So the “Amathatober” month name really bugged me because it just seemed too specific and odd of a detail, but then I realized that it sounded like “Amalthus” and then it clicked: he freakin rename a month after himself. It’s like how Julius Ceaser names the months July and August after himself and his son, Augustus
Well, the Roman senate renamed those months, not Julius Caesar (who was dead by then). But yeah. Also, Commodus (AKA Joaquin Phoenix) renamed all the months for each of his twelve imperial names. He got strangled pretty soon after that :D
I can actually shed light on Dromarch. The name dromarch comes from Welsh legends of a white hound named Dormarch typically associated with the Wild Hunt. In other words, it is literally a prefect name for him, especially given that they wanted Gormott to be Welsh.
Dromarch is actually a name from Welsh mythology that describes a white beast, so it’s fitting that the Gormotti, who speak with a Welsh accent, of the group has a signature blade whose name comes from Welsh mythology.
5:00 when I was playing the game and I saw "Malos" my first though was "¿me pregunto si el es malo del juego?" Also I forgot to mention I speak Spanish, basically I said "I wonder if he is the bad guy of the game?" because for me "Malos" means "Bad guy" but in plural
The solidsnakeism is something i subconsciously picked up on but having you spell it out so plainly suddenly makes so many things make a lot more sense. also i've heard "cleaning up" a script and the like often enough, but extending the metaphor further through buffing/scrubbing/polishing is simple-neat!
I really like the phrases "Architect" and "Elysium", because the term "god" has been throwing around so much in video games and movies that it is having someone tell you that a "god" reated their world is information you are replaying to with a "Duh, this is a fantasy game with magical powers." But "Architect" sounds so... prestigous. Like there is this powerful someone who planned and gave form to everything. It is literally the same thing. But like in "The Accountant", if you are calling someone based on their professioncy instead of their name, then you are doing that because they are really really good at it. And Elysium unlike Paradies sounds like something that was created and not like a "tropical island hidden from the destructive society" and that plays very well into the "Architect" idea. What I want to add to the delivery. In the english version Pyra's "Now place you ahnd on m chest." sounds completly out of tone towards her previous "Thank you, Rex.". It sounds like she is aware of how ridiculous it is to ask a teenage boy that. Further more, if you cut the music the moment she says that line, it realy does sound like the mood breaker it is. In japanese it seems like getting her boobs touched is completly natural to her... What is creepy... Also, somethiing I don't like abou the "manlyness" part is, that it does not work that well if the woman he is saying that too could literally turn him into and medium steak with ease without even using her hands.
I think I like Tim Rogers now. I frequently find his videos obtuse and off putting. But both Xenoblade videos have been genuinely engaging and informative. I'm literally smiling right now. This video made me experience happiness. How dare you, Tim.
Architect aka The Great Architect of the Universe is a common phrase used to refer to the Demiurge. All area names have been turned into slightly less obvious references to the Deadly Sins (the sins don't even fit the areas) The Aegis (indestructible shield of Zeus) makes more sense than having 3 Holy Grail's.
You sir are amazing with your videos! I wasn't sure about Xenoblade Chronicles 2 but after watching more of the game, I'm more confident in picking it up and giving it a try when I purchase a switch. I excitedly await your next video!
Sad that this is the first and only episode of this guy/style I've seen. I really liked this. It makes me want to learn Japanese just so I can enjoy the friggin game.
I'm not sure if you know this already but at 6:30 'Genbu' and 'Seiryuu' are already in the game, not as blades, but 'Genbu' is the name Pandorica(Saika) calls the Tantal Titan (which is a turtle), and Seiryuu is the Japanese name for Azurda/Gramps.
Man I really wish Tim Rogers had just translated the whole game for me. I really wanted to know the full context of the Japanese conversations. So in searching I was amazed I actually found this video explaining some of it. I'm trying to learn Japanese but Its going to be 5-10 years before i get anywhere close to doing it my self. All I know is this guy is a damn Genius and I want to consume his content like Fat kids consume cake.. On the daily! All I know is this man is Kotaku's Spirit animal!
I just don’t understand why the English versions always have to heavily localized and at the end change the original meanings. I played with Chinese localized version and it is very authentical to the Japanese meaning.
The added comparison of voice work is an interesting addition over the purely text based FFVII, makes me interested in seeing how/if things changed in other games that used varied localised accents like FFXII?
I noticed some more situations where the japanese voices are way more embarrassed then the english ones ^^, for example: Where Pyra get's pulled up to the ship and Rex calls her "heavy". (Chapter 2)
Shouting out that Neolithic Chinese symbolism! I remember as a kid thinking Yu Yu Hakusho was so awesome for having an arc based on the same 4 characters. Great video, it made me more interested in the game. I'm trying to learn Japanese, it never occurred to me to try it with games, thanks for the tip!
love it! Would be great if you continue this video with more examples further in the game. this small tip was already great! (and made me chuckle again with the introduction of Gembu later on). Kudos to you,
omfa I love this video! Xenoblade 2 is my new most favourite Switch games. If you can overcome a few minor issues, it's one of the best Jrpgs in this new generation
Just as in nier:Automata , i think that in this game some script changes complete change the personality/tone of some character. Some things are really scene changing (Admittedly not that much in the gran scheme of things) like [SPOILERS FOR CHAPTER 4] When you capture the kids that steal the core crystal of [Blade-bird] Rex finishes the conversation by presenting himself, in a gesture that seems to forgive and aknowledge those kids. But in english he just says something unimportant, and just casually says "im rex btw". i'm still enjoying the game, it is just that some things are a little bit offputing.
