i had no idea airsoft tech goes this deep almost a whole video on the motor i love it (srsly why havent more people seen this channel, its detailed and funny af)
Please give us more videos like this!!!! Please!!!! It is so mentally satisfying and calming to watch a full Video of someone working on a gearbox so well and confidentially. Please also give us more CQB gameplay with your DSG project gun with the kry tac body and cyma hand guard.
I did for a while, but I have a problem with taking on too many hobbies at once, so I closed commissions for now. Yes you can rip apart a 12:1 sector as well as a DSG and slap them together with jb weld. You'll need to mold cutoff cams on the bottom with more jbweld or a 3d printed part!
The bevel benefits the most since it has to spin about 6 times per cycle, where the others only do about one or two. The spur and sector also get some pretty big shock forces so as a long term durability decision I put bushings in those spots. The bearings are also more expensive, $40/6 vs $20/6 so it can be considered a small cost saving measure that doesn't trade too much efficiency
I hate to be the one that says this but, if you have to use that much leverage to press a tiny pinion onto a tiny shaft and use JB weld on top of that...🤔 maybe there's a different way a person should do that? I mean Im no airsoft tech but I am a L1 ASE master automotive mechanic that has been working on machines since 1997 . I mean if it works, it works but it seems like about a million things could go sideways or even quadrilateral forcing a 25 cent pinion onto a 150 dollar motor. I've had to stick some parts in an oven while sticking the corresponding part in the freezer before I press them together and that's normally a very, very tight fit with no adhesive or locking other than friction. I don't like JB weld on any polished or chrome surface simply because it will not tooth properly plus in weld will eventually sluff apart and the dust and bits will get sucked right in the motor or the gears. When those case hardened gears are spinning at twice the speed of the pinion and they grab a small chunk of JB weld, the gears are gonna see damage.
It isn't actually that much force, I'm just a little wimp with noodle arms so I need the mechanical advantage to compensate, and the JB weld is there to fill in the cavity due to it being a D shaft. I've seen retaining compounds to be also successful. I was actually just complaining to my friends the other day about the absence of actual engineers, legitimate practices, or even any reasonable consideration of basic mechanical principles in the tech world, so I welcome your advice! There's too much "oh this because this," but the why is always severely lacking or flawed 😔
World of airsoft: muddled tolerances, poor qc, tons of needed DIY. The lonex spiral pinion gear is probably one of the best on the market but theres currently no o type shaft brushless motors, which are the best motors (cough paragon). Neither the inside of the pinion nor the flat face of the motors d shaft are polished and I've used jb weld on quite a few with no issues. Not saying it couldn't happen, but id wager the reliability and performance of having the spiral pinion and bevel gear outweighs the risk of jb weld particles coming loose.
@@jhqtech it makes sense but I just get flooded with past horrible experiences. I trust that you know what your doing. I personally would find a different way. I also have lathes, drill presses, welders, cutters all at hands reach . As for a replacement for JB weld, green loctite? I still would wager if you put the heat gun on the pinion it would help😏
@@j-airsoft I agree on the lack of technical support. Even though these are basically toys they take a beating. When it comes to any sort of mechanical work training is important. Regardless the size of the components the theory remains the same. I would love to see more dedicated products for teching. Automotive grade loctite is maybe too much for a lot of applications being the fasteners are Soo small. I mean it's almost like being a clock master but with a lot of mechanic slammed in there. In the past year I have noticed more tools being available to buy like your pinion press. I have been rolling the idea of building V2 and v3 gear boxes with multiple levels of performance and making them as close to " drop in " as I can. I am right there with you wishing there was more available for the ones that work on this stuff.
@@robsorgdrager8477 haha having all those tools does certainly open more options. And we always love learning new ways to do stuff so by all means theres no one right way. I will say tho I've tried green loctite and had pinions slip down the motor shaft which is why I advocate for a small bit of jb weld
Definitely doable, but don't just pick a weaker spring, because the cycle rate will chew through your piston teeth. Go at least sp120 and remove sector teeth until your energy drops enough. Choose a small inner barrel, it doesn't matter too much if it's shorter than your outer.
