is limiting God again??
I laughed because Calvinists say that this is what open theists believe.
@@FutureNotFixed Calvinists and open theists both believe there is no possible way for God to know future events which he doesn't determine.
Wow, James is freely practicing gaslighting.
2 Timothy 3:13
“But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.”
I need to watch something else about James white sometime because I’ve only ever seen him on soteriology 101. I see nothing but pride and unkindness. :/ it’s such a shame.
@@AlanaL3
It sure is a shame.
James has received another spirit that is working in him and it has "reformed" him to be prideful and unkind to his own family in the body of Christ.
@@AlanaL3 Yep. And also hi!!!!
@@AlanaL3 Pride and unkindness are prevalent among most of them. Acting like Jesus is far from their hearts.
Unfortunately all of his (and Calvinists in general) “critiques” revolve around gaslighting, false representation, and petty attacks.
Quite the contrary to what we understand truly born again Christians to be like.
Galatians 5:22-23
“But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.”
Thank God that Warren, on the other hand, conducts himself in quite the opposite manner.
I have a sense that this Calvinism flare up is on its way out. Keep up the great work.
It won't take as long for Calvinism to die out this time around. The signal is getting out there.
I like your Interstate Highway example. Reminds me of Bob Enyart using FDR audio announcing FDR would push the Allies to victory over the Axis powers. I never heard of James White until that Denver debate.
I love you and Leighton Flowers, and how gracious you two are in responding to Dr. White. But I am just going to call it as I see it; if someone lies about what people say, lies about what people teach, and lies about what people belive...well, in the South we tend to call that person a liar. James White needs to repent of his constant lies and misrepresentations, and his arrogance and demeaning attitude. Sugarcoating poor behavior never leads to changes in that behavior.
Who would listen to James White if he changed his Calvinist stripes? He would melt into obscurity. He has to protect his empire.
@@HeavenGuy Well, when you put it that way...I see where you're coming from!
This was very good.) God bless each and every one of you mightily. 🙏🙏🙏
Great stuff.
Another great video. The problem with James White, Justin Peters and the like is they've become so arrogant that pride has blinded them. To openly say that God is unable to do anything outside of causing one to act in a certain manner is ridiculous. Their arrogance no longer allows them to see the simple beauty of the Gospel.
Thanks for getting this content out for all to see. May souls be saved.
Well Stated
In G.I. Joe parlance, James White is Destro. 😉
Calvinists have been trained to be low level thinkers in regards to God working all things together. They really are thinking in terms of human impossibility regarding how God can work things out while allowing us to have free will (not autonomous devoid of God's influence). Think how Mordecai told Esther that if she didn't stand up that God would rescue the Jews in some other way. Calvinists really do have a humanistic view of omniscience. Just listen at around the 11:30 mark to how James White talks about the thousands of people who had to act a certain way in order for the crucifixion to occur. The Omniscience and omnipotence of the calvinistic god is due to him causing everything to occur. He can only know what he causes to occur.
Agreed. I don't know how or where Calvinism became the standard theological view for exalting God and being the highest view of God and His power but it's demonstrably not the highest view. I love what you pointed out about Mordecai and Esther. You are right and even Mordecai knew it, that IF Esther didn't do what she needed to do God would still accomplish His plan to save the Jews. Her free will choice wouldn't hinder God in His plans to do what He wanted to do.
Warren, this is RUclips gold...As always your analysis of the subject matter is spot on...It has always baffled me why Calvinists can’t conceive of a theology where God used the free will decisions of man to accomplish His purpose. In their world, it’s just not possible. God is limited in His power and capability in their world. Period. Thanks for this gem...
James White attacking with Stawman arguments? No, don't believe it. 😕
The god of Calvinism is so much like the god of Islam that's it's scary. Getting glory is his top priority. The God of the Bible top priority is the redemption of man.
I would take it further. God wants a true love affair with man. He can't create that.
@@HeavenGuy lol what
Omg literally when I first heard that I was like "God's whole purpose in making us was to glorify himself? He wants to show mere men how awesome he is? Why? Who's going to remember that anyway?" It just makes God so childish and narcissistic. But then I thought policed myself and was like "I shouldn't think those things of God!"
@@toplobster1040 God can't love himself for us. Love is the free gift of self.
Bahaha! Leighton Flowers as Luke Skywalker..
If james white represents true calvinism then it's surely false.