I was hoping for a video like this. I even have a draft email sitting in my gmail suggesting that someone look into it, because it's an interesting topic. Luckily professional video game expert Tim Rogers is on the case. The sheer amount of name and terminology changes is making my head spin. Almost all the characters, pretty much all the locations, this video is really only scratching the surface. Incidentally, you've already encounter Seiryuu - Rex's grandfather is the blue dragon. Both Xenoblade and Xenoblade X had a few slightly odd translation choices, the former more so than the latter, but Xenoblade 2 is really out there. While Takahashi Tetsuya has had some things glossed over in the past (they never say 'Jesus' in the English dub of Xenosaga, for example), it's really extensive here, to the point where the theme naming amongst characters and places is heavily obscured or discarded. I understand that translation is not an exact science, but I'm here for Takahashi's particular brand of JRPG strangeness and this goes too far.
FreshNewtype They actually do say “Jesus” in Xenosaga, during a scene where a character is just straight-up reading a passage from the New Testament. But yeah, I’m not crazy about Nintendo’s apparent eagerness to tone down the Judeo-Christian allusions in these games. Though at least they’re not scrubbing them out altogether - “Elysium” and “Divine Architect” are both terms that have been used in the context of Christian religious literature from like the Middle Ages. “Holy Grail” to “Aegis” is more confusing, though.
Yeah, 'Aegis' versus 'Heavenly Holy Grail' definitely left me tilted. Even if it were a timing thing, it's not like there's ways around that. Even in the JP version you sometimes get Shin saying 'seihai' instead of 'ten no seihai'. They could have kept 'Grail' for the shorthand. I mean, sure, Homura isn't a cup, but she also isn't a shield ... necklace ... animal hide ... whatever the aegis actually was. Also this is by far the most anime of Takahashi's games and it's just hard to take that in another language. This probably speaks more to the mental damage years of watching anime has done to me, but I laughed at the maid robot scene, but I can't even imagine that being presented in the localisation's Scottish accents. The localisation also somehow made the Nopons even more annoying, which is crazy because they're SUPPOSED to be annoying.
FreshNewtype Takahashi specifically used the word “shonen” to describe this and the first Xenoblade in contrast to all the other Xeno titles, which kinda sucks because there are a million shonen fantasy JRPGs on the market and a lot fewer mecha space opera ones. I really wish he’d make more of those. Also maybe referring to Pyra as the Grail was deemed too... Freudian.
Um, no it doesn't at all. This is a masterpiece of localization. Instead of simply translating and leaving things as is, they made the content changes holistic so that it fits into an overarching theme. That's really impressive
JacketsNest101 I love Nintendo, but their localizations are absolutely trash tier every time. I bought Japanese version of Xenoblade 2, because I couldn't stand this awful translation. To be honest, just changing the names is unbearable for me, not mentioning about whole humour, personalities and even mythology. I don't give a fuck about Greek mythology. I know nothing about it. If I'm buying Japanese game with pure Japanese setting, characters and humour, I want it to stay Japanese. Just translation, not localization. I'm not retarded like most burgers. I'm aware about other cultures and I'm getting sick if someone knows better what is fitting to the story than original creators.
Why Would you think that there is a Turtle Blade Coming when there is already a Black Turtle Named Genbu? The kingdom of Tantal is In Genbu. The Big Black-Purple Turtle that is pretty freaking cold because of the circulation of its blood, what make the inside of Genbu Ice Cold like the North pole
When you mentioned the name of Dromarch, I immediately noticed it was a made-up name out of the two Ancient Greek words of the noun dromos "δρόμος" meaning "sprint, flight" and the verb archein "ἄρχειν" meaning "to rule" - so Dromarch would be the "Ruler of the sprint". Is the last part of the name actually to be seen as the noun "ἀρχή", closely related to the verb, it can have a ton of meanings, such as "rule" or "origin" or "cause" or even "beginning". But as you mentioned the deep connections to Christian mythology, I'd like to point out an alternative translation to dromos, as the early Christian scripts written in Ancient Greek tended to use words differently than in the Classic or Hellenic Greek period. As such, dromos was often translated as "the course of life". Hope that could help a little!
Wow! That's really cool, though "The course of life" is something which fits Nia better than Dromarch i think, but i guess is just symbolism for her story.
It’s crazy that Tim is so funny he doesn’t have to do such exhaustively researched and informative videos anymore. His videos still have a lot of good info in them but kotaku kind of let’s him do whatever, because we’re all gonna click it no matter what.
Dromarch is obviously based on Dormarch, a hound from Welsh mythology. Bit strange to miss such an obvious reference when going all out of your way with the other names.
There are a couple other minor ones- Azurda's Japanese name is the aforementioned "Blue Dragon," even if he isn't far enough to have met Zeke with the turtle Titan.
To be fair, I'm pretty sure Tim literally has a degree in Chinese. His handle (108) is even a reference to the Water Margin. Welsh mythology is a bit out of his realm of interest.
Probably should note that the Director of the game has noted that the developers always work closely together with the localization (for this game and all others)
That's no justification. Developers don't really have any deep understanding of the nuances of the English language, and most certainly don't read the whole English script, without mentioning the other localized language. That kind of excuse doesn't hold any water to anyone actually familiar with the localization process. So no, noting it would be meaningless.