What spring should i use in a dsg with a 39k motor the t238 i tried a 150 spring and a 170 and the motor does not have enough power to fully cycle it i changed the tappet plate spring no luck
M150. With 8T you can push a ton of energy. If you need more, look at compression quality first. Stronger springs doesn't always mean more fps, and in weird cases you might lose it.
How do i know if my airsoft gun can handle new parts?` I'm looking into a few 'small upgrades' like the motor, trigger and spring But im not sure if my airsoft gun can handle it, so how do i find out if it can?
trigger is easy, spring and motor depend on how strong the new spring and motor are. If you're using a standard pot metal shell, you probably don't want anything higher than m130 or equivalent. Motor, nothing that will push more than 25 rps because then you'd need a stronger spring to push the piston forward fast enough for the next cycle. rps approx. = (RPM / 60) / (gear ratio) * (0.85 load fudge factor)
Hi, I have an issue with FPS Softair x-ring pistonheads and came here for some help/advice. The issue I've been getting is that it won't hold air when compression testing it. I tried multiple cylinders, even tried different o-ring and x-rings, but still no luck. I know that it is the pistonhead, because when I grab a stock VFC piston it hold air and when I release the pressure, it shoots back. Although the FPS Softair pistonhead still gives a consistent fps, I just don't like the fact that it isn't sealing properly. Is it possible that you might know what the reason could be of the issue? (Fyi all of the compression parts are brand new)
x rings are more sensitive to cylinder bore, you can try stretching the ring around the cylinder and gently heating it then let it cool while still around the cylinder to make it a bit wider.
@@j-airsoft Thank you for the reply, that was the first thing I tried. But even with it stretched, it is still not sealing. When I compress it by hand, I can hear air escaping tru the ports or where the pistonhead is pressed (silver center piece). I just don't get it, because in all the builds that I have it's doing that. And the cylinders I've tried are Begadi, VFC, Specna Arms, Maxx and FPS Softair. It sealed in none, while a stock VFC piston assembly sealed in all, no matter what the cylinder and cylinderhead combi was.
@@F4TBLOKE you may have an out of spec x ring. At the very least it should be sealing in its own brand cylinder! I've had good results in VFC/CYMA and FPS cylinders without needing to expand them. Lately there's this teal-ish flourine rubber based oring my peers have been praising. Might be worth trying those. (Drop into any piston head) 2.4x20mm (cross section x OD)
@@j-airsoft The thing is, I have 6 those pistonheads and all of them are doing it. Changed out the fps x-ring for begadi x-rings, no luck. So I'm deciding to get Gate POM piston heads.
Also tried the o-ring from the vfc piston on the fps pistonhead, and still leaky. Edit: I just ordered those fluorine based o-rings and I'll test those, if it still leaks, I'll replace all the FPS pheads with either Gate POMs or Lonex POMs.
