I think an interesting compromise on the design would have been to have the deep black eyes with white pupils, but only in shadow. Like, when he wears his hat pulled down low enough to put a shadow over them, or when the setting frames him more darkly. Generally, you get the more expressive version from BTAS, but at certain times, for a dramatic affect, the eyes shift to that empty, inhuman look, making them stand out by the contrast from normal, which would sell the effect better, because you'd also have those be scenes where there are more dramatic shadows on his face.
An effect like that was used for several panels in “The Killing Joke”, where he would be in shadows and his eyes would have the beady effect. I think that may have been where Timm and crew got the initial inspiration.
I could see him tilting his head down and revealing his blank void of uncaring black hole eyes when he's trying to be intimidating and cruel or angry, but lighting up into that iconic yellow as he's spewing off jokes or is just generally happy. Could be a good way of judging his current emotion without compromising that big, toothy, ever-iconic smile.
I was less upset about the change in joker’s eyes and more upset about the lack of red lips. Those red lips made him look so much more like a clown. Without it, he just looks like an albino.
I don't understand why in the redesign they got rid of the lips. Joker's red lips have been there from the start, getting rid of them is like removing Batman's ears, it just doesn't feel right. Did drawing the lips cost that much money that they couldn;t afford it?
I can only guess that they didn't like the bright red lips, but went too far in the opposite direction with TNBA Joker. Fortunately Batman Beyond and Justice League's Joker got the lips back.
I think the Justice League/Batman Beyond/Static Shock looks were his best. Using Black around the eyes and having his lips black, but with a red highlight was really slick. Also, the brighter highlight on his hair too.
That's how I remember him and I 100% agree. This video just confirmed it. I think it gives just the right amount of detail to his face, which is perfect since The Joker is a VERY expressive character. I also think it makes him more serious looking, so the audience actually finds him menacing when he does something terrifying. I always remembered The Joker Returns and how scary and dark the entire plot was. If he had either of the prior two designs, that would have been a failure. He definitely needed a massive rework to match the tone of the grungier Neo Gotham aesthetic.
Yeah I think the TNBA is a good design that just needed a few little tweaks to be perfect I've seen some recolors of the TNBA Joker that adds the red lips, tweaks the suit color, the eye color and hair color to use the colors from the Batman Beyond: Return of thd Joker/Justice League design and honestly I think it looks fucking amazing
I think what bothered me the most about his later designs is that they limited how colorful he was originally. I thought the added yellow, red and orange truly made him clown-like. Idk just the purple and green seem boring to look at.
Yeah, plus I think it worked better with the "insane clown" vibe. It helped him go from a big ol' goof to a menacing threat, based purely off his expressions. With a dark color palette, even when he's being goofy, there's still an element of threat to him.
His design in the flashback of Batman Beyond Return of the Joker was the best. In BTAS his design looked amazing but his facial expressions sometimes looked awkward especially when he got angry. Of couse it varied depending on what studio was animating him but even when the better studios where animating him it never quite felt consistent. Sometimes his nose was longer, sometimes his chin was rounder, sometimes it was pointier, sometimes his cheekbones were more pronounced and so on. In TNBA it was almost a complete downgrade. It is known that Bruce Timm based that design on certain pannels of the Mad Love comic where Joker was stylized but that doesn't work when he always looks like that. The lack of red lips made him look more bland and the black eyes was a weird trend in the 90's that appeared quite frequently. The green of his hair barely seemed green and looked more like dark blue or black. The only changes that were harmless were Joker wearing a green shirt which is really just a wardrobe change that Joker is always known for. I do think that his ribbon big bow tie does look better than the smaller one he had which sometimes looked like it was a clip on. In the flashback of Batman Beyond Return of the Joker he looked amazing. The two previous designs were merged to create something that took all the good elements from both of them. He had red lips again but it was a much darker shade of red, his hair was distinctly green again, he was less skinny than he was in TNBA, he had a more pointy chin and facial features which helped make his face more expressive than it ever was before, his ribbon big bow tie was even adjusted a bit to look more detailed. It was perfect. In Justice League he looked almost the same as in Return of the Joker except that his colour palette was a bit of a darker blue/purple shade and he also had a bit of a hunchback. Suprisingly his Justice League design is the only design that gave his shirt an actual collar. Before that he never had one in the DCAU.
the newer design looks like Freakazoid. I always thought the Creeper also kind of looks like freakazoid too, but better. The Creeper is closer to what the 2nd Joker redesign should have looked like.
The main problem with the black-eyes design is that (apart from the excellent TMS / Ghibli work), it makes The Joker look _cute_ - something he should never be. One of the things that makes the character so scary - which the Burton film really got right - was the way his mouth is always frozen in a grin, whereas only his eyes betray his actual emotion. It's both mesmerizing and terrifying. The Burton film even provides a horrifying explanation for it: Jack's face gets sliced after Batman deflects a bullet Jack shoots at him. Later, the mob surgeon tells him, by way of an excuse: _"You have to understand, Mr Napier... The nerves were completely severed."_ Of course, I'm of a very specific generation for whom Burton's Batman universe was an unprecedented revolution when it happened. And as wonderful as Mark Hamil's performance is, it's still part of a squeaky-voiced, Irish-lilting tradition that extends back to the camp antics of Cesar Romero. (Who was my first Joker, but not my best.) The utter b@st@rd you really want to see Batman to go up against would never have made it past the _broadcast standards_ team for BTAS. He's the one who coldly declares: _"I am the world's first homicidal artist: I make art until somebody dies"_ Or who is able to sarcastically intone cod verse, to the strains of Stephen Foster's _Beautiful Dreamer:_ _I'm only laughing on the outside,_ _My smile is just skin-deep,_ _If you could see inside, I'm really crying;_ _Won't you join me for a weep?_
What makes the joke scary is that he is a human! He’s not a super powerful monster. He is a guy you say the wrong thing to at a bar or truly regret cutting off in traffic. The original design is so wonder because it’s a person, but when that grin pops up like it did in Joker’s Favor then Joker goes from some random guy on the road to a person you just had the dumbest road rage of your life in
Depends on which animation studio was doing the episode. Thankfully Joker's Favor was done by one of the better ones, which I have no doubt was on purpose because it was a top tier episode.
Imagine if they went with what the 2012 tmnt did where the eyes change when they get serious and for this it’d be the joker has his normal eyes, but when he gets angry or manic his eyes go black
Exactly. I can't help but feel like his eyes being black ALL the time was overcompensation. The effect was always most striking when it was used specifically when his face had a menacing shadow cast on it. I feel like a sudden swap from his more "normal" eyes to the white dot ones really accentuates the whole "inhuman" aspect, like a true nature surfacing from under his normally goofy demeanor.
