The wildest thing is how Cragen's like, "This guy was junkie scum as a teenager back in the '70s. People can never, ever change so he's definitely our murderer!" Why is that wild? Because when Cragen arrested him, he was a fully-grown adult who had already been a Green Beret in Vietnam and also, coincidentally, a massive alcoholic. He was so severely alcoholic, in fact, that he developed a tolerance high enough that he could hold a gun on a taxi driver (because he didn't like the way he was honking his horn) without any outward sign of being drunk. Cragen changed because that was his "rock bottom." He changed *that night*. Literally. He went from holding a gun on that cabbie to his first AA meeting and didn't have another drink for decades. Cragen changed from a rock bottom which had essentially *no consequences*. But yeah, better believe him when he says there's no way a teenager going to prison could turn their life around! Note: This is a GREAT characterization and totally plausible thinking for the character. It's a kind of thinking that is all too common in the law enforcement/criminal justice community, in fact.
I like how they finally did an episode showing how the department is indeed morally corrupted as they never presume innocence, use manipulative tactics, and hold no responsibility. Finally reams them as only the neutral guys, not the good guys.
TV-people are a different breed of literal humans when they're surrounded by authorizes. Like, bro this he's Scarlet Witch and have the cops miss ALL the bullets?!
side note - people legit do actually try this when they are desperate and would rather die than go to prison. though normally reaching for the gun would have been death, not aiming it.
In this episode of SVU, we learn that no matter how hard people work to change their lives to pick up after hitting Rockbottom will always look at you as a criminal. I really hated the captain in this episode he destroyed a man’s life after years of turning it around. I still say they should’ve sued him even if they saved his life.
Technically, it didn't show what happened afterwards when the episode ended. It could have very well been that they did continue to sue but the liability insurance covered whatever they sued him for.
Super convenient how the Perp just goes for the gun instead of doing the sensible thing of "Bruh, my entire confession is invalid because I had a gun to my head, please lock this guy up".
@@freedomwriter1995technically based on our 5th amendment right, it’s 100% illegal to force someone into admitting even if they spill every single detail. 5th states “no person shall be held to answer for capital or otherwise infamous crime, outside of a grand jury”. Whether it’s you or a cop, holding a gun to someone to force them to testify is illegal.
This is one of Svu's best seasons. There are many episodes where the main characters had to face tough situations and cases where they are personally involved, either emotionally or when they face criminal charges.
If the guy hadn't picked up the gun at the end there he'd likely have been able to just walk away. Confessions made under duress are inadmissible as evidence, aren't they?
Well, he was just as dangerous as the man he try to frame. His lawyer might get him criminal insane and he might be place in a mental asylum. Most of the time in those case they would try to get them to plead they mental issues. But clearly the guy plan it so well, so the crime won't get trace back to him. But the police did traced it to him.
The irony of how the guy literally said from the start "the system fails ex-cons, and nobody will give them a chance" and then they do just that thinking they're better. While it's a dramatized version of reality, the truth is that the wrong people are in charge of the rehabilitation system. They just want collars and names on the book, and don't care if people want to be better.
Stabler of all people had dealt with so many crooked cops, has had accusations thrown against him, and has gotten off with a slap on the wrist after doing the wrong thing, but will still smugly stand there like the justice system and everything involved with it is always cut and dry as long as he “believes” someone’s guilt with or without proof 😒
He said more accusations thrown against them than anybody else in the entire department combined. He even takes his attitude home with him, and most of his kids got screwed up.
Loved the 2 episodes that centered around Cragen. The episode "Stolen" from season 3, and this episode. Wish they'd have had more episodes where Cragen was the focus of the episode.
That killer “gave her one last chance”. What the hell kind of thought process is that?? If a woman tells a guy she’s not interested, that’s that. Leave her alone.
Old fashion jealousy. The killer couldn't handle the rejection and couldn't stand the idea that his dream woman was marrying somebody else. So if he couldn't have her, then no one could. But obviously, that wasn't enough. He also wanted to punish the guy for taking his woman by framing him.
