Very nicely done. I like your frog, basic but will do the job. At Maricopa Live Steamers in Phoenix, I build all our switches with 2x4 plastic ties and all steel rail. We also make our own frogs out of steel which will last decades. Our points are milled 1" C-channel. It take me 6 hrs to build one but takes 5 hrs prep work for all the parts used. We used aluminum rail and frogs for years until we realized the flange wear made the track wide gauge and unusable. I was replacing switches every 6 years. With 540 switches, this is an impossible task. Moving to steel rail is cheaper in the long run for our climate and environment. Thank you for the video and detailed description.
Have been to Maricopa. That's a public operation that sees considerably more traffic than backyard railroads. Public clubs also have the fin'l resources to afford...steel rail (which can cost about the same as aluminum), but plastic ties are expensive. And completed steel rail on plastic ties turnout is also considerably heavier than aluminum rail on wood ties. But you're right...the prep work takes time. Doing as much prep work on the front end, makes the final assembly go faster and easier. And for an old-er mans hobby, the more work you can do on a table fixture is better than getting down on hands and knees on the ground. Thanks for your comment.
I’ve seen so many of these and have never realized how much work goes into them. I found this video very interesting and I enjoyed watching it. Thanks for the great video!
Actually, the entire assembly is known as a "turnout". The "switch" or "points" refer to the movable part of the assembly. Although most people just call this a switch. Carl B.
@@user-qp2nk9qm8w ... sorry for the delay Jose. Can't really answer your question other than to say, most people don't know proper terminology for the various components that make up a turnout. When approaching a turnout, the "points" are used to change the traffic direction, or switch tracks. Hence, most people simply refer to the entire piece of trackwork as "a switch".
We have a little homestead and I’m looking to eventually build a simple track to help move feed so we’re not tearing up the yard driving the truck up to the pens (and it’s just way more fun). The current plan will definitely require at least one switch, possibly two or three, so this was very helpful! We’re potentially looking at 7.5” gauge, 3.75” scale (two-foot-gauge prototype) so my fiancé can sit with his legs inside; he dislikes straddling with motorcycle pegs.
That's basically what I'm doing on my ranch. For a similar reason. (Not for feed specifically, but because the way my 20 acres is laid out, a 'walking' path is more practical and better for the natural vegetation and drainage to get from the house to the greenhouse (Which has to be further away because septic field), and to the rainwater catch-pond (ALSO far from the house because septic field). And also I don't feel like making 30 trips between the greenhouse and the catch-pond every week, or doing the damage that dragging a 500 gallon water trailer 3 times a week would do, when I can take the train out with 30 water tankers and do the same thing all in one 250' long consist on Saturday. (And then the rest of the week use other trackworks to just drive around and do 'yardwork' on the rest of the acreage)
@@NikkiTheOtter Yeah, septic fields are annoying to work around. I’m only on five acres, but we get, give or take, about thirty fifty-pound bags of feed every month and keep it in metal barrels. It’s definitely _easier_ to just use the truck, but a train would do less damage to the grass and again would be a lot more fun~ Do you have any advice or suggestions? I’m still new to the live steam hobby and still getting my bearings on what to go for and avoid.
@@Naro_Rivers Honestly, you've probably got as much experience in the train side of things as I do. All my experience is in radio controlled cars and planes. (Which means a train should be MIND-NUMBINGLY easy for me to build and operate, but real life sometimes sneaks in little differences.)
Great video! That tie drilling rig is pretty cool! Have to remember that one! This has to be one of the best if not the best 7.5" gauge turnout construction videos on RUclips (there's a few). Thanks for sharing.
Usually when I build a switch, I just walk outside and go into my backyard. I find the thickest tree with the thinnest branches. Then I pluck the branch with the longest single segment gap between small branches. I then take this branch, peel the skin, and gently break in even increments partly through the branch. The branch at this point would be a switch. Perfect for keeping those nephews in check. Your switch was good, too. Need to make some of those kind myself.
I would very much like to see a plan or better a video on how to build that drill jig for drilling the ties to gauge. That will also save a ton of time building track panels.
