A good business owner caters to all facets of a gem. It's the approach that a successful company takes, as opposed to the big boys that simply cannot be bothered if you don't roll up to them waded in cash from top to bottom. And that's a negative on them, of those that succeed, you can bet your top dollar that they won't discuss with said company first, when they need the product. And the practice is pertinent to any field, not specifically machinery and machining.
John, I use Pierson qcp. I never cut actual pallet. I bolt on another alum pallet or steel to top. Set it up as needed. Then if I decide not to make part anymore or change it, or ruin pallet, just unbolt, bolt on another. I have machined about 8 base pallets and used his hardware kits to set them up.
John, I know our a fanatic for accuracy so make all your fixtures the same height. This way the thermal growth in z stays consistent across your various fixtures. Also male your risers out of iron if you can. Cast iron is way more stable than aluminium, that's what they build that whole machine from for a reason!
Excellent point on the Z heights and thermal expansion. Cast Iron is also very good at absorbing vibrations which definitely can't hurt either in the pursuit of the perfect surface finish.
When doing plastics I learned that the best way to deal with chip loading is to program in "micro dwells" to break the chips, combined with air blast this helps make the strings smaller and easier to blow away. Also, try hooking up air blast to the turret through the coolant lines, having air right on the tool to blow chips off boring bars really helps. I've even done crazy stuff like programming the turret to scrape chips off the tools manually with like a piece of plastic being held in place with a noga. All fairly tedious options but ones that worked for me if you are really dialing in your setups.
You could stick a strip of weather stripping around the edge of the pallet holder and prevent coolant and chips from getting in between the pallet holder and the pallet.
For your vac magic plate - you can use a vacuum pump with a small reservoir instead of the venturi vacuum. It saves your compressor from running all the time.
yep the brother needs a mounting plate under an orange vise for me to use my stubby threaded shank insert tools. about 1/2 short. makes sense since they really push that 4th axis function and it's usually using a drill or tap
Update was great! I wish your content was more regular though like John S. Or maybe convince John S to make knives with weekly product update videos..... There is just something about designing a product a product that makes watching your videos very enjoyable. I guess its easier to get vested when you know the end goal. Keep it up!
That pallet system is super sweet! I'd only be concerned that there is no visual indication that the air cylinder behind the balls is fully seated. I might modify it (if it does use a cylinder) to add a hall effect sensor (COTS) to the cylinder with a visual indication. Only takes one F!@k up to more than pay for that! Also if you like doing the foam in house, get a CO2 laser cutter. 1/4" foam can be cut by 80W easily and will keep your machine free to make stuff that brings in money. You can pick one up for $5-8k or double that for a USA made one. The only time I'd say milling foam is necessary is when you get into the really thick stuff >1". If you get into big volumes, you'll want to get a die cutter or have them die cut because then even a laser is too time consuming.
Rob F the way the pierson pallet works is similar to a trucks air brakes, where it is locked when theres no air pressure, and you use air pressure to release it. so the only issue that would happen would be the pallet being locked in place. pierson designed it as a failsafe incase theres a loss of vaccum or even a cut line.
Hi John if I were planning to use riser blocks under the vacuum plate and the pierson pallet I would look at rising them to the same level as the top of the plate on the orange vice that way you know that you can get all the tools to the right position and when you are setting up you can stay close to the job in z axis and move the machine anywhere over the bed without running in to anything else yes it is idiot proofing we all make that mistake from time to time all looks good
The foam being a dry process, perhaps you may have been better served with the larger Pearson pallet system. Then you could have just had another pallet for the foam, and use ALL of your bed to machine wet parts for productivity. Thoughts?
Love what you're doing around the shop, keep crushing it. It's great you are using the Pierson chart it's something in am going to start using as well.( can I buy some Grimsmo magnets? That would be awesome) also sorry for when Saunders gets on you for making your own lol.
I'm kinda surprised you didn't have the "process" written down, i always thought that it was an in house process and you just didn't show it. But yeah, that's a key element in workflow, in, its different forms, after all not all gloves fit just any hand. In the office of architecture, we have it laid on 4 meters of wall. Keeps us on line. Color coded per person, we have tags with the project. Each time a stage has been dealt with the person in charge advances their "peon". It's kind of like a in office game. Also, encourages friendly rivalry :)
Man, Pierson really goes out there for that finished product. I thought it was impressive before, but the close up @ 12:47ish that's really nicely made.