Additionally, James White is FAR TOO OLD (and un-cool) to be Darth Vader! He's probably more like Gran Moff Tarkin: Old and well established, who's real power is found in the exercise of his command by subordinates.
Ayyy don’t be dissing Tarkin like that!! Tarkin actually had style and charisma 😎
Wait, why would God have needed to harden Pharaoh’s heart if God already predetermined Pharaoh to deny Him and attempt to keep the Hebrews??
Calvinists simply don't believe that God can have passive sovereignty. They are simply trying to force God's hand in everything. I think it's somewhat of an insight into the thought police mentality of Calvinists.
"Calvinists simply don't believe that God can have passive sovereignty." It's not even that. They do not live in a world in which the word 'sovereignty' means anything other than omni-determinism. They can't conceive of anything else. They define power as control. Thus, all-powerful means all-controlling. And they are unable to define it any other way. If you try to tell them God is *not* micromanaging the entire universe, including man's thoughts and desires, they will accuse you of believing God is not sovereign, and *nothing* can change their mind.
@@Emper0rH0rde I agree. What I mean by passive sovereignty, is that Calvinists don't believe God has the power and ability to ignore something. They have this strange idea of God being sovereign over humans but not sovereign over His own narcissists obsessive compulsive disorder that forces Him to micromanage. They don't believe God is actually sovereign enough to wash His hands of creation and humanity, scrap it all, cast it into hell, and move on. In Calvinism, God is made in the image of narcissistic man with the clinical disorder known as Munchausen Syndrome by proxy. In Calvinism, God is no different than the Pharaoh of The Exodus who can't let anything go and remain God.
According to James White, the true God can do prophecy, but He can't do people. That is to say, He cannot accomplish what He sets out to do if people have free will. "Puny god" indeed.
The straw man sings "if I only had a brain." He then says "James White is my hero."
James White has a brain. He uses it to resist learning anything that could possibly change his worldview. If he admits he is wrong about one single thing, he would have to admit that he might be wrong about some other things.
Even if you are a staunch Calvinist I don't know how you can listen to guys like James White, John MacArthur, Matt Chandler, etc. and NOT say that they drip with arrogance
Here's what I hate they're talking about complexity and that there's too many free will choices they're really limited the power of our God they're putting limits on his power listen I don't care how many people choices there is God's in control don't limit his power believe, I hate the way it comes up that well the only way God can work everything to his good is predetermination but he predetermines not true my God is greater my God is stronger amen sorry for the rent I had no theological background I just read my Bible and I know what God's laid upon my heart although I love love these programs it's really opened and new world to me so praise God for that fact thank you for what you do very much thank late and flowers thank you many others you have really been a blessing
Wonderful video. Keep up the great work! It’s very helpful.
The point of parables! Yes! And 22:20 Yes! A God who knows all possible possibilities and works to bring about his will knowing all of these things is a much bigger God! Without much awareness or understanding of philosophical debate, this is how I have personally understood God’s nature. How small to think that any choice of any man or series of choices could foil God, or that God doesn’t have a perfect knowledge about the hearts and motives of men and can actively work accordingly. The philosophical debates admittedly make my eyes glaze over at times, but they are interesting and I’ve picked up bits of value along the way. I am curious how often those who engage in these exercises ground their understanding in what God says about himself in scripture. This part is not criticism, but curiosity. It is fascinating to see how philosophy directly impacts the way even us lay people read the Bible and understand its context. I love and cling to the idea of the word being active. I think there are many layers to that. I also loved hearing in one of these streams on philosophy the concept of “loving God with our minds”… trying to reason and understand Him better through debate, logic, etc… He gave us those faculties! Of course we should exercise them, with cautious humility, grounded in the word and prayer.🙏🏻
Just got around to watching this. I'll say what I always say about White... He must have gotten his doctorate in Misrepresentation, because he does it so well and so often that it must be a passion of his.
So high theology. Oh boy. Arrogance in Christianity is not a good thing. Lord have mercy on us and forgive me for having done so in the past.
So, what Calvinists say is that God cannot have foreknowledge, without purposing everything from eternity past. I say this because I've heard Calvinists like White and Sproul mock those that who bring up the foreknowledge of God.
It seems to be that my God is actually more Omniscient than the god of Calvinists. Why, you ask? Well, my God knows everything that will happen, He knows every action, thought or deed that will, or could happen, and He USES THIS KNOWLEDGE to accomplish HIS OWN WILL. My God is an awesome God, because He is working in ALL things for my good, even those things which I CHOOSE TO DO FREELY. He's a powerful God.
