It’s very perfect watching this while waiting for the full Wolf of 359 massacre to come out. This battle alone truly shows how terrifying the Borg really is. It scarred me when Picard got assimilated and destroyed the entire fleet knowing all Starfleets strengths and weaknesses. Best. Space Battles. Ever. Hands down.
True that. However, you must admit, TNG's "Best of Both World's" did help save Star Trek: The Next Generation from an early cancellation. Unfortunately from all the articles I've read, TNG was cancelled after the season 7 finale for reasons I forget.
Same here. Once JTVFX is finally able to release "Wolf 359: The Massacre (Part II)", I plan on watching all 4 Wolf 359 parts together. It's gonna truly be AWESOME!!! The truly incredible work that JTVFX has put into his/hers/their production videos is just so cool! I mean, JTVFX has even done their homework when it came to researching the battles background from the number and classes of the involved ships right down to Admiral Hansan's planning stage of how his Federation fleet proceeded to attack the Borg Cube.
Excelsior Melbourne was being decommissioned and replaced with Nebula Melbourne. They needed every ship so sent everything. Yamagauchi was a refit Ambassador with caps on the nacelles and different impulse engines. You are missing USS Endeavour...Nebula class which survived Wolf 359, Sector 001 in 2373 and the Dominion War...the luckyest ship in the fleet under Captain Asimov
These informations are not canon. The only ships we have on-screen evidence are listed on the "memory alpha" page of the battle of Wolf 359. There is only one confirmed "Melbourne" (Excelsior class). And this ship was quite significant as it was the flagship of the Admiral, who tried to convince Riker beforehand to take her command. When he denied to be the commanding officer of the Melbourne, many people got pissed at him. Because he was blocking the post as XO on the Enterprise. So this would speak against your theory that the Excelsior class Melbourne was a mothballed ship that was thrown into battle, because they had no other choice.
@Gentleman...Driver Wasn't My theory....Memory Alpha has the entire article on the Nebula class USS Melbourne. Both ship models were labelled Melbourne as the Nebula Class was used in Best Of Both Worlds and the Excelsior model was used in Emissary
@@krishouston3747 let me see if my parents included it in a folder of stuff they sent me. I'll look tomorrow cuz I just got out of 4 hours of college. Fucking going to college in your 40s at night fucking blows
Nice Showcase!!! "The fight does not go so well, Enterprise, we are falling back to regroup. Rendezvous with the fleet at-" and the signal cut-off was due to friendly collision...😮
“You must’ve heard about the Battle of Wolf 359. It’s like… it’s like space itself was burning. 50 of us made it down to the life deck. But, uh-oh… there’s just one life pod. Ten seats.”
😲INCREDIBLE.. Captain.. love this battle.. and all those ships was impressive and that Borg cube at the start , loved the design of it and even the door hatch opening for a Borg Sphere .. wicked.. again amazing.. and I would think so too, some ships must have collided.. or the Borg Cube multi fired and well.. eeh.. I could imagine being on 1 of the bridges and seeing all this going on.. wow.... this was a battle for the books.. loved the models and thank you MSR-1701... crikey.. amazing to watch ... Still well done Captain.. !😊🖖
i just started watching. the note says battle starts at 2:00. but the video is not that long... so i gotta figure its gonna be bad for the feddies i think retrobadger will make an excellent drone.
Rumors say it was commanded by Captain Homer Simpson. The Borg have assimilated him, and he became Dohcutus of Borg. 😉 ruclips.net/video/SsJK6t4g45w/видео.html
It has been suggested that during the massacre, not battle, of Wolf 359 the Borg used gravimetric fields and tractor beams to smash the debris of damaged and destroyed starships into the remainder of the Federation fleet, so a collision wouldn't be too far out of the question.
Yes, apparently there were two Melborne's at the battle. The old Excelsor class was being decommissioned and the replacement on the verge of being active during "Best of Both Worlds". Although I'm not sure if it was a Galaxy Class where the saucer was yet to be completed or a Nebula class.
Wow, I never before realised that Starfleet had to scrape that deep at the bottom of the barrel to assemble the fleet for Wolf 359. Why do I get the feeling that 2 or 3 of Siskos Pimphand-Class ships could wipe out that fleet as well?
Excelsior Melbourne was decommissioned but was recommissioned as the U.S.S. Roma NCC 62451 for the imminent battle with the borg since Starfleet need every available starship possible.
According to what I heard on a Star Trek Spacedock video I saw on the Nebula class there were 3 variants of it one was a pursuit variant with 3 warp nacelles,another had the weapons pod and the 3 had a large sensor unit on it as like a Starship equivalent of an A.W.A.C.S.
