@@thegitgudgrrl Mightiest Demigod of the Shattering being defeated by a rusty poop knife faster than what's canonically capable of killing full gods is dumb.
Marika must have really hated the Gloam-Eyed Queen (or Melina if you believe they’re the same person) for her to not only hide the Land of Shadows from the rest of the world, but also nerf the power of Destined Death there, AND even remove content related to her from the game entirely, lol
It's basically confirmed that Melina is Marikas daughter and Messmer's younger sister as she is indirectly mentioned in a key item you get from beating Messmer Messmer's Kindling: "The kindling that burned inside Messmer the Impaler. A dark thing, eaten away at by a wicked serpent. Burns the sealing tree said to be found at the old Rauh ruins. Messmer, much like his younger sister, bore a vision of fire." This basically rules out Melina as the Gloameyed Queen as the Gloameyed Queen was a fellow Empyrean (Of possible Numen descend) and a competitor to Marika
@@_Chaosnight_There’s nothing there that precludes Melina from being both a daughter of Marika and an Empyrean. The only other Empyreans (Ranni, Malenia, and Miquelle) are all also children of Marika.
^ these are the same people that dislike anything somewhat viable. Still find it hypocritical that people hated comet azur but praise the Euporia buff despite being essentially the same. Except azur needed a setup without getting hit. Yet both have you basically stand still and fire a 1-2 shot beam at your enemy.
@chaosinfernoid9008 so its automatically overpowered because a MAGE doesnt have to get into MELEE with an enemy. There's that good ol Anti- Magic bias the community has again. Also using it against anything in actual combat without summons or allies requires pretty decent knowledge of spacing. Its a death beam maybe but the enemy can just step slightly out of the way while you are pinned in place for a pretty long time afterwards.. Not only can you move somewhat with the Euporia weapon art, it can Track and move in other direction. But sure, keep going off about how Azur was cheap.
@@TheDarkEnigmaumm excuse me. What are you smoking? "Dislike something somehwat viable" bruh those thorns MELT EVERYTHING even after the nerf ive seen it one shot players and kill bosses in loke 5 hits. That is far beyond someehat viable. Where as black blade incantation does less frigging damage than adula's moonblade. You cannot tell me with a straight face that that makes sense. And comet azur and eporia are not the same in the slightest. You cant spam eporia endlessly and comet does more damage. Both are still oo as they are situational. Cheesing mogh is cheap tho
It was already too weak in the base game tbh. This nerf is stupid. I get why they did it, it's to make sure people can't summon 6 phantoms with Blackflame Tornado again to melt everything in 3 seconds, but it's just a bad way to balance things.
@@johndang897 I'm more bothered about the lore rather than balance at this point where everyone's build is the same spam, I just find it stupid that the "God killing flame" is 65% LESS effective against GODS wtf.
Yeah, I have about 46 faith or so (just enough to use the incant) and I got a measly 600 damage with it, pretty sure it was a headshot too... Ooohhh, and meanwhile I get to watch all my favorite streamers and even people who have never played the game before scream and cry tears of joy as they easily steamroll the entire DLC and base game with Rivers of Blood (which to this day still has yet to receive full power of a true Fromsoft Nerf)
Nah, that happened to me with bale, in 3 or 4 fights with him he never got any damage aside the base hit. I had 80 faith with the Seal of the order which has S scaling with faith. It felt like a joke.
I don't think there's a lore reason, it's much more likely FromSoft just nerfed them in the DLC to make it harder, because they often get weird ass ideas like this and it's just par for the course.
Other non-living beings like undead and constructs are also effected by the black flame and destined death so that rules this theory out It's probably just a gameplay thing, Fromsoft wanted player's to actually fight them like they intended which is why they made them immune to black flame, destined death and all status effects to prevent people from cheesing them, especially the armored variant that has a completely different approach
I think the Golems are immune because it's just a gameplay thing, they want people to properly fight them like they intended so they made them immune to black flame, destined death and all status effects to prevent people from cheesing them
yet some ppl just spam magic and incantion from a top of mountain and stuff...completely trivialize the fight...this is just overall a really bad nerf..wtf
I originally used black flames because i play a pyro knight and switched to ghost flame with helphen's steeple because it actually did way better against him. Even though black ritual ticks like crazy against big bosses. I actually did that for quite a few bosses because the black flame felt too weak in many cases.
Oh that's perfect Fromsoftware! That's what we needed this whole time, godslaying and destined death getting nerfed😂. This makes me glad I deleted my godslaying Build. Maybe instead of screwing us over, fix stuff like the enemy hp thing in co op where they randomly recover from hits dealt.
Yeah, basically I agree with everybody.In this comment section. They did this weapon and basically everything else that does destined death damage just way dirty, way too dirty. Like honestly , really just doesn't make sense, bleed is still completely overpowered and BROKEN (everyone that used Bloodfiend Creep bleed hammer to cheese thru the game Im looking at you) but somehow for this we get like a top priority exclusive nerf
Because using a weapon and a built in status effect cheesing the game? What next, the old 'mages arent playing the game properly ' argument again? The only reason people can even act it was cheesing is cause they complained and the devs caved and weakened it. Using an in game mechanic in a build or creative wat IS NOT CHEESING
@@TheDarkEnigmalotta words to say u missed the point. why tf are blackflame builds fucked over, when nearly every other build got a buff, and only some were balanced.