It's not an excuse, it more against conspiracy-level theories people have about localization. Such as religious references, to Japanese Christianity is this a obscure foreign concept (mostly prevalent in media), whereas to the western world it is incredibly prevalent. Changing references to stuff like greek mythology is to keep with a foreign vagueness.
There was wailing and gnashing of teeth in the 80s from a 1:1 translation. Japanese games have had heavy censoring as a whole ever since on principle. If there's one thing that's constant, it's the Japanese propensity to be slow to evolve. Fear of losing the western market altogether will continue to lead to our versions being significantly changed. I'll take it over completely missing titles due to JP exclusives.
Actually, Spoiler. You totally miss the important part of seiryu and genbu which is the name of Gramps and the nickname of the titans of the Tantal which implies the titans and the blades are changing from one to another through times mentioned in chapter 8. If you know the four divine beasts in China, you will be interested where the hell of seiryu and genbu when the other two appeared as blade.
Can you do another one of these for xenoblade 1 now that definitive edition is out? Can’t tell if it’s the writing, the localization, or both that result in such mediocre script
This game was localized by Nintendo of Europe by the way (who worked closely with the original developers, though NOA does that as well as hard as that may be for some people to believe)
I'm picking this game up for Christmas and I can't decide on whether to play it with Japanese or English VO. Someone help me please!!!! The Japanese I find captures the emotion of the characters really well and is also how the director has originally intended it to be. Problem is I can't tell the difference in accents in Japanese so it all sounds the same in that regard. The English I find doesn't quite hit the nail on the head for me in terms of performance from the voice actors, but I love the different accents giving the game a feeling of scope, and of course, I can understand it. The issue with the English is that the emotion doesn't seem to be captured as well. Prime example in this video is the 'place your hand on my chest' part. I feel Rex's personality in his reaction is night and day between the two and I find the Japanese version of Rex much more endearing. Thoughts people?
As somebody who is far ahead in the game and has looked through the cutscenes both on japanese and english, the truth is that if the english falls short on something, on japanese it might also fall short (I'm talking weird animations where the character don't feel like it should be making that body reaction with that voice). I'm my opinion, just go for english, you will notice this on Nia where she says some off putting shit and falls short with her animations(not commmon but not uncommon either), but the truth is that it is falls short on Japanese too. It happens with Rex too, tho the only difference that does sound better is seen in this video, the part of touching Pyra's chest. Also English subtitles will follow the localized character names, it REALLY was a trip trying to understand who the fuck was who when I listened on Japanese but I don't think thats a con point here tho. Both are good, infact english sounds sometimes wayyyyy too good for what the game animations are trying to convey, then sometimes it falls short. Same with Japanese, both are good, just different.
Play how you want to play it. If anything play it on English and the switch off and see which is better for you. I plan on going through it twice anyways and I understand a bit of Japanese to get through so I'm fine in that department.
I played it all in English and I found Rex's English voice great except for the weird grunts. Sometimes the animations don't really fit the voices (especially Nia) but that's pretty much only at the beginning. Overall the english is good. There's only one character whose voice I really didn't like
I'm still leaning towards Japanese at this point. Tbh, I want to play it in English but I get the feeling the intended emotion from the creators of the game is not quite there in English. Even then that is okay as I can experience it for what it is, but... the one thing that irks me and is super cringe worthy is Pyra's English voice. Like... it's really really rubs me the wrong way
Conclusion : Japanese voice acting with english subtitles if you are not into british voice acting. British voice acting if you love the weird original vibe it brings, such as in xenoblade chronicles, because let's face it, british voice acting is awesome.
I know Nintendo is consistently "behind the times", but it's bizarre that they're still altering games THIS Japanese to THIS extent during localization. They seem to be the only publisher to still be doing so, or at least the only one I'm aware of. I'd love to see Rogers look at the other 3.5 Xenoblade games' localizations, because afaik, other than name changes and the unforgivable blunder that was removing Xenoblade X's Boob Slider, they're much closer to the original versions than Xenoblade 2's localization is.
So I can speak Japanese and played xenoblade in Japanese with English subtitles. I’d rate the translation 6/10. I don’t think anything was blatantly mistranslated but sometimes the translation seemed a bit off. Some English names are more interesting in English I’d say - e.g. I think Mythra sounds cooler than ‘Hikari’(light).
damn all this laughter has displaced my lungs somewhere on the floor with tears clouding my vision to where I now need help locating where the hell my lungs are...some wiper blades for my eyes would be of help too in case you have some spares XD
A big shame about the Holy Grail bit, it significantly changes some symbolism. Rex gaining ownership of the sword was already reminicient of Arturiana, her being called Holy Grail gives a bit more flavor to it than Aegis which only seems to indicate a very superficial duality of Pyra(I do love this name change tho) being a Blade and shield. More so with all the Catholic symbolism being removed, it does seem like a big loss for the sake of some face-value flavor which, at least for me has been a bit shallow. To be fair even if all this stuff was kept it wouldn't change my experience with the plot itself (so far) significantly, but also, as a moderately big fan of Arturiana it would give me somethig to hook my teeth into. I do wonder how this changes how some stuff late into the game reads. I am surprised this didn't touch on the Blushy-crushy/moe thing given how much literature on the subject of "moe" is out there, a wasted oportunity to touch on the subject and see how Xenoblade specifically approached it; giving a choice for Pyra to own the whole "moe" thing or "do it for Rex" was a bit of a clever moment in an otherwise boorish scene.