The major issue with this recreation is it lacks the knowledge of Picard that the Borg assimilated. From what I researched in the 1990's the Melbourne was leading the battle then pulled back as the Cube engaged it. the other ships tried to provide cover fire. the Cube allowed itself to be hit by them. Once the Melbourne was destroyed, the Cube begun hitting the other ships at multiple angles. The fleet was not prepared for so many weapons fire coming at them. The battle was over just under 10 minutes.
You are right about the Melbourns the Excelcior one had just been decommissioned but since it hadn't been stripped of it's systems it was reactivated. The other ship was a Nebula.
I definitely remember playing a game back in the day - based on an Excelsior on its way to the battle. USS Renown or something. Half decent game, basically it was a video you had to make choices on... pretty engaging for the day.
Actually, it was Star Trek Borg, and the ship was the Excelsior class USS Righteous. It is included in the JTFX recreation of Wolf 359 here on youtube as it had many scenes involving it... It is technically not canon, but was close enough to be included.
I'm going with Spock dying as the biggest moment. Second would be destruction of the original Enterprise. Locutus reveal may well be third, though. Few TV series have ever pulled off such an effective cliffhanger.
Venom Geek Media has a good breakdown of the Battle of Wolf 359 as well as Sector 001. Although this video is fun to watch; swarm tactics were not used in this battle. Skirmish lines were used allowing vessels to fall back to as the Borg pressed forward in their attack. The Federation had never fought any enemy like this before and learned to change their tactics and strategy. Please check out his videos. They're great! 😃
If i remember right the ships were sent in waves as there was meant to be Klingon ships were in a wave. As far as i know there was only one Melbourne which was the Admiral’s ship. There was another Excelsior Class which was in the interactive game Star Trek Borg which was sent through time thanks to Q
There was indeed Klingon ships too. Admiral Hanson confirmed they were on the way and also said they considered communicating with the Romulans too. Of course it's unknown if they joined in or not.
Could you mod the Borg cube to completely remove its impulse engines? I think a canon version would likely sit completely still and fire while the smaller ships manoeuvred around it
"when the machines got to us, it wasn't a battle, it was a slaughter." Wolf 359 was so aptly named as the sheep of starfleet where feed to a unstoppable fenris. Can you do a what if the Klingon reinforcement fleet arrived in time?
I read a story about how the producers opened a box of Starfleet ship pieces and put together new ship models on the spot. The Mars defense drones were actually modified models of submarines. The budget must have been very tight.
yeah, thats actually a technical oversight of most sci-fi universes - any species that is able to accelerate even a relatively small object to nearly light speed has a weapon on hand that could destroy a small moon by kinetic energy alone. a small shuttle going 95% lightspeed would have an impact energy around that of the chicxulub asteroid that killed the dinosaurs. no phasers or photon torpedos needed.
I must say that your research into the what Federation ships comprised of the Federation fleet that engaged the Borg at the Battle of Wolf 359 is impressive. However, according to JVFX, there may have been at least 1 Galaxy-class which would've been commanded by Admiral Hanson himself, and according to various RUclips video resources, Admiral Hanson's fleet engaged the Borg Cube in waves, each wave comprised of only just a handful of ships within the larger fleet of 40+ Federation ships. The plan was, each wave would engage the Borg Cube, fire several volley's then disengage to allow the next wave of Federation ships to attack and allow the previous wave to repair any damage taken in the assault. This plan of Admiral Hanson's was sound, but I think he drastically underestimated the true power and fierceness of the Borg Cube in the end. As for the two USS Melborn ships, apparently (also according to JVFX) the USS Melborn was originally an Excelsior-class ship but it's decommission celebration got cancelled due to the Borg invasion, and the other USS Melborn was the Proto-Nebula-class (the one you commanded during the battle).
Thanks Kris! Yes, there are varying different sources. Apparently the original script did mention that the Admirals ship was indeed a Galaxy Class! I wish I could have set it up in Waves. Agreed Admiral Hanson plan was sound, a very Brave battlefield Commander. Funny how there were 2 USS Melbourne's at the battle! Thanks for the Info 🖖
@@RetroBadgerGaming Your so very welcome man! I don't know how much of FTVFX Battle of Wolf 359 videos is in fact part of what's officially been written as part of the TNG scripts, but it's my best guess the main reason for the actual battle taking place on TV is due to high show production cost, while the other being TV show length.
There definitely were two ships called Melbourne present at Wolf 359. One an Excelsior class and the other the Nebula class you're flying around in. I swore Ex Astris had pictures of the models from Wolf 359 and one was that proto Nebula class. It showed it being the U.S.S. Melbourne. I was surprise by the ship collision and I couldn't help but chuckle. I doubt that actually happened. That's funny the Oberth got one shotted off. That's exactly what happened in Deep Space Nine's pilot "Emissary".
There was one other Weapons Mod Nebula probably worth including because of how cool it’s story is; the USS Endeavour, which fought and survived Wolf 359 to then go on and survive the Battle of Sector 001 (apparently, as a little Easter Egg, the Endeavour is the Nebula that is shown on screen) at the start of First Contact AND survive the Dominion War… Talk about bad-ass
I love the fact that of all the phaser arrays targeting and firing on the Cube there is none more distinct than the screeching phasers of the Miranda Class starship!
