Those videos are very time consuming to do and views fell off super hard the last couple of weeks, so they were hard to justify when there was very little interest. Moved to a live-stream format for the time being: ruclips.net/user/liveYTp_jW4I5yk?si=O21PaPn_y8y1tm48
Ogryns are 130 for 6. Madude they are beyond ridicoulus. Got list planned "Fallout Supermutant Holocaust". Stormlord buffed by Maj.Hoarsie to bs3, sv 1+, with 12 fatties windowshooting with 72+35 shots flat2, 4 lasc, ignore cover&ap2-3 B.I.G style. If they stay at the points i may buy it. Its more of a fun list without any guard infantry bc it just sux unfortunately (for example vs orks, chaos, sisters AND FUKIN NECRONS)
@@wojciechprzewozniak597 ogryn sound really cheap DW knights are 235 for 5 sure they are tanky as fuck but mortal wounds still are consistent counter. Walking away from them works also. Easy targets to dump shots into. Dark Angels have two things going for them DWK and Azreal and nerfing those two without giving them anything else brought up is aids and bad balancing
@@johnj.spurgin7037 GW likes to reuse words… it is like they have a word-a-day calendar they reference… The Knight Abominant is the psychic one with power-tendrils for its melee arm. But yeah, it is also a GSC unit.
This idea is dangerously close to my true feelings. Which means it will never happen and you'll likely have bad things happen to you for even saying it
What Chaos Knights need is for the three new wardogs to lose Battleline. If you couldn't fill an entire list with Karnivores and Brigands, the other datasheets would have a chance.
I think a game wide rule where spamming units gets progressively more expensive would work. So take 1 unit of X at its face value price, take a second and pay a +10 points tax, take a 3rd and its +20. Make battleline exempt and I think this logic helps to stop everyone doubling (or tripling) down on overly powerful datasheets
I think the fact that some units get a sergeant model with extra options probably SHOULD be slightly taxed and that would be a way to disincentivize MSU spam maybe?
windmill slamming 3 wardens into a list is literally where i start lmao, but absolutely id love to include both venatari and allarus vs one or the other and i hate that most list building feels like choosing between the two
It woild be cool if GW choose that path for Codex Space Marines and the currently stronger "DLC" codex supplements. As is it's making a mockery of SM chapters and SM players.
I know that sisters are gonna get the hammer next points change. I’m expecting atleast the castigator, immolator, dominions, maybe vahl to go up in points but defenitely the triumph, by like atleast 70-100 points (still gonna take her every time) But I am hoping that sacresaints zephyrim and repentia go down a teeny bit
Giving space marines a split cost for non compliant chapters or just making normal space marine characters super cheap I think just feels bad. gameplay wise and headcannon wise like "these two characters are the same power but this one is just cheaper" I think the real issue is non compliant chapters having access to normal space marine detachments. GW should just make the non compliant chapters have good enough detachments that synchronize well with their own armies so that they don't need to use normal space marine detachments .
TWC dont really need a crazy point hike or nerf. Something needs to be done about stormlance though. TWC feel pretty balanced in CoR, but insanely enabled by Stormlance. Nerf the detachment, not the units
Stormlance is hurting the Space Wolves and their Champions of Russ. It’s giving Space Wolves a false win rate. They need to specify the win rate of Champions of Russ.
@@MrNurse44 they do break it down on that stat check site. SW in Stormlance is at 67% win rate. Alternately, Champions of Russ is still on the high end of the middle at 54%, but that still warrants a “no touchy” based on the standards outlined by multiple people from GW and YT. I just also look at Dark Angels in Stormlance, and DA in that detachment have a 63% win rate, which tells me it’s a detachment that possibly enables mounted just a biiiit too much lol. Buff Outriders/Invader ATVs for codex marines, but nerf nerf nerf Stormlance. Stormlance has been overtuned to enable the underwhelming unit that are outrider squads, and the divergents are reaping the benefits
If they nerf stormlance then all non space wolf players get dunked even more. It's a terrible detatchment held up by fantastic models from space wolves. It's literally useless without them.
