Sorry for the enormous comment, I just thought that the effort that you put into this video deserves a well thought out comment. Okay buddy, I liked many of your thoughts and questions that you tried to answer and all, and as a fan of the genre and video game design enthusiast I will try to add to this discussion. First of all the culture around these games is basically what named these genres. The 8 bit/16 bit most famous ones were Double Dragon, Final Fight and Streets of Rage (maybe including Golden Axe and Captain Commando), because of their themes of fighting street gangs with mostly punches and kicks people started to call it "beat em ups" and in the 6th generation we had Devil May Cry, Ninja Gaiden and God of War as the most famous ones, as the nature of the 3D movement and camera required the hitboxes to be larger to hit multiple enemies and to be recognizable from the back camera view of your character. So these really polished games favored Swords and Blades that rewarded players with gory and blood spiling animations of that edgy generation... And for a long time, it became pretty common the idea that DMC/ NINJA GAIDEN/ GOW were basically the natural evolution of those 16-bit games that you fight hordes of enemies on closed screens and arenas until you progressed to the next one. 6:45 Actually the 3D technology allowed these games to have whey more movement options, something that limited the players in the 2D games. Blocking, dashing, evading and using dodge rolls the 3 modern biggest examples Ninja Gaiden, Devil May Cry and Bayonetta all have lots of movement options and largely different combat systems. In Ninja Gaiden the player is constantly dashing, evading and jump off enemies' heads. In Bayo, she even uses her dodges into her prolonged combos, in a system mechanic called dodge offset, positioning and movement are the emphases of that game's mechanics complemented by her panther and bird forms... By the way isn't the idea of the genre "be aggressive", like fighting dudes and all?! Most of these 3d games just have really fast-paced combat that is way more engaging than other examples of combat systems with giant hit stops. 7:00 I think I got what you were saying... But shouldn't this be a designer's choice?! Like the PS1 Beat n Up game "Gekido: urban fighters" you will unlock lots of button combinations for new combos. Ryse Son of Rome, for example, was heavily criticized for being a really short game with no new weapons or news combo options besides using 3 attack buttons. Even the later batman games you have more combat options button combinations and unlockables, personally I think the Arkham Knight's combat is the best one with a well-made skill three of unlockable moves, after all there is a reason why those challenges reward the player with gadget and combat variety. This is like saying that Banjo Kazooie and Mario 64 are different just because most of Mario's movements are enabled from the get-go and banjo unlocks those abilities as the game goes on. I think that if you want to make a game that has more than one hour of total gameplay of beating dudes up, you should totally expand the players' options as the game goes on. 7:15 You could totally have lots of options in a 2D beat n up, just look at alien vs predator arcade game, each character is so different. And these modern retro-styled games all start to create more interesting levels (like castle crashers and scott pillgrim) and stage gimmicks when the games needs to be dragged on for just a few hours more. 7:20 actually as the years have gone by, the games in this genre just got more interesting. From streets of rage 1 to streets of rage 2 when we got a special attack button to SoR3 with more movement options and larger moveset; from final fight 1 that we had only 2 characters in the SNES version to final fight 3 when we got street fighter command moves to 4 playable characters still in the SNES. Sengoku 3 and Alien vs Predator Arcade game both have an extensive move list and robust combat system, you can see that as technology advanced developers could create way more interesting games. If you like to, you should give a look into Fight N Rage and Shattered Realms, both modern indie games that actually create a competent and expansive moveset with tons of combo potential. 7:35 there were a lot of co-op games in the 16-bit generation, but what makes it viable is the horizontal progression and camera angle of Final Fight and Streets of Rage in comparison to GOW and DMC with their behind view and static cameras. Also, most of the 3D platformers of the 6 gen ditched the multiplayer to focus their design into a good single-player campaign. Not that it was impossible, just way more challenging to do so. It was just a convention at the time due to the technical limitations and challenges, that have been overcome with multiple games in the following years. PS.: Ninja Gaiden had online functionalities on the Original Xbox and dmc3 had doppelganger secret multiplayer. Hacks and mods these days adds full multiplayer modes to games like Mario 64 and Devil May Cry 3. 8:10 Hideki Kamiya is a fan of the first Castlevania game and it reflects in his boss fights that the player needs to memorize the boss's attack patterns to win. 3D games in general have more memorable bosses, but the great advantage is that they aren't spamming enemies like the bosses in old beat n up games that usually only had a large attack hitbox and faster movement.
I think the “donuts” you mentioned stem from the effect of running around a circle while the enemies end up chasing you, clumping into a group, leading to more enemies to hit at once or instant doom.
Most likely lol. I think there was a clip of me doing that and the animation looked goofy, but I had about 80 hours of footage across a dozen games to work with for this video so I never found it
Thanks! And yeah. I find the best way to combat that is just to get to the point where you're proud of what you make regardless of how it performs, and just stick with it. If you're having fun and doing well, success will follow...someday...hopefully.
@@BlackbladeYT i know i am 2 weeks late , it was the one at 1:39 sorry.Also it is funny that i came onto the same video twice i thought you had another video uploaded since i saw that little blue dot next to your channel , probally a bug also gg to your almost 200 sub
@@Maptop-mf8db Lol you're fine. The new video will probably be 2 weeks late due to a stupid desync issue. Thanks for checking though, and your congratulations! I appreciate that a ton. As for the 1:39 game, that'd be Castle Crashers, one of the beat em up games I recommended at the end of the video. Probably the newest 2D Beat-Em-Up and made by the creators of Newgrounds (I think), so definitely worth checking out, especially if you're looking for a game to play with a friend.
Just wanted to leave a huge compliment on this video. Your charisma is great, the subject matter is dope, the editing was solid and the way you delved into the topic was awesome. I've been on youtube for forever now lol and your video gives me flashbacks to some of my favorite times on this website, where the individual really shines through.
I have noticed Japanese Hack and Slash games are usually Devil May Cry clones or at least inspired by them, while Western developers make God of War clones.
Note: Another game I highly recommend in terms of Beat Em Ups is Spiderman Web of Shadows. You likely noticed footage of it in the video, and of all the games on here, it was the one I played through most recently. Only reason I didn't talk about it in the video though is because this game is very sickness-inducing with the camera angles, but so long as you play it in 2 hour sessions at most, it's definitely worth checking out.
