Daybell Trial (Pt. 1): Is Chad an HONEST BELIEVER?
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- Опубликовано: 8 сен 2024
- #chaddaybell #daybelltrial #lorivallow #lorivallowdaybell #murdertrial #religiousbeliefs #narcissism #psychopathy
Hopefully I can do a series on the Chad Daybell trial, as well as related thoughts on Jodi Hildebrant and Ruby Franke. At this point, I think people realize that all three of these Mormons are, just like Lori, true believers. That said, I think there's a dimension of moral soundness, beyond one's beliefs or values, that completes the structure of true moral health or fitness. I think there's a lot we can learn from the recent crimes that are coming out of the Mormon culture, and I think these unfortunate events can teach us a lot about our own morality and fitness.
As a reference, this train of thought is following my reaction to the Braxton Southwick interview at @HiddenTrueCrime
• LORI VALLOW DAYBELL'S ...
Chad's siblings were all more successful than he was - I'm sure he'd spent his life trying to live with failure. Becoming an author - a prophet - getting a hot wife - suddenly made him feel wonderfully successful !
Right. Bummer that he ended up being publicly a joke after all the information we learned about his immature fantasies. Cool guy didn't last very long.
agree, you hit it out of the park.Also he disliked his mother d/t her not being able to make him the center of her world. (having to care for other siblings and his father also) and he dragged that grievance into his married life. Chad didn't address his problems because the problems were always caused by others.
Yes and particularly his brother Matt who married Heather, who was a tall blond. He moved to the state they lived in into their ward, even after Heather asked him not to move there. She told him she did not agree with his beliefs and didn't want him in her ward. Yet he moved there anymore. She tried to be supportive as a sister in law but it was very difficult. She warned her ward leaders about him. He was showing Julie Rowe their property and told them they would be a significant part of the 144,000, and the agenda of the end. He was also storing supplies on their property when they first moved.
He had a much better woman.
I can't believe how stupid this guy is😊
Wow your diagnosis of Chud is so spot on and reminds me of so many people in my family. They avoid dealing with the reality, the terrible thing that happened to them, and instead turn to religion to help them ignore the actual problem!
Thank you so much for this! It’s incredibly eye-opening and thought-provoking. ❤
Appreciate your comment. Ive also seen it a lot, in my own family.
Holy cow that was one of the most intriguing commentaries I’ve heard in a long time. So very thought provoking. Thank you
Yeah. Pretty sure the Chad was not very attractive to Tammy, a woman with varied interests, a beautiful smile!, a hardworking educated person who was waaaaay too good for the narcassistuc bozzo.
Sad to learn, after listening to Hidden True Crime's interview w sister in law Heather, that Chad had a similar condescending attitude toward his own mother. Appreciate your comments 😁😁
“The optics” “the performance” of being good
Not goodness, but the optics of goodness. The performance of goodness.
How true! It's such an accurate description of the fundamentalist ethic.
Some very intelligent commentary here. Thank you.
thanks, I really appreciate that 🙂
He traded Tammy/loyalty/love, in for an ego-trophy. How'd that work out?
And he planned to do this I think, even before he met Lori, he was telling people he thought she'd die young. Even though Tammy was a good mother to FIVE children and worked and was involved with the community and well-liked, it was *Chad* who thought that he'd done the hard years and now he was going to skip off into the sunset with a blonde
Right. Now people are making fun of him all over the world. He managed to make a complete fool of himself our chubby Harry Potter, smh. He used to be loser and will always be just that.
@@SusanaXpeace2u Yes. Didn't he also tell other women that he was married to them in previous "probations?" I'm thinking Julie Barnett (aka Julie Rowe) and Felonie Fibb were 2. (I think!)
Chad and Lori both had families that mostly did not call them out on their bizarre beliefs. Sadly, I think this allowed them to fester.
