Excellent content and I really appreciate your meticulous attention to detail. One key thing that you bring to your content that 99% of others don't: communicating all the detailed thought that you put into your process. Great job. That said, I'd be very curious for you to take a look at a Tikka action and see how much work it needs to be cleaned up vs. a Howa or Remington. I've worked with all three myself and would be interested to see how it would compare for you price/performance/effort of setup/clean up.
In the process of getting a 300prc built on a Remington 700 action. Just curious with your reloads if your able to easily reach the rifling with the 212eldx and 225eldm and still fit and function in the factory mag length of 3.70" ??
just shows you how badly new rifles are made by all manufactures no matter the brand, by a new weapon system and then get it blueprinted all moving parts and including the barrel bedded to the stock, etc? only that way you will have a straight shooter?👍👍👌👌✌✌🦘🦘
Gavin, You make us/me proud with you genuine excitement and true heart felt joy of doing this 1st class rifle. I am a 63 year old "Maj. 3rd Marine Recon Scout Sniper" (RET) using 300 Win Mag hand built at Quantico. Your joy, enthusiasm, and understanding is why I chose you to give the "Secret" of a 300 Win Mag. There are dozens of expert( hahaha) videos that talk crap about the Remington 300 Win Mag. Earlier you figured it out that "harmonics", and inferior ammunition's make for bad 100 yd groups. Cudos 2U. I am a MSME and I was tasked in 1978 by the the DOD to make the 300 shoot straight at 1500 yds. So do yourself a favor and just make the right bullet first and be amazed at the results. 4" groups at 1000 yds and we shoot milk jugs at a mile for fun. So screw all the cheap powders and use IMR 7828SC alone or my favorite IMR 4831 and IMR 7828 mixed 2 parts 4831 and 1 part 7828. Hornady just invented a magical 30 cal bullet hybrid. Hybrid 30 cal 230 grain with a BC of .823. Stays flat, zero wind deflection, and 2/3 normal elevation on the scope. A normal 300 takes 4 seconds flight time and this magic combo takes 2 1/2 seconds. The military's 300 bullet has had a BC or .480.to.495 so .823 is magic. BUT BUT the 300 Win Mag rifles needs the loading of such a heavy bullet to remove all the harmonics. Gavin, this is a true gift to you so don't waste it. My engineering awards include; Space Shuttle, F-18, Thrust Vectoring, Smart bombs, Drag race Cars, Union Pacific Rail Road I am not some flake. Just load them up and watch the magic Charlie
Sounds like experience talking i never heard of 2 parts 4831 and 1 part 7828 does it make a difference if its short cut 4831? I shoit a remingto pss in 309 win mag pillar bedded jewel trigger tubbs firing pin and spring action trued it shoits good but always room to improve needs new barrel
You very quickly made a believer out of me to get a maticulous gunsmith to do my action blueprinting. In my case, I purchased a Rem. 700 in .300 SAUM and have yet to see a round for it! I ordered 10 boxes from HSM, but that will take nearly a year. Otherwise I want to convert it to .300WSM which I can get ammo for it. So, blueprinting will have to wait till I sort that out. Love you show- I learn so much! Jeff
I would just like to say that your presentation are top notch. I learn volumes from your videos and your information has helped me improve as a reloader and shooter. Thanks for sharing your wealth of knowledge with us!👍💪🏼
You are a True Craftsman...I love to watch someone work that is top notch ..be it a Rope Horse Trainer or a Gunsmith and Machinist. I enjoyed this video
What I did and worked really well was running a left hand cutter up-side down, the lathe running clockwise, withdrawing the tool, worked well for me, I did just end up making a thread relief inside the action but didn’t seem to effect anything accuracy wise.
Great videos! My grandfather was the same way, i was able to get one of his toolboxes and seems like whenever i need something it is in there. Wish i could have learned more from him, before he passed.
Yea, I wouldn't call it "Budget" but that's not meant to take away from Gavin's excellent machining and video on this. I think Gavin's work was truly custom.
Agreed. By the time you buy the tools that he uses to true the action, and the time spent doing so, not counting having the lathe etc.., go and no go gauges, you could just as easily buy a precision action from a reputable manufacturer.
I really like your videos. I have a Remington 700 7mm Winchester mag that I am disappointed in. I brought it new but got sick did not get to shoot it for 2 years. The very first time I put a shell in it the ejector was broken would not eject the shell. I have fixed that for now. My plans are to re-barrel and put a new type of extractor in a new bolt and blue print the receiver. Put a new stock on. About the same thing maybe a little more or and little less than you done to this rifle. I don’t have any way to go to his class but have done a lot of studying on doing it and been machining for little more than 35 years. So when I get time to start it and after I get finish with it I will share how it went.
Wow Really nice! Impressive the technique and learning you got with Gordie! Nice Job Gavin! I need to save a whole lot of nickels up to have you build my 300 PRC I can see. Really nice how your explained it all to us , Thanks
Really enjoyed the bolt truing I have a few custom rifles. One has a trued action. It shoots really well. The other shoot good. But I wish they were all trued. Thanks for the videos. There all great. Everyone needs a shop like yours if they’re into rifles
Rumblestrip.NET this is what I want to see too. I’m starting to believe there is more voodoo in “blueprinting” a factory action than truth. I understand that metrics show deviation on some of these faces, but does it actually make any real difference in the performance of the action as it translates to accurate shot placement?
racer4ever33 the only thing that will really make a difference is the match barrel. Unless the dimensions were extremely screwed up, which were not, you’ll see real improvement just on a trued action.