"Boorish" lol that's kind of the point, the game is very aware of it's anime troupes and likes to mess around with them, much of the sillier stuff is very tongue in cheek
I know a bit of Japanese (Because of my weeaboo teenager past) and I found A LOT that was translated completely different, especially cutscenes and heart-to-heart events concerning Poppy and her mid to final form. She's basically the typical maid waifu type in Japanese but in English she is made to be plain stupid or oblivious to why she was created to be like a maid. A lot of the alterations are imo not necessary as people who are into anime and JRPGs will pick it up so they are undoubtedly familiar with Japanese anime tropes. It's just really bad. The fact that if you didn't play the game with Japanese audio you'd get totally different characters than the original and you'd never even know.
Are you talking about the term desumo? (ですも) Aside from that, if you have some basic understanding of Japanese, you should beable to intemperate some sentences since you can discard the desumo or mo for most sentences. I don't know how to explain to well, but Desumo is a cute phrase. Some character or race uses various ending phrases to emphasize cuteness or traits pertaining to to their character. In Japanese Desumo, is a term the Nonpon always end in. Poppi using desumo, emphasizes her connection to the Nonpons (as their creation). Similarly, Nia uses nya for some scenarios, to emphasis her cat qualities.
I love Nintendo, but their localizations are absolutely trash tier every time. I bought Japanese version of Xenoblade 2, because I couldn't stand this awful translation. To be honest, just changing the names is unbearable for me, not mentioning about whole humour, personalities and even mythology. I don't give a fuck about Greek mythology. I know nothing about it. If I'm buying Japanese game with pure Japanese setting, characters and humour, I want it to stay Japanese. Just translation, not localization. I'm not retarded. An example : I bought Witcher 3 and I expected Slavic setting with Slavic traditions / culture / beliefs. I've got exact what I expected. No name changes, no culture changes and no character changes.
I get that Christianity references have been moved out. Yet, I feel that the new namings provide a more deeper narrative, that roots back to gods and holy beings beyond abrahamic interpretations. Somehow it feels lesser limited in what to expect from the story. Also nice, that Vandham is not translated as VanDamme.
Repeating dialogue is perfectly understandable, there's no reason to west-wash Japanese speech conventions unless they don't make sense. Other cultures exist.
Kotaku, can we PLEASE get more of this guy?!
ok
How about only this guy. I subscribed because of this!
@st4r-lord if you want to see more of him, watch their Superflight video. It's fantastic!
Take my sub too
Ya there is something about his humor and way of speech that I really enjoy. keep it up!
So the “Amathatober” month name really bugged me because it just seemed too specific and odd of a detail, but then I realized that it sounded like “Amalthus” and then it clicked: he freakin rename a month after himself. It’s like how Julius Ceaser names the months July and August after himself and his son, Augustus
Well, the Roman senate renamed those months, not Julius Caesar (who was dead by then). But yeah.
Also, Commodus (AKA Joaquin Phoenix) renamed all the months for each of his twelve imperial names. He got strangled pretty soon after that :D
oh my god you're right
I just remembered that when you start Witcher 3 it simply says ''May, 1272'', so the Japanese are not alone in their ''uncreative'' conventions.
YOOOOO I never thought about that but I think you're right
Holy shit that ending, I lost it and laughed out loud in the office
... okay, good thing I read this before then, in case that happened to me...
I can actually shed light on Dromarch. The name dromarch comes from Welsh legends of a white hound named Dormarch typically associated with the Wild Hunt. In other words, it is literally a prefect name for him, especially given that they wanted Gormott to be Welsh.
I love these Found in Translation videos! I'm so glad you're doing other games, I'd love if this was a series including lots of different games!
Found in translation is my favourite series (for want of a better word) on RUclips! More please!!
Dromarch is actually a name from Welsh mythology that describes a white beast, so it’s fitting that the Gormotti, who speak with a Welsh accent, of the group has a signature blade whose name comes from Welsh mythology.
Actually that is Dormarch
They toned down that last joke in English, but my mind still went to where the Japanese stated outright....
Damn it sure gets cold in Amathatober
5:00 when I was playing the game and I saw "Malos" my first though was "¿me pregunto si el es malo del juego?" Also I forgot to mention I speak Spanish, basically I said "I wonder if he is the bad guy of the game?" because for me "Malos" means "Bad guy" but in plural
I though the exact same, being Mahlos in spanish is a bit less obvious but it was hilarious to see the bad guy named well "bad"
I guess it's a good thing I understood exactly what you said?
Hence why they changed Homura (literally fire) to Pyra (basically the same thing but latin).
The solidsnakeism is something i subconsciously picked up on but having you spell it out so plainly suddenly makes so many things make a lot more sense. also i've heard "cleaning up" a script and the like often enough, but extending the metaphor further through buffing/scrubbing/polishing is simple-neat!
That was by far the most entertaining translation analysis ever.
I really like the phrases "Architect" and "Elysium", because the term "god" has been throwing around so much in video games and movies that it is having someone tell you that a "god" reated their world is information you are replaying to with a "Duh, this is a fantasy game with magical powers." But "Architect" sounds so... prestigous. Like there is this powerful someone who planned and gave form to everything. It is literally the same thing. But like in "The Accountant", if you are calling someone based on their professioncy instead of their name, then you are doing that because they are really really good at it.
And Elysium unlike Paradies sounds like something that was created and not like a "tropical island hidden from the destructive society" and that plays very well into the "Architect" idea.
What I want to add to the delivery.
In the english version Pyra's "Now place you ahnd on m chest." sounds completly out of tone towards her previous "Thank you, Rex.". It sounds like she is aware of how ridiculous it is to ask a teenage boy that. Further more, if you cut the music the moment she says that line, it realy does sound like the mood breaker it is.