@@oddeyesrebellion923 What sucks the most is that this kind of stuff has, can and will continue to happen because of delusion; women, men and children dying at the hands of someone who thinks they own them.
That's why some women lie about being interested in an annoying guy in order to not be killed. Some guys don't take rejection well. It's actually scary. I saw a guy at a club that I went attended with a friend follow us around the club and tried to follow us to an IHOP.
Ah yes. There’s no way a lady would order food for two people intending to eat it all. The Chinese takeout place definitely gives me two sets of chopsticks for me AND my friend. Who is definitely also eating this food.
Occasionally I'd think so, but the original loomed so, so large. But, then there were Eames and Goren being so, so obviously based on Watson and Holmes. But, Lenny and Mike rule.
I work in the justice system and often see cops and prosecutors make mistakes like this. Sometimes it's malicious but, more often than not, it's just laziness stacked on top of confirmation bias. L&O is a great show but it's most definitely copaganda. This clip is a rare example of a cop show acknowledging that law enforcement is no less susceptible to screwing up than anybody else.
4 months later: What gets me is how convenient that final sequence is. Girl goes from "We're suing you for just reasons" to "Help me Obi-Wan Cragen, you're my only hope" in a single cut, relieving him of all ethical responsibility to at the very least apologize for his actions; then at the standoff, he doesn't so much as get called out by the man having an emotional breakdown partly induced by him. Even if I were to watch the story unfold in the episode proper, I'd probably scoff at how transparently copagandistic it is.
@mahatmagandhiful Just once, I'd like to see someone make a show that focuses on the other side of the line. Show me defense attorneys fighting hard for their clients, PIs digging up facts the police missed, etc. That's just as much a real and important part of the system as detectives and prosecutors doing their jobs every day.
Double jeopardy is about not being able to be tried twice for the same crime. So if A murders B, but gets acquitted, and then new evidence is found, A can't be tried again for murder. However, if C murders D, and is convicted, and serves their sentence, and is released, and then E is murdered, the police look at the people most likely to do it, especially people who've murdered previously. * They are then able to try C for E's murder, because that's a separate crime. Double jeopardy is only invoked for the same crime. * police (and others) look at previous behaviour because that's what people do. If you're going for a job, you give the employer your resume - a recital of your previous employment behaviour. Employers ask previous employers for a reference - more evidence of your previous behaviour. Now they've started looking at your social media to see what you're like off the job (which I disagree with intensely). But that's what everyone does.
He still died. The only difference is the guy who had the right to do so was talked out of it. This guy managed to take the easy way out for his crimes.
I’m not the smartest guy on earth but I SAID when you get older you realize the Law isn’t about RIght or Wrong!?!? It’s about what side you slander less 🤦🏾
I know this is fictional, but I'm just saying that if the killer didn't try to shoot Vega. He would've been home free. Considering his confession would've been questionable and would've been inadmissible since he had a loaded gun in his face.
I'm unsure where to post this, but is that a clip from an episode where a boy murders his stepfather following his mother's remarriage? I can't recall if it was from "Law and Order" or "Law and Order: SVU." All I remember is: "I like it when it was you and me."
People really can change. It's rare, but they can.😇😇 I just wish the arresting officers would believe that.🙁🙁 In this case, the crime happened decades ago, and the perp was very high when he did it. Plus, it's not like Donald was the best person to judge considering at that time he was a full on drunk (or as I like to say, a "Liquid Junkie").
They'd probably not go after Cragen since he saved his life, and the city would likely come to some sort of settlement. Personally, I think suing the university for firing him would probably get the best results.
Best guess? Stress so he didn’t account for that, or the fact that even if he did, they know he was telling the truth and would keep searching until they could convict him properly, which they would do restlessly. Or even more so, he straight up was blind to rage and still hung up about him stealing “his” woman. Split second decision, the murderer re-emerges to finally be put down.