@@Mechosin Good question! I haven't played Hellblade (as much as I want to) so I can't speak on that, but Sekiro is kind of a strange case. The Soulsborne series before it is very much what I'd consider an action-rpg, relying on chaining base light and heavy attacks with your other spells and abilities to overcome enemies, and Sekiro essentially trades the rpg mechanics for its stealth attributes. As such, I'd classify Sekiro as just a stealth-action game, with a __few__ hack-and-slash features sprinkled in (likely from their previous work with the Tenshu games and Ninja Blade, as not good as the latter was).
@@Mechosin that’s nice to hear! Nioh like Hellblade I need to brush up on more but expect it to be in line with either Sekiro or the Soulsborne games, and Nier Automata I’d say is most definitely a hack-and-slash...one that I still really need to pick up someday.
Just to correct, being single player and being multi player is NOT a difference between hack'n slash and beat'n ups. There are more single player hack'n slashes because it's a style that became more popular in 3D games, especially in the PS360 generation, which rescued many of the old game styles, revamping them for the new generations. The PS360 generation was also responsible for making the games more cinematic and for that the game needs to have better control what the player does (to insert more cutscenes in the middle of the gameplay, whether they are playable or not, as well as positioning of cameras and etc. ), that's why the focus on developing single player games was so big. Well, if you're going to take the logic of the video, Batman Arkham is a hack'n slash just like Lord of the Rings was considered a beat'n up.
sorry to find your video after 4 years its an awesome video, i really want to see you talk about this difference on the games today 2023/2024 because de scene on beat em ups and hack slash games are always growing. keep the good work!
That question is quite hard to answer nowadays. i grew up with a lot of Beat em up game in the 90's here in France. Me and my bro' we loving so much Beat em ups games like "Streets Of Rage" or "Final Fight". - In early 2000 "Dynasty Warriors 2" started to be one of the best beat em up 3D i've ever seen. it was so new and refreshing (especially to kill a number of soldiers) but at that time in one of the french Magazine they call it "Beat em all" (yes French are the worst to changed every words in English...) but after every Dynasty Warriors exist (even spin off) People started call this a "Musou" the problems Musou is the Japanese name of Dynasty Warriors... = "Shin Sangoku Musou" So many people started to call "Senran Kagura", "Fate of Extella" a Musou... - and then i saw in other country call this a Hack And Slash! but in my head every Hack & Slash to me was Diablo, Torchlight and other similar games. - I remember a French employee said to me "no Sengoku Basara is not a Beat Em Ups but Street Fighters it is!!!... I would like to see his face after Capcom Beat Em Up collection came out before! 😂
im subbing for you maan, you got talent in editing and presenting your points, which were very good, speaking as a person who is a first semester game designer in cologne game labs
This was a great video! Currently working on a project for my Video Game Development 101 class and needed some insight on beat 'em ups. Glad I chose you for reference. :))))
That’s a good question! I Haven’t played it but from what I’ve seen, I’d categorize it as an action-platformer, like Mega Man but with a katana instead of the mega buster. Simply stated, I don’t think Hack-and-Slash games could properly exist in the NES era with how next to all games on the system relied on the player understanding very fundamental mechanics, an attribute diametrically opposed to hack-and-slash games’ focus on high complexity and set piece/mechanic variety. Either way, I appreciate you engaging with the topic as so. Makes for my favorite comments!
New sub here, and I agree. My favorite hack and slash games are Metal Gear Rising, and Devil May Cry. Favorite beat 'em ups are EOE: Eve of Extinction, and Remember Me, if that counts. Hack and slash is my third favorite genre, after open world/action-adventures(GTA, Saints Row, etc) or however to put it, and RPGs. I'm even a sucker for melee attacks in shooters.
@@BlackbladeYT Little update, I have a newfound appreciation for the Ninja Gaiden trilogy, and Ryu Hayabusa. I played a little of NG2 over a decade ago, but now I'm a fan forreal. Specifically NG Black, OG NG2, and NG3 Razor's Edge. Not the Sigma versions or OG NG3. I love the ultra aggressive combat, and executions.
That's totally fine! I personally don't consider them to be but I used to call fighting games "Brawlers" lol. These definitions are really just to better describe things to each other and recognize shared design tropes in the games we love.
Beat Em Ups feel like the "Boomer shooter" of hack and slash. Yes there are some similarities between boomer shooters and early 2000s shooters, but there's enough differences to keep them as two separate categories(2000s shooters don't have an established name but I recently heard they can be called Half Likes because early 2000s shooters tried to mimick Half Life 1 formula) 2:16 Wow Hack and Slash even was born during the time of Half Likes being born, I'm telling ya, beat em ups are boomer shooters of fighting games 😅 Although for people who aren't too into the broad fighting genre, we don't mind throwing em under the same umbrella of fighting games but will get defensive if boomer shooters are thrown into same category as Half Like shooter games 😅
What's funny is that these days I've seen games like Half Life and the original Halo be referred to under the guise of a boomer shooter. I think that term is used more to describe the games of a specific period than a particular genre
@@BlackbladeYT I’m subbed and will be checking out more! But yeah, this helped me with my market research, I’m a novice game dev and I’m trying to make my rogue-lite, dungeon crawler unique in its own right. I hope to find that ‘thing’ that makes it stand out while leaning on the great features of the past.
@@troublecub8086 Oh awesome! I'm glad I could help with that. As an aspiring game developer myself, I can relate to that struggle of finding ways to make, in my case until I finish my bachelor's and can start actually making stuff, ideas that stand out. Best advice I can give is to look at any similar games or ones that inspired you in the first place, find what makes them stand out, and consider how you'd go about things differently. Not sure if that'll help much but regardless, I wish you the best in your game dev journey, and look forward to seeing you around on newer content!