I'm arrived at a point where I'm almost going to throw all my dsg's out of the window. And came here again to ask for help. So I have 1 dsg that just doesn't want to fire consistently and does relatively low fps for the spring strength. The other 2 dsg's are brushless and have low fps. Please help me 😅 I'm also able to send pictures (discord)
bro can you teach me the magic trick with which you get your builds so quiet? like no matter what i do mine is loud as sht. i got the lower gearbox allready figured out, the gears are pretty much unnoticable but no matter what kind of lube or cylinderhead i put in it sounds like a baseball player hitting a home run strike. for reference ill put my build here maybe you can spot something that is out of touch: m160, 8tooth dsg/18:1 spur/helical bevel+pinion, brushless 30k, shs pre swiss cheesed piston+ lonex pom head+ thrust bearing (O-ring replaced with X-ring), lonex cylinderhead (the blue one), 21.00 nozzle, 200mm inner. would hugely appreciate your help cuz its honestly starting to drive me nuts to see all these youtubers getting dead silent builds but mine is basically louder than my car no matter how much i fck around with it
That is a really funny analogy 😂 Can you tell if the pop is from the gearbox or muzzle? Shove it into a blanket and dryfire it. If it's suddenly much quieter then you're over voluming. It's better to over than under, but if you're chasing things like this you get into the small things. My barrels are all 6.02 and around 170 iirc. I haven't checked in a while. Those are all good parts btw. I thought you had a metal piston head at first since you called it a home run lol, but nah you made the right choice with pom
The 160 might still be slapping really hard though and i can't help with that other than suggesting maybe a thin sorbo. But then I'd get flamed for trying to use a part the way its meant to be
@j-airsoft I can't believe I didn't think of the fact that one can actually overvolume a dsg too🤦😂. The trick with the blanket is pure gold tho gonna try it out as soon as im home. Solution whise I guess a sorbo will help to both dampen the impact and get the volume a little lower, question about that: what shore should it be since I want good dempening but I have a m160 pushing the piston home roughly 45 times a second so I can't go soft I guess. Or im thinking of shortstroking to 6 teeth for reduced volume and making the spring not go as hard but then the question arises do I evenly distribute the missing teeth evenly to pickup and release side like on a ssg? Cuz I would rather leave the release side alone. Thx in advance
@@Fatman-ze9dv Yes. A 150 8T can do over 350 with .25s. i only ever remove from pickup, but people will disagree about that too. You lose a lot of energy per tooth in a dsg since they rely on the higher pressure spike more than an ssg. Go one at a time if you want to ss
Ah, silly me I forgot what was in my own video. No it's not uploaded anywhere, I figured it was too special case (this shell, this receiver) to put on public domain. I'll upload it to my drive later tho since there's interest
thanks@@j-airsoft definitely upload it if you can. I use retro arms shells quite often and have this issue with some receivers. Either credit cards cut up or nylon washers for extreme cases work but this is a great design!
I wouldn't use a stock motor, usually because the magnets are really weak, but yes! PC is a solid way to get response. On my SR25 I purposely built it to be super slow + use max PC. I couldn't get lower than 13rps. However! Especially on a stock motor, you can "outrun" your cycle rate and pull the trigger again before the precock is ready. Some electronics freeze up when you do that, but often you just feel weird that a bb didn't yeet and pull again.
Hi, is it normal that a brushed motor shaft has tiny amount (about 0.5mm) of axial / vertical play? Or it must be shimmed until absolutely zero movement?
0.5mm is quite a lot considering airsoft shims can be precise down to 0.05mm! I would try to shim it to at least 0.15mm. Don't fully lock it otherwise you'd be adding friction
i had no idea airsoft tech goes this deep
almost a whole video on the motor
i love it
(srsly why havent more people seen this channel, its detailed and funny af)
I've been a tech for 3 years and I've never gone this far, the amount of work he put into this makes my most intensive projects look like nothing
Please give us more videos like this!!!! Please!!!! It is so mentally satisfying and calming to watch a full Video of someone working on a gearbox so well and confidentially.
Please also give us more CQB gameplay with your DSG project gun with the kry tac body and cyma hand guard.
You should do custom builds for people. Also Is there any way to get a rocket 12.1 spur to work with a rocket dsg? If so maybe a vid???
I did for a while, but I have a problem with taking on too many hobbies at once, so I closed commissions for now. Yes you can rip apart a 12:1 sector as well as a DSG and slap them together with jb weld. You'll need to mold cutoff cams on the bottom with more jbweld or a 3d printed part!
That is a beautiful gearbox shell. The milling pattern left on it reminds me of the Black Ops 2 Carbon Fiber camo.
Only 2 delicious j cages my heart hurts. Nice vid bud I need to get some duster gas that's a tool I never thought about before.
😅 yeah a bit of fast air can be quite handy
What is the reason for going with a mix of bearings and bushings instead of all bearings ? Thanks for the video learned a lot!