@@blackmail2459 because blackflame shouldn't be screwed over in the first place. Blaming everything else because another thing isnt as good is a pretty reductive viewpoint and misses the core issue that some things are decent and others arent up to snuff. If you dont like how weak something is, complain about it and try to get it buffed instead of dragging everything else down to its level. Seriously, you could beat the games with the weakest equipment in the game and someone out there would be offended and call it cheesing.
While i also disagree with the approach, Fromsoft without a doubt did this to pump up the difficulty. Plain and simply. There is no lore justification. It is simply a lazy way to prevent certain builds from having a slightly easier time of things.
I also disagree with the decision but only as far as my belief that the negation percent is too high, SOTE bosses need to be slightly more resistant to percent damage cause of their really high health pools and damage negation.
So you want them to not only be health sponges but physical sponges too? That just seems like a challenge mode mindset and not a normal player mindset.
@@TheDarkEnigma I don't think you know how to read very well, or at the very least you failed to read my comment properly. I never said nor implied anything remotely similar to what you are accusing me of. In fact my complaint with fromsoft's decision is very clearly the opposite of "wanting bosses to be physical sponges". I call it lazy because there are way better ways of increasing difficulty than making bosses nearly immune to certain damage types with zero lore explanations or visual cues. Im very clearly saying stacking a bosses damage negation in such a way is a _bad_ thing...
It makes sense in a way because they deal percentage damage, so it would be a way around the scadutree fragments, but still I don’t really like the concept of them doing that
This is crazy because I went back to my favorite build for the DLC which was a Godskin build in which I set a rule for myself that all bosses must be killed using a black flame attack.
Furnace golems are immune for the same reason they are killed with fire pots. The reason is - None. Miyazaki just did another inconsistent mechanic. Its the voices that make him do this. The same voices that prohibit him from uncapping 60 fps, adding widescreen support or letting PC players remap all of buttons, instead of using button combos like we dont have 100 spare keys
Bleed and Frost still murder bosses with their HP% damage on proc unchanged, but the okay-ish Destined Death HP drain effect gets nerfed?!? Feels like a forced difficulty initiative thats not even applied across all the board, making an already mid school of magic worse, while the arguably OP status effect builds remain extremely strong.
I literally just left a comment about this in another video. It really seems like they need to pay attention to this weapon because it quickly went from being one of the top 10 best weapons in the game to not even in the top 10 anymore. And I feel like they actually did this back when they nerfed it originally separating pVP from p.V.E (iirc that is when Destined Death and Black Blade incant damage was lowered, by a LOT) I could see why they did it before the DLC released Because I could one shot players in PVP with just one L2, but I think now they have enough new Ashes of war and new weapons that this weapon isn't completely overpowered and HOPEFULLY they can show it some love to at least bring it back to being at least CLOSE to the top ten weapons in the game as it used to be... And it's especially bad when you realize that malakiff's black blade is a weapon that you get very VERY late game in the original base game. (Edit: I actually realized in writing this, Instead of overnerfing the weapon and quickly making it useless, they actually gave it a slow death by a 1000 cuts with each update, gradually making it worse)
Destined death i knew, but my boi black flame nerfed? 😭(It still did very well against flame weak scadutree avatar tho, but perhaps a regular fireball would have been better in this case)
I literally hate how everything gets nerfed unecessarily when bleed functions the way it does. Like it removes incentive to try other stuff when bleed does so much damage. ☹️
The entire reason for ST fragments is forced difficulty for the sake of not allowing high level players to steam roll the DLC. Occam's razor says they nerfed black flame and destined death for the same reason.
This is the only right answer. It's just making sure people can't Fextra more broken builds, summon two other players who also have the same builds, and then melt everything in two seconds with percentage DOT. And I agree with that design choice.
@@Rusty_Spy In the base game, proper DOT is far more powerful than bleed. You can melt Malenia or the Elden Beast so fast with Blackflame Tornado for example. But in the DLC, it's just trash.
Black flame and destined death should only affect living organic beings, the guardian golems and furnace golems should both be immune since they’re not alive, just animate. As for Those Who Live in Death? (Undead) that’d be a confusing mess to balance for the lore, and I’d argue it should affect them since theyre both alive and dead, so maybe have them be less affected by them. Edit: I guess you could count the Albanurics to be immune too, since they’re not natural beings.
I really noticed this, my to-go spell for bosses with my dlc profile was a faith/dexterity/strenght build, always starting with destined death for free damage. But i noticed that some bosses and even regular enemies got a damage reduction but this glitch them to sometimes don't even get the lifebar reduction and not even getting constant damage from the flame. I even thought bale was immune to Destined Death until i tried out again while being a phantom.
