word of warning to those of you who'll find this annoying, i've got my joyce pitchforks 🔱 out for the next two episodes. oh, and I keep forgetting her name and calling her "the mom.” i promise i warm up to her eventually lol, but if you’re gonna find that annoying, feel free to sit these next couple out. happy buffy tuesdays! ❤🔥🗡
I like to think that criticisms towards Joyce are a sign that as society we are moving past what we know better re: acceptable parenting in the 90s and that’s a good thing! 😊 I predict your opinions of her currently might adjust slightly in future seasons
I think that's pretty fair. At this point in the show, Joyce is essentially either a plot device or a minor antagonist when she appears in an episode. She's the "normal life" pushing back, and as @alysharichards mentions, is also a "standard 90s single mom" in a lot of ways that have thankfully aged poorly.
If you never had a dysfunctional family with abuse, this show is exactly how ridiculous, crazy, and powerless you feel when it happens. Many of the things shown were how abusers work, and instead of drugging the cookies a lot of times it's actual street drugs or alcohol that fuels the fire. The abusers are able to convince families, friends and teachers that they are "great" and how lucky a kid is to have someone who "loves" them. This is why kids get given back to abusive families by CPS. I know when I saw this episode I was like "YES! That's exactly what it feels like!". Buffy rocks.
tbh it's very refreshing to see a reactor actually know who John Ritter is. Such a great guest star! I totally agree with you about Joyce in this episode - I feel like they were trying to show how a "normal" mother would react to a daughter who acts like Buffy does without knowing the context that she's a slayer... it's not always successfully conveyed. And even if it were the drugs to blame in this episode, even Xander and Willow took Buffy's concerns seriously while they were drugged.
Xander and Willow didn't really take it seriously while drugged, in the scene after he threatens her, she's talking to them and they ask if she might be overreacting. They make a point of it not really hitting how serious it is until the drugs wear off when Xander suddenly gets pissed in the library after not eating Ted's food for a while. I do agree with your overall point though, they occasionally tend to overdo the Joyce bits to the point where she's just mean.
Finally, a reactor who sees Joyce for exactly who she is.i think you might be the first. Don’t ever feel you need to feel a certain way about a character because you think people say you should. That’s for only you to decide according to the situations and outcomes. What you see and hear is what you see and hear.
I was never physically abused, but I remember my former stepdad trying to powerplay me about gardening in a way that made things uncomfortable. I later learned it was because he felt he and my mom should be out gardening with him, when it was his passion project. Lucky my mom wasn't like Joyce and knew how to say to him it was his project, and we didn't want to be out there eight to ten hours a day on days off work like he was doing. I've seen fans try to give Joyce the excuse of Ted's drugged food. But no... Shadowcat isn't being nitpicky. The drugs made characters mellow. That's never the way Joyce acts once Ted is unconscious at the bottom of the stairs or when Buffy tries to explain what he did to her. So, Joyce not believing Buffy on Ted's abuse, that doesn't work for me. If Joyce had been drugged at all times she would have acted like Xander did at the end when Willow realized Ted was drugging food, it would have come off more as mellow/not worrying about it over disbelief and contained anger at what Buffy did. The attitude she has towards Buffy throughout he episode isn't the mellow behavior of the drugs. I would argue Joyce is remembering how great the drugs make her think Ted is (even when she isn't drugged). That fits in more with her bad mom calls she has been making (and even admits she makes ["a little sloppy on the dismount" and telling Buffy she is only now just learning the word no as examples] from previous episodes and seasons) than it does a mellow behavior from drugs. I think her wanting to believe it based on remembering how she felt about him and acted towards him while on the drugs explains her behavior and attitude better. This disbelief here (and including more verbal moments like what I mentioned above with me, as I didn't know my mom was going against him immediately [and only saw her sittig by his side when he Danny Tanner talked to me after having told me off rudely earlier without her around] are reasons why abused people can have a hard time coming forward. Buffy did come forward and a huge fear of most abused victims happened. She was disbelieved, and I cannot use the drugged food as an excuse. RIP John Ritter!
Parents(and adults in general) are notable mainly by their absence in this show. Xander, Willow, Cordelia...their parents are barely acknowledged to exist. Part of it is just the narrative focus isn't at all concerned with family life, and part of it is the Sunnydale Hellmouth phenomenon, where a murder rate that would shame Juarez is blithely ignored. How many dead bodies have been found on school property thus far? Including a partially eaten principal. Which brings us to Ted. My head canon holds that the Hellmouth generates Evil to the point that anything wrong or bad that is attempted gets a boost in probability and gets turned up to 11. Hence an android designed and built in the 1960s actually working and passing as human and Science Club kids can resurrect the dead. This ep really illustrates an inherent limitation of series TV as traditionally structured. Weighty issues must be introduced and resolved within 40 minutes. You basically knew the roles played by guest stars. John Ritter"Ted" was a very well known actor at this time. You knew that he was either the villain or the victim of the ep, and be gone by the end. At least they cast him against type, as he was a comedian and all round nice guy. BTVS did more than just about any other series in stretching these storytelling boundaries across its run time.