I get he's your father and you don't want him to die but to go to the person your suing for help is wild. Like "I'm suing you for millions but I still expect you and your specific department, even though I can go to another department, to help me."
What a bullshit video - "he was a child who made a stupid mistake": yeah, and the victim's family are still living with the consequences of that 'mistake'.
People really do think that way, though. Doesn't mean it's correct, but it's realistic to what some folks will say about convicted murderers whom they feel sympathetic towards for whatever ideological reasons.
The wildest thing is how Cragen's like, "This guy was junkie scum as a teenager back in the '70s. People can never, ever change so he's definitely our murderer!"
Why is that wild?
Because when Cragen arrested him, he was a fully-grown adult who had already been a Green Beret in Vietnam and also, coincidentally, a massive alcoholic. He was so severely alcoholic, in fact, that he developed a tolerance high enough that he could hold a gun on a taxi driver (because he didn't like the way he was honking his horn) without any outward sign of being drunk.
Cragen changed because that was his "rock bottom." He changed *that night*. Literally. He went from holding a gun on that cabbie to his first AA meeting and didn't have another drink for decades.
Cragen changed from a rock bottom which had essentially *no consequences*. But yeah, better believe him when he says there's no way a teenager going to prison could turn their life around!
Note: This is a GREAT characterization and totally plausible thinking for the character. It's a kind of thinking that is all too common in the law enforcement/criminal justice community, in fact.
Shorten those posts.
I like how they finally did an episode showing how the department is indeed morally corrupted as they never presume innocence, use manipulative tactics, and hold no responsibility. Finally reams them as only the neutral guys, not the good guys.
@@ThePokemonSoldierexactly. And I am glad for that.
@@TheBatugan77how else would he get how meaningful the point is if it was shortened?
@@TheBatugan77 no.
Bro really tried to grab that gun like he was gonna do smth
TV-people are a different breed of literal humans when they're surrounded by authorizes. Like, bro this he's Scarlet Witch and have the cops miss ALL the bullets?!
side note - people legit do actually try this when they are desperate and would rather die than go to prison. though normally reaching for the gun would have been death, not aiming it.
@@ZaricaLP Pretty sure he was trying to kill Vega.
In this episode of SVU, we learn that no matter how hard people work to change their lives to pick up after hitting Rockbottom will always look at you as a criminal. I really hated the captain in this episode he destroyed a man’s life after years of turning it around. I still say they should’ve sued him even if they saved his life.
Reason #344 I trust no LEO.
@@ChrisCosatha!
Technically, it didn't show what happened afterwards when the episode ended. It could have very well been that they did continue to sue but the liability insurance covered whatever they sued him for.
Cragen has always been a worm, he's afraid of looking bad to protect his pension, especially in the original series
Actually Cragen at every right to feel the way he felt about Vega. He killed an innocent woman, that isn’t something people can just look past
Super convenient how the Perp just goes for the gun instead of doing the sensible thing of "Bruh, my entire confession is invalid because I had a gun to my head, please lock this guy up".
Lmaooo I was thinking that. Like he told the guy to confess to murder or he’d die. Like how would that be admissible in court??😭
Else it would have become an SVU 2 hr movie special
Technically, it only would have been thrown out if an officer had a gun to his head. Plus, they were chasing them both so it's exigent circumstances.
not after giving details that only the murderer would know!
@@freedomwriter1995technically based on our 5th amendment right, it’s 100% illegal to force someone into admitting even if they spill every single detail. 5th states “no person shall be held to answer for capital or otherwise infamous crime, outside of a grand jury”. Whether it’s you or a cop, holding a gun to someone to force them to testify is illegal.
This is one of Svu's best seasons. There are many episodes where the main characters had to face tough situations and cases where they are personally involved, either emotionally or when they face criminal charges.
If the guy hadn't picked up the gun at the end there he'd likely have been able to just walk away. Confessions made under duress are inadmissible as evidence, aren't they?
Well, he's not getting convicted either way now...