@@racer4ever33 The rear bolt lug to front of the receiver lockup is critical. Also truing the front of the receiver gets your barrel pointed in the same line as the receiver. I purchased a Rem 7 receiver from Brownell's that only one bolt lug contacted the receiver. That Will hurt your accuracy.
Sir, Dave Mason has a kit for guys that want to accurize their recievers but without a lathe. Have you used his kit and then tested it by comparing the lathe techniques? I purchased the trying kit, bolt face truing kit and lapped the lugs with lapping compound and had great results with remage barrels.
Just out of curiosity, have you put any thought in to possibly making a form 1 can? Considering you have a nice lathe and mill set up it may be a cool project to take on... would be nice to see your approach on it.
Good video. My goal is to take all of Gordy's classes together. Very interested in his AR 15 accurizing class also which I believe is included in the course. His classes are very reasonably priced in my opinion.👍👍
When you cut the hole in the jig for the bolt handle, do you think that would throw off the weight of the center of the jig while spinning on its own? Should you cut 4 holes all the way around so the centrifugal forces don’t pull it to one side?
YIKES hours on internal threads... I gave up on that prospect some time ago...I use the PTG receiver threading mandrel. Runs on the same bushings as the truing mandrel you have and does a good and effective job of fixing Remington's sloppy threads
@@Ultimatereloader I figured that to be the case. As you alluded to there is no easy way to do it. Hence the use of the action threading mandrel to clean up and align the threads. Also I understand Wyatt's makes a different mag box for the 300 PRC as feeding issues have occurred using the RUM box.
@@andy347495 Have you ever used a threading mandrel of the type I'm describing? It follows the center line of the bolt because it rides on bushings press fit in the same manner of the action truing mandrel used in his video.. and the die corrects the misalignment to the bolt body... it doesn't just follow the threads. You can see after use where it has cut on one side or the other to correct concentricity. Furthermore what matters more than the threads in the receiver is that the face of the receiver is square, the shoulder on the barrel tenon is square, and the threads single point cut on the barrel tenon are square relative to the bore. Thread contact within the receiver need only be 70% to achieve full strength and a proper lock up between the receiver and the barrel.
@@andy347495 I 100% disagree... Lets break it down. You state you have "checked them on your lathe" What was the concentric run out when using a mandrel? I have seen Remington be as much as 0.010" of total run out before truing. Chasing the threads with a single point cutter is not going to clean that mess up without creating a thread that is shallow on one side and overly deep on the other and larger in diameter than the original thread. In fact to try and correct this would induce more slop in the barrel tenon / receiver threads. Using the mandrel that is parallel with the bolt body bore and removing the high spots/ rough/ or uneven pitch surfaces does what is necessary to ensure that NO undue stress other than the force applied to the thread faces during barrel lockup is applied. Your second comment "Your receiver face is going to dictate how far the barrel moves/alignes by the amount the threads allow the barrel to move." This is why when the threads are cut on the barrel tenon THEY ARE ALIGNED TO THE BORE OF THE BARREL and the shoulders of both the receiver and the barrel tenon or cut square. when the barrel is installed and torqued, the force on the threads cares not if there is .002" run out in the threads of the receiver. This is because when a force on the faces of the threads is like 2 triangles one upside down in respect to the other being forced against each other. As this happens equally on ALL sides of barrel and receiver the two align based on the parallel surfaces of the faces of the receiver and barrel shoulder. There is no transverse stress produced in this process as barrel threads are often cut a few thousands under the OD if the internal threads in the receiver to prevent bottoming the peaks of the barrel threads inside the receiver and inducing stress.
@@andy347495 USing a mandrel in this method DOES true the ID and thread surfaces to the bolt body bore. It may not remove all run out but that is not the point. I have built a dozen or more rifles using the mandrel and trued ans squared cut barrel threads. Not a one of them has shown signs of issues due to stress or misalignment with the axis of the bore or bolt body. Furthermore on a precison machined receiver touching the threads is a mute point as the are already axially trued. I venture that the machine hours spent attempting to single point cut the internal threads and trying to get a stock Remington 700 receiver to the level of a precision action MORE than offsets the cost of purchasing say a Stiller or Defiance action. This is the whole reason PTG and others have created the mandrels and piloted receiver facing tools...its not cost effective for a gunsmith to do it in this manner and it doesn't produce an appreciable improvement in precision.
Love your videos Gavin. In your findings. How accurate are actions from manufacturers like terminus or bat.....do they need tuning up?.....which is a better quality action Bat or terminus?
I gravitate to this channel mainly because of the content but no annoying commercials makes it just that much better why so few commercials ,,, I would watch it anyway even if it had annoying commercials
300WSM would be nice to see, you might have done video about it did not look for it. 7SAUM as well as I think it might be close / better ?? compared to the 7PRCWheeler
One thing that I didn't quite understand. When you cut the threads on the barrel, how do you measure for proper fit on the OD of the barrel thread/ID of receiver thread? Or I may have misunderstood but I thought that you never touched the front and back of each receiver thread at the same time. Wouldn't that make the receiver threads shallower than standard? I hope this made sense. Thanks for a really great vid series!
I have my fathers 700 bdl 3006 I have always wanted to true that reciever and get a new 3006 bbl set in it. But no one in my area seema to do the blueprinting on actions. Sucks but good to see this vid out thanks
Love the builds and have my degree in machining, unfortunately cant due to health but would love to have a shop like yours and the $ to do those builds etc... Look amazing.
