Old School vs. Modern Cycling Group Ride Methods
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- Опубликовано: 1 авг 2024
- Did we do it better in the past? In this video, I take a look at the differences between modern group ride methods and the way we did it in years gone by.
What are the differences and are rides better today.
#grouprides #cycling #oldschool
00:00 Introduction
02:37 Saving Energy
03:25 Warm Up
08:30 Positioning in the Group
10:35 Paceline Rotations
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In my area there's basically 2 group ride options: Old dudes that casually ride 45 minutes to a coffee shop @ 17mph, and young dudes that want to race 60 miles full gas at 25mph 😂
17 mph is pretty good. That’s a nice pace
17mph Average Pace 25 Miles + is a Good Workout, Especially if you have inclines/Hills or wind on your route.
If you can maintain 17mph over 50 Miles you have a good Fitness level, and should think about entering some competitions, you would enjoy it.
I haven't ridden in a group yet, but I watch your videos to help me learn about how to ride in a group. Thanks for the great content, Luis!
Me too. I am kinda scared to make a mistake or not be able to keep up at all.
This has to be one of the best cycling channels out there. Another great video with awesome advice! Love watching the channel.
Thank you D in DC👍🏾
My respect. I’m a Mountain View CA resident. I ONCE rode a bike 17 miles in Destin FL in July. It was worse than going up 2800’ in our western hills.
I like how the double pace line has different movement to accommodate the different strength levels. In other words, it’s not always the front two riders pulling off at the same time you have the left line rotating more actively while the right line has one guy pulling with out pulling off. The guy on the right gets his workout, and everybody on the left line is getting their workout too, the group maintains the pace and there’s no stress or frustration. This sets a really good vibe.
I like your thoughts on warm ups. The groups I ride with don’t. In fact, one of them starts way to hard then dies on the climbs later. They have it backwards compared to how I approach the same route.
Thanks for sharing that Tony👍🏾
My thing for warming up is, everyone has the ability to show up to the ride warmed up. Just because the group doesn't do one doesn't mean you can't leave an extra 20 mins early to get your warmup in.
6:39 if you know the cyclist in front of you. She needs to lower her saddle a bit. She has a bit of hip rocking, usually this happens to compensate for over extension on the pedal stroke.
Yep. Thanks for your insight👍🏾
@@thegoodwheel just don’t want to people to get hurt.
Maybe teach to ride the rollers too while you're giving advice.... old school way. Could do with better balance.
Yeah, I thought the same thing!
@@AMehta-ok5pfsame
Great video. The bit about groups that are too focused on what their average speed is going to be on Strava and fail to do a proper warmup hits home because the same happens here in SA. I'd really love to see a video just focused on Martin's Tommasini and the process he went through to have it custom built, that would be awesome 😁
Yeah, that was a really sweet looking bike!
We ride from 5am here in Melbourne, and in weather from 0 to 10 degrees C during autumn and winter.
I have been riding road bikes since 2008. Until YESTERDAY I realized that what you said is true. It is about conservation of energy. I rode a power plan for the first time and WOW how much better I felt after the ride. I always tried to go 100%, then two days of recovery. Well yesterday I did 25 miles, today I am doing 30. See ya in a couple hours!!!
Started riding/racing as a junior when I was 14. Still at it aged 55, so I guess that makes me old school. My first mentor drilled into us - always warm up and cool down. Sprint on the drops. When racing, it’s always about who conserves, tactically forces others to expend energy so that when it counts, you can pedal the hardest. Nice videos. 😊
Thanks for sharing the info you do. Im starting fresh, havent cycled since '94. Boy o Boy did I pick a nice time to start cycling and take things to the next level. Looking forward to this endeavor. Officially reminded that we live in Florida. The heat came back strong. Warming up is something i cannot skip. I find it helps prevent unnecessary injuries that could be avoided. Looking forward to this lifestyle change. I also ordered a Ride1up gravel bike, needed something to help me get past that 30 mile limit I have because of a Health Condition (Neck seizes up bad).