Hi there, I play Sisters and I do agree with everything you said about increasing points for those units. I only play casual and crusade, so you have tried many more options since in competitive you go for the best. However, What I have realised is that Bringers of Flames is the most well balanced in terms of Stratagems and Enhacements. I love hallowed Martyrs, but It is so melee orientated that makes me think It twice as I prefer shooting or 50/50. In fact, some of the Stratagems do not work well, such as praise the fallen or sanctified immolation. Sisters die so easily that is difficult to make Praise the fallen worth, for instance. In previous editions as you could have 20 Battle sisters in a unit, that Stratagem was much better, in my opinion. Hopefully, GW only change point-wise as I find datasheet quite well. Thnx, Iñaki from Bilbao.
Sister need to be nerfed but I'm afraid they do as for the ork... One detachment is to strong but the others ok or never use. On the increase were I'm not sur: - Increase seraphims ok but for T3 and 1 wound model there are already more expensives than jump pack intercessors... - Increase castigator ok, but they are already more expensives than SM/SMC Predator (because of an extra heavy bolter). And SM/SMC have also more ranged support units so you don't se only one unit...So the question is why do you see always the same units : to strong or only option available. - immolator are good because can split sister but they are like razorback , so nerfing dominion will nerf immolator maybe? On the other side for sure: Need an increase of St kath, Val, fire and fury enhancement in bringer of flame, dominions
Just make it so if you want to play a non compliment chapter then you have to play their unique chapters. Would make it so much easier to balance EVERYTHING
I disagree on the move , for all it'd be easier to balance. I'd rather incentivize true vanilla marines with a rule for SM that they only get if they bring NO chapter specific units or characters. That doesn't fix the issue of iron hands, white scars, etc... but that really needs more characters like ultramarines.
46% win rate according to auspex tactics, 42% win rate according to den of fools, with a relatively high player count. Derek from 40k Dirtbags achieved a lot of his success based off of two datasheets (AC/DC) and is the #1 ranked CSM player in the world, and a lot of people have since copied his list. And now the London GT was won by Liam VSL, one of the best players in the world. They're a faction that can play very well at the highest levels, not a faction that is inherently overpowered, which is what I would call 'incredible'. Aeldari at the start of 10th were incredible, not CSM in its current state.
@@bensemusx i dont want more shots. Dreadmob is already backbreaking with the number of dice. I want stronger guns with more ap and more dmg. a big shoota is only S5 with no ap dmg 1. Sad.
35:50 psyket keyword definitely needs to do something. like... why is GK ven dread psyker? no psychic attack, no psychic ability, nothing. just pure downgrade and custodes sisters pwn his butt while not taking any damage bcs of FNP
I get Space wolves need a nerf but TWC with characters, bjorn and sometimes wolfen are litteraly the only then that they have. They need to go up somewhat, but not 200pts+ for current lists. The comparison to Belial was kinda strange, as you can find much worse SW characters than Belial, but he was compared to the best. All of their first born units (witch they have a lot of), are litteraly useless.
For fixing spacemarines I think codexes has to be split, core book and DA aside, BA aside, SW aside etc etc. It's not possible to balance something that has 9 ways to play you buff something in core sm book - boom DA free buff, op now...ok, reverse that, buff something else? Boom SW free buff, op now... Not doable imo
It's too late to fix it this edition unfortunately, and the simple act is that the divergent chapters do use most/all of the SM codex's units, so it'd be a ton of photocopied unit datasheets and SOME detachments. My preferred solution is to give non-chapter builds of SM a rule you only get with no chapter units, be that ultramarines characters or divergent chapter units, and I like the idea of a chance to get more CP that ignores the per-battleround CP cap when you pop strats.
At this point I don’t believe anything GW is willing to do will help compliant space marines this edition. I’m just going to play my other army and make my marines look really pretty for the shelf until 11th rolls around. And the worst part is I know exactly how they could at least help with the problem. Treat the divergent chapters how they treat the 3 (soon to be 4) chaos god legions. Give them their own version of certain units and they can’t use the SM codex detachments. Fucking easy. But GW hasn’t done that yet for some reason so I have no reason to believe they ever will.
For going first, I don’t know why it’s not like it was in WHFB back when. There, the person who won the dice roll got to *choose* if they went first or not. If their army wanted to be going second, winning the dice roll let them pick that. Seems like giving the player the choice adds at least a small amount of player skill influence instead of being purely random.
I bet bulk of the power of sisters is the Triumph. I don't think the other Bringers of Flame staples need to get nerfed considering they're also used in other detachments. Sisters roster is too small to just hand out wise ranging nerfs like that.