When dialing in your action build a fixture that your only dialing on the front ring. You’d be surprised at how much deflation you get with that fixture. I’d be glad to send you a picture of mine.
I’m about to start my own build and was hoping for a little insight. What is your process for setting up and cutting the internal receiver threads now that you have done a few? Thanks for any help!
Isn't loading the bolt face from the front better than lapping via the bolt handle from the rear? This has always been the way it has been explained to me. This is also how I have always done it. Using the bolt handle to load the lugs imparts rearward and alot of axial torque over a longer run vs loading on the bolt face.
Gavin, I still do not know if you need a magnum action for 300 PRC or a long action, a 300 Win Mag case is 2.62" a 300 PRC is 2.58", 300 Win Mag OAL 3.34", 300 PRC 3.56+", 300 Wby Mag OAL 3.60" so my guess is it needs a mag action, How about chambering a Mag Action in 300 Win Mag to seat heavy 225 Gns bullets further out with a extended throat for it? Manufacturers do not specify the action lengh in the same model, Bergara, Howa, Etc in 300 PRC
Gavin, is there any way to measure if those “blueprinting” cuts actually make any difference? Would you be willing to re-headspace the stock barrel and reinstall it and see how much better it shoots. I’ve only chambered a couple rifles, but I’m starting to think there may be more voodoo to blueprinting than truth or actual realized accuracy in groups.
The barrel makes a lot more difference than the blueprint job. The blueprint just reduces the errors in the action which helps to reduce those impact shifts when the weather changes or the fliers in an otherwise good group. It’s a total approach. Reducing variables in the manufacturing process, in the reloading process etc.
very nice, your procedure is very much like my own on my Remington actions, most of the same steps. out of curiosity though why did you leave the factory extractor instead of say bushing and installing a sako?
Any particular reason why you decided to change the caliber to a cartridge you had already built a rifle in? The RUM looked very accurate out of the box, with crap...err...factory ammo. You had 16 lbs of powder, all you needed was some monster bullets from 210 to 250 grains, do some hand loading, and that thing would've been a long range tack driver that the PRC would not have touched. (Opinion)😎🇺🇸👍🇺🇸
Question, since the rear of the bolt in usage is tilted up slightly should that not have been taken into account when you faced off the bolt face? As of now, the top of the bolt face is closer to the cartridge than the bottom when the trigger is installed. Also, concentricity is never termed as plus or minus, it’s always TIR total indicator reading.
...when truing the threads...run the lathe in reverse...the tool on the back side... ...you can see the tool alignment better...and the tool runs from left to right and out of the hole instead of in...
Great overview. Did you consider buying a 700 bolt from PT&G rather than using the OEM? Might have saved some time and gotten some options not available with the Remington product.
Since you said the bolt is angled slightly by the influence of the trigger and the looseness in the bore wouldn’t the bolt face now be out of square once you’ve lapped the lugs in the crooked position? Maybe the amount is negligible and after all much worse rifles have shot better groups but that does not seem like the proper way to go about it if you are really measuring to tenths. Also if you went through the trouble to recut the threads the only thing that would do is influence radially where the barrel (angular alignment is set by the squareness of the receiver face and parallelism of the recoil lug) sits so shouldn’t you now measure the concentricity of the bolt face in relation? Otherwise that seems like something for nothing. Lastly if you would indulge my curiosity could you reset up the action with your indicating rod in the action and remeasure. I am just curious to see if there is any repeatability in your measurements if so it makes me think it is an accurate way of doing things. Thank you for the great video and I hope to not come off as someone trying to troll you.
Just put a good barrel on that action and it will shoot. I have serious doubts that truing an action contributes that much to accuracy. It’s all in the barrel my friend.
The price of a surgeon/defiance are pretty high but you know what you are getting. How does a full blueprint action compare to these when you can buy a rem pretty cheaply and grab a trigger/barrel and come in a fair bit cheaper ,Then the big dollar actions ?
Gavin i have a 300 rum , its a rem 700 sendero and ive thought about rebarreling it to 300 prc one thing i was wondering will both casings fit that bolt face? or is there some work required to get that to work?
I don't agree with lapping the bolt to action with the loads from the firing pin spring in place. That is not the loads at play when detonation occurs.
You should use a thread gauge to be able to read runout of threads. I could take a die grinder and gouge the treads and totally screw up the minor diameter but the pitch diameter would not be effected. you are only assuming the thread pitch diameter is concentric to the minor diameter.
Actually I did this the way Gordy Gritters does- with a 0.0001" indicator on the middle of the critical side of the thread, with the halfnuts engaged and carriage run in towards the receiver. VERY accurate way to determine runout- it's very important to read the correct side of the thread as noted in the video. (the side under compression when barrel tightened to action, not the clearance side).
@@Ultimatereloader That only assumes your lead screw has less than .001" pitch error per foot. Lead screws on engine lathes have .003" per foot of lead error or about .0002" per inch Hench the suggestion for the thread gauge it eliminates the machine error.
Maybe this has been asked, but why cut threads in this matter rather than use a tap of the appropriate size. Are there any benefits to using your method vs a tap, I just hate setting that set up, having used it on a share of dies and shot sleeves.
What is the price trade off between custom build ($3000-$5000) and modifying an off the shelf gun($800-$1200)? Also what action is best to work with regarding modifying the action, barrel, lug, round or square action? I bought a new Remington 700-270WSM ($850 and shooting 3" @ 100 yards) and ended up taking it to a gunsmith and had another $800 put into it to get it shooting well (best 3 shots @ .625 at 100 yards)?