Once you have the foam down pat, try making a steel rule die - or clicker press die that can be run by employee on an arbour press - no consumed machine time.
That is freaking cool...Love the flowsheet on the wall and the work holding gave me a few ideas too :) Pity you go missing in action every now and then :(
Hey John can you please talk about what kind of foam that is and how you're machining it? I want to do some really nice tool shadowing, but the last time I tried milling foam it didn't go so well :P
While in the Air Force I worked in the Too Crib where all and I mean ALL the tools were shadow boxed (foam cutout). We just drew on the foam by hand and cut it out with a Dremel. We found a foam that had two different colors and used that to make it easy to see what tool was out of place. If you want to do CNC, anything that can run a Dremel size tool can cut foam.
Hey John, Love seeing how things are coming together in the shop, and especially realizing the benefits of collaboration with colleagues - Saunders, Pierson, etal. BTW - would you mind sharing the namer of that 'foam' packaging material with me [and supplier if poss]? We are not in the knife business [rather we make cameras and radio comms for sport here in Australia]. That foam could be perfect for a project we've got coming up. Thanks and keep up the great work buddy! Thommo
I have some orange vices and I'm thinking of getting their delta twin Jaws and making some of my own pallets. How are they compared to suing the Pierson System? I like the idea of just having a table full of vices vs adding some of the Pierson systems as it unifies my setup and I can use them as a vice and a pallet with little cost and changeover time.
Try Delrin AF instead of black Delrin. It's a lot more expensive, but it's teflon impregnated so it has lower friction and it chips MUCH better than black Delrin. I make race bushings out of both and hate it when I have to run a regular Delrin kit.
Use that chunk of aluminium that you had laying around in your shop to make the height adjustment nedded. Instead of using the postion that you had in the video as a fixture, just flip it 90deg and fit the new Pierson pallet and the old vacuum table ontop! :)
Not that you are close to putting wear to worry about in the DMG yet, but do you foresee rearranging the orange vises and fixtures from time to time to spread out the wear on the machine?
Looks like you're making good progress, John. Did you consider using MiteeBite Modular Expansion Pins to hold the large fixture plate? You talked about bolting it in place but those might be a better way to do it. Just ordered my MPS today so it was cool to see you playing with yours. What did Jay say about the holding strength? He mentioned making them specifically for the Tormach crowd but that was in part due to the machine HP. Hope you are doing well, sir. Tom Z
They've got half the holding force than the two ball lock systems, 1,500 lbs vs 3,000 lbs. But that's probably no biggie. It also doesn't have the cast iron core that the big one has. But it's half the price! Still looks awesome to me.
Seems odd to me that it's only those ground pads to lay the plate on. I thought it was going lay over the pallet system. That little surface area doesn't look really rigid to me, lot of overhang. I thought there was a lot of overhang as it was with the size the system compared to that plate, let alone just using those pads.
EFormance Engineering I was going to make the same comment. Don't tie up an expensive machine for foam when a co2 laser will do a stellar job and keep foam out of the nice machine.
Why not source out an injection mold for those bearing races. There are many molders that could make a steel mold to hold super tight plastic tolerances. Would also be very low cost parts
Still a fair amount of hand coding on the lathe. The basic ops are fine but all the stuff between ops I usually want to tweak, and the transfer. The Mori/fanuc post is perfect as is, not including the odd manual NC option for various M00 stops or notes.
John, how many orders do you have outstanding? If you have more than one, you're wasting time making when you have products to be completed and shipped out. Order them!
It's been almost a month John, how about an update vid to let us know what's going on and to say hello to those of us who have been subbed to your channel and following you a long time.
Haha I would make them out of 420 prehard stainless steal get them ground and never have a problem with them Hahaha yeah its extra money but then you can always take them out for mill pms and they will always be flat!
Glad to see Pierson is thinking about the growing community of micro manufacturers. I love my Pierson pallet system!
