BUFFED Junker Queen is UNSTOPPABLE

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  • Опубликовано: 9 май 2023
  • Junker Queen got a HUGE buff in the mid-season patch, this what she looks like now...
    LIKE and SUBSCRIBE if you enjoyed the video! Thanks for watching!
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    ► Edited by T_Rev
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    #overwatch #overwatch2 #ow #ow2 #emongg
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Комментарии • 210

  • @mythcat1273
    @mythcat1273 Год назад +491

    Im gonna be honest, i don't really feel like her old self healing made a difference at all, so this buff is amazing

    • @korlin507
      @korlin507 Год назад +40

      Ikr i'd be through 2 team fights with like 3k dmg and only 300 self healing

    • @samjohnson7325
      @samjohnson7325 Год назад +24

      Tbh I thought her bleed was a DOT. I had no idea it had a self heal component. Never felt like it

    • @kawaiku
      @kawaiku Год назад +11

      Same to all 3. I never played her because it felt like I got nothing out from her.

    • @blazedbabe333
      @blazedbabe333 Год назад +7

      @@kawaiku I agree, she was fun when I played her.. just felt like I wasn’t providing enough to the team & more squishy without good cd management

    • @Verdant11686
      @Verdant11686 Год назад +5

      Definitely feels more impactful now! Very rewarding

  • @restfulgolem1682
    @restfulgolem1682 Год назад +128

    20:29 "my comp games have gold, and my quick play have flats and emongg" had me rolling 😂

  • @jordanbutler8530
    @jordanbutler8530 Год назад +137

    I want to see what a bronze junker queen would look like with this patch. Also, a spectating bingo of the buffed junker queen would be awesome

    • @henyojo
      @henyojo Год назад +4

      im low silver but pre patch i barely contributed to kills because i was dying so quick, post patch these buffs really improve how much she can be in a team fight. plus the quicker ults help a ton

    • @Pinwin42
      @Pinwin42 Год назад

      Had queen on the other team in quickplay Busan, replay is PCT0DK. I'm deep bronze.

    • @truckerdave8465
      @truckerdave8465 Год назад

      I just won 3 games on her in very low bronze. I’ll grab the replays tomorrow

    • @999.69
      @999.69 Год назад

      @@henyojo skill diff tbh

  • @generalcorgi698
    @generalcorgi698 Год назад +98

    I love these changes but I feel they should reduce the ult charge her healing gives

    • @calilycan3213
      @calilycan3213 Год назад +27

      Honestly probably the only changes she needs to make this balanced

    • @panconqueos
      @panconqueos Год назад +3

      They should just make the amount of points she needs to ult higher

    • @generalcorgi698
      @generalcorgi698 Год назад +6

      @@panconqueos Reducing self-heal's ult charge would put her around the same ult charge she had before the patch, while lowering overall ult charge would make her ult charge worse than before the patch

    • @xBezerkerrr
      @xBezerkerrr Год назад +2

      yea ive noticed you can generate her ult insanely quick now, and it was already a fast charging ult

    • @lucifer_rr
      @lucifer_rr Год назад +1

      ​@@xBezerkerrr meh, is it really that bad? She's still not as good as ramatra or even ball Imo. She's fine rn been maining her since I started the game so maybe I'm biased

  • @Tyler-nr6kl
    @Tyler-nr6kl Год назад +32

    I feel like this buff makes her a lot more accessible. Before i feel like she wasnt as good as a tank over all the other choices, and in a 1 tank meta its very important because there is only the 1 per team. So before it was hard (at least for me) to find much utility for her over say, Rammatra, or Sigma, but now with all this healing she can tank pretty well and keep space

  • @Waffl3B1T
    @Waffl3B1T Год назад +70

    I’m loving the buffs on queen. I love her.