Thinking behind not using washers under the screw heads? Even though I use #10 hex head sheet metal screws I always used a washer under the head. That gave the rails a little less friction to fight to allow the rails to expand and contract. Like Switchbuilder1949, I made my frogs, for the most part, out of steel. Wish I had had steel rail but none was available almost 45 years ago. They were built of plates of steel cut to the frog angle. Then rectangular stock was used for the running and guard rail parts of it. All welded together. The base was then drilled in place to fasten to the ties. When finished, installed, and tested, they were given a coat of Chevron Pinion Grease MS. Even after all these years, they have not rusted due to the coating. It actually pulls itself into any gaps.
I've been doing research with an eye toward building a 7.5" railroad in our yard in our retirement... The general consensus is that steel frogs and points are advisable. There's a few companies online that sell turnout point rails machined from 1" tall steel rail, and welded up frogs in a number of frog angles (one company does cast steel frogs too). They're more expensive than aluminum equivalents, but at least wearing them out is never a concern.
@@WHJeffB Some people do not like steel frogs as they can damage softer cast iron wheels. Those people use Aluminum frogs but then find that the harder cast iron wheels wear out the tips of the frog in fairly rapid succession. Railroads use a very hard frog with steel wheels for a reason, maintenance costs. Wheels are easy to change out or re-machine. Frogs are something that takes a lot of work to replace.
Interesting timing. I spent yesterday building a batch of much smaller #7 turnouts. Mine are only 16.5mm gauge but the principles are the same. I was a little surprised to see such a thin switchpoint. Surely that is going to wear quickly. Wouldn't it be better to mill one from rail?
Good observation. You bring up several point. Materials selected are based on cost and ease of machining. Have built turnouts using both 1x1x 1/8" hot rolled angle and stainless steel. Stainless takes a bit more time to machine. At the the tip of the point, the 1/8" angle is machined to 1/16 thick over an approx. 5" distance. Due to the angle of the switch point to the stock rail, the actual distance where a wheel is only on the edge of the angle is relatively short. Wear is not as bad as you think it is. There are people that will machine a point (usually steel) to a knife edge. Yes, I've seen those wear and break. Rate or wear will be dependent on the amount of rail traffic the point sees.
@@carlbaskin270 One of the things I tried way back was using steel for the points and then using a high Nickel content rod to build up just the tip. Points never wore but some people complained about their wheels being damaged by the impacts. Solved that by notching the rails slightly so the tip of the point lined up with the inside head of the rail.
It would be interesting to try some of this with new 3D printed plastics. Some of the smaller parts could be replaced. You are using aluminum and there are some new fibers out now that are as strong as aluminum.
This is really cool how you all built this turn out. My question I have is, with all the weight and friction and movement that goes through how often do you check the screws that hold down the the rails?
Once the screws are down, there isn’t a big issue with them coming loose. The screws will become loose when the ties begin to age and deteriorate as the wood rots (you’re talking about 10+ years of service). At that point, you replace the tie and just put in new screws.
It's a pretty involved machining process to mill switch points (and frogs for that matter) and you need a pretty good sized mill to do it. Prototype switch points are planed, but not many 7.25"/7.5" gauge home shops will have a planer, much less one big enough to do this operation.
Why? Cost vs time. I've heard of some operations machining prototypic points...7 operations. And then, while the point knife edge looks impressive, those typically don't last long under heavy train traffic.
Different clubs and track owners use different materials. Usually dictated by budget. In the vid, the ties used were treated lumber rated for direct ground contact. Still, the ties should be supported by ballast to facilitate drainage.
Without getting too technical, flange ways are specified as 5/16" to 3/8" height and width. Always need to be careful to keep flange ways clear of ballast or other debris.
5/29/20 12:41p.m.Ok you don't want to rush or out work your work on a job like that you need to know exactly on what you are doing and dealing with you need to work with your team member safely according to the instructions so no one gets hurt so the job can be done safely and also be done nice and neatly and you also really want to take your time so it can come out just perfect and the correct and right way and the Safeway that's also what my step -dad taught me,4:35
No doubt, sharp cutting tools go a long way towards drilling holes easier...but sometimes a tool the cuts TOO WELL, end up producing blood on the job (please don't ask how I know!)
Fi Fun You would have to use reinforced concrete using pretensioned steel wires with the raw concrete poured over them in a tie mould during the manufacturering process. Plain unreinforced concrete would crumble and break under the pounding of traffic passing over them.
