I've watched every single game in this channel and I honestly didn't think much of ZeLoT up until this series. He has now become one of my favourite ZvT players to watch, It's a shame he didn't qualify for ASL.
Seems like he’s learning. In some earlier game he was sending packs of mutas into turrets and gols hoping to push and break the terran yet failed. Now he made a twist on his main strategy, perfectly harassing with mutas first and then quickly morphing them into guardians before the opponent get any counter. He’s aggressive but smart.
This game was amazing to watch. So cool that we got to see the same strat twice from Zealot. Switching back into Guardians was unexpected and awesome. Zealot vs Scan for the finals!!!
A zerg that actually ustilizes one of zerg's greatest assets, which is switching back and forth between unit-compositions. Who needs upgrades and specialization, when you can hardcounter your opponent's composition and then hardcounter their counter again?
I know its always easy to say it from a observer point of view, but I feel that if Ample improves his decision making just a little bit, he will become a beast, too many bad trades were taken for no reason. Anyway, great games. Keep it up Artosis, these casts are amazing!
Awesome series. Great to see more effective use of guardians than what some pros do with just morphing them and leaving them sitting there attacking until they die.
I always wondered why guardian hydra wasn't used more. It transitions really well into defiler lurker if you can't get the kill. I also didn't understand why pro terrans weren't using valks vs zerg, since, in my experience, they are amazing at dealing with mutas, and mutas are such a problem at the pro level. But recently that has happened, so many guardian hydra will start to be used more as well.
@@Dziaji Valkyries have been used very frequently against pro zergs since at least 2007, when players like Fantasy made it look good. The reason you never saw more than 1 or occasionally 2 is that they didn't really function in Brood War, due to the bullet limit maxing out so quickly. If you got a bunch of valks, odds are they would just sit there not shooting and accomplishing nothing. In Remastered, the bullet limit was lifted, so you can get as many valks as you want.
That's also why you didn't see guardian/hydra, by the way. Zerg didn't really need to push back valks, and wraiths weren't a super common response. Instead, you would usually see a few mutas or scourge hanging around the guardians to push away vessels or possibly the singular valk or wraith. Then zerglings could come in on the ground after the guards had opened a path.
@@EebstertheGreat No valks were most certainly not used frequently until a couple years ago. Once in a while, yes, but now you see them in like 30% of TvZ or something. The bullet sprite limit issue never really came into play in pro 1v1 TvZ because you would need like 8 valks all firing at once for some of them to not shoot. It mattered in team games and ffas where there is moer units and action on hte map, and sometimes if you were trying to fight carriers with valks in 1v1 because of all the interceptor shots and dragoon shots, and golliath missiles. In 1v1 TvZ you could always have like 4 valks and not have them miss shots.
@@Dziaji Fantasy made a valk essentially every single game vs zerg. Other SK players used it too, including sometimes Flash. Maybe you just don't remember, or you were watching different players. The bullet limit was a massive issue. Artosis has repeatedly explained this in casts on this channel, as well as in his ASL casts. Valks were never made in numbers for that reason. And if you still have a disk, you can try installing an unupdated version and trying it for yourself. Put a bunch of SCVs mining two mineral lines, have some attacking going on somewhere off screen, and have a bunch of marines, mutas, and 4 valks attacking and see what happens. 6 valkyries could practically fill the entire bullet limit ON THEIR OWN, even with no SCVs or other units attacking or mining. Also, valkyries are totally useless against protoss even today. It has nothing to do with their ability to attack and everything to do with their ability to deal damage. They can barely get through the 4 carrier armor, and they deal half damage to interceptors, which also heal every time they return to the carrier. It gets worse. Interceptors are immune to air splash damage (from valks or corsairs), for no apparent reason. Just totally useless.
ZeLot is taking perfect advantage of Zerg’s ability to bank larva and completely switch his army comp on a dime, amazing counter to Ample’s defensive switches.
There's a reason SC1 is considered by many the greatest RTS of all time. Some people swear by AoE2 which is also awesome and there's still a C&C Red Alert fanbase but I think seeing how many different metas there have been for SC1 shows it's the deepest.
Mass queens vs Protoss now Mass Guardians vs Terrans, so much love from under rated BW units from the past and I LOVE IT! Gives me nostalgic feels since I used to use guardians to flank my opponent while my main army of lings/hydras occupy the front ;D P.S. Medics be dumb as always and not healing marines but healing the SCVs instead LOL GL HF This series was awesome TY RT!
Also side note, valks are so OP. Not hating either, i main T and off race Z.. so awesome seeing mutas gettin crushed and 1 valk gets away with 1 hp and all the mutas are dead or are nearly dead too
Artosis commentating: The BEAUTY of such a rare situation, my god Artosis playing: It's actually INSANE how overpowered Zerg is! I hate this shit game!