The bevel benefits the most since it has to spin about 6 times per cycle, where the others only do about one or two. The spur and sector also get some pretty big shock forces so as a long term durability decision I put bushings in those spots. The bearings are also more expensive, $40/6 vs $20/6 so it can be considered a small cost saving measure that doesn't trade too much efficiency
Thank you for the detailed reply ! @@j-airsoft
just amazing job thank you for sharing your work
I hate to be the one that says this but, if you have to use that much leverage to press a tiny pinion onto a tiny shaft and use JB weld on top of that...🤔 maybe there's a different way a person should do that? I mean Im no airsoft tech but I am a L1 ASE master automotive mechanic that has been working on machines since 1997 . I mean if it works, it works but it seems like about a million things could go sideways or even quadrilateral forcing a 25 cent pinion onto a 150 dollar motor.
I've had to stick some parts in an oven while sticking the corresponding part in the freezer before I press them together and that's normally a very, very tight fit with no adhesive or locking other than friction. I don't like JB weld on any polished or chrome surface simply because it will not tooth properly plus in weld will eventually sluff apart and the dust and bits will get sucked right in the motor or the gears. When those case hardened gears are spinning at twice the speed of the pinion and they grab a small chunk of JB weld, the gears are gonna see damage.
It isn't actually that much force, I'm just a little wimp with noodle arms so I need the mechanical advantage to compensate, and the JB weld is there to fill in the cavity due to it being a D shaft. I've seen retaining compounds to be also successful. I was actually just complaining to my friends the other day about the absence of actual engineers, legitimate practices, or even any reasonable consideration of basic mechanical principles in the tech world, so I welcome your advice! There's too much "oh this because this," but the why is always severely lacking or flawed 😔
World of airsoft: muddled tolerances, poor qc, tons of needed DIY. The lonex spiral pinion gear is probably one of the best on the market but theres currently no o type shaft brushless motors, which are the best motors (cough paragon). Neither the inside of the pinion nor the flat face of the motors d shaft are polished and I've used jb weld on quite a few with no issues. Not saying it couldn't happen, but id wager the reliability and performance of having the spiral pinion and bevel gear outweighs the risk of jb weld particles coming loose.
@@jhqtech it makes sense but I just get flooded with past horrible experiences. I trust that you know what your doing. I personally would find a different way. I also have lathes, drill presses, welders, cutters all at hands reach . As for a replacement for JB weld, green loctite? I still would wager if you put the heat gun on the pinion it would help😏
@@j-airsoft I agree on the lack of technical support. Even though these are basically toys they take a beating. When it comes to any sort of mechanical work training is important. Regardless the size of the components the theory remains the same. I would love to see more dedicated products for teching. Automotive grade loctite is maybe too much for a lot of applications being the fasteners are Soo small. I mean it's almost like being a clock master but with a lot of mechanic slammed in there. In the past year I have noticed more tools being available to buy like your pinion press. I have been rolling the idea of building V2 and v3 gear boxes with multiple levels of performance and making them as close to " drop in " as I can. I am right there with you wishing there was more available for the ones that work on this stuff.
@@robsorgdrager8477 haha having all those tools does certainly open more options. And we always love learning new ways to do stuff so by all means theres no one right way. I will say tho I've tried green loctite and had pinions slip down the motor shaft which is why I advocate for a small bit of jb weld
Do you think running a Warhead motor in a DSG build
Definitely doable, but don't just pick a weaker spring, because the cycle rate will chew through your piston teeth. Go at least sp120 and remove sector teeth until your energy drops enough. Choose a small inner barrel, it doesn't matter too much if it's shorter than your outer.
Nice vid, im excited for the next part👍
What spring should i use in a dsg with a 39k motor the t238 i tried a 150 spring and a 170 and the motor does not have enough power to fully cycle it i changed the tappet plate spring no luck
M150. With 8T you can push a ton of energy. If you need more, look at compression quality first. Stronger springs doesn't always mean more fps, and in weird cases you might lose it.
Super, chcę więcej, bardzo konkretnie i ciekawie nagrywasz.