What ship was Admiral Hanson on?I would have thought he was in an excelsior.Riker had just turned down the Melbourne, so was the Admiral in the other?or another ship entirely? EDIT: According to Memory Alpha the script says Hanson was in a Galaxy class.
Thats not correct. Admiral Hanson was on board the Melbourne (Excelsior class). Hours/days before the battle, the ship was offered to Riker as his first command. But he denied because he wanted to stay on the flagship of the fleet.
Love the best of both worlds, especially part one. The atmosphere of that episode was brilliant. Picard talking to Guinean in the early hours of the morning about his worries and the fact they are facing certain death, and we had already seen briefly what the Borg could do in the first encounter. Really wish that had been one of the TNG movies instead of the season 3 cliffhanger.
I don't know about anybody else, it just breaks my heart to see phasers have no more power than a water gun, it just needs to be more powerful than just that.
You have to take into account the fact that locutus AKA Picard and all his knowledge was used during this battle.. which means he likely have the ability to literally bring down the shields of certain starships or circumvent defenses based on his personal knowledge of Starfleet tactics, battle operations and ship design
You missed a few.. the excelsior study model, and if the aftermath video holds true the federation class refit. There was a melborne and a melbourne class.. that isnt confusing at all though lol.. if i can think of any more ill mention them.
Was the borg cube more effective in best of both world because of the assimilated Picard? Would the battle of gone drastically different without Picard being assimilated?
Yup. The Borg wouldn't have known what kind of tricks to expect from Starfleet and wouldn't know anything about Starfleet technology except what little they might have learned during their first encounter with the Enterprise, so it'd taken them longer to adapt, maybe even long enough for Starfleet to disable the Cube, if not destroy it. 🙂
@@MisterMarinI’m fairly certain the borg were pretty immune to starfleet weapons by the time Q brought the enterprise back to known space in Q-who. Yeah they had the frequency modulation going but that wouldn’t take long to adapt to. They had already adapted to the shield nutation before Picard was taken. I think you’re right that the battle was faster cause Picard’s knowledge helped them destroy the armada faster...but i doubt starfleet would have done much damage regardless of Picard’s assimilation.
I've heard the "Melbourne was Galaxy-class" theory before. The "two Melbournes" and/or "Melbourne was Nebula-class" theories are newer (to me). If there were two Melbournes in the task force, even Starfleet at its clunkiest wouldn't deploy for possible battle with two ships having the same name. The potential for fatal confusion in audio communication would be unacceptable ("Melbourne! Borg cube approaching your aft starboard! Take evasive action to port! No - not you!!! The OTHER Melbourne!!!"). One (probably whatever was just reactivated from mothball fleet) would be at least temporarily renamed. If nothing else, they would be designated Melbourne-A and Melbourne-B (or whatever suffix from their registration numbers). --- I tend to think there was only one Melbourne, and it was Excelsior-class. All the references at the beginning of BOBW were to Melbourne being the ship that brought Shelby and the Admiral out to meet Enterprise. If the Excelsior-class ship was already reactivated to be part of Admiral Hanson's group and there was another, newer Melbourne on regular duty, then the old one would already have been renamed. Picard and Riker discuss the prospect of promotion to captain of Melbourne: "It's a fine ship". Picard wasn't talking about a ship that had just been reactivated from mothballs and would still be sorting out crew. He was talking about an active, commissioned ship & crew. And - clearly not talking about a Galaxy-class. Galaxy-class was Starfleet's new top-of-the-line, and it would have been an order of magnitude more difficult for Riker to turn down a jump from XO of one Galaxy to Captain of another. Some people hang their hats on the footage of Hanson during the battle - that he was on a Galaxy-class battle bridge. I think it's pretty well-established that Starfleet bridges and bridge stations are modular - and that Hanson could have been on the bridge or auxiliary bridge or CIC of any class of ship. An older ship design probably gets regular updates to control stations to keep up to modern performance capabilities and to standardize operation. Also, the primary source material doesn't give any visual support to the notion that Melbourne was anything other than what was shown in the beginning of BOBW part 1. The debris field post-battle was limited by special effects and budget to a little bit of kit-bashing. Shelby calls out the wreckage of the Melbourne, but we don't see which piece at the same time. The flashback in "Emissary" doesn't change that, either. Most of the ship names that are known are because of a screen display in some later episode.
This was great! If the game will take it, you should try this again but just double the various types of Federation ships. See what it would have actually taken. Also didn't the Klingons send some ships as well?