Another great video! Being so close to south Florida I have to roadtrip to get there and this helps me decide which group I would join when I’m down there since I’ll only have the weekend to ride and don’t want to pick the wrong one and get lost 🤣
Educational - 90+F and humid. Moving over hot pavement for mile after mile. Florida people have a special toughness, I guess.
Hi Daniel. We will get tested this year for sure👍🏾
NAW, we do it all the time in DC
Beautiful to see been in the group rides with these guys but I’ve been off since November new bike day build is a week away at Alex bike shop,. Coming back soon much needed rest
I only rarely ride now days and just for fitness. I need to get back into it but my ride of choice is a cro-moly touring bike at about 32 lbs and I ride a lot of hills solo so if I can hit 12 mph average, I'm pretty happy. 😊
Good stuff, Luis! Thanks for sharing!
We used to have bakery rides out of the Bike Gallery in Portland Oregon once a month.
Bought my 1st carbon fiber bike from Aligator. I was so green, then met you guys on the Tuesday morning rides 😊
A great video as always, Luis! I have always been a lone wolf but since I have retired I am circling around the idea of trying some group rides. We will see…
Great video. Sound and voice very clear along with great visual and color. Thank you
I do not do ride groups anymore because they are too dangerous. In the late 80s and early 90s I would ride with Drew Miller, David Anthes and Doug Loveday. We'd have 40 people, but we stayed 2 abreast only. Get a flowing pace line and all was good.
Nice! Thanks for sharing👍🏾
Great video. Enjoyed watching
Great video, Luis
Good points man..I will say that economy of movement is often the key to making it from a club racer to an elite racer..it’s never really discussed
Thanks for watching 👍🏾
Nice ride and thanks for your thoughts! Would be great to see power numbers every now and then too but I’ll check your Strava estimates. Keep the videos coming
Excellent video!!!
Good advice for conservation of energy ❤❤ I don’t have experience with S-Works bikes
Yes indeed! Thanks for watching 🙏🏾
When I rode in atl we did a rotational pace line
Loved the ride thank you Luis some very expensive bikes way outside my pay grade forever keep safe and be blesses always Sir.
That you David! Yes... some nice bikes indeed👍🏾
Shout out to my man on the Roubaix! Fantastic riding machine that you don’t see enough of!
👍🏾
I like your presentation. Learned a lot from your videos. Come to SoCal. Will get you guys climbing some hills.
Thanks for the invite. It is definitely on the list👍🏾
Great content as always sir.
I don’t know if warming up or not warming up in the first part of the ride is a question of old-school or new school, I think it’s just more about finding a group whose objectives are the same as yours. In my younger days if the group was hot, coming out of the gate,I had the ability and capacity to just sit on the wheel until the spit and vinegar was out of their system. Nowadays, I’m a little more fussy about finding a group who objectives match my own.
I find the dynamic of your double pace lines interesting. I was raised on three different modes; double pace, line where the Windward side was advancing, and the Leeward side was the relief line, double pace lines where both lines advanced and riders took relief with their partner in the adjacent line, and single pace line. What this group does is a little different from anything I’ve been involved in, not right or wrong, just a different way of doing things. It seems to work quite well, as apparently the group holds together at a staunch speed for a fair distance.
We just had our first 90° day up here in Louisville, so summer definitely has arrived.
Good insight Kenneth! Thanks for sharing👍🏾
Nice video, Now I am old school myself and warm up slow but now lets get into the statements made about the Bianchi XR4 since I ride one with Campy super record the bike does everything I ask it to do it's very quick in all aspects jumps cornering descending and it doesn't beat me up even on my birthday ride in the heat of August in PA. which is 127 miles 10,640 feet of climbing and I'm not talking 5-6% for all of them a lot of punchy stuff up to 22% and no I'm not a spring chicken 61yrs old and started racing back in the late 70's so I've ridden a lot of bikes as a pro rider but we all don't ride the same so they may not work as well for everyone I still love riding my steel frames with tubes as well. when your happy with the bike under you that's what matters.