Maybe, but they still had other evidence against him that proved he did it
He wouldn’t have walked. Towards the end of the episode they found evidence against him. He was done either way.
Well, he was just as dangerous as the man he try to frame. His lawyer might get him criminal insane and he might be place in a mental asylum. Most of the time in those case they would try to get them to plead they mental issues. But clearly the guy plan it so well, so the crime won't get trace back to him. But the police did traced it to him.
Yep
The irony of how the guy literally said from the start "the system fails ex-cons, and nobody will give them a chance" and then they do just that thinking they're better. While it's a dramatized version of reality, the truth is that the wrong people are in charge of the rehabilitation system. They just want collars and names on the book, and don't care if people want to be better.
I'm on the daughter's side here, Stabler was totally out of line, and they should continue that law suit against the department and the city
Stabler of all people had dealt with so many crooked cops, has had accusations thrown against him, and has gotten off with a slap on the wrist after doing the wrong thing, but will still smugly stand there like the justice system and everything involved with it is always cut and dry as long as he “believes” someone’s guilt with or without proof 😒
Technically they did nothing wrong, all the evidence pointed to him
He said more accusations thrown against them than anybody else in the entire department combined. He even takes his attitude home with him, and most of his kids got screwed up.
Loved the 2 episodes that centered around Cragen. The episode "Stolen" from season 3, and this episode. Wish they'd have had more episodes where Cragen was the focus of the episode.
Arthur Fancy is Gamora's dad?! The things you learn on RUclips.....
@ZoneHeart-00Marvel superhero portrayed by Zoe Saldana
@ZoneHeart-00I'll do you one better, where is Gamora?
@ZoneHeart-00 You’re welcome
Wait, who is "Arthur Fancy"?
@ZoneHeart-00Also Neytiri from Avatar.
That killer “gave her one last chance”. What the hell kind of thought process is that?? If a woman tells a guy she’s not interested, that’s that. Leave her alone.
Old fashion jealousy. The killer couldn't handle the rejection and couldn't stand the idea that his dream woman was marrying somebody else. So if he couldn't have her, then no one could. But obviously, that wasn't enough. He also wanted to punish the guy for taking his woman by framing him.
@@oddeyesrebellion923 What sucks the most is that this kind of stuff has, can and will continue to happen because of delusion; women, men and children dying at the hands of someone who thinks they own them.
Some people think things revolve around them pretty much🤦🏿♂️
That's why some women lie about being interested in an annoying guy in order to not be killed. Some guys don't take rejection well. It's actually scary. I saw a guy at a club that I went attended with a friend follow us around the club and tried to follow us to an IHOP.
@@jendayichristian1644 Dudes need to be reminded they don’t own women and are not owed a thing from them.
Ah yes. There’s no way a lady would order food for two people intending to eat it all. The Chinese takeout place definitely gives me two sets of chopsticks for me AND my friend. Who is definitely also eating this food.
A random clip like this was recommended to me about a year ago, and I can say now that I’ve seen every episode of every season
@3:55 "Elliot! Condoms."
Me: Uh... is owning those a crime now?
Zoe Saldana in an early role!
I worked with her uncle at a jail in NYC.
Go watch the movie Center Stage! You'll love her in that!!
I realized that too
I thought it was her! But then I thought maybe not because she's so young and looks slightly different for it. Thanks for confirming
So this is what Lieutenant Fancy did after leaving the 15th Precinct!
Pretty sure such a confession made under duress would be inadmissible.
Almost an NYPD BLUE Crossover.
SVU will always be my fav of the law and order saga ❤
Occasionally I'd think so, but the original loomed so, so large. But, then there were Eames and Goren being so, so obviously based on Watson and Holmes. But, Lenny and Mike rule.
@@aaronleverton4221 I love the original as well I think I’m just a huge mariska fan ❤️
@@aaronleverton4221 Lennie was the best detective period, imo. Loooved him 💜
People can change over time. To a junkie to a completely different person after they got sober.