My preferred genre: beat em ups, mostly for the primary means of attack. Punching and kicking enemies hong kong style is more cathartic to me. I tend to have a more simplistic definition for both genres compared to this video, since I base it on whether their default attack methods and unarmed combat/blunt weapons or bladed weapons...which seems futile due to there being a lot of overlap, now that I think about it. Beat 'Em Ups recommendations: River City Ransom: Underground, River City Girls, God Hand, Mortal Kombat: Shaolin Monks, Bayonetta series (the default weapons are punches and kicks, so they count), Anarchy Reigns, Super Crush KO, Fight 'N Rage, Battle Circuit, Guardian Heroes, Okinawa Rush, Assault Spy, Transformers: Devastation, Guacamelee series Hack 'N Slash recommendations: Devil May Cry 3 & 5, Ninja Gaiden series, Phantom Breaker: Battleground, Samurai Jack: Battle Through Time, Senran Kagura series Games of both that I want to try out: Urban Reign, Panzer Bandit, Mad Stalker: Full Metal Force, Metal Gear Rising, Spider-Man, X-Men Dimensions, Spikeout, Gekido
So given your criteria, where does the Yakuza series fit in the genres? Primarily attacking with fists but has way too many hack and slash aspects such as: -Other offensive/defensive capabilities are evasions, parries, and guard breaking -Nonlinear 3D gameplay -Player has to earn their new abilities by playing the game more -Faster and aggressive gameplay with combo potential similar to HnS -Additional challenges via climax battles or the in-game minigames
That’s an interesting question. Unfortunately I haven’t had the pleasure of playing the Yakuza games so I can’t confirm, but by your description it sounds like it has at least some elements of hack and slash games regardless of whether it predominantly is one. That’s one correction I’d make with this video if I could: the two genres take up such a similar space in the current gaming market that they tend to be a mix of both as opposed to this more rigid sanctioning I stated here (for instance the newest SpiderMan game I’d consider a hybrid of both genres)
It seems mostly Hack and Slash, only non hack and slash aspect is using fists, but the video already said you can have hack and slash without melee weapons. Really unfortunate name given to hack and slash games 😅
I like both genres 50/50 as far as my favorite games go I can't pick because for beat them ups I like Konami X-Men The Simpsons Streets of Rage Final Fight Double Dragon and so on Hack N Slash God Of War Ninja Gaiden Metal Gear Rising Revengeance Bayonetta and Devil May Cry
AtomBacon only one on that list I’ve played is Astral Chain, with a strong desire to get around to Nier Automata. I’ll have to check those out sometime!
9:12 this is the most nonsense argument of yours lol buddy... Unlocking new moves and increasing your health doesn't make it an RPG, just look at actual Action RPG games where you mostly increase damage values and armor stats, while the best hack n slash games focus on giving you different moves not stronger ones... (Like fire blast is a way powerful move than ember for fire type pokemon) 10:20 Most of the criticism comes from those dumb video game journalists that can't even finish properly a game. Ascension has its own fair share of problems like limiting itself to only the blades with elemental changes were the previous game, GOW3, had one of the best weapon arsenals in the series... 10:30 Not an "updated version", they changed the camera and it comes with its problems too, the games assist the player in its position to even make the combat work, lack of jumps and the overpowered parries aren't an improvement... 11:05 and I would add God Hand to break even more your definition, it was a bad sold game that became a cult classic because how well made the game is. Shinji Mikami created a game in the 6 generation in the middle of the Tuff Protagonists with Big swords trend, about a snarky and funny guy that just punches everyone in a stupidy awesome game. Following the same design aspects of a hard game that makes you learn its mechanics and has a really expansive moveset mostly composed of punches and kicks. The game is wildly accepted in the DMC and Bayo communities and always stated of one of the best of this genre... 11:30 this was a funny and good opinion. People can like their assassins creed and new tomb raider games mixing stealth, shooting, hunting, crafting and exploration to make a long and diverse experience. But its a fact that the most replayable and well-crafted mechanics are found in games that aren't afraid of beeing what they are and aren't compensating with mini-games and grinding the lack of level design and polishment in its mechanics. You used Castle Crashers as a Beat n Up example besides the player's character unlocking new moves, with button combinations, as you progress throughout the game. You used Return of the King game as a Hack n Slash besides it being the most notorious translation to 3D of games like Golden Axe and Shadow over Mystara and... Castle Crashers! Cmon the multiple characters, scenario grabbable items that you can throw and even co-op multiplayer... And of course, let's talk about Bayonetta, that game is easily recognized of being a game similar to DMC and GOW besides her moveset being mostly composed of magical punches and kicks with guns attached to it. Some enemies even drop weapons that you can pick up and use for a short period. I would say that some of the games that you showed like Shadow of Mordor and batman are mostly Action-Adventure games, they have combat but aren't focused on it. Besides the batman games having very competent game mechanics worth of those challenge maps, and they just evolved and expanded as the sequels came out. Shadow of Mordor/War were a mixed bag to me the pseudo rpg mechanics don't mix well like a Darksiders 2 or Dragons Dogma that have a way more interesting combat systems. Concluding most of the recent games don't try to separate the concept but actually are just trying to be engaging and well made, as the end result we have games that are called both things. Aztez is 2.5D and mostly about fighting human enemies with both fists and weapons, Assault Spy is 3D and has clear DMC inspirations but the characters are mostly using suitcases, kicks, and guns. The Senran Kagura first game is a Nintendo 3DS game totally in the style of SoR and FF, but as the sequels were going to stronger consoles and having larger budgets the games turned into third-person behind the back view games. Those booby ninja chicks usually fight in urban settings and have lots of moves from the get-go. Dante in DMC5 has access to so many moves to mess with from the start that none of those old 1/2 hour-long SNES games would dream of. Progression systems and pacing of the game is totally to its games developer's decisions as to its difficulty. Fighting games got more robust and complex as the years have gone by, 3D platformers offer larger worlds and movement options than its 2D counterparts and stealth games got so many more options and ways to go through each level and distract or kill the enemies from PS1 to the actual gen. What I'm trying to say is that I'm still not sure that there is any difference at all between beat n up and hack n slash games besides the evolution throughout the years. BTW really liked you, u got a new subscriber, take care.
Alexandre Fernandes Whoa! I’m gonna reply to both comments here, but thank you so much for putting so much thought and effort in your responses. I really enjoy hearing about this sort of thing, and you seem quite knowledgeable on the topic! I honestly never considered Return of the King to be a 3D beat em up honestly. I can kind of see it but, while I can’t explain it as well as you did, it just feels more in tune with a hack and slash from the feeling of progression and adventurous feel to the levels. I think the fact that it’s very arcade-like in its design is what makes it a more complicated game to narrow down for me. Also as far as the counter-based games like Arkham Asylum or Shadow of Mordor go, I think going even more specific I’d say they are stealth-action games with the action sequences having a particular beat em up feel to them. Perhaps I’m wrong about that but regardless, thanks again for commenting, and for subscribing! I hope future videos of mine (such as my next one which will coincidentally be on the God of War trilogy) can invoke the same thought-provoking responses!
