The story of how Michael Jackson's "Beat It" had to be remade using just the vocal, Eddie's solo, and Michael hitting two and four on a drum case shows the incredible talent of Jeff Porcaro (and Steve Lukather). Jeff made his own click track using just sticks while listening to these elements and what bleed-through he could make out. Then according to Luke, one or two takes and he had it. Then he hung around while Luke put on the guitar (Eddie did only the solo) and the bass.
Yes yes yes! what a great point about click tracks... thank you! With studio singers, I always give them a melody to follow, but then it winds up getting in the way of their unique phrasing. Feel is everything! and Jeff Almighty had it in spades :) ♥Miss that guy soooo much!
Jay Grayson you have a fabulous voice and just love some of the songs I never knew you created! You sing after the love is gone far superior to earth wind & fire. Come to plymouth and book would love to see you at our small venue Spire Center for the Arts. Keep producing music!
It's been a little bit of a dilemma in our band as well. When the whole band can hear the click, there's too much phasing!! I'm the only one that needs to hear it. Give me 4 for nuthin' and 4 to count the band in and we're good to go!!
Gospel/R&B legend Joel Smith (also a phenomenal bassist,) was the most uncanny drummer i had the pleasure of recording, in terms of his ability to make a click disappear. By that, i mean that tge only time you’d hear anything resembling a flam between click and *any* stroke or pedal was when he intentionally flex’d time thru sectional transitions, tho, miraculously, he’d land squarely on one. William Kennedy is able to make the click vanish, too, but Joel had mastered the technique. Agreed, Gadson’s a groove monster, and like Ed Green, doesn’t often show up on the short list of top drummers, when he absolutely should. Case in point: Bill Withers’ “Use Me Up” - JG presaged hiphop beats in a big way. impeccable feel!
As GREAT the legendary Jay is, Jeff was GREAT playing with a click track. I guess he preferred play without, but he could do it easy and perfect. I guess Carlos Vega too was killing with the click track, JR of course, and Vinnie is the GOAT in my book. PS : GOOD CALL on Ed Greene, way too underrated !!! He plays on "New Frontier" (Fagen "The Nightfly"), and "I Got The New" on "Aja". Steve Jordan plays "Walk Between The Raindrops" (Fagen).
Every session (don't worry, only a few over the years, I am no Jeff! lol) I have ever done was from the mid 90s on so a click was always a must when recording to Protools. I had the best advice from a producer on one of my first sessions and he put it like this : as a drummer, when you get your click sound, choose a Cowbell or Woodblock sound and just pretend that it is the BEST TIME keeping percussionist in the world and you just have to groove along with them. That really helped me understand the idea. You eventually can learn to play slightly ahead of it or drag behind sometimes to really lay the back beat back there. A worthy skill to have though, as I am not the best drummer but got calls over other dudes because I can play with clicks.
Who cares how well Jeff could play to a click ? Listen to the end product ... The song ... Everything he played on sounded great because his gift was driving it, not the stupid machine ...
Jeff did not like so much using click but that does not mean that he was BAD with it !!! He was amazing with or without it period. Jeff was not to keen of this man so I read on his life story book by Robin Flans “ it’s about time” Check it out its amazing…
I heard he had amazing time, too. There's a story that he was playing a track and was dead-on with the click. When the producer complimented him, he said that the click wasn't in his cans!! That said, I think there are people who don't like playing with a click and find it hard to be free. I could imagine Jeff being one of those; not that he couldn't do it, just that he was better without...
Great and very informative video! I always thought that Porcaro was great with a click - very interesting to hear that he wasn't. No surprise that Vinnie is! Mind you, a lot of this is perception. Graydon says that Steve Gadd was always perfect. Steve Khan says that he found him quite inconsistent, possibly "due to the drugs"!
Great clip, thanks for sharing! Is the whole interview some where to be found? Also, i have never heard the term "tilt", can anyone enlighten me on the meaning of this term? 😃
Sadly to see no mention of the late Great Drummer "Carlos Vega ", you talked about clicks , Carlos was the master of clicks , like James Taylor Quoted " Carlos was like a clock night after night ! People really need to know who Carlos Vega is . Any thoughts > Drummers , Fans and Musicians ?
I read an article years ago in Modern Drummer and someone had witnessed Vega listening back to himself and using a watch to check his timing. He was very precise.