I try to give Joyce the benefit of the doubt and assume she apologized off camera, but it really should have been shown. Joyce would have been much more strongly under the influence of the drugs than anyone else, and maybe the drugs were supernatural, if Ted got them in Sunnydale. I like to speculate that Buffy immediately mistrusted Ted partly because of her Slayer senses. Maybe she could sense that Ted didn't have a soul, or that there was something off about the way he moved. But because of the situation, everyone (including herself and the viewer) assumes that her instant dislike is just teenage insecurity about her mom dating someone new.
Naur because the show makes it nigh impossible to root for Joyce for the first two seasons or more lmao. She's so dumb for no reason 😂 they needed her to be for the plot to work though, very YA genre typical clueless parenting. I just can't take her seriously.
Again we see the show with a mirror on social comment. The situation with Ted, where on the face of it he seems nice as pie, but is very dark and evil, but worms his way into all Buffy's friends with Buffy becoming marginalised. Many children resent a new partner being introduced into their lives when a divorced parent starts dating, and sometimes with good cause, as many exploit and abuse their position regarding a child that is not theirs. This show never shyed away from taking on such themes. Great satisfaction when Buffy finally sees to Ted. BTW always enjoyable watching younger people reacting to this and not getting the pop-culture references. The Captain and Tenille were an American husband and wife duo who were massive in the 70's and had a string of pop hits. It was a real coup for the show to get John Ritter to be in it a huge iconic actor in 70s and 80s.
things do get said and done off screen you know. i just assumed that stuff was sorted out before that last scene with joyce. it's baffling to me that you'd assume otherwise. i tend to make assumptions without a negative tilt. if buffy is happy in the scene i think that tell us all we need to know about if they worked it all out to her satisfaction.
word of warning to those of you who'll find this annoying, i've got my joyce pitchforks 🔱 out for the next two episodes. oh, and I keep forgetting her name and calling her "the mom.” i promise i warm up to her eventually lol, but if you’re gonna find that annoying, feel free to sit these next couple out. happy buffy tuesdays! ❤🔥🗡
I like to think that criticisms towards Joyce are a sign that as society we are moving past what we know better re: acceptable parenting in the 90s and that’s a good thing! 😊 I predict your opinions of her currently might adjust slightly in future seasons
The writing for Joyce is pretty trash right here. It does pick up eventually.
I think that's pretty fair. At this point in the show, Joyce is essentially either a plot device or a minor antagonist when she appears in an episode. She's the "normal life" pushing back, and as @alysharichards mentions, is also a "standard 90s single mom" in a lot of ways that have thankfully aged poorly.
If you never had a dysfunctional family with abuse, this show is exactly how ridiculous, crazy, and powerless you feel when it happens. Many of the things shown were how abusers work, and instead of drugging the cookies a lot of times it's actual street drugs or alcohol that fuels the fire. The abusers are able to convince families, friends and teachers that they are "great" and how lucky a kid is to have someone who "loves" them. This is why kids get given back to abusive families by CPS. I know when I saw this episode I was like "YES! That's exactly what it feels like!". Buffy rocks.
Don't forget Joyce is also under the influence of Ted's cooking.
tbh it's very refreshing to see a reactor actually know who John Ritter is. Such a great guest star! I totally agree with you about Joyce in this episode - I feel like they were trying to show how a "normal" mother would react to a daughter who acts like Buffy does without knowing the context that she's a slayer... it's not always successfully conveyed. And even if it were the drugs to blame in this episode, even Xander and Willow took Buffy's concerns seriously while they were drugged.
Xander and Willow didn't really take it seriously while drugged, in the scene after he threatens her, she's talking to them and they ask if she might be overreacting. They make a point of it not really hitting how serious it is until the drugs wear off when Xander suddenly gets pissed in the library after not eating Ted's food for a while. I do agree with your overall point though, they occasionally tend to overdo the Joyce bits to the point where she's just mean.
Sorry, I don't know why I had to jump in for such a small point, honestly I'm just high and like talking about Buffy lol. Have a good night.
Finally, a reactor who sees Joyce for exactly who she is.i think you might be the first.
Don’t ever feel you need to feel a certain way about a character because you think people say you should.
That’s for only you to decide according to the situations and outcomes. What you see and hear is what you see and hear.
I was never physically abused, but I remember my former stepdad trying to powerplay me about gardening in a way that made things uncomfortable. I later learned it was because he felt he and my mom should be out gardening with him, when it was his passion project. Lucky my mom wasn't like Joyce and knew how to say to him it was his project, and we didn't want to be out there eight to ten hours a day on days off work like he was doing.