Yeah, as imperfect as the original was (I'm literally just now noticing how weird some of those shots look) I still prefer the original. I like the more human eyes. Because he's not inhuman. Jack Nicholson was a great Joker because he was a HUMAN playing a crazy disfigured human character. Same with Heath Ledger (RIP). The Joker IS HUMAN but with a sociopathic/psychopathic personality. He's not a supernatural creature from Hell or outer space. The fact that he is human and he does the things he does is what makes him the scariest character even in Mask of The Phantasm with a literal ghost like vigilante made to look like the Grim Reaper himself. Joker is legit more terrifying BECAUSE of his physical imperfections and the amazing performance by Mark Hamill.
BTAS version remains my favorite, and you're right, Mask of the Phantasm Joker rocks hard, nothing screams Joker more than the scene you've put in this video.
When they showed the redesigns for the new animated series my only issue with the Joker was no lips. Having him with just white face kind of didn't work for me. I would have been fine with even black lips since they wanted him to be darker.
Definitely the lack of the big red lips is what ruined his first redesign. His big toothy red-lipped grin was easily his most defining feature. It was so striking against his pale face and the rest of his costume which generally used cooler colors like purple, and green. Without that grin, and with those black irises, he ended up just looking lifeless and drab, like one of those old-timey retro cartoons.
I actually do really like the new color scheme of purple and green. It is much more vibrant. I also prefer the bow tie. I was not a fan of the droopy one from btas
@@roberthintz4017No it wasn't. His original colour scheme was just white and purple. That's the colours of his original attire from his first appearance.
I do prefer the new bowtie, but I actually prefer the old color scheme for the most part. I like when Joker has orange or yellow as the secondary color in his suit à la The Killing Joke or Arkham Asylum whether for the undershirt or vest if he has one (I prefer when he does). Either that or just purple and white. I don’t mind when he has green on the suit, but I think when it’s absent it allows his hair to pop more and is a tad redundant when it’s present.
Another detail that nobody really talks about how Hamill basically adjusted the sound of his Joker voice to best fit each design. My favorite will always be Batman Beyond's. Definitely the most cool and menacing.
As a kid the joker redesign was the most striking change. I reasoned that the design must mean something thematically- that Joker's chemically-induced "condition" was getting progressively worse and making him appear less human. Either that, or he gave up on "trying" to look like a clown with his red lips and just embracing his increasingly more ghoulish natural look.
I hate what I call the "shark eyes" Joker redesign. My partner hates it because it de emphasizes the mouth/lips, which is such an iconic part of his design. I hate the shark eyes because they don't allow for a range of expressions. Like the shot in this video at 4:28 where he frowns -- shark eyes don't work at all for that. It just looks like Freakazoid. (So, exactly what you've said at the 5min mark! Yes, I am writing this comment as I watch the video.)
i mean, my biggest gripe with the tnba design is that joker's face is basically 2 colors, white and black, as the green is non-existant and there being no lips or yellow teeth as opposed to the btas having 5 colors just within his face: white black green red yellow i also think his suit looks really plain with barely any green and again featuring only 2 colors in total instead of 5
The scariest Joker for me was in Mask of the Phantasm. The black eyes white pupil design did to Joker what it would do to a great white shark to have no teeth.
Interesting how going in to this video i was thinking “Joker’s original design was the definitive one for me, especially how he looked in that scene of Mask of the Phantasm were he’s laughing like a maniac” and the video ends in just that. Feels great when something so specific can be valued by someone else and how it leaves a lasting impression just the same.
My take: I think the dot eyes would work better with the BTAS style. I love the idea of the menacing, inhuman look the eyes give. But the effect kind of goes away with the more cartoony, simplistic, less expressive style of the redesign. They would ironically be very menacing on the old design I think. As shown in that comic cover for Mad Love in the video at 1:59.
well i for one LOVED the second redesign. it made him a thousand times more menacing, and the lack of complexity in his face really makes his emotions kinda fun to look at. its also really easy to replicate and get right at different angles. maybe its because i dont really like the original design, but i loved how they changed it for TNBA.
AS much as I love the new Batman adventures, the villain redesgins were often a mess. Joker is not even the biggest offender, just look how the massacred Catwoman
@@rainbowtoyfunrandomess1982Probably the pale makeup, if not her ditching the blonde hair. Either way, at least that got an explanation in Gotham Adventures issue 4.
@@rainbowtoyfunrandomess1982 Maybe her redesign being basically just a black silhouette with just a jawline that's (for some inexplicable reason) covered in white makeup, while also sporting cartoonishly large eye lenses and ears? Her original design wasn't super iconic but this one looks like a reject from the Teen Titans cartoon.
I like the original design as he is more accurate to the comics especially with the lips are red as they’re supposed while the second design is exact opposite as he has no red lips, his hair looks more black than green and not to mention those black eyes and third one is a bit better than the second one. Are you going to do a video on why they redesign the other villains like Scarecrow,Penguin, Mad Hatter, Clayface,Riddler, Poison Ivy and Killer Croc?
I already talked about Penguin and Scarecrow’s redesigns in their corresponding videos. The others may get a mention in other videos, but not a dedicated video of their own - there isn’t that much to say about those redesigns.
@@SerumLake right because if I did brought them on the Justice league and Batman Beyond I would give them redesigns like I make the Scarecrow look like a combination of Ezekiel Rage from Jonny Quest and the killer from Nightbreed, Penguin looking like his original design mix with the new one. Killer Croc being Grey then Green kinda reminds me of the Hulk where in his comic he was grey due to a printing error as he was always meant to be green where the grey hulk became Joe Fixit and talks gangster. I wonder how the mad hatter ended looking like a Santa elf or a British Leprechaun as he was originally tall in the first series but as tall as Batman but still
Baby Doll's redesign can also be interesting. Makes me think that she deliberately wanted to look a bit older during the TNBA era. Heck, there are even some scenes where she appears to be wearing a padded bra on her chest. Still miss those blue eyes though, while I'm weirded out as to why Bruce Wayne suddenly got those. Good thing Justice League ditched those and brought back the black eyes.
The dot eyes looked familiar to me for some reason. Then I realized, the videogame, Batman: Vengeance (excellent game, in my opinion), uses them. Incredibly menacing seeing them as a child.