Would like to request more of the Aftermath Niagara and New Orleans, as there are significant differences between the Aftermath models and other BC models of these ships. Also, the bevy of Aftermath ships yet to be shown (TOS, Klingon, Romulan and DS9 Kitbashes like the Elkins) 😂😎
I recently thought why didn't Starfleet take the weakest ships, put all the civilians on board, and at least let them escape. DS9 ep1 shows that they didn't do this. Why? Also, any time you use the Oberth class ship in a video call it what it is...the Red Shirt class. Love the vids!!
Captain Picard being assimilated gave all the knowledge he had of all of Starfleet's capabilities and current ships in use and their strengths to the Borg. So in effect...ALL of Starfleet's weapons and ships were completely useless. Any strategy they came up with The Borg already knew.
That cube was probably powerfull enough to take on the whole even without Picard's insight. However, his assimilation sure made the battle into a pretty trivial matter for the Borg.
It's never going to happen but I'd love to see a mini series set on the constitution class that was. That ship would have been in commission for the hole of the lost era.
The whole regeneration trope is Star Trek version of magic. And I don't see the federation ships firing toroedos. What am I missing? I'd like to see you increase the number if federation ships until at least draw.
There's one more thing you need to be corrected on. There's actually 3 Excellicor class ships in this battle. You forgot to add the U.S S. Righteous. There's a story where Q transported a cadat to help save the Righteous from destruction and succeed. So in order to protect the timeline Q brought the ship exactly 10 years into the future exactly at the point in time when the cadat came from.
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
It’s very perfect watching this while waiting for the full Wolf of 359 massacre to come out. This battle alone truly shows how terrifying the Borg really is. It scarred me when Picard got assimilated and destroyed the entire fleet knowing all Starfleets strengths and weaknesses. Best. Space Battles. Ever. Hands down.
Yeah I agree, I can’t wait for that battle.
True that. However, you must admit, TNG's "Best of Both World's" did help save Star Trek: The Next Generation from an early cancellation. Unfortunately from all the articles I've read, TNG was cancelled after the season 7 finale for reasons I forget.
I think we’re all eagerly waiting for JTVFX’s conclusion video of Wolf 359 next month!
Me too, looks amazing!
Indeed! Blown away by their work. Paramount need to sign him up! Really hope we get a movie based on Wolf359 someday.
Yes!
Same here. Once JTVFX is finally able to release "Wolf 359: The Massacre (Part II)", I plan on watching all 4 Wolf 359 parts together. It's gonna truly be AWESOME!!! The truly incredible work that JTVFX has put into his/hers/their production videos is just so cool! I mean, JTVFX has even done their homework when it came to researching the battles background from the number and classes of the involved ships right down to Admiral Hansan's planning stage of how his Federation fleet proceeded to attack the Borg Cube.
6:06 Bitterman: "Man, I got a problem here! Some cowboy just clipped me on a way in, man!" ~ Quake 2 Intro
😂😂😂
Excelsior Melbourne was being decommissioned and replaced with Nebula Melbourne. They needed every ship so sent everything. Yamagauchi was a refit Ambassador with caps on the nacelles and different impulse engines. You are missing USS Endeavour...Nebula class which survived Wolf 359, Sector 001 in 2373 and the Dominion War...the luckyest ship in the fleet under Captain Asimov
These informations are not canon. The only ships we have on-screen evidence are listed on the "memory alpha" page of the battle of Wolf 359.
There is only one confirmed "Melbourne" (Excelsior class). And this ship was quite significant as it was the flagship of the Admiral, who tried to convince Riker beforehand to take her command. When he denied to be the commanding officer of the Melbourne, many people got pissed at him. Because he was blocking the post as XO on the Enterprise.
So this would speak against your theory that the Excelsior class Melbourne was a mothballed ship that was thrown into battle, because they had no other choice.
@Gentleman...Driver Wasn't My theory....Memory Alpha has the entire article on the Nebula class USS Melbourne. Both ship models were labelled Melbourne as the Nebula Class was used in Best Of Both Worlds and the Excelsior model was used in Emissary
That is Captain Amasov’s ship who was one of Starfleets greats alongside Picard.
@carolinehirst4921 Indeed..Getting a posting there would be very lucky, how many ended up on Miranda Class ships 😬
That's not actually true, that's someone's head cannon lol.
This reminds me of the poem I wrote about the Battle of Wolf 359 8th grade for English class. It was 1994.
Do you remember that poem, if so, can you share it??
@@krishouston3747 let me see if my parents included it in a folder of stuff they sent me. I'll look tomorrow cuz I just got out of 4 hours of college. Fucking going to college in your 40s at night fucking blows
@@danieldunlap4077 Just one more proof of an ever changing economy!
I looked. Don't have it. It was written as well as a 14 year old could write it.@@krishouston3747
Nice Showcase!!!