I am not sure points are the right fix for Sororitas. Bringers of Flame is just Flamestorm +1. As you said, too many points adjustments will drag the whole book down - and while Trevvy said he feels that is needed, in general, I really don’t know that the whole book needs to be punished for a detachment being *built different*.
Ehhh, meganobs definitely didn't need the double whammy, but they WERE kinda OP with two turns of a 4+++ at 30 PPM. With the FNP nerfed to 5+ I can see them going down again.
I can't explain how mad it makes me that im already seeing articles talking about 11th edition For gods sake, we legit barely started 10th at this point. Not even half the codexes are out. If 11th comes out within the next 2 years i might quit for awhile again. Its so exhausting
It is unlikely that 11th wipes the slate clean, again, it will just be core rules adjustments, with the existing codices carrying into the 11th cycle. With a few exceptions, the edition has always cycled every 3-4 years, it was just jarring when 10th was a clean slate right after 8th was the same. They hadn’t invalidated codices and started from scratch since 3rd, previous to 8th.
@buttemountain yea this is pretty much the plan. I doubt I'll quit. More realistically, I'll just quit playing anywhere other than at my own house with my 2 friends that play 40k lol. I suspect they won't want to switch to 11th either and we'll just ignore it So it would result in me playing 10x less.
Need more than easily screened 9" DS for them to be priced as high as they are. Theyre phobos AND DS so can DS redeploy/uppy-downy and 2 squads can do it at a time in Vanguard and theyve never even been playtested at their price. Ive run them in for fun in SoS since they have so many attacks but theyve hard underperformed for their points every time, even just as mission-doers with scouts at 65
@@bensemusx maybe. I see your point. nonetheless some units are rightfully pointed as msu and become overpowered when taken 3 times on full unit. maybe limit the number of big units so?
I dream about separate codex for Ultramarines, we deserve for our own codex and fuck chapters like Iron hands, white scars, raven guard and others. Nobody play them
I could see a "First Founding" supplement that gives you unique units and characters for the various chapters, but IDK if the ultramarines would have any unique detachments? This would also compartmentalize true vanilla SM, and they could give them a rule you only get if you don't bring any chapter-specific units in your army.
I agree that psychic as a keyword feels like a pure nerf. It's a problem.
Where has "best armies in 40k gone trevvy"? I looked forward to that video every week and you haven't done it for about a month. Bring it back!! 🤙
Those videos are very time consuming to do and views fell off super hard the last couple of weeks, so they were hard to justify when there was very little interest. Moved to a live-stream format for the time being: ruclips.net/user/liveYTp_jW4I5yk?si=O21PaPn_y8y1tm48
Kind of felt like a lot of the analysis was any unit that's good in an army i don't play deserves a nerf.
I see Bullgryns and Deathwing Knights going up.
Bruh leave Deathwing Knights alone. There are so many other units that are way more of an issue 😅
@@Baddass5 Anytime Space Marines get out of the basement GW pushes them back down this edition. I don't want it but I expect it.
Ogryns are 130 for 6. Madude they are beyond ridicoulus. Got list planned "Fallout Supermutant Holocaust". Stormlord buffed by Maj.Hoarsie to bs3, sv 1+, with 12 fatties windowshooting with 72+35 shots flat2, 4 lasc, ignore cover&ap2-3 B.I.G style. If they stay at the points i may buy it. Its more of a fun list without any guard infantry bc it just sux unfortunately (for example vs orks, chaos, sisters AND FUKIN NECRONS)
@@wojciechprzewozniak597 ogryn sound really cheap DW knights are 235 for 5 sure they are tanky as fuck but mortal wounds still are consistent counter. Walking away from them works also. Easy targets to dump shots into. Dark Angels have two things going for them DWK and Azreal and nerfing those two without giving them anything else brought up is aids and bad balancing
Give all the chapter masters (Vulkan ect) +1CP in the command phase to match Azreal and Calgar, seeing as they don't even have rites of battle
Dante gets hyper broken on Liberator AG
@@francoabad4911Ya Dante giving a CP too would be way too much. Would need a large points increase.
It should be noted that Vulcan is not a chapter master
Puretide chip update?
CK need new faction rules.
CK Adjustment Needed: Make the Abominant viable. It is CK’s coolest model, and it has been trash since its release.
CK? I thought Abominants were a GSC unit?