Tbh I think its fair to say that the redisgn probably worked best in the sketches than in the animation. Seeing the ink drawings vs the final product actually makes me like it more than I already do. For me I prefer the redesign over the OG due to it being almost a perfect foil to Batman’s, ultimately its the final design that really sticks out as the best. I’d also say the more blank face he has in the redesign actually allows him to go off model more, and it looks more natural, than it was in the original. Its a very comic esc design and as long as the base concept of angular and less finer details, the more they can dive into the uncanny valley without it looking weird like the previous design would
A hot take about the 3rd design; its TOO detailed in the face. I think something similar to the fan edits @7:56 would've better matched the overall Bruce Timm art style.
I've never in my life seen the batman shows from the 90s (my first animated show about batman I ever watched was Brave and the bold, and it was my favourite show for a while actually, despite me not really liking it now that I'm older) but I still watch your channel
@@SerumLakeI can't really recall ever feeling confused watching your videos, but I am someone who never gets references anyways, so I'm very used to sort of just enjoying things even if I don't get a lot of jokes or don't understand some references 😂
The first is vibrant due to his lips. I like this as it gives a light to the character. The 2nd design is very different as it feels like a more darker Freakazoid. The writing was very good though. The 3rd design seems to be the one that stuck. It makes him darker while giving him the lips back. His eyes are more human but with more mascara. Designs aside it would be best if character design were to stay consistent or more time be put into adding details. 3D software seems to fix this issue.
Return of the Joker's design is easily my favourite. The reveal with him coming out of the shadows making us think it would have been the old redesign was also perfect.
Great video. Honestly, you took the words out of my mouth as far as my thoughts on the New Adventures Joker design go, as well as the evolution of the character's look over the course of the DCAU. I remember some of the people who worked on the DCAU expressing regret over his New Adventures look, saying that it looked good on paper but when animated, it just didn't work. I too noticed how in "World's Finest", Joker was a lot more expressive, even with this oversimplified design, than he was in New Adventures. It was far from great, but "World's Finest" is easily the best use of that much-maligned design. Though honestly, I think the New Adventures overall was the low point in the DCAU in terms of artistic quality, where the creators took all the wrong lessons from Superman The Animated series and made many characters look too simplistic (like Catwoman) and/or cartoony (like Arnold Wesker and the Mad Hatter). I can only imagine that if there was no Bat-Embargo, many of these characters would also have had their looks tweaked in future appearances, just like the Joker.
My biggest problems with Joker's redesign don't include his eyes but how they removed the color from two of the character's most defining features: He no longer has his bright red lips (or any lips at all), and the green coloring is all but gone from his hair.
Honestly I think jokers 3rd design while not the most Iconic, holds the delicate balance of the two designs before it, making JL/Static Joker the best design.
Suffice to say, the DCAU Riddler lost his touch and bravado ever since the events of "Riddler's Reform". Still sucks that Vol. 2 got cancelled with a bunch of loose ends still around. Hope it gets revived after the Elseworlds tales of The Adventures Continue are finally done.
I think a few other characters would have benefited from merging their BTAS designs with their TNBA ones in order to create the best design for those characters like they did with Joker. Mad Hatter for example, I prefer his short stature and green attire in TNBA but I'm not a fan of the white hair and the way they drew his face because he looked way older as opposed to his BTAS design. Killer Croc doesn't look great with either design and both look a bit bland on their own which is why I think he would look better with an in-between design like the one done by Dave Fraciosa. Bane also doesn't look great in either BTAS or TNBA. In TNBA he has a better outfit (minus the spikes) but in BTAS he has a better mask although it's still inferior to the the one he has in the comics which covered his entire face.
@@SerumLake By the way did you read my other comment about Joker's design? I wrote that before the video dropped and it's funny how many same things we said.
This is the way pretty much all 90s cartoons went. For the sake of easier animation and production, drawings were simplified. That means less detail, usually less realism and it can be passed off as more stylised but usually it's just less expensive and time consuming.
Batman the Animated Series was made with Black paper rather than the industry standard white paper. This is what gave it the dark vibes most cartoons shy away from.
I believe that Joker's TNBA redesign was a combo of cross-animation studio consistency and wanting the Joker's face to look like a grinning skull. Sadly, it didn't work; he was the Warner Brother (or uncle) that Yakko, Wakko, and Dot don't talk about. (Jakko...?)
Gonna have to disagree on the fan re-working to make New Adventures Joker look like the original Animated Joker. It looks wonderful to me when they change him to look more like he used to ^_^
It's a very classic Joker look. TNBA design looks off because it lacks the full colour scheme which is Green hair, white skin, red lips and purple suit (maybe some other colours in the clothing).
I mean, the dot eyes in the artwork isn't his eyes being black with white pupils, it's his eyes reflecting a bit of the light while being completely surrounded in shadow, that's what makes them look so sinister. But this was completely lost in TNBA, I never would've guessed that this was what they were going for. When I first saw Timm's sketches with the dot eyes look, I was like "Oh, so that's what the idea was!". And it might be a hot take, but I don't really like the Justice League/Return of the Joker design. Red eyes seem like a bit of an overkill and his head just seems so... small.
TNBA Joker would be better if he had his red lips. Red lips are essential for any Joker.. I think TNBA Joker is what the Joker should look like in the dark/bad lighting.. n him looking like that 24/7 takes away of the creepy/evilness he conveys in that kinda lighting..
I love the TNBA joker. Someone’s gotta say it. I do like the ROTJ/Justice League one better. But I’d take TNBA over the original BTAS. That example from Mad Love…well, it’d look awful in most episodes of BTAS. Bruce Timm could make that design work in comics/storyboards because he’s a brilliant artist who could make any design work.
Great video essays! I have to say, the NBA Joker redesign has been extremely influential on me as an artist and was a big fan of the "dot eyes", but I think that I generally prefer simpler, super streamlined designs for characters as a personal preference. I really liked Bruce Timm's description from the Batman Animated art book that this version of Joker was supposed to resemble "a grinning skull", which I think fits the Joker really well. I was a little sad to find out my affinity for this version of Joker was a bit of a hot take.
I think they totally nailed his look in Return of The Joker. He's very obviously The Joker we all know, but darker, creepier, and yes, even crazier. I don't think they'd allow him to look that creepy in the actual series, but since the movie was supposed to be PG-13, they finally allowed them to do what they more than likely wanted in the first place.
4:32 "they went too far with being simplistic" YES, THIS. he almost doesn't fit in with the other characters, too. he's too STYLIZED with everything whooshy and pointy. just looks bizarre. and why is he the only one without lips? i just think they could have done the dead eyes better. it doesn't have that punchy effect like it was in the comic shots. he just looks weird, not maniacal. i think the design could have altered that. like, a little more detail. or not doing totally comic faces all the time which undermines it totally. he doesn't look unhinged in all these small moments, he looks like a joke.
