Judas, Pilate and Open Theism
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- Опубликовано: 11 мар 2021
- First we deal with Warren McGrew (AKA "Idol killer") & Chris Fisher and the question, “Could Judas have done the right thing and not betrayed Jesus?” in reference to Jesus’ self-identification in John 13:19.
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#Twitter #freewill
Keep up the good work James.👍🏽
Open Theism is most definitely a hydra, therefore it must be cut back every so often.
Christ being our Passover lamb demanded that he fulfilled the Passover lamb sacrifice on Passover! Therefore it could not be changed!
@@1newme425 actually in context I was referring to the demand of the circumstances or fulfillment of the Passover lamb..
but to understand Jesus prayer to take this cup away but your will be done ,we must accept that Christ was not born ! Jesus was born..
@@1newme425 Christ was fully man, fully God, fully son of God .. it shouldn’t be surprising to see each of these three unique personalities emerge in scripture.
@@theespjames4114 truly God, truly man*
@13:29 Hey Dr. White. I know what a sewing machine is. 🤣. In all seriousness, thanks you for this teaching. 🤝. I watch a lot but never comment, but I had to correct you on this. 🤣🤣🤣💪🏼💪🏼👊🏼🤝
Awesome
The concept of biblical typology is also completely incoherent in a human free will system. Are we to believe that all the prophetic foreshadows of Christ throughout the entire Old Testament just so happened to work out because of free human choices?
For instance, Jesus said Jonah being in the fish’s belly for 3 days was a type of His own 3 day burial following His crucifixion. Are we to believe that the free human choices of Jonah and everyone around him happened to work out just right so that those events ended up painting a prophetic picture of Christ’s future work?
I mean... a God who can work through the free will of man is definitely wiser and greater than one who has to forces people to do things
@@tajjune103 if all things are known by God, and all occurrences must be approved by God in order to take place, then logically God decrees all events, since only God is eternal whereas all creatures are time-bound. Man, by definition, is not free, because he is bound by time, the sin nature, as well as countless other limitations. Only God is truly free.
@Sage of Synergism God is the Creator of time, so therefore He is not limited by it. He is able to interact with the finite, time-bound world He created whilst not being contained by its limitations.
@@codyreitsma5918 I think you are using the term 'free will' in a very narrow sense. There are several theories of free will, not all of the would have the problem you bring up. I don't thing the Reformed version of free will as found in Westminster Confession chapter 9 has that problem, for example.
@@oracleoftroy when I say “free will,” I mean the idea of human autonomy (i.e. the notion that God essentially reacts to events based on what humans freely choose). I don’t follow any confession outside of Scripture, but I believe Scripture clearly teaches that man is finite, enslaved to sin, unable to choose God, and that God enacts double predestination (see Romans 9:21-24 and 1 Peter 2:7-8). So on a purely biblical basis, I don’t believe man is free at all, because he absolutely will meet the destiny God has preordained for him.
The Cross had to happen as it did. God foreordained it from The Beginning.
Teleology writ large.
Acts 2:22-23
22 “Men of Israel, listen to these words: (A)Jesus the Nazarene, (B)a Man [a]attested to you by God with [b]miracles and (C)wonders and [c]signs which God performed through Him in your midst, just as you yourselves know- 23 this Man, delivered over by the (D)predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God, (E)you nailed to a cross by the hands of [d]godless men and put Him to death.
We are supposed to use the Word, the Sword, to defeat the enemies of our King. The Armor of God is used to protect us from the attacks of demons.
The God of scripture doesn’t force you to make any choices, he just knows what you will do.
NicoCoco Then why would He bother to change Joshua's name from YHVH Is Salvation into YHVH Is My Salvation?
If God isn't forcing you to put yourself away and pick up your cross daily then your not his child.
@@1newme425
I didn't judge anyone
Is Warren McGrew actually an open theist, or is that just what people are labeling him? I've watched some of his videos, and even though he's most definitely an anti-Calvinist, I haven't seen any indication that he's an open theist. He has interviewed open theists, but that doesn't mean he agrees with them (he has also interviewed Arminians and Molinists, but he doesn't identify with those soteriologies either).
I have a response video as does Idol Killer addressing this video.
Watched your video.
I was expecting a reply on the content of what James White said, as opposed to how you felt about how he presented the information.
So just some thoughts i had.
1. You said that Provisionists are not man centered but i didn't hear you say how. Granted your video was more about how Dr. White spoke but if you disagree with a point it would be nice to have at least one quick example.