I just got a ps4 and it took me forveer so dony feel bad. And i would reccomend dantes inferno but u already played that so idk tbh lol but to anyone else that and god of war obv arw great options for hack n slack but as for beat em ups i def need to try the batman series and i haven't really gotten into any others tbh
@@coreygunz645 Thanks! And well spoken. Great recommendations all around. I need to finish the rest of the Arkham Series. Only one I've played more than 2 hours of is the first lol
@@BlackbladeYT beat em ups feel kinda weird with how you're always trying to hit enemies before they hit you, while in say DMCV for example, you can dodge in or parry to not lose momentum. In a beat em up, you either hit the enemy first or they hit you, so I end up doing a fighting game footsy with enemies trying to bait an attack or im jumping in from put of range to exploit the AI not having any way to deal with it. The combo potential is also seldom there and never as good as 3d hack and slash games where that's the primary focus in many cases. BU's always felt cheap to me, probably because a lot of them were as they were designed to eat quarters at arcade cabinets. 2D hack and slash games like Blasphemous feel like a great middle ground where it's still got that side to side action, but you aren't getting hit by 1 frame start up attacks from enemies with no telegraph.
@@alastor8091 gotcha, makes more sense. I think the more streamlined and simplified form of beat ‘em ups is still valid as it makes it easier to get friends to play along when they’re that accessible. Then you have the more counter-based variants that exist now which I think have a fine sense of finesse, particularly the Arkham and Middle-Earth games. Hack-and-Slash are my preferred too for the same reasons you mentioned, but both have their individual strengths
Sad to say that just people that still don't know the difference, not that trying to make fun of them or anything not at all. But in truth really there's only recently only just been resurgent of them come back with titles Streets of Rage 4 and there's others I just can't remember the name of them sorry but in my personal opinion the difference between a beat em up and a hack and slash is the focus in weapon combat while a Beat em up focuses on hand-to-hand combat while having optional temporary weapons.
It's moreso that hns is about how to fight your opponent given combat options while beatemups is about clearing the stage efficiently. In hns, enemies may be immune to attacks or tactics requiring alternate approaches, but none are in beatemups.
@@MerlautJones If you mean like a RPGs like pgr or genshin or, trials of mana, I don't see what defines hns games. I see Diablo too much like zelda 3 to not see why Zelda 3 isn't hns.
Hack n' Slash is a useless genre name because people will use it to describe both games like Devil May Cry and games like Diablo. People just use it to mean "Game where you attack a lot of enemies quickly with a weapon".
I disagree. These days I don’t think it’s as worth it trying to label what type of genre a game is, but I think it helps for both developers and players to have terms that can distinguish between games with similar mechanics or design ideas. while I’m proud of how well this video turned out for when I made it, I can and probably will do it better in the future to address things I think I got incorrect
That’s Spider-Man Web of Shadows for the Xbox 360. It’s story isn’t good and the camera will give you motion sickness after prolonged sessions, but the gameplay is super fun and more than makes up for any shortcomings in my opinion
That’s from Star Wars The Force Unleashed 2. Personally I don’t think it’s a good game but I do feel it made for some good clips. First one’s amazing though so I do recommend checking that one out
The only difference between them is beat em ups do not have defense, only attacks, while hack and slash has parries and dodges. The Punisher, an old "beat em up", implemented a dodge defense, making the game more strategic. It's no longer a smash to win game. You have to play more arcade beat em ups to understand the differences. All games in your footage are hack and slash, none of them are beat em ups. You're saying the opposite thing about the genres 😂. Beat em ups are smash 1 button to attack, 1 to jump, and movement is walking speed. They're made slow on purpose and there's no defense, that's the difficulty of the game. It's what came before fighting games. Hack and slash are high speed, have several defense options, there's abilities to unlock and combos. It's a mix of fighting games and beat em ups.
Rpgs are turn based, and stats based. Action rpgs are stats based but realtime turn based: each action is a turn, and you're committed to your turn, cannot cancel it. Fromsoft for example makes medieval pokemon clones: each weapon is a pokemon and you have to use the pokemon that defeats your enemy's pokemon.
On steam, if you ban the tag "rpg" and "fps" so you only see results not having those tags, and search for "action" tag, or "hack and slash" tag, you'll see how little games there are. Almost all games since dark souls are action rpg 😢
A shoot 'em up is a typically 2D side-scroller where you shoot down waves of enemies and pick up various powerups from it as a result. Galaga is probably the most famous example, and Ikaruga's another.
Sorry for the enormous comment, I just thought that the effort that you put into this video deserves a well thought out comment.
Okay buddy, I liked many of your thoughts and questions that you tried to answer and all, and as a fan of the genre and video game design enthusiast I will try to add to this discussion.
First of all the culture around these games is basically what named these genres. The 8 bit/16 bit most famous ones were Double Dragon, Final Fight and Streets of Rage (maybe including Golden Axe and Captain Commando), because of their themes of fighting street gangs with mostly punches and kicks people started to call it "beat em ups" and in the 6th generation we had Devil May Cry, Ninja Gaiden and God of War as the most famous ones, as the nature of the 3D movement and camera required the hitboxes to be larger to hit multiple enemies and to be recognizable from the back camera view of your character. So these really polished games favored Swords and Blades that rewarded players with gory and blood spiling animations of that edgy generation...
And for a long time, it became pretty common the idea that DMC/ NINJA GAIDEN/ GOW were basically the natural evolution of those 16-bit games that you fight hordes of enemies on closed screens and arenas until you progressed to the next one.
6:45 Actually the 3D technology allowed these games to have whey more movement options, something that limited the players in the 2D games. Blocking, dashing, evading and using dodge rolls the 3 modern biggest examples Ninja Gaiden, Devil May Cry and Bayonetta all have lots of movement options and largely different combat systems. In Ninja Gaiden the player is constantly dashing, evading and jump off enemies' heads. In Bayo, she even uses her dodges into her prolonged combos, in a system mechanic called dodge offset, positioning and movement are the emphases of that game's mechanics complemented by her panther and bird forms... By the way isn't the idea of the genre "be aggressive", like fighting dudes and all?! Most of these 3d games just have really fast-paced combat that is way more engaging than other examples of combat systems with giant hit stops.
7:00 I think I got what you were saying... But shouldn't this be a designer's choice?! Like the PS1 Beat n Up game "Gekido: urban fighters" you will unlock lots of button combinations for new combos.
Ryse Son of Rome, for example, was heavily criticized for being a really short game with no new weapons or news combo options besides using 3 attack buttons. Even the later batman games you have more combat options button combinations and unlockables, personally I think the Arkham Knight's combat is the best one with a well-made skill three of unlockable moves, after all there is a reason why those challenges reward the player with gadget and combat variety.
This is like saying that Banjo Kazooie and Mario 64 are different just because most of Mario's movements are enabled from the get-go and banjo unlocks those abilities as the game goes on. I think that if you want to make a game that has more than one hour of total gameplay of beating dudes up, you should totally expand the players' options as the game goes on.