Im no pro at all, i just been playing for the love of the game forever. So with that said does anyone else feel like battle mutas are the way to go? They can stay and fight more and they do plenty damage every volley when you have a mass of them. Whats the consensus?
That zerg build seems a bit broken. Like, what's the best-case hard counter to that? Was it really just being out-micro'd? Better turret placement? More turrets? Just seemed like the mutas traded so well with the +1 carapace to the point that there was no recovery from the early harass. Add to that nearly indestructible guardians (do wraiths do more damage to armored than valks maybe?). That just looked really frustrating to Terran. He had a solid build order that was fast and greedy, and it just didn't have a chance. I'm not complaining, just genuinely curious :)
better micro for sure, the build is not that good against a decent microing terran. Its because you cant micro the guardian since they are very slow, but good valks micro will destroy the guardians. Besides, the marine micro at the beginning is bad, since he went 4 racks but lost too much marine and could not put any pressure on the zerg at all.
A lot of mis-micro by Ample to be sure. There was no reason to push out onto the map with his Marine/Medic against that Muta-ball when he did, and he let waaaaaaaaay too many marines die to bad micro in the skirmishes in his base. Also a lot of really bad Medic AI/Pathing caused issues at his ramp, when pushing out, etc.
I like how Artosis is cheering on Ample, but my dude, he was done. At no stage of the game was he not just barely surviving. Zelot simply played better in all 3 games.
Great games, but Ample really needs to work on his micro. His cost effectiveness is so poor. There is no way you should be losing that many marines vs hydras, there is no way that you should be attacking a group of like 8 lurkers with marines after they burrow, and there is no way you should lose so many valks to hydras while attacking guardians. You shouldn't just march into the darkness with unsieged tanks when you know you are facing guardians and lurkers. Think of this, he made like10 valks that game, but never had more than 3 doing anything at a time, and there were no scourges to contend with. He should have had like 8 valks left towards the end of the game, and with the mm and tanks, that would have easily been enough to defend his natural and get back on his feet. Instead, he had 0 valks and then just marched into dark, open ground after that amazing hold.
Sound sucks. I can barely hear game sounds or music over your booming voice. I'm going to keep complaining about this until you change it. God I hope the ASL videos aren't like this. On a positive note, cool game!
balance between unit sounds and voice is very good. Music could definitely be higher, I don't hear it much, but does one really need the music in a starcraft cast?
balance between unit sounds and voice is very good. Music could definitely be higher, I don't hear it much, but does one really need the music in a starcraft cast?
@@SeeAndDreamify I think the unit sounds could definitely be higher, but yes the music is especially quiet. I think the music is the kind of thing that adds something to the experience that you don't realize until it's missing.
@@FlymanMS It's not my device. There's other brood war matches I can listen to on youtube that are better. I strongly believe it's "fine" for other people because they just don't know the difference. They don't even know what they're missing, OR they wouldn't care either way.
![Can 1000 Hydralisks take 100 Tanks? [Daily StarCraft Brawl]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/OPLU0HIuGw4/mqdefault.jpg)
Yo I'd love to see more Ample/Zelot, these dudes produce such good games.
Ample would be like: “Noo please I can’t take it anymore from him”
Zealot makes zero look so busted źvt
Zelot's micro is just at another level :)
I've watched every single game in this channel and I honestly didn't think much of ZeLoT up until this series. He has now become one of my favourite ZvT players to watch, It's a shame he didn't qualify for ASL.
Seems like he’s learning. In some earlier game he was sending packs of mutas into turrets and gols hoping to push and break the terran yet failed. Now he made a twist on his main strategy, perfectly harassing with mutas first and then quickly morphing them into guardians before the opponent get any counter. He’s aggressive but smart.
He times a perfect ling rush first, you mean. I concur.
Completely agree!
I’ll never forget zelot trying to ling rush best and best held it with zealot line and probes behind them zapping away I think on ringing bloom.
This man uses Guardians. That's all I need to see, I want him to take it all
This game was amazing to watch. So cool that we got to see the same strat twice from Zealot. Switching back into Guardians was unexpected and awesome. Zealot vs Scan for the finals!!!
No maybe about it, definitely the series of the tourney. Every game was great. Thanks arty!
A zerg that actually ustilizes one of zerg's greatest assets, which is switching back and forth between unit-compositions. Who needs upgrades and specialization, when you can hardcounter your opponent's composition and then hardcounter their counter again?
What crazy games, I wish there were more games similar to these three. Aggressive players are interesting to watch.
Crazy back and forth! One almost had the edge to push back but a nice timed push ended it.
incredible series ! this and the last game , totally a must watch ... i was running out of nails to bite watching them
I know its always easy to say it from a observer point of view, but I feel that if Ample improves his decision making just a little bit, he will become a beast, too many bad trades were taken for no reason. Anyway, great games. Keep it up Artosis, these casts are amazing!