In japanese it seems like getting her boobs touched is completly natural to her... What is creepy...
Also, somethiing I don't like abou the "manlyness" part is, that it does not work that well if the woman he is saying that too could literally turn him into and medium steak with ease without even using her hands.
I think I like Tim Rogers now. I frequently find his videos obtuse and off putting. But both Xenoblade videos have been genuinely engaging and informative. I'm literally smiling right now.
This video made me experience happiness. How dare you, Tim.
Architect aka The Great Architect of the Universe is a common phrase used to refer to the Demiurge.
All area names have been turned into slightly less obvious references to the Deadly Sins (the sins don't even fit the areas)
The Aegis (indestructible shield of Zeus) makes more sense than having 3 Holy Grail's.
Dude, spoilers. I hope that was minor.
@@dennislee170
Don't worry, there's only one spoiler in this and you'd never realize it without knowing what the spoiler is
0:32 I'm surprised that there isn't something like that in English language. In Russian we use "Solidsnakeism" quite often
Freaking loving these videos, and the game. Thanks for the entertainment and education!
You sir are amazing with your videos! I wasn't sure about Xenoblade Chronicles 2 but after watching more of the game, I'm more confident in picking it up and giving it a try when I purchase a switch. I excitedly await your next video!
I'm sorry.... I love Tim Rogers.
That's it.
Next calendar I get, I'm crossing out September and replacing it with Amathatober.
Sad that this is the first and only episode of this guy/style I've seen. I really liked this.
It makes me want to learn Japanese just so I can enjoy the friggin game.
I'm not sure if you know this already but at 6:30 'Genbu' and 'Seiryuu' are already in the game, not as blades, but 'Genbu' is the name Pandorica(Saika) calls the Tantal Titan (which is a turtle), and Seiryuu is the Japanese name for Azurda/Gramps.
I knew it! So that's why the names sounded so familiar!
Man I really wish Tim Rogers had just translated the whole game for me. I really wanted to know the full context of the Japanese conversations. So in searching I was amazed I actually found this video explaining some of it. I'm trying to learn Japanese but Its going to be 5-10 years before i get anywhere close to doing it my self.
All I know is this guy is a damn Genius and I want to consume his content like Fat kids consume cake.. On the daily! All I know is this man is Kotaku's Spirit animal!
I just don’t understand why the English versions always have to heavily localized and at the end change the original meanings. I played with Chinese localized version and it is very authentical to the Japanese meaning.
The added comparison of voice work is an interesting addition over the purely text based FFVII, makes me interested in seeing how/if things changed in other games that used varied localised accents like FFXII?
I noticed some more situations where the japanese voices are way more embarrassed then the english ones ^^, for example: Where Pyra get's pulled up to the ship and Rex calls her "heavy". (Chapter 2)
My lungs were deprived at the ending of this ngl.
this guy owns
thanks
Shouting out that Neolithic Chinese symbolism! I remember as a kid thinking Yu Yu Hakusho was so awesome for having an arc based on the same 4 characters. Great video, it made me more interested in the game. I'm trying to learn Japanese, it never occurred to me to try it with games, thanks for the tip!
love it! Would be great if you continue this video with more examples further in the game. this small tip was already great! (and made me chuckle again with the introduction of Gembu later on). Kudos to you,
AMATHATOBER is now my best month in the calendar.
Wow, both of the translations are great, they even out shine one another in areas. Amazing voice actors from both the English and Japanese casts.
11:07 with a Voice like that,no wonder Tora thought she was a Boy,that scene makes much more sense now xd.
Tim Rogers, you’re awesome. Keep up the good work Kotaku!
omfa I love this video!
Xenoblade 2 is my new most favourite Switch games. If you can overcome a few minor issues, it's one of the best Jrpgs in this new generation
Just as in nier:Automata , i think that in this game some script changes complete change the personality/tone of some character.
Some things are really scene changing (Admittedly not that much in the gran scheme of things) like [SPOILERS FOR CHAPTER 4]
When you capture the kids that steal the core crystal of [Blade-bird] Rex finishes the conversation by presenting himself, in a gesture that seems to forgive and aknowledge those kids. But in english he just says something unimportant, and just casually says "im rex btw".
i'm still enjoying the game, it is just that some things are a little bit offputing.
Another awesome T-Man Rogers vid!!!
I was hoping for a video like this. I even have a draft email sitting in my gmail suggesting that someone look into it, because it's an interesting topic. Luckily professional video game expert Tim Rogers is on the case. The sheer amount of name and terminology changes is making my head spin. Almost all the characters, pretty much all the locations, this video is really only scratching the surface. Incidentally, you've already encounter Seiryuu - Rex's grandfather is the blue dragon.
Both Xenoblade and Xenoblade X had a few slightly odd translation choices, the former more so than the latter, but Xenoblade 2 is really out there. While Takahashi Tetsuya has had some things glossed over in the past (they never say 'Jesus' in the English dub of Xenosaga, for example), it's really extensive here, to the point where the theme naming amongst characters and places is heavily obscured or discarded.
I understand that translation is not an exact science, but I'm here for Takahashi's particular brand of JRPG strangeness and this goes too far.
FreshNewtype
They actually do say “Jesus” in Xenosaga, during a scene where a character is just straight-up reading a passage from the New Testament.