7:15 You could totally have lots of options in a 2D beat n up, just look at alien vs predator arcade game, each character is so different. And these modern retro-styled games all start to create more interesting levels (like castle crashers and scott pillgrim) and stage gimmicks when the games needs to be dragged on for just a few hours more.
7:20 actually as the years have gone by, the games in this genre just got more interesting. From streets of rage 1 to streets of rage 2 when we got a special attack button to SoR3 with more movement options and larger moveset; from final fight 1 that we had only 2 characters in the SNES version to final fight 3 when we got street fighter command moves to 4 playable characters still in the SNES. Sengoku 3 and Alien vs Predator Arcade game both have an extensive move list and robust combat system, you can see that as technology advanced developers could create way more interesting games.
If you like to, you should give a look into Fight N Rage and Shattered Realms, both modern indie games that actually create a competent and expansive moveset with tons of combo potential.
7:35 there were a lot of co-op games in the 16-bit generation, but what makes it viable is the horizontal progression and camera angle of Final Fight and Streets of Rage in comparison to GOW and DMC with their behind view and static cameras. Also, most of the 3D platformers of the 6 gen ditched the multiplayer to focus their design into a good single-player campaign.
Not that it was impossible, just way more challenging to do so. It was just a convention at the time due to the technical limitations and challenges, that have been overcome with multiple games in the following years.
PS.: Ninja Gaiden had online functionalities on the Original Xbox and dmc3 had doppelganger secret multiplayer. Hacks and mods these days adds full multiplayer modes to games like Mario 64 and Devil May Cry 3.
8:10 Hideki Kamiya is a fan of the first Castlevania game and it reflects in his boss fights that the player needs to memorize the boss's attack patterns to win. 3D games in general have more memorable bosses, but the great advantage is that they aren't spamming enemies like the bosses in old beat n up games that usually only had a large attack hitbox and faster movement.
Bible 2
This is not enormous. This is the Bible
This is a really well thought out and presented video. Well done
Thank you! Glad to hear it.
I think the “donuts” you mentioned stem from the effect of running around a circle while the enemies end up chasing you, clumping into a group, leading to more enemies to hit at once or instant doom.
Most likely lol. I think there was a clip of me doing that and the animation looked goofy, but I had about 80 hours of footage across a dozen games to work with for this video so I never found it
you deserve way more views , sad that there are a lot of underated channel out here
Thanks! And yeah. I find the best way to combat that is just to get to the point where you're proud of what you make regardless of how it performs, and just stick with it. If you're having fun and doing well, success will follow...someday...hopefully.
@@BlackbladeYT haha yeah . True that . Gl man , i subscribed :)
oh also do you know the name of the game in 1:36? it looks fun
@@Maptop-mf8db The older-looking game? That's Streets of Rage. It's an old arcade beat em up, and the entire collection is available on Xbox Live
@@BlackbladeYT i know i am 2 weeks late , it was the one at 1:39 sorry.Also it is funny that i came onto the same video twice i thought you had another video uploaded since i saw that little blue dot next to your channel , probally a bug
also gg to your almost 200 sub
@@Maptop-mf8db Lol you're fine. The new video will probably be 2 weeks late due to a stupid desync issue. Thanks for checking though, and your congratulations! I appreciate that a ton. As for the 1:39 game, that'd be Castle Crashers, one of the beat em up games I recommended at the end of the video. Probably the newest 2D Beat-Em-Up and made by the creators of Newgrounds (I think), so definitely worth checking out, especially if you're looking for a game to play with a friend.
Just wanted to leave a huge compliment on this video. Your charisma is great, the subject matter is dope, the editing was solid and the way you delved into the topic was awesome. I've been on youtube for forever now lol and your video gives me flashbacks to some of my favorite times on this website, where the individual really shines through.
Thank you! I'm glad I was able to recapture those days with this channel, and I appreciate the kind words.
Spectacle Fighter coined by Yahtzee has some traction. That's what I thought when I saw Bayonetta anyway.
I have noticed Japanese Hack and Slash games are usually Devil May Cry clones or at least inspired by them, while Western developers make God of War clones.
Note: Another game I highly recommend in terms of Beat Em Ups is Spiderman Web of Shadows. You likely noticed footage of it in the video, and of all the games on here, it was the one I played through most recently. Only reason I didn't talk about it in the video though is because this game is very sickness-inducing with the camera angles, but so long as you play it in 2 hour sessions at most, it's definitely worth checking out.
@@payrimdwein9082 awww! Thanks man! Hope you enjoy your stay. Got more stuff coming soon
Do you consider Sekiro or Hellblade hack and Slash games?
@@Mechosin Good question! I haven't played Hellblade (as much as I want to) so I can't speak on that, but Sekiro is kind of a strange case. The Soulsborne series before it is very much what I'd consider an action-rpg, relying on chaining base light and heavy attacks with your other spells and abilities to overcome enemies, and Sekiro essentially trades the rpg mechanics for its stealth attributes. As such, I'd classify Sekiro as just a stealth-action game, with a __few__ hack-and-slash features sprinkled in (likely from their previous work with the Tenshu games and Ninja Blade, as not good as the latter was).
@@BlackbladeYT And what about Nier:Automata and Nioh? I'd like to know your opinion on those ;P
@@Mechosin that’s nice to hear! Nioh like Hellblade I need to brush up on more but expect it to be in line with either Sekiro or the Soulsborne games, and Nier Automata I’d say is most definitely a hack-and-slash...one that I still really need to pick up someday.
Your video script writing is really good, the editing is great and your insights are really good. Great video,
Just to correct, being single player and being multi player is NOT a difference between hack'n slash and beat'n ups. There are more single player hack'n slashes because it's a style that became more popular in 3D games, especially in the PS360 generation, which rescued many of the old game styles, revamping them for the new generations. The PS360 generation was also responsible for making the games more cinematic and for that the game needs to have better control what the player does (to insert more cutscenes in the middle of the gameplay, whether they are playable or not, as well as positioning of cameras and etc. ), that's why the focus on developing single player games was so big. Well, if you're going to take the logic of the video, Batman Arkham is a hack'n slash just like Lord of the Rings was considered a beat'n up.
sorry to find your video after 4 years its an awesome video, i really want to see you talk about this difference on the games today 2023/2024 because de scene on beat em ups and hack slash games are always growing. keep the good work!
No need to apologize, it’s great to have you here! I have been thinking of doing a redux sometime, we’ll just have to see how things play out
An excellently well made video, subscribed!
Thanks! Glad you liked it!