Calvinists define "power" as control. I define power - at least God's power - as the indomitable ability to overcome. He overcame death. *Death.*
@@Emper0rH0rde Would have to say I agree. Although doesn't there have to be a risk associated with free will? If so, how much risk?
Even if we concede that Christ was the lamb slain "before" the foundation of the world, aren't we saying that it has always been the character of God to fall into the hands of sinners, forgiving, loving, refusing to repay evil for evil, seeking to redeem etc. Christ will always be the lamb who refuses to return evil for evil. Perhaps this verse is as simple as a statement about the eternal character of God?
Another gem 🙏✝️❤️💪
Fantastic.
I really like this kind of videos where you explain point to point in an understandable way how dr. White doesn't answer any questions.
After meeting the Idol Killer, Matt became Grease Slick.
Ouch! Lol
God knows the future because he can see the future, perfectly. Not just the possibilities but the actual future. Open theists and Calvinists make this so overly complicated. God doesn't need to cause an event to know, perfectly, that it is going to occur.
Great!!!
James White seems to have concluded that freewill makes it impossible for God to know the future.
That's a pretty big presupposition.
“But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.” - Galatians 5:22
When has that actually described the Calvinist, going back to Calvin himself?
Dr. White can not stand anyone disagreeing with his beliefs. Dr. White refuses corrections. Perhaps he considers himself infallible.
Warren, I also have White's quotes from his book Debating Calvinism where he claims sinners cannot EITHER understand or receive truth....then he comes up with the 'disctinction' claiming ...well, they CAN understand truth, but not SPIRITUALLY. White needs to make up his mind whether sinners can understand the gospel or not. I like your point that in the next chapter Paul treats the Corinthians as though they were still carnal/natural.
“They have not known nor understood: for he hath shut their eyes, that they cannot see; and their hearts, that they cannot understand.”
Isaiah 44:18
“For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.”
1 Corinthians 2:11-16
“But they know not the thoughts of the LORD, neither understand they his counsel: for he shall gather them as the sheaves into the floor.”
Micah 4:12
“And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.”
John 1:5
Your video edits are hilarious
If the cross is not predestined or at least pre-ordained, how do you interpret acts 2:23 and acts 4:24-28
This is why the Bible says. “IN THE FULLNESS OF TIME” Christ was born!
Amen!
Dr White has his doctorate from Columbia Theological Seminary. I'm not saying this is a bad school at all. It uses the European model of mentorship which will never be accredited in the US, Again not saying that it is invalid in any sense. He wrote a book on the King James Controversy, which is a good book, That earned him his doctorate, Not saying that is bad, just stating the facts.
I have no idea what his previous education was,
He's a smart dude. No doubt
@@IdolKiller I would say he's clever. That's not the same as smart. Smart people seek truth. Clever people use their wits to support their arguments. Truth is not the issue, which is why he will never debate you. Losing a debate to you in his mind would be losing a game his fans expect him to win.
I saw this when he debated Bart Ehrman. He was nervous and Bart saw that. Interesting debate, but a draw with Bart is a win to White. A loss to you in a debate, being far less important in his mind, would be not worth the risk.
BTW, it's truly is like climbing the ladder in the cooperate world. I believe you have the knowledge and ability to be a top impactor now. Still, it requires making others see that, and like boxing, you have to "earn" the right to box the champ. White is not the champ, but he thinks he is.
Have you written a book?
You have command of the language and ideas, if you haven't you should. I'm sure I'm not the first to suggest that.
In the late 1900's early 2000's I built a talk radio network that still exist. I sold my interest, but the point is how do you build on your message? And most importantly, how much more will you be heard when you do? For radio, which is my business, books build credentials. This is why even people on Fox news write cook books and children's books. These days you can self publish for almost nothing. You don't need to write a book, write a booklet, call it a "Topic Resolution" Self publish, sell these short "books" when you have have 10 you have a book! Ta Da.
I ramble, thanks for reading.
@@paulwright7551 Yes! I am in pre-production on a book which I hope to have published within the next 24 months. I am also launching another business venture, which if successful would allow me even more time to dedicate to writing it and growing IK.