2. I don't think Dr. White would disagree to an extent that he could be more gracious but also he is an apologist and that carries with it a certain method of communicating a point forcefully and clearly, especially if it's a fact (as opposed to "opinion").
3. I wonder if he'd be willing to have a talk with you about your concerns. People on stage can be different in person.
I think we might disagree on what's fact vs opinion, but i hope we'd all agree on scripture, accurately interpreted, is not opinion but fact.
Thank you for spending 40+ min of your bday to give your thoughts. These are just my own. Cheers.
What if Mary had a daughter?
Then feminists would be more common probably
It pleased God to smite him. Judas the son of perdition he was born to betray Christ. His betrayal was foretold.
@Steve Dunn You said: “He was born to betray Christ”
Ya nowhere in scripture does it say that.
Foretold does not equal fore-ordained.
@@apilkey
No the Bible does not say
"Judas was born to betray Jesus"
Lol
@@billyr9162 I said BETRAY not portray
LOL
@@apilkey
Typo
@@apilkey
500 years before judas was born a prophecy was written about him.
Then I said to them, “If it seems good to you, pay me my wages, but if not, forget it.” So they weighed out my payment - thirty pieces of silver. The LORD then said to me, “Throw to the potter that exorbitant sum at which they valued me!” So I took the thirty pieces of silver and threw them to the potter at the temple of the LORD.
Zechariah 11:12-13
Then he was born and did what prophecy said he would do.
Hey dude when are you debating dyer?
God uses men as tools, be it for good or evil. At the same time, there can be no Judgement without free will.
That is incorrect. Judgment isn't dependent on "free" will. In fact, Romans 9:19-24 addresses that. Judgment is based on God's attributes and man's sinfulness. 1 John 3:4 describes sin and that applies to all mankind (Romans 3:23); therefore God rightly judges them.
Eric Smith, Servant of Jesus Christ
You're so OFF.
Man being even identified as Man requires Free Will.
Sin requires Free Will. Personal Sovereignty is an attribute of human beings. Sorry, you're not special. We are all equally sinners and condemned because we are human beings that can say "I Am" in the face of The I AM.
@@kelvyquayo Thank you brother. I was tiring.
@@kelvyquayo I never said I was special; perhaps you must be imagining that I wrote that. And I don't mind being "off" as long as you show me from scripture. You didn't, so your opinion doesn't matter to me. As for "Sin requires free will," since Jesus said whoever commits sin is a servant (or better, slave) to sin that only He can set us free (John 8:34-36), man's will is only "free" to sin. As for "personal sovereignty" being an attribute of human beings; that's foolishness. That only describes God. No human being could say what God says in Isaiah 46:9-11. In fact, the scripture tells us we shouldn't even say we shall live or do this or that unless the Lord wills (James 4:15). And as Christians, Jesus said without Him we could do nothing (John 15:5); we can't even come to Christ in faith unless God the Father draws us (John 6:44).
Proverbs 16:9 says, "A man's heart deviseth his way: but the Lord directeth his steps." Proverbs 16:1 says, "The preparations of the heart in man, and the answer of the tongue, is from the Lord." Proverbs 21:1 says, "The king's heart is in the hand of the Lord, as the rivers of water: he turneth it whithersover he will." And the last time a king bragged about his own "sovereignty," God made him act like an animal." (Daniel 4:30-33) Once he came back to his right mind, this king proclaimed these words, "And at the end of the days I Nebuchadnezzar lifted up mine eyes unto heaven, and mine understanding returned unto me, and I blessed the most High, and I praised and honoured him that liveth for ever, whose dominion is an everlasting dominion, and his kingdom is from generation to generation: And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?" (Daniel 4:34-35) So based on the scriptures, I strongly disagree, and as a Christian, I always agree with the God-breathed, sufficient Word (2 Timothy 3:16-17) over mere assertions.
@@2timothy23
Read the blessings and the curses. God judges based on free will choices.
Your misunderstanding of Rom 9 and Rom 3 doesn’t erase what the rest of the bible says friend.
Not everyone who doesn’t believe in Calvinist predestination is an open theist lol
You weren't reading the Twitter thread. They are heading directly into Open Theism. Warren asserts, "Pilate could have chosen to do the right thing." If he's consistent, he must also say that Judas could have chosen to do the right thing, which is the context in which this video is made.