There really isn't a way to explain it. Wickermen aren't living creatures, but neither are golems. Radahn is getting boosted by Miquella, but holy magic doesn't inherently provide protection to black flame. Everyone else is within similar tiers to the enemies we fight in the base game. If I had to guess what the issue is, I'd say that the burn effect from black flame and destined death share a damage ID in the damage tables, so when From went to nerf destined death (since it's a powerful effect against these high hp enemies), black flame got caught in the crossfire.
Nah they just did that to make the game/dlc artificially difficult. Weird considering bleed/frost/rot who all do % damage at all did not receive a similar treatment.
well tbh if u really are trying melt bosses...black flame is alot stronger than destined death lol...they do more dps and way way faster...like black flame tornado for example
@@rhythmmandal3377 Faith builds always get shafted for no reason. In lore black flame is supposed to be a god killing weapon and the devs thought that nerfing it would make sense…..
As much as I'd like to believe FromSoft did this only for lore reasons, the fact it only applies to bosses and that there don't seem to be any item descriptions aludign to why these would function differently in the land of shadow inclines me to believe it was done entirely as nerfing the player to make the bosses tougher. That said, it is maybe strange other forms of percentile based danage like bleed and scarlet rot weren't similarly nearfed. Although in the case of both of those FromSoft already had the option to just give the DLC bosses higher resistances to make it harder to proc those effects which is otherwise consistent with the base game.
the golems not really being alive makes sense, but just randomly nerfing the effects on just the 4 major bosses just reeks of "do not give the players an INCH" despite that one shot builds exist, still do, wont go away, and yet they nerf niche spells that are gimmicks at best, nice gimmicks though!
I’m assuming this was likely a gameplay issue - 2.5 percent plus scadutree buffing might have been a bit much when they tested it. Some things are still OP though so idk.
It was likely stealth nerfed because of the large HP pools new bosses have. Seems silly though considering how effective bleed is on just about everything but fromsoft has always had a weird sense of balance
It just removes cheese tactics using that stuff. Keep in mind destined death effects and black flame still have base damage that isn't reduced. It'd make sense to removes ways of dealing with health sponges though I do question the necessity of all these health sponges to begin with
I'm in agreement with those who think they nerfed them to make the bosses harder. they didn't want strong builds from the base game (except bleed for some reason) to just walk through the dlc. just like nerfing the envoy horn damage and the poise damage from darkmoon GS or the knockdown effect from blasphemous blade.
Beyond tired of dealing with trash, just because of what the "developer" wants. I don't play games to please the developers. They need to check themselves.
between the constant fun policing from the devs (and mainly the community honestly ) via nerfs and the general arrogance of the community since elden rings initial release,, i'm genuinely considering just quitting playing souls games after finishing the dlc. And its not like im a 'noob' or 'casual' since ive played every souls since og demon souls and a ton of souls likes (the more well known ones being the surge,lies of p, steel rising.etc, not to mention the all you can eat buffet in the steam store.) ive been heavily into the genre for like 14 years at this point. I dunno i think its just that i dont feel like my time spent is being rewarded with respect by the devs or the community and some of the dlc bosses feel almost spiteful towards the player base, but you arent allowed to complain otherwise you are just 'getting filtered ' or automatically 'always sucked at the game' I dont know if its just me but has anyone else had a similar 'epiphany ' like feeling with this recently?
Most likely yes that's probably it, which is kinda dumb since even the damn pest threads can easily cheese the golems even easier than black flame tornado probably can. It is so slow at getting out you would get hit immediately where with pest threads you can get around 3 attacks off with each one hitting both legs if timed right which drops them extremely fast doing decent damage in the process & providing an opening for a critical hit. Sounds kinda dumb thinking about pest threads being better than a god killing black flame and destined death doesn't it lol. Note* Edited for noticed typo
black flame and destined death nerf in the dlc is disgusting. And why only nerf that and not bleed/frost. Just another of many reasons why I think this is one of Fromsoft's worst dlc.
Huh... I thought Black Flame wasn't hitting as hard as it used to. Nice to see that confirmed. It's almost certainly a balancing decision. These attacks applying a %-based hp drain means that you can basically ignore all powerscaling. With the Golems, it's obviously just a means to force players to engage with their mechanic, they're simply immune to all percentage based sources of damage, you can't bleed, rot, poison or freeze them either. With everything else, I really think the devs just figured that they'd given players way too much power with these effects and wanted to stop them from trivializing what were supposed to be the hardest fights in the game.
this is the worst nerf i ever heard....wtf this just basically make incantation like black flame blade that is already so bad...to even worst...wtf fromsoftware
Why TF did they nerf it without nerf u need to throw blackflame like 50 times to kill bosses anyways 😂 seriously and they let bleed domore dmg WTF is they thinking
are you hacking? spell at 0:15 doesnt exist in game, im confused to how u use it? the centaur cruicible from that knight doesnt exist lol, so im confused how u have it
Really now? Destined death helped me ALOT with messmer,metyr and radahn. With Bayle I melted him with rot breath but my mimic was dealing some damage with destined death.