BTW i say 10 booklets, but 70,000 words which is the average Doctorate dissertation, means 14 single spaced pages per booklet. Columbia might even grant you a degree of some sort for that. :)
Let’s take a look at what the passage SAYS and then expose what Jakes white would read it to say:
MATTHEW 27:9
9 Then was fulfilled that which was spoken by Jeremy the prophet, saying, And they took the THIRTY PIECES OF SILVER, the price of him that was valued, whom they of the children of Israel did value;
Yes the prophecy was fulfilled of course no one denies that.
Jeremiah the prophet prophesied Jesus would be sold for 30 pieces of silver.
*Jeremiah did NOT prophecy THE INDIVIDUAL NAME OF THE DUDE WHO would do the selling!*
But that’s how you read it.
You ADD constantly to God’s Word.
Here’s how you read it:
MATTHEW 27:9
8 Then was fulfilled that which was spoken by Jeremy the prophet, saying, “JUDAS WOULD TAKE” the thirty pieces of silver, the price of him that was valued, whom they of the children of Israel did value;
He ADDS Judas’ name but that’s NOT what was prophesied.
The prophecy was simply that Jesus would be sold for 30 pieces of silver and that’s it.
Period.
Do not add to God’s Word lest you be proved a liar.
The only way Matthew 27:9 is a so-called “proof text” for reformed theology is if he believes what I’ve described above as his assumptions.
ZECHARIAH 11:12,13
12 And I said unto them, If ye think good, give me my price; and if not, forbear. So they weighed for my price THIRTY PIECES OF SILVER.
13 And the LORD said unto me, Cast it unto the potter: a goodly price that I was prised at of them. And I took the THIRTY PIECES OF SILVER, and cast them to the potter in the house of the LORD.
(Side note it’s interesting how in Matthew it says “Jeremiah the prophet” but it’s actually prophesied in Zechariah “ 🤔)
10:11 - 12:28 So he genuinely thinks that God could not be bigger than thousands of truly free agents. Wow.
Unless he's defining "autonomous free will" as God being unable to ever *influence* man, let alone control, no wonder he thinks it's impossible. He's not hearing the point from provisionists that God can still intercede, interject and overwhelmingly influence others to change their ways and surrender to him--while ALSO maintaining man's gift of autonomy; i.e, our choices are our choices, and we ultimately decide them.
Even in all of the passages Calvinists will pull up to prove divine determinism and how unfree man's will is (Pharoah with Sarai, Jonah, Saul on the road to Damascus), almost every example is God going out of his way to confront these men with a case they have to choose to deal with: Sarai is married, big storm stopping Jonah, the overwhelming presence of Jesus.
Calvinists like James White assume that because these men *wouldn't* say no to God that it must mean that they *couldn't* say no to God, as if they have less freedom the more enlightened and confronted by God they are.
To think that maturity, that kind diminishes the possibility of performing the "stupid" choices in any situation, makes you "less free" is beyond bad philosophy. We will not sin in Heaven; that will not make us "less free." What a man-centered view of God's presence.
Regarding White's argument about all the thousands of decisions that went into the event of the crucifixion, I don't understand how Calvinists seem incapable of recognizing the problem they put themselves in. I've seen multiple Calvinists give this argument, that God's plans could never ever come about if people had free will. So:
1. The Calvinist says they have the ultimate view of a powerful and glorious God, superior to all non-Calvinists
2. The Calvinist claims that human free will would paralyze God and render him entirely ineffective
Non-Calvinists assert that God accomplishes His plans regardless of the free choices of humans, Calvinists say God couldn't possibly do that, then the Calvinist accuses the non-Calvinist of having a small view of God.
This is inchorent.
It's amazing isn't it? They really can't see how they limit God to their broken theological and philosophical view. I posit that they have created a god to the liking of their own finite minds. They put God in a box of what He cannot do and then pretend that their view is the highest view. I don't know what to call it but it's definitely absurd.
I am commenting here for those who watch this content. I have asked the idol killer questions before but was asked to watch a video that lasted for over an hour only to not have my question answered. Leighton is also in the camp of not answering questions. It seems to me that the idea that God must cause people to do evil is what is being stated here.
So let's think about it like a person who just uses common sense. When God created the world did He know what was going to happen from the beginning to the end. It seems to me that He did because He does tell us exactly how it is going to end. So God knew that if He created the world like He did, and man like He did then everything would be just like it is. It could be that He determined everything to be the way it is or maybe He didn't. Either way, when God created the world He knew exactly what was going to happen and He made it just like He did anyway.