I currently ride a Bianchi Oltre XR4 with CV and a Pinarello Dogma F10. The Bianchi CV works, it is smooth. (CV=Countervail, a carbon fiber vibration damping technology). The Oltre XR4 is light, aero and smooth. The Pinarello is snappier, faster and more fun, but not so smooth. The Pinarello is not uncomfortable. The Bianchi is comfortable. Which do I prefer? well it all depends....Ha, Ha.....
Keep up the good work. I enjoy your channel. Tailwinds to ya, Carl NKC
I would love to see you ask riders their real opinions on their bikes. Also ask, what would they do differently if they were able to do it over again?
I'll be a bit contrarian here- had SL7 and Bianchi XR3, not quite the same, but decided to ditch carbon for good. Got a Moots RCS road bike, classic geometry, a bit heavier, but sublime. Can keep up with all group rides around here in Illinois. Great video as usual.
Nice! Thanks for sharing👍🏾
Damn! 50 miles @ 25 miles pace is pretty fast. I live in Soflo.. Miami to be specific. I use to ride with Trek Miami. Awesome group of guys.
Great video/advice. I recently tested out both the S-Works Tarmac SL7 and SL8. The SL8 is advertised as 33% stiffer than its predecessor SL7. I could definitely feel the difference. I am primarily an endurance rider, and I typically pace in the 24-26 mph range for group rides of metric centuries or less in the flatlands of South FL. I tested the SL7 first and loved it. Sufficiently stiff in handling and cornering, but compliant enough for comfort on endurance rides. I subsequently tested the SL8. I found the extra stiffness of the SL8 not to my liking. Great in a sprint, but too stiff for my taste on an endurance ride. That’s just my perspective. My personal take away: Don’t assume that just because you like one, you will like the other. They are both outstanding bikes, and it will come down to what feels right for your type of ride and physique.
That is awesome insight Geoffrey! Thanks for sharing 👍🏾
Funnily enough the simple tip about warming up is the biggest for me. I do group rides on mtb and paved and we just jump into it.
Disciplined ride compared to the club rides I rode back in the 80s and 90s. They were real hammerfests with riders attacking all the time.
Nice film. In this film you can see the discipline of the cyclists in maintaining pace, distance and proximity. Often your films show people going all over the place - it's kinda alarming! Perhaps it shows how riding with people you trust and have experience results in a calmer and faster ride!
I also note the quality of the roads - we dream of those smooth black surfaces in Sydney!
Of course the rider on the S-Works SL8 must have paid about $15,000 for her bike. Not many can afford these prices today. The sport has gotten way out of hand in terms of cost for bikes and parts.
Nice warm up regime. I need about 10 miles zone 1 and 2 to get properly warmed up. Else my leg would be cooked prematurely...😂
used to do St. Cloud to Melborne... miss those day... some day I'll be back to Florida. PA has way too many hills.... come over and let's hit what they call here in Roxborough - The WALL...
Here on the South West coast of Florida we have an incredible mix of young, middle aged and retired cyclists. Our group rides are usually 20-22mph for anywhere from 35-65miles. We are all retired and have been cyclists, triathletes etc. all our lives. It’s a cyclists dream. Additionally our bike club has 1-2 group rides seven days a week, yes seven days a week. I’m not saying what town this is because we have enough people flocking here already 😜
Sounds awesome. Thanks for sharing👍🏾
Wonderful ride,what’s the location were it start, maybe one day I’ll go there and do it with you all, it’s a long ride Friday Miami now in this days. (What average speed the goes) thank you nice ride.
I think the biggest mistake I made when I first started riding in a group is riding too fast at the beginning. Sometimes you have to really deliberately keep the pace cool, because people are just too eager (and naive) to warm up. My advice is to not go past 7/10 in perceived effort until you are completely relaxed or have done 50% of the ride.
Which jersey are you wearing in this video? I’m digging it.
7:17 that tommasini xfire with super record and wto ultra wheels...damn!!!!! Thats top cash in the $12-13,000 range.
Somewhere in that neighborhood sure!
Cool Pactimo jersey
Love it!
Awesome information! 🙏🏽
This is why we get along so well. What is your homemade electrolytes drink made up of?
Hola Mari!
