How to Install Knock Down Door Frames
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- Опубликовано: 16 авг 2018
- This is the same method we use to teach and show our crew how to install knock down door frames. Please let us know if you have any questions!
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Amazing help my first time installing a knock down door and this videos was a great asset
Glad we could help! I appreciate the feed back
@@mitchellacoustical3119 طددددد ر
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I will be installing my very first knock down door in the near future and this instructional video was perfect.
From a door installer that has installed thousands of commercial doors and KD frames, some tips. This isn't how we install frames but his method gets the job done. Leave the laser at home, they simply are not accurate enough and take more time than a 6' level and a framing square. We use a custom made 42 X32 square. A good mechanic can install 8-10 frames an hour. The biggest problem I see when the drywall contractors install frames is they are twisted, the bottom legs are not perfectly parallel to each other. We have a custom made spreader that sits on the floor between the legs that is exactly 36" and keeps the frame from twisting. Residential guys and girls: the frame needs to be exactly 36". do not try to give it more room like 36-3/16 like some would do with a residential wood jamb. All 4 sides of the jamb must be caulked, especially the hinge side. Caulk is basically the only thing holding the frame secure. The rough opening for KD frames is NOT 2" bigger than the door size, it's 1 1/2" to 1-3/4" inches bigger than the door width and 1/2" bigger in height. The rough opening for a 3/0 x 7/0 door is 37-1/2 x 84-1/2.
I have installed every type of commercial steel door frames out there ,as ,I was a door installer for hire ,first with a door supplier company ,and then with a large construction company ,so we gave labor bids only for piece work installs ,and the general contractors supplied all the frames and doors and hardware accessories .
This video was pretty good depiction of a normal condition ,but when you do schools and hospitals and hotels ,the framing conditions are not always perfect,and the installer has much work to do in short amounts of time. The best advice I can give to any installer ,(small scale) is that caulking these knocked down drywall frames is 90% of the strength of the frame ,most caulking contractors do good ,but some never caulk the tight hinge jambs in corners ,as they must bend the caulking tube tip to get in the corner and caulk that hinge jamb ,and when the heavy doors are hung and used ,that jamb will loosen and the door weight sill sag the door,and cause fitting problems. I have been called back on install warranty ,many times just to point this flaw out to the contractors ,and they always recall the caulking crews to do it proper ...remember ,caulking is 90% of the strength of this slip on frame !!
Your video was good ,but you did not stress the importance of the proper rough opening required ?I have made it a rule ,when framers ask what I would require ,I tell them two inches wider than the door width and one in h taller than the door height ,this allows a one inch overlap all around ,and will work with all types of K/D frames .
One last tip ,for advanced installers ,when I set and plumb the hinge jambs ,I always cheat the hinge jamb "inward" about a light eighth ,anticipating the weight of the door "sagging" a bit in the frame ,and causing the need to shim the bottom hinge ,to raise the door back up ,it is a subtle amount ,and usually works to where no shimming is needed. Just a tip for the pros out there !! Also most installers don't use lasers to set frames ,but is o.k. to do ,but when levels are used ,magnetics are great ,so you don't have to hold them during installs ,but , I always stress placing the levels on the door side of the rabbets ,as that is where the reveal is seen ,and not on a stop .thanks for the video guys !!
Ill have to try that cheating tip, I haven't used it but in theory it sounds reasonable enough. All your points make sense, With our video I was just going about the basics. If someone didn't have the fundamentals to start, they wont get to the advanced portions of schools and remodels as you mentioned. I appreciate the comment!
@@mitchellacoustical3119 I always appreciate knowing there are still craftsmen in my field out there ,it is a dwindling art ....I have struggled to find good door and hardware installers in the past ,I finally decided that ...they must be "made" from scratch ,so yes,you are correct ,people must learn the proper basic foundations of any skill ...then build on it ,to become a skilled craftsman in that trade. Great stuff guys , I am semi retired from the game now ,but still love talking "shop" with the younger legacy, myself and many others have left behind ...keep up the good teachings ,America needs you to continue this art !!!
@@mikefournier8263 I appreciate the kind words! It all started by my crew having questions, so that when they have one, my team and I make a video on it. Doors seemed to be the thing that guys would get stuck on, so we really tried to make it easier for them on the installs.