"The fight does not go so well, Enterprise, we are falling back to regroup. Rendezvous with the fleet at-" and the signal cut-off was due to friendly collision...😮
🤣🤣🤣🤣 I'm literally rolling around the floor with laughter at that one! 🖖
“You must’ve heard about the Battle of Wolf 359. It’s like… it’s like space itself was burning. 50 of us made it down to the life deck. But, uh-oh… there’s just one life pod. Ten seats.”
Which is Admiral Hanson's flagship - it was suppose to be a galaxy class.
USS Auriga
😲INCREDIBLE.. Captain.. love this battle.. and all those ships was impressive and that Borg cube at the start , loved the design of it and even the door hatch opening for a Borg Sphere .. wicked.. again amazing.. and I would think so too, some ships must have collided.. or the Borg Cube multi fired and well.. eeh.. I could imagine being on 1 of the bridges and seeing all this going on.. wow.... this was a battle for the books.. loved the models and thank you MSR-1701... crikey.. amazing to watch ... Still well done Captain.. !😊🖖
i just started watching. the note says battle starts at 2:00. but the video is not that long... so i gotta figure its gonna be bad for the feddies
i think retrobadger will make an excellent drone.
🤣🤣 The video length was efficient 🖖
I love the Springfield class... So unique
Rumors say it was commanded by Captain Homer Simpson. The Borg have assimilated him, and he became Dohcutus of Borg. 😉
ruclips.net/video/SsJK6t4g45w/видео.html
what about the USS Saratoga a maranda class starship that sisko was on
There is a Saratoga in the Miranda pack for BC RE, if one wants to use it.
I think there is also one in the Aftermath mod? Would need to recheck
Also forgot the USS Righteous, think it was an excelsior class. Was in a PC game and audio book called Star Trek: Borg
Good video. I liked seeing all the different starfleet ships.
i just love the Excelsior class
It has been suggested that during the massacre, not battle, of Wolf 359 the Borg used gravimetric fields and tractor beams to smash the debris of damaged and destroyed starships into the remainder of the Federation fleet, so a collision wouldn't be too far out of the question.
Yes, apparently there were two Melborne's at the battle. The old Excelsor class was being decommissioned and the replacement on the verge of being active during "Best of Both Worlds". Although I'm not sure if it was a Galaxy Class where the saucer was yet to be completed or a Nebula class.
it was a retconnned explaination for having two Melboarnes.
Wow, I never before realised that Starfleet had to scrape that deep at the bottom of the barrel to assemble the fleet for Wolf 359. Why do I get the feeling that 2 or 3 of Siskos Pimphand-Class ships could wipe out that fleet as well?
Pimphand?
@@MSR-1701 Siskos Pimphand class aka Defiant class
@@adamantu ah, gotcha!
Excelsior Melbourne was decommissioned but was recommissioned as the U.S.S. Roma NCC 62451 for the imminent battle with the borg since Starfleet need every available starship possible.
According to what I heard on a Star Trek Spacedock video I saw on the Nebula class there were 3 variants of it one was a pursuit variant with 3 warp nacelles,another had the weapons pod and the 3 had a large sensor unit on it as like a Starship equivalent of an A.W.A.C.S.
Glad you included the constitution refit, that was there.
The major issue with this recreation is it lacks the knowledge of Picard that the Borg assimilated. From what I researched in the 1990's the Melbourne was leading the battle then pulled back as the Cube engaged it. the other ships tried to provide cover fire. the Cube allowed itself to be hit by them. Once the Melbourne was destroyed, the Cube begun hitting the other ships at multiple angles. The fleet was not prepared for so many weapons fire coming at them. The battle was over just under 10 minutes.
You are right about the Melbourns the Excelcior one had just been decommissioned but since it hadn't been stripped of it's systems it was reactivated. The other ship was a Nebula.
I definitely remember playing a game back in the day - based on an Excelsior on its way to the battle. USS Renown or something. Half decent game, basically it was a video you had to make choices on... pretty engaging for the day.
Actually, it was Star Trek Borg, and the ship was the Excelsior class USS Righteous. It is included in the JTFX recreation of Wolf 359 here on youtube as it had many scenes involving it... It is technically not canon, but was close enough to be included.
Great battle, I’ve seen all those ships in the shipyards book, nice to see them again in action👍
I'm going with Spock dying as the biggest moment. Second would be destruction of the original Enterprise. Locutus reveal may well be third, though. Few TV series have ever pulled off such an effective cliffhanger.
There was also the USS Righteous, an Excelsior class from the game Star Trek: Borg.
Venom Geek Media has a good breakdown of the Battle of Wolf 359 as well as Sector 001. Although this video is fun to watch; swarm tactics were not used in this battle. Skirmish lines were used allowing vessels to fall back to as the Borg pressed forward in their attack. The Federation had never fought any enemy like this before and learned to change their tactics and strategy. Please check out his videos. They're great! 😃
If i remember right the ships were sent in waves as there was meant to be Klingon ships were in a wave. As far as i know there was only one Melbourne which was the Admiral’s ship.