Water with organic date syrup and a punch of that pink salt. I am also supposed to put a bit of lemon in it but always forget😉
Thank you for another great video!
Where did the person @13:35 get their Haitian jersey? Looking to get one for myself
Thanks for watching. I am not sure about the jersey's source.
Next time I will do a group ride / race on the track, the first time since 30 years 😳
I wouldn't worry about not pre-loading with electrolytes. It's unlikely that there is any measurable benefit. Much better to eat a good meal and be sufficiently hydrated prior to your ride. On particularly hot & long rides, critical to stay well hydrated. From your description, two 24oz (?) bottles doesn't seem like enough.
Luis, so you have about a month before you and your team leave for the Tour De France...hehehehe...I was someone made for cycling because of my childhood I endured pain, suffering, and my will was undeniable. I do not mind suffering on the bike and easily rode 100 mile tours without even training beforehand. I had some serious injuries, and left my Batavus steel bike for the mountain bikes, and the whole world opened. I found my thrills in the woods and invested more training/money into it. When I did group rides and tours, I made sure I was near the front because I did not want to be next to squirrely riders nor crashes. Besides, I see some of these races where people push and shove, and I am not built to allow people to abuse me. I was taught to hold my line and that's exactly what I expect/demand. I know I am built differently and do facts not feelings, and the people I rode with were in the same mindset.In fact, one of the guys I shared the front with a lot carried that 15 shot thang in case someone wanted to steal bikes or be disrespectful. Once my son was older I sold my bike to make sure he excelled in school//life. I still skate though and did it professionally,and yes, the warmups and taking care of myself in the past is the reason I still skate today. I want to start riding soon again, and I probably will get something aggressive and aluminum.
I remember one group ride where we busted 100 miles in 4 hours. Way fun when you find the right group.
👍🏾
Rim brake heaven in Florida but I need my hills...cause ya go fast without peddaling...
Yep. We love it. Thanks for watching 👍🏾
I gotta have my warm up. Takes me at least 10 miles. If I try and go all out with no warm up, I would get dropped before 20 miles.
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Damn! 50 miles @ 25 miles pace is pretty fast. I live in Soflo.. Miami to be specific. I use to ride with Trek Miami. We ride fr the falls south down to homestead. Or, north over to Biscayne Awesome group of guys. Where’s your accent fr brother?
I just got an old Raleigh five hundred. Could it hang with a group?
By South Florida, where might this area be ? I have a Former NYC CRCA Teammate from the '60's in Boca Raton and have ridden with him in that area and slightly further south than that too and also in the Lake Worth Area and also in Palm Beach Area.
I am from the Central New York State Area, so not from or living in Florida, but would like to ride with this group possibly if it is near to those areas I mentioned.
Love this Video on Old School vs Modern cycling Group Methods ! Looking forward to other Videos ! Feel free to PM me if you want, Luis !
We are riding through Pembroke Pines and Weston. Great areas to ride.
A note to new people watching this- a paceline rotation direction completely depends on the direction of the wind (if youre doing it correctly).
The idea is to rotate into the wind- this means that the 'fast' side of the rotation should be shielded from the wind. This keeps the pace higher and makes it safer.
If the ride you are on doesnt do this, they are not experienced cyclists.
Thanks for sharing, Jason. You are correct.
I find that even with experienced riders, that method is not always practical or safe on the open road with traffic.
When I teach, I have riders practice coming off on both sides and we explain why👍🏾
Man thats hot! Move to the UK. lol Some nice speeds as well. Steel is real! Martins bike is very nice! I no longer eat before or during a ride. I no longer Bonk either. I burn fat instead. It took a while to get use to using fat as fuel, but my performance is not around the same!
I just start at the back in a group ride 😂 If they want to play silly buggers at the front they can.
So many people with poor bike fits... business opportunity there ;-)
Yh I noticed the stretched legs too
Does Alligator do a slower ride? They look like a good size. Ride84 is too crazy. The GVO/SeaCycle season is ending this weekend at the W in Ft Laudy if you want to swing by to spin on their terrace. I'll try to get back on the roads the weekend after.