+1 for the larger rough opening. If you look your adjuster plates stick out 3/4" to 1" depending on manufacturer.. At 37 1/2" your adjusters should be tight with no room for adjustment. Very likely to dig in and bend the adjuster when you push the second side up also. In my area we always case the rough in with a 2x4 on the sides. That lets your adjuster hit something a bit more solid and gives the bottom jamb screw something to grab better. 25ga. will drop every time on a solid core door. I actually like to use the clips on heavier fire rated doors especially if the jamb side is raised to level the head. I set the clip all the way down on the concrete, attach it, then use a 5 in 1 to lift the frame till the head is level. Then run a self tapper through the hole in the frame into the clip. Guaranteed not to sag when you hang your door. We also try to send a guy around right in front of the painters to double check plumb, level and spread right before they caulk the frames in. Especially if they've been installed for a while with people going in and out with carts, scaffolds and scissor lifts. Cheap insurance... Sucks to go to hang a door on a finished and painted wall with flooring already in and have a 1 inch gap at the bottom. If possible we try to swing the doors before they get caulked around.
I agree AND tighten tension screws immediately after leveling the head !!!!!! NOT at the end, you can throw it out of plum
Tip before setting your frame. A lot of times the set screws are painted or stuck to the clip inside the jam. Breaking those screws loose will save you from removing a frame. Hold the clip with your hand and a few turns clockwise with the screw will ensure a smooth finish when securing the frame.
presuming it's called a knock down because you lock it together by knocking the tabs down....you're video was great. clear, concise, correct, complete. Thank you
Thank you! We appreciate it. Glad we were able to help
Thanks for making it easy and visualizing it so simple. Years of experience in ten minutes and that is how much time you have saved us. Thanks again
Glad we could help👍
All your videos are great . I been a commercial carpenter for 8 years and we do everything in your videos very informational keep up the good work man👍
I really appreciate it! I'm just trying to produce content that I would have liked to see if RUclips was around when I was in the trades, so I'm glad it beneficial for a journeyman like yourself as well!
Great video! Very helpful. Thanks!
This was really helpful, thanks man.
As always. Great video. Thanks
Thank you for taking the time to teach us!!!!
Glad we could help!
To confirm: 3070 dr requires 38.25 opening; so always add 2-1/4" for rough opening width. Please confirm RO height opening. Great educational video. Professional, clear and concise
I recommend 7 FT 1
ADD 2 INCHES TO WIDTH AND 1 1/4 TO HEIGHT .. THE 1/4 IS FOR FLOORING ON THE HEIGHT MEASUREMENT .
@@whirlwind8825 correct, i always add 1 1/4 to my height, better to have that extra of play
Thank you, this was most helpful 🎉
Thanks straight to the point.
Very helpful thanks!
Finally found a decent video on this. Thanks
Nicely done - well explained , very informative
Thank you!
Thank you it's an awesome job . But I need to install the same one on contract wall . If you can advise me thank you
Great video! I learned something today!
Thank you👍
Nice work Mitch
Great job. Very informative
Thank you!
Great video. I’m installing one of these my first time and having to frame up the door with wood. Recommended rough opening is 40.25” which seems wide to me since the frame is only 40” from end to end outside diameter. Door didn’t come with instructions, is there a standard overlap you want the frame to go over the drywall?
Excellent video I'm a commercial metal stud framer drywall hanger finisher great job bud I couldn't have done it better myself
Thank you!
thanks. very helpful. going to try it tomorrow.
Hopefully it’s easy to follow👍
Love the video! What is the rough opening. I heard you say it 38 something. For a 36in door. Thanks
Thanks, does the frame come with a pre-drilled dimple for the screws ? also if the openings is 3 15/16 how will you handle when you get the door which I assume will be 36"
Thanks a lo bro it helps me a lot,
Great install video.
Thank you! It's much appreciated
great video...👍
got a knock down set up and want to cut out a few feet below existing window in back of a garage , issue or challenge is roughing on window is a few inches on each side big should I keep line of window width and frame with wood to allow proper measurements so that frame hugs snug then cap sides for a nice finish
Tks for all your help.
It is easy after seeing how you did it. Thanks for giving us your years of experience in several minutes' videos. About 71,000 people have watched this video including the ones who gave a thumb down (I don't know why). Just imagine how much time you gave back to society and we can do other things.