I have noticed that Leighton and Warren and others love to debate these topics and when they do they act very similarly to atheist when they debate the existence of God. They say it is on the Calvinist to prove the bible teaches He determined all things to take place. But they don't seem to say what they believe about how God does it. They just say He doesn't determine all things but He does determine some things. How does all of this work according to the bible Warren? Please tell me and all your viewers how God does everything that He does. Please use scripture and not your philosophy because you like to say where is that in the bible.
So God made Lucifer and Adam, and both sinned. Warren seems to say if God determined that this was going to happen and that Jesus would come and die on the cross to purchase an elect people for Himself then God is the author of sin. So if God determined by making everything the way He did knowing everything would turn out just like it has He is the author of sin. I would ask why? Are you the judge of who and what makes someone the author of sin? Do you think it is possible for a creature to be made that doesn't sin? I only Know of one being that is sinless on Their own. The God of the Bible. There are elect angels that are sinless but why? Is it because God elected them? Is that why when the non elect angels were left to act on their own they sinned ?
It seems to me God made everything good but nothing was God. And if anything is made and left to themselves they sin. God elected some angels and they did not fall because God determined it. Some fell because God determined to make an angel and did not prevent the angel from sinning by electing that angel. God determined to make man in His image but He did not make a God. He made man good and sinless but he was not God. So many fell and God knew it would happen and that the cross and Christ would happen not as a response but it was the plan. God is not the author of sin because He made a world of men and angels knowing that they would sin and everything would happen that has happened.
If you would tell everyone what you actually believe about how everything works. Then people would recognize you are not teaching the Bible. Please don't keep hiding your false ideas . Tell them in plan detail for all to see.
You asked for Scripture on why infants are saved & I offered you that information. You didn't actually want it and preferred instead to complain in long posts such as this.
That's cool... You're still contributing to the algorithm despite yourself... and unlike some folks, I don't shut off comments or delete them. Anyone familiar with the channel knows this.
@@IdolKiller
Not a problem, it is interesting to watch a RUclips video were some one always puts down one idea but doesn't actually explain in full detail what you believe to be the truth. Did God form Hitler in the womb? Did He know what Hitler would do? Did God form him and allow him to live and do the things he did? Could God of stopped this from happening? Is God the author of evil because He allowed Hitler to do these things? You don't actually answer anything. You just criticize the Calvinist who a view and actually present the view even if others criticize them for that view. Why not actually come out fully tell ing everyone about the God you believe is in the Bible. You put down one view but don't actually answer with what you actually believe in full. If you did I think you know a lot of people would recognize the false teachings you are trying to pass as biblical.
Doesn't James White realize how small he makes God to force determinism in order to fulfill prophecy?
He really put God in to a box, limited by his misguided intellect
In criticizing Augustinianism - how would this mesh with Roman Catholic theology?
RC holds to a lot of neo-Platonist philosophy.
@@IdolKiller Would you support the need for an authoritative magisterium? Or would you support more of a Sola Scriptura model?
@@Coins1985 I believe the Apostles and ECFs were instrumental in giving us the Scriptures, but now that we have them I believe they are paramount in determining doctrine.
@@IdolKiller Understood. Have you checked out the Reason & Theology channel? They've brought on top notch Catholic and Orthodox guests - I feel like you guys could have a good dialogue
@@IdolKiller They also have a shared taste for James White refutation :)
How very sad that this type of video has to be made. I am sorry that you have been portrayed so poorly by JW. His pride juxtaposed to your humility is noteworthy.
Keep on exposing the error, WM! The Truth sets us free!
11:00 "you see, God is so weak in his power that he couldn't accomplish His will unless he divinely decreed it."
by the way... he keeps his comments off on the video. telsl you all you need to know about his openness to consider and honestly discuss differing opinions
God of the Bible : do whatever you want, I'm still in control on my throne
God of Calvinist : no you made the wrong choice, I'm done
Warren, thanks for this video. One question that is not clear about your position regarding free-will is if you think God can causally operate on our will? I have seen the great Christian theologian Thomas Aquinas argue this position in his sophisticated treatise about free will and grace. And the reason I ask the question is if we deny that God can operate on our wills then how else can this bible verse be interpreted?