This is why I love savage rifles. You can pick up a blueprinted action in a chassis for $1500. The new 110 elite series is awesome. My old stealth in 6.5 shoots a 1/4 moa group at 100 and 3/4 at 1000 with hand loads. I'm sure a full custom will shoot better but I can't.
I've shot just about everything. Current modern Tikka T3x CTRs are shooting sub MOA for 5 rounds at 100 yards with factory ammo no problem. I have three (in a row) that shoot multiple factory brands with a wide range of bullet weights at 1/2 MOA at 100 yards for 5 rounds. That's insane for a factory action/barrel/trigger. Pick up a Tikka. Instead of having to completely redo the action, throw the barrel away and toss the trigger for aftermarket replacements you can keep all that, put it in a chassis/decent stock (KRG Bravo is inexpensive and very good) and easily have a 1/2 MOA gun or better with handloads. Most likely it'll be 1/2 MOA with factory ammo. The triggers are fantastic. Stick a $12 spring in them and you can get them to sub 2lb no problem. Mine sit right at 1.5lb with a glass rod break. Oh, and when they heat up during rapid fire strings at PRS matches.... they are perfectly consistent group wise and point of impact unlike a lot of other brands out there.
You should check out Straight Shot Gunsmithing's True Bore Alignment system. He built me a rifle and seeing how quickly he dials the action and barrel in so there is no runout is amazing.
I am soon going to start a build off a 700 action for a 20 Tactical and I have been wondering, what speeds you used for truing the different surfaces and the threads?
The bolt being true does matter. When you bush the firing pin hole (you do that, don’t you?) and when you turn the outside of the bolt nose so that is actually round, concentric and bd so on. There are other considerations too. If you have uneven threads in the receiver you’ve cut corners. There’s a reason a tried receiver has overdose threads. You thread the barrel to match and have equal support of the barrel.
hold on hold on.... if the trigger pivots the bolt, so u need to lap the lugs intsed of cuting them. what will this trigger pivoting do to the boltface, which is true to the bolt body? According to this logic, the bolt face should be trued when the bolt is locked in the reciver to get the boltface normal to the reciver threads and hence the chamber....
I've been pining for a 300PRC! This will be an interesting comparison between the full custom build. Curious of rifle's intended purpose? (e.g. the 6.5 PRC was the lightweight mountain rifle, full custom 300PRC for LR/ELR- will the budget 300PRC have a similarly designated role?)
This is fascinating and educational, thanks! Sadly, I’ve been on the hunt for a (cheap) manual lathe for a few years (I don’t need one for daily use, can’t justify a 1,500.00 paper weight in a garage for once a year use). In this project, what does “budget” mean? 700.00? 500.00? 1,000.00?
Interested in an Ultimate Reloader custom rifle? Sign up on the list here: ultimatereloader.com/rifles/
It scares me that I find this facinating. There is no end to this road we are on.
Would like to see an off the shelf rifle tuned up using all of these techniques with factory parts. Compare your 1000 yard groups before and after.
Excellent content and I really appreciate your meticulous attention to detail. One key thing that you bring to your content that 99% of others don't: communicating all the detailed thought that you put into your process. Great job. That said, I'd be very curious for you to take a look at a Tikka action and see how much work it needs to be cleaned up vs. a Howa or Remington. I've worked with all three myself and would be interested to see how it would compare for you price/performance/effort of setup/clean up.
Me too!
In the process of getting a 300prc built on a Remington 700 action. Just curious with your reloads if your able to easily reach the rifling with the 212eldx and 225eldm and still fit and function in the factory mag length of 3.70" ??
@@broch84shorthair49 factory Remington throats are terrible. You'll be way off the lands if you're loading to mag length. Like 0.130" off.
just shows you how badly new rifles are made by all manufactures no matter the brand, by a new weapon system and then get it blueprinted all moving parts and including the barrel bedded to the stock, etc? only that way you will have a straight shooter?👍👍👌👌✌✌🦘🦘
Gavin, You make us/me proud with you genuine excitement and true heart felt joy of doing this 1st class rifle. I am a 63 year old "Maj. 3rd Marine Recon Scout Sniper" (RET) using 300 Win Mag hand built at Quantico. Your joy, enthusiasm, and understanding is why I chose you to give the "Secret" of a 300 Win Mag. There are dozens of expert( hahaha) videos that talk crap about the Remington 300 Win Mag. Earlier you figured it out that "harmonics", and inferior ammunition's make for bad 100 yd groups. Cudos 2U. I am a MSME and I was tasked in 1978 by the the DOD to make the 300 shoot straight at 1500 yds. So do yourself a favor and just make the right bullet first and be amazed at the results. 4" groups at 1000 yds and we shoot milk jugs at a mile for fun. So screw all the cheap powders and use IMR 7828SC alone or my favorite IMR 4831 and IMR 7828 mixed 2 parts 4831 and 1 part 7828. Hornady just invented a magical 30 cal bullet hybrid. Hybrid 30 cal 230 grain with a BC of .823. Stays flat, zero wind deflection, and 2/3 normal elevation on the scope. A normal 300 takes 4 seconds flight time and this magic combo takes 2 1/2 seconds. The military's 300 bullet has had a BC or .480.to.495 so .823 is magic. BUT BUT the 300 Win Mag rifles needs the loading of such a heavy bullet to remove all the harmonics. Gavin, this is a true gift to you so don't waste it. My engineering awards include; Space Shuttle, F-18, Thrust Vectoring, Smart bombs, Drag race Cars, Union Pacific Rail Road
I am not some flake. Just load them up and watch the magic Charlie
Sounds like experience talking i never heard of 2 parts 4831 and 1 part 7828 does it make a difference if its short cut 4831? I shoit a remingto pss in 309 win mag pillar bedded jewel trigger tubbs firing pin and spring action trued it shoits good but always room to improve needs new barrel
You very quickly made a believer out of me to get a maticulous gunsmith to do my action blueprinting. In my case, I purchased a Rem. 700 in .300 SAUM and have yet to see a round for it! I ordered 10 boxes from HSM, but that will take nearly a year. Otherwise I want to convert it to .300WSM which I can get ammo for it. So, blueprinting will have to wait till I sort that out. Love you show- I learn so much! Jeff
I would just like to say that your presentation are top notch. I learn volumes from your videos and your information has helped me improve as a reloader and shooter. Thanks for sharing your wealth of knowledge with us!👍💪🏼
Man I cant wait for Part 2! Also cant wait for my 300PRC 🎯
Did you get your 300 PRC up and running?