    • @andregrima26
      @andregrima26 Год назад +4

      Same

    • @nj4442
      @nj4442 Год назад +10

      I’ve got 70 hrs on her. My personal opinion is some of it will be reverted

    • @Waffl3B1T
      @Waffl3B1T Год назад +6

      @@nj4442 oh I know, I’m just enjoying them while they’re here

    • @nia8385
      @nia8385 Год назад +4

      @@nj4442 maybe not completely reverted, but she's just WAY overtuned now

    • @nj4442
      @nj4442 Год назад +1

      @@nia8385 Yeah exactly. My guess is They will put self-heal down to 1.7 from 2 and maybe decrease the ammo again

  • @sackillusion3323
    @sackillusion3323 Год назад +11

    I can see JQ getting the Doom treatment. Gets buffed, takes over the game, then nerfed to the ground
    But if they do keep the changes, at least increase the Ultimate cost. That moment at 7:37 where he received 50% charge right after just using it is ridiculous

    • @markstewardson4006
      @markstewardson4006 Год назад

      I doubt she will reach Dooms level of taking over games. I think she has enough counters to her that they won't need to nerf her maybe just like you say increase the ult cost or change it so that you can't gain charge for a few secs after using it.

    • @rickandmortyrickandmortyri6788
      @rickandmortyrickandmortyri6788 Год назад

      he also killed more then half of the team to get to 50% charge though

    • @hambster9759
      @hambster9759 Год назад

      ​@@rickandmortyrickandmortyri6788 yea but no ther char can do that

    • @laylapitts967
      @laylapitts967 Год назад

      I think if they made her gain like 50% less Ult charge for say 10 seconds after using her Ult it would fix this issue, without changing the actual build up of gaining her Ult initially.

  • @IBeComfy
    @IBeComfy Год назад +6

    They're absolutely going to give junker the same nerf ash got in regards to her ult. No ultimate charge until the first ults effects are complete.

  • @BustaDiddy3
    @BustaDiddy3 Год назад +3

    I love how the devs recently said that JQ doesn't need any buffs because of her win rate and then proceed to give her buffs a few weeks later lol

  • @mepd3350
    @mepd3350 Год назад +48

    Finally love for JQ I've mained her since I started but her healing was never noticeable, they might need to change her ult charge or else she's gonna be ulting every 30 seconds after her first one

    • @JamUsagi
      @JamUsagi Год назад +4

      I think the issue is that the bleed effect caused by her ult grants ult charge? Not sure but I think that’s what I’m seeing. In which case dialling back or removing that ult charge is probably the best bet.
      If you land a five-player knife or axe though, hell yeah you should get mad ult charge from it imo, especially with how easily the healing can be removed with suzu or antiheal.

    • @Axolity_
      @Axolity_ Год назад

      If it becomes a problem, they should make it so she can't gain ult charge right after her previous ult

    • @mepd3350
      @mepd3350 Год назад

      @@Axolity_ yea like have a 10 second gap where no ult charge or something like that

    • @ShamanThroatWarblers
      @ShamanThroatWarblers Год назад

      It should have higher uptime if kiriko is allowed to cleanse it, doesn't really matter how fast it builds if suzu removes it every 14 seconds

    • @jeremyhorner9531
      @jeremyhorner9531 Год назад

      ​@@mepd3350 probably more like 6-7 seconds since the dots lasts I believe 4 seconds

  • @dragonwing0724
    @dragonwing0724 Год назад +4

    I love that they have buffed junker queen to have her be fun and balanced. Usually blizzard over buffs or over nerfs. It's nice to see them make great changes for once

  • @ProjektTheory
    @ProjektTheory Год назад +35

    They should keep her buffs but increase the charge on her ult. That would a be fair trade off

    • @generalcorgi698
      @generalcorgi698 Год назад

      Do you mean decrease

    • @ProjektTheory
      @ProjektTheory Год назад

      @@generalcorgi698 would increasing the rate the ult charges mean you get her ult less frequently? They decreased the echos ult charge and she gets it more frequently

    • @endless_del
      @endless_del Год назад +11

      ​@projekt6184 the words you're looking for are "ultimate cost". they decreased this for echo, meaning she has to get less "points" in order to charge her ult to full. increasing it for queen means she needs more "points" to charge her ult to full

    • @ProjektTheory
      @ProjektTheory Год назад +8

      @@endless_del basically I just think junker should get her ult less frequently with these changes.

    • @endless_del
      @endless_del Год назад +12

      @@ProjektTheory yeah, i know what you mean! just the language the devs use would be "ultimate cost increase"

  • @Seppe1106
    @Seppe1106 Год назад +7

    The buffs for her are insane. I loved playing her already, and now it's even more fun.
    Played a game of unranked, the enemy only got the first checkpoint so it was over quite quickly, still got 3k self-healing mainly fighting the enemy tank.
    It's amazing xD
    She's gonna get nerfed for sure. I hope it's gonna be a Ult-Charge change and she keeps the healing. Makes her a very viable option to play and is so valuable.