Many thanks for this interesting interview! I am a huge fan of Jay Graydon and all the drummers mentioned in this video and always get back to the 1980ies to listen to good music. I was a bit surprised about Jay’s statement that Jeff Porcaro was not good with a click, because he (Jeff) worked a lot with Steely Dan, who were feared for their pickiness about timing in the studio. 5:46 Absolutely true. Ed Greene is such a fantastic drummer who should receive more attention. I often took him for Jeff Porcaro when listening to songs he played on before I knew who the drummer was. Like Jeff, he is also a phenomenal shuffle player. Ed played on Alan Sorrenti’s “L.A & N.Y.” album which was also produced by Jay. ruclips.net/video/0WYy1LMKbkE/видео.html ruclips.net/video/l8w0rGk6hNU/видео.html
Facts Steve porcaro told me Jeff hated the click the story with Rhett Lawrence told me Jeff’s BD made the click disappear this is when music was stiffer the new wave era
Interesting to hear this in light of the fact that Chicago fired Danny Seraphine in the late 80s because he couldn't play to a click. I always thought he was amazing on their classic albums and didn't deserve that.
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The story of how Michael Jackson's "Beat It" had to be remade using just the vocal, Eddie's solo, and Michael hitting two and four on a drum case shows the incredible talent of Jeff Porcaro (and Steve Lukather). Jeff made his own click track using just sticks while listening to these elements and what bleed-through he could make out. Then according to Luke, one or two takes and he had it. Then he hung around while Luke put on the guitar (Eddie did only the solo) and the bass.
Great point about the band having to choose the click or the drummer...it's great to know that these guys were choosing to follow the drummer.
Yes yes yes! what a great point about click tracks... thank you!
With studio singers, I always give them a melody to follow, but then
it winds up getting in the way of their unique phrasing. Feel is everything!
and Jeff Almighty had it in spades :) ♥Miss that guy soooo much!
Good interpertation of this quote a lot of people thinks that Jay is offending mr Porcaro here, but it is a big compliment!....
@@RubenvanRoonDrumChannel indeed... both of these guys are zen masters :)
Nice one Ruben thank you!
Great Stuff ! Thank you
Jay Grayson you have a fabulous voice and just love some of the songs I never knew you created! You sing after the love is gone far superior to earth wind & fire. Come to plymouth and book would love to see you at our small venue Spire Center for the Arts. Keep producing music!
It's been a little bit of a dilemma in our band as well. When the whole band can hear the click, there's too much phasing!! I'm the only one that needs to hear it. Give me 4 for nuthin' and 4 to count the band in and we're good to go!!
Gospel/R&B legend Joel Smith (also a phenomenal bassist,) was the most uncanny drummer i had the pleasure of recording, in terms of his ability to make a click disappear. By that, i mean that tge only time you’d hear anything resembling a flam between click and *any* stroke or pedal was when he intentionally flex’d time thru sectional transitions, tho, miraculously, he’d land squarely on one. William Kennedy is able to make the click vanish, too, but Joel had mastered the technique.
Agreed, Gadson’s a groove monster, and like Ed Green, doesn’t often show up on the short list of top drummers, when he absolutely should. Case in point: Bill Withers’ “Use Me Up” - JG presaged hiphop beats in a big way. impeccable feel!
If you listen to mornin the bridge “my heart will soar…” Jeff pulls the snare way back but appropriately then goes back to orig feel
As GREAT the legendary Jay is, Jeff was GREAT playing with a click track.
I guess he preferred play without, but he could do it easy and perfect.
I guess Carlos Vega too was killing with the click track, JR of course, and Vinnie is the GOAT in my book.
PS : GOOD CALL on Ed Greene, way too underrated !!! He plays on "New Frontier" (Fagen "The Nightfly"), and "I Got The New" on "Aja".
Steve Jordan plays "Walk Between The Raindrops" (Fagen).
Ed Greene is so underrated it hurts the mind and heart!
@@IronMan-tk8uc True talk !!!
Every session (don't worry, only a few over the years, I am no Jeff! lol) I have ever done was from the mid 90s on so a click was always a must when recording to Protools. I had the best advice from a producer on one of my first sessions and he put it like this : as a drummer, when you get your click sound, choose a Cowbell or Woodblock sound and just pretend that it is the BEST TIME keeping percussionist in the world and you just have to groove along with them. That really helped me understand the idea. You eventually can learn to play slightly ahead of it or drag behind sometimes to really lay the back beat back there. A worthy skill to have though, as I am not the best drummer but got calls over other dudes because I can play with clicks.
totally agreed, playing rhythm guitar since the 90s is the same thing. the click is the best cowbell woodblock, or conga player ever.
Awesome. Jeff stated the same thing that your friend said about clicks. He pretended it's just a guy with a cowbell next to him.