There was another Excelsior Class which was in the interactive game Star Trek Borg which was sent through time thanks to Q
There was indeed Klingon ships too. Admiral Hanson confirmed they were on the way and also said they considered communicating with the Romulans too. Of course it's unknown if they joined in or not.
@@saveus227 the Klingons did join the battle the Romulans didnt
Seven of nine was able to hand over Picard to the federation after he had been a simulation of the Borg
Could you mod the Borg cube to completely remove its impulse engines? I think a canon version would likely sit completely still and fire while the smaller ships manoeuvred around it
The Aftermath Mod has a "Locutus Cube" that barely moves, though I was notified that the released version may have a script error
Great video! I was about to smash that Like button.......until I saw that the number of likes stood at 359. Gotta leave it there!
😂😂 Thanks! 🖖
6:06 even rerouting power to inertial dampeners, resistance is futile!
"when the machines got to us, it wasn't a battle, it was a slaughter."
Wolf 359 was so aptly named as the sheep of starfleet where feed to a unstoppable fenris.
Can you do a what if the Klingon reinforcement fleet arrived in time?
That sounds good 🖖
There were collisions, but the Borg were slamming ships against each other
The Protonebula Could the two small nacelles be nacelles for the saucer after saucer seperation?
An interesting theory 🖖
ty for the video and LLAP!
I read a story about how the producers opened a box of Starfleet ship pieces and put together new ship models on the spot. The Mars defense drones were actually modified models of submarines. The budget must have been very tight.
Wow! I never knew that. Thanks for the info 🖖
Pretty cool. I was hoping Starfleet would pull it off this time.
That was great!!
That was a really really cool battle at Wolf 359 really cool
New Orleans class!
Could a ship warp through the cube?
yeah, thats actually a technical oversight of most sci-fi universes - any species that is able to accelerate even a relatively small object to nearly light speed has a weapon on hand that could destroy a small moon by kinetic energy alone. a small shuttle going 95% lightspeed would have an impact energy around that of the chicxulub asteroid that killed the dinosaurs. no phasers or photon torpedos needed.
I think I'll take the Melbourne out for a spin...
USS Buran - Yeah, watch this action...
Weeeeee!
I must say that your research into the what Federation ships comprised of the Federation fleet that engaged the Borg at the Battle of Wolf 359 is impressive.
However, according to JVFX, there may have been at least 1 Galaxy-class which would've been commanded by Admiral Hanson himself, and according to various RUclips video resources, Admiral Hanson's fleet engaged the Borg Cube in waves, each wave comprised of only just a handful of ships within the larger fleet of 40+ Federation ships. The plan was, each wave would engage the Borg Cube, fire several volley's then disengage to allow the next wave of Federation ships to attack and allow the previous wave to repair any damage taken in the assault. This plan of Admiral Hanson's was sound, but I think he drastically underestimated the true power and fierceness of the Borg Cube in the end.
As for the two USS Melborn ships, apparently (also according to JVFX) the USS Melborn was originally an Excelsior-class ship but it's decommission celebration got cancelled due to the Borg invasion, and the other USS Melborn was the Proto-Nebula-class (the one you commanded during the battle).
Thanks Kris! Yes, there are varying different sources. Apparently the original script did mention that the Admirals ship was indeed a Galaxy Class! I wish I could have set it up in Waves. Agreed Admiral Hanson plan was sound, a very Brave battlefield Commander. Funny how there were 2 USS Melbourne's at the battle! Thanks for the Info 🖖
@@RetroBadgerGaming Your so very welcome man! I don't know how much of FTVFX Battle of Wolf 359 videos is in fact part of what's officially been written as part of the TNG scripts, but it's my best guess the main reason for the actual battle taking place on TV is due to high show production cost, while the other being TV show length.
There definitely were two ships called Melbourne present at Wolf 359. One an Excelsior class and the other the Nebula class you're flying around in. I swore Ex Astris had pictures of the models from Wolf 359 and one was that proto Nebula class. It showed it being the U.S.S. Melbourne.
I was surprise by the ship collision and I couldn't help but chuckle. I doubt that actually happened. That's funny the Oberth got one shotted off. That's exactly what happened in Deep Space Nine's pilot "Emissary".
the Oberth as a science ship was the very definition of canon fodder.
There was one other Weapons Mod Nebula probably worth including because of how cool it’s story is; the USS Endeavour, which fought and survived Wolf 359 to then go on and survive the Battle of Sector 001 (apparently, as a little Easter Egg, the Endeavour is the Nebula that is shown on screen) at the start of First Contact AND survive the Dominion War… Talk about bad-ass
One of the Excelsior class ships was called the USS Righteous, that is depicted in the game Star Trek Borg starring Q :)
I love the fact that of all the phaser arrays targeting and firing on the Cube there is none more distinct than the screeching phasers of the Miranda Class starship!
makes me feel sorry for the crews of the ships they had no idea what they were facing
What ship was Admiral Hanson on?I would have thought he was in an excelsior.Riker had just turned down the Melbourne, so was the Admiral in the other?or another ship entirely?