  • @s.owl9
    @s.owl9 Год назад +1

    I heard that having a larger reticle (circular with a center dot) is better for shotguns because it gives you a decent visual of the spread and that makes you more comfortable with shooting even if its not perfectly centered so you end up dealing more damage overall. Also, having the circle with crossed lines on the outside gives you a good idea of what the hitbox (at close range) & trajectory (at long range) of the knife is.
    I might've heard it on KarQ's "best controls for each character" vid and perhaps also from some other top 500 yter while they played JQ. I'm not sure, it was months ago.
    P.S. I wrote this around the time emongg mentioned he missed the shots which is why the Zenyatta lived while bleeding. He seems to have adapted his aim very well around mid way through the vid and lands consistent headshots

  • @Siigrit
    @Siigrit Год назад +3

    I love the increased mag size she feels so much better to play with, now that we dont have to reload as often. Also helps in securing kills that u would quite often have to give up on!

  • @benjaminsostaric3363
    @benjaminsostaric3363 Год назад +5

    New Junker Queen buffs still wont stop my teammates throwing and leaving. Maybe a genji nerf would help.

  • @GirusBetterThanVirus
    @GirusBetterThanVirus Год назад +1

    3:30 the Ana hopping away! 🤣

  • @belo77o
    @belo77o Год назад

    7:45 THE WAY THAT WIDOW WENT FLYING/SPINNING HAD ME CRYING😂

  • @CobraKlNG
    @CobraKlNG Год назад +5

    Bro look how fast he built his ult 4:40

  • @asciiavatar
    @asciiavatar Год назад +2

    I'm loving the JQ buffs, I am no master player in any way, in fact I'm pretty garbage, but she feels so much more fun to play now. Which unfortunately means, once enough people bitch and moan about her, Blizzard will nerf her again.

  • @ering7822
    @ering7822 Год назад +2

    The healing buff is INSANE!!!! You gave yourself 358 health with the ult around 2:15 !!! Went from 92 hp to full in seconds, that was wild!

  • @mythcat1273
    @mythcat1273 Год назад +8

    I love how junker queen can now get more healing than a support if your support is particularly shit

    • @anonymall
      @anonymall Год назад

      Roadhog but woma-

    • @KuraVixen
      @KuraVixen Год назад

      ​@@anonymalljunker queen is basically a balanced roadhog

    • @sometujr6891
      @sometujr6891 Год назад +6

      @@KuraVixen and more fun

    • @alternatecheems8145
      @alternatecheems8145 Год назад

      Also way more charismatic and fitter

    • @philistine3260
      @philistine3260 Год назад

      Ah, yes, the numbers in tab is the sole determination if you're good or not. There are plenty of cases when a second support shouldn't have a lot of healing

  • @emmanuelgaming7005
    @emmanuelgaming7005 Год назад +1

    "My comp games has golds and my quick play games has flats and emongg"
    I'm crying

  • @TheClownQueen
    @TheClownQueen Год назад +2

    As a Junker Queen main, I've been blessed, I can now crush more people than I have before

  • @jijoux9161
    @jijoux9161 Год назад +1

    I legit built a jq ult in less than 10 sec earlier today. 5 people in the little room on numbani first, hit two consecutive beutiful carnages while takoing a shit ton of damage and healing all of it. This new jq is wild

  • @YarehexClips
    @YarehexClips Год назад +3

    I played a game today as jq (she’s always been my fav) and while everyone else had 4-10 deaths, I had 0. The whole game. She’s so self dependent now I love it
    Edit: fixed spelling mistake lmao

  • @brandenmay2577
    @brandenmay2577 Год назад

    OMG Emongg lol 2:17 I knew what was about to happen and it was SPY-SEE!!❤‍🔥🔥

  • @scotu7075
    @scotu7075 Год назад +3

    They somehow made kiriko even more of a must pick

  • @x3genny989
    @x3genny989 Год назад +2

    I won't get over the fact that this absolute pro noticed the hanzo ult then proceeded to walk back into it

  • @standupmoko9618
    @standupmoko9618 Год назад +2

    The patience on the 7:50 play!