I think their temperaments would have gotten them into trouble no matter what, but I do agree they both were spoiled - in a way - from their upbringings. My understanding is that Chad's mom allowed him to basically treat her like a maid, and I understand he openly showed disrespect towards her. And for some reason, Lori's parents were afraid to do anything that would challenge her "delusions." Crazy...
i know from experience... Chad started thinking "I deserve a gorgeous wife" therefore no one less than his fantasy will work. My husband literally told me he deserved a wife who looks like Jennifer Lopez. not that he had looks, or money, or personality, or ANYTHING that would make it possible for him to get Jennifer Lopez. 12 years divorced he has bounced from one unattractive woman to another, never finding satisfaction
fantasies are human, but unregulated or unbounded fantasy can be downright dangerous.
I hope you are happier without him
Oh my!! Nobody is Talking about dishonesty!! Thank you.
thanks 🙂
Excellent!
I'm really pleased to see you're back making the occasional video, and to hear your thoughts about Chad today. Thanks for taking the time to do it. Yes, all those aspects of deficiencies of character and maturity can add up to alot of trouble - both for that person, and those around them. It's endlessly fascinating, trying to understand this crime, and all the issues involved with it - but issues of moral failure, immaturity and avoidance also mirrors so many of other everyday people's lives and concerns. As you say - some people "deal with" their situation, and life choices, while others can somehow justify to themselves the most atrocious acts. I'll be very interested to hear your thoughts about the Franke/Hildebrandt madness. The church/religious backgrounds of people who "behave badly" in the name of an organised religion, or their own evolving offshoots from an organised religion, or cult, surely must play a huge part in their behaviour, as the followers (or leaders, in Chad and Lori's case) of those things tend to be directing them, or approving of them behaving in what they think is their best interest. There also often seem to be significant gender issues in religiously-inspired
cases. Patriarchal nonsense, specific roles for men and women... Tammy was the full-time paid worker in the Daybell family, as well as running "his" publishing company, actively involved in her church, family, friendships, exercise, dance, and life. I'm sure he resented her ability to live her life as well as she did. I don't like slogans, but the Power, Sex and Money one does seem to sum up Chad's interests to me. He wanted to be Special. A number of Lori's family have said that she had always wanted to be Special. I appreciate the way you've thought about this situation, and are not grasping at medical diagnoses for anyone involved. Lacking patience resonated for me. The simplicity, but power, of learning to sit in the discomfort of the fever, the malady, the difficulties of life - that's such an important thing to learn. And the earlier in life, the better! Knowing that it will pass, as we process things, and not avoid them. It's a big lesson. Very good! I really do appreciate your way of thinking - Thanks again. From Bela, in Australia.
@@annabelwarmington4164 really appreciate your comment. Yes, its very interesting thad chad had such a rigid condescending attitude about women and gender. His sister in law points out that he had a very similar attitude toward his own mother, basically seeing her as little more than a maid. Although its weird how, for goddesses like Lori, there was more of a slavish adoration. Sad to think he regarded Tammy as also being basically a maid. Interesting how, down in Australia, there have also been some really eccentric religious cults. Hillsong comes to mind, and i also recall a recent case where an Australian man truly believed he was Jesus. Not sure how big Mormonism is there... Thanks again for your comment & ideas 😁😁😁
Love your analysis. TNT 🧨 Subscribed. Can’t wait to hear everything you have to say on all the things.
Thanks 😁😁
I'm soo glad I found your channel! Tyvm for making time to put this out for us common folks! ❤
Sounds more like Chad wanted to play Dungeons and Dragons from the things he said and taught.
Hey now, I loved Dungeons and Dragons as a kid 😂 Chud is making up his own fantasy
He was really following Joseph smith more closely than the church.
Integrity is important.
Thanks for the information and thoughts.