I think it is completely fine, and I support it. Some bosses have 80% reduction against some physical or elemental damage. Some bosses are 80% resistance to stance damage. Some bosses take 2 or 3 parries before riposte. You might call them ''forced difficulty'' as well, but they're literally just incremental difficulty. It is a fair approach, it isn't applied to every single boss, it is a good way to prevent "ace cards that will trample every boss", it is a good incentive to adding variety to your build or trying new things. It is always great and I love to have lore attached to the reason behind the special resistances (and weakness too, like Fallen Starbeast getting stance broken on 1 attack if you hit the head while it is charging). But, Fromsoftware should never need lore as an excuse when they're trying to "even out the difficulty for every build" across bosses as a whole.
Get that, Destined Death deals Fire Damage, which was even buffed in the Dlc. Also they want you to use the new things and not cheese with % Based things that are really buffable.
Insane they thought to nerf two slow incantations but bleed still melts everything for no reason.
Everything that bleeds should bleed
@@thegitgudgrrl Magic that’s made for killing Gods should kill Gods better than bleeding does
@@thegitgudgrrl Mightiest Demigod of the Shattering being defeated by a rusty poop knife faster than what's canonically capable of killing full gods is dumb.
@@thegitgudgrrleverything that kills gods should kill gods better than some random shitty dagger
Not anymore. They just nerfed that into the dirt too. I don't know how we are sitting in 2024, with games getting outperformed in every way by DS3.
They nerfed it so much that it's not brought up even once in a DLC that's all about Death.
For us: it's destined death
For the dlc: it's more of like a bothersome illness.
Marika must have really hated the Gloam-Eyed Queen (or Melina if you believe they’re the same person) for her to not only hide the Land of Shadows from the rest of the world, but also nerf the power of Destined Death there, AND even remove content related to her from the game entirely, lol
It's basically confirmed that Melina is Marikas daughter and Messmer's younger sister as she is indirectly mentioned in a key item you get from beating Messmer
Messmer's Kindling:
"The kindling that burned inside Messmer the Impaler.
A dark thing, eaten away at by a wicked serpent.
Burns the sealing tree said to be found at the old Rauh ruins.
Messmer, much like his younger sister, bore a vision of fire."
This basically rules out Melina as the Gloameyed Queen as the Gloameyed Queen was a fellow Empyrean (Of possible Numen descend) and a competitor to Marika
@@_Chaosnight_There’s nothing there that precludes Melina from being both a daughter of Marika and an Empyrean. The only other Empyreans (Ranni, Malenia, and Miquelle) are all also children of Marika.
@@_Chaosnight_Where in the lore does it say that the Gloam Eyed Queen was a numen women from Marika’s tribe?
@@crackededge9351 I said possibly she could be Numen
@@LordPyro25 She isn't an Empyrean as she has no potential for Godhood, Melina's fate is to burn the Erdtree and die while doing it
It did? I used Black Flame to kill BAAAYLE!
Please don't kick me of a ledge
@@kim-xo: 😈
VILE BAAAAYLE
CURSE YOU BAAAAAYLE!
These are the same people that added impenetrable thorns
^ these are the same people that dislike anything somewhat viable.
Still find it hypocritical that people hated comet azur but praise the Euporia buff despite being essentially the same. Except azur needed a setup without getting hit. Yet both have you basically stand still and fire a 1-2 shot beam at your enemy.
@@TheDarkEnigma
What with Azur you don't even need to touch the enemy?
@chaosinfernoid9008 so its automatically overpowered because a MAGE doesnt have to get into MELEE with an enemy.
There's that good ol Anti- Magic bias the community has again.
Also using it against anything in actual combat without summons or allies requires pretty decent knowledge of spacing. Its a death beam maybe but the enemy can just step slightly out of the way while you are pinned in place for a pretty long time afterwards.. Not only can you move somewhat with the Euporia weapon art, it can Track and move in other direction. But sure, keep going off about how Azur was cheap.
@@TheDarkEnigmaumm excuse me. What are you smoking? "Dislike something somehwat viable" bruh those thorns MELT EVERYTHING even after the nerf ive seen it one shot players and kill bosses in loke 5 hits. That is far beyond someehat viable. Where as black blade incantation does less frigging damage than adula's moonblade. You cannot tell me with a straight face that that makes sense. And comet azur and eporia are not the same in the slightest. You cant spam eporia endlessly and comet does more damage. Both are still oo as they are situational. Cheesing mogh is cheap tho
@@simon-peterwilliamson2412 point proven. Heard a comment you disagreed with and started making excuses.
I get nerfing powerful things to make sure the dlc isn’t ran over but…idk about making things nigh obsolete to make sure they are difficult
New fromsoft design for you.
Blame the community crying out about things they dont like that dont even affect 90% of them.
Sick of the Elden Rimmers at this point
Bad nerf black flames and destined death needs huge buff
@@belial1821 Especially for lore reasons.
It was already too weak in the base game tbh. This nerf is stupid. I get why they did it, it's to make sure people can't summon 6 phantoms with Blackflame Tornado again to melt everything in 3 seconds, but it's just a bad way to balance things.