Thanks again;
Frank, we appreciate the kind words. Glad we could help you with this! Thank you
Excellent video, thanks! One suggestion when framing is to place a wood 2x4 inside of the metal studs so the base screw has something solid to sink in to. Also makes the opening more stable.
That is correct I have seen it done both ways you are correct it is better with wood
no wood in fire rated assemblies which is the reason to use a metal fire door ..
@@whirlwind8825 Use fire rated ply ripped down to the throat size of the stud. I work high rise and that’s what we do sometimes depending on the job
No need..waste of time and materials
Your right fire treated wood does a better job.outherwise it will work it's way loose over time(20 years experience
Thanks. Very helpful.
Glad we could help!
excelente tecnica
Thanks bro!!
Good video. Will show to my crew as a best practices reminder. Quick question though….were you saying your finished width was 35 15/16”?
I failed a TAS inspection for an 1/8” on aisle width. Not sure if 1/16th would get caught, but I just wanted clarification when I show to the crew.
Well I believe this is so the reveal around the inside of the door stays at an 1/8”. That lets us know that the door is set properly. Not sure if that answers your question, I’d have to throw a tape on one of our doors
What is the rough opening when framing say for a 3 0 7 0
Good job!
Thank you!
Thank you
This is exactly what I’ve been looking for! Only question I have, is there any type of backing placed behind the metal frame? Or with a knock down, do they provide enough support being screwed straight in to the thin metal framing?
Glad we could help. We’ve never had to put anything behind the frame. Sometimes the screw are hard to set depending on how large you make your opening.
@@mitchellacoustical3119 Eventually the frame will be caulked to the drywall and that's what keeps it from moving/rattling
Just one question if a have trashhold or solepain under jamb or frame what i need to do? Tjanks and great job
It shouldn’t matter. This frame can be placed on finish floor so it can account for threshold
I'm researching gyp board control joints at knock down frames and whether they should be installed to prevent cracks in drywall above doors. Wondering if cracks could be caused by door movement/vibration or lack of control joints. Also wondering if retrofitting CJ's would help. Can you add any insights? THX
Control joints are used on long walls on slabs with control joints cut in the slab .. Or in a high rise where two structures butt together with a control joint in the slab between buildings. If a wall cracks over a door the drywall was not fastened to a stud correctly or pieces with wide gaps installed and not pre-filled with compound. Or mesh tape was used .
I just picked up a knock down door I ordered. It has tabs on the inside that look like they are to be attached before/under the drywall. There are a set at the bottom and the middle of of both jams. Also the latch box seems pretty close to the edge of the trim, so I need to notch the framing to account for the latch box? As you can tell this is my first knock down door.
My apologies for missing this comment, I try to respond to all of them. And you may have gotten the answer too by now, but from what I'm reading two things could be in play, those tabs are to be tighten to secure the door and make it rigid or those tabs are just there to secure it and make sure there is no adjustments to be made one its flush up against a stud. If needed we can make a video showing both. Lets us know how it went and sorry for the slow reply!
Rough openings are important ,my recommendation is always two inches wider than the door width ,for side stud opening ,and one inch taller than the height of the door,no matter the width or height ,and the "box type strike boxes will have room ,no notching if the studs needed . But once the wall is built ,notching for strike boxes is necessary . Some K/D frames have screw holes at the bottom ,some have the behind drywall tabs ,that are screwed to the bare stud plate at bottom ,usually the drywall is raised up enough for the tabs ,but sometimes you need to cut some out ,and the tabs are on the stud plate ,not the surface of the drywall . This is just the brand type. The countersunk hole type is mist installer friendly. But ,you may have no option there .
Fast way... set door jamb in opening . Plumb hinge side , tighten upper screws . Hang door and set strike side and header to perfect reveal To the door .... Job done
How do you finish mud around frame?
(I needed to add strips of drywall on 2 x 4 framing to achieve tight fit / correct wall thickness.)
You have to pull all your mud tight. We usually will cut out about 10” of any frame we need to replace in a wall. This way the taper has room to float the mud around the door
Hi buddy thanks for your effort and time . Can I install a welded door frame if the wall openings is already cut or I need to order a collapsible one ? (Because I am assuming we need to mount a welded door frame before building the wall around it .Thanks for reading
You can you the welded frame and build the opening back in, but a knock down would be less work
@@mitchellacoustical3119 thanks heaps for the reply
Nice call on the 35 15/16 surprised I don't see that more often.