You are a True Craftsman...I love to watch someone work that is top notch ..be it a Rope Horse Trainer or a Gunsmith and Machinist. I enjoyed this video
What I did and worked really well was running a left hand cutter up-side down, the lathe running clockwise, withdrawing the tool, worked well for me, I did just end up making a thread relief inside the action but didn’t seem to effect anything accuracy wise.
The Joe Pieczynski method! Follow Joe Pie what a machinist!
Awesome job Gavin. First blue printed action done ✅ and done well with meticulous attention to detail as we’ve come to expect from you 👍👍👍.
It would have been fun to put it back together in the factory configuration after blue printing and see if it actually made a difference.
with a bolt face that whacked, Im sure it did.
Great videos! My grandfather was the same way, i was able to get one of his toolboxes and seems like whenever i need something it is in there. Wish i could have learned more from him, before he passed.
Seeing your lathe, I'm reminded I need to clean my chip tray and wipe off the grease.
Right on! Anxious to see the finished rifle and how it shoots
Me too :)
Yea, I wouldn't call it "Budget" but that's not meant to take away from Gavin's excellent machining and video on this. I think Gavin's work was truly custom.
Agreed. By the time you buy the tools that he uses to true the action, and the time spent doing so, not counting having the lathe etc.., go and no go gauges, you could just as easily buy a precision action from a reputable manufacturer.
I really like your videos. I have a Remington 700 7mm Winchester mag that I am disappointed in. I brought it new but got sick did not get to shoot it for 2 years. The very first time I put a shell in it the ejector was broken would not eject the shell. I have fixed that for now. My plans are to re-barrel and put a new type of extractor in a new bolt and blue print the receiver. Put a new stock on. About the same thing maybe a little more or and little less than you done to this rifle. I don’t have any way to go to his class but have done a lot of studying on doing it and been machining for little more than 35 years. So when I get time to start it and after I get finish with it I will share how it went.
You put in some work sir! Awesome explanation of all processes performed!
Just ordered a magnum bolt for my 3006. Gonna spin a 300prc barrel for getting into ulr competitions while keeping the wuick chamge to 06 for hunting
Wow Really nice! Impressive the technique and learning you got with Gordie! Nice Job Gavin! I need to save a whole lot of nickels up to have you build my 300 PRC I can see. Really nice how your explained it all to us , Thanks
I was researching a 300 prc build when I got the notification. Keep up the good work I'm excited to see the final product.
Such great information and love learning and watching things you do for better rifle performance.
Really enjoyed the bolt truing I have a few custom rifles. One has a trued action. It shoots really well. The other shoot good. But I wish they were all trued. Thanks for the videos. There all great. Everyone needs a shop like yours if they’re into rifles
Put the stock barrel back on and see how much the action job only made with accuracy.
Cant really, he opened up the threads and changed the headspace on all the parts......but it would be cool to know
Rumblestrip.NET this is what I want to see too. I’m starting to believe there is more voodoo in “blueprinting” a factory action than truth. I understand that metrics show deviation on some of these faces, but does it actually make any real difference in the performance of the action as it translates to accurate shot placement?
I can personally say it does make a difference but we're talking benchrest accuracy every millimeter counts
racer4ever33 the only thing that will really make a difference is the match barrel. Unless the dimensions were extremely screwed up, which were not, you’ll see real improvement just on a trued action.
@@racer4ever33 The rear bolt lug to front of the receiver lockup is critical. Also truing the front of the receiver gets your barrel pointed in the same line as the receiver. I purchased a Rem 7 receiver from Brownell's that only one bolt lug contacted the receiver. That Will hurt your accuracy.
Sir, Dave Mason has a kit for guys that want to accurize their recievers but without a lathe. Have you used his kit and then tested it by comparing the lathe techniques? I purchased the trying kit, bolt face truing kit and lapped the lugs with lapping compound and had great results with remage barrels.
Great video as usual, Gavin! Keep it up!
Great video!! I have to find a lathe. Gordy's process is straight forward.
Man I love your videos! They are so casual and well prepared, thanks!
Do you have a video on the TRUE effects of Truing an action? It would be cool to see a before /after of the blue printing performance.
Just out of curiosity, have you put any thought in to possibly making a form 1 can? Considering you have a nice lathe and mill set up it may be a cool project to take on... would be nice to see your approach on it.