Nah it’s cheese, I remember helping for placidusax 10 times and these scrubs only spammed black blade and nothing else and won. They barely dodged.
@@johndang897Maliketh’s Black Blade is not cheese at all. Specifically solo. Nowhere even close to the level of bleed, or rot.
@@johndang897 I'm more bothered about the lore rather than balance at this point where everyone's build is the same spam, I just find it stupid that the "God killing flame" is 65% LESS effective against GODS wtf.
I entered the dlc as a maliketh cosplay and left as a bleed build lmao
SAME XD
The scadu tree avatar isn't affected by destined death AT ALL. Doesn't even do base damage to it
Yeah, I have about 46 faith or so (just enough to use the incant) and I got a measly 600 damage with it, pretty sure it was a headshot too... Ooohhh, and meanwhile I get to watch all my favorite streamers and even people who have never played the game before scream and cry tears of joy as they easily steamroll the entire DLC and base game with Rivers of Blood (which to this day still has yet to receive full power of a true Fromsoft Nerf)
Huh, that's weird I thought I remembered using the black knife against the avatar and it working just fine
@@dalekin3177 well lucky you then because Destined Death incantation did 0 for me
@@TheTerribleIvan could be some weird thing where they are coded differently
Nah, that happened to me with bale, in 3 or 4 fights with him he never got any damage aside the base hit. I had 80 faith with the Seal of the order which has S scaling with faith. It felt like a joke.
FromSoft does not know what we want, they don't even know what they want.
ngl they kinda missing themselves in this dlc lol
In the end they're laughing on the way to the bank. They're laughing at us.
Amazing that they nerf 2 mid incantations and keep all the toxic cancer cheese weapons untouched
Ah yes, the flame meant to kill gods is resisted by a god. 🙄 Fucking Fromsoft.
I don't think there's a lore reason, it's much more likely FromSoft just nerfed them in the DLC to make it harder, because they often get weird ass ideas like this and it's just par for the course.
For the golems i tought it was most likely because they arent alive at all
Other non-living beings like undead and constructs are also effected by the black flame and destined death so that rules this theory out
It's probably just a gameplay thing, Fromsoft wanted player's to actually fight them like they intended which is why they made them immune to black flame, destined death and all status effects to prevent people from cheesing them, especially the armored variant that has a completely different approach
@@_Chaosnight_ mmm wierd
I think the Golems are immune because it's just a gameplay thing, they want people to properly fight them like they intended so they made them immune to black flame, destined death and all status effects to prevent people from cheesing them
yet some ppl just spam magic and incantion from a top of mountain and stuff...completely trivialize the fight...this is just overall a really bad nerf..wtf
You can cheese them pretty easily except maybe 2? And I don’t think for the ones you need pots for, it’s a proper fight...
Not pest thread spears just obliterating anything larger than the size of a dog
I guess that explains why my black knife tiche felt so damn weak on the dlc even though she carried me base game in the hardest bosses
The artificial difficulty forced difficulty is a really disingenuous way to do things. Same with the ridiculous hit boxes of boss attacks
I KNEW IT!! I was getting more damage from counter attacks than destined death, that melted big bosses like Placidusax but did nothing to Bayle.
I originally used black flames because i play a pyro knight and switched to ghost flame with helphen's steeple because it actually did way better against him. Even though black ritual ticks like crazy against big bosses. I actually did that for quite a few bosses because the black flame felt too weak in many cases.
Oh that's perfect Fromsoftware! That's what we needed this whole time, godslaying and destined death getting nerfed😂. This makes me glad I deleted my godslaying Build. Maybe instead of screwing us over, fix stuff like the enemy hp thing in co op where they randomly recover from hits dealt.
Yeah, basically I agree with everybody.In this comment section. They did this weapon and basically everything else that does destined death damage just way dirty, way too dirty. Like honestly , really just doesn't make sense, bleed is still completely overpowered and BROKEN (everyone that used Bloodfiend Creep bleed hammer to cheese thru the game Im looking at you) but somehow for this we get like a top priority exclusive nerf
Because using a weapon and a built in status effect cheesing the game?
What next, the old 'mages arent playing the game properly ' argument again?
The only reason people can even act it was cheesing is cause they complained and the devs caved and weakened it. Using an in game mechanic in a build or creative wat IS NOT CHEESING
@@TheDarkEnigmalotta words to say u missed the point. why tf are blackflame builds fucked over, when nearly every other build got a buff, and only some were balanced.
@@blackmail2459 because blackflame shouldn't be screwed over in the first place. Blaming everything else because another thing isnt as good is a pretty reductive viewpoint and misses the core issue that some things are decent and others arent up to snuff.
If you dont like how weak something is, complain about it and try to get it buffed instead of dragging everything else down to its level.
Seriously, you could beat the games with the weakest equipment in the game and someone out there would be offended and call it cheesing.
While i also disagree with the approach, Fromsoft without a doubt did this to pump up the difficulty. Plain and simply. There is no lore justification. It is simply a lazy way to prevent certain builds from having a slightly easier time of things.