@@johnmyers3450 I wasn’t even speaking about mcgrew. Dr white constantly creates a false disagreement where if you aren’t a Calvinist, you’re an open theist or Arminian. I diisagree with the Calvinist, the Arminian and the open theist
@@chadh.5004 He's pushing Warren to be consistent with his own professions. The consistent free willer is an open theist. Not that they affirm open theism, but rather their position, if it was consistent (which it isn't) would be in perfect harmony with open theism. He's not accusing them of holding to it. He's demonstrating that their position would logically leave the door wide open for open theism.
John Myers Complete nonsense straw man. Even if I had ZERO alternate to Compatiblism it would NOT require Open Theism.. this may be true for YOU which is why you must remain believing this aberration. Are you people incapable of saying "I don't know"? You are OK appealing to mystery when it comes to the contradiction in your view.. yet I am not allowed a mystery so I must go into Open Theism? Garbage.
YHVH knows the end from the beginning. He sees all and knows all actual and potential and has all power and authority to control or grant sovereignty upon His creation.
We are image of God. We have our own Words just as He Is His Own Word.
Yeah, but many Provisionists are. 🙂
Some things happened by default and other things happen by design but the idea that all things happen by design is purely religious superstition. It's actually pantheism to a degree. The idea that the universe relies moment-by-moment upon the direct manipulation of God is partial Pantheism and religious superstition.
The best thing to do is to live in reality which is to know that man does things and God knows what man does or what man is capable of and God can orchestrate his will and man's nature and inclinations all into his sovereign plan. But if you want to assume define meticulous manipulation and predeterminism into everything then you're simply a superstitious panentheist if not a pantheist.
BrWilson wrote: "Some things happened by default and other things happen by design but the idea that all things happen by design is purely religious superstition."
Please provide the Biblical text(s) that teach this.
[Edit: Added a line space.]
@@electronicMI Jeremiah 32:35 They built high places for Baal in the Valley of Ben Hinnom to sacrifice their sons and daughters to Molek, though I never commanded-nor did it enter my mind-that they should do such a detestable thing and so make Judah sin."
@@heyman5525 : Do you think that this means that God was caught off guard and taken by surprise by what Israel did?
@@electronicMI I dont
@Sage of Synergismwrote: "did God intend for them to sacrifice their children?"
Yes, in order to accomplish all that He purposes, working all things according to the counsel of his will, to wit:
► “Our God is in the heavens; he does all that he pleases.” (Psalm 115:3)
► “At the end of the days I, Nebuchadnezzar, lifted my eyes to heaven, and my reason returned to me, and I blessed the Most High, and praised and honored him who lives forever, for his dominion is an everlasting dominion, and his kingdom endures from generation to generation; all the inhabitants of the earth are accounted as nothing, and he does according to his will among the host of heaven and among the inhabitants of the earth; and none can stay his hand or say to him, “What have you done?”” (Daniel 4:34-35)
► “The LORD looks down from heaven; he sees all the children of man; from where he sits enthroned he looks out on all the inhabitants of the earth, he who fashions the hearts of them all and observes all their deeds.” (Psalm 33:13-15)
► ““Remember this and stand firm, recall it to mind, you transgressors, remember the former things of old; for I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me, declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times things not yet done, saying, ‘My counsel shall stand, and I will accomplish all my purpose,’ calling a bird of prey from the east, the man of my counsel from a far country. I have spoken, and I will bring it to pass; I have purposed, and I will do it.” (Isaiah 46:8-11)
► “You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory-” (Romans 9:19-23)
Oh the complexity of it all, it must really overwhelm an infinitely omniscient and omnipotent God. The God of Calvinism is so fragile
Seriously.. What is this?
@@kelvyquayo I don't get your comment
So by your belief there can be no Judgement.
You are incorrect. You misunderstand what I said. The extremist is always on the fringe, where the truth does not abide.
What kind of a debate was that? This is one of the stupidest arguments i have ever heard, coming from the open theist.
Every day..... what is the obsession with Calvanism? What does any of this have to do with what's actually important to the furtherance of the gospel? What does all this predestination rhetoric (mind you, I believe in predestination) have to do with anything? Theologians get so hung up on silly stuff that is adiaphora.
1. Not "every day"...
2. This is an apologetics channel. (He also preaches at his church and does evangelism.) His ministry equips believers to defend the faith so it's vital and does a lot to further the Gospel.
3. Bad theology equals false conversions and has enabled evil to grow tremendously in this country. If Christians were more solid in their theology we wouldn't be struggling with social justice, critical theory, and other worldly things as much.