The Joker and Jack Napier's design/animation in Mask of the Phantasm were perfect for all of the BTAS era. TNBA was all wrong. Specifically, the Return of the Joker design was second best. His skin was the right white and not an off-blue, his hair was secondary green and not tertiary blue-green, but the red eyes? You know, remember that TNBA started during the Schumacher Batman films. Bad decisions were common for Bats during those late 90's.
I wonder how much they were maybe drawing artistic inspiration from how the Joker looked when he shot and paralyzed Barbara Gordon in The Killing Joke, though still way less expressive and menacing with that animated series redesign.
I think the black eyes should have been used sparingly, for emphasis of strong moods, rather than the default. When you take away the little bit of humanity the Joker has he becomes a generic monster and far less interesting. That's why I hated how they did the villains in The Batman. The villains all became monstrous and inhuman. Joker became this hyena grinning, hunch-backed creature with jester-cap shaped hair, odd proportions and monkey-like movements which were at odds with his clownish face. He was too inhuman to really relate to and if you can't relate to him just a little bit he is a far less interesting villain.
To me, TNBA Joker looks too cartoony. Like you have the character the Joker and then you have the White Spy from Spy Vs Spy. It makes him hard to take seriously (joke not intended).
The lips. I think the 2nd design was missing the lips. The face was too monochromatic without them. You need the red lips to complete the "clown" look. Also, they contrast with the white face and give the crazy lunatic smile of the Joker that much needed "pop".
I will be honest, I'm much prefer his first redesign (black and white eyes, no red lips) more than his second redisign or original version. Dunno why, it just looks cleaner and nicer to eyes.
I’m a little skeptical of those blog drawings. One is clearly inspired by Hirschfeld and one by Krisfalusci… it seems like someone experimenting with other artists’ styles. Then suddenly there’s one with exactly the nose from BTAS? It does look like his line work, though.
He needs a more expressive eyes and face. Whenever he gets beaten up by Batman and they cut to him with the busted nose and lip with a tooth missing its something TNBA joker wouldn't be able to convey
I honestly don't hate the New Batman adventures design for the Joker it gave me a Spy vs Spy in my opinion there are far worse animated joker designs such as the injustice movies, lego Batmans , some of the kiddier Batman shows ,but by far the Worse is Batman Ninja not only was the voice absolutely terrible I don't even know if I'd say it as bad or Worse than the injustice movies bit it really is absolute garbage
It surprised me to learn the joker with no colored eyes was an upgrade I always thought that was the older version, which seemed perfectly fine, in one moment you have this great design and the next one you fix this little detail. Perfect But fixing something perfect? You had perfection but decided to add a minor detail turning your 10 into a 9
I too hated the 1st redesign as he look way too sharp and young looking! I'm fine with Joker return cos despite being a sequel, the artstyle was different! Same return to Justice League too as it felt like a nice transition between the two shows!
I hate the redesigns, I can't stand them. They ruined not only the Joker but Mr. Freeze, Penguin and Cat Women (the changes to her tick me off the most) the animation of the first three seasons was so much better
I get why they did it. From an animation standpoint it simplified things to keep the joker as consistent as possible. I'm not a fan, but i get the perspective
Woulda been dope if Joker had more WB 1950’s cartoon features to accentuate the fact he no longer identifies with normal anymore, almost as a way to provoke people to notice him, giving him an excuse to do what he does, *Even if he was going to do it anyway.* The Joke about Joker was always him to not be taken seriously until it was too late😂
I think an interesting compromise on the design would have been to have the deep black eyes with white pupils, but only in shadow. Like, when he wears his hat pulled down low enough to put a shadow over them, or when the setting frames him more darkly. Generally, you get the more expressive version from BTAS, but at certain times, for a dramatic affect, the eyes shift to that empty, inhuman look, making them stand out by the contrast from normal, which would sell the effect better, because you'd also have those be scenes where there are more dramatic shadows on his face.
An effect like that was used for several panels in “The Killing Joke”, where he would be in shadows and his eyes would have the beady effect. I think that may have been where Timm and crew got the initial inspiration.
I could see him tilting his head down and revealing his blank void of uncaring black hole eyes when he's trying to be intimidating and cruel or angry, but lighting up into that iconic yellow as he's spewing off jokes or is just generally happy. Could be a good way of judging his current emotion without compromising that big, toothy, ever-iconic smile.
Has those fnaf eyes
they actually do this really well in “make em laugh”
I was less upset about the change in joker’s eyes and more upset about the lack of red lips. Those red lips made him look so much more like a clown. Without it, he just looks like an albino.
Always thought that was weird too
no he doesn’t
I always thought TNBA Joker's look was more mime-like; which is pretty cool as an alt. version of him. 👍
he looks like they stopped trying to draw him part way through
@ SmileyRileyAsmr
Yes he does, stupid.
I don't understand why in the redesign they got rid of the lips.
Joker's red lips have been there from the start, getting rid of them is like removing Batman's ears, it just doesn't feel right.
Did drawing the lips cost that much money that they couldn;t afford it?
I can only guess that they didn't like the bright red lips, but went too far in the opposite direction with TNBA Joker. Fortunately Batman Beyond and Justice League's Joker got the lips back.
Why did they remove jonklers lips? Are they stupid?
Man
Man
Man
I think the Justice League/Batman Beyond/Static Shock looks were his best. Using Black around the eyes and having his lips black, but with a red highlight was really slick. Also, the brighter highlight on his hair too.
That's how I remember him and I 100% agree. This video just confirmed it. I think it gives just the right amount of detail to his face, which is perfect since The Joker is a VERY expressive character. I also think it makes him more serious looking, so the audience actually finds him menacing when he does something terrifying. I always remembered The Joker Returns and how scary and dark the entire plot was. If he had either of the prior two designs, that would have been a failure. He definitely needed a massive rework to match the tone of the grungier Neo Gotham aesthetic.
Definitely my favorite
Same!
same
I don't mind the redesign. I'm just glad the spirit is still there. Also I like how Joker becomes more murderous and abusive as the series went on
That's what makes him awesome.
ah, the power of loosening censors
Yeah I think the TNBA is a good design that just needed a few little tweaks to be perfect I've seen some recolors of the TNBA Joker that adds the red lips, tweaks the suit color, the eye color and hair color to use the colors from the Batman Beyond: Return of thd Joker/Justice League design and honestly I think it looks fucking amazing
I think what bothered me the most about his later designs is that they limited how colorful he was originally. I thought the added yellow, red and orange truly made him clown-like. Idk just the purple and green seem boring to look at.