Amazing series! I have chills
The back and forth is crazy!
that was a fantastic series, alot of fun to watch
Awesome series. Great to see more effective use of guardians than what some pros do with just morphing them and leaving them sitting there attacking until they die.
2:45 it’s basically a gamble, and Zelot seem to like making gambles in his games
Also he’s showing the most impressive use of Guardians I’ve ever seen
I always wondered why guardian hydra wasn't used more. It transitions really well into defiler lurker if you can't get the kill.
I also didn't understand why pro terrans weren't using valks vs zerg, since, in my experience, they are amazing at dealing with mutas, and mutas are such a problem at the pro level. But recently that has happened, so many guardian hydra will start to be used more as well.
@@Dziaji Valkyries have been used very frequently against pro zergs since at least 2007, when players like Fantasy made it look good. The reason you never saw more than 1 or occasionally 2 is that they didn't really function in Brood War, due to the bullet limit maxing out so quickly. If you got a bunch of valks, odds are they would just sit there not shooting and accomplishing nothing. In Remastered, the bullet limit was lifted, so you can get as many valks as you want.
That's also why you didn't see guardian/hydra, by the way. Zerg didn't really need to push back valks, and wraiths weren't a super common response. Instead, you would usually see a few mutas or scourge hanging around the guardians to push away vessels or possibly the singular valk or wraith. Then zerglings could come in on the ground after the guards had opened a path.
@@EebstertheGreat No valks were most certainly not used frequently until a couple years ago. Once in a while, yes, but now you see them in like 30% of TvZ or something.
The bullet sprite limit issue never really came into play in pro 1v1 TvZ because you would need like 8 valks all firing at once for some of them to not shoot. It mattered in team games and ffas where there is moer units and action on hte map, and sometimes if you were trying to fight carriers with valks in 1v1 because of all the interceptor shots and dragoon shots, and golliath missiles. In 1v1 TvZ you could always have like 4 valks and not have them miss shots.
@@Dziaji Fantasy made a valk essentially every single game vs zerg. Other SK players used it too, including sometimes Flash. Maybe you just don't remember, or you were watching different players.
The bullet limit was a massive issue. Artosis has repeatedly explained this in casts on this channel, as well as in his ASL casts. Valks were never made in numbers for that reason. And if you still have a disk, you can try installing an unupdated version and trying it for yourself. Put a bunch of SCVs mining two mineral lines, have some attacking going on somewhere off screen, and have a bunch of marines, mutas, and 4 valks attacking and see what happens. 6 valkyries could practically fill the entire bullet limit ON THEIR OWN, even with no SCVs or other units attacking or mining.
Also, valkyries are totally useless against protoss even today. It has nothing to do with their ability to attack and everything to do with their ability to deal damage. They can barely get through the 4 carrier armor, and they deal half damage to interceptors, which also heal every time they return to the carrier. It gets worse. Interceptors are immune to air splash damage (from valks or corsairs), for no apparent reason. Just totally useless.
Very interesting series, want more of games like this, probably one of the best series i've seen. bravo!
Top shelf private reserve series, what a beauty
Thanks Artosis
ZeLot is taking perfect advantage of Zerg’s ability to bank larva and completely switch his army comp on a dime, amazing counter to Ample’s defensive switches.
I think zealot is my new favorite Zerg. The guardian rushes are just so good
awesome series. I guess this is what happens if there is more than 1 race playing in the game. GG.
me in 2012: brood war is pretty much a solved game
zelot in 2023:
There's a reason SC1 is considered by many the greatest RTS of all time. Some people swear by AoE2 which is also awesome and there's still a C&C Red Alert fanbase but I think seeing how many different metas there have been for SC1 shows it's the deepest.
This is actually nothing new, 3base muta into guardians were played long ago.
That was really fun to watch. Thanks for the cast.
These guys get the award for "best series overall."
WOOOW!
oh it hurt so much, i believed in ample right up to the end there ;~;
Guardian/Hydra is pretty much how I beat the campaign as a kid. Cool to see how good it can look when someone who's good does it.
Dude what a great series! Really awesome games
Crazy game. Still, could have looked so different with two more turrets in the main early on.
Mass queens vs Protoss now Mass Guardians vs Terrans, so much love from under rated BW units from the past and I LOVE IT! Gives me nostalgic feels since I used to use guardians to flank my opponent while my main army of lings/hydras occupy the front ;D P.S. Medics be dumb as always and not healing marines but healing the SCVs instead LOL GL HF This series was awesome TY RT!
crazy ass series
Guardians! Kek! Great games! Thank you!
Up to the bitter end ... Rest in Peace Brave Terrans!
Damn, it is as Snow said, no mercy for Terran - Terran is like a grass which always grows back, and you must stomp it again and again until it dies
Definitely a great series!