Great Stuff Ruben
Gaaf Ruben echt bijzonder!
"The Nightfly" LP is one of the cleanest, tightest recordings ever.
...
Re: click-track talk
"I AM the (expletive)ing CLICK TRACK!"
- Ringo
That is exactly what Jay ment …
Who cares how well Jeff could play to a click ?
Listen to the end product ...
The song ...
Everything he played on sounded great because his gift was driving it, not the stupid machine ...
I think that is exacly what Jay says;)
You even could tell where Jeff was going to do the 1 in the beat even before you came to the session, he was so onto it (lol)
This contradicts what others have said, that Jeff’s time was impeccable including Lukather and Leo Sayer
I think you have to interperate it like he has such incredible feel there is no click needed….
Jeff did not like so much using click but that does not mean that he was BAD with it !!! He was amazing with or without it period. Jeff was not to keen of this man so I read on his life story book by Robin Flans “ it’s about time” Check it out its amazing…
I heard he had amazing time, too. There's a story that he was playing a track and was dead-on with the click. When the producer complimented him, he said that the click wasn't in his cans!! That said, I think there are people who don't like playing with a click and find it hard to be free. I could imagine Jeff being one of those; not that he couldn't do it, just that he was better without...
Great and very informative video! I always thought that Porcaro was great with a click - very interesting to hear that he wasn't. No surprise that Vinnie is! Mind you, a lot of this is perception. Graydon says that Steve Gadd was always perfect. Steve Khan says that he found him quite inconsistent, possibly "due to the drugs"!
Great clip, thanks for sharing! Is the whole interview some where to be found? Also, i have never heard the term "tilt", can anyone enlighten me on the meaning of this term? 😃
Tilt =shuffle ruclips.net/video/pNXM7wK0Iso/видео.html&feature=share
Sadly to see no mention of the late Great Drummer "Carlos Vega ", you talked about clicks , Carlos was the master of clicks , like James Taylor Quoted " Carlos was like a clock night after night ! People really need to know who Carlos Vega is . Any thoughts > Drummers , Fans and Musicians ?
Sorry about that, your so true! Next time;)
Love Carlos ❤
I read an article years ago in Modern Drummer and someone had witnessed Vega listening back to himself and using a watch to check his timing. He was very precise.
Cool Interview Ruben! Nooit verwacht dat Jeff slecht met click was.
Ed greene played on new frontier and maxine ..gadson played IGY with jeff ovdrdubs and jeff played tne remainder of the songs
don't forget Steve Jordan!
I forgot about walk between the raindrops
That tracks swings too
Many thanks for this interesting interview!
I am a huge fan of Jay Graydon and all the drummers mentioned in this video and always get back to the
1980ies to listen to good music.
I was a bit surprised about Jay’s statement that Jeff Porcaro was not good with a click, because he (Jeff)
worked a lot with Steely Dan, who were feared for their pickiness about timing in the studio.
5:46
Absolutely true.
Ed Greene is such a fantastic drummer who should receive more attention.
I often took him for Jeff Porcaro when listening to songs he played on before I knew who the drummer was.
Like Jeff, he is also a phenomenal shuffle player.
Ed played on Alan Sorrenti’s “L.A & N.Y.” album which was also produced by Jay.
ruclips.net/video/0WYy1LMKbkE/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/l8w0rGk6hNU/видео.html
thnx!
Facts Steve porcaro told me Jeff hated the click the story with Rhett Lawrence told me Jeff’s BD made the click disappear this is when music was stiffer the new wave era
Wow!!! Thnx for sharing!
Unless there’s sequencing etc, the click should be thought of as a reference. Good time like Jeff’s is elastic.
Africa was recorded over a loop...
Jeff didn't have a problem with it ..
...personally I'm about 95% against using click tracks...
they made the loop after recording, so no click there.
I can’t remember where I got this but Jeff intentionally is going off the click like a conductor he told Jay hire a drum machine
You wanted to hear how Gadd plays with a click. Here it is: ruclips.net/video/Ez5Uufpq4Qg/видео.html
OH WOW THANKS!!!
@@RubenvanRoonDrumChannel You're welcome. Steve and Vinnie in a two-for-one!
Interesting to hear this in light of the fact that Chicago fired Danny Seraphine in the late 80s because he couldn't play to a click. I always thought he was amazing on their classic albums and didn't deserve that.
I think is a bit bitter about porcaro
I think its more that this natural drummers like Jeff, Gadd, don’t need a click they have so natural feel and groove! So it is a compliment….
Why yall talking so much play something
haha well it is an interview;)...next time