I don’t recall his exact pricing on these turnouts. Another vender who offers switch kits is charging $800 per kit for a similar #7 switch with some modest quantity discounts. That’s just the kit with instructions to give you some perspective. It’s much cheaper to buy the materials and learn to build yourself.
I don't understand why the frog, and the guard rails weren't predrilled when they had them on the mill for the other operations? For any specific number switch, you know where they are going to be... why not drill them out?
Making those proposed holes in the frog would require more tightly gauging where the ties aligned as assembling the turn out. They may be able to jig that up, but may feel it isn't time effective in this application.
@@cdjhyoung Two more quick operations on the mill could be used to mill slots in the sides of the frog block (one in each side), which would make drilling for the final mounting screw holes a lot easier.
You might be surprised how much lateral movement there is from turnout to turnout. Even with a fixture, you can't build the turnout so tight that it won't come out of the fixture. Will add, by the time the turnout is "planted" in a railroad, things have already moved around quite a bit. Bottom line, some operations are best done during the time of assembly.
Know what you're talking about. Out of school, worked for a short bit for Amtrak. Was stationed up in the Northeast Corridor, where the turnouts were even LONGER. Don't recall the turnout number, but those were "high speed" turnouts so trains could be moved from track to track without slowing down too much.
Why are the switch points made of angle iron and not running rail? While working perfectly, that frog looks awful. A great touch would be to manufacture switch plates, that would make the turnout look authentic. Granted a lot of work.
The frog was intended to be "functional". A bar of aluminum was readily available. It does the job and when you roll over the frog at 5 to 7 mph...you don't notice the shape of the frog.
Execellent job with great professional skills......god bless you and team ......pls update me your msil id if we csn think of making project in india with your assistance.....for school children.
NEVER use stainless steel screws with aluminum. The dissimilar metals will cause corrosion, weaken the bolts and can seize them making removal next to impossible
I bought some used aluminum rail from a man in Fl recently and they used stainless screws and bolts and you are correct. I am catching hell trying to remove the flat head, stainless steel fine thread screws from some pieces he used with aluminum flat ties on his driveway. I have soaked all of them with WD-40 multiple times with no luck & now it's just sitting until I decide to mess with it anymore? Same issue with the aluminum diamonds & aluminum pieces at & between the switches & guard rails. The screws/bolts are locked up like they had Loctite & JB Weld used when assembled!
@Vanguard Actual 1 I learned the hard way when repainting an ambulance. The box was aluminum and the screws holding trim were stainless steel, we had to drill almost everyone of them
Me, a 15-year-old, wanting to make a steam loco. My parents: I'VE ALREADY TOLD YOU WE DON'T HAVE 30 GRAND TO SPEND ON A TRAIN!!!
Don’t give up, I’m 60 and have been dreaming of this since I was 10 years old!
Check out the
"Way Out West Blow-in blog" Videos
He gives a clear demonstration of his garden railway system.
Worth watching it.
All the best
Very nicely done. I like your frog, basic but will do the job. At Maricopa Live Steamers in Phoenix, I build all our switches with 2x4 plastic ties and all steel rail. We also make our own frogs out of steel which will last decades. Our points are milled 1" C-channel. It take me 6 hrs to build one but takes 5 hrs prep work for all the parts used. We used aluminum rail and frogs for years until we realized the flange wear made the track wide gauge and unusable. I was replacing switches every 6 years. With 540 switches, this is an impossible task. Moving to steel rail is cheaper in the long run for our climate and environment. Thank you for the video and detailed description.
Switch Builder, if I may ask,,,where do you get steel rail, my google searches have not been sucessful,,,tks
Have been to Maricopa. That's a public operation that sees considerably more traffic than backyard railroads. Public clubs also have the fin'l resources to afford...steel rail (which can cost about the same as aluminum), but plastic ties are expensive. And completed steel rail on plastic ties turnout is also considerably heavier than aluminum rail on wood ties. But you're right...the prep work takes time. Doing as much prep work on the front end, makes the final assembly go faster and easier. And for an old-er mans hobby, the more work you can do on a table fixture is better than getting down on hands and knees on the ground. Thanks for your comment.
M.O.W. videos are the bomb, Hope to see more. Just watching aggrevates my tennis elbow from years of tamping ballast.
I’ve seen so many of these and have never realized how much work goes into them. I found this video very interesting and I enjoyed watching it. Thanks for the great video!