Philippians 2:12-13 So then, my beloved, just as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; 13 for it is God who is at work in you, both to WILL (thelo) and to work (energeo) for His good pleasure.
Note that Aquinas makes it clear that when God “moves” the will, to use a typical Aristotellian category, he only does it towards good and not evil (something that Calvin affirms)
You can see Chrysostom taking a very Augustinian position on this verse as well in his commentary on Philipians.
Thanks
I see no reason why Gods influence on us can’t explain that.
@@jordandthornburg but then if God can move the will, does that mean that we don’t have free-will anymore? If that’s so, the case against the Calvinist will certainly be weakened
@@HosannaInExcelsis I don’t see it says he “moves the will.” I think it refers to his influence on us, likely by the spirit, by preaching and other means. Even humans can influence each other, certainly God can.
@@jordandthornburg that’s certainly possible, but I think early Church saw that as more of an actual movement of the will. And I am not talking only about Augustine but Chrysostom, which was one of the greek Fathers. He says that:
If thou wilt, in that case He will “work in thee to will.” Be not affrighted, thou art not worsted; both the hearty desire and the accomplishment are a gift from Him: for where we have the will, thenceforward He will increase our will. For instance, I desire to do some good work: He has wrought the good work itself, and by means of it He has wrought also the will.
@@HosannaInExcelsis it’s quite hard to understand that translation honestly but I thought we were just discussing what it meant more than what the church fathers thought, but even that is hard to understand for me in that old translation
I'm very confused would someone please explain the difference between dynamic omniscience and just bare bones open theism
Tune in the 16th @ 6pm eastern. Dr John Sanders will be on and we will dig in to this very topic
@@IdolKiller oh cool I'll check it out then 🙂
James White lies constantly about open theism. We believe God's knowledge is completely exhaustive.
Do open theists believe God is bound by time and he doesn't see the actual beginning to the end?
It's such a creepy thought that God would or could get pleasure by making man pre programmed animated manikins.
Yes Pilate COULD have changed his mind, like Judas. MAN IS FREE TO DO WHAT HE CHOOSES. The point is that God knew they WOULDN’T, and because of this He used them for His purpose.
Even up the millisecond before giving Jesus over to be crucified, Pilate had the free will and ability to not do this, yet God knew his heart and his response to this situation. There is harmony in free will and God using free will to accomplish His purpose. One can see this if they take of the John Calvin brand sunglasses.
God knows the heart of man, and those He FOREKNEW who would FREELY CHOOSE TO REPENT AND BELIEVE, He predetermined to be confirmed to the image of His Son.
I mean, I thought this was just basic Christianity 🤷♂️
James White's argument around the 11:00 minute mark makes God so weak that He can't do ANYTHING without forcing people to act how He wants, as if God looses foreknowledge, wisdom, might, and power if man has any kind of will. The only way God is powerful in the Augustinian paradigm is if he meticulously determines everything.
When you put "with James White" in your title that implies he's on the program with you. You might want to consider saying "featuring" instead of "with."
4:12 “spicy” is how we roll! 🔥 🔥 😎
You know it!
KNOW YOURSELF
KNOW THE TRUTH
FIND THE TRUTH
My question is..
how can adult CHRISTIAN With an INTELLIGENT MIND...
Become a CALVINIST and thinks he *KNOWS Himself
*KNOWS THE TRUTH
*FOUND THE TRUTH
AND decides ONE DAY not to be a CALVINIST
Mark 16:16 for those who believe and are baptised shall be saved.
At what point in his life did he truly
KNOW HIMSELF
KNOW THE TRUTH
FOUND THE TRUTH..
There's a serious problem today with CHRISTIANITY...
SOTERIOLOGY 101
Has become if you defeat a Calvinist you are granted SALVATION..😇
God cant have a boy named Cyrus born at the right time right place. Oh what a small god
ACTS 1:15-20
15 And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples, and said, (the number of names together were about an hundred and twenty,)
16 Men and brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, WHICH THE HOLY GHOST BY THE MOUTH OF DAVID spake before
👉CONCERNING JUDAS,👈 which was guide to them that took Jesus.
17 For he was numbered with us, and had obtained part of this ministry.
18 Now this man purchased a field with the REWARD OF INIQUITY; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out.
19 And it was known unto all the dwellers at Jerusalem; insomuch as that field is called in their proper tongue, Aceldama, that is to say, The field of blood.