@@johnj.spurgin7037 GW likes to reuse words… it is like they have a word-a-day calendar they reference…
The Knight Abominant is the psychic one with power-tendrils for its melee arm.
But yeah, it is also a GSC unit.
@@AnnaFianna ahhh my bad.
This idea is dangerously close to my true feelings. Which means it will never happen and you'll likely have bad things happen to you for even saying it
The fact that it's big gun is 0AP and no anti anything is the criminal part that's keeps it unplayable at even 375.
What Chaos Knights need is for the three new wardogs to lose Battleline. If you couldn't fill an entire list with Karnivores and Brigands, the other datasheets would have a chance.
I think a game wide rule where spamming units gets progressively more expensive would work. So take 1 unit of X at its face value price, take a second and pay a +10 points tax, take a 3rd and its +20. Make battleline exempt and I think this logic helps to stop everyone doubling (or tripling) down on overly powerful datasheets
I think the fact that some units get a sergeant model with extra options probably SHOULD be slightly taxed and that would be a way to disincentivize MSU spam maybe?
I'd love to be able to take Calgar without the Honor Guard for lower points as an option
windmill slamming 3 wardens into a list is literally where i start lmao, but absolutely id love to include both venatari and allarus vs one or the other and i hate that most list building feels like choosing between the two
I think terminators need twin linked on their storm bolters. That would fix everything.
chaos knights: nerf the melta dmg, improve melee
For one army that is struggling massively you want to take something away from them?
It woild be cool if GW choose that path for Codex Space Marines and the currently stronger "DLC" codex supplements. As is it's making a mockery of SM chapters and SM players.
I know that sisters are gonna get the hammer next points change. I’m expecting atleast the castigator, immolator, dominions, maybe vahl to go up in points but defenitely the triumph, by like atleast 70-100 points (still gonna take her every time) But I am hoping that sacresaints zephyrim and repentia go down a teeny bit
Giving space marines a split cost for non compliant chapters or just making normal space marine characters super cheap I think just feels bad. gameplay wise and headcannon wise like "these two characters are the same power but this one is just cheaper" I think the real issue is non compliant chapters having access to normal space marine detachments. GW should just make the non compliant chapters have good enough detachments that synchronize well with their own armies so that they don't need to use normal space marine detachments .
Hope kroot get some love to make em viable, the new models are great but you rarely see them played..
TWC dont really need a crazy point hike or nerf. Something needs to be done about stormlance though. TWC feel pretty balanced in CoR, but insanely enabled by Stormlance. Nerf the detachment, not the units
Stormlance is hurting the Space Wolves and their Champions of Russ. It’s giving Space Wolves a false win rate. They need to specify the win rate of Champions of Russ.
@@MrNurse44 they do break it down on that stat check site. SW in Stormlance is at 67% win rate. Alternately, Champions of Russ is still on the high end of the middle at 54%, but that still warrants a “no touchy” based on the standards outlined by multiple people from GW and YT.
I just also look at Dark Angels in Stormlance, and DA in that detachment have a 63% win rate, which tells me it’s a detachment that possibly enables mounted just a biiiit too much lol.
Buff Outriders/Invader ATVs for codex marines, but nerf nerf nerf Stormlance. Stormlance has been overtuned to enable the underwhelming unit that are outrider squads, and the divergents are reaping the benefits
If they nerf stormlance then all non space wolf players get dunked even more. It's a terrible detatchment held up by fantastic models from space wolves. It's literally useless without them.
Hi there, I play Sisters and I do agree with everything you said about increasing points for those units. I only play casual and crusade, so you have tried many more options since in competitive you go for the best. However, What I have realised is that Bringers of Flames is the most well balanced in terms of Stratagems and Enhacements. I love hallowed Martyrs, but It is so melee orientated that makes me think It twice as I prefer shooting or 50/50. In fact, some of the Stratagems do not work well, such as praise the fallen or sanctified immolation. Sisters die so easily that is difficult to make Praise the fallen worth, for instance. In previous editions as you could have 20 Battle sisters in a unit, that Stratagem was much better, in my opinion.
Hopefully, GW only change point-wise as I find datasheet quite well.
Thnx,
Iñaki from Bilbao.
Sister need to be nerfed but I'm afraid they do as for the ork...
One detachment is to strong but the others ok or never use.
On the increase were I'm not sur:
- Increase seraphims ok but for T3 and 1 wound model there are already more expensives than jump pack intercessors...