Don’t think I’ve seen Zoe so young other than drumline
Go back further to “Center Stage”. That pre-dates “Drumline”.
@jinakaye i love that someone else mentioned centerstage ❤❤
Zoe was great in this!
Keep it comin with the uploads!
The more I watch SVU the more I realize that a lot of famous people are in hear episodes young and old
I work in the justice system and often see cops and prosecutors make mistakes like this. Sometimes it's malicious but, more often than not, it's just laziness stacked on top of confirmation bias.
L&O is a great show but it's most definitely copaganda. This clip is a rare example of a cop show acknowledging that law enforcement is no less susceptible to screwing up than anybody else.
4 months later: What gets me is how convenient that final sequence is. Girl goes from "We're suing you for just reasons" to "Help me Obi-Wan Cragen, you're my only hope" in a single cut, relieving him of all ethical responsibility to at the very least apologize for his actions; then at the standoff, he doesn't so much as get called out by the man having an emotional breakdown partly induced by him. Even if I were to watch the story unfold in the episode proper, I'd probably scoff at how transparently copagandistic it is.
@mahatmagandhiful Just once, I'd like to see someone make a show that focuses on the other side of the line. Show me defense attorneys fighting hard for their clients, PIs digging up facts the police missed, etc.
That's just as much a real and important part of the system as detectives and prosecutors doing their jobs every day.
At the end, that was the most underrated acting ever.
That Mariska Hagritay hairstyle is doing wonders to me right now
Double jeopardy is illegal... "he's killed someone before therefore he killed this girl"
Double jeopardy is about not being able to be tried twice for the same crime. So if A murders B, but gets acquitted, and then new evidence is found, A can't be tried again for murder.
However, if C murders D, and is convicted, and serves their sentence, and is released, and then E is murdered, the police look at the people most likely to do it, especially people who've murdered previously. *
They are then able to try C for E's murder, because that's a separate crime. Double jeopardy is only invoked for the same crime.
* police (and others) look at previous behaviour because that's what people do. If you're going for a job, you give the employer your resume - a recital of your previous employment behaviour. Employers ask previous employers for a reference - more evidence of your previous behaviour. Now they've started looking at your social media to see what you're like off the job (which I disagree with intensely). But that's what everyone does.
@@PaulineFerguson Yes, sure, but "you've killed before and are somewhat a suspect so you probably did it again" isn't probable cause for an arrest.
The horrible length that people do because someone reject them for another person.
They really wanna go after Gamora's father? Do they really not know who he is?
Lerman: gets released and instantly grabs a gun in front of the cops. What an idiot!!!
“$42 on sushi. That’s a lot for one person.”
Me: “Um… Some would say it’s enough for one person…”
Me who spends about 70 to 100 on sushi just for myself.
I know right? Nigiri sushi is expensive!
"She hang around with a lot of ex-cons?"
"You say that like they're lepers"...
No, she said it like they're ex-cons...
He still died. The only difference is the guy who had the right to do so was talked out of it. This guy managed to take the easy way out for his crimes.
Didn't know Captain Fancy had a side job
"$42.00 . . . that's a lot of sushi for one person"
Aww, I wish the dollar still had that kind of buying power in 2024
The fact that they were able to catch the real murderer without involving Vega was enough grounds for a lawsuit.
I’m not the smartest guy on earth but I SAID when you get older you realize the Law isn’t about RIght or Wrong!?!? It’s about what side you slander less 🤦🏾
He attacked her and knew she'll never love him in return 😢
And he died as a greedy pig he is, and died died as the creep
This is the problem with tunnel vision .
Retired Captain Cragan solved the problem.
Idk how the just automatically thought the guy tho…what was the evidence or correlation captain?
I know this is fictional, but I'm just saying that if the killer didn't try to shoot Vega. He would've been home free. Considering his confession would've been questionable and would've been inadmissible since he had a loaded gun in his face.
They had evidence proving he did it. He was stalking Vega, taking pictures of him learning about him so he can easily frame him
It’s this clip again!