20 For it is written in the book of PSALMS, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take.
25 That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas
👉BY TRANSGRESSION👈 fell, that he might go to his own place.
VERSE 20 These prophecies that Peter is referring to as being “written in the book of Psalms” are recorded in Psalm 69 and Psalm 109.
It has been matter of much debate, whether they do, in their original sense, refer to Judas OR to the enemies of David.
*Psalm 69 is NOT to be confined strictly to Judas because Paul also quoted from verses 22d and 23d in Romans 11:9,10 as applicable to the unbelieving Jews IN GENERAL .*
ROMANS 11:9,10
9 And DAVID SAITH, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:
10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.
PSALM 69:22-26
21 They gave me also gall for my meat; and in my thirst they gave me vinegar to drink.
22 Let THEIR table become a snare before them: and that which should have been for their welfare, let it become a trap.
24 Let their eyes be darkened, that they see not; and make their loins continually to shake.
25 Let THEIR habitation be desolate; and let none dwell in their tents.
26 FOR THEY PERSECUTE HIM whom thou hast smitten; and they talk to the grief of those whom thou hast wounded.
PSALM 109:5-16
5 And THEY HAVE REWARDED ME EVIL FOR GOOD, and hatred for my love.
6 Set thou a wicked man over him: and let Satan stand at his right hand.
7 When he shall be judged, let him be condemned: and let his prayer become sin.
8 LET HIS DAYS BE FEW; AND LET ANOTHER TAKE HIS OFFICE.
9 Let his children be fatherless, and his wife a widow.
10 Let his children be continually vagabonds, and beg: let them seek their bread also out of their desolate places.
11 Let the extortioner catch all that he hath; and let the strangers spoil his labour.
12 Let there be none to extend mercy unto him: neither let there be any to favour his fatherless children.
13 Let his posterity be cut off; and in the generation following let their name be blotted out.
14 Let the iniquity of his fathers be remembered with the Lord; and let not the sin of his mother be blotted out.
15 Let them be before the Lord continually, that he may cut off the memory of them from the earth.
16 BECAUSE THAT HE REMEMBERED NOT TO SHEW MERCY, but persecuted the poor and needy man, that he might even slay the broken in heart.
Some also say that Peter is referring to
PSALM 41:9
9 Yea, mine own FAMILIAR FRIEND, in whom I trusted, which did eat of my bread, hath lifted up his heel against me.
While David prophesied of the calamities which should befall his persecutors, it was revealed to him by the Holy Spirit, that the enemies and murderers of the Messiah should inherit those curses to a greater extent than the persons in David’s day whom they immediately fell.
Again these prophecies don’t specify the 👉INDIVIDUAL👈 Judas.
*But Peter looking back on the event can now obviously relate it to Judas in Acts 1:16.*
An evil person doesn’t just change for no reason and starts being different. It’s a silly argument to say Pilate just could have changed randomly as a serious counter argument. That’s not how people work.
Was the needed change a result of God's decree?
@@coryalbright9798 I honestly don’t understand the question
Was the evil person in need of change decreed to be an evil person in need of change?
@@coryalbright9798 ?? I didn’t say an evil person was in need of change.
@@jordandthornburg can He change? If not, why?
What if? The conjunction “If” appears throughout the Old Testament. What if the Jews had actually believed in Jesus? Well, the purpose for God preparing a foundation to receive the Messiah that was postponed from the clan level due to murder, and postponed from the tribal level due to Ham’s shame would have finally been fulfilled on the national level and Jesus would not have had to prepare a foundation for the Lord of the Second Advent through his facing death with a correct attitude.
Jesus forgave sin before he died. The scriptures show us Jesus had the authority to forgive sin when he was living on earth. Because Jesus died people wrongly conclude that that was Plan A. No, Jesus came to establish the ideal family that Adam failed to accomplish, that was Plan A for the Messiah. Actually, Plan A was for Adam to not fall. God tells us that in Genesis when he told to our ancestors “Do not eat,” “Do not touch.”
The next Plan A was for Cain not to kill Abel so that God could send the person in the position of the Second Adam on the clan level. The next Plan A after that was for Ham not to be ashamed of his fathers nakedness. This would atone for the shame connected to nakedness our ancestors acquired due to the Fall of Man and the Messiah would have been sent to redeem man on the tribal level before things got anymore out of hand. Once again, due to man’s failure in Noah’s time, God compensated for the loss of an opportunity by preparing the national level foundation to receive the Messiah centering on Israel.
The 5th Plan A occurs on the international level through multiracial Christianity. If Christians do not hand the resources built over the past 2000 years to the Lord of the Second Advent, causing him to use his life to establish an international foundation commensurate to his mission instead of Christianity heralding him, and presenting the Messiah to the world, Christianity will have repeated the sin of the Jews who failed to know the time of their visitation and did not hand over the spiritual apparatus to Jesus.
If this happens, needless suffering will take place. We can have a Cosmic Spring in the Completed Testament Age, or once again forestall God’s Plan for the Lord of the Second Advent who will have come like a thief in the night for the very people to whom God sent him. We’re working on the 6th Plan A as we speak. A thief leaves signs that he came through taking your stuff. When Jesus said he will come like a thief in the night, it refers to those awaiting his return.
What if Christians also persecute the returning Lord? You say it will never happen, you’re quite certain? The Jews were every bit as certain as you are, that they couldn’t miss the Messiah, but they did, turning from God’s chosen people to the frontline of Satan against Jesus. Even if they do, once the change of blood lineage occurs through the Messiah’s wedding, all people will be placed on an even playing field, shoulder to shoulder before the Third Adam. Not having ever experienced true equality, this will be the apocalypse, as we iron out how to live as true equals. This day is at hand.
ever notice calvinist can never stay on topic and need to deflect or throw out a red herring to something more defendable
White claims it would be so complex for a baby to be born at just the right time and have it named Cyrus. An angel told Zecharias to name his boy John. At the right time an angel told Mary and Joseph to name their son Jesus. That does not sound too complex to arrange.
I believe Judas had free will up to the point when he ate the bread because the Bible says satan took over from there and then he had the capacity to choose whether he would kill himself or not that’s how I see it
you were determined to make this video
So in Dr.White's view God's omniscience is actually contingent on His omnipotence?
WARNING! AD ABSURDUM AHEAD! : Would Dr.White say that God's omnipresents is also contingent on His omnipotence.. therefore God is everywhere because He is actually just really fast?
James White is insecure
No one who is confident in their views would be this vicious
Pilate could have done what was right, but not in this Creation Plan, because God picked this Creation Plan where Pilate chose to do wrong.
God is not Dr. Strange. He is omnipresent and omniscient.
Do you believe God can make false prophecies given the known probabilities and the law of probabilities i.e. that sooner or later given the chance of being wrong you will end up being wrong at some point.
God has sufficient power and intellect to bring about what He declares. He's also free to make such declarations contingent. Additionally God has had lying spirits deceive false prophets to expose them.
@@IdolKiller
I'm a bit confused is that a yes or a no, can God make a prophecy that he ends up getting wrong?
@@ThruTheUnknown I would answer "no" God does not get His prophecies wrong, as I view prophecy to be a declaration of what He will do, always rooted in His nature - thus accounting for things such as man's repentance.
His knowledge of future events generally remains in the epistemological category of the possible, until they become certain. Thus God's words to David regarding Saul overtaking Keilah was not unavoidable thus epistemology in the category of the possible - though God knew it perfectly. So when David responded to this news and fled, this wouldn't be a failed prophecy. God knew the genuine possibility but didn't declare to use His power and intelligence to bring it about.
James White (theologian) net worth
$21.4 million
Alpha & Omega, humm! I guess whity means 'Calvinism' is the Alpha and Reformed Theology is the 'Omega' of the Christian faith?
I bought a book recently called, 'Calvinismnfor Dummies'. I was sorely disappointed since it only had ine page with two lines: Calvinism summerized: Satan wants everyone. God does not. The end. Bibliography, John Calvin's Institutes
It seems to me as though James White has the lowest possible view of God's power and ability to plan. The world is just too complex for the Holy, Divine, Infinite God.
Are you going to back anything up with actual scripture? It’s called exegesis.
James white tore this video to shreds. Good sound biblical EXEGESIS is needed in a world that has hated the truths of God and the Gospel.
You'll should start listening to James White. He is correct. This man and Leighton Flowers are feeding you pure made man religion.
Lol! This is the sort of comment I can't tell if its sincere or parody, but thanks regardless ☺
James White is like a dumpster garbage in garbage out.
Too much philosophy and flawed illustrations and little exegesis. Sot 101 does better, but still fails to understand Calvinism, let alone refute it in any way.