He seems very withdrawn and depressed. I think his resentment about not being called to be a Bishop also played a big part. I think he struggled with a lack of attraction to Tammy. I think he secretly resented the popular jocks and cheerleaders in high school so getting Laurie was his way of sticking it to them. The fantasy escapism helped him cope with the fact that his books weren’t a huge hit like he assumed they would be (he’s entitled). I also think he’s highly manipulative and he’s into the occult/satanism. Tylee was sacrificed and consumed as a blood sacrifice to Lucifer. Dark, crazy stuff. I think Laurie has NPD and schizophrenia. Also very manipulative and entitled. She used people as objects.
I like your style and content!
Thanks for your comment. I almost can't put into words how sneaky, sly, passive and indirect Chad really is. I do think it stems, in part, from his shyness & essential cowardice. In other words, people who avoid confrontation & don't know how to be direct, tend to be devious and sneaky, and their manipulation is very passive & it can come across as very cunning when they are super willful & stubborn, like Chard. I agree that Chad's lifelong obsession with cemeteries and death (and the violent ideation revealed in his Apocalypse fantasies) reveals a darkness that contrasts with his veneer as an "old-time pioneer stock" Mormon saint, but I don't know if he's consciously Satanic. I sense that he believes in his veneer as a model super-Mormon, and all his darkness is basically invisible and unknown to himself. I don't think Chad is someone who even has touch with his deepen interior motives and feelings, at least not in a way that he can really own. The closest he got was admitting he felt trapped in a family of ugly mediocre people, like Harry Potter, but I don't think he has the integrity to really feel and own his visceral desire to get rid of his wife. So, in that sense, I see more dissociation & immaturity in Chad than conscious occultism. But I do agree his personality definitely fits the profile of an occultist, and I think that's a good way to summarize him. Again, I really appreciate your comment :-)
Yeah.
Ironically, The Chad resented The Chads.
@@pdquestions7673you're very insightful.
What "it" does boil down to, whether They know it or not, is Satanism. The abuse mentally,.physically, spiritually. The breaking down. The degradation. Dehumanisation.
Sly passive indirect devious and sneaky. You said ir, yep
@@HumanimalChannel very ironic... he is definitely not a chad, lol
To me he appears mentally under-developed. Harry Potter from under the stairs, the storm😂, the way he describes erotic is so painfully immature, asking neighbors for 1 Million Dollars, no normal adult would do that and behave that way.
Yeah, its a struking, creepy level of immaturity
@@pdquestions7673 👍
It's easy if you lie you're a liar if you steal you're a thief if you kill You're a murderer if you cheat on your loved one you're an adulterer and Chad is all these things
True... thanks.
The optics of goodness is exactly what it is
Great video! I’m really enjoying your content. Do you have a history with Mormonism? I ask because you’re so spot on with the terminology and that’s super rare for an outsider to consistently get all the weird terms right. 😄
don't have any personal history with Mormonism, but I'd like to learn more. It's a truly American religion and culture, and the history is amazing and unique.
I’m a never-mo and subscribe to a few ex-mo channels as I also find it fascinating. Mormon Stories is a good long-form channel. Jordan and McKay and Zelph on the Shelf are young people who left. And Exmo Lex is awesome too.
THIS is the kind of commentary and analysis I've been dreaming of to help me process this case. My brain won't let me leave it but this channel might just be my ticket out! Thank you, subbed.
Thanks 😁😁
This is exactly how I feel about this Chad Daybell series! Brilliant and unflinchingly honest. Thank you @pdquestions7673.
@@akathecatlady thanks 🙂
Performative piety is a facet of most, if not all, religions, not just Mormons.
“Dear friends, do not believe every spirit but test the spirits to see whether they are from God because many false prophets have gone out into the world “ 1John 4 :1.
“Dear friends, let us love one another for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. Whoever does not love does not know God for God is love “ 1 John 4:7.
What is Love ??? Love is patient,love is kind. It does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil, but rejoices with the truth. It always protects ,always trusts,always hopes , always perseveres. Love never fails. 1 Corinthians 13: 4 -7
Thank you for your insights, enjoyed the video.