But yeah, I’m not crazy about Nintendo’s apparent eagerness to tone down the Judeo-Christian allusions in these games. Though at least they’re not scrubbing them out altogether - “Elysium” and “Divine Architect” are both terms that have been used in the context of Christian religious literature from like the Middle Ages. “Holy Grail” to “Aegis” is more confusing, though.
Yeah, 'Aegis' versus 'Heavenly Holy Grail' definitely left me tilted. Even if it were a timing thing, it's not like there's ways around that. Even in the JP version you sometimes get Shin saying 'seihai' instead of 'ten no seihai'. They could have kept 'Grail' for the shorthand. I mean, sure, Homura isn't a cup, but she also isn't a shield ... necklace ... animal hide ... whatever the aegis actually was.
Also this is by far the most anime of Takahashi's games and it's just hard to take that in another language. This probably speaks more to the mental damage years of watching anime has done to me, but I laughed at the maid robot scene, but I can't even imagine that being presented in the localisation's Scottish accents.
The localisation also somehow made the Nopons even more annoying, which is crazy because they're SUPPOSED to be annoying.
FreshNewtype
Takahashi specifically used the word “shonen” to describe this and the first Xenoblade in contrast to all the other Xeno titles, which kinda sucks because there are a million shonen fantasy JRPGs on the market and a lot fewer mecha space opera ones. I really wish he’d make more of those.
Also maybe referring to Pyra as the Grail was deemed too... Freudian.
Um, no it doesn't at all. This is a masterpiece of localization. Instead of simply translating and leaving things as is, they made the content changes holistic so that it fits into an overarching theme. That's really impressive
JacketsNest101
I love Nintendo, but their localizations are absolutely trash tier every time. I bought Japanese version of Xenoblade 2, because I couldn't stand this awful translation. To be honest, just changing the names is unbearable for me, not mentioning about whole humour, personalities and even mythology. I don't give a fuck about Greek mythology. I know nothing about it. If I'm buying Japanese game with pure Japanese setting, characters and humour, I want it to stay Japanese. Just translation, not localization. I'm not retarded like most burgers. I'm aware about other cultures and I'm getting sick if someone knows better what is fitting to the story than original creators.
i love this guy, plz do the whole game.
The taoist elements are also present in FINAL FANTASY Type-0.
"Now, place your hand on my chest." "wot?"
manicmuffin
Reminded me of Siren's British dub lol
Why Would you think that there is a Turtle Blade Coming when there is already a Black Turtle Named Genbu? The kingdom of Tantal is In Genbu. The Big Black-Purple Turtle that is pretty freaking cold because of the circulation of its blood, what make the inside of Genbu Ice Cold like the North pole
NANI?! More please! this is some good stuff!
i just cried laughing at "UH I LOVE IT I LOVE AMATHATOBER" please i love this guy
This video was fantastic.
When you mentioned the name of Dromarch, I immediately noticed it was a made-up name out of the two Ancient Greek words of the noun dromos "δρόμος" meaning "sprint, flight" and the verb archein "ἄρχειν" meaning "to rule" - so Dromarch would be the "Ruler of the sprint".
Is the last part of the name actually to be seen as the noun "ἀρχή", closely related to the verb, it can have a ton of meanings, such as "rule" or "origin" or "cause" or even "beginning".
But as you mentioned the deep connections to Christian mythology, I'd like to point out an alternative translation to dromos, as the early Christian scripts written in Ancient Greek tended to use words differently than in the Classic or Hellenic Greek period. As such, dromos was often translated as "the course of life".
Hope that could help a little!
Wow! That's really cool, though "The course of life" is something which fits Nia better than Dromarch i think, but i guess is just symbolism for her story.
Dromarch itself comes from Welsh mythology. Dormarch is a white hound that is said to travel with the Wild Hunt.
Aside from you praising the changes and using the English dub clips, I enjoyed this video.
This was fantastic, I need more!
THAT ENDING, SUPERB!
It’s crazy that Tim is so funny he doesn’t have to do such exhaustively researched and informative videos anymore. His videos still have a lot of good info in them but kotaku kind of let’s him do whatever, because we’re all gonna click it no matter what.
If you haven't already gotten up to it yet, spoilers: There's a guy named Zeke von Genbu, who has a pet turtle. Yeah.
7:45 he is an extremely old man, what did you expect him to say?
1 hour jrpg video dropping when?
WHEN
Dromarch is obviously based on Dormarch, a hound from Welsh mythology. Bit strange to miss such an obvious reference when going all out of your way with the other names.
There are a couple other minor ones- Azurda's Japanese name is the aforementioned "Blue Dragon," even if he isn't far enough to have met Zeke with the turtle Titan.
To be fair, I'm pretty sure Tim literally has a degree in Chinese. His handle (108) is even a reference to the Water Margin. Welsh mythology is a bit out of his realm of interest.
Probably should note that the Director of the game has noted that the developers always work closely together with the localization (for this game and all others)
That's no justification. Developers don't really have any deep understanding of the nuances of the English language, and most certainly don't read the whole English script, without mentioning the other localized language. That kind of excuse doesn't hold any water to anyone actually familiar with the localization process. So no, noting it would be meaningless.
It's not an excuse, it more against conspiracy-level theories people have about localization. Such as religious references, to Japanese Christianity is this a obscure foreign concept (mostly prevalent in media), whereas to the western world it is incredibly prevalent. Changing references to stuff like greek mythology is to keep with a foreign vagueness.
the director of every localization says that, doesnt make the outcome any less unfaithful, if it happens to be
LOL yeah we needed everything dumbed down to our Western level. Can't have things we don't understand or recognize in our weeaboo games
There was wailing and gnashing of teeth in the 80s from a 1:1 translation. Japanese games have had heavy censoring as a whole ever since on principle.