  • @lucienpavone3443
    @lucienpavone3443 Год назад

    11:04 i just noticed the dude on the couch zonked out

  • @user-et3xn2jm1u
    @user-et3xn2jm1u Год назад +1

    30 MINUTES OF EMONGG PLAYING JUNKER QUEEN, THE BEST TANK
    I HAPP

  • @Ktjnn
    @Ktjnn Год назад +1

    I bet no one at the office even thought about the ult charge interaction before they shipped it.

  • @amber-xh4gv
    @amber-xh4gv Год назад +4

    this is such a good buff that makes her viable to play. im gonna be honest i never purposefully touched her, only played her in mystery heroes, but i can see myself actually reaching for her in games now

    • @amber-xh4gv
      @amber-xh4gv Год назад

      still upset about ana nade nerf

    • @KommisarFuklaw
      @KommisarFuklaw Год назад +1

      She was played in comp before this patch, she already was good and viable- now she’s getting nerfed after these buffs 💀

    • @amber-xh4gv
      @amber-xh4gv Год назад +1

      @yuor papa if there is a nerf, it shouldn't be a big one. i like her now, the heals on her look a little extreme so id get if they toned that down a little but over-all theyre good changes imo :) ive seen a lot of ppl agree w me that this change makes her seem more worth playing

    • @lucifer_rr
      @lucifer_rr Год назад

      ​@@KommisarFuklaw why would she get nerfed?? What part of her is so broken now? She feels like a tank now tbh

    • @Dirtydom
      @Dirtydom Год назад

      @@lucifer_rrexactly you don’t have to run and hide anymore you can actually front line with her and that’s what a tank should be able to do

  • @L2kneel
    @L2kneel Год назад +1

    As a Winston/Zarya main, JQ has been my 3rd to round out my pool
    This buff I 100% feel, she feels way more imposing

  • @jeshurunanthony4662
    @jeshurunanthony4662 Год назад

    ur lucio/brig on kr was crazyyy

  • @sethlattner6679
    @sethlattner6679 Год назад

    I was waiting for this video the moment I saw those patch notes lol

  • @samzamzow8314
    @samzamzow8314 Год назад

    JQ is so fun right now. The ult build off engaging is RIDICULOUS. and it's nice that she counters ball fairly well making his nerfs feel a bit worse.
    What do you all feel is the JQ counter? Mei seems a lil tough but not an all out counter. Kiriko feels hard to play vs but if you have ana then you can try and bait out suzu with ana nade and then ult.

  • @kaimba14
    @kaimba14 Год назад

    I just realized that besides kiriko, ana also considered hard counter for junker queen since she cannot get heals and ult charge if got anti-heal so that 40 dmg impact on ult really helps that lol
    p/s: im bronze 5 player btw so usually team/opponent use cleanse for counter and rarely using nade offensively

  • @dbdsfinest4820
    @dbdsfinest4820 Год назад +4

    Rejoice, my fellow Junker Queen mains!

  • @angelnavarrete7970
    @angelnavarrete7970 Год назад +1

    All Flats said in this video is
    " THATS CRAAAAZY " 😂

  • @MaverixGT
    @MaverixGT Год назад

    "junkerqueen is unstoppable"
    Literally gets a death within the first minute of the video 😂

  • @JellyJam_Man
    @JellyJam_Man Год назад +2

    I bet she’s gonna have the season 2 doom fist buff treatment😅

  • @uhk839
    @uhk839 Год назад +2

    I might play more tank because of this buff

  • @disagreeabled
    @disagreeabled Год назад

    that 4k near the end of junkertown. it took him 8 seconds to build 50%.

  • @charleshaines9715
    @charleshaines9715 Год назад +1

    So let queen heal herself for spit healing and only burt heal her. So play Bap with her so he can immortality field her, and then burst her up. Lifeweaver might also be an option for the temp invulnerable and he can heal a single target 400 HP quickly. Combo Lucio for speed in and out and then the Queen and Lucio can plan their healing out

  • @soleo2783
    @soleo2783 Год назад +1

    They should make it so you can use her Shift while you swing the axe, feels kinda weird that you can't do it

  • @demi8neko557
    @demi8neko557 Год назад

    Hopefully a Junker meta soon

  • @donnjaburn9196
    @donnjaburn9196 Год назад +1

    I had more healing than my Ana with this new queen buff 💀 it’s actually kinda insane. Granted she wasn’t really a great Ana but even a bad Ana could out heal me easily with her old passive

  • @Yibambe5253
    @Yibambe5253 Год назад

    Hopefully . Now this improves her . Pick rate now . Because she really has a fun kit. Just didnt get much value out her kit before .