It’s wild how they lockup Lt Fancy up from nypd blue
I'm unsure where to post this, but is that a clip from an episode where a boy murders his stepfather following his mother's remarriage? I can't recall if it was from "Law and Order" or "Law and Order: SVU." All I remember is: "I like it when it was you and me."
Is the Vega actor also from HILLSTREET BLUES? or am I thinking of some other actor ?!
I wouldn't be surprised of he was on hill street blues as a bit player. Both NYPD blue and hill street blues were both produced by Steven bochco/bocco
They also need to air videos of law and order criminal intent of goren eames and deakins along with carver
lol, I get it, but I love how out of all the police she could have turned to for help, she goes straight to the police and man she is suing. Typical!
Since when was Gamora a human
Yeah, before Gamora joined the Guardians of the Galaxy.
That’s one way to find the truth
I just finished this episode lol
People really can change. It's rare, but they can.😇😇 I just wish the arresting officers would believe that.🙁🙁
In this case, the crime happened decades ago, and the perp was very high when he did it. Plus, it's not like Donald was the best person to judge considering at that time he was a full on drunk (or as I like to say, a "Liquid Junkie").
Like you said yourself, it’s very rare. Best to go off of an assumption when you have no other leads, that’s how policing works.
@@Sniperboy5551 and when it happens it's with the guys that he described earlier in the video
Hey it’s Zoe Saldana
Fancy done pulled a Sipowicz
Everyone loved her
This was before Zoe was a Na’vi
thats sick i dislike that i just eat all this pizza.
"Sanca....Ya Dead?"
Yah man, I'm dead
By the way i like Chapters when Donnie it's the main protagonist
You people are really into this. I don't even know what you're talking about! 😊
Not sorry to say that their lawsuit would probably be dismissed, as the police acted in good faith.
They'd probably not go after Cragen since he saved his life, and the city would likely come to some sort of settlement.
Personally, I think suing the university for firing him would probably get the best results.
why'd he draw the gun? Confessions made under duress are inadmissable in court.
Best guess? Stress so he didn’t account for that, or the fact that even if he did, they know he was telling the truth and would keep searching until they could convict him properly, which they would do restlessly. Or even more so, he straight up was blind to rage and still hung up about him stealing “his” woman. Split second decision, the murderer re-emerges to finally be put down.
Didn’t matter they still had DNA evidence
Judging by the comments, I’m seeing a lot of ex/current/future criminals in here 😂
Trump says that Getting high on drugs is weak. The junkies need “special handling.”
Cragen screwed the pooch on this one
❤❤😂😂😂😂😂
Amorajennings 👮
Authur fancy
👍😎
“$42.”… “That’s a lot of sushi for one person”
👁️👄👁️ I spent $52 at sushi Q, went home to crossfade and play Genshin
42 dollars worth in back then money
I get he's your father and you don't want him to die but to go to the person your suing for help is wild. Like "I'm suing you for millions but I still expect you and your specific department, even though I can go to another department, to help me."
They said they wanted to find who killed Rebecca. Helping her in turn helped them catch the real killer.
Welp. He dead.
What a bullshit video - "he was a child who made a stupid mistake": yeah, and the victim's family are still living with the consequences of that 'mistake'.
People really do think that way, though. Doesn't mean it's correct, but it's realistic to what some folks will say about convicted murderers whom they feel sympathetic towards for whatever ideological reasons.
@@WangMingGe Oh yeah absolutely - I'm just pointing out how wrong those people are.
I've been living off grid for 5 years now and I'm glad I did
No ur not or u wouldnt be posting. Duh.
@audraarndt1824 exactly. Rodney's elevator isn't going all the way up to the penthouse!
pretty rich of that woman begging for help from the man she's suing
I love SVU even Detective Olivia's skills
First Step Act 👍
By Trump ‼️
This is why we need Jesus Christ and His Holy Spirit 🙏
Whole lotta crying with no actual tears... That's bad acting... U gotta be able to produce some real tears.