Hey Mark! Prior to Covid they had an A and B group. Since the ride restarted this year, it is only this pace. Let me know when you head back to the park.
BTW, I've never heard a rider that's laid down a fortune on a new bike say that they wasted their money and that their old bike was simply way better 😉🙃
I've ridden quite a few bikes. I got a deal (but still spent a lot) on an OPEN gravel bike. The thing was a brick. It was light but the most lifelesss frame I've ever ridden on gravel or road. "I wasted my money." Sold it after a few months and bought a Giant TCX which is a great bike. I have an S Works SL8. It is all the hype. Aero, snappy up hills, and very comfy all at the same time.
Does riding in a group help achieve higher speeds one couldn’t do individually? I am pretty slow at 16.5 mph sustained over 30 miles or so. What speed of group should I look for?
Hi Lindsey. If you are drafting properly, then yes. Riding in a group will allow you to save 25 to 40 percent of your energy as you match the pace of the group.
16.5 solo is not slow! But you should be able to ride in a group sustaining 20ish mph.
I watch a lot of cycling videos and did enjoy yours for the perspective and some of the hints. What surprise me is two bottles of water for 50 miles in really hot weather and humid must be tough. Surprise none of you are wearing those 24 or 6 L Uswe packs but maybe it’s just too hard on your back?
I’m in California, so we focus a lot more on the wonderful hills and mountains, and to find 50 miles of flatlands like you guys have would force us to go into the valley which is hot as hell, but dry. No, thanks!
Thanks for watching. The two bottles are usually enough for this ride... if not, I would stop to replenish 👍🏾
How long do you typically need to train just to be able to even ride in a group? I started a few months ago and I am enjoying it quite a bit, but while I am going quite a few miles at a time (25-40) I only average like 13.8 mph. I’m also riding a hybrid bike so maybe that has something to do with it.
I think you can find groups of varying abilities speed-wise. I know a friend and I found a group ride online that we thought would be fun, but reading the fine print, the groups page indicated that you need to be able to ride x mph (I can't recall what it was, but it was too fast for us). We went to a ride in west Georgia a month ago and were invited to join a group that said they have something for all levels of rider so if I were you, maybe just message the group and see what they say! Good luck to you!
In my area, there is no point showing up to any club ride unless you are riding an unrestricted Turbo Creo or equivalent unrestricted e-road bike with a range extender battery. That’s what nearly everyone in my community has switched to.
Some of them because they actually need the assistance, and some because they were never in their life able to put the hurt on anyone before and the added electric assist allows them to push the speed of the group in ways that they used to only dream of, and some have just given in and gotten the same gear to avoid being dropped by that second bunch of folks. I’d feel like a doper if I did that.
It’s frustrating to me, because I just want to keep riding my same old regular (non-electric) road bike. I’m turning 60-years old and becoming slower because of my age, but I’m not a Parkinson’s patient either, so I don’t want an ebike.
I miss the old school “pure” group rides like yours.
I read the heat index in SFla is now 44C. That terrifies me. Time to take it indoors.
I’m amazed that the group takes over the entire lane and cars do not run you off the road. Also, I’ve never encountered such flat roads. It doesn’t surprise me that you can cruise at 23 mph. I wonder if I could adjust to riding on two and three lane divided highways.
Thanks for watching John👍🏾
What song 9:39 ?
How often do you do a 50mi ride? :-)
Come ride and film Weston Velo. We define the rotation ride.
Hey Andy! Thanks for the invite. I would love to join. Please tell me your ride details and I will plan to come out👍🏾
Amazing when I see flat land cyclist not running 50mm minimum aero wheels. Soo many people in this video on low profile wheels just giving away watts.
Gotta talk to em and tell them to get aero and conserve energy bc you're 100% right. Big groups are all about conserving energy
Some of us don’t have a grand laying around to burn
i was telling my fellow cyclist the same thing
Thanks for watching 👍🏾
What I notice is that very few if any of these cyclists could ride rollers. They cannot ride a line and drift 15" side to side. Super dangerous
You have a lot of choices where you ride bikes in S. Florida, but they’re ALL flat!😂
Is it legal for cyclists to take up the whole lane in Florida?
aero benefit from people behind you?