I also disagree with the decision but only as far as my belief that the negation percent is too high, SOTE bosses need to be slightly more resistant to percent damage cause of their really high health pools and damage negation.
So you want them to not only be health sponges but physical sponges too? That just seems like a challenge mode mindset and not a normal player mindset.
@@TheDarkEnigma I don't think you know how to read very well, or at the very least you failed to read my comment properly. I never said nor implied anything remotely similar to what you are accusing me of. In fact my complaint with fromsoft's decision is very clearly the opposite of "wanting bosses to be physical sponges".
I call it lazy because there are way better ways of increasing difficulty than making bosses nearly immune to certain damage types with zero lore explanations or visual cues. Im very clearly saying stacking a bosses damage negation in such a way is a _bad_ thing...
@@addictiontransfer3731 so you proceed to insult me out of the gate. And expect me to read the rest?
K. Peace
@@TheDarkEnigma you didnt read my comment in the first place you goober!! lol
It makes sense in a way because they deal percentage damage, so it would be a way around the scadutree fragments, but still I don’t really like the concept of them doing that
And that’s exactly what I mean by „artificially harder“. It’s unnecessary, given the fact it is outclassed by so many still broken dlc stuff.
Everything about the dlc is forced difficultly, from super mobility, to infinite combos to aoe every hit, it mega hitboxes.
This is crazy because I went back to my favorite build for the DLC which was a Godskin build in which I set a rule for myself that all bosses must be killed using a black flame attack.
yeah i had my godskin build for all of main game but i changed up in the dlc so i didnt notice them beinged nerfed, sad
Furnace golems are immune for the same reason they are killed with fire pots. The reason is - None. Miyazaki just did another inconsistent mechanic. Its the voices that make him do this. The same voices that prohibit him from uncapping 60 fps, adding widescreen support or letting PC players remap all of buttons, instead of using button combos like we dont have 100 spare keys
Bleed and Frost still murder bosses with their HP% damage on proc unchanged, but the okay-ish Destined Death HP drain effect gets nerfed?!?
Feels like a forced difficulty initiative thats not even applied across all the board, making an already mid school of magic worse, while the arguably OP status effect builds remain extremely strong.
Dude this feels like it was made to make bosses harder without lore explanation. But maybe there could be an explanation?
alot of stuff in that dlc is just weird lol...some felt like created just to fck with ppl lol
I used destined death to kill 4 bosses last night... Works like a charm as usual
Opaqueness and nerf-happy are bad practices!
Yeah, if FromSoft wants to be the next Bungie, I'm not giving them another dime.
I literally just left a comment about this in another video.
It really seems like they need to pay attention to this weapon because it quickly went from being one of the top 10 best weapons in the game to not even in the top 10 anymore. And I feel like they actually did this back when they nerfed it originally separating pVP from p.V.E (iirc that is when Destined Death and Black Blade incant damage was lowered, by a LOT) I could see why they did it before the DLC released Because I could one shot players in PVP with just one L2, but I think now they have enough new Ashes of war and new weapons that this weapon isn't completely overpowered and HOPEFULLY they can show it some love to at least bring it back to being at least CLOSE to the top ten weapons in the game as it used to be... And it's especially bad when you realize that malakiff's black blade is a weapon that you get very VERY late game in the original base game. (Edit: I actually realized in writing this, Instead of overnerfing the weapon and quickly making it useless, they actually gave it a slow death by a 1000 cuts with each update, gradually making it worse)
Destined death i knew, but my boi black flame nerfed? 😭(It still did very well against flame weak scadutree avatar tho, but perhaps a regular fireball would have been better in this case)
Use the grape gun. Hits hard and fast.
I literally hate how everything gets nerfed unecessarily when bleed functions the way it does. Like it removes incentive to try other stuff when bleed does so much damage. ☹️
The entire reason for ST fragments is forced difficulty for the sake of not allowing high level players to steam roll the DLC. Occam's razor says they nerfed black flame and destined death for the same reason.
This is the only right answer. It's just making sure people can't Fextra more broken builds, summon two other players who also have the same builds, and then melt everything in two seconds with percentage DOT. And I agree with that design choice.
It’s to limit leveling for power so that population is less spread out in brackets in multiplayer.
But those effects aren't even that powerful compared to bleed
@@Rusty_Spy In the base game, proper DOT is far more powerful than bleed. You can melt Malenia or the Elden Beast so fast with Blackflame Tornado for example. But in the DLC, it's just trash.
Black flame and destined death should only affect living organic beings, the guardian golems and furnace golems should both be immune since they’re not alive, just animate. As for Those Who Live in Death? (Undead) that’d be a confusing mess to balance for the lore, and I’d argue it should affect them since theyre both alive and dead, so maybe have them be less affected by them.
Edit: I guess you could count the Albanurics to be immune too, since they’re not natural beings.
I really noticed this, my to-go spell for bosses with my dlc profile was a faith/dexterity/strenght build, always starting with destined death for free damage. But i noticed that some bosses and even regular enemies got a damage reduction but this glitch them to sometimes don't even get the lifebar reduction and not even getting constant damage from the flame. I even thought bale was immune to Destined Death until i tried out again while being a phantom.
wow this is outright stupid. genuinely a sad and petty game design decision.