That question is quite hard to answer nowadays. i grew up with a lot of Beat em up game in the 90's here in France. Me and my bro' we loving so much Beat em ups games like "Streets Of Rage" or "Final Fight".
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In early 2000 "Dynasty Warriors 2" started to be one of the best beat em up 3D i've ever seen. it was so new and refreshing (especially to kill a number of soldiers) but at that time in one of the french Magazine they call it "Beat em all" (yes French are the worst to changed every words in English...) but after every Dynasty Warriors exist (even spin off) People started call this a "Musou" the problems Musou is the Japanese name of Dynasty Warriors... = "Shin Sangoku Musou" So many people started to call "Senran Kagura", "Fate of Extella" a Musou...
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and then i saw in other country call this a Hack And Slash! but in my head every Hack & Slash to me was Diablo, Torchlight and other similar games.
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I remember a French employee said to me "no Sengoku Basara is not a Beat Em Ups but Street Fighters it is!!!... I would like to see his face after Capcom Beat Em Up collection came out before! 😂
Hack N Slash games were a combination of 90s Beat em ups and Action Platformers. Think original Ninja Gaiden, Hagane, Strider, eg.
Thank you, I always tried to understand, now I understand, thank you 👍
Glad to hear it! Someday I hope to update this because there's a few extra details I'd change but I think the majority of this is still accurate haha.
Haha! I’m making fun of you in the comments!
im subbing for you maan, you got talent in editing and presenting your points, which were very good, speaking as a person who is a first semester game designer in cologne game labs
Thanks! Happy to have you along for the ride 😁
This was a great video! Currently working on a project for my Video Game Development 101 class and needed some insight on beat 'em ups. Glad I chose you for reference. :))))
Hey that’s awesome! Glad you liked it, and hope your project turns out well
Yo, great video. Hope you keep doing videos, seems like you have a knack for it
Thanks! Looking to make a return soon 😊
If Hack & Slash started in the early 2000s then what do you call Ninja Gaiden...that hacks & slashes is the main part of the game lol
That’s a good question! I Haven’t played it but from what I’ve seen, I’d categorize it as an action-platformer, like Mega Man but with a katana instead of the mega buster. Simply stated, I don’t think Hack-and-Slash games could properly exist in the NES era with how next to all games on the system relied on the player understanding very fundamental mechanics, an attribute diametrically opposed to hack-and-slash games’ focus on high complexity and set piece/mechanic variety. Either way, I appreciate you engaging with the topic as so. Makes for my favorite comments!
Which one is my favorite? Hard to pick just one lol. Nice video. May the algorithm work in your favor!
Understandable haha, and thank you! It has been picked up quite a bit as of late which is nice
Underrated video
Thanks! New one coming soon! 😁
New sub here, and I agree. My favorite hack and slash games are Metal Gear Rising, and Devil May Cry. Favorite beat 'em ups are EOE: Eve of Extinction, and Remember Me, if that counts.
Hack and slash is my third favorite genre, after open world/action-adventures(GTA, Saints Row, etc) or however to put it, and RPGs. I'm even a sucker for melee attacks in shooters.
Nice haha. All great genres and games you listed. Haven’t played or seen any the inch from EOE though so Imma look into that one
GTA and sr are sandbox games. Action adventure is moreso like Zelda or dsouls.
@@furyberserk I wasn't sure what to call'em, but those along with Zelda are labeled action-adventures. The souls games are action rpgs.
@@BlackbladeYT Little update, I have a newfound appreciation for the Ninja Gaiden trilogy, and Ryu Hayabusa. I played a little of NG2 over a decade ago, but now I'm a fan forreal. Specifically NG Black, OG NG2, and NG3 Razor's Edge. Not the Sigma versions or OG NG3. I love the ultra aggressive combat, and executions.
Very thorough explanation
Thank you very much! Still stand by it for the most part years later 😊
I remember calling diablo 2 titan quest, and other action rpgs hack in slashes.
That's totally fine! I personally don't consider them to be but I used to call fighting games "Brawlers" lol. These definitions are really just to better describe things to each other and recognize shared design tropes in the games we love.
Wow! Found your video.. A real gem! I will poke around your other videos for sure!
Thank you! Glad you enjoyed it
To me a beat em up is 2d and hack and slashes are 3d games with more of a enficense on combos
Beat Em Ups feel like the "Boomer shooter" of hack and slash.
Yes there are some similarities between boomer shooters and early 2000s shooters, but there's enough differences to keep them as two separate categories(2000s shooters don't have an established name but I recently heard they can be called Half Likes because early 2000s shooters tried to mimick Half Life 1 formula)
2:16 Wow Hack and Slash even was born during the time of Half Likes being born, I'm telling ya, beat em ups are boomer shooters of fighting games 😅
Although for people who aren't too into the broad fighting genre, we don't mind throwing em under the same umbrella of fighting games but will get defensive if boomer shooters are thrown into same category as Half Like shooter games 😅
What's funny is that these days I've seen games like Half Life and the original Halo be referred to under the guise of a boomer shooter. I think that term is used more to describe the games of a specific period than a particular genre
3:34 mY eArS
Crush everything, including your hearing
This video was very well done! Thank you & glad I found this 😁
Thank _you_ for giving it a shot, and for the kind words! Always glad to hear when someone likes a video of mine.
@@BlackbladeYT I’m subbed and will be checking out more!
But yeah, this helped me with my market research, I’m a novice game dev and I’m trying to make my rogue-lite, dungeon crawler unique in its own right. I hope to find that ‘thing’ that makes it stand out while leaning on the great features of the past.
@@troublecub8086 Oh awesome! I'm glad I could help with that. As an aspiring game developer myself, I can relate to that struggle of finding ways to make, in my case until I finish my bachelor's and can start actually making stuff, ideas that stand out. Best advice I can give is to look at any similar games or ones that inspired you in the first place, find what makes them stand out, and consider how you'd go about things differently. Not sure if that'll help much but regardless, I wish you the best in your game dev journey, and look forward to seeing you around on newer content!
My preferred genre: beat em ups, mostly for the primary means of attack. Punching and kicking enemies hong kong style is more cathartic to me. I tend to have a more simplistic definition for both genres compared to this video, since I base it on whether their default attack methods and unarmed combat/blunt weapons or bladed weapons...which seems futile due to there being a lot of overlap, now that I think about it.