I've seen fans try to give Joyce the excuse of Ted's drugged food. But no... Shadowcat isn't being nitpicky. The drugs made characters mellow. That's never the way Joyce acts once Ted is unconscious at the bottom of the stairs or when Buffy tries to explain what he did to her. So, Joyce not believing Buffy on Ted's abuse, that doesn't work for me. If Joyce had been drugged at all times she would have acted like Xander did at the end when Willow realized Ted was drugging food, it would have come off more as mellow/not worrying about it over disbelief and contained anger at what Buffy did. The attitude she has towards Buffy throughout he episode isn't the mellow behavior of the drugs. I would argue Joyce is remembering how great the drugs make her think Ted is (even when she isn't drugged). That fits in more with her bad mom calls she has been making (and even admits she makes ["a little sloppy on the dismount" and telling Buffy she is only now just learning the word no as examples] from previous episodes and seasons) than it does a mellow behavior from drugs. I think her wanting to believe it based on remembering how she felt about him and acted towards him while on the drugs explains her behavior and attitude better. This disbelief here (and including more verbal moments like what I mentioned above with me, as I didn't know my mom was going against him immediately [and only saw her sittig by his side when he Danny Tanner talked to me after having told me off rudely earlier without her around] are reasons why abused people can have a hard time coming forward. Buffy did come forward and a huge fear of most abused victims happened. She was disbelieved, and I cannot use the drugged food as an excuse.
RIP John Ritter!
Parents(and adults in general) are notable mainly by their absence in this show. Xander, Willow, Cordelia...their parents are barely acknowledged to exist. Part of it is just the narrative focus isn't at all concerned with family life, and part of it is the Sunnydale Hellmouth phenomenon, where a murder rate that would shame Juarez is blithely ignored. How many dead bodies have been found on school property thus far? Including a partially eaten principal.
Which brings us to Ted. My head canon holds that the Hellmouth generates Evil to the point that anything wrong or bad that is attempted gets a boost in probability and gets turned up to 11. Hence an android designed and built in the 1960s actually working and passing as human and Science Club kids can resurrect the dead.
This ep really illustrates an inherent limitation of series TV as traditionally structured. Weighty issues must be introduced and resolved within 40 minutes. You basically knew the roles played by guest stars. John Ritter"Ted" was a very well known actor at this time. You knew that he was either the villain or the victim of the ep, and be gone by the end. At least they cast him against type, as he was a comedian and all round nice guy.
BTVS did more than just about any other series in stretching these storytelling boundaries across its run time.
I have to come to the same conclusions about robots (androids) passing as human and other acts of "weird science" in Sunnydale.
I try to give Joyce the benefit of the doubt and assume she apologized off camera, but it really should have been shown.
Joyce would have been much more strongly under the influence of the drugs than anyone else, and maybe the drugs were supernatural, if Ted got them in Sunnydale.
I like to speculate that Buffy immediately mistrusted Ted partly because of her Slayer senses. Maybe she could sense that Ted didn't have a soul, or that there was something off about the way he moved. But because of the situation, everyone (including herself and the viewer) assumes that her instant dislike is just teenage insecurity about her mom dating someone new.
Since we jumped from night to the next day, I'd assume she apologized at night.
Your reaction was so good. I was feeling you. This was a low point for Ms. Joyce Summers lol I'm blaming it on the xtacy pizza and cookies. lol
she wasn't as bad as she was in the witchhunt episode.. this one's sad but makes sense for her character at least
My friends and I always yell, 'bad mom' at Joyce, mainly as a joke, but yes she makes some rough decisions
Naur because the show makes it nigh impossible to root for Joyce for the first two seasons or more lmao. She's so dumb for no reason 😂 they needed her to be for the plot to work though, very YA genre typical clueless parenting. I just can't take her seriously.
Joyce grows on you but it does take a while... don't google her though! You'll definitely run into spoilers
Again we see the show with a mirror on social comment. The situation with Ted, where on the face of it he seems nice as pie, but is very dark and evil, but worms his way into all Buffy's friends with Buffy becoming marginalised. Many children resent a new partner being introduced into their lives when a divorced parent starts dating, and sometimes with good cause, as many exploit and abuse their position regarding a child that is not theirs. This show never shyed away from taking on such themes. Great satisfaction when Buffy finally sees to Ted. BTW always enjoyable watching younger people reacting to this and not getting the pop-culture references. The Captain and Tenille were an American husband and wife duo who were massive in the 70's and had a string of pop hits. It was a real coup for the show to get John Ritter to be in it a huge iconic actor in 70s and 80s.
things do get said and done off screen you know. i just assumed that stuff was sorted out before that last scene with joyce. it's baffling to me that you'd assume otherwise. i tend to make assumptions without a negative tilt. if buffy is happy in the scene i think that tell us all we need to know about if they worked it all out to her satisfaction.
I got very triggered back when this stuff first came out. I get it. It's still so frustrating even though I know what happens.
Nah, you're right.
Joyce is a terrible mother.
❤🧡💛💚💙💜
A guy named Warren created Ted 😂
Bumping your table really bothers me. I wish you would either stop, or get yourself a mic stand.