A good business owner caters to all facets of a gem. It's the approach that a successful company takes, as opposed to the big boys that simply cannot be bothered if you don't roll up to them waded in cash from top to bottom. And that's a negative on them, of those that succeed, you can bet your top dollar that they won't discuss with said company first, when they need the product.
And the practice is pertinent to any field, not specifically machinery and machining.
I love the new lean system you're emulating. Such a huge load off of your mind.
John, I use Pierson qcp. I never cut actual pallet. I bolt on another alum pallet or steel to top. Set it up as needed. Then if I decide not to make part anymore or change it, or ruin pallet, just unbolt, bolt on another. I have machined about 8 base pallets and used his hardware kits to set them up.
That's a pretty great idea, thanks!
Fantastic video John. Thank you for your generosity. You inspire courious people. Nice way up until today from your beginings. Keep it up.
Definitely getting one of these when i upgrade my CNC router I cant wait! Such awesome craftsmanship from Pierson!
John, I know our a fanatic for accuracy so make all your fixtures the same height. This way the thermal growth in z stays consistent across your various fixtures. Also male your risers out of iron if you can. Cast iron is way more stable than aluminium, that's what they build that whole machine from for a reason!
Excellent point on the Z heights and thermal expansion. Cast Iron is also very good at absorbing vibrations which definitely can't hurt either in the pursuit of the perfect surface finish.
When doing plastics I learned that the best way to deal with chip loading is to program in "micro dwells" to break the chips, combined with air blast this helps make the strings smaller and easier to blow away. Also, try hooking up air blast to the turret through the coolant lines, having air right on the tool to blow chips off boring bars really helps. I've even done crazy stuff like programming the turret to scrape chips off the tools manually with like a piece of plastic being held in place with a noga. All fairly tedious options but ones that worked for me if you are really dialing in your setups.
You could stick a strip of weather stripping around the edge of the pallet holder and prevent coolant and chips from getting in between the pallet holder and the pallet.
Your video just made me hit the buy button on the mini pallet system, thanks I think haha
Any additional videos that are just waiting to be published?? Need more from you guys, keeps me inspired!
Great video!!! Thanks and let's keep up the great work!!!!👍
At work we have some similar fixture system on the 5 axis big VMCs, made by EROWA. Measured them the other day and they were under a micron!
For your vac magic plate - you can use a vacuum pump with a small reservoir instead of the venturi vacuum. It saves your compressor from running all the time.
yep the brother needs a mounting plate under an orange vise for me to use my stubby threaded shank insert tools. about 1/2 short. makes sense since they really push that 4th axis function and it's usually using a drill or tap
John totally going to rag on you for making pins!
Dave Strong I was thinking the same thing!
Dave Strong - Yeah, that's what I was thinking. Lol.
Probably going to be called out for cutting the foam too. Poor John.
I think the reason for the in house foam is because of unreliable supplier for it. He had to wait weeks to ship products because of packaging issues.
are you kidding.. that's a product in the making right there.. $30/set of Grimsmo magnets ;-)
Thanks for the update John.
I like the process board! We use a SCRUM board at work and for a small team of 4 people its pretty helpful.
totally with yall on pilfering the pierson work holding chart. that vid nyccnc did was eye opening.
I like to see you have a clean machine, take care of it, frustrating to see machines abused and neglected. Nice man props
Update was great! I wish your content was more regular though like John S. Or maybe convince John S to make knives with weekly product update videos..... There is just something about designing a product a product that makes watching your videos very enjoyable. I guess its easier to get vested when you know the end goal. Keep it up!
That pallet system is super sweet! I'd only be concerned that there is no visual indication that the air cylinder behind the balls is fully seated. I might modify it (if it does use a cylinder) to add a hall effect sensor (COTS) to the cylinder with a visual indication. Only takes one F!@k up to more than pay for that!
Also if you like doing the foam in house, get a CO2 laser cutter. 1/4" foam can be cut by 80W easily and will keep your machine free to make stuff that brings in money. You can pick one up for $5-8k or double that for a USA made one. The only time I'd say milling foam is necessary is when you get into the really thick stuff >1". If you get into big volumes, you'll want to get a die cutter or have them die cut because then even a laser is too time consuming.