Yeah, plus I think it worked better with the "insane clown" vibe. It helped him go from a big ol' goof to a menacing threat, based purely off his expressions. With a dark color palette, even when he's being goofy, there's still an element of threat to him.
Plus, there's barely any green left in his hair.
His design in the flashback of Batman Beyond Return of the Joker was the best. In BTAS his design looked amazing but his facial expressions sometimes looked awkward especially when he got angry. Of couse it varied depending on what studio was animating him but even when the better studios where animating him it never quite felt consistent. Sometimes his nose was longer, sometimes his chin was rounder, sometimes it was pointier, sometimes his cheekbones were more pronounced and so on. In TNBA it was almost a complete downgrade. It is known that Bruce Timm based that design on certain pannels of the Mad Love comic where Joker was stylized but that doesn't work when he always looks like that. The lack of red lips made him look more bland and the black eyes was a weird trend in the 90's that appeared quite frequently. The green of his hair barely seemed green and looked more like dark blue or black. The only changes that were harmless were Joker wearing a green shirt which is really just a wardrobe change that Joker is always known for. I do think that his ribbon big bow tie does look better than the smaller one he had which sometimes looked like it was a clip on. In the flashback of Batman Beyond Return of the Joker he looked amazing. The two previous designs were merged to create something that took all the good elements from both of them. He had red lips again but it was a much darker shade of red, his hair was distinctly green again, he was less skinny than he was in TNBA, he had a more pointy chin and facial features which helped make his face more expressive than it ever was before, his ribbon big bow tie was even adjusted a bit to look more detailed. It was perfect. In Justice League he looked almost the same as in Return of the Joker except that his colour palette was a bit of a darker blue/purple shade and he also had a bit of a hunchback. Suprisingly his Justice League design is the only design that gave his shirt an actual collar. Before that he never had one in the DCAU.
Holy tldr and justice league is the best
@@thegreatacolyt1277 same
The white dot eyes were used in the Killing Joke from 1988 in that iconic scene, that could have very much been the inspo
the newer design looks like Freakazoid. I always thought the Creeper also kind of looks like freakazoid too, but better. The Creeper is closer to what the 2nd Joker redesign should have looked like.
The main problem with the black-eyes design is that (apart from the excellent TMS / Ghibli work), it makes The Joker look _cute_ - something he should never be. One of the things that makes the character so scary - which the Burton film really got right - was the way his mouth is always frozen in a grin, whereas only his eyes betray his actual emotion. It's both mesmerizing and terrifying.
The Burton film even provides a horrifying explanation for it: Jack's face gets sliced after Batman deflects a bullet Jack shoots at him. Later, the mob surgeon tells him, by way of an excuse: _"You have to understand, Mr Napier... The nerves were completely severed."_
Of course, I'm of a very specific generation for whom Burton's Batman universe was an unprecedented revolution when it happened. And as wonderful as Mark Hamil's performance is, it's still part of a squeaky-voiced, Irish-lilting tradition that extends back to the camp antics of Cesar Romero. (Who was my first Joker, but not my best.)
The utter b@st@rd you really want to see Batman to go up against would never have made it past the _broadcast standards_ team for BTAS. He's the one who coldly declares: _"I am the world's first homicidal artist: I make art until somebody dies"_ Or who is able to sarcastically intone cod verse, to the strains of Stephen Foster's _Beautiful Dreamer:_
_I'm only laughing on the outside,_
_My smile is just skin-deep,_
_If you could see inside, I'm really crying;_
_Won't you join me for a weep?_
Bro looks like Baby from dragonball gt
What makes the joke scary is that he is a human! He’s not a super powerful monster. He is a guy you say the wrong thing to at a bar or truly regret cutting off in traffic. The original design is so wonder because it’s a person, but when that grin pops up like it did in Joker’s Favor then Joker goes from some random guy on the road to a person you just had the dumbest road rage of your life in
Depends on which animation studio was doing the episode. Thankfully Joker's Favor was done by one of the better ones, which I have no doubt was on purpose because it was a top tier episode.
I had no idea Japanese animators did some of these episodes. No wonder they aged so well and are better that current DC stuff.
I always just thought of TNBA Joker design as the "Animaniacs Joker"
He always looked more cute and silly than menacing
i always thought that TNBA design would fit well in freakazoid
I thought that he's belongs to Mickey Mouse cartoon 😂😂
That Joker looks like Baby from dragonball GT
Imagine if they went with what the 2012 tmnt did where the eyes change when they get serious and for this it’d be the joker has his normal eyes, but when he gets angry or manic his eyes go black
Exactly. I can't help but feel like his eyes being black ALL the time was overcompensation. The effect was always most striking when it was used specifically when his face had a menacing shadow cast on it. I feel like a sudden swap from his more "normal" eyes to the white dot ones really accentuates the whole "inhuman" aspect, like a true nature surfacing from under his normally goofy demeanor.
...and that is why I love the scene in RotJ where he speaks with the rest of Jokerz gang, at the table
Yeah, as imperfect as the original was (I'm literally just now noticing how weird some of those shots look) I still prefer the original. I like the more human eyes. Because he's not inhuman. Jack Nicholson was a great Joker because he was a HUMAN playing a crazy disfigured human character. Same with Heath Ledger (RIP). The Joker IS HUMAN but with a sociopathic/psychopathic personality. He's not a supernatural creature from Hell or outer space. The fact that he is human and he does the things he does is what makes him the scariest character even in Mask of The Phantasm with a literal ghost like vigilante made to look like the Grim Reaper himself. Joker is legit more terrifying BECAUSE of his physical imperfections and the amazing performance by Mark Hamill.
BTAS version remains my favorite, and you're right, Mask of the Phantasm Joker rocks hard, nothing screams Joker more than the scene you've put in this video.
I am so hyped for the 4K remaster of Mask of the Phantasm coming this year
When they showed the redesigns for the new animated series my only issue with the Joker was no lips. Having him with just white face kind of didn't work for me. I would have been fine with even black lips since they wanted him to be darker.
Honestly, the Beyond and Justice League Joker is his final form. It doesn't get better than how evil he looks drawn that way.
Definitely the lack of the big red lips is what ruined his first redesign. His big toothy red-lipped grin was easily his most defining feature. It was so striking against his pale face and the rest of his costume which generally used cooler colors like purple, and green. Without that grin, and with those black irises, he ended up just looking lifeless and drab, like one of those old-timey retro cartoons.
I actually do really like the new color scheme of purple and green. It is much more vibrant. I also prefer the bow tie. I was not a fan of the droopy one from btas
Yeah, the original colour scheme and tie were direct references to Jack Nicholson’s Joker.
That was the Joker's original color scheme in the comics.