Beat 'Em Ups recommendations: River City Ransom: Underground, River City Girls, God Hand, Mortal Kombat: Shaolin Monks, Bayonetta series (the default weapons are punches and kicks, so they count), Anarchy Reigns, Super Crush KO, Fight 'N Rage, Battle Circuit, Guardian Heroes, Okinawa Rush, Assault Spy, Transformers: Devastation, Guacamelee series
Hack 'N Slash recommendations: Devil May Cry 3 & 5, Ninja Gaiden series, Phantom Breaker: Battleground, Samurai Jack: Battle Through Time, Senran Kagura series
Games of both that I want to try out: Urban Reign, Panzer Bandit, Mad Stalker: Full Metal Force, Metal Gear Rising, Spider-Man, X-Men Dimensions, Spikeout, Gekido
So given your criteria, where does the Yakuza series fit in the genres? Primarily attacking with fists but has way too many hack and slash aspects such as:
-Other offensive/defensive capabilities are evasions, parries, and guard breaking
-Nonlinear 3D gameplay
-Player has to earn their new abilities by playing the game more
-Faster and aggressive gameplay with combo potential similar to HnS
-Additional challenges via climax battles or the in-game minigames
That’s an interesting question. Unfortunately I haven’t had the pleasure of playing the Yakuza games so I can’t confirm, but by your description it sounds like it has at least some elements of hack and slash games regardless of whether it predominantly is one. That’s one correction I’d make with this video if I could: the two genres take up such a similar space in the current gaming market that they tend to be a mix of both as opposed to this more rigid sanctioning I stated here (for instance the newest SpiderMan game I’d consider a hybrid of both genres)
Beat em up.
It seems mostly Hack and Slash, only non hack and slash aspect is using fists, but the video already said you can have hack and slash without melee weapons.
Really unfortunate name given to hack and slash games 😅
And Then Musou is happening
Lol yeah musou was such a different beast altogether that I chose to just omit it from this video
I consider games like DMC, God of war, Sonic unleashed, Bayonetta etc a subgenre called "God of Cry"
Sonic Unleashed?
@@BlackbladeYTThe Werehog sections are very God of War
beat em ups also for speed runs 1 credit clears and remembering patterns in solo
I like both genres 50/50 as far as my favorite games go I can't pick because for beat them ups I like Konami X-Men The Simpsons Streets of Rage Final Fight Double Dragon and so on
Hack N Slash God Of War Ninja Gaiden Metal Gear Rising Revengeance Bayonetta and Devil May Cry
I can understand that. Both are great genres, and you’ve got some great picks for favorites there
@@BlackbladeYT both are my favorite genre
Hack'n'Slash:
Senran Kagura
Nier:Automata
Astral Chain
Beat Em Up:
River City Girls
Code of Princess
AeternoBlade
AtomBacon only one on that list I’ve played is Astral Chain, with a strong desire to get around to Nier Automata. I’ll have to check those out sometime!
@@BlackbladeYT River City Girls is probabaly the best for Co OP put of these
Devil May Cry is The best
Where would you put Yakuza?
Bro. Ninja blade was my sht
It’s got a lot of cool stuff to it!
Totally Underated
I rly liked Ninja Blade. I think Microsoft should take it and give another go since From Soft won't.
@@MerlautJones if nioh is a souls like them ninja blade is the ninja gaiden like of that eraa
9:12 this is the most nonsense argument of yours lol buddy... Unlocking new moves and increasing your health doesn't make it an RPG, just look at actual Action RPG games where you mostly increase damage values and armor stats, while the best hack n slash games focus on giving you different moves not stronger ones...
(Like fire blast is a way powerful move than ember for fire type pokemon)
10:20 Most of the criticism comes from those dumb video game journalists that can't even finish properly a game. Ascension has its own fair share of problems like limiting itself to only the blades with elemental changes were the previous game, GOW3, had one of the best weapon arsenals in the series...
10:30 Not an "updated version", they changed the camera and it comes with its problems too, the games assist the player in its position to even make the combat work, lack of jumps and the overpowered parries aren't an improvement...
11:05 and I would add God Hand to break even more your definition, it was a bad sold game that became a cult classic because how well made the game is. Shinji Mikami created a game in the 6 generation in the middle of the Tuff Protagonists with Big swords trend, about a snarky and funny guy that just punches everyone in a stupidy awesome game. Following the same design aspects of a hard game that makes you learn its mechanics and has a really expansive moveset mostly composed of punches and kicks. The game is wildly accepted in the DMC and Bayo communities and always stated of one of the best of this genre...
11:30 this was a funny and good opinion. People can like their assassins creed and new tomb raider games mixing stealth, shooting, hunting, crafting and exploration to make a long and diverse experience. But its a fact that the most replayable and well-crafted mechanics are found in games that aren't afraid of beeing what they are and aren't compensating with mini-games and grinding the lack of level design and polishment in its mechanics.
You used Castle Crashers as a Beat n Up example besides the player's character unlocking new moves, with button combinations, as you progress throughout the game.
You used Return of the King game as a Hack n Slash besides it being the most notorious translation to 3D of games like Golden Axe and Shadow over Mystara and... Castle Crashers! Cmon the multiple characters, scenario grabbable items that you can throw and even co-op multiplayer...
And of course, let's talk about Bayonetta, that game is easily recognized of being a game similar to DMC and GOW besides her moveset being mostly composed of magical punches and kicks with guns attached to it. Some enemies even drop weapons that you can pick up and use for a short period.
I would say that some of the games that you showed like Shadow of Mordor and batman are mostly Action-Adventure games, they have combat but aren't focused on it. Besides the batman games having very competent game mechanics worth of those challenge maps, and they just evolved and expanded as the sequels came out. Shadow of Mordor/War were a mixed bag to me the pseudo rpg mechanics don't mix well like a Darksiders 2 or Dragons Dogma that have a way more interesting combat systems.
Concluding most of the recent games don't try to separate the concept but actually are just trying to be engaging and well made, as the end result we have games that are called both things.
Aztez is 2.5D and mostly about fighting human enemies with both fists and weapons, Assault Spy is 3D and has clear DMC inspirations but the characters are mostly using suitcases, kicks, and guns. The Senran Kagura first game is a Nintendo 3DS game totally in the style of SoR and FF, but as the sequels were going to stronger consoles and having larger budgets the games turned into third-person behind the back view games. Those booby ninja chicks usually fight in urban settings and have lots of moves from the get-go.
Dante in DMC5 has access to so many moves to mess with from the start that none of those old 1/2 hour-long SNES games would dream of. Progression systems and pacing of the game is totally to its games developer's decisions as to its difficulty.
Fighting games got more robust and complex as the years have gone by, 3D platformers offer larger worlds and movement options than its 2D counterparts and stealth games got so many more options and ways to go through each level and distract or kill the enemies from PS1 to the actual gen.