Rob F the way the pierson pallet works is similar to a trucks air brakes, where it is locked when theres no air pressure, and you use air pressure to release it. so the only issue that would happen would be the pallet being locked in place. pierson designed it as a failsafe incase theres a loss of vaccum or even a cut line.
Thanks for the fixturing ideas!
Hi John if I were planning to use riser blocks under the vacuum plate and the pierson pallet I would look at rising them to the same level as the top of the plate on the orange vice that way you know that you can get all the tools to the right position and when you are setting up you can stay close to the job in z axis and move the machine anywhere over the bed without running in to anything else yes it is idiot proofing we all make that mistake from time to time all looks good
you should totally make a video on you and your brothers personal grimsmo knives!
The foam being a dry process, perhaps you may have been better served with the larger Pearson pallet system. Then you could have just had another pallet for the foam, and use ALL of your bed to machine wet parts for productivity. Thoughts?
Love what you're doing around the shop, keep crushing it. It's great you are using the Pierson chart it's something in am going to start using as well.( can I buy some Grimsmo magnets? That would be awesome) also sorry for when Saunders gets on you for making your own lol.
Cool update 👍🏻
I'm kinda surprised you didn't have the "process" written down, i always thought that it was an in house process and you just didn't show it. But yeah, that's a key element in workflow, in, its different forms, after all not all gloves fit just any hand.
In the office of architecture, we have it laid on 4 meters of wall. Keeps us on line. Color coded per person, we have tags with the project. Each time a stage has been dealt with the person in charge advances their "peon". It's kind of like a in office game. Also, encourages friendly rivalry :)
Man, Pierson really goes out there for that finished product. I thought it was impressive before, but the close up @ 12:47ish that's really nicely made.
Put the foam in the back of the mill.
Excellent update! When are we getting more Grimsmo Grinds however?
Once you have the foam down pat, try making a steel rule die - or clicker press die that can be run by employee on an arbour press - no consumed machine time.
That is freaking cool...Love the flowsheet on the wall and the work holding gave me a few ideas too :) Pity you go missing in action every now and then :(
John, can you make a video or send me pictures of the manufacturing boards? I'd appreciate it!
Keep up the great work!
Hey John can you please talk about what kind of foam that is and how you're machining it? I want to do some really nice tool shadowing, but the last time I tried milling foam it didn't go so well :P
Yes do a vid please, I,m trying to convince the people where I work, ITS A BATTLE
John could you please shed more light on machining foam...i am looking to make some special inlays for my tools chest at work...thanks..
sunilkumar vc drag knife?
While in the Air Force I worked in the Too Crib where all and I mean ALL the tools were shadow boxed (foam cutout). We just drew on the foam by hand and cut it out with a Dremel. We found a foam that had two different colors and used that to make it easy to see what tool was out of place. If you want to do CNC, anything that can run a Dremel size tool can cut foam.
Robert Palmore Thank you Robert.
The foam i have on hand has a hard plastic layer on top for wear and tear...will give it a go.
Hey John,
Love seeing how things are coming together in the shop, and especially realizing the benefits of collaboration with colleagues - Saunders, Pierson, etal.
BTW - would you mind sharing the namer of that 'foam' packaging material with me [and supplier if poss]? We are not in the knife business [rather we make cameras and radio comms for sport here in Australia].
That foam could be perfect for a project we've got coming up.
Thanks and keep up the great work buddy!
Thommo
I have some orange vices and I'm thinking of getting their delta twin Jaws and making some of my own pallets. How are they compared to suing the Pierson System? I like the idea of just having a table full of vices vs adding some of the Pierson systems as it unifies my setup and I can use them as a vice and a pallet with little cost and changeover time.
One problem with putting a large fixture plate on the machine table is corrosion if it is left too long.
Nice job budy
Try Delrin AF instead of black Delrin. It's a lot more expensive, but it's teflon impregnated so it has lower friction and it chips MUCH better than black Delrin. I make race bushings out of both and hate it when I have to run a regular Delrin kit.