@@roberthintz4017No it wasn't. His original colour scheme was just white and purple. That's the colours of his original attire from his first appearance.
@@The_Phantasm That's what I meant.
I do prefer the new bowtie, but I actually prefer the old color scheme for the most part. I like when Joker has orange or yellow as the secondary color in his suit à la The Killing Joke or Arkham Asylum whether for the undershirt or vest if he has one (I prefer when he does). Either that or just purple and white. I don’t mind when he has green on the suit, but I think when it’s absent it allows his hair to pop more and is a tad redundant when it’s present.
Another detail that nobody really talks about how Hamill basically adjusted the sound of his Joker voice to best fit each design. My favorite will always be Batman Beyond's. Definitely the most cool and menacing.
The Joker's final redesign has another trait the previous designs didn't have. Visible gums.
And this joker is on batman vengeance.
As a kid the joker redesign was the most striking change. I reasoned that the design must mean something thematically- that Joker's chemically-induced "condition" was getting progressively worse and making him appear less human. Either that, or he gave up on "trying" to look like a clown with his red lips and just embracing his increasingly more ghoulish natural look.
I hate what I call the "shark eyes" Joker redesign. My partner hates it because it de emphasizes the mouth/lips, which is such an iconic part of his design. I hate the shark eyes because they don't allow for a range of expressions. Like the shot in this video at 4:28 where he frowns -- shark eyes don't work at all for that. It just looks like Freakazoid. (So, exactly what you've said at the 5min mark! Yes, I am writing this comment as I watch the video.)
Your husband or wife is right the shark eyes looks stupid on Joker!
i mean, my biggest gripe with the tnba design is that joker's face is basically 2 colors, white and black, as the green is non-existant and there being no lips or yellow teeth
as opposed to the btas having 5 colors just within his face: white black green red yellow
i also think his suit looks really plain with barely any green and again featuring only 2 colors in total instead of 5
Wish we had more that was similar to the 2004 version
Wished we had more of btas joker
The 2004 design is the Batman beyond design
The batman design that one isn't that good
@@thegreatacolyt1277 you crazy that was the edge of joker we didn’t know existed that we needed him doing kung fu moves and having Locs was Hard fr
I don't know why but I really like gorilla joker
The scariest Joker for me was in Mask of the Phantasm.
The black eyes white pupil design did to Joker what it would do to a great white shark to have no teeth.
Interesting how going in to this video i was thinking “Joker’s original design was the definitive one for me, especially how he looked in that scene of Mask of the Phantasm were he’s laughing like a maniac” and the video ends in just that. Feels great when something so specific can be valued by someone else and how it leaves a lasting impression just the same.
The second iteration of the Joker looked too much like an albino Freakizoid.
3rd design is the best Joker
My take: I think the dot eyes would work better with the BTAS style. I love the idea of the menacing, inhuman look the eyes give. But the effect kind of goes away with the more cartoony, simplistic, less expressive style of the redesign. They would ironically be very menacing on the old design I think. As shown in that comic cover for Mad Love in the video at 1:59.
well i for one LOVED the second redesign. it made him a thousand times more menacing, and the lack of complexity in his face really makes his emotions kinda fun to look at. its also really easy to replicate and get right at different angles. maybe its because i dont really like the original design, but i loved how they changed it for TNBA.
AS much as I love the new Batman adventures, the villain redesgins were often a mess. Joker is not even the biggest offender, just look how the massacred Catwoman
Why? What's wrong with her?
@@rainbowtoyfunrandomess1982Probably the pale makeup, if not her ditching the blonde hair.
Either way, at least that got an explanation in Gotham Adventures issue 4.
@@rainbowtoyfunrandomess1982 Maybe her redesign being basically just a black silhouette with just a jawline that's (for some inexplicable reason) covered in white makeup, while also sporting cartoonishly large eye lenses and ears? Her original design wasn't super iconic but this one looks like a reject from the Teen Titans cartoon.
@@daliborjovanovic510 Really?
@@rainbowtoyfunrandomess1982 yeah just look on youtube and you can see both designs. and the 2nd version is terrible.
R.i.p. the actress who voiced Harley
Quinn.
I like the original design as he is more accurate to the comics especially with the lips are red as they’re supposed while the second design is exact opposite as he has no red lips, his hair looks more black than green and not to mention those black eyes and third one is a bit better than the second one.
Are you going to do a video on why they redesign the other villains like Scarecrow,Penguin, Mad Hatter, Clayface,Riddler, Poison Ivy and Killer Croc?
I already talked about Penguin and Scarecrow’s redesigns in their corresponding videos. The others may get a mention in other videos, but not a dedicated video of their own - there isn’t that much to say about those redesigns.
@@SerumLake right because if I did brought them on the Justice league and Batman Beyond I would give them redesigns like I make the Scarecrow look like a combination of Ezekiel Rage from Jonny Quest and the killer from Nightbreed, Penguin looking like his original design mix with the new one.
Killer Croc being Grey then Green kinda reminds me of the Hulk where in his comic he was grey due to a printing error as he was always meant to be green where the grey hulk became Joe Fixit and talks gangster.
I wonder how the mad hatter ended looking like a Santa elf or a British Leprechaun as he was originally tall in the first series but as tall as Batman but still
Baby Doll's redesign can also be interesting. Makes me think that she deliberately wanted to look a bit older during the TNBA era. Heck, there are even some scenes where she appears to be wearing a padded bra on her chest.
Still miss those blue eyes though, while I'm weirded out as to why Bruce Wayne suddenly got those. Good thing Justice League ditched those and brought back the black eyes.
0:09 the redesign joker 🃏 is similar to the animaniacs.
The dot eyes looked familiar to me for some reason. Then I realized, the videogame, Batman: Vengeance (excellent game, in my opinion), uses them. Incredibly menacing seeing them as a child.
Him looking like that due to money problems in TNBA makes the most sense since the next time we see him, he looks more like his classic self.
Tbh I think its fair to say that the redisgn probably worked best in the sketches than in the animation. Seeing the ink drawings vs the final product actually makes me like it more than I already do. For me I prefer the redesign over the OG due to it being almost a perfect foil to Batman’s, ultimately its the final design that really sticks out as the best.
I’d also say the more blank face he has in the redesign actually allows him to go off model more, and it looks more natural, than it was in the original. Its a very comic esc design and as long as the base concept of angular and less finer details, the more they can dive into the uncanny valley without it looking weird like the previous design would
A hot take about the 3rd design; its TOO detailed in the face. I think something similar to the fan edits @7:56 would've better matched the overall Bruce Timm art style.