Thank you too 😁😁
Amen 💯💯💯
If someone asked me what it would take to have a grand mission, I would say go feed hungry people, help children or vulnerable people in need. Give to the local animal rescue. (Didn’t jesus tell the rich man to sell all his possessions?) Or just be kind. Love your kids, pay your taxes, be a good friend, coworker, neighbor, etc. We don’t need to do grandiose things to have meaning. I don’t need religion to have it either. I’ve been on this planet almost six decades, and if there is any answers I’ve found, it’s those, and it really is that simple. You’re spot on about having to process unpleasant things. One should do that by their 40s/50s or whatever age these cult members were when this all began.
Great comment.
I fully agree with you. I'm in my 7th decade ❤
He mixed in new age crap that is no where near mainstream LDS beliefs.
I agree with that, but - to be fair - that new age influence was becoming popular in his prepper subculture. It was already "in the air," so to speak. But it was very bad medicine for his unusual tendency to fall into fantasy and escapism. but I totally agree that most of his belief system was basically new age ...
@@pdquestions7673 that sub culture is not the LDS church. There is a huge difference there.
@@lisasmith8517 I agree with you, and sorry for any confusion, but I think there are LDS preppers in the subculture who believe these new age ideas are compatible with their LDS beliefs. Not saying they are right, but I think it's a real situation.
@@lisasmith8517the church of Jesus christ of modern day saints, Latter Day Saints...MORMANS....it is a fecund breeding ground for the Whack.its a cult hiding and breeding and growing amd denying and mutating and validating and propagating CULTS. and cultism.
Good point re turning to or developing an ideology when there are personal issues not faced honestly - seems like the escapism/fantasy/ideology then overlays the personal issues and becomes the outer veneer. Great analysis👍 😊
Thanks 😁😁😁
Wow, I just found your channel, and I have to say I feel very relieved because I felt like I was the only person alive who thought Lori was being sincere with her allocution. I didn’t believe it, but I believed she believed it. Her voice sounded sincere and I felt like a sucker.
Very interesting video. Thank you!
thanks :-)
I love your channel! It is refreshing to hear intellectual ponderings! Thank you!
thanks - appreciate that 🙂
Great diagnoses with one item missing: Chad's greatest middle-aged failure was that he had never been called to a high position in the LDS church like a bishop or stake president. That is the high mark of success for an LDS man who has lived immersed in church culture. Also, the LDS church is solely performative as "active" or "inactive" LDS, there is no discourse at all into mental health. Words denoting emotional development such as "avoidance,", "escapism", "emotional immaturity," "processing emotions" do not exist in the language or thoughts of any LDS men that I know.
yeah, that was a big miss... Wasn't Chad's dad a bishop? I wonder for how long Chad nursed private ideas that he was a prophet. Seems like, right after Visions of Glory was published, there was a rash of LDS writers recounting their near death experiences and visions of the end of the world. I would love to hear from someone close to Chad, as to what his ideas were like prior to Visions of Glory...
Thanks so much!!
Love the comparison to Harry Potter.
I’m really enjoying your videos and your perspective on the Daybell marriages and his involvement in all the deaths. Very insightful video; you brought out some very interesting perspectives on who he is and what led him to lead these crimes, because I think he did.
Im learning alot about mental health and growth here. This is very helpful.
Thanks 😁😁
People try to guess what mental illnesses might have driven Chad and Lori. I think a big point is missed. They did what all of us are capable of doing. They rationalized their behaviour, no matter how terrible. They wanted certain things and they created scenarios in which it was OK to do what they did. All of us are capable of that kind of thinking but most of us have filters that say harming others, especially children, is taboo. Chad and Lori apparently did not use those filters.
Other than their grandiose fantasies and the murders, Chad and Lori had an extramarital affair. Lots of people do that and they invent lots of rationalizations to get there. Having such a relationship breaks down a number of moral fences.