What I'm trying to say is that I'm still not sure that there is any difference at all between beat n up and hack n slash games besides the evolution throughout the years.
BTW really liked you, u got a new subscriber, take care.
Alexandre Fernandes Whoa! I’m gonna reply to both comments here, but thank you so much for putting so much thought and effort in your responses. I really enjoy hearing about this sort of thing, and you seem quite knowledgeable on the topic! I honestly never considered Return of the King to be a 3D beat em up honestly. I can kind of see it but, while I can’t explain it as well as you did, it just feels more in tune with a hack and slash from the feeling of progression and adventurous feel to the levels. I think the fact that it’s very arcade-like in its design is what makes it a more complicated game to narrow down for me. Also as far as the counter-based games like Arkham Asylum or Shadow of Mordor go, I think going even more specific I’d say they are stealth-action games with the action sequences having a particular beat em up feel to them. Perhaps I’m wrong about that but regardless, thanks again for commenting, and for subscribing! I hope future videos of mine (such as my next one which will coincidentally be on the God of War trilogy) can invoke the same thought-provoking responses!
What's the game at 7:05 to 7:10? I don't recognize that one.
That game is called X-Men Destiny. It came out around 2011 and was the last game to be made by Silicon Knights. Pretty fun game, highly recommend it.
NVM... it's X-Men Destiny. Don't remember this game at all.
You got a sub from me :)
I just got a ps4 and it took me forveer so dony feel bad. And i would reccomend dantes inferno but u already played that so idk tbh lol but to anyone else that and god of war obv arw great options for hack n slack but as for beat em ups i def need to try the batman series and i haven't really gotten into any others tbh
Great video btw
@@coreygunz645 Thanks! And well spoken. Great recommendations all around. I need to finish the rest of the Arkham Series. Only one I've played more than 2 hours of is the first lol
Hack and Slash is good, beat em ups are scuffed.
Why do you say that
@@BlackbladeYT beat em ups feel kinda weird with how you're always trying to hit enemies before they hit you, while in say DMCV for example, you can dodge in or parry to not lose momentum. In a beat em up, you either hit the enemy first or they hit you, so I end up doing a fighting game footsy with enemies trying to bait an attack or im jumping in from put of range to exploit the AI not having any way to deal with it. The combo potential is also seldom there and never as good as 3d hack and slash games where that's the primary focus in many cases. BU's always felt cheap to me, probably because a lot of them were as they were designed to eat quarters at arcade cabinets. 2D hack and slash games like Blasphemous feel like a great middle ground where it's still got that side to side action, but you aren't getting hit by 1 frame start up attacks from enemies with no telegraph.
@@alastor8091 gotcha, makes more sense. I think the more streamlined and simplified form of beat ‘em ups is still valid as it makes it easier to get friends to play along when they’re that accessible. Then you have the more counter-based variants that exist now which I think have a fine sense of finesse, particularly the Arkham and Middle-Earth games. Hack-and-Slash are my preferred too for the same reasons you mentioned, but both have their individual strengths
👍👍
whats the game at 3:49
Ryse Son of Rome. It was a launch title for the Xbox One and it’s super underrated. Give it a go if you can find it
Sad to say that just people that still don't know the difference, not that trying to make fun of them or anything not at all. But in truth really there's only recently only just been resurgent of them come back with titles Streets of Rage 4 and there's others I just can't remember the name of them sorry but in my personal opinion the difference between a beat em up and a hack and slash is the focus in weapon combat while a Beat em up focuses on hand-to-hand combat while having optional temporary weapons.
It's moreso that hns is about how to fight your opponent given combat options while beatemups is about clearing the stage efficiently.
In hns, enemies may be immune to attacks or tactics requiring alternate approaches, but none are in beatemups.
Character action games.
What?
@@BlackbladeYT That's become a common term for hack & slash games, but I personally hate it. Lol
@@MerlautJones
Not really. Character action is far more niche. Hack n slash representing Diablo makes hns games a bad term overall.
@@furyberserk Diablo has hack and slash combat, but is an RPG.
@@MerlautJones
If you mean like a RPGs like pgr or genshin or, trials of mana, I don't see what defines hns games. I see Diablo too much like zelda 3 to not see why Zelda 3 isn't hns.
What about old school Golden Axe?
Beat em up.
Hack n' Slash is a useless genre name because people will use it to describe both games like Devil May Cry and games like Diablo. People just use it to mean "Game where you attack a lot of enemies quickly with a weapon".
I disagree. These days I don’t think it’s as worth it trying to label what type of genre a game is, but I think it helps for both developers and players to have terms that can distinguish between games with similar mechanics or design ideas. while I’m proud of how well this video turned out for when I made it, I can and probably will do it better in the future to address things I think I got incorrect
6:14 whats that game
That’s Spider-Man Web of Shadows for the Xbox 360. It’s story isn’t good and the camera will give you motion sickness after prolonged sessions, but the gameplay is super fun and more than makes up for any shortcomings in my opinion
3:08 wtf is that
That’s from Star Wars The Force Unleashed 2. Personally I don’t think it’s a good game but I do feel it made for some good clips. First one’s amazing though so I do recommend checking that one out
The only difference between them is beat em ups do not have defense, only attacks, while hack and slash has parries and dodges.
The Punisher, an old "beat em up", implemented a dodge defense, making the game more strategic. It's no longer a smash to win game.
You have to play more arcade beat em ups to understand the differences. All games in your footage are hack and slash, none of them are beat em ups. You're saying the opposite thing about the genres 😂.
Beat em ups are smash 1 button to attack, 1 to jump, and movement is walking speed. They're made slow on purpose and there's no defense, that's the difficulty of the game. It's what came before fighting games.
Hack and slash are high speed, have several defense options, there's abilities to unlock and combos. It's a mix of fighting games and beat em ups.
Rpgs are turn based, and stats based.
Action rpgs are stats based but realtime turn based: each action is a turn, and you're committed to your turn, cannot cancel it.
Fromsoft for example makes medieval pokemon clones: each weapon is a pokemon and you have to use the pokemon that defeats your enemy's pokemon.
On steam, if you ban the tag "rpg" and "fps" so you only see results not having those tags, and search for "action" tag, or "hack and slash" tag, you'll see how little games there are.
Almost all games since dark souls are action rpg 😢
What is a shootemup
A shoot 'em up is a typically 2D side-scroller where you shoot down waves of enemies and pick up various powerups from it as a result. Galaga is probably the most famous example, and Ikaruga's another.
Is Just the Same