I've never in my life seen the batman shows from the 90s (my first animated show about batman I ever watched was Brave and the bold, and it was my favourite show for a while actually, despite me not really liking it now that I'm older) but I still watch your channel
I'm glad to have you here! I tend to make deep-cut references, assuming everyone knows what I'm talking about. Does that not put you off?
@@SerumLakeI can't really recall ever feeling confused watching your videos, but I am someone who never gets references anyways, so I'm very used to sort of just enjoying things even if I don't get a lot of jokes or don't understand some references 😂
@@nonamesorry7135Go watch a few of the Best Of BTAS episodes recommended by this channel. You're in for a treat! :)
The first is vibrant due to his lips. I like this as it gives a light to the character.
The 2nd design is very different as it feels like a more darker Freakazoid. The writing was very good though.
The 3rd design seems to be the one that stuck. It makes him darker while giving him the lips back. His eyes are more human but with more mascara.
Designs aside it would be best if character design were to stay consistent or more time be put into adding details.
3D software seems to fix this issue.
Return of the Joker's design is easily my favourite. The reveal with him coming out of the shadows making us think it would have been the old redesign was also perfect.
Great video. Honestly, you took the words out of my mouth as far as my thoughts on the New Adventures Joker design go, as well as the evolution of the character's look over the course of the DCAU. I remember some of the people who worked on the DCAU expressing regret over his New Adventures look, saying that it looked good on paper but when animated, it just didn't work. I too noticed how in "World's Finest", Joker was a lot more expressive, even with this oversimplified design, than he was in New Adventures. It was far from great, but "World's Finest" is easily the best use of that much-maligned design. Though honestly, I think the New Adventures overall was the low point in the DCAU in terms of artistic quality, where the creators took all the wrong lessons from Superman The Animated series and made many characters look too simplistic (like Catwoman) and/or cartoony (like Arnold Wesker and the Mad Hatter). I can only imagine that if there was no Bat-Embargo, many of these characters would also have had their looks tweaked in future appearances, just like the Joker.
My biggest problems with Joker's redesign don't include his eyes but how they removed the color from two of the character's most defining features: He no longer has his bright red lips (or any lips at all), and the green coloring is all but gone from his hair.
Like how on the thumbnail btas
Joker is not happy seeing his new look
While the one on the right is excited.😂
I like to think that they were actually three different jokers, and Batman just never noticed
You nailed it in this video. And yeah, Joker will never get better than that version of Batman mask of the phantasm...
Personally i like the JLU desgin best, it has the best aspects of both previous degins.
This is just a matter of opinion really... i personally think the 3rd design is better than the previous two.
To be brutally honest, I did not like the first re-design they did to Joker. He just looks...Weird.
First one is a good baseline, second one is on the wrong side of cartoony and the third one (to me) is the best. It has a good menacing feel to it.
Honestly I think jokers 3rd design while not the most Iconic, holds the delicate balance of the two designs before it, making JL/Static Joker the best design.
The ROTJ/JLU look is the best DCAU joker design
My favorite design was the one they used in Batman beyond return of the joker and justice league
Great video! Totally makes sense they would simplify designs for quality purposes, I loved the first Riddler design but the 2nd... Terrible
I agree about The Riddler, glad he got a better redesign in Batman Adventures volume 2!
@@SerumLakeI mean I'm okay with most of The Joker's redesigns because they look cool. But I don't think I'm a fan of his design in The Batman(2004)
I have never gotten over how utterly bizarre that design was. At least we could tell who the New Batman Adventures design was.
Suffice to say, the DCAU Riddler lost his touch and bravado ever since the events of "Riddler's Reform".
Still sucks that Vol. 2 got cancelled with a bunch of loose ends still around. Hope it gets revived after the Elseworlds tales of The Adventures Continue are finally done.
I think a few other characters would have benefited from merging their BTAS designs with their TNBA ones in order to create the best design for those characters like they did with Joker. Mad Hatter for example, I prefer his short stature and green attire in TNBA but I'm not a fan of the white hair and the way they drew his face because he looked way older as opposed to his BTAS design. Killer Croc doesn't look great with either design and both look a bit bland on their own which is why I think he would look better with an in-between design like the one done by Dave Fraciosa. Bane also doesn't look great in either BTAS or TNBA. In TNBA he has a better outfit (minus the spikes) but in BTAS he has a better mask although it's still inferior to the the one he has in the comics which covered his entire face.
I've come to the opinion that the Mad Hatter must've been wearing stilts, or padding in his shoes to make himself taller. That really makes me laugh.
@@SerumLake Okay but how did his arms also become shorter?
@@The_Phantasm The same way the Penguin swapped his flippers for fingers?
@@SerumLake With Penguin it's speculated to be plastic surgery. Not complaining because I prefer the normal hands as opposed to the flippers.
@@SerumLake By the way did you read my other comment about Joker's design? I wrote that before the video dropped and it's funny how many same things we said.
This is the way pretty much all 90s cartoons went. For the sake of easier animation and production, drawings were simplified.
That means less detail, usually less realism and it can be passed off as more stylised but usually it's just less expensive and time consuming.
Batman the Animated Series was made with Black paper rather than the industry standard white paper. This is what gave it the dark vibes most cartoons shy away from.
I believe that Joker's TNBA redesign was a combo of cross-animation studio consistency and wanting the Joker's face to look like a grinning skull. Sadly, it didn't work; he was the Warner Brother (or uncle) that Yakko, Wakko, and Dot don't talk about. (Jakko...?)
Gonna have to disagree on the fan re-working to make New Adventures Joker look like the original Animated Joker. It looks wonderful to me when they change him to look more like he used to ^_^
Joker has a edgy but cool design in BTAS and Batman Beyond I remember being kind of scared of the Season 1 Joker when I was a kid lol.
It's a very classic Joker look.
TNBA design looks off because it lacks the full colour scheme which is Green hair, white skin, red lips and purple suit (maybe some other colours in the clothing).
I got into Batman from beyond the new animated series. So i that how i fought Joker look like . But im fine with both looks
I mean, the dot eyes in the artwork isn't his eyes being black with white pupils, it's his eyes reflecting a bit of the light while being completely surrounded in shadow, that's what makes them look so sinister. But this was completely lost in TNBA, I never would've guessed that this was what they were going for. When I first saw Timm's sketches with the dot eyes look, I was like "Oh, so that's what the idea was!".
And it might be a hot take, but I don't really like the Justice League/Return of the Joker design. Red eyes seem like a bit of an overkill and his head just seems so... small.
TNBA Joker would be better if he had his red lips. Red lips are essential for any Joker.. I think TNBA Joker is what the Joker should look like in the dark/bad lighting.. n him looking like that 24/7 takes away of the creepy/evilness he conveys in that kinda lighting..