If there's one thing that's constant, it's the Japanese propensity to be slow to evolve. Fear of losing the western market altogether will continue to lead to our versions being significantly changed. I'll take it over completely missing titles due to JP exclusives.
I thought Gramps was referred to as the Seiryuu/ Blue Dragon right?
Actually, Spoiler.
You totally miss the important part of seiryu and genbu which is the name of Gramps and the nickname of the titans of the Tantal which implies the titans and the blades are changing from one to another through times mentioned in chapter 8. If you know the four divine beasts in China, you will be interested where the hell of seiryu and genbu when the other two appeared as blade.
I know a bunch of Japanese so I noticed most of these changes while playing the game. Your translations are hilarious though.
can you play xenoblade games in japanese on the switch? do you have to buy the japanese version?
More of this! Please!!!
Great video, Tim!!
This series is absolutely hilarious!!
Can you do another one of these for xenoblade 1 now that definitive edition is out? Can’t tell if it’s the writing, the localization, or both that result in such mediocre script
This video is perfect.
This game was localized by Nintendo of Europe by the way (who worked closely with the original developers, though NOA does that as well as hard as that may be for some people to believe)
This game wasn't butchered as badly as NoA did to NoE. Although the original script must have been bad to start with cuz XC2's dialogue is cringe city
I'm curious about how the Nopon speak in Japanese. Do they speak broken Japanese?
Not really. They are adding "mo" to the end of sentence.
Nopon speak really cutesy and end their sentences in desu mo and say mo instead of meh. Poppi speaks like a Nopon too.
I'm picking this game up for Christmas and I can't decide on whether to play it with Japanese or English VO. Someone help me please!!!! The Japanese I find captures the emotion of the characters really well and is also how the director has originally intended it to be. Problem is I can't tell the difference in accents in Japanese so it all sounds the same in that regard. The English I find doesn't quite hit the nail on the head for me in terms of performance from the voice actors, but I love the different accents giving the game a feeling of scope, and of course, I can understand it. The issue with the English is that the emotion doesn't seem to be captured as well. Prime example in this video is the 'place your hand on my chest' part. I feel Rex's personality in his reaction is night and day between the two and I find the Japanese version of Rex much more endearing. Thoughts people?
As somebody who is far ahead in the game and has looked through the cutscenes both on japanese and english, the truth is that if the english falls short on something, on japanese it might also fall short (I'm talking weird animations where the character don't feel like it should be making that body reaction with that voice).
I'm my opinion, just go for english, you will notice this on Nia where she says some off putting shit and falls short with her animations(not commmon but not uncommon either), but the truth is that it is falls short on Japanese too.
It happens with Rex too, tho the only difference that does sound better is seen in this video, the part of touching Pyra's chest. Also English subtitles will follow the localized character names, it REALLY was a trip trying to understand who the fuck was who when I listened on Japanese but I don't think thats a con point here tho.
Both are good, infact english sounds sometimes wayyyyy too good for what the game animations are trying to convey, then sometimes it falls short. Same with Japanese, both are good, just different.
Play how you want to play it. If anything play it on English and the switch off and see which is better for you. I plan on going through it twice anyways and I understand a bit of Japanese to get through so I'm fine in that department.
I played it all in English and I found Rex's English voice great except for the weird grunts. Sometimes the animations don't really fit the voices (especially Nia) but that's pretty much only at the beginning. Overall the english is good. There's only one character whose voice I really didn't like
I'm still leaning towards Japanese at this point. Tbh, I want to play it in English but I get the feeling the intended emotion from the creators of the game is not quite there in English. Even then that is okay as I can experience it for what it is, but... the one thing that irks me and is super cringe worthy is Pyra's English voice. Like... it's really really rubs me the wrong way
The englisg VA just grew on me.
Conclusion : Japanese voice acting with english subtitles if you are not into british voice acting. British voice acting if you love the weird original vibe it brings, such as in xenoblade chronicles, because let's face it, british voice acting is awesome.
Not in this one to be honest, the English VA really sucks.
Sometimes the voice of Rex is awful in intense scenes, but away from that it's pretty great
@@LithningWolf No its not it sucks! Sorry to burst your bubble. (And no its not an opinion)
@@409gmoney Yes it is ! Sorry to burst your bubble. (And not it's not an opinion)
I know Nintendo is consistently "behind the times", but it's bizarre that they're still altering games THIS Japanese to THIS extent during localization. They seem to be the only publisher to still be doing so, or at least the only one I'm aware of. I'd love to see Rogers look at the other 3.5 Xenoblade games' localizations, because afaik, other than name changes and the unforgivable blunder that was removing Xenoblade X's Boob Slider, they're much closer to the original versions than Xenoblade 2's localization is.
So I can speak Japanese and played xenoblade in Japanese with English subtitles. I’d rate the translation 6/10. I don’t think anything was blatantly mistranslated but sometimes the translation seemed a bit off. Some English names are more interesting in English I’d say - e.g. I think Mythra sounds cooler than ‘Hikari’(light).
The translators just don't want to explain why there are literally female stripper dancer who just happens to be holy grail.
And I'd say it's totally understandable why Gramp had the assumption that pyra is gonna prostitute her self.
It make sense.