EDIT: According to Memory Alpha the script says Hanson was in a Galaxy class.
Thats not correct. Admiral Hanson was on board the Melbourne (Excelsior class). Hours/days before the battle, the ship was offered to Riker as his first command. But he denied because he wanted to stay on the flagship of the fleet.
Love the best of both worlds, especially part one. The atmosphere of that episode was brilliant. Picard talking to Guinean in the early hours of the morning about his worries and the fact they are facing certain death, and we had already seen briefly what the Borg could do in the first encounter. Really wish that had been one of the TNG movies instead of the season 3 cliffhanger.
What I don't get is they seem to have sent in all the second rate ships.
One of my preferred moments was the klingons attacking DS9
About the only way I can think of to win this one is to have the entire fleet target one subsystem at a time.
That was my thinking too. Just pick one spot and keep firing even if they cut a hole through. I suspect hiding subsystems is a tech the borg had.
I don't know about anybody else, it just breaks my heart to see phasers have no more power than a water gun, it just needs to be more powerful than just that.
One of the biggest moments was the Jem'Hadar destroying the USS Odyssey - a galaxy class starship to show how powerful the Dominion were.
You have to take into account the fact that locutus AKA Picard and all his knowledge was used during this battle.. which means he likely have the ability to literally bring down the shields of certain starships or circumvent defenses based on his personal knowledge of Starfleet tactics, battle operations and ship design
If it weren't for that collision.......
Plus weren't there also a few klingon vessels and possibly a few romulans present as well.
You missed a few.. the excelsior study model, and if the aftermath video holds true the federation class refit. There was a melborne and a melbourne class.. that isnt confusing at all though lol.. if i can think of any more ill mention them.
Im surprised that your gane could handle this amount of chaos
It's in bc remastered which is incredibly stable compared to the older kobayashimaru. 🖖
That’s a variant of the Nebula with two extra warp nacelles rather than the sensor or weapon pod
there was a galaxy star drive present as well
i remember this and fun fact there was a millennium falcon as one of the background ships for this scene
Was the borg cube more effective in best of both world because of the assimilated Picard? Would the battle of gone drastically different without Picard being assimilated?
Yup. The Borg wouldn't have known what kind of tricks to expect from Starfleet and wouldn't know anything about Starfleet technology except what little they might have learned during their first encounter with the Enterprise, so it'd taken them longer to adapt, maybe even long enough for Starfleet to disable the Cube, if not destroy it. 🙂
@@MisterMarinI’m fairly certain the borg were pretty immune to starfleet weapons by the time Q brought the enterprise back to known space in Q-who. Yeah they had the frequency modulation going but that wouldn’t take long to adapt to. They had already adapted to the shield nutation before Picard was taken. I think you’re right that the battle was faster cause Picard’s knowledge helped them destroy the armada faster...but i doubt starfleet would have done much damage regardless of Picard’s assimilation.
By all accounts Admiral Hanson was on a Galaxy class starship
The oberth class class in a battle is as useful as a boat with a hole in it.
I've heard the "Melbourne was Galaxy-class" theory before. The "two Melbournes" and/or "Melbourne was Nebula-class" theories are newer (to me).
If there were two Melbournes in the task force, even Starfleet at its clunkiest wouldn't deploy for possible battle with two ships having the same name. The potential for fatal confusion in audio communication would be unacceptable ("Melbourne! Borg cube approaching your aft starboard! Take evasive action to port! No - not you!!! The OTHER Melbourne!!!"). One (probably whatever was just reactivated from mothball fleet) would be at least temporarily renamed. If nothing else, they would be designated Melbourne-A and Melbourne-B (or whatever suffix from their registration numbers).
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I tend to think there was only one Melbourne, and it was Excelsior-class.
All the references at the beginning of BOBW were to Melbourne being the ship that brought Shelby and the Admiral out to meet Enterprise.
If the Excelsior-class ship was already reactivated to be part of Admiral Hanson's group and there was another, newer Melbourne on regular duty, then the old one would already have been renamed.
Picard and Riker discuss the prospect of promotion to captain of Melbourne: "It's a fine ship". Picard wasn't talking about a ship that had just been reactivated from mothballs and would still be sorting out crew. He was talking about an active, commissioned ship & crew.
And - clearly not talking about a Galaxy-class. Galaxy-class was Starfleet's new top-of-the-line, and it would have been an order of magnitude more difficult for Riker to turn down a jump from XO of one Galaxy to Captain of another.