Chad and Lori are not that different from the rest of us who are very capable of rationalizing bad behaviour. That is the lesson to be learned.
Thats a really good point. That said, both Lori and Chad seem to me to be extremely immature and underdeveloped in terms of their impatience & intolerance of frustration.
Chad had his near death visions only after he saw that Julie Rowe made a lot of money from speaking about and writing about her visions. Chad is an opportunist and like you said immature. He saw Lori as a blonde cheerleader that could make his dream come true, the dream he had since high school. His brother married a “hot” wife, now he had one too.
W Chad and Lori, they have a lot of belief. But their pattern is believing what they want to be true... as opposed to being concerned w what IS true. Not that anyone knows what is true, bit its a question of attitude.
Great video. This is what happens when people stray from the Word of God. Fringe group development happens a lot. If people stick to The Word of God then they aren’t going to change it so it fits to their narrative or manipulation of others. Organized religion is different than a person who has a “personal relationship” with the Lord. Nothing wrong going to church or Temple. The warning from Jesus Christ is that there would be those who stray from the original teachings of the Bible. There are many churches who teach things that are not in accordance with God’s word. The Epistles tell you it’s not only about good works. Just being a good person is not a guarantee that the person is going to heaven. If they even believe in God. We are not supposed to be worshipping people, believing the things they say that are not in the Bible. He was running a cult. You have made excellent points in your video.
thanks :-) really appreciate your comment
Absolutely 💯💯💯right
The only unhappy, unattractive person in Chad's family was Chad!!
Lol
I don't want to hear his beliefs. Cuz they are a false religion
The cult of Mormon is sadly demonic. Though Mormons are a generally good and humble people. You CAN'T change the bible!!!!
Every religion, by it's nature, hold beliefs in the supernatural. That's the biggest problem, in my opinion.
And all the good messages that are delivered symbolically and figuratively, are taken w an immature cartoon literalism
Then you don't know the sacrifice of Jesus Christ. Hopefully some day you will, before it's too Late 🙏🏼
@barbh1 yes. @rodrod1515, many of us used to be Christian or other religions, as I once was. We did feel we knew JC, Yahweh or whoever, but many of us actually read the holy books and realized there’s no evidence for any of it. They are unproven and unproveable, so no thanks.
Phantasies.
yes
Ok so many seem to disagree with me but I'm gonna say it. Chad isnt that unattactive. People keep making his unattractiveness a feature of this crime and I dont think that considers his attractivenes in a Mormon context. He had the priesthood keys and if people understand how Mormon patriachy works and how women are attracted to power, Lori would not have been the only woman attracted to him. No reason to think his wife wasnt attracted to him. He wasnt attracted to her. That was the issue. Mormons are fundamentally polygamous. But also constrained by legalities. If it couldve been legally and financially viable for Chad to have Lori as wife no 2 and keep the mother of his children alive, I think he likely would have
Interesting way to put it
Agreed! In reality people are attracted by a wide range of looks. Those looks can be completely different than the cultural agreement on being "attractive". The problem starts when people think of themselves as being unattractive.
Edit: English is not my mother tongue. Hopefully my statement is clear
@@e.k.4508 thanks.. i completely agree
@e.k.4508 I agree but there are things that the majority find more attractive than other things. There is literally nothing wrong with Chad's appearance, his voice etc. I think people exaggerate how unattractive he generally is because they hate and are disgusted by what he did
This might sound callous but I think Chad is, more than anything else, a heartless con artist who used the soft-spoken soft sell technique to his advantage. With the little cult he formed he enjoyed the role of big frog in a small pond where in the larger Mormon community he existed as just a little guy in a strict hierarchy. HIs family life was a facade where he practiced his manipulation and control. The fact that he wanted to be a publisher, writer, and speaker shows he wanted to try and hook a wider audience to gain money and recognition. Listening to him speak at one of the conventions made it clear that he plays on that "just a mild mannered farmer Mormon guy" who had a mighty encounter with God. He picked up on how other Mormons who had Near Death Experiences were selling more books and becoming celebrities in the Mormon groups. Thus, I think he made up these experiences in order to have credibility as one who has a thin veil between worlds. The con just grew and grew as he merged fictional stories with his own prophetic warnings for his followers. Meeting another conniving, narcissistic, immature person like Lori, his archetypal fantasy woman, was the perfect storm. They both fed each other's delusions of grandeur and together concocted and acted out a voodoo horror story.
I think thats very close to what happened. The only little part thats still unclear to me is whether, underneath everything, Chad was a cynical non-believer. I think he has a Machiavellian personality, but i dont think he's a cynical non-believer. I could be wrong, of course, but thats my hunch at this time.
@@pdquestions7673 That's a fair hunch. I think he wanted very much for it to all be true and perhaps believed when caught up in the moment. Thanks for responding.
@@chamomiletea9562 maybe that's close to the sweet spot here... He's in that place of wanting it all to be true. I really appreciate your comments. It's hard to catch the right shade of grey here.
Chad Daybell is out of touch with reality. He is only a believer in his own warped sense of truth.
Like a dufuss...
FYI Mormonism is not an ethnicity.
He said it's "like an ethnicity ".
There's a difference.
It is very much like one. The speech, manner, and look. Mormons stick out in unusual ways.
I guess i see the religion as one thing, and then the culture around Mormonism as basically forming an ethnicity. I could be wrong, but that is my impression.
Interesting perspective but it doesn’t account for the potential defect he has that permitted the extermination of children or human life for that matter. I would describe Chad as a schlub, oaf is good to tho hahaha.
I think it's possible he's not a straight up psychopath (although I don't rule it out). It could be that his utter immaturity and tendency toward fantasy and escapism allowed his religious beliefs to serve his need for self-preservation (and the avoidance of obstacles and frustrations), to the point that he could end up committing extreme acts. Especially if he was under the delusion that the children were essentially dead & possessed by evil spirits. Granted, these delusions were basically what Chad wanted to believe, and this would definitely be the thought process of a pure coward, or a pathologically avoidant person. But I don't think he had to be a pure psychopath to do what he did. I think it's also possible that a severely immature and avoidant, fantasy-prone person could end up where he did. But, of course, I don't rule out the possibility that he's a straight up psychopath.
@@pdquestions7673 I saw your more recent review of the phone call and while it was a poor use of metaphors on Chad and Lori’s part you followed it effectively IMO. I’m curious was the soil problematic for them or was it a figurative meaning? Also why the hell wouldn’t they bury them deeper?
@@pdquestions7673 I think Chad is the worst of the bunch because he KNOWS he doesn't see dead people, or visit "the other side." He was using the light and dark scales eagerly and with gusto like a kid on a treasure hunt. But, I truly, truly believe he got off on the power of being the one who was the direct vehicle to the answers delivered by the dead people. I truly believe he KNOWS he was pretending. He knows he wasn't texting with Alex. He knows it. Lori didn't know for sure. She wanted to believe, but even she started to sound skeptical. She should have said, "ok, show me the texts." Essentially, when she said to him, "I need to hear it will be ok FROM YOU, every day, several times a day." She lost It after he went away because there was no one left to prop up her fantasy. I think she has basically lost any sense of reality.
@@DorothyJanetoo you could be right. In some ways, chad reminds me of joseph smith
@@pdquestions7673 He shows malignant narcissistic characteristics or psychopathic tendencies. He also seems to feel entitled. He feels he should have been acknowledged and allowed to advance in position in the Mormon church. He was the victim of not being seen as the wonderful individual he was. His sister in law Heather was given a place of prominence in Rexburg, and I think when he moved there he was playing off her power. She warned the leaders but they couldn't see it.