How do i know if my airsoft gun can handle new parts?`
I'm looking into a few 'small upgrades' like the motor, trigger and spring
But im not sure if my airsoft gun can handle it, so how do i find out if it can?
trigger is easy, spring and motor depend on how strong the new spring and motor are. If you're using a standard pot metal shell, you probably don't want anything higher than m130 or equivalent. Motor, nothing that will push more than 25 rps because then you'd need a stronger spring to push the piston forward fast enough for the next cycle.
rps approx. = (RPM / 60) / (gear ratio) * (0.85 load fudge factor)
What are the Screw Drivers you use? I have been meaning to get a decent set for my maintenance kit.
I swear by Wera drivers! My main kit is their Kraftform Kompakt 62!
Nice, keep up the good work
great video, can you tell me inner and outer diametar from motor shim?
It show in the video 0.3-0.4mm
cant wait for part 2
YAAAAAAY NEW VIDEOOOO!!
Hi,
I have an issue with FPS Softair x-ring pistonheads and came here for some help/advice.
The issue I've been getting is that it won't hold air when compression testing it. I tried multiple cylinders, even tried different o-ring and x-rings, but still no luck.
I know that it is the pistonhead, because when I grab a stock VFC piston it hold air and when I release the pressure, it shoots back.
Although the FPS Softair pistonhead still gives a consistent fps, I just don't like the fact that it isn't sealing properly.
Is it possible that you might know what the reason could be of the issue?
(Fyi all of the compression parts are brand new)
x rings are more sensitive to cylinder bore, you can try stretching the ring around the cylinder and gently heating it then let it cool while still around the cylinder to make it a bit wider.
@@j-airsoft Thank you for the reply, that was the first thing I tried.
But even with it stretched, it is still not sealing. When I compress it by hand, I can hear air escaping tru the ports or where the pistonhead is pressed (silver center piece).
I just don't get it, because in all the builds that I have it's doing that.
And the cylinders I've tried are Begadi, VFC, Specna Arms, Maxx and FPS Softair. It sealed in none, while a stock VFC piston assembly sealed in all, no matter what the cylinder and cylinderhead combi was.
@@F4TBLOKE you may have an out of spec x ring. At the very least it should be sealing in its own brand cylinder! I've had good results in VFC/CYMA and FPS cylinders without needing to expand them. Lately there's this teal-ish flourine rubber based oring my peers have been praising. Might be worth trying those. (Drop into any piston head) 2.4x20mm (cross section x OD)
@@j-airsoft The thing is, I have 6 those pistonheads and all of them are doing it.
Changed out the fps x-ring for begadi x-rings, no luck. So I'm deciding to get Gate POM piston heads.
Also tried the o-ring from the vfc piston on the fps pistonhead, and still leaky.
Edit:
I just ordered those fluorine based o-rings and I'll test those, if it still leaks, I'll replace all the FPS pheads with either Gate POMs or Lonex POMs.
What are you using to install the bearings?
Retro Arms' bearing tool
It's a chunk of metal that's conveniently sized to press down on bearing flanges so I dont mash the inner race through.
the best channel that i found, this is incredible how you do everything perfect! amazing! part 2? XD
fiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiineeeeeeeeeeeeee
@@j-airsoft hahaah, do you have an IG doing this tech stuff? or nah?
@@TorksTube nah, just YT and discord
I'm arrived at a point where I'm almost going to throw all my dsg's out of the window.
And came here again to ask for help.
So I have 1 dsg that just doesn't want to fire consistently and does relatively low fps for the spring strength.
The other 2 dsg's are brushless and have low fps.
Please help me 😅
I'm also able to send pictures (discord)
sure, video of it in cycling a few times in semi, and a picture of the gearbox with tappet pls
Tried to add you (f4tbloke), but I can't send a message, because I'm not in a server with you.
What are you using to lock down your bearings?