Yea I think it helps plumb a door better than making it 36”
Who made the knock down door frame you are installing?
When building a house why do you put trim around a doorframe?
What is the rough opening on the height
Question, I’m installing 4 of your exterior welded frames w doors in existing bldg w brick exterior. What are the center holes in frame, I’m assuming to fasten to wood rough opening. Is there a video showing this install? Thanks, craig
Typically those are filled with mortar or grout and then that pin. We wouldn’t have a video on that, but try to see if a mason has made that video.
you rock !
Ha I appreciate it👍
I used to undersize (order) door width by 3/16" (3/32" reveal each side). But for the past 15 years or so I undersize 1/4" because if I don't I get phone calls that the door doesn't fit the frame. That's because unfortunately it's rare to see a plumb and square rough opening. If your net frame opening is 36", 1/4" undersized gets you a nice 1/8" reveal. I'd be careful if you're going to make your net opening 35-15/16", because if someone is undersizing the door by 3/16"...you're not going to have much of a reveal. It's amazing how big of a difference 1/16" of an inch makes. Great video by the way!
Hey nice video what is the rough opening for the door
"For a knockdown frame you need to be 1-1/2'' to 1-3/4'' larger than the door slab (for example 3-0= 36'' slab, RO= 37-1/2'' to 37-3/4''). We generally allow our guys a 1/4'' tolerance." -Max
Hey thanks for the help 👌👌👌
I have to install these on a rough opening with no drywall and studs around door frame lose. Any recommendations?
Check out our welded frame video. I think that’s what you’re looking for
Can these frames be flipped around to change the swing?
I think you're asking about Right hand or Left hand, not just setting and turning the door 180 degrees. If that the case no you cant change a LH to a RH and vise versa, but you can change it from swinging into a room to swinging out of a room. Hope this answered your question.
Do the walls have to be finished for these knockdown frames to fit properly? We are replacing a garage door with a walk through door and want to install this type of door when framing up. I'm not sure yet what we are finishing the walls with, but I do know it WON'T be sheetrock, I hate that stuff..lol
For the KD (knock downs) yes they would have to have some sort of finish ie drywall, denzglass, or plywood. What you might be describing is a video we did on welded frames. The welded frame get set and then finished to with drywall, or some type of board. Check our welded door frame video and see if that's the scenario you're talking about.
@@mitchellacoustical3119 thanks so much! I will definitely check out the other video.
can you tell me the rough opening for the sheetrock
Which way do you turn the screws at the top dissension securely in the frame
I would think counter clockwise
Simple 😊
What should the length of the header be for a 36" door? What should the opening be for the same size door?
No. The door/frame you choose will tell you what the rough opening should be. They're usually at least 2" wider than the door size itself
What about siding and drywall? My door frame was sized for the wall stud size and won't fit after stucco and drywall.
My guess is the stucco is thicker than 5/8” then on both sides
Please how do I fixed my wooden doors when it get damaged 😊
WHAT IS TYPICAL RUFF OPENINGS FOR A KNOCK DOWN FRAME
Hey man, I saw your videos puting door jambs only, could you make a video installing the doors? Or other guys do those?
We do have that video. I just checked. It should be called install a commercial door. Hope that helps👍
We do have that video. I just checked. It should be called install a commercial door. Hope that helps👍
my boss bought 1/2" drywall instead of 5/8". Is it ok to shim out the difference?
You can buy a frame for 1/2" or 5/8" rock. Your best bet at this point is to shift the frame into the room 1/8" and caulk it from the inside while leaving the best finish in the hallway.
Is it possible/safe to remove a door frame like this years later and replace it with a residential-style wood door frame?
I would think so. I’m guessing you have to put in wood studs to pin the new casing to.
What’s the con and pro vs regular pre hung and this ?
Depends on if the drywall is already installed or not. Otherwise we’d used a welded frame. Both are fine. Knock down may be a bit quicker to install but not by much
The clips you used at the bottom of the door, is that a separate thing or are they already attached to the frame? I am currently installing a frame and there are there tabs (folded up) at the bottom and higher than midway. It seems like they get unfolded and slide under the drywall? Or maybe they are for stud fastening? Either way I never saw the drywall clips shown.