Yeah, I noticed in PvP and PvE that on some bosses, the destined death and blackflame incants were reduced in dmg and weirded me out
There really isn't a way to explain it. Wickermen aren't living creatures, but neither are golems. Radahn is getting boosted by Miquella, but holy magic doesn't inherently provide protection to black flame. Everyone else is within similar tiers to the enemies we fight in the base game.
If I had to guess what the issue is, I'd say that the burn effect from black flame and destined death share a damage ID in the damage tables, so when From went to nerf destined death (since it's a powerful effect against these high hp enemies), black flame got caught in the crossfire.
Nah they just did that to make the game/dlc artificially difficult. Weird considering bleed/frost/rot who all do % damage at all did not receive a similar treatment.
@@rhythmmandal3377 And that's exactly why I think they made a mistake
well tbh if u really are trying melt bosses...black flame is alot stronger than destined death lol...they do more dps and way way faster...like black flame tornado for example
@@kiro253 nobody is talking about melting bosses
@@rhythmmandal3377 Faith builds always get shafted for no reason. In lore black flame is supposed to be a god killing weapon and the devs thought that nerfing it would make sense…..
As much as I'd like to believe FromSoft did this only for lore reasons, the fact it only applies to bosses and that there don't seem to be any item descriptions aludign to why these would function differently in the land of shadow inclines me to believe it was done entirely as nerfing the player to make the bosses tougher.
That said, it is maybe strange other forms of percentile based danage like bleed and scarlet rot weren't similarly nearfed. Although in the case of both of those FromSoft already had the option to just give the DLC bosses higher resistances to make it harder to proc those effects which is otherwise consistent with the base game.
I noticed because I just did a build USING BOTH and I knew something was off!
What weapon is being used @0:30 ?
Fromsoft's balacing is pure trash. There are a lot of op stuff and they nerf black flame...
black knife ashes seems to works as intended but black flame is nerfed to the ground
the golems not really being alive makes sense, but just randomly nerfing the effects
on just the 4 major bosses just reeks of "do not give the players an INCH"
despite that one shot builds exist, still do, wont go away, and yet they nerf
niche spells that are gimmicks at best, nice gimmicks though!
I’m assuming this was likely a gameplay issue - 2.5 percent plus scadutree buffing might have been a bit much when they tested it. Some things are still OP though so idk.
Bro I was weak for a lot of the game, why did they have to nerf my good stuff
It was likely stealth nerfed because of the large HP pools new bosses have. Seems silly though considering how effective bleed is on just about everything but fromsoft has always had a weird sense of balance
Where can I find the lighting sword that you are using in this video? it looks super cool.
That would be a modded weapon they created. Many of the weapons in the video feature things from their overhaul mod.
I think if it did full drain it would just deal a bit to much damage since they have such high health
Now i understand why tiche feels so useless if compared to the base game
Hold up where'd you get that spell you were using in the beginning the one with all the legs
His mod
I BLOODY KNEW IT!
Wait they nerfed it? I was using destined death on most of the bosses except Radahn and the Scadutree it melted everything rather well.
I'm glad I traded defeating Radahn consort to having more sleep time. I chose the latter. DLC bosses will be more tanky than ever to destroy.
It just removes cheese tactics using that stuff. Keep in mind destined death effects and black flame still have base damage that isn't reduced. It'd make sense to removes ways of dealing with health sponges though I do question the necessity of all these health sponges to begin with
Ok so it will still breeze thru them idk why these ppl make it sound like it’s weak now
Am I right
Is that first incantation a mod because running around like a horse is something I’ve never seen before
Black blade takes away 10% of the bosses full health so it’s best to use it as an opener
Hey do you have a mod for the rellana twinblades? Yours keep the passive buff even after the l2 combo. Thanks!
used a black flame build to beat dlc first day so idk if the nerf was active then tbh
I'm in agreement with those who think they nerfed them to make the bosses harder. they didn't want strong builds from the base game (except bleed for some reason) to just walk through the dlc. just like nerfing the envoy horn damage and the poise damage from darkmoon GS or the knockdown effect from blasphemous blade.
Beyond tired of dealing with trash, just because of what the "developer" wants. I don't play games to please the developers. They need to check themselves.
between the constant fun policing from the devs (and mainly the community honestly ) via nerfs and the general arrogance of the community since elden rings initial release,, i'm genuinely considering just quitting playing souls games after finishing the dlc. And its not like im a 'noob' or 'casual' since ive played every souls since og demon souls and a ton of souls likes (the more well known ones being the surge,lies of p, steel rising.etc, not to mention the all you can eat buffet in the steam store.) ive been heavily into the genre for like 14 years at this point.
I dunno i think its just that i dont feel like my time spent is being rewarded with respect by the devs or the community and some of the dlc bosses feel almost spiteful towards the player base, but you arent allowed to complain otherwise you are just 'getting filtered ' or automatically 'always sucked at the game'
I dont know if its just me but has anyone else had a similar 'epiphany ' like feeling with this recently?
Black flame is still cracked in PVE
0:30 may I know what’s that weapon and ash of war? I never seen it before. So cool
Furnace golem is amalgamation of corpses with some form of collective sentience. I thought even if we burn 1 corpse others will be just fine.
All dead ends upp in the shadowlands
Stop nerfs i need strong stuff in ng 8. And up
Since black flame does % damage it could be a way to cheese the golems
Most likely yes that's probably it, which is kinda dumb since even the damn pest threads can easily cheese the golems even easier than black flame tornado probably can. It is so slow at getting out you would get hit immediately where with pest threads you can get around 3 attacks off with each one hitting both legs if timed right which drops them extremely fast doing decent damage in the process & providing an opening for a critical hit.
Sounds kinda dumb thinking about pest threads being better than a god killing black flame and destined death doesn't it lol.
Note* Edited for noticed typo
Well the wicker men arent living beings theyre construct
Damn, I respecced to try something new this dlc, so I thought what I was getting with destined death was normal lmao
Shouldve been a NG+ mechanic
black flame and destined death nerf in the dlc is disgusting. And why only nerf that and not bleed/frost. Just another of many reasons why I think this is one of Fromsoft's worst dlc.
0:27 what weapon is this?
Are you sure? Because black flame is carrying me through the dlc.
How do you make the glowing effect of Rellana twin blades persist like that? 1:40
He seems to have heavily modded things. He blades only glow like that when in stance and executing the ash of war
Is it only black flame and destined death?does this include black knife weapon art?
Probably since black knife deals destined death damage
This is soo stupid it's erasing an entire play style. Makes no sense
what is the weapon and skill used at 0:30?
What is that weapon with the red lightning?
Huh... I thought Black Flame wasn't hitting as hard as it used to. Nice to see that confirmed.
It's almost certainly a balancing decision. These attacks applying a %-based hp drain means that you can basically ignore all powerscaling.
With the Golems, it's obviously just a means to force players to engage with their mechanic, they're simply immune to all percentage based sources of damage, you can't bleed, rot, poison or freeze them either.
With everything else, I really think the devs just figured that they'd given players way too much power with these effects and wanted to stop them from trivializing what were supposed to be the hardest fights in the game.
They didn't want somebody to cheese their 37th Erdtree spirit of the run.
lame
Commender Gaius would disagree with you😂
Whats that red lightning ash of war?
FR!? My Black Blade!? 😱
lazy ways to make the game harder :(
Stop illegally hiding your mods behind a Patreon paywall, you THIEVES
Drag them like their lives depended upon it
Its illegal?
@@Gohan-Bestia Yeah it is illegal, its no longer fair use when you are forced to pay for access, they are profiting from others work
@@Gohan-BestiaYeah. It's extremely scummy. They are public mods. You pay for their page, and then they just link you to where the mods are free.
Cant have shit in ER 😭
this is the worst nerf i ever heard....wtf this just basically make incantation like black flame blade that is already so bad...to even worst...wtf fromsoftware
What s the Electric sword ?
Have you maybe tried a good seal????
Is it the status effect that got nerfed or those specific spells?
The black flame and destined death debuffs got nerfed against those bosses
@@Darkwingfriend11 So the entire family of spells and abilities. Thank you for the clarification.
I used the black flame and got thru the dlc
is that lightning weapon modded
Once again waiting for the modders to put the fun back into the game
I need to get Elden Ring on PC and just fix this crap myself. I'm getting sick of this.
Why TF did they nerf it without nerf u need to throw blackflame like 50 times to kill bosses anyways 😂 seriously and they let bleed domore dmg WTF is they thinking
Does Destined death exist in the land of the shadows?
Yes, the little shadow militia dudes can nail you with it, if they do a jump attack.
No lore reason, cheap way to make dlc harder. Ashes of Arendel oand the ringed city are still Fromsofts best work, nothing in ER tops it.
are you hacking? spell at 0:15 doesnt exist in game, im confused to how u use it? the centaur cruicible from that knight doesnt exist lol, so im confused how u have it
Really now? Destined death helped me ALOT with messmer,metyr and radahn. With Bayle I melted him with rot breath but my mimic was dealing some damage with destined death.
I think it is completely fine, and I support it. Some bosses have 80% reduction against some physical or elemental damage. Some bosses are 80% resistance to stance damage. Some bosses take 2 or 3 parries before riposte. You might call them ''forced difficulty'' as well, but they're literally just incremental difficulty.
It is a fair approach, it isn't applied to every single boss, it is a good way to prevent "ace cards that will trample every boss", it is a good incentive to adding variety to your build or trying new things.
It is always great and I love to have lore attached to the reason behind the special resistances (and weakness too, like Fallen Starbeast getting stance broken on 1 attack if you hit the head while it is charging). But, Fromsoftware should never need lore as an excuse when they're trying to "even out the difficulty for every build" across bosses as a whole.
Get that, Destined Death deals Fire Damage, which was even buffed in the Dlc. Also they want you to use the new things and not cheese with % Based things that are really buffable.