Loctite 648 probably. It's made for that.
bro can you teach me the magic trick with which you get your builds so quiet? like no matter what i do mine is loud as sht. i got the lower gearbox allready figured out, the gears are pretty much unnoticable but no matter what kind of lube or cylinderhead i put in it sounds like a baseball player hitting a home run strike.
for reference ill put my build here maybe you can spot something that is out of touch: m160, 8tooth dsg/18:1 spur/helical bevel+pinion, brushless 30k, shs pre swiss cheesed piston+ lonex pom head+ thrust bearing (O-ring replaced with X-ring), lonex cylinderhead (the blue one), 21.00 nozzle, 200mm inner.
would hugely appreciate your help cuz its honestly starting to drive me nuts to see all these youtubers getting dead silent builds but mine is basically louder than my car no matter how much i fck around with it
That is a really funny analogy 😂
Can you tell if the pop is from the gearbox or muzzle? Shove it into a blanket and dryfire it. If it's suddenly much quieter then you're over voluming. It's better to over than under, but if you're chasing things like this you get into the small things. My barrels are all 6.02 and around 170 iirc. I haven't checked in a while. Those are all good parts btw. I thought you had a metal piston head at first since you called it a home run lol, but nah you made the right choice with pom
The 160 might still be slapping really hard though and i can't help with that other than suggesting maybe a thin sorbo. But then I'd get flamed for trying to use a part the way its meant to be
@j-airsoft I can't believe I didn't think of the fact that one can actually overvolume a dsg too🤦😂. The trick with the blanket is pure gold tho gonna try it out as soon as im home.
Solution whise I guess a sorbo will help to both dampen the impact and get the volume a little lower, question about that: what shore should it be since I want good dempening but I have a m160 pushing the piston home roughly 45 times a second so I can't go soft I guess.
Or im thinking of shortstroking to 6 teeth for reduced volume and making the spring not go as hard but then the question arises do I evenly distribute the missing teeth evenly to pickup and release side like on a ssg? Cuz I would rather leave the release side alone.
Thx in advance
Also can a m150 propell .28s to around 280-300 fps? Cuz if so ill order one, i suppose that will quiet everything down a good bit too
@@Fatman-ze9dv Yes. A 150 8T can do over 350 with .25s. i only ever remove from pickup, but people will disagree about that too. You lose a lot of energy per tooth in a dsg since they rely on the higher pressure spike more than an ssg. Go one at a time if you want to ss
what gears
hi, you are really very good, will you post more videos in the future? Thank you
I won't say no, but I don't have time to recently. Just enough to respond to comments and stuff.
part 2...?? 😢😢
too many projects! not enough time! 😭
is the file for the gearbox alignment ring on thingiverse?
Alignment ring?
Ah, silly me I forgot what was in my own video. No it's not uploaded anywhere, I figured it was too special case (this shell, this receiver) to put on public domain. I'll upload it to my drive later tho since there's interest
thanks@@j-airsoft definitely upload it if you can. I use retro arms shells quite often and have this issue with some receivers. Either credit cards cut up or nylon washers for extreme cases work but this is a great design!
@@zack8690 It's up in formats .f3d and .obj, let me know if you want any other formats that Fusion360 can convert to
@@j-airsoft thanks! Could you make an stl file? I usually download stl files off thingiverse
*my opinion* just use precocking for equal trigger response on a ssg with a stock motor and gears lol
I wouldn't use a stock motor, usually because the magnets are really weak, but yes! PC is a solid way to get response. On my SR25 I purposely built it to be super slow + use max PC. I couldn't get lower than 13rps. However! Especially on a stock motor, you can "outrun" your cycle rate and pull the trigger again before the precock is ready. Some electronics freeze up when you do that, but often you just feel weird that a bb didn't yeet and pull again.
@@j-airsoft Ofc It won't be quite as nice but for the cost of a Perun or Aster def worth and my way to go
Part2
need delayer?
why? He's already used it; looks good to me! ruclips.net/user/shorts9dC237kG8Ls
Noice
Hi, is it normal that a brushed motor shaft has tiny amount (about 0.5mm) of axial / vertical play? Or it must be shimmed until absolutely zero movement?
0.5mm is quite a lot considering airsoft shims can be precise down to 0.05mm! I would try to shim it to at least 0.15mm. Don't fully lock it otherwise you'd be adding friction
@@j-airsoft Ok thanks for the reply and the advice!
DRATS I DIDNT GET THE FIRST COMMENT
No hagas toda esa preparación y le metas la mierda de gatillo electrónico de T238... Ponle un Gate Titan
☝😂😂