4. You seem to want to compartmentalize the preaching of the Word and our understanding of it for some reason. They are synergistic, though.
4. The truths of God's Word is always relevant.
Well predestination is important because it’s involved in how God saves. It also comes up a lot because people hate it so much
@@gabrielkinzel3389 I have no problem with it. God is sovereign and I have a free will, no one can reconcile their synergy. So, get people saved.
Ok
Kent Fink that's not God enough for Calvinists. Let your child tell one of them He loves Jesus and get rebuked and confused by them for "taking credit" and threatening God's Glory somehow and suck all of the Joy out of loving The Lord.
The other guy says it gets a lot of hate. Yeah. It does.
and notice how they equate Biblical Predestination with Calvinist doctrine itself so if you come against it they claim you are coming against scripture.
It's fruits are plain to see.
@22:18
Spoken like a true cult leader
Wow @kelvyquayo haven’t heard you be this venomous before. I thought you weren’t even an Open Theist?
@@pateunuchity884 He in not merely talking about Open Theism there.. You are right though. It is not a good comment to make and I regret it and nearly deleted it... but decided not to after listening again. It still seems like he’s saying if you aren’t following Calvinistic doctrines in general you will leave the faith.
@@kelvyquayo
Well, that’s not what I hear him saying.
He is a Calvinist teaching Calvinism.
Leighton Flowers and Warren McGrew could both learn a lot here. They don’t understand Calvinism and then turn around and teach others a strawman. #notcool
@@pateunuchity884 Well... I'm didn't say he WAS a cult leader.. just speaking LIKE a cult leader. :p I mean it seems like a scare tactic to me.. I understand that he doesn't think he's wrong but that is what I see as one of the big issues with 'it'.. it does inevitably force people into certain positions that are untenable.
@@kelvyquayo
That’s what Open Theism and unkept Arminianism does.
Calvinism embraces the mystery within scripture through the revelation of truth.
There will always be mystery because our God is infinite. We need not pretend the mystery lies in our freewill actions before an all knowing God.
To make it clearer, the Father used Judas and Pilate to accomplish his purpose, however if they had no choice but to do what they did then only an unjust God would throw them in the Lake of Fire.
@NicoCoco It says that God makes tools for his purpose. That doesn't that mean Pharaoh didn't have a choice, it means that he didn't have a chance. That happens all the time on this big ball of dirt. Again, by your interpretation, there can be no Judgement.
@@chuckcanuck3445 wrote: "That doesn't that mean Pharaoh didn't have a choice, it means that he didn't have a chance."
However, the Scriptures say otherwise:
“For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.”” (Romans 9:17. Also see Exodus 9:19)
@@electronicMI I also said that God uses men as tools, be it for good or evil.
@@electronicMI Paul wax raised up as a tool of the Trinity. He wasn't a robot and neither was Pharaoh, To say that mankind doesn't have free will is, quite frankly, nonsense.
@@electronicMI Simon Peter displayed free will numerous times.
This is absurd. You are the one saying God can't know unless He causes.
and Open Theism is wrong too.
@@kelvyquayo Saying God knows BECAUSE He is first mover. It’s saying “He cannot know unless He causes”. Why are you arguing from ignorance? The Bible clearly states God is eternal and we have a beginning.
@@pateunuchity884 I’m not sure what you’re getting at. I think God’s very nature entails that He knows all things regardless of cause.
lol! εἰμί = eimi = I am = -----> he -----> the son of GOD, the Messiah -----> verse 20 -----> Truly, truly, I tell you, whoever receives the one I send receives Me, and whoever receives Me receives the One who sent Me. Which proves James White doesn't know what he is talking about.
What are you talking about? James was referring to John 13:19, which is Jesus using the phrase, ὅτι ἐγώ εἰμι, which is applying the divine title of Yahweh in the OT to Himself. “He” in the translation is not apart of the original text. It simply says, “I am.” In verse 20, it in no way undermines what James said concerning verse 19. It is merely Jesus inferring His words in John 14, which reads, “But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you.”
@@johnmyers3450 --- lol! The problem with your theory is that isn't what the word means. You claiming it is inferring something else is eisegesis.
@@johnmyers3450 --- YOU >>> "It is merely Jesus inferring His words in John 14, which reads, “But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you.”
ME >>> Right! That is exactly what I said.
Yup, here’s another Grade A #Provisionist Open Theist. Long term supporter of Leighton Flowers here. Smh
@@pateunuchity884