- Increase castigator ok, but they are already more expensives than SM/SMC Predator (because of an extra heavy bolter). And SM/SMC have also more ranged support units so you don't se only one unit...So the question is why do you see always the same units : to strong or only option available.
- immolator are good because can split sister but they are like razorback , so nerfing dominion will nerf immolator maybe?
On the other side for sure:
Need an increase of St kath, Val, fire and fury enhancement in bringer of flame, dominions
Just make it so if you want to play a non compliment chapter then you have to play their unique chapters. Would make it so much easier to balance EVERYTHING
I disagree on the move , for all it'd be easier to balance. I'd rather incentivize true vanilla marines with a rule for SM that they only get if they bring NO chapter specific units or characters. That doesn't fix the issue of iron hands, white scars, etc... but that really needs more characters like ultramarines.
1:08:19 CSM are in no way incredibly strong. What are you talking about?
I mean at high level play it’s one of the best
Recent GT results don’t support that “they are in no way incredibly strong.” CSM rocking ACDC have been performing very well.
They literally just won a 850 person tournament
46% win rate according to auspex tactics, 42% win rate according to den of fools, with a relatively high player count. Derek from 40k Dirtbags achieved a lot of his success based off of two datasheets (AC/DC) and is the #1 ranked CSM player in the world, and a lot of people have since copied his list. And now the London GT was won by Liam VSL, one of the best players in the world. They're a faction that can play very well at the highest levels, not a faction that is inherently overpowered, which is what I would call 'incredible'. Aeldari at the start of 10th were incredible, not CSM in its current state.
@@WontonDestruction win rates alone is a very poor indicator 😅
Great video as usual, particularly your thoughts on Terminators
Give ork bikers fights first as a special ability, the dust clouds and exhaust are so thick the charging enemy gets disoriented.
Would be interesting. I think all ork guns just need more shots. They are inaccurate and weak. Give them at least volume.
@@bensemusx i dont want more shots. Dreadmob is already backbreaking with the number of dice. I want stronger guns with more ap and more dmg. a big shoota is only S5 with no ap dmg 1. Sad.
35:50 psyket keyword definitely needs to do something. like... why is GK ven dread psyker? no psychic attack, no psychic ability, nothing. just pure downgrade and custodes sisters pwn his butt while not taking any damage bcs of FNP
separate points costs already existed, for example, forgefiend in csm vs thosand sons
I get Space wolves need a nerf but TWC with characters, bjorn and sometimes wolfen are litteraly the only then that they have. They need to go up somewhat, but not 200pts+ for current lists. The comparison to Belial was kinda strange, as you can find much worse SW characters than Belial, but he was compared to the best. All of their first born units (witch they have a lot of), are litteraly useless.
Can't wait for the 12th Aeldari nerf. 😢
Units that are not battleline should be taxed pointswise taken more than once. 1 unit? 100p, 2 units? 220p
That's a nerf to factions that have very few data sheets though. As a Votann player do I need to be taxed for running 3x5 Hearthguard?
No balance is coming until after Warhammer worlds.
At least make the acastus knights more useful in 40k
For fixing spacemarines I think codexes has to be split, core book and DA aside, BA aside, SW aside etc etc. It's not possible to balance something that has 9 ways to play you buff something in core sm book - boom DA free buff, op now...ok, reverse that, buff something else? Boom SW free buff, op now... Not doable imo
It's too late to fix it this edition unfortunately, and the simple act is that the divergent chapters do use most/all of the SM codex's units, so it'd be a ton of photocopied unit datasheets and SOME detachments.
My preferred solution is to give non-chapter builds of SM a rule you only get with no chapter units, be that ultramarines characters or divergent chapter units, and I like the idea of a chance to get more CP that ignores the per-battleround CP cap when you pop strats.
No talk about how they massacred csm? Rules and heavy points nerfs at the same time wtf
No CSM ? Whole army is over costed besides the cultist detachment.
do we know when the update drops?
At this point I don’t believe anything GW is willing to do will help compliant space marines this edition. I’m just going to play my other army and make my marines look really pretty for the shelf until 11th rolls around.
And the worst part is I know exactly how they could at least help with the problem. Treat the divergent chapters how they treat the 3 (soon to be 4) chaos god legions. Give them their own version of certain units and they can’t use the SM codex detachments. Fucking easy. But GW hasn’t done that yet for some reason so I have no reason to believe they ever will.