The assembly of the turnout is very mechanical in nature. The true art is designing the turnout based on the angle or radius of the diverging track.
@@carlbaskin270 Thank you for sharing
Literally everyone else: Switch Track
Me, who grew up on British terminology: ....Points....
Why dont people say points
Nathalie Wilson whats the point? Lol
Actually, the entire assembly is known as a "turnout". The "switch" or "points" refer to the movable part of the assembly. Although most people just call this a switch. Carl B.
Why don’t people say points?
@@user-qp2nk9qm8w ... sorry for the delay Jose. Can't really answer your question other than to say, most people don't know proper terminology for the various components that make up a turnout. When approaching a turnout, the "points" are used to change the traffic direction, or switch tracks. Hence, most people simply refer to the entire piece of trackwork as "a switch".
We have a little homestead and I’m looking to eventually build a simple track to help move feed so we’re not tearing up the yard driving the truck up to the pens (and it’s just way more fun). The current plan will definitely require at least one switch, possibly two or three, so this was very helpful!
We’re potentially looking at 7.5” gauge, 3.75” scale (two-foot-gauge prototype) so my fiancé can sit with his legs inside; he dislikes straddling with motorcycle pegs.
That's basically what I'm doing on my ranch. For a similar reason. (Not for feed specifically, but because the way my 20 acres is laid out, a 'walking' path is more practical and better for the natural vegetation and drainage to get from the house to the greenhouse (Which has to be further away because septic field), and to the rainwater catch-pond (ALSO far from the house because septic field). And also I don't feel like making 30 trips between the greenhouse and the catch-pond every week, or doing the damage that dragging a 500 gallon water trailer 3 times a week would do, when I can take the train out with 30 water tankers and do the same thing all in one 250' long consist on Saturday. (And then the rest of the week use other trackworks to just drive around and do 'yardwork' on the rest of the acreage)
@@NikkiTheOtter
Yeah, septic fields are annoying to work around. I’m only on five acres, but we get, give or take, about thirty fifty-pound bags of feed every month and keep it in metal barrels. It’s definitely _easier_ to just use the truck, but a train would do less damage to the grass and again would be a lot more fun~
Do you have any advice or suggestions? I’m still new to the live steam hobby and still getting my bearings on what to go for and avoid.
@@Naro_Rivers Honestly, you've probably got as much experience in the train side of things as I do. All my experience is in radio controlled cars and planes. (Which means a train should be MIND-NUMBINGLY easy for me to build and operate, but real life sometimes sneaks in little differences.)
Great video! That tie drilling rig is pretty cool! Have to remember that one! This has to be one of the best if not the best 7.5" gauge turnout construction videos on RUclips (there's a few). Thanks for sharing.
Usually when I build a switch, I just walk outside and go into my backyard. I find the thickest tree with the thinnest branches. Then I pluck the branch with the longest single segment gap between small branches. I then take this branch, peel the skin, and gently break in even increments partly through the branch. The branch at this point would be a switch. Perfect for keeping those nephews in check.
Your switch was good, too. Need to make some of those kind myself.
That was really interesting! Hope you're safe!
It’s important to have a great narrator!
When I was 50 years old, I would make many train tracks, many locomotives, carriages,
I would very much like to see a plan or better a video on how to build that drill jig for drilling the ties to gauge. That will also save a ton of time building track panels.
Great video. The maintenance and build content is so informative. Thank you.
Thinking behind not using washers under the screw heads? Even though I use #10 hex head sheet metal screws I always used a washer under the head. That gave the rails a little less friction to fight to allow the rails to expand and contract. Like Switchbuilder1949, I made my frogs, for the most part, out of steel. Wish I had had steel rail but none was available almost 45 years ago. They were built of plates of steel cut to the frog angle. Then rectangular stock was used for the running and guard rail parts of it. All welded together. The base was then drilled in place to fasten to the ties. When finished, installed, and tested, they were given a coat of Chevron Pinion Grease MS. Even after all these years, they have not rusted due to the coating. It actually pulls itself into any gaps.
I've been doing research with an eye toward building a 7.5" railroad in our yard in our retirement... The general consensus is that steel frogs and points are advisable. There's a few companies online that sell turnout point rails machined from 1" tall steel rail, and welded up frogs in a number of frog angles (one company does cast steel frogs too). They're more expensive than aluminum equivalents, but at least wearing them out is never a concern.