Good video. My goal is to take all of Gordy's classes together. Very interested in his AR 15 accurizing class also which I believe is included in the course. His classes are very reasonably priced in my opinion.👍👍
When you cut the hole in the jig for the bolt handle, do you think that would throw off the weight of the center of the jig while spinning on its own? Should you cut 4 holes all the way around so the centrifugal forces don’t pull it to one side?
YIKES hours on internal threads... I gave up on that prospect some time ago...I use the PTG receiver threading mandrel. Runs on the same bushings as the truing mandrel you have and does a good and effective job of fixing Remington's sloppy threads
Most of that time was spent experimenting with different ways to get a close look at the tool in relation to the interior of the threads :)
@@Ultimatereloader I figured that to be the case. As you alluded to there is no easy way to do it. Hence the use of the action threading mandrel to clean up and align the threads. Also I understand Wyatt's makes a different mag box for the 300 PRC as feeding issues have occurred using the RUM box.
@@andy347495 Have you ever used a threading mandrel of the type I'm describing? It follows the center line of the bolt because it rides on bushings press fit in the same manner of the action truing mandrel used in his video.. and the die corrects the misalignment to the bolt body... it doesn't just follow the threads. You can see after use where it has cut on one side or the other to correct concentricity. Furthermore what matters more than the threads in the receiver is that the face of the receiver is square, the shoulder on the barrel tenon is square, and the threads single point cut on the barrel tenon are square relative to the bore. Thread contact within the receiver need only be 70% to achieve full strength and a proper lock up between the receiver and the barrel.
@@andy347495 I 100% disagree... Lets break it down. You state you have "checked them on your lathe" What was the concentric run out when using a mandrel? I have seen Remington be as much as 0.010" of total run out before truing. Chasing the threads with a single point cutter is not going to clean that mess up without creating a thread that is shallow on one side and overly deep on the other and larger in diameter than the original thread. In fact to try and correct this would induce more slop in the barrel tenon / receiver threads. Using the mandrel that is parallel with the bolt body bore and removing the high spots/ rough/ or uneven pitch surfaces does what is necessary to ensure that NO undue stress other than the force applied to the thread faces during barrel lockup is applied. Your second comment "Your receiver face is going to dictate how far the barrel moves/alignes by the amount the threads allow the barrel to move." This is why when the threads are cut on the barrel tenon THEY ARE ALIGNED TO THE BORE OF THE BARREL and the shoulders of both the receiver and the barrel tenon or cut square. when the barrel is installed and torqued, the force on the threads cares not if there is .002" run out in the threads of the receiver. This is because when a force on the faces of the threads is like 2 triangles one upside down in respect to the other being forced against each other. As this happens equally on ALL sides of barrel and receiver the two align based on the parallel surfaces of the faces of the receiver and barrel shoulder. There is no transverse stress produced in this process as barrel threads are often cut a few thousands under the OD if the internal threads in the receiver to prevent bottoming the peaks of the barrel threads inside the receiver and inducing stress.
@@andy347495 USing a mandrel in this method DOES true the ID and thread surfaces to the bolt body bore. It may not remove all run out but that is not the point. I have built a dozen or more rifles using the mandrel and trued ans squared cut barrel threads. Not a one of them has shown signs of issues due to stress or misalignment with the axis of the bore or bolt body. Furthermore on a precison machined receiver touching the threads is a mute point as the are already axially trued. I venture that the machine hours spent attempting to single point cut the internal threads and trying to get a stock Remington 700 receiver to the level of a precision action MORE than offsets the cost of purchasing say a Stiller or Defiance action. This is the whole reason PTG and others have created the mandrels and piloted receiver facing tools...its not cost effective for a gunsmith to do it in this manner and it doesn't produce an appreciable improvement in precision.
Wow that’s a lot of knowledge my friend bravo and thank you for sharing this awesome video
Love your videos Gavin. In your findings.
How accurate are actions from manufacturers like terminus or bat.....do they need tuning up?.....which is a better quality action Bat or terminus?
I love these vids. Bring on part 2
You need to bush the bolt also for a tight fit. The face of the bolt is out when you close it. No need to face it if you dont bush it.
I gravitate to this channel mainly because of the content but no annoying commercials makes it just that much better why so few commercials ,,, I would watch it anyway even if it had annoying commercials
300WSM would be nice to see, you might have done video about it did not look for it. 7SAUM as well as I think it might be close / better ?? compared to the 7PRCWheeler
You and Gordy need to watch Joe pyzinski's utube video on thread chasing.
Very easy and works perfectly.
And thread in reverse as Joe(and I) do
One thing that I didn't quite understand. When you cut the threads on the barrel, how do you measure for proper fit on the OD of the barrel thread/ID of receiver thread? Or I may have misunderstood but I thought that you never touched the front and back of each receiver thread at the same time. Wouldn't that make the receiver threads shallower than standard? I hope this made sense. Thanks for a really great vid series!
I have my fathers 700 bdl 3006 I have always wanted to true that reciever and get a new 3006 bbl set in it. But no one in my area seema to do the blueprinting on actions. Sucks but good to see this vid out thanks
Love the builds and have my degree in machining, unfortunately cant due to health but would love to have a shop like yours and the $ to do those builds etc... Look amazing.
When dialing in your action build a fixture that your only dialing on the front ring. You’d be surprised at how much deflation you get with that fixture. I’d be glad to send you a picture of mine.