Why are they not in the bike lane?
Why not in the bike lane?
I hate when I’m with a group and they go too fast, too soon. I think it’s an ego thing. It happens more often than not.
Thanks for sharing 👍🏾
Why would you go on a bike ride when you got lechona next door?
Mannnn NONE of these dudes want to warm up anymore lol. Literally just 20+ out the gate 😂😂😂 it kills me
your friend Scott needs a bike fit. He's either got hip or leg issues
50 miles??? lol. i love cycling but can't understand how anyone can sit on a saddle for so long. especially all flat ground 🥱
So those girls are like .Rock stars.lol.. fast group ride, and you girl friends are part of the bunch...
And I see you have adequate( for the warm climate ) outfit.. cool man. We do have 3 club kit variation incl the model you have on
Cool man
Aldrin, it is amazing how well that jersey works. I've got three of them. Yes, Adrienne and Sheree are very capable cyclist👍🏾
Baby you riding with no hands 😮lol
Si Babe, pero no te preocupes. Solo fue por un ratito❤️
A couple of folks with some very fat tires!
Your friend Sherrie is a mess on the bike, she’s a pedal smasher instead of push pull and her saddle is to high. Her hips are rocking way too much.
Luis loves group rides so much, IMO he avoids telling beginners the things they must do to avoid being written off as a no-hoper. A wheel sucker is a rider who gets on the wheel of the rider ahead and copies his every move in order to avoid being burdened with riding into a headwind. Lamprey eels have nothing on wheel suckers in the parasite category. To avoid this unsavory reputation, before you head out, become aware of the rider level among the group. Avoid groups whose riders are significantly faster than you, because if you lack the strength and the ability to “ghost ride” as Luis does here, you will resort to riskier tactics to stay with the front riders.
Possibly the the biggest cycling no-no is sticking so closely to rider ahead that your front wheel overlaps his or her rear wheel. The danger here is that if the rider ahead needs to alter their direction quickly, there will be tire-on-tire contact, which usually results in a crash.
A big change in velocity exhibited by a front-runner invariably results in panic and chaos behind as the following riders desperately try to find a clear space. The result can get ugly. The blame will be entirely yours and everyone will know it.
Most long-established group rides do not allow newbies to ride with them, due to the increased hazard. If your training has made you strong enough to avoid being dropped by the group, accept this as an opportunity, NOT as the occasion to impress everybody with your risk taking and devil-may-care attitude. If you maintain a positive attitude and pull off your brief turns at the front, then fall back modestly as described here by Luis, the elites in the group will be quietly impressed and you will be welcome on subsequent rides.
A final caution: When riding mid-group, tightly packed among other riders, do not under any circumstances apply your brakes or make some other unexpected change of velocity. On a group ride three years ago I was well back of the bunch when a newb near the front dropped his water bottle then slammed on his brakes to retrieve it, causing a big pile up. This guy’s daydreaming caused injury (not serious) to other riders and damage to their bikes.
Group riding is an entirely different kind of riding, hugely rewarding in itself and a great way to attain good cycling form. The group that gives you permission to ride with them is worthy of your respect and deference. The best way to earn fellow riders’ respect is to avoid showboating and by following the rules of group riding. Avoid small talk but display a friendly attitude. Behave with modesty and by being smooth and steady on a consistent basis, you will find yourself in serious danger of making new friends.
TT biked ???? You folks are always on the flat, why not go full aero ???
Because they aren't triathletes and also in a bunch TT bars are asking for trouble.
Are you in a bike lane? Are you blocking traffic?
Wow dude! Please make the stop at the stop signs. No wonder drivers don’t like us. After 19+ years still people don’t respect signs, road rules!
Too many bikedrivers.
So disappointed Luis you've joined 'the chain gang'. You of all people should appreciate that far too many brutal injustices occur against black people in your country, framed for things they didn't do or didn't even happen. Your channel is full of great prime content, and I wish you continued success with it. But my friend, don't gaslight. I've been well primed on this BS over a very long time. So long rider!