I like how at the end of the episode Janet says she's still not entirely convinced that Batman is good for Gotham and she's going to work hard to turn Gotham into a place that doesn't need Batman,and Batman says "me too"
I mean, to be honest, that's actually the ideal in real life. That the law serves the people and prevents their lives from getting ruined as much as possible instead of leaving it to a bunch of citizens. DC superheroes aren't even civil servants. They are vigilantes who break the law because the law is either ineffective which is a shame to the government and law enforcement or let them down which is an even greater shame.
Joker's Favor is another example of the One Bad Day thing. The guy there has a run-in with the Joker, and then years later gets roped into one of his schemes where he nearly dies. And while he does crack, he doesn't become a supervillain; he torments the Joker with his greatest fear, being killed by some rando without ever managing to kill Batman. But this was just a ploy to get the Joker to leave him and his family alone; the bomb was a fake, and it's made obvious that he knew that. After all is said and done, the guy just goes back home to his family, putting the whole thing behind him.
I really hope Charlie stays unscathed years after the ep's events. Would be a shame if he nearly loses his wife on the Imperium invasion, a child of his gets maimed in the Thanagarian occupation, and an Apokoliptian hovertank crashes on his home.
I love it when the "one bad day" schtick Joker throws out is disproven by Batman. "Maybe there isn't any need to crawl under a rock with all the other slimey things when trouble hits... Maybe it was just you, all the time." "What were you trying to prove? That deep down, everyone's as ugly as you? You're alone!"
Or the times where the "one bad day" is treated like a punchline. Lex's origin of hating Superman comes to mind when Clark saves Lex from an accident HE caused, and it results in Lex going bald and swearing vengeance. Makes it clear that Lex's ego was always at fault for the things he does, and sooner or later SOMEONE was going to bruise it.
Hell, the very comic that had that quote is literally all about Joker trying to break Gordon with said "bad day" just for him to fail. Even ignoring the subtext entirely on Joker's and Batman's duality and just taking the story at full face value Joker is STILL blatantly proven wrong.
@@roble8943 One might interpret this as being proof that a "One Bad Day" cannot be created artificially. Joker tried to break Gordon by constructing what he thought would be Gordon's ultimate Bad Day, and in the Dark Knight, where the Joker tries to get ships full of people to blow each other up. So, someone's "Bad Day" cannot be deliberately made. Meaning, you can't drive someone crazy with One Bad Day, just for the sake of driving them crazy. Sure, your Bad Day can be caused by other people, but those people cannot be trying to drive you crazy. Take Clayface and the Riddler, for instance. They were arguably driven over the edge by the actions of others, but the people who broke them weren't _trying_ to break them. The guys who broke Matt were actually trying to kill him, and the guy who broke Edward just saw him as another hapless puppet to use up and throw away. Now, with all that being said: Joker's "One Bad Day" theory is _still_ inherently flawed, because it assumes that people are constantly teetering on the verge of insanity, to the point where (As Heath Ledger's Joker famously said), "All it takes is one little push." But most people are mentally stable; those like Jim Gordon, for instance, are much less likely to fall apart in response to One Bad Day. Sure, in Jim's case, he was clearly distraught and in shock upon seeing the things the Joker had done to him and Barbara, but at the end of the day, he was mentally stable enough to endure the torture, and _insisted_ that Joker be brought in "by the book." Like Serum Lake pointed out, the villains didn't have "One Bad Day", they had a great many Bad Days, and this is what ultimately drove them to become what they are. Mental breakdowns don't happen overnight, they're the result of a long, protracted struggle. Even in the Joker's case, in the way he described his origins during "The Killing Joke", he was already on the brink of financial ruin, and constantly being berated by everyone; the only person who _didn't_ constantly trash-talk him was his girlfriend. So, his "One Bad Day" was less of a sudden shock, and more of a final middle finger. And then there's people like Scarecrow and the BTAS Joker, whose "One Bad Day" was basically just an excuse for them to do the things they'd always wanted to do.
@@GPS_DS He could easily start a private security/detective agency and go after the villians through legal means, yet he dresses like a bat and shapes his gadgets to match. He doesn't kill but hands out concussive trauma left and right, while evading authorities. He is just as mad as them but not as awful.
@@ouroboricscribe3201 He already hires more police and builds mental institutions and things like that. The reason Batman exists is because Gotham is such a horrible place that even great cops and detectives aren’t enough.
I really hate how even to this day we get stories that use the "Batman or x superhero, is the one that created their super villains" as a serious talking point, when the episode that made it popular went out of it's way to show that this could not be more wrong. These guy were always messed up and were always gonna hurt people even if Batman was not in the picture
and its such a faulty premise when its made clear Gotham was already mired in crime before batman donned his cape, case in point the murder of his parents. Joker was gangbanging with a mafia family and many of the other villains too were entrenched for a long time in their activities or bad habits.
Average superhero creates their own villain factioid is actually a statistical error. Tony "supervillains georg" stark, who lives in a building and creates 5 supervillain per day is an outlier adn shouldn't be counted
Trial is such a great episode. It perfectly shows how flawed the whole "one bad day" mindset is, and how nearly all of Batman's villains would rather blame Batman then accept that they chose to become the villains they are.
The only one who has an excuse is Killer Croc, since that guy was outcasted at a young age due to his appearance, with the people who he thinks love him constantly betraying him. Even when the guy tries to get a better life or gets a bit of happiness, it's cruelly taken away.
Well that's the bit that makes the animated batman so great. It shows multiple villains try to get back up, only to be shoved down again. It continues their bad life. and shows that under the menace and brutal retaliation, batman cares for them. That he does understand their bad lives and is willing to try and help them find a path out. It's tragic that so few actually seem to succeed on walking that new path... though I've often wondered, how many of those thugs and petty thieves he stopped changed course? How many did he stop from taking that step from tough guy to murderer? From stealing for survival to stealing as a way of life? We see bits of it but more would have been good.
Yup. One bad day made Batman change the world. His rouges gallery were already killers and violent psychopaths who blamed the convenient scapegoat - Batman.
In retrospect, letting Napier rob the Ace Chemical Plant would have saved countless lives and prevented billions in property damage. It's not like Gangster Jack would have mutated a bunch of fish or gone around spraying poison on people. He would have likely died in prison or double crossed by another criminal.
Remember, Gotham was a cesspit long before Batman came along, and to the victims and their families, it doesn't matter if the murderer was wearing clown paint
@@BM-wh5qk If he became like that so easy, then he was really disturbed long before falling on the chemical plant. It's not like Batman can see the future, how in the world can you guess that a guy like him will turn into such a monster only cause his skin was bleached? Sooner or later Joker would have appeared, Batman it's just a excuse to have something to live for before accepting that his existence it's meaningless without him "without Batman, the crime has no punchline"
@@AncientBeast65 I still love seeing that scene adapted. I also love how the effective angel and devil on Batman's shoulder were voiced by Conroy and Hamill respectively.
Scarecrow's really got some friggin nerve accusing Bman of ruining his life. So many versions of Crane have some bullying backstory but honestly, BTAS Crane seems more like a spoiled brat throwing a temper tantrum someone stood up to him for the first time in his life. In a show loaded with asshole victims, Dr. Long's a good person. Yeah he's a jerk, but he still tries to make the right decisions to get rid of this abuser and stands his ground when Scarecrow tries to steal from the university. He never submits to Scarecrow's terrorism out of fear, until he's given enough fear toxin to make him pass out. So of course this man became a target for this overgrown bully-who-never-grew-out-of-it. For once being the meanest scariest person in the room didn't get him what he wanted so he doubled down.
I love Scarecrow’s backstory in this show, because it’s so beautifully evil. There’s no “I lived my life in fear because of X, Y, Z, circumstances.” It’s just, “I’ve always thought scaring people was cool, so I did that, until I got fired. Revenge time!”
Someday people will realize Joker Is a ever evolving agent of Chaos who doesn't stick with one personality idea or backstory for very long because he's a comic book character and not a real person so the writers change it whenever they want. It turns out these people are also not trained psychologists
To be fair for the Joker the trial was always a sick joke, he never intended for the "Batman created us" thesis to be taken seriously anyway. It's very in character for him, and making him the judge instead of, say, Two Face, is genius writing.
@@aSipOfHemlocktea Joker canonically changes his backstory whenever someone makes him talk about it. At least on the DCAU, where Batman confronts Harley about it.