@@WHJeffB Some people do not like steel frogs as they can damage softer cast iron wheels. Those people use Aluminum frogs but then find that the harder cast iron wheels wear out the tips of the frog in fairly rapid succession. Railroads use a very hard frog with steel wheels for a reason, maintenance costs. Wheels are easy to change out or re-machine. Frogs are something that takes a lot of work to replace.
@@WHJeffB which companies?
Great video! Can you do a tutorial on rail for curved sections?
Yes
Interesting timing. I spent yesterday building a batch of much smaller #7 turnouts. Mine are only 16.5mm gauge but the principles are the same. I was a little surprised to see such a thin switchpoint. Surely that is going to wear quickly. Wouldn't it be better to mill one from rail?
Good observation. You bring up several point. Materials selected are based on cost and ease of machining. Have built turnouts using both 1x1x 1/8" hot rolled angle and stainless steel. Stainless takes a bit more time to machine. At the the tip of the point, the 1/8" angle is machined to 1/16 thick over an approx. 5" distance. Due to the angle of the switch point to the stock rail, the actual distance where a wheel is only on the edge of the angle is relatively short. Wear is not as bad as you think it is. There are people that will machine a point (usually steel) to a knife edge. Yes, I've seen those wear and break. Rate or wear will be dependent on the amount of rail traffic the point sees.
@@carlbaskin270 One of the things I tried way back was using steel for the points and then using a high Nickel content rod to build up just the tip. Points never wore but some people complained about their wheels being damaged by the impacts. Solved that by notching the rails slightly so the tip of the point lined up with the inside head of the rail.
Excellent job.
Congratulations.
Very impressive and tutorial movie! With my compliments! Cheers Fabrizio
Thanks to you for sharing!
big help! ima think about getting a live steam railroad!
I have an apartment on Chemin de Villard, 1007 Lausanne Switzerland above the Gare, and you can feel the rumble from trains.
It would be interesting to try some of this with new 3D printed plastics. Some of the smaller parts could be replaced. You are using aluminum and there are some new fibers out now that are as strong as aluminum.
This is really cool how you all built this turn out. My question I have is, with all the weight and friction and movement that goes through how often do you check the screws that hold down the the rails?
Once the screws are down, there isn’t a big issue with them coming loose. The screws will become loose when the ties begin to age and deteriorate as the wood rots (you’re talking about 10+ years of service). At that point, you replace the tie and just put in new screws.
@@TheSteamChannel Many even in our climate in South Florida will last 30 or more years.
Awesome!!love that style frog
Great work 👍
Nicely done! Curious as to not why use regular rail for the switch points.
It's a pretty involved machining process to mill switch points (and frogs for that matter) and you need a pretty good sized mill to do it. Prototype switch points are planed, but not many 7.25"/7.5" gauge home shops will have a planer, much less one big enough to do this operation.
Why? Cost vs time. I've heard of some operations machining prototypic points...7 operations. And then, while the point knife edge looks impressive, those typically don't last long under heavy train traffic.
Interesseting video, thumbs up :)
Yay Carl!!!!
Thanx Mark.
The switch rails we would machine the frogs to a tapper as to using angle for the point change blades
Great installation, they made it look easy. Do they use treated lumber. Be safe and Bless you all.
Different clubs and track owners use different materials. Usually dictated by budget. In the vid, the ties used were treated lumber rated for direct ground contact. Still, the ties should be supported by ballast to facilitate drainage.
Interesting language that they was talking
Really enjoyed this. Most helpful. Could you tell me the width and depth of the flange-ways?
Without getting too technical, flange ways are specified as 5/16" to 3/8" height and width. Always need to be careful to keep flange ways clear of ballast or other debris.
comments about the switch, good gravey.
5/29/20 12:41p.m.Ok you don't want to rush or out work your work on a job like that you need to know exactly on what you are doing and dealing with you need to work with your team member safely according to the instructions so no one gets hurt so the job can be done safely and also be done nice and neatly and you also really want to take your time so it can come out just perfect and the correct and right way and the Safeway that's also what my step -dad taught me,4:35
I wonder if a Stub type switch be a good idea?
Carl baskin ?! Any relation to carol ?
Not that I'm aware of.
Can you put out a spreadsheet on the tools used and the measuring
What size are the spacer blocks for the guide rail?
Of the gauges used
Sharpen the drills.
No doubt, sharp cutting tools go a long way towards drilling holes easier...but sometimes a tool the cuts TOO WELL, end up producing blood on the job (please don't ask how I know!)
I wonder if anyone has made a concrete tie system yet for the 7.5 rail
Fi Fun You would have to use reinforced concrete using pretensioned steel wires with the raw concrete poured over them in a tie mould during the manufacturering process. Plain unreinforced concrete would crumble and break under the pounding of traffic passing over them.
I believe either Maticopa or the LALS group has made concrete ties.
Do you have any other videos on other switches or crossover switches?
Nice... So how much would the switch sell for?
I don’t recall his exact pricing on these turnouts. Another vender who offers switch kits is charging $800 per kit for a similar #7 switch with some modest quantity discounts. That’s just the kit with instructions to give you some perspective. It’s much cheaper to buy the materials and learn to build yourself.
👍
If I have my #6 switches automated how can I do that
Can i ask, Where did blake get his whistle for the mogul 574?
I don't understand why the frog, and the guard rails weren't predrilled when they had them on the mill for the other operations? For any specific number switch, you know where they are going to be... why not drill them out?
Making those proposed holes in the frog would require more tightly gauging where the ties aligned as assembling the turn out. They may be able to jig that up, but may feel it isn't time effective in this application.
@@cdjhyoung Two more quick operations on the mill could be used to mill slots in the sides of the frog block (one in each side), which would make drilling for the final mounting screw holes a lot easier.
You might be surprised how much lateral movement there is from turnout to turnout. Even with a fixture, you can't build the turnout so tight that it won't come out of the fixture. Will add, by the time the turnout is "planted" in a railroad, things have already moved around quite a bit. Bottom line, some operations are best done during the time of assembly.
Pretty lady, mechanical engineering and steampower...
Be still my beating heart
Н
So what is the cost for the switch?
We build and rehab number 9, 11, 15, 20, and 24 turnouts on the railroad and I wish it was simplified like that.
Know what you're talking about. Out of school, worked for a short bit for Amtrak. Was stationed up in the Northeast Corridor, where the turnouts were even LONGER. Don't recall the turnout number, but those were "high speed" turnouts so trains could be moved from track to track without slowing down too much.
Where can you get the rails from? Because I'm looking to build my own railroad
jeffrey monroe Midwest Scale Rail
@@TheSteamChannel Thanks for that! Been trying to find a supplier for rail for a while.
Why are the switch points made of angle iron and not running rail?
While working perfectly, that frog looks awful.
A great touch would be to manufacture switch plates, that would make the turnout look authentic. Granted a lot of work.
When you’re building your turnouts, you can build them however you’d like.
The frog was intended to be "functional". A bar of aluminum was readily available. It does the job and when you roll over the frog at 5 to 7 mph...you don't notice the shape of the frog.
@@TheSteamChannel Bam!... there that is!
Шпалы пропитывать надо! А так все хорошо!
Execellent job with great professional skills......god bless you and team ......pls update me your msil id if we csn think of making project in india with your assistance.....for school children.
Are they trying to beat somebody's speed record?
The footage was sped up-otherwise you’d be here for 1.5 to 2 hours 😉
Good one! Would be a dream in the large scale railroading hobby if we could build turnouts in 15 minutes!
NEVER use stainless steel screws with aluminum. The dissimilar metals will cause corrosion, weaken the bolts and can seize them making removal next to impossible
The club has been building switches like this for 30 years and has never had a problem…
I bought some used aluminum rail from a man in Fl recently and they used stainless screws and bolts and you are correct. I am catching hell trying to remove the flat head, stainless steel fine thread screws from some pieces he used with aluminum flat ties on his driveway. I have soaked all of them with WD-40 multiple times with no luck & now it's just sitting until I decide to mess with it anymore? Same issue with the aluminum diamonds & aluminum pieces at & between the switches & guard rails. The screws/bolts are locked up like they had Loctite & JB Weld used when assembled!
@Vanguard Actual 1 I learned the hard way when repainting an ambulance. The box was aluminum and the screws holding trim were stainless steel, we had to drill almost everyone of them