Make riptides ion gun stronger
Do we have any conformation on it actually being in october? The update I mean
Yeah they drop every 3 months, and the last one was in June
For going first, I don’t know why it’s not like it was in WHFB back when. There, the person who won the dice roll got to *choose* if they went first or not. If their army wanted to be going second, winning the dice roll let them pick that. Seems like giving the player the choice adds at least a small amount of player skill influence instead of being purely random.
Im surprised You didnt include a CSM "part" in the live what should be up/down from youre point of view ?
make reavers battleline and suddenly they are the greatest unit in the codex
Why would they be? They're still overcosted and have middling rules at best.
@@johnj.spurgin7037 deepstrike + battleshock @-1 + shoot&charge with lieutenant + OC2 + easy secret missions.
Not even close, they still wouldn't be picked. People don't even want one unit let alone 6
TWC die very fast, you cannot up their cost more. Just nerf Stormlance synergies.
I bet bulk of the power of sisters is the Triumph. I don't think the other Bringers of Flame staples need to get nerfed considering they're also used in other detachments. Sisters roster is too small to just hand out wise ranging nerfs like that.
I am not sure points are the right fix for Sororitas. Bringers of Flame is just Flamestorm +1. As you said, too many points adjustments will drag the whole book down - and while Trevvy said he feels that is needed, in general, I really don’t know that the whole book needs to be punished for a detachment being *built different*.
Also Sisters are generally a harder army to play. It will be very easy to knock them completely out of the top 45% if GW is not careful.
Sk33t
Reversing the nerfs to green tide, megatons and the pain boss would be great.
Ehhh, meganobs definitely didn't need the double whammy, but they WERE kinda OP with two turns of a 4+++ at 30 PPM. With the FNP nerfed to 5+ I can see them going down again.
Make gsc great again
I can't explain how mad it makes me that im already seeing articles talking about 11th edition
For gods sake, we legit barely started 10th at this point. Not even half the codexes are out. If 11th comes out within the next 2 years i might quit for awhile again. Its so exhausting
It is unlikely that 11th wipes the slate clean, again, it will just be core rules adjustments, with the existing codices carrying into the 11th cycle.
With a few exceptions, the edition has always cycled every 3-4 years, it was just jarring when 10th was a clean slate right after 8th was the same. They hadn’t invalidated codices and started from scratch since 3rd, previous to 8th.
I already decided I’m not moving to 11th unless it’s drastically better or more fun. But I stick to casual play
@@buttemountain I fully support that - have fun with your toys, for sure! I hope your next game is a blast!
@buttemountain yea this is pretty much the plan. I doubt I'll quit. More realistically, I'll just quit playing anywhere other than at my own house with my 2 friends that play 40k lol. I suspect they won't want to switch to 11th either and we'll just ignore it
So it would result in me playing 10x less.
First🎉
proud of u ;)
Rievers have DS. That's why they are so expensive.
Need more than easily screened 9" DS for them to be priced as high as they are. Theyre phobos AND DS so can DS redeploy/uppy-downy and 2 squads can do it at a time in Vanguard and theyve never even been playtested at their price.
Ive run them in for fun in SoS since they have so many attacks but theyve hard underperformed for their points every time, even just as mission-doers with scouts at 65
So do JPI lol
simple fix to 80% of the problems: if you increase the base unit model numbers, it costs you more than taking 2 separate msu
No that’s a terrible fix. MSU are taken because it’s more efficient. A larger squad should have a discount, not a tax.
@@bensemusx maybe. I see your point. nonetheless some units are rightfully pointed as msu and become overpowered when taken 3 times on full unit. maybe limit the number of big units so?
That would kill necrons outside vehicle spam
@@radekkolar1265 I see only positives ;p
Well they have done that with sisters 😂 so not sur it the right approach
And were you piddled trevv!?! Naughty boy 😂😂😂
idk what this means
I dream about separate codex for Ultramarines, we deserve for our own codex and fuck chapters like Iron hands, white scars, raven guard and others. Nobody play them
I could see a "First Founding" supplement that gives you unique units and characters for the various chapters, but IDK if the ultramarines would have any unique detachments?
This would also compartmentalize true vanilla SM, and they could give them a rule you only get if you don't bring any chapter-specific units in your army.