Use that chunk of aluminium that you had laying around in your shop to make the height adjustment nedded. Instead of using the postion that you had in the video as a fixture, just flip it 90deg and fit the new Pierson pallet and the old vacuum table ontop! :)
Not that you are close to putting wear to worry about in the DMG yet, but do you foresee rearranging the orange vises and fixtures from time to time to spread out the wear on the machine?
Hello John, would be nice to know what kind of foam you are using. Thanks for the video :)
Great stuff love the videos
Looks like you're making good progress, John. Did you consider using MiteeBite Modular Expansion Pins to hold the large fixture plate? You talked about bolting it in place but those might be a better way to do it. Just ordered my MPS today so it was cool to see you playing with yours. What did Jay say about the holding strength? He mentioned making them specifically for the Tormach crowd but that was in part due to the machine HP.
Hope you are doing well, sir.
Tom Z
They've got half the holding force than the two ball lock systems, 1,500 lbs vs 3,000 lbs. But that's probably no biggie. It also doesn't have the cast iron core that the big one has. But it's half the price! Still looks awesome to me.
Agreed - I can't wait to get mine and put it to use. It's going to be a game changer for how fast I can get parts turned around.
Seems odd to me that it's only those ground pads to lay the plate on. I thought it was going lay over the pallet system. That little surface area doesn't look really rigid to me, lot of overhang. I thought there was a lot of overhang as it was with the size the system compared to that plate, let alone just using those pads.
How is that machine still so clean!?
Are you using a drag knife for cutting the foam?
Why not a laser cutter? Seems like milling it will take longer, leave a rougher finish, and require more cleanup.
EFormance Engineering I was going to make the same comment. Don't tie up an expensive machine for foam when a co2 laser will do a stellar job and keep foam out of the nice machine.
Y no 4th axis long trunnion style??
Come on Cousin John, more coverage of Norseman 600!!!!
:)
How are you cutting the foam?
Why not source out an injection mold for those bearing races. There are many molders that could make a steel mold to hold super tight plastic tolerances. Would also be very low cost parts
John where did you go?
John, how much hand coding do you do? or is your post nailed for the Nakamura now?
Still a fair amount of hand coding on the lathe. The basic ops are fine but all the stuff between ops I usually want to tweak, and the transfer. The Mori/fanuc post is perfect as is, not including the odd manual NC option for various M00 stops or notes.
JohnGrimsmo ok. I'm working on a Nakamura post now which should get pretty damn close to being spot on once I'm done. Does your lathe support G496?
Ever made the case inserts out of wood? just thought it would be in keeping with the Viking theme.
what is chances of getting one of your knives? and when do you expect to have any norseman in stock?
Have you ever made your own jewellery? (Not necessarily for sale but for gifts/personal use)
Also, what does black timascus mean?
Nick Hadfield No, he's never made jewelry. 😁 - Mrs. G.
all good stuff!
That is cool, what interests do you have in a moon station?
I wonder why you don't use gopro head mount (or whatever other camera brand you use) to have both hands free to show us THINGS :)
Hey John, good video. Where are you getting your foam?
Woah, so are you cutting those custom foam cases with a dragknife on a machine?
Robert McEwen - Yeah, I have been using a drag knife on my mill for over a year. Works great!
No, not a drag knife, we're milling it as if it were metal. Works great!
How,like metal? Do you have any video doing it?
Would you ever let someone tour your shop?
Can I purchase a pin?!
John, how many orders do you have outstanding? If you have more than one, you're wasting time making when you have products to be completed and shipped out. Order them!
making those magnet pins - cool looking they don't get you paid.
i think he cant make knives
It's been almost a month John, how about an update vid to let us know what's going on and to say hello to those of us who have been subbed to your channel and following you a long time.
You guys seem awfully quiet... Any news on the Grammar front?
um... no uploads? since like forever? everything ok?
It sucks being a broke college student.. I want a Grimsmo knife so bad but can barely afford McDonalds lol
no knives yet??
....
You know what John is going to say, so I'm going to say it "Stop bootstrapping".
Haha I would make them out of 420 prehard stainless steal get them ground and never have a problem with them Hahaha yeah its extra money but then you can always take them out for mill pms and they will always be flat!
L i k e !
Where did all the awesome videos go ?
Enough of your hands! I realize your a showman, but stop!