  • @anaelnock2989
    @anaelnock2989 Год назад +2

    I think junker queen need the ashe “bug” treatment uf they wanna leave her like this

  • @Atsuru
    @Atsuru Год назад +1

    As much as I like the buffs, I think what would make it perfect is if wound damage recovered into overhealth if at full hp. JQ should be rewarded for playing aggressively and landing her abilities.

  • @matthewvest5191
    @matthewvest5191 Год назад

    Do you all remember the bug where ashe would get ult charge during bob? Round 2 eletric boogaloo

  • @aidenbush8497
    @aidenbush8497 Год назад

    Knife, axe and melee

  • @bushylive3855
    @bushylive3855 Год назад +1

    Junker Queen is now support lol

  • @marvynjeanbaptiste3206
    @marvynjeanbaptiste3206 Год назад

    Yo i thought i was tripping. There definitely is a small screen shake bug for some heroes. I think this happened to me on doomfist

  • @MrClonedzero
    @MrClonedzero Год назад

    This feels like what happened to doom not too long ago. Got big buffs, was over powered for like a week or two then got nerfed back down. I'm dreading the upcoming nerfs for her.

    • @SpiritedFalcon
      @SpiritedFalcon Год назад

      It's probably gonna be smaller compared to Doom since Doom is meant to stay in the trash because the devs hate him.

  • @faelheavymetal
    @faelheavymetal Год назад +2

    Yeah that seems balanced.

  • @mikea3098
    @mikea3098 Год назад +1

    Its an amazing buff but definitely see an ult nerf soon. Just making it build slower

  • @Criza21_
    @Criza21_ Год назад

    junky queen do be cool

  • @craigford33
    @craigford33 Год назад +1

    Doom wasn’t good for 10 days before they nerfed him into the dirt. Now his shield only works if you don’t move. And still doesn’t work on beams period. But these roll face heroes that take zero brain power keep getting buffed.

    • @damianvaldez9390
      @damianvaldez9390 Год назад

      Weird to see someone with enough balls to call out jq like that

  • @ianidas300
    @ianidas300 Год назад

    You are a menace

  • @pelican7235
    @pelican7235 Год назад

    objective unspecified had been there for a while for me

  • @Bebopvicious00
    @Bebopvicious00 Год назад

    She will onky be good of not vs anti nade.

  • @sleep1bun
    @sleep1bun Год назад

    SHE IS BORN TO RULE!!!!

  • @supershaadic1186
    @supershaadic1186 Год назад

    JQ's abilitys are sooooo fun to play with right now. The team comps that I'm seeing are crazy. ow is more fun this way at the moment hopefully we get a decent amount of weeks with her before they destroy her 😢

  • @ameri5903
    @ameri5903 Год назад +3

    I really like what they did with JQ, she felt pretty underwhelming and ok, but now she's extremely fun, she feels good, while also feeling (at least to me), mortal and killable unlike how Hog did at the beginning, because you can still out pressure her while not getting one shot

  • @willwunsche6940
    @willwunsche6940 Год назад +4

    I love the buffs but I am kinda surprised. Junker Queen was already in a pretty decent spot and even getting some Overwatch League time

  • @swishyfishy3688
    @swishyfishy3688 Год назад

    Junker queen is actually a character now instead of a free kill

  • @valeon7303
    @valeon7303 Год назад +1

    My favorite buff is actually the ammo increase
    I kept finding that if I flanked around to 2 characters in the backlines, i could knife, axe, and shoot down 1 but the other would barely escape before I had to reload
    I find i can enage 2 people far more consistently

  • @TheLordofBacon
    @TheLordofBacon Год назад +1

    It’s too good

  • @tmbush25
    @tmbush25 Год назад

    Im a Queen main, and once they increase the ult charge cost, she'll be perfectly balanced