Some people hang their hats on the footage of Hanson during the battle - that he was on a Galaxy-class battle bridge. I think it's pretty well-established that Starfleet bridges and bridge stations are modular - and that Hanson could have been on the bridge or auxiliary bridge or CIC of any class of ship. An older ship design probably gets regular updates to control stations to keep up to modern performance capabilities and to standardize operation.
Also, the primary source material doesn't give any visual support to the notion that Melbourne was anything other than what was shown in the beginning of BOBW part 1. The debris field post-battle was limited by special effects and budget to a little bit of kit-bashing. Shelby calls out the wreckage of the Melbourne, but we don't see which piece at the same time. The flashback in "Emissary" doesn't change that, either. Most of the ship names that are known are because of a screen display in some later episode.
Thank you for that very thorough analysis! It’s certainly changed my opinion on things! 🖖
What about the millennium flacon wait that was the battle of sector 001 right?
Haha. That's a very good point. When I redo 001 she'll be there... Flying in the background 🤣🖖
This was great! If the game will take it, you should try this again but just double the various types of Federation ships. See what it would have actually taken. Also didn't the Klingons send some ships as well?
Yes, the Klingon did supposedly. Although we never see it on screen 🖖
Would like to request more of the Aftermath Niagara and New Orleans, as there are significant differences between the Aftermath models and other BC models of these ships.
Also, the bevy of Aftermath ships yet to be shown (TOS, Klingon, Romulan and DS9 Kitbashes like the Elkins) 😂😎
Totally! These ships Definitly need airtime, they are so often overlooked in the Star Trek universe 🖖
It's no wonder Starfleet lost this battle. Almost all the ships in the fleet were as pathetically weak as a ferengi garbage scow.
The Borg are such a good enemy. Intimidating but interesting.
1 year old video, Im saying this to no one 😂
I recently thought why didn't Starfleet take the weakest ships, put all the civilians on board, and at least let them escape. DS9 ep1 shows that they didn't do this. Why? Also, any time you use the Oberth class ship in a video call it what it is...the Red Shirt class. Love the vids!!
There was also one galaxy class starship stardrive that was the flagship for admiral hanson.
The Saratoga, if only it had been in a calmer part of space at the time we'd have a less war crime happy Sisko lol
What kind of throws this off is the Borg Cube is targeting one ship at a time. That's an issue with Bridge Commander though...
Captain Picard being assimilated gave all the knowledge he had of all of Starfleet's capabilities and current ships in use and their strengths to the Borg.
So in effect...ALL of Starfleet's weapons and ships were completely useless.
Any strategy they came up with The Borg already knew.
also all the new tactics to fight them where now worthless as well.
That cube was probably powerfull enough to take on the whole even without Picard's insight. However, his assimilation sure made the battle into a pretty trivial matter for the Borg.
Nice video. You forgot admiral Hansens Galaxy Class.
The second excelsior class was called uss Roma
It's never going to happen but I'd love to see a mini series set on the constitution class that was. That ship would have been in commission for the hole of the lost era.
The whole regeneration trope is Star Trek version of magic. And I don't see the federation ships firing toroedos. What am I missing? I'd like to see you increase the number if federation ships until at least draw.
Atleast one galaxy class other than the enterprise was destroyed too
The game doesn't ley you coordinate your target on the borg cube? I haven't played this game in almost twenty years.
There is no way to order the fleet to target a particular sub system sadly. 🖖
lets not forgot that the oberth was the only survivor because it was the only ship that didnt fire
Lol, in ST First Contact, at least one Oberth Class was present, and it was the first time we saw canon evidence that Oberth have and can use phasers.
What website did they move all the mods to for the Kobayashi Maru mod of STBC?
where were the Klingons i thought that they were on there way for a glorious battle so should have made it to the line
Apparently they didn't make it... missed the fight. Probably to busy singing songs of glorious battles 🖖
Only you can end historical battle with comedy collision.....
😜🖖
I’m having problems installing the mod, how did you installed it?
The Brave Crews of Wolf 359!
Wasn't Wolf's cube much bigger?
The battle was in waves and that was their big mistake. Each wave gave the cube time to regenerate.
What about Spock dying in Star Trek 2 as a big moment ?
Very true. Think I've got some sort of mental block about that event... Don't like thinking about it 🖖
I thought Enterprise was there too and the end.
BC is still the best Trek game.
Oberth class isn't the most robust ☹️
There's one more thing you need to be corrected on. There's actually 3 Excellicor class ships in this battle. You forgot to add the U.S S. Righteous. There's a story where Q transported a cadat to help save the Righteous from destruction and succeed. So in order to protect the timeline Q brought the ship exactly 10 years into the future exactly at the point in time when the cadat came from.
no constitution class ship as the entire line had been scrapped decades earlier
Actually there was a Constitution Refit at the battle, there was debris from it in battle area.
I guess the crew of the oberth were oh crud when they saw the borg.
My research comes up with 37 Federation Ships at this battle. Maybe that's not all cannon?