Those clips come separately. The door mfg should provide them. We screw them to the drywall then put vinyl base over them
There is sometimes a dimple in each leg that we screw as well, it’s an either or the clips get provided. Ours may have been dimpled to put a screw in
Hello from Carpenters 215 👋🏼
Can a welded frame be installed in an opening if it's already drywalled?
No you’d have to use a knockdown frame.
@@mitchellacoustical3119 Is it the same for interior fixed glass in a hollow metal frame? Like if you remodel, does the window gotta be a knock down
My door drags on the floor once open just short of 90 degrees. Can I use the screws pressing against the studs at the top to push the frame toward the hinge side in order to get the door to operate properly?
nyc sport yea that would be my best guess. I would look at the frame and see if the hinge side is plumb. That’s where you’ll start, then check the hinges see if they’re sucked tight to the frame and last but not least check to see the floor is level. Hope this helps!
Or just under cut the door..that's the proper way to fix your problem
Tim Wozniak absolutely disagree. The frame should be fixed. Not cut the door, that’s hack work.
@@mitchellacoustical3119 hack work? So jack the frame out of plumb cause the floor is not level? So he trys to adjust the hinge side and then realized the door is know not closing cause its jacked out of square..I've been doing this along time my freind..
@@mitchellacoustical3119but if you wanna jack a frame all out of whack so the door don't rub that shows your skill set..and they are not screws at the top of a knock down frame , they are tensioners.
Are we supposed to get the coroners welded?
No they have tabs at the top that bend down to lock it in place. Our you can put screws in where they lock together on the top.
You could use a piece of tape to hold the top up lol
Great video. But I couldn't do help wondering that for a country that ejected the British, I'm amazed you are still using imperial measurements
can a dead bolt be added to a door like this when there is none in it?
It would be hard if the manufacturer didn’t mill it out.
@@mitchellacoustical3119 how would i go about it if i needed to install one of those... i can share a pic of the door.. .maybe that can help guiding me better...
thanks!
Can you install wood trim?
The frame acts as the trim
Great job. Only thing I'd do different would use a construction grade screw at the toe vs. a graphite "pointer" drywall screw as suggested.
Why wouldn’t you use the laser for the strike side as well? Laser the top corner then match the bottom.
You could. I always just measure over.
Next time we set knock downs I’ll measure a few and see which way I like.
@@mitchellacoustical3119 I don't work much with steel frames, but for my residential wood jambs, once I've secured the hinge side dead plumb and confirmed that the F.O. is correct at top of jamb, I just use a spacer stick set to match the exact jamb opening width at top to set the lock side jamb dead parallel to hinge side. Any reason this method would not work well with metal frames?
1/16 +1/16=1/8 inch gab even on the metal door spacing.
We all call em pointers brother!
I always use a spreader for welded and KD frames. It's just faster than measuring. Especially when you're setting 25-30 frames a day.
Oh absolutely, but the video is just as a one off. We have a video for making a jig for raco alm door frames. I understand what you’re saying👍
Mitchell Acoustical Keep up the good work! I enjoy watching metal framing videos made by competent mechanics willing to spread proper knowledge to someone coming up the ladder. I’ve had to fake it till I made it once or twice in my days as a professional screw turner. A video would’ve been nice back in the day when I hungry for knowledge and on the come up.
Laser level is way slower than using a nice stabilio.
Bahahahah
Taunt lol
Yup! My mistake🙃
@mitchellacoustical3119 lol all good, you still speak mo betta then me
And if I don't have a laser level?
You’ve gotta use a plumb bob or 4’ level inside the jamb.
@@mitchellacoustical3119 And the level on the head jamb to get that right?
@@Maxid1 yea a 2' level should do the trick
your door is best indicator, you don't need a laser or an even level.
Wheres your hardhat?
First of all, you never started off with what the rough opening should be for the door
Your pointers are self tappers
I'm sorry to say it's unsafe to put the top piece in first it's always best to put one leg first in an angle That way it would hold the top piece and then the other leg the way you did it it could fall and walk you in your head unsafe
I mean sure. I put the first leg in right after. Typically they’re fit tight enough to hold for a brief second
Leveling the header by measuring off of the floor will be inaccurate, if your floor isn’t level. Use a level.
That’s why we use a laser and shoot a horizontal line and measure up.
You forgot punch and dimple..
Our manufacturer does this for us.
Sorry about your Carhart hat
"These ones" ...... what?
Helps when you reference a time in the video, its been so long since we've shot this. Thanks