This game felt like a slow death more than a close game.
I was surprised that the Valkyrie's didn't damage the Guardians more.
Crabby bois are thicc, wraiths are more effective against them
Guardians have 2 base armor and Ample for some reason did not go +1 air attack.
5 damage vs 2+1 armor equals 2 damage per hit. It needs to shoot more than 75 missiles at them. Even with their firing speed, it takes a lot of time.
switching to cloaked wraith probably would've been better after he went guardian
Also side note, valks are so OP. Not hating either, i main T and off race Z.. so awesome seeing mutas gettin crushed and 1 valk gets away with 1 hp and all the mutas are dead or are nearly dead too
I didn't want it to end :(
Are Valks actually better then Vessel's? I feel like Vessels are a better choice.
Artosis commentating: The BEAUTY of such a rare situation, my god
Artosis playing: It's actually INSANE how overpowered Zerg is! I hate this shit game!
Masterpiece
perfect game
Im no pro at all, i just been playing for the love of the game forever. So with that said does anyone else feel like battle mutas are the way to go? They can stay and fight more and they do plenty damage every volley when you have a mass of them. Whats the consensus?
that harass 7-7:30 is gg, totally outplayed
Loved the stream last night, protoss is broken
That zerg build seems a bit broken.
Like, what's the best-case hard counter to that? Was it really just being out-micro'd? Better turret placement? More turrets?
Just seemed like the mutas traded so well with the +1 carapace to the point that there was no recovery from the early harass. Add to that nearly indestructible guardians (do wraiths do more damage to armored than valks maybe?). That just looked really frustrating to Terran. He had a solid build order that was fast and greedy, and it just didn't have a chance.
I'm not complaining, just genuinely curious :)
better micro for sure, the build is not that good against a decent microing terran. Its because you cant micro the guardian since they are very slow, but good valks micro will destroy the guardians. Besides, the marine micro at the beginning is bad, since he went 4 racks but lost too much marine and could not put any pressure on the zerg at all.
he lost too many marines carelessly, never got a critical mass.
Yes, wraiths would have done much better against guardians with +3 armor
A lot of mis-micro by Ample to be sure. There was no reason to push out onto the map with his Marine/Medic against that Muta-ball when he did, and he let waaaaaaaaay too many marines die to bad micro in the skirmishes in his base. Also a lot of really bad Medic AI/Pathing caused issues at his ramp, when pushing out, etc.
Return harassment and quick economy boom
I like how Artosis is cheering on Ample, but my dude, he was done. At no stage of the game was he not just barely surviving. Zelot simply played better in all 3 games.
Z crushed him man, he didn't even breath
Zelot is what makes broodwar fun. Boring macro sux, cheese is the way
Wow really nice match between these two players! The result here is misleading.
Great games, but Ample really needs to work on his micro. His cost effectiveness is so poor. There is no way you should be losing that many marines vs hydras, there is no way that you should be attacking a group of like 8 lurkers with marines after they burrow, and there is no way you should lose so many valks to hydras while attacking guardians. You shouldn't just march into the darkness with unsieged tanks when you know you are facing guardians and lurkers.
Think of this, he made like10 valks that game, but never had more than 3 doing anything at a time, and there were no scourges to contend with. He should have had like 8 valks left towards the end of the game, and with the mm and tanks, that would have easily been enough to defend his natural and get back on his feet. Instead, he had 0 valks and then just marched into dark, open ground after that amazing hold.
And where is Falcon Paladin who always says that Guardians loose the game in pro level sc?
That dude never played BW.
Big gaping hole… two holes 😅😅😅
Hmm, imagine zerglings could climb buildings…
Instead they just hump them to obliteration
mmmm this game felt very sloppy for Ample xD
guardians way too tanky. seems like gol build is needed here
Meh Zelot just playing with this food. The skill level is not even close
Sound sucks. I can barely hear game sounds or music over your booming voice. I'm going to keep complaining about this until you change it. God I hope the ASL videos aren't like this.
On a positive note, cool game!
Sounds is fine for me and most people, check the device you’re listing to it onto.
balance between unit sounds and voice is very good. Music could definitely be higher, I don't hear it much, but does one really need the music in a starcraft cast?
balance between unit sounds and voice is very good. Music could definitely be higher, I don't hear it much, but does one really need the music in a starcraft cast?
@@SeeAndDreamify
I think the unit sounds could definitely be higher, but yes the music is especially quiet. I think the music is the kind of thing that adds something to the experience that you don't realize until it's missing.
@@FlymanMS
It's not my device. There's other brood war matches I can listen to on youtube that are better.
I strongly believe it's "fine" for other people because they just don't know the difference. They don't even know what they're missing, OR they wouldn't care either way.
Artosis, please sponsor a best of 7 with ample and zealot someday!
I wonder what would happen if he went vessels first no valks.