@@andy347495 yep would be glad to
I’m about to start my own build and was hoping for a little insight. What is your process for setting up and cutting the internal receiver threads now that you have done a few? Thanks for any help!
Hey Gavin I saw what bushing set you bought from Gre-Tan. What indicator rod did you purchase?
Good stuff man.
Brilliant. Extremely well presented and informative. Thank you
Isn't loading the bolt face from the front better than lapping via the bolt handle from the rear? This has always been the way it has been explained to me. This is also how I have always done it. Using the bolt handle to load the lugs imparts rearward and alot of axial torque over a longer run vs loading on the bolt face.
Very informative content. Just searching for a lathe brother!
Are you doing any gunsmithing for the public? I'm thinking along the lines of blueprinting a Remington 700 la.
Question, out of all the info you showed us, and I might add was great info. But why did you not check the timing of the bolt ?
Also bushing the firing pin hole?
Gavin, I still do not know if you need a magnum action for 300 PRC or a long action, a 300 Win Mag case is 2.62" a 300 PRC is 2.58", 300 Win Mag OAL 3.34", 300 PRC 3.56+", 300 Wby Mag OAL 3.60" so my guess is it needs a mag action, How about chambering a Mag Action in 300 Win Mag to seat heavy 225 Gns bullets further out with a extended throat for it? Manufacturers do not specify the action lengh in the same model, Bergara, Howa, Etc in 300 PRC
When are u going to build the ar15 chambered in 224 valkyrie
He has lots of videos of a rebarreled AR in 224 V that shoots sub MOA that he did
Gavin, is there any way to measure if those “blueprinting” cuts actually make any difference? Would you be willing to re-headspace the stock barrel and reinstall it and see how much better it shoots. I’ve only chambered a couple rifles, but I’m starting to think there may be more voodoo to blueprinting than truth or actual realized accuracy in groups.
Only blueprint when you get a new barrel. Not worth putting the original barrel back on
The barrel makes a lot more difference than the blueprint job. The blueprint just reduces the errors in the action which helps to reduce those impact shifts when the weather changes or the fliers in an otherwise good group. It’s a total approach. Reducing variables in the manufacturing process, in the reloading process etc.
Thank you 😊
Great job mate very intrigued lots of good info in this one. Would love to see you do an ackley improved rechamber next
280 AI, please!
very nice, your procedure is very much like my own on my Remington actions, most of the same steps. out of curiosity though why did you leave the factory extractor instead of say bushing and installing a sako?
Any particular reason why you decided to change the caliber to a cartridge you had already built a rifle in? The RUM looked very accurate out of the box, with crap...err...factory ammo. You had 16 lbs of powder, all you needed was some monster bullets from 210 to 250 grains, do some hand loading, and that thing would've been a long range tack driver that the PRC would not have touched. (Opinion)😎🇺🇸👍🇺🇸
GREAT TEACHER. THANK GOODNESS
Question, since the rear of the bolt in usage is tilted up slightly should that not have been taken into account when you faced off the bolt face? As of now, the top of the bolt face is closer to the cartridge than the bottom when the trigger is installed. Also, concentricity is never termed as plus or minus, it’s always TIR total indicator reading.
Love the vids, keep them coming, your a great inspiration
Thanks Paul!
gavintoobe PM me I have an idea I’d like to run by you
Sure, you can shoot me an email from here: ruclips.net/user/gavintoobeabout
...when truing the threads...run the lathe in reverse...the tool on the back side...
...you can see the tool alignment better...and the tool runs from left to right and out of the hole instead of in...
Should have installed a m16 extractor. Would have been worth it and a side Bolt stop/release. It is actually easy with the mill.
Not really. He has the mill there. Would only actually take minutes to install. Parts are very cheap.
I am a little slow...lmao.
Looking forward to the next part..
I need a recommendation for a rem 700 patterned 300 PRC barreled action.. hoping to find something near $1000.
amazing job!
I need to do the class
Great overview. Did you consider buying a 700 bolt from PT&G rather than using the OEM? Might have saved some time and gotten some options not available with the Remington product.
I will never do it but enjoyed the video.
So the bolt, the bolt face and bolt lugs are the main two areas truing helped accuracy?
Since you said the bolt is angled slightly by the influence of the trigger and the looseness in the bore wouldn’t the bolt face now be out of square once you’ve lapped the lugs in the crooked position? Maybe the amount is negligible and after all much worse rifles have shot better groups but that does not seem like the proper way to go about it if you are really measuring to tenths. Also if you went through the trouble to recut the threads the only thing that would do is influence radially where the barrel (angular alignment is set by the squareness of the receiver face and parallelism of the recoil lug) sits so shouldn’t you now measure the concentricity of the bolt face in relation? Otherwise that seems like something for nothing. Lastly if you would indulge my curiosity could you reset up the action with your indicating rod in the action and remeasure. I am just curious to see if there is any repeatability in your measurements if so it makes me think it is an accurate way of doing things. Thank you for the great video and I hope to not come off as someone trying to troll you.
Just put a good barrel on that action and it will shoot. I have serious doubts that truing an action contributes that much to accuracy. It’s all in the barrel my friend.
Curious as to why you didn’t sleeve the bolt
The price of a surgeon/defiance are pretty high but you know what you are getting. How does a full blueprint action compare to these when you can buy a rem pretty cheaply and grab a trigger/barrel and come in a fair bit cheaper ,Then the big dollar actions ?