When I see the joker redesign, it reminds me of spy vs. spy the cartoon characters.
I love the TNBA joker. Someone’s gotta say it.
I do like the ROTJ/Justice League one better. But I’d take TNBA over the original BTAS.
That example from Mad Love…well, it’d look awful in most episodes of BTAS. Bruce Timm could make that design work in comics/storyboards because he’s a brilliant artist who could make any design work.
They did the same with killer croc in the arkham games
Great video essays! I have to say, the NBA Joker redesign has been extremely influential on me as an artist and was a big fan of the "dot eyes", but I think that I generally prefer simpler, super streamlined designs for characters as a personal preference. I really liked Bruce Timm's description from the Batman Animated art book that this version of Joker was supposed to resemble "a grinning skull", which I think fits the Joker really well. I was a little sad to find out my affinity for this version of Joker was a bit of a hot take.
1st Joker: Cartoony
2nd Joker: Animaniacs
3rd Joker: Absolute monster
I think they totally nailed his look in Return of The Joker. He's very obviously The Joker we all know, but darker, creepier, and yes, even crazier. I don't think they'd allow him to look that creepy in the actual series, but since the movie was supposed to be PG-13, they finally allowed them to do what they more than likely wanted in the first place.
4:32 "they went too far with being simplistic" YES, THIS. he almost doesn't fit in with the other characters, too. he's too STYLIZED with everything whooshy and pointy. just looks bizarre. and why is he the only one without lips? i just think they could have done the dead eyes better. it doesn't have that punchy effect like it was in the comic shots. he just looks weird, not maniacal. i think the design could have altered that. like, a little more detail. or not doing totally comic faces all the time which undermines it totally. he doesn't look unhinged in all these small moments, he looks like a joke.
The Joker and Jack Napier's design/animation in Mask of the Phantasm were perfect for all of the BTAS era. TNBA was all wrong. Specifically, the Return of the Joker design was second best. His skin was the right white and not an off-blue, his hair was secondary green and not tertiary blue-green, but the red eyes? You know, remember that TNBA started during the Schumacher Batman films. Bad decisions were common for Bats during those late 90's.
I wonder how much they were maybe drawing artistic inspiration from how the Joker looked when he shot and paralyzed Barbara Gordon in The Killing Joke, though still way less expressive and menacing with that animated series redesign.
I think the black eyes should have been used sparingly, for emphasis of strong moods, rather than the default. When you take away the little bit of humanity the Joker has he becomes a generic monster and far less interesting.
That's why I hated how they did the villains in The Batman. The villains all became monstrous and inhuman. Joker became this hyena grinning, hunch-backed creature with jester-cap shaped hair, odd proportions and monkey-like movements which were at odds with his clownish face. He was too inhuman to really relate to and if you can't relate to him just a little bit he is a far less interesting villain.
2:51 i hate some of this joker. like...... the lips are ridiculous red, and why are his TEETH yellow??? it feels lazy and ugh.
To me, TNBA Joker looks too cartoony. Like you have the character the Joker and then you have the White Spy from Spy Vs Spy. It makes him hard to take seriously (joke not intended).
The lips. I think the 2nd design was missing the lips. The face was too monochromatic without them. You need the red lips to complete the "clown" look. Also, they contrast with the white face and give the crazy lunatic smile of the Joker that much needed "pop".
The only redesign that looked good in the final season of BTAS was the Scarecrow.
And Batgirl, and Batman himself
I will be honest, I'm much prefer his first redesign (black and white eyes, no red lips) more than his second redisign or original version.
Dunno why, it just looks cleaner and nicer to eyes.
8:03 Meh, I disagree, I think the fan made version does solid job bringing the BTAS colors into the TNBA design.
I’m a little skeptical of those blog drawings. One is clearly inspired by Hirschfeld and one by Krisfalusci… it seems like someone experimenting with other artists’ styles. Then suddenly there’s one with exactly the nose from BTAS? It does look like his line work, though.
He needs a more expressive eyes and face. Whenever he gets beaten up by Batman and they cut to him with the busted nose and lip with a tooth missing its something TNBA joker wouldn't be able to convey
I honestly don't hate the New Batman adventures design for the Joker it gave me a Spy vs Spy in my opinion there are far worse animated joker designs such as the injustice movies, lego Batmans , some of the kiddier Batman shows ,but by far the Worse is Batman Ninja not only was the voice absolutely terrible I don't even know if I'd say it as bad or Worse than the injustice movies bit it really is absolute garbage
It surprised me to learn the joker with no colored eyes was an upgrade
I always thought that was the older version, which seemed perfectly fine, in one moment you have this great design and the next one you fix this little detail. Perfect
But fixing something perfect? You had perfection but decided to add a minor detail turning your 10 into a 9
It still amazes me what an impact these shows had.
I too hated the 1st redesign as he look way too sharp and young looking! I'm fine with Joker return cos despite being a sequel, the artstyle was different! Same return to Justice League too as it felt like a nice transition between the two shows!
I hate the redesigns, I can't stand them. They ruined not only the Joker but Mr. Freeze, Penguin and Cat Women (the changes to her tick me off the most) the animation of the first three seasons was so much better
I get why they did it. From an animation standpoint it simplified things to keep the joker as consistent as possible. I'm not a fan, but i get the perspective
TNBA looks like the Freakazoid cartoon WB was doing around that time.
I don’t think I’d have a problem with the NBA Joker design if he still had the red lips lol
I wish I had edited in the image of TNBA Joker with the red lips. I can't say that I liked it that much.
Season 3 ruined all the designs joker was perfect and so was Batman and even penguin idk why they changed it horrible just horrible they did that
“He is the joker and it will never get better than that.”
100% true. How could they see this and say “we need to change it”.
Imo Jokers redesign in TNBA was better than the original design.Fight me.
Guessing they thought oh the
Original joker is toooooo scary for kids
Mess well toned him down.
Well, however you like or don't like the joker redesign, at least they kept Mark as the VA.
Woulda been dope if Joker had more WB 1950’s cartoon features to accentuate the fact he no longer identifies with normal anymore, almost as a way to provoke people to notice him, giving him an excuse to do what he does, *Even if he was going to do it anyway.*
The Joke about Joker was always him to not be taken seriously until it was too late😂
I'll never understand why Joker decided to get lip removal surgery for his redesign.
I really like this design, I can see why some people don't like it but I think it's pretty good
The first design is classic, the second looks like Freakazoid, and the third is P E A K.
Might just be me, but its hard for me to tell how acom fucked up the joker's design