  • @canonbarrett9532
    @canonbarrett9532 Год назад

    Flats really did get widow diffed in the first game😂

  • @perkynaanaa6237
    @perkynaanaa6237 Год назад

    poor Flats getting roasted left, right and centre

  • @masonhenry7522
    @masonhenry7522 Год назад

    She’s so busted, but I honestly don’t mind the new self heal. I think they just need to raise her ult cost and she’ll be perfect

  • @matheusmessias4269
    @matheusmessias4269 Год назад +1

    next video: 69 junk queen ultis

  • @Something125_
    @Something125_ Год назад +2

    Dommy mommy junker queen..👏😩

  • @avoxyan
    @avoxyan Год назад

    Waiting for her nerf coming

  • @Darkchylde50
    @Darkchylde50 Год назад

    Had a blast losing his way to tippy-top lol

  • @Rudy92284
    @Rudy92284 Год назад +1

    There's no way she doesn't get nerfed at least a little bit

  • @cageblume3828
    @cageblume3828 Год назад

    Junker queen best healer frfr

  • @avivcollingwood2236
    @avivcollingwood2236 Год назад

    bro queen Mei reaper Lucio brig would dominate surely

  • @net173h
    @net173h Год назад

    Anyone notice how at 2:18 the ally JQ voiceline played instead of the self/enemy one?

    • @SMTenacity
      @SMTenacity Год назад

      Wish it was a setting where you can toggle which one you hear

  • @theeater3573
    @theeater3573 Год назад

    This screen shake bug is so annoying on zen volley, there are many widows that should've died and my screen just aims in a circle, I tested just standing still holding zen secondary and noticed it moves by itself a tiny bit, that's new, I hate it

  • @phanphan3698
    @phanphan3698 Год назад

    Wait so does ana nade buff JQ self heal?

  • @xenbtw9336
    @xenbtw9336 Год назад

    I think 2 is overturned 1.75 sounds perfect

  • @charleshaines9715
    @charleshaines9715 Год назад

    They're going to need to prevent her from getting ult charge while her previous ult anti is active.

    • @alternatecheems8145
      @alternatecheems8145 Год назад

      Maybe it generates reduced charge? Like 25% less? Do the same with ashe

  • @cageblume3828
    @cageblume3828 Год назад

    Queen ia a fucking final post game boss now

  • @germans_lol7259
    @germans_lol7259 Год назад +1

    If they do nerf her they better not gut her.

  • @Bubwars
    @Bubwars Год назад +2

    I played her randomly before I knew there was a patch... she seemed strong. That being said... I have felt Brig was kinda weaker than she was before he huge shield. I used to be able to play hero Brig... but seemed super dyer/feeder after the bit shield. She seems pretty god-like again. Horse 1 damage is actually a thing... hard to 'ignore' with knight... Rein.

  • @christianhaveman5825
    @christianhaveman5825 Год назад

    10:06 why flats gotta lie like that

  • @Dirtydom
    @Dirtydom Год назад

    Probably needs a ult charge nerf other than that I’m loving her even more than i already did she feels like a tank now

  • @felit11
    @felit11 Год назад

    I never get it in my games but the JK vs JK duels are almost as fun as the reins ones. Hopefully I get more of them now!!!!

  • @PGFXKiu
    @PGFXKiu Год назад

    "You got 50% ult? That's crazy"
    I mean he did murk all 5 people soooooooooo

  • @JANT19294b
    @JANT19294b Год назад

    What's meta now, JQ, Mei, Ashe, Kiriko, Ana?

    • @JANT19294b
      @JANT19294b Год назад

      Gotta get in the habit of melee when rounds rechamber, and you have Gracie in hand.

  • @SuperCripple
    @SuperCripple Год назад

    7:50 --- I'm done. I quit.

  • @matheusvasiliauskassoares4361
    @matheusvasiliauskassoares4361 Год назад

    This could mean a JQ meta? If so, I don't think anyone would be really mad at that

  • @kidbrown96
    @kidbrown96 Год назад

    I'm afraid JQ is gonna get nerfed again

  • @ianheke-yo7te
    @ianheke-yo7te Год назад

    How do the devs forget that buffing her healing will also buff her ult gen

    • @starmoral5456
      @starmoral5456 Год назад +2

      I mean the devs forgot to give ANY buffs to LW

  • @jesse7011
    @jesse7011 Год назад

    Getting ult charge while the enemy is still purple from her ult has to be a bug right? They just fixed ashe for basically the same thing,