Gavin i have a 300 rum , its a rem 700 sendero and ive thought about rebarreling it to 300 prc one thing i was wondering will both casings fit that bolt face? or is there some work required to get that to work?
I don't agree with lapping the bolt to action with the loads from the firing pin spring in place. That is not the loads at play when detonation occurs.
You should use a thread gauge to be able to read runout of threads. I could take a die grinder and gouge the treads and totally screw up the minor diameter but the pitch diameter would not be effected. you are only assuming the thread pitch diameter is concentric to the minor diameter.
Actually I did this the way Gordy Gritters does- with a 0.0001" indicator on the middle of the critical side of the thread, with the halfnuts engaged and carriage run in towards the receiver. VERY accurate way to determine runout- it's very important to read the correct side of the thread as noted in the video. (the side under compression when barrel tightened to action, not the clearance side).
@@Ultimatereloader That only assumes your lead screw has less than .001" pitch error per foot. Lead screws on engine lathes have .003" per foot of lead error or about .0002" per inch Hench the suggestion for the thread gauge it eliminates the machine error.
Superb content!
Thanks JP! And thanks for watching.
Maybe this has been asked, but why cut threads in this matter rather than use a tap of the appropriate size. Are there any benefits to using your method vs a tap, I just hate setting that set up, having used it on a share of dies and shot sleeves.
What is the price trade off between custom build ($3000-$5000) and modifying an off the shelf gun($800-$1200)? Also what action is best to work with regarding modifying the action, barrel, lug, round or square action? I bought a new Remington 700-270WSM ($850 and shooting 3" @ 100 yards) and ended up taking it to a gunsmith and had another $800 put into it to get it shooting well (best 3 shots @ .625 at 100 yards)?
This is why I love savage rifles. You can pick up a blueprinted action in a chassis for $1500. The new 110 elite series is awesome. My old stealth in 6.5 shoots a 1/4 moa group at 100 and 3/4 at 1000 with hand loads. I'm sure a full custom will shoot better but I can't.
I've shot just about everything. Current modern Tikka T3x CTRs are shooting sub MOA for 5 rounds at 100 yards with factory ammo no problem. I have three (in a row) that shoot multiple factory brands with a wide range of bullet weights at 1/2 MOA at 100 yards for 5 rounds. That's insane for a factory action/barrel/trigger.
Pick up a Tikka. Instead of having to completely redo the action, throw the barrel away and toss the trigger for aftermarket replacements you can keep all that, put it in a chassis/decent stock (KRG Bravo is inexpensive and very good) and easily have a 1/2 MOA gun or better with handloads. Most likely it'll be 1/2 MOA with factory ammo.
The triggers are fantastic. Stick a $12 spring in them and you can get them to sub 2lb no problem. Mine sit right at 1.5lb with a glass rod break. Oh, and when they heat up during rapid fire strings at PRS matches.... they are perfectly consistent group wise and point of impact unlike a lot of other brands out there.
well that takes away the 'voodoo' from truing an action. great video!
Thanks, just takes time!
It would be cool to see a howa blueprint. I can’t find any video showing one.
I’m thinking about taking my 7mm Remington magnum down and building a 300 PRC
It would be an dream come true if you could rebuild my first Remington 700 with caliber interchangeability 308/6.5 Crdmr
So when you chased the threads to true them how much did you take off in order to clean them up but not be oversized?
About 0.002"
Finally!!
You should check out Straight Shot Gunsmithing's True Bore Alignment system. He built me a rifle and seeing how quickly he dials the action and barrel in so there is no runout is amazing.
I've already been talking to them!
Nathan is the real deal!
Couldn't you possibly make your own blueprinting jib on the lathe? Seem to me it's the same concept as your outboard spider you built?
I am soon going to start a build off a 700 action for a 20 Tactical and I have been wondering, what speeds you used for truing the different surfaces and the threads?
The bolt being true does matter. When you bush the firing pin hole (you do that, don’t you?) and when you turn the outside of the bolt nose so that is actually round, concentric and bd so on. There are other considerations too.
If you have uneven threads in the receiver you’ve cut corners. There’s a reason a tried receiver has overdose threads. You thread the barrel to match and have equal support of the barrel.
Nice project.!
hold on hold on.... if the trigger pivots the bolt, so u need to lap the lugs intsed of cuting them. what will this trigger pivoting do to the boltface, which is true to the bolt body? According to this logic, the bolt face should be trued when the bolt is locked in the reciver to get the boltface normal to the reciver threads and hence the chamber....
btw realy like the vid :)
I've been pining for a 300PRC! This will be an interesting comparison between the full custom build. Curious of rifle's intended purpose? (e.g. the 6.5 PRC was the lightweight mountain rifle, full custom 300PRC for LR/ELR- will the budget 300PRC have a similarly designated role?)
Awesome stuff
This is fascinating and educational, thanks! Sadly, I’ve been on the hunt for a (cheap) manual lathe for a few years (I don’t need one for daily use, can’t justify a 1,500.00 paper weight in a garage for once a year use).
In this project, what does “budget” mean? 700.00? 500.00? 1,000.00?
If you buy a lathe, you will find you will be using it more than you think! They are a handy machine.
Do you have plans for the old barrel?
So I’m looking at getting an R700 action for my 300prc I’m having built. Do i need the Long Ultra Magnum Action or just a Long Magnum Action?
Standard long-action is fine!
One more thing: any reason you don’t choose cut rifles barrels?
What type of South bend did your grandpa have? I have a 1947 113d
1947 South Bend 9A! (good year I guess :) )