Tim, what is Siren's name in japanese?
damn all this laughter has displaced my lungs somewhere on the floor with tears clouding my vision to where I now need help locating where the hell my lungs are...some wiper blades for my eyes would be of help too in case you have some spares XD
I enjoyed this video very much and I also learned Japanese. Thanks!!
A big shame about the Holy Grail bit, it significantly changes some symbolism. Rex gaining ownership of the sword was already reminicient of Arturiana, her being called Holy Grail gives a bit more flavor to it than Aegis which only seems to indicate a very superficial duality of Pyra(I do love this name change tho) being a Blade and shield. More so with all the Catholic symbolism being removed, it does seem like a big loss for the sake of some face-value flavor which, at least for me has been a bit shallow.
To be fair even if all this stuff was kept it wouldn't change my experience with the plot itself (so far) significantly, but also, as a moderately big fan of Arturiana it would give me somethig to hook my teeth into. I do wonder how this changes how some stuff late into the game reads.
I am surprised this didn't touch on the Blushy-crushy/moe thing given how much literature on the subject of "moe" is out there, a wasted oportunity to touch on the subject and see how Xenoblade specifically approached it; giving a choice for Pyra to own the whole "moe" thing or "do it for Rex" was a bit of a clever moment in an otherwise boorish scene.
thats one thing i was really hoping for, to see him mention the moe thing.
3 Holy Grails
nope, that makes no fucking sense
"Boorish" lol that's kind of the point, the game is very aware of it's anime troupes and likes to mess around with them, much of the sillier stuff is very tongue in cheek
見ていてとても面白い！
this is very interesting
It's games like this I wish I knew Japanese because I know I'm missing out on some good funny shit
I started studying it but damn it's still gonna take quite a while for me to be able to enjoy games of this tier :S
Tim Rogers, please narrate everything that happens in my life!
Dromach's Japanese version of his name can also refer to their fire deity.
I know a bit of Japanese (Because of my weeaboo teenager past) and I found A LOT that was translated completely different, especially cutscenes and heart-to-heart events concerning Poppy and her mid to final form. She's basically the typical maid waifu type in Japanese but in English she is made to be plain stupid or oblivious to why she was created to be like a maid. A lot of the alterations are imo not necessary as people who are into anime and JRPGs will pick it up so they are undoubtedly familiar with Japanese anime tropes. It's just really bad. The fact that if you didn't play the game with Japanese audio you'd get totally different characters than the original and you'd never even know.
Mystic Song hey and do you know what poppi says in japanese? I want to know since she ends all her dialogue with the same phrase
Are you talking about the term desumo? (ですも) Aside from that, if you have some basic understanding of Japanese, you should beable to intemperate some sentences since you can discard the desumo or mo for most sentences. I don't know how to explain to well, but Desumo is a cute phrase. Some character or race uses various ending phrases to emphasize cuteness or traits pertaining to to their character. In Japanese Desumo, is a term the Nonpon always end in. Poppi using desumo, emphasizes her connection to the Nonpons (as their creation). Similarly, Nia uses nya for some scenarios, to emphasis her cat qualities.
ならゆん hey, thanks for clearing things up!
I love Nintendo, but their localizations are absolutely trash tier every time. I bought Japanese version of Xenoblade 2, because I couldn't stand this awful translation. To be honest, just changing the names is unbearable for me, not mentioning about whole humour, personalities and even mythology. I don't give a fuck about Greek mythology. I know nothing about it. If I'm buying Japanese game with pure Japanese setting, characters and humour, I want it to stay Japanese. Just translation, not localization. I'm not retarded.
An example : I bought Witcher 3 and I expected Slavic setting with Slavic traditions / culture / beliefs. I've got exact what I expected. No name changes, no culture changes and no character changes.
@@amanechan5405
Weeb
I LOL'd... good job on this 👍
9:40
that expression LOL
Holy shit that ending XD XD XD
Surprise surprise, the localization is actually ridiculously good
Compared to the 1st game? Not really.
Brainlet spotted
I wish both translations kept maximum punchiness
TIM ROGERS!!!!
That karate chop scene takes the cake...
What the heck, Tim! I thought you didn't swear! *YOU* are a kusojiji
he didn't swear in this video
in english, at least
AMATHATOBERFEST
I know of most of the mythological references in this video thanks to the Megami Tensei series. lol
amathatober = october? amath -> amalthus, oct -> augustus
That last bit with nothing illegal I hope, I read it as prostitution.
I get that Christianity references have been moved out. Yet, I feel that the new namings provide a more deeper narrative, that roots back to gods and holy beings beyond abrahamic interpretations. Somehow it feels lesser limited in what to expect from the story. Also nice, that Vandham is not translated as VanDamme.
Repeating dialogue is perfectly understandable, there's no reason to west-wash Japanese speech conventions unless they don't make sense. Other cultures exist.
Many brainelts are afraid of foreign cultures and this game is literally an apogee of this trash mindset
Zeno?
This was fantastic. Your translation analysis is so interesting!
I absolutely loved this. The original Japanese VA is a lot more mature than the English.
You should probably start your own show
I love this nerdy shit!
Spoiler
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How about Mythra's Japanese and English version difference??
The translators are lucky Xenosaga wasn't on Nintendo, they'd have a hell of a time scrubbing the religious references from that thing.
It makes you wonder how Bayonetta 2 made it through with all its religious references.
it's not a Nintendo game.
Psycorruptor parradiso comes from the divine Comedy
Even more so with Xenogears. That has the most religious reference among the Xeno games.
Bayonetta was written and voiced originally in English, just like Biohazard/Resident Evil. That's why it wasn't censored.