...There's a quote that works here. " A hero is no braver then an ordinary man, yet he is braver five miniutes longer." Everyone will have their "one bad day". Unfortunately many people will have several. But how you react and respond is entirely your own choice. For some they cannot cope. For most, they quietly dust themselves off and go forward until they can cry in quiet solitude. But a rare few? They find that they have five minutes to spare.
I liked one comic (or was it a show) that had joked about Batman being a lightening rod for villains. And then another person replied "Sure... But have you seen what happens to a building struck by lightening without a lightening rod?"
Red Hood from Batman: The Brave & The Bold is a testament to this. He's the Earth-3 counterpart to the Joker. He went through the exact same tragedies Joker claimed he did, and Owlman and his flunkies, but he *REFUSED* to break. he turned his grief and sorrow to resolve. He makes sure no one has to suffer like he did.
The irony of his nemeses saying that the Batman caused them to engage in criminality in the manner they did is that it effectively gives him more power over their lives than they would care to admit (or that he actually has). They're also (unintentionally?) admitting through blaming him that at least on a subconscious level, they know that what they're doing is wrong but refuse to admit it. On a related note, I think this partially explains why relatively minor characters like Kite Man are rising rapidly in popularity. As mediocre as he is, he doesn't seem to harbor any bitterness or resentment toward anyone else nor does he blame them for adopting his "kite-themed" persona. It's a creation entirely his own, based on his own life experiences and he would never cede that to anyone.
This is why I call bullshit on the "One Bad Day" nonsense. You have a choice on HOW you respond to it. Side note, in my eyes? If the villians are Bruce/batman at his absolute worst? The the various members of the batfamily are him at his absolute best. Though I am surprised lock up didn't have a part in this.
Yes, the events of "Trial" are set before "Lock-Up". One wonders if the events of the ep are why the man who will become the titular villain became the security chief.
I think it's because Lock Up wouldn't really pick Batman to attack, I mean yeah a part of it, but he picks the entire left wing. Also, why would he go to the court where he is in the same room with all of his victims? It's kinda funny seeing Lock Up sitting next to Scarecrow and Harely Quinn like if he never tortured them from the beginning. Also bringing him in the court, he had a bad day when he was fired as a warden due to Batman holding a hearing for the inmates of Gotham, but he was always this bad guy, Lock Up was made because the Inmates spoke, so Batman didn't make him, he did it to himself like everyone else.
I like that most pieces of bat media that addresses the one bad day argument ends up disproving it, just like the original comic. Even looking at the Dark Knight, which mostly gets sited as being influenced by the long Halloween, but the Jokers plan is primarily a much larger scale of his from the killing joke, as he wants to show that when people are pushed to their limits they are deep down as depraved as he is. Luckily this got disproved in the boat scene. I’m also curious what forms the villains would take in the absence of Batman. If they’d be costumed characters with gimicks at all or just people in street cloths making the world a worse place.
This is something that I've wondered about with a lot of superhero media. Often, it seems like a superhero's city doesn't have any supervillains until _after_ the superhero shows up. This is easily the case with much of Batman's rogues gallery, as well as Superman's, and (if I may go outside the DC universe) Darkwing Duck's.
@@katt-the-pig yea maybe Batman emboldened them to take up costumed/gimmick identities but most would have fallen to the dark side making the world miserable regardless.
@@katt-the-pig One thing I appreciate about "Static Shock" is that there is an explicit reason why most of the villains show up when or shortly after Static does. It even explains why most of the metahumans are criminals instead of heroes.
I like how in the Dark Knight the Joker says he hates "schemers", but in another scene he's reading a piece of paper before the action starts. Too few people realize that the Joker is supposed to be full of shit.
Mr. Freeze was notably absent during the trial (provided he was imprisoned at Arkham at the time). His perspective would’ve been interesting as he very well knows Batman had nothing to do with his condition and his wife’s prolonged catatonic state.
I think Freeze had been moved to Stonegate because in Deep Freeze his cell has a view of the ocean, and, if I remember rightly, Arkham is atop a massive hill without a view of the sea. Either way, if this takes place after Deep Freeze then he’s long gone
@michaelandreipalon359 Which makes sense. Stonegate's security is a bit more secure and better funded than Arkham's and a better fit for him. Not just for his extremely dangerous abilities, but also the special needs to keep Victor Freis alive.
@@rosswebster7877tbh even if he was there I doubt he'd blame Batman. Mr. Freeze has been motivated by so much rage and heartbreak towards one specific man, there's no real room for him to be as deluded about who caused his tragedy as everyone else.
I love Janet Van Dorn’s closing speech flipping her opinion that it’s not Batman who makes the criminals, but criminals that create men like him. It’s so well performed and it almost makes me wish this had been the theatrical film to convey that message. If there’s one “one bad day” I think actually works, it’s the creation of the Martha Wayne Joker in Flashpoint Paradox. Having her only appear in the creation flashback is genius. We don’t need her to appear or affect the main story or characters; just knowing she stands opposed to the Thomas Wayne Batman and the death of their son was what drove them apart is perfect.
Notwithstanding Bruce parents death, the fact that Valestra and the Mafia threaten Andrea father into leaving meant that Bruce and Andrea never got together. Bruce really wanted to settle down but with Andrea gone, all his left is to becoming Batman. Really proving Janet point that the criminals create Batman.
Another difference between Batman and Arkham inmates "one bad day" is how they deal with the feeling guilt. While Joker and the other rogues just try to deflect their guilt on others (in this case Batman), Bruce always blames himself for his parent's death and other losses he suffered (ex: Harvey becoming Two Face, Tim Drake's trauma at the hands of the Joker). He never tries to find scapegoats for his problems. He takes full responsabily for the tragedies, despite the fact some of them were not his fault nor things he could have prevented.
Learning to differentiate what is and isn’t your fault is an important mindset to develop. Sometimes it’s that simple, sometimes it isn’t. Own what’s yours, but don’t be afraid to stand up for yourself when people start piling up things on your instead of owning up their part.
One of the best part of this episode was Janet Van Dorne's speech and character development. Like it would have been so easy to just portray her as a strawman, but in the beginning she is shown making some understandable points about how there is an unmistakable link between the Batman and his rogue's gallery and how his involvement does sometime muddle up the legal proceedings. She's not wrong that there are connections, her perception is just shallow. Then during the trial she doesn't only change her mind because she's in danger, she considers the individual cases rationally and then in her own words admits that she's realized she was wrong.
@@michaelandreipalon359 Yeah the only other time I can remember her appearing was in the start of Batgirl begins when she's refusing commissioner Gordon Bail and arguing with Barbara. They could have done so much more with her.
One bad day is all it takes to change a life forever. How it changes is up to you. These criminals of Gotham have "one bad day" as a tipping point and an excuse while men like Bruce Wayne and Dick Grayson use it to inspire them to be the best men they can. The Penguin (aka Cobblepot), for example, uses his childhood of being bullied and isolated as an excuse to rationalize his criminal acts and scummy behavior and personality. While Bruce Wayne witnessing the death of his parents inspired him to fight corruption not only as the caped crusader but also fighting corrupt politicians and businessmen and helping the impoverished of gotham. So in a way you're wrong. Terrible people use it as an excuse, but you're also right that it's a terrible one. Terrible people exist not because of hardship but instead because they lash out because of it.
@@harrisontownsend910 Comic books characters and their excuses aren't real, and using it as a way to excuse people choosing to be awful and do awful things is silly. please learn to separate story devices from reality
I feel like this whole video could've been played at Batman's actual trial in said episode by Janet as compelling proof of Batman's innocence, and no one (not even Joker) could argue against it. Great Work!😉
There's a song called "Slow Fad". Most villains don't become villains overnight. It starts as a series of bad choices that slowly spiral out of control. As the song says "People never crumble in a day."
The detail the villains are responsible for their own creation can be found in the "villain reform" episodes. In every one of them the rogues have a chance to go straight and start a new life for them, but always come back to crime either bc they couldn't let go of their life of crime (ex: Riddler, Ivy and Catwoman) or bc of their inability to handle their problems in a healthy way (ex: Penguin was manipulated by Veronica, so his response was to try to kill her).
@@zemox2534 Arnold was able to redeem himself bc, unlike other rogues, he never wanted to be criminal and continue his family busniess and was able to stand up against Scarface, who I always felt he represents not just Wesker's trauma but also, probably, the pressure the poor guy suffered from the rest of his family, telling him that he's "too soft" and he must be tough and agressive in order to be a "real man". This is why Arnold is so obedient to Scarface, despite the abuses, bc he feels needs to be what others like his family expect from him instead of what he wants to be.
It's funny that you bring up The Killing Joke. Yes, it's the origin for the 'one bad day' thing, but it also rips it apart as an excuse. You mentioned Jim Gordon, and how Joker failing to drive him mad, but I think more potent is Batman's response. Batman chases Joker into a fun house, and Joker mocks him over an intercom, trying to detail his nihilism, about how the world is mad so madness and cruelty is the only real choice. He goes into the 'one bad day' thing, points out that Batman must have had one, otherwise he wouldn't be Batman. And then we get the moment, the moment where I feel that Alan Moore was outright saying that Joker's nihilism (and all those who'd use it as an excuse) is complete garbage. "I see the funny side. Why can't you? Why aren't you laughing?" (Batman crashes through the mirror-wall) "Because I've heard it before. And it wasn't funny the first time."
@@FrozenJack2007 That's not new. People have been holding up The Dark Knight Returns as the ultimate Batman story for years. Yeah, it was a tone-setter, but this is the best of Batman? An old man trying to recapture his glory days because he feels like he doesn't have any other choice? Two friends forced by bad circumstance to fight when they should be working together for a greater good? Yeah, seems kind of depressing.
@@zinogre6225 It's as bad as the people who say Batman's a rich guy beating up poor people when no matter a criminal's wealth or status he'll go after them.
There is one BTAS villain who does actually fall under the One Bad Day category, The Clock King. We see him have the worst day of his life, and at the end of it we see him literally go insane. Now granted it has nothing whatsoever to do with Batman. But he still first the formula, and may be the only BTAS villain who does.
I suppose technically he has more than one bad day, just one particularly bad day. At the start of the episode he says that he has to be in court to submit his appeal against the $20m fine issued to his company. So whatever his company did to get that fine would’ve been the first bad day. The second one would be being issued with the fine, and the third would be the day we saw in the episode.
@@SerumLake can the fine being leveled against his company count as a bad day? Companies get issued fines all the time, and it’s not like it was leveled against him personally, he was just assigned to the case, and as a lawyer it’s most likely routine for him. Now the company does indeed blame him for them having to pay the fine, but it could be argued that’s just his job. I don’t think the two days count cause he had little of nothing to do with whatever the company did to be issued the fine in the first place (as far as we know) and you can’t hold an employee responsible for what the company he worked at does. He just got extremely unlucky, and had one bad day, that turned him into a criminal.
I think you’re misremembering. He was the head of the company being fined, and the fine led to him being financially ruined. I still don’t quite know why his lawyer couldn’t present their appeal without him being present (surely the lawyer would’ve seen the evidence beforehand?) but Fugit was financially ruined by losing that appeal.
Either way, I wonder if he victimized the judge and those park kids before the main events of the ep. But hey, at least his "One Bad Day" showed us that humanity has started reaching its technological peak, what with his near-successful use of time manipulation devices later on.
The Clock King was an obsessive that was always likely to go off the deep end if he suffered some kind of chaos in his life. Which was inevitable. Because you can't account for everything.
The thing is, i do believe it only takes one Bad day to make someone snap, to change their life forever, but that doesn't necessarily mean They've changed forever. One moment can affect everything, one choice made in haste or without even thinking, but to fundamentally change You after the adrenaline or whatever has worn off? If anything BTAS proves that it's a constant uphill struggle, and we can fall off and do damage to ourselves and others at any time, but so too can we start again, even if only for ourselves.
More saying this ahead of time, just for fun. Is it just me or when seeing the angry glares from the rogues and Batman sat unfazed is a lot like that cat at the dinner table, with the two angry women, meme.
I'm glad you brought up Ivy's unused back story. I think it could've made for a very interesting, tragic episode in a similar vein to Heart Of Ice. I like the notion she grew up a lonely rich girl with only plants for company. They could've easily worked this in, as well as Jason Woodrue and the negligent parents from Seattle bits in the comics. I've mentioned this before, but I think they still could've alluded to it in Pretty Poison by way of the nightstand in her greenhouse. Just show a row of framed photos and news paper clippings she passes by when heading for the privacy screen. They tell us her back story, or at least the gist, without Pam ever once uttering a word about it. It also gives new context to her running towards the boudoir when everything gets set ablaze. She goes back for the photos.
Sounds great, but even in this show, implications of a woman being violated in a 90s cartoon was not going to be happening... The whole series would have been cancelled for that. Ask Moral Orel about that
Perhaps putting it in a tie-in comic should be smart to do nowadays. Would make quite a killing, an anthology of unseen DCAU tales like this, Hawkgirl's first years on Earth, and even minor plots like how Maggie Sawyer and Toby Raines came to be, and how they fared during the JL+JLU era.
9:30 - 9:47 I like the idea that Harley was actually smart and decently well educated as a psychiatrist but fell for the Joker and his emotional manipulation anyway. It subverts the idea only stupid people are easily taken advantage of by an abuser. It shows that anyone can be susceptible to being manipulated in this psychological/emotional way under the right circumstances, and that no one, regardless of intelligence, is immune to it.
I never knew that there was a story of Harley using her feminine wiles to get her way. While she does that at times in BTAS, I'm definitely glad they stuck with her being educated, but manipulated. It makes for a better story and a caution to anyone who thinks that a degree can protect the heart.
15:45 I love how you actually point out here that the idea of "Batman punching poor people" is entirely irrelevant in this version of the character. Part of the reason why Bruce Wayne is not recognized for his goodness is that he's rather humble for a rich guy in the show. He gives to the poor, it's a thankless task but he does it regardless cause he is that sweet. Batman in this show is a good guy and he wants what's best for most people he meets. The Joker was an exception. Nowadays Batman's relationship with characters is so dark it's hard to imagine him ever smiling at some of his murderous rouges.
to be fair coming from a PTSD, depression and anxiety background myself i learned that people hold up differently what makes one person crack wouldnt happen to another. The theory from joker one bad day does really happen to some but of course not for all.
I would be interested in seeing someone with psychological expertise expand and weigh in, rather than just people giving personal or moral opinions. (I’m not criticizing you. I actually think your perspective is interesting in a sea of “free Will rules” comments.)
It is always interesting to see if any of the bat-villains find a way to process their demons and problems in a constructive and positive way like Batman does, rather than just lashing out at the rest of the world. The comics do show Poison Ivy coming close to this, as well as Catwoman.
Also, Joker freely admits just how inaccurate of a narrator he is in the Killing Joke during his "One Bad Day" monologue to Bats: "You had a bad day, once, didn't you? I know, I can tell. I had a bad day once too. Sometimes I remember it one way, sometimes ... another way. If I have to have a past, I prefer it to be multiple choice." And it's especially telling how Bats responds to the end of that monologue: "The point is, WHY AREN"T YOU LAUGHING?!" "Because I heard it before! And it wasn't funny then, either." Bats acknowledged the point, while showing just how really wrong it was.
I always found it strange how in the Batman mythos, it’s often stated how Batman created his villains, or at the very least provoked them into going up against him with their own taste for theatrics. Alfred in The Dark Knight said it best: “You spat in the faces of Gotham’s worst criminals. Didn’t you think there might be some casualties? Things were always going to get worse before they got better.” Even The Batman film implies this, with how the crime rate only got worse after Bruce became Batman. The Riddler existed because of Batman. The thing I find strange is how in Batman: The Animated Series, one of the most popular and influential forms of Batman media, explicitly states that this isn’t the case. These criminals would have existed and become who they are now with or without Batman. Doesn’t anyone else find that odd? Perhaps I’m misunderstanding the whole point of the existence of Batman’s rogue gallery?
They would’ve been criminals anyway due to their weak fortitude, they often blame Batman for their existence, but the only thing Batman did to them was encourage the costume and gimmicky motifs.
@@FoxsDumbSeriesMaker that's not the point that The Batman was trying to make. Him being nothing but a rage filled, violent embodiment of vengeance only inspired more violence. Batman needed to be more. He needed to be a symbol of hope.
In these latter DC comics and movies, there's a push to make all our beloved heroes into bad guys. Batman is accused of inflating the crime rate simply for existing, despite the fact that without him, Gotham would plunge into darkness rapidly. Superman is suddenly being used as a bad guy because he had the audacity to kill The Joker. Ya know, The Joker - the guy who murdered hundreds of people for sheer laughs. Apparently, he's not allowed to be taken down by violence because that'll make all the good guys evil.
Thank you for pointing out Batman's efforts to help people outside of cape and cowl! ...LOT of people miss that...even people put in charge of Batman projects!
On the subject of Batman's villains being responsible for his creation and not the other way around, it's almost literally true when it comes to DCAU Joker. In Mask of the Phantasm, Bruce was just about ready to give up on crime fighting and go live a normal life with Andrei Beaumont but then Joker or Jack as was his alias at the time, murdered her father which caused her to break off her engagement to Bruce and become the Phantasm which in turn re motivated him to start his crusade and become Batman. So in a roundabout way, The Joker created Batman before Batman supposedly created the Joker. They do something similar in the 89 movie with having pre Joker Jack be Bruce's parent's killer, but here it's handled with way more subtlety and makes more sense.
I like the idea that The Riddler is actually smartest of all Bats rogue gallery and didn't just leave because he knew the plan would fail, I like the idea that deep down he also knows Bats isn't at fault for his creation and probably not for others as well. He willingly chose the path of The Riddler and he's fine with it, and holds no grudge for Bats and recognises his innocence
I appreciate how you respect Poison Ivy for being a different kind of villain who refuses to b like the others. They could revoke her doctorate and she wouldn't care, much less start a fire in their vault.
The fact that you were able to make a 17 minute long video discussing only one specific aspect of the villains' depth and motivations in this series is such a testament to the quality of this show's writing.
Out every episode of BTAS, "Trial" to me is the episode that would have benefited the most from being a two-parter. While "Trial" was a fun episode and the overall premise I think is amazing, its concept was way too good to be compressed in a single 22-minute episode. It needed much more. After Batman is captured I always felt the episode goes by a little too fast and some things feel rushed. Ventriloquist and Scarface only get a few lines but were never on the stand and neither was Killer Croc. However the thing that always bothered me the most was that Scarecrow and Riddler are in the episode and don't speak a single word. Imagine Two-Face as the prosecutor making a cutting closing statement where he fiercely, blames Batman for his failure in protecting him which lead to the fateful incident that made him Two-Face. And about the Ace Chemicals incident that lead to the birth of the Joker? It barely gets acknowledged and it's only used for comedic purposes with Harley. And lastly the character Janet Van Dorn is one that I always forget exists whenever I rewatch the episode and I'm never particularly interested in her character. If they wanted to make this episode have more of an impact they should have had her be more reoccurring after that episode. As it is, it's a fun episode but it's one that I always thought never totally lived up to its potential and is more comedic than it is impactful.
It was more than just comic relief or did you forget the closing speech from Van Dorn? With that said, the episode would have been better if Dent was the prosecutor and defense for Batman. It would have made the episode more compelling if Dent was forced to defend and prosecute Batman and really delve into his mind.
It was supposed to be a movie too, until Mask of the Phantasm became it. But I have to admit, they still nailed the pacing and the plot threads regardless. Not even X-Men and Spider-Man eps of the same runtime feel as well cooked in comparison. Edit: But yes, I share your thoughts mostly on Van Dorn. Would have loved to see her return in a surprisingly important role even in Justice League+Unlimited.
This ep in a nutshell: insane, costumed criminals attempt to pin the sources of their problems on another crazy, costumed, violent man and fail to gaslight him instead of taking accountability
Some dude on a batsuit saves people from being assaulted, kidnapped or killed by psychopats, monsters, addicts and extremists, also helps poor people and give support to broken families damaged by some of these villains: "Oh no! He's a crazy and violent man!" It's not like you can stop the Joker using words and hugs when he has a bomb or a gun.
I actually prefer Joker's origin of being an evil, nasty person long before meeting Batman and not the 'desperate, innocent man to crazy, lunatic monster' path. Goes to show that his character has been long gone from saving, and his mission in life was to be chaos itself. His life never had that "one bad day" because its been bad since day one. He's been a monster long before the rouges gallery had even come across Batman. That just makes him more terrifying.
I really like how as much as they despise Batman, the jury finds him "innocent" because to find him guilty would be to deny their own agency in their lives.
In relation to Superman TAS, I think Liverwire also debunk the "one bad day" thing. Leslie Willis was pretty much a mean, rude, disrespectful and arrogant person even before she accidently gained her powers. Her electrical abilities only encouraged her to become even more bad than she was before. The worst part was that she still had the audacity to blame Superman for what happened to her (which wasn't the case), even when she enjoyed using her newfound powers to do wrong. (I'm aware that she later saved Superman in a comic issue and regretted her actions. She even managed to get rid of her powers, only to regain them at the end. Also, she later appeared in a Justice League episode in which she caused mayhem and destruction with other villains, so I don't think the comic is still really canon).
I love this episode. I am an absolute sucker for stories where the main hero are having their actions and the possible consequences of them be picked apart by other characters 😊
4:28 considering how BTAS Joker basically shares Jack Nicholson's Joker's origins from Batman 1989, so much so he was even given the name Jack Napier, what Nicholson's Joker was called before the vat. so i always went with that BTAS Joker's origins was a 1 to 1 to 1989 Joker's origins
Too bad that Mr Freeze,Clayface and Penguin weren’t in the Trail since they were definitely wronged by the world but only that we didn’t get to see Penguin’s origin but funny that you mention this since there is a One Bad Day on the villains.
I think it's because none of those villains specifically blame Batman for their lives. Penguin definitely doesn't, does he ever blame anybody? Freeze blames Boyle and himself, and of course Clayface blames Dagget. Oh, and Clayface was presumed dead at this point I think? I don't know if he had come back yet.
A beautiful twist of a flawed but widely accepted idea. I don’t know the exact chemical composition of the serum your lake is composed of, but I wish more people took it if this is the result.
This really is a testament to how important the setting itself is to how you create character backstories. Batman doesn't resemble his villains because he created them, but rather because in a sense Gotham itself created them all. The sheer number of villains who are either screwed over because they refuse to partake in crime or ruthless business practices is a testament to how corrupt Gotham is moreso than any one individual running around, and what a lot of adaptations forget is that fact. What's interesting to me is that it really highlights that adaptations which fail forget that it's the city that Batman is fighting against, not the criminals.
3:47 Maybe the inhibitions kept him better than the Terrible Trio and that's how Batman says at least there's the insanity excuse. Or maybe Batman didn't know Jack worked for Vallestra back then.
It should be easy to see the flaw in Joker's "One Bad Day" logic because Batman's existence already disproves it. Bruce already had his one bad day, when his parents died, and instead of turning him into a monster, it turned him into Batman.
Honestly...if I was in that trial I would've pulled a medea goes to jail and be like "Everybody got a life and what you do with that life it's up to you" But in another case if anyone else was in that tiral and if they have the guts to it, they would've turned that whole tiral into a call out section
This one is my favorite so far. Really encapsulates the similarities and differences between batman and his rogues gallery. Really awesome stuff. All it took was one bad day for Bruce to do something amazing with his life.
Honestly I think one thing I like about BTAS is that the villains are almost always partially responsible for their actions. This isn't just emphasized in this episode, their cop-out redemption episodes show this too. Frequently it's some kinda big character flaw that makes their redemptions failures. The show does have the compassion to portray them as at least mentally ill people who need more than just your daily beating from Bman (except Joker) and shows they are somewhat tragic, but they still make their choices in the end and have agency. Which is probably part of why Arnold Wesker is one of my favorite characters on this show. He makes a conscious choice to try and leave his old life behind and commits to it. He gets a lot of help, but he's the one to shoot Scarface, giving him so much agency in his redemption and that just hammers home the point of the show so much better and makes him a much stronger character than you'd think.
very well presented and enjoyable video, 10/10. I like the attention to detail and nuance, without losing sight of your point. it probably helps this series was a big part of my childhood, but honestly, even entirely seperate from that, i think i would have been glad to have clicked on this video, it was genuinely interesting to think about.
Without a doubt, Trial is my absolutely favorite episode in the show! The script, animation, characters, everything works and is amazing to see, truly a mini movie just like the creators called the series The only flaw is Riddler's sudden disappearance in the final act, he could've had some lines or just be there with the other rouges in the final confrontation (but I like the idea of him escaping) I just really love the concept of the rougues getting together and take over Arkham
The best counter I've seen is a fanmade comic of Joker trying to pull some shit on Spider Man, only for Spidey to reveal all the crap he's been through. When Batman arrives, Joker is saying that maybe he should overthink his life, given how much worse Spider Man had it without breaking.
Nothing I've seen indicates the "One Bad Day" thing is anything more than a catchy line the Joker said once that everyone fixates on because "oh evil and good aren't really that different" is an idea people love for having the appearance of intellectualism without needing any thought behind it. Everyone will go through the worst day of their life, and for millions around the world, that day is going to be darker than anything a comic or cartoon writer can put to paper; the overwhelming, vast majority of them remain compassionate people trying to live their lives to the best of their ability.
A note about the Joker - in Mad Love, when Harley has Batman hanging, he starts laughing, and mentions Joker had her pegged for minion duty the moment she got to Arkham. Batman goes "What was that line? THe only time dad smiled was at the ice show, I was 7." and Harley, crying, goes "He said it was the circus". Joker has been doing the unreliable thing for decades.
I always found the argument of Batman creating his rogues gallery to be unfair. Bruce never made any of his villains. He has tried to help them on several occasions, but they usually reject his help. Let's look at Baby doll 4 example. She was born with a condition that prevented her from physically ageing. All her life, she has been rejected and looked down upon, and when her show was cancelled, she snapped and became a criminal. However, she did not turn to crime because of 1 bad day. She turned to crime because she had a bad life, and losing her career was the last straw. T
A bad day does not cause someone to go mad. It can be a tipping point. In either direction to reaffirm and go forward with the outlook of not wanting others to feel bad like you did. or hating it to the point you'd want to see everyone and everything burn so no bad day can potentially happen ever.
On top of the info from the writer’s Bible about Ivy, I had a Batman the animated series coloring book growing up that had a picture of giant plants saving her unconscious body (still in lab worker uniform) from a greenhouse/lab fire. I swear.
BTAS: exists BTAS supplemental media: Hey guys, have you heard of this magical thing called *_grape?!?_* Like geez who wrote all that stuff, Mark Millar?
The irony is that Joker is even disproven not too long after in the Killing Joke. Gordon comes out of the torture still sane. Pretty roughed up but still sane and telling Batman to book Joker.
A pity a lotta Spidey cartoons aren't embracing of the redemption rule. Looking at you, The Animated Series and how villains like Doctor Octopus don't get sympathy from Spidey anymore as time went on.
@@DeBean970 Which can be jarring to fans who prefer Kraven being a villain. I don't count Spectacular at most nowadays. Its fault for not having a proper endgame.
The lack of an OSHA regulatory body in Gotham is a major factor in creating at least some of the Rogues, especially Joker and Two Face. Regulations are written in blood.
I like how at the end of the episode Janet says she's still not entirely convinced that Batman is good for Gotham and she's going to work hard to turn Gotham into a place that doesn't need Batman,and Batman says "me too"
I mean, to be honest, that's actually the ideal in real life. That the law serves the people and prevents their lives from getting ruined as much as possible instead of leaving it to a bunch of citizens. DC superheroes aren't even civil servants. They are vigilantes who break the law because the law is either ineffective which is a shame to the government and law enforcement or let them down which is an even greater shame.
I mean, that’s Batman’s goal. A world that doesn’t need him. A world where another kid doesn’t become him.
Yep, that part's great. Wish Janet could have been in more episodes after that as a kind of replacement for Harvey Dent as one of Batman's allies.
Sadly the truth it Is we know it won't the be case@@JacksonVoet
@@JacksonVoet He thoroughly believes in the comics that he will never succeed but he tries anyway and I think that is powerful
Heroes use their bad day as an excuse to fix the world, villains use it as an excuse to break the world.
At the end of the day
We all have free will
111 👍
@@l0stndamned A perfect summary of a major difference between hero and villain.
Of course, there are some heroes ultimately justified in breaking the world to save it, and I admire them more because of such.
For heroes, I'd use the word "motivation" instead of "excuse"
Joker's Favor is another example of the One Bad Day thing. The guy there has a run-in with the Joker, and then years later gets roped into one of his schemes where he nearly dies. And while he does crack, he doesn't become a supervillain; he torments the Joker with his greatest fear, being killed by some rando without ever managing to kill Batman. But this was just a ploy to get the Joker to leave him and his family alone; the bomb was a fake, and it's made obvious that he knew that. After all is said and done, the guy just goes back home to his family, putting the whole thing behind him.
Charlie turned the Joker into a sobbing baby and made Batman laugh. Much respect to Charlie.
I think what humiliated Joker the most was that the guy managed to make Batman laugh.
One of my favorite episodes
I really hope Charlie stays unscathed years after the ep's events. Would be a shame if he nearly loses his wife on the Imperium invasion, a child of his gets maimed in the Thanagarian occupation, and an Apokoliptian hovertank crashes on his home.
even was looking toward his wifes meatloaf, having to do the jokers dirty work made him appreciate even the worst parts of his normal life
I love it when the "one bad day" schtick Joker throws out is disproven by Batman.
"Maybe there isn't any need to crawl under a rock with all the other slimey things when trouble hits... Maybe it was just you, all the time."
"What were you trying to prove? That deep down, everyone's as ugly as you? You're alone!"
Or the times where the "one bad day" is treated like a punchline.
Lex's origin of hating Superman comes to mind when Clark saves Lex from an accident HE caused, and it results in Lex going bald and swearing vengeance. Makes it clear that Lex's ego was always at fault for the things he does, and sooner or later SOMEONE was going to bruise it.
"Why aren't you laughing?!"
"Because I've heard it before. And it wasn't funny the first time."
I've grown to hate the one bad day quote over the years because of the edgelords who ignore that Joker was proven wrong and insist he's right.
Hell, the very comic that had that quote is literally all about Joker trying to break Gordon with said "bad day" just for him to fail.
Even ignoring the subtext entirely on Joker's and Batman's duality and just taking the story at full face value Joker is STILL blatantly proven wrong.
@@roble8943 One might interpret this as being proof that a "One Bad Day" cannot be created artificially. Joker tried to break Gordon by constructing what he thought would be Gordon's ultimate Bad Day, and in the Dark Knight, where the Joker tries to get ships full of people to blow each other up. So, someone's "Bad Day" cannot be deliberately made.
Meaning, you can't drive someone crazy with One Bad Day, just for the sake of driving them crazy. Sure, your Bad Day can be caused by other people, but those people cannot be trying to drive you crazy. Take Clayface and the Riddler, for instance. They were arguably driven over the edge by the actions of others, but the people who broke them weren't _trying_ to break them. The guys who broke Matt were actually trying to kill him, and the guy who broke Edward just saw him as another hapless puppet to use up and throw away.
Now, with all that being said: Joker's "One Bad Day" theory is _still_ inherently flawed, because it assumes that people are constantly teetering on the verge of insanity, to the point where (As Heath Ledger's Joker famously said), "All it takes is one little push." But most people are mentally stable; those like Jim Gordon, for instance, are much less likely to fall apart in response to One Bad Day. Sure, in Jim's case, he was clearly distraught and in shock upon seeing the things the Joker had done to him and Barbara, but at the end of the day, he was mentally stable enough to endure the torture, and _insisted_ that Joker be brought in "by the book."
Like Serum Lake pointed out, the villains didn't have "One Bad Day", they had a great many Bad Days, and this is what ultimately drove them to become what they are. Mental breakdowns don't happen overnight, they're the result of a long, protracted struggle. Even in the Joker's case, in the way he described his origins during "The Killing Joke", he was already on the brink of financial ruin, and constantly being berated by everyone; the only person who _didn't_ constantly trash-talk him was his girlfriend. So, his "One Bad Day" was less of a sudden shock, and more of a final middle finger.
And then there's people like Scarecrow and the BTAS Joker, whose "One Bad Day" was basically just an excuse for them to do the things they'd always wanted to do.
I mean, the true "one bad day" of Batman's rogue gallery was finding out there is someone just as mad as them that isn't just as awful.
Very true!
I don’t think Batman is as mad as them. He definitely has mental issues, but I wouldn’t call Batman mad, mostly just depressed.
@@GPS_DS I was just trying to make a nice phrase bro 😭😭😭😭😭😭
@@GPS_DS
He could easily start a private security/detective agency and go after the villians through legal means, yet he dresses like a bat and shapes his gadgets to match. He doesn't kill but hands out concussive trauma left and right, while evading authorities. He is just as mad as them but not as awful.
@@ouroboricscribe3201 He already hires more police and builds mental institutions and things like that. The reason Batman exists is because Gotham is such a horrible place that even great cops and detectives aren’t enough.
Peak batman is when the villains are sympathetic
But not justified
exactly. you can feel sympathy without thinking they're justified, which is something people seem to miss these days.
I really hate how even to this day we get stories that use the "Batman or x superhero, is the one that created their super villains" as a serious talking point, when the episode that made it popular went out of it's way to show that this could not be more wrong.
These guy were always messed up and were always gonna hurt people even if Batman was not in the picture
and its such a faulty premise when its made clear Gotham was already mired in crime before batman donned his cape, case in point the murder of his parents. Joker was gangbanging with a mafia family and many of the other villains too were entrenched for a long time in their activities or bad habits.
@@ORLY911 I mean, Gotham is in New Jersey canonically.
Many of them would likely do their bad deeds in hiding if it were not for Batman. Batman making them visible is probably the best thing for everyone.
Average superhero creates their own villain factioid is actually a statistical error.
Tony "supervillains georg" stark, who lives in a building and creates 5 supervillain per day is an outlier adn shouldn't be counted
Trial is such a great episode. It perfectly shows how flawed the whole "one bad day" mindset is, and how nearly all of Batman's villains would rather blame Batman then accept that they chose to become the villains they are.
The only one who has an excuse is Killer Croc, since that guy was outcasted at a young age due to his appearance, with the people who he thinks love him constantly betraying him. Even when the guy tries to get a better life or gets a bit of happiness, it's cruelly taken away.
Well that's the bit that makes the animated batman so great. It shows multiple villains try to get back up, only to be shoved down again. It continues their bad life. and shows that under the menace and brutal retaliation, batman cares for them. That he does understand their bad lives and is willing to try and help them find a path out. It's tragic that so few actually seem to succeed on walking that new path... though I've often wondered, how many of those thugs and petty thieves he stopped changed course? How many did he stop from taking that step from tough guy to murderer? From stealing for survival to stealing as a way of life? We see bits of it but more would have been good.
Yup. One bad day made Batman change the world. His rouges gallery were already killers and violent psychopaths who blamed the convenient scapegoat - Batman.
Pretty much. Without Batman, all that changes about them is the silly costumes.
Gotham (FOX)'s take on Batman is the same. The villains created him. The city created them all (other than a few like Jerome and Pyg).
13:53 I'm glad the episode proved the dumb "Batman creates his villains" belief some people have wrong.
In retrospect, letting Napier rob the Ace Chemical Plant would have saved countless lives and prevented billions in property damage. It's not like Gangster Jack would have mutated a bunch of fish or gone around spraying poison on people. He would have likely died in prison or double crossed by another criminal.
Remember, Gotham was a cesspit long before Batman came along, and to the victims and their families, it doesn't matter if the murderer was wearing clown paint
@@BM-wh5qk If he became like that so easy, then he was really disturbed long before falling on the chemical plant. It's not like Batman can see the future, how in the world can you guess that a guy like him will turn into such a monster only cause his skin was bleached? Sooner or later Joker would have appeared, Batman it's just a excuse to have something to live for before accepting that his existence it's meaningless without him "without Batman, the crime has no punchline"
Batman: Brave and the Bold prove this point. When the villains learnt that Joe Chill murdered Batman's parents, they turned into a murderous rage.
That show is full of surprises.
I mean, that would mean he created Batman, and to them, that’s a capital offense.
@@AncientBeast65 I still love seeing that scene adapted. I also love how the effective angel and devil on Batman's shoulder were voiced by Conroy and Hamill respectively.
That episode was EPIC. Even better when you're like, "met that voice, met that voice, met that voice"
Man, "Chill of the Night" was such an unusual episode for BnB. Best homage to TAS the team could've possibly done.
Scarecrow's really got some friggin nerve accusing Bman of ruining his life. So many versions of Crane have some bullying backstory but honestly, BTAS Crane seems more like a spoiled brat throwing a temper tantrum someone stood up to him for the first time in his life. In a show loaded with asshole victims, Dr. Long's a good person. Yeah he's a jerk, but he still tries to make the right decisions to get rid of this abuser and stands his ground when Scarecrow tries to steal from the university. He never submits to Scarecrow's terrorism out of fear, until he's given enough fear toxin to make him pass out. So of course this man became a target for this overgrown bully-who-never-grew-out-of-it. For once being the meanest scariest person in the room didn't get him what he wanted so he doubled down.
I love Scarecrow’s backstory in this show, because it’s so beautifully evil. There’s no “I lived my life in fear because of X, Y, Z, circumstances.” It’s just, “I’ve always thought scaring people was cool, so I did that, until I got fired. Revenge time!”
@@GPS_DS ''well well if it isnt the consecuences of my own actions but ill triple down on them'''
The villains who yell the loudest about Batman 'creating them' are just mad they got caught in the act. (Cough Hatter and Scarecrow Cough).
Obviously, Joker's philosophy on psychology is just as faulty and dubious as his fabricated back story.
Someday people will realize Joker Is a ever evolving agent of Chaos who doesn't stick with one personality idea or backstory for very long because he's a comic book character and not a real person so the writers change it whenever they want. It turns out these people are also not trained psychologists
To be fair for the Joker the trial was always a sick joke, he never intended for the "Batman created us" thesis to be taken seriously anyway. It's very in character for him, and making him the judge instead of, say, Two Face, is genius writing.
@@pastpatour
Well Harvey isn't a judge either.
@@curtisleblanc5897 He's a formerly successful prosecutor, he'd have a decent clue how it's supposed to work.
@@aSipOfHemlocktea Joker canonically changes his backstory whenever someone makes him talk about it.
At least on the DCAU, where Batman confronts Harley about it.
...There's a quote that works here. " A hero is no braver then an ordinary man, yet he is braver five miniutes longer."
Everyone will have their "one bad day". Unfortunately many people will have several. But how you react and respond is entirely your own choice. For some they cannot cope. For most, they quietly dust themselves off and go forward until they can cry in quiet solitude.
But a rare few? They find that they have five minutes to spare.
Ah, sounds like something an Alex Ross comic can do justice on.
I liked one comic (or was it a show) that had joked about Batman being a lightening rod for villains.
And then another person replied "Sure... But have you seen what happens to a building struck by lightening without a lightening rod?"
Majin Buu kills everyone?
Red Hood from Batman: The Brave & The Bold is a testament to this. He's the Earth-3 counterpart to the Joker.
He went through the exact same tragedies Joker claimed he did, and Owlman and his flunkies, but he *REFUSED* to break. he turned his grief and sorrow to resolve. He makes sure no one has to suffer like he did.
The irony of his nemeses saying that the Batman caused them to engage in criminality in the manner they did is that it effectively gives him more power over their lives than they would care to admit (or that he actually has). They're also (unintentionally?) admitting through blaming him that at least on a subconscious level, they know that what they're doing is wrong but refuse to admit it.
On a related note, I think this partially explains why relatively minor characters like Kite Man are rising rapidly in popularity. As mediocre as he is, he doesn't seem to harbor any bitterness or resentment toward anyone else nor does he blame them for adopting his "kite-themed" persona. It's a creation entirely his own, based on his own life experiences and he would never cede that to anyone.
This is why I call bullshit on the "One Bad Day" nonsense. You have a choice on HOW you respond to it. Side note, in my eyes? If the villians are Bruce/batman at his absolute worst? The the various members of the batfamily are him at his absolute best. Though I am surprised lock up didn't have a part in this.
@@iceluvndiva21 I think it was before Lock Up made his appearance.
Yes, the events of "Trial" are set before "Lock-Up". One wonders if the events of the ep are why the man who will become the titular villain became the security chief.
I think it's because Lock Up wouldn't really pick Batman to attack, I mean yeah a part of it, but he picks the entire left wing. Also, why would he go to the court where he is in the same room with all of his victims? It's kinda funny seeing Lock Up sitting next to Scarecrow and Harely Quinn like if he never tortured them from the beginning. Also bringing him in the court, he had a bad day when he was fired as a warden due to Batman holding a hearing for the inmates of Gotham, but he was always this bad guy, Lock Up was made because the Inmates spoke, so Batman didn't make him, he did it to himself like everyone else.
I agree because anyone can have a bad day or terrible life but responding is what matters.
Riddler rules,
Joker Drools!
- Edward Nygma.
Joker: That curssed leprechaun 😑
I like that most pieces of bat media that addresses the one bad day argument ends up disproving it, just like the original comic. Even looking at the Dark Knight, which mostly gets sited as being influenced by the long Halloween, but the Jokers plan is primarily a much larger scale of his from the killing joke, as he wants to show that when people are pushed to their limits they are deep down as depraved as he is. Luckily this got disproved in the boat scene. I’m also curious what forms the villains would take in the absence of Batman. If they’d be costumed characters with gimicks at all or just people in street cloths making the world a worse place.
This is something that I've wondered about with a lot of superhero media. Often, it seems like a superhero's city doesn't have any supervillains until _after_ the superhero shows up. This is easily the case with much of Batman's rogues gallery, as well as Superman's, and (if I may go outside the DC universe) Darkwing Duck's.
@@katt-the-pig yea maybe Batman emboldened them to take up costumed/gimmick identities but most would have fallen to the dark side making the world miserable regardless.
@@katt-the-pig One thing I appreciate about "Static Shock" is that there is an explicit reason why most of the villains show up when or shortly after Static does. It even explains why most of the metahumans are criminals instead of heroes.
I like how in the Dark Knight the Joker says he hates "schemers", but in another scene he's reading a piece of paper before the action starts. Too few people realize that the Joker is supposed to be full of shit.
@@CompuclesI also like how since most of Static's rogues are troubled kids they usually don't have the ambitions of your typical supervillain.
Mr. Freeze was notably absent during the trial (provided he was imprisoned at Arkham at the time). His perspective would’ve been interesting as he very well knows Batman had nothing to do with his condition and his wife’s prolonged catatonic state.
I think Freeze had been moved to Stonegate because in Deep Freeze his cell has a view of the ocean, and, if I remember rightly, Arkham is atop a massive hill without a view of the sea. Either way, if this takes place after Deep Freeze then he’s long gone
@@SerumLake Well that explains it then. Thanks and great video as always!
I think it's before "Deep Freeze" since B: TAS works better on production order, but yeah, he's in Stonegate.
@michaelandreipalon359 Which makes sense. Stonegate's security is a bit more secure and better funded than Arkham's and a better fit for him. Not just for his extremely dangerous abilities, but also the special needs to keep Victor Freis alive.
@@rosswebster7877tbh even if he was there I doubt he'd blame Batman. Mr. Freeze has been motivated by so much rage and heartbreak towards one specific man, there's no real room for him to be as deluded about who caused his tragedy as everyone else.
I love Janet Van Dorn’s closing speech flipping her opinion that it’s not Batman who makes the criminals, but criminals that create men like him. It’s so well performed and it almost makes me wish this had been the theatrical film to convey that message.
If there’s one “one bad day” I think actually works, it’s the creation of the Martha Wayne Joker in Flashpoint Paradox. Having her only appear in the creation flashback is genius. We don’t need her to appear or affect the main story or characters; just knowing she stands opposed to the Thomas Wayne Batman and the death of their son was what drove them apart is perfect.
Gotta love and hate Multiverse Theory for such alternate outcomes.
Notwithstanding Bruce parents death, the fact that Valestra and the Mafia threaten Andrea father into leaving meant that Bruce and Andrea never got together. Bruce really wanted to settle down but with Andrea gone, all his left is to becoming Batman. Really proving Janet point that the criminals create Batman.
Another difference between Batman and Arkham inmates "one bad day" is how they deal with the feeling guilt. While Joker and the other rogues just try to deflect their guilt on others (in this case Batman), Bruce always blames himself for his parent's death and other losses he suffered (ex: Harvey becoming Two Face, Tim Drake's trauma at the hands of the Joker). He never tries to find scapegoats for his problems. He takes full responsabily for the tragedies, despite the fact some of them were not his fault nor things he could have prevented.
Learning to differentiate what is and isn’t your fault is an important mindset to develop. Sometimes it’s that simple, sometimes it isn’t. Own what’s yours, but don’t be afraid to stand up for yourself when people start piling up things on your instead of owning up their part.
One of the best part of this episode was Janet Van Dorne's speech and character development. Like it would have been so easy to just portray her as a strawman, but in the beginning she is shown making some understandable points about how there is an unmistakable link between the Batman and his rogue's gallery and how his involvement does sometime muddle up the legal proceedings. She's not wrong that there are connections, her perception is just shallow. Then during the trial she doesn't only change her mind because she's in danger, she considers the individual cases rationally and then in her own words admits that she's realized she was wrong.
A shame she never gets used more afterwards. Would have liked to see her get some important role even in Justice League.
@@michaelandreipalon359 Yeah the only other time I can remember her appearing was in the start of Batgirl begins when she's refusing commissioner Gordon Bail and arguing with Barbara. They could have done so much more with her.
I genuinely hate that some people take the "one bad day" spew as an excuse to justify people being shitty/creepy in the real world.
Unfortunately it's not just one bad day
Can someone be tortured enough to become evil, insane and sadistic?
I believe so
One bad day is all it takes to change a life forever. How it changes is up to you.
These criminals of Gotham have "one bad day" as a tipping point and an excuse while men like Bruce Wayne and Dick Grayson use it to inspire them to be the best men they can.
The Penguin (aka Cobblepot), for example, uses his childhood of being bullied and isolated as an excuse to rationalize his criminal acts and scummy behavior and personality. While Bruce Wayne witnessing the death of his parents inspired him to fight corruption not only as the caped crusader but also fighting corrupt politicians and businessmen and helping the impoverished of gotham.
So in a way you're wrong. Terrible people use it as an excuse, but you're also right that it's a terrible one. Terrible people exist not because of hardship but instead because they lash out because of it.
@@harrisontownsend910
Can you torture someone into being evil? R*pe?
What if a kid is r*ped hundreds of times before he/she was eight?
@@harrisontownsend910 Comic Books aren't real and shouldn't be used to excuse people choosing to be bad.
@@harrisontownsend910 Comic books characters and their excuses aren't real, and using it as a way to excuse people choosing to be awful and do awful things is silly. please learn to separate story devices from reality
9:45 I personally would've preferred the idea that Harley was a brilliant psychiatrist as it adds to the tragedy of her fall to madness.
You're on point. Even non-DCAU comics have rendered the "sleeping with the professors" angle as non-existent.
Even the Harley Quinn series remembers this and makes it into an important plot point in a particular episode.
I feel like this whole video could've been played at Batman's actual trial in said episode by Janet as compelling proof of Batman's innocence, and no one (not even Joker) could argue against it.
Great Work!😉
thank you very much!
There's a song called "Slow Fad". Most villains don't become villains overnight. It starts as a series of bad choices that slowly spiral out of control. As the song says "People never crumble in a day."
The detail the villains are responsible for their own creation can be found in the "villain reform" episodes. In every one of them the rogues have a chance to go straight and start a new life for them, but always come back to crime either bc they couldn't let go of their life of crime (ex: Riddler, Ivy and Catwoman) or bc of their inability to handle their problems in a healthy way (ex: Penguin was manipulated by Veronica, so his response was to try to kill her).
What about Arnold? He was the only villain who successfully reformed but he almost relapsed because he was manipulated by his old gang.
@@zemox2534Well, there's Gotham Adventures issue 58, featuring Jack parenthesis The Creeper closed parenthesis.
@@zemox2534 Arnold was able to redeem himself bc, unlike other rogues, he never wanted to be criminal and continue his family busniess and was able to stand up against Scarface, who I always felt he represents not just Wesker's trauma but also, probably, the pressure the poor guy suffered from the rest of his family, telling him that he's "too soft" and he must be tough and agressive in order to be a "real man".
This is why Arnold is so obedient to Scarface, despite the abuses, bc he feels needs to be what others like his family expect from him instead of what he wants to be.
It's funny that you bring up The Killing Joke. Yes, it's the origin for the 'one bad day' thing, but it also rips it apart as an excuse. You mentioned Jim Gordon, and how Joker failing to drive him mad, but I think more potent is Batman's response. Batman chases Joker into a fun house, and Joker mocks him over an intercom, trying to detail his nihilism, about how the world is mad so madness and cruelty is the only real choice. He goes into the 'one bad day' thing, points out that Batman must have had one, otherwise he wouldn't be Batman.
And then we get the moment, the moment where I feel that Alan Moore was outright saying that Joker's nihilism (and all those who'd use it as an excuse) is complete garbage.
"I see the funny side. Why can't you? Why aren't you laughing?"
(Batman crashes through the mirror-wall)
"Because I've heard it before. And it wasn't funny the first time."
someone needs to tell dc comics this. they did a whole bunch of one bad day comics. felt like they missed the point of the killing joke.
@@FrozenJack2007 That's not new. People have been holding up The Dark Knight Returns as the ultimate Batman story for years. Yeah, it was a tone-setter, but this is the best of Batman? An old man trying to recapture his glory days because he feels like he doesn't have any other choice? Two friends forced by bad circumstance to fight when they should be working together for a greater good? Yeah, seems kind of depressing.
Trial is my favorite episode of BTAS because of it completely disproves that Batman is the one that created the villains.
It annoys me to no end when people go after Batman saying stuff like that. Like, they’ve disproved it so many times why do you still believe it? 😂
@@zinogre6225 It's as bad as the people who say Batman's a rich guy beating up poor people when no matter a criminal's wealth or status he'll go after them.
There is one BTAS villain who does actually fall under the One Bad Day category, The Clock King. We see him have the worst day of his life, and at the end of it we see him literally go insane. Now granted it has nothing whatsoever to do with Batman. But he still first the formula, and may be the only BTAS villain who does.
I suppose technically he has more than one bad day, just one particularly bad day. At the start of the episode he says that he has to be in court to submit his appeal against the $20m fine issued to his company. So whatever his company did to get that fine would’ve been the first bad day. The second one would be being issued with the fine, and the third would be the day we saw in the episode.
@@SerumLake can the fine being leveled against his company count as a bad day? Companies get issued fines all the time, and it’s not like it was leveled against him personally, he was just assigned to the case, and as a lawyer it’s most likely routine for him. Now the company does indeed blame him for them having to pay the fine, but it could be argued that’s just his job. I don’t think the two days count cause he had little of nothing to do with whatever the company did to be issued the fine in the first place (as far as we know) and you can’t hold an employee responsible for what the company he worked at does. He just got extremely unlucky, and had one bad day, that turned him into a criminal.
I think you’re misremembering. He was the head of the company being fined, and the fine led to him being financially ruined. I still don’t quite know why his lawyer couldn’t present their appeal without him being present (surely the lawyer would’ve seen the evidence beforehand?) but Fugit was financially ruined by losing that appeal.
Either way, I wonder if he victimized the judge and those park kids before the main events of the ep.
But hey, at least his "One Bad Day" showed us that humanity has started reaching its technological peak, what with his near-successful use of time manipulation devices later on.
The Clock King was an obsessive that was always likely to go off the deep end if he suffered some kind of chaos in his life. Which was inevitable. Because you can't account for everything.
The thing is, i do believe it only takes one Bad day to make someone snap, to change their life forever, but that doesn't necessarily mean They've changed forever.
One moment can affect everything, one choice made in haste or without even thinking, but to fundamentally change You after the adrenaline or whatever has worn off?
If anything BTAS proves that it's a constant uphill struggle, and we can fall off and do damage to ourselves and others at any time, but so too can we start again, even if only for ourselves.
More saying this ahead of time, just for fun. Is it just me or when seeing the angry glares from the rogues and Batman sat unfazed is a lot like that cat at the dinner table, with the two angry women, meme.
" I had a bad day too once."
- Batman
Fun fact: Janet was voiced by Stephanie Zimbalist, daughter of Efrem Zimbalist Jr., Alfred's voice actor.
I'm glad you brought up Ivy's unused back story. I think it could've made for a very interesting, tragic episode in a similar vein to Heart Of Ice. I like the notion she grew up a lonely rich girl with only plants for company. They could've easily worked this in, as well as Jason Woodrue and the negligent parents from Seattle bits in the comics. I've mentioned this before, but I think they still could've alluded to it in Pretty Poison by way of the nightstand in her greenhouse. Just show a row of framed photos and news paper clippings she passes by when heading for the privacy screen. They tell us her back story, or at least the gist, without Pam ever once uttering a word about it. It also gives new context to her running towards the boudoir when everything gets set ablaze. She goes back for the photos.
Sounds great, but even in this show, implications of a woman being violated in a 90s cartoon was not going to be happening... The whole series would have been cancelled for that.
Ask Moral Orel about that
Perhaps putting it in a tie-in comic should be smart to do nowadays. Would make quite a killing, an anthology of unseen DCAU tales like this, Hawkgirl's first years on Earth, and even minor plots like how Maggie Sawyer and Toby Raines came to be, and how they fared during the JL+JLU era.
9:30 - 9:47 I like the idea that Harley was actually smart and decently well educated as a psychiatrist but fell for the Joker and his emotional manipulation anyway. It subverts the idea only stupid people are easily taken advantage of by an abuser. It shows that anyone can be susceptible to being manipulated in this psychological/emotional way under the right circumstances, and that no one, regardless of intelligence, is immune to it.
I think that was the point. Harley was definitely no dummy, but she definitely was manipulated
I never knew that there was a story of Harley using her feminine wiles to get her way. While she does that at times in BTAS, I'm definitely glad they stuck with her being educated, but manipulated. It makes for a better story and a caution to anyone who thinks that a degree can protect the heart.
The perfect description of bat man he had a bad day too, and he can sympathise with the other's bad days. that gives him his compassion
15:45 I love how you actually point out here that the idea of "Batman punching poor people" is entirely irrelevant in this version of the character.
Part of the reason why Bruce Wayne is not recognized for his goodness is that he's rather humble for a rich guy in the show. He gives to the poor, it's a thankless task but he does it regardless cause he is that sweet. Batman in this show is a good guy and he wants what's best for most people he meets. The Joker was an exception.
Nowadays Batman's relationship with characters is so dark it's hard to imagine him ever smiling at some of his murderous rouges.
"We both looked into the abyss, but when it looked back at us, you blinked."
@11:10 I love how even Joker looks creeped out by Mad Hatter
to be fair coming from a PTSD, depression and anxiety background myself i learned that people hold up differently what makes one person crack wouldnt happen to another. The theory from joker one bad day does really happen to some but of course not for all.
I would be interested in seeing someone with psychological expertise expand and weigh in, rather than just people giving personal or moral opinions. (I’m not criticizing you. I actually think your perspective is interesting in a sea of “free Will rules” comments.)
@@SERPENTOFGOODDARKNESsomeone with expertise would still be giving a personal and moral opinion
villains: it's because of batman!
batman: lol no you
It is always interesting to see if any of the bat-villains find a way to process their demons and problems in a constructive and positive way like Batman does, rather than just lashing out at the rest of the world. The comics do show Poison Ivy coming close to this, as well as Catwoman.
Also, Joker freely admits just how inaccurate of a narrator he is in the Killing Joke during his "One Bad Day" monologue to Bats: "You had a bad day, once, didn't you? I know, I can tell. I had a bad day once too. Sometimes I remember it one way, sometimes ... another way. If I have to have a past, I prefer it to be multiple choice." And it's especially telling how Bats responds to the end of that monologue: "The point is, WHY AREN"T YOU LAUGHING?!" "Because I heard it before! And it wasn't funny then, either." Bats acknowledged the point, while showing just how really wrong it was.
That closing statement sent chills. Well said.
I always found it strange how in the Batman mythos, it’s often stated how Batman created his villains, or at the very least provoked them into going up against him with their own taste for theatrics. Alfred in The Dark Knight said it best: “You spat in the faces of Gotham’s worst criminals. Didn’t you think there might be some casualties? Things were always going to get worse before they got better.” Even The Batman film implies this, with how the crime rate only got worse after Bruce became Batman. The Riddler existed because of Batman.
The thing I find strange is how in Batman: The Animated Series, one of the most popular and influential forms of Batman media, explicitly states that this isn’t the case. These criminals would have existed and become who they are now with or without Batman. Doesn’t anyone else find that odd? Perhaps I’m misunderstanding the whole point of the existence of Batman’s rogue gallery?
They would’ve been criminals anyway due to their weak fortitude, they often blame Batman for their existence, but the only thing Batman did to them was encourage the costume and gimmicky motifs.
@@FoxsDumbSeriesMaker that's not the point that The Batman was trying to make. Him being nothing but a rage filled, violent embodiment of vengeance only inspired more violence. Batman needed to be more. He needed to be a symbol of hope.
In these latter DC comics and movies, there's a push to make all our beloved heroes into bad guys. Batman is accused of inflating the crime rate simply for existing, despite the fact that without him, Gotham would plunge into darkness rapidly.
Superman is suddenly being used as a bad guy because he had the audacity to kill The Joker. Ya know, The Joker - the guy who murdered hundreds of people for sheer laughs. Apparently, he's not allowed to be taken down by violence because that'll make all the good guys evil.
Thank you for pointing out Batman's efforts to help people outside of cape and cowl! ...LOT of people miss that...even people put in charge of Batman projects!
On the subject of Batman's villains being responsible for his creation and not the other way around, it's almost literally true when it comes to DCAU Joker. In Mask of the Phantasm, Bruce was just about ready to give up on crime fighting and go live a normal life with Andrei Beaumont but then Joker or Jack as was his alias at the time, murdered her father which caused her to break off her engagement to Bruce and become the Phantasm which in turn re motivated him to start his crusade and become Batman. So in a roundabout way, The Joker created Batman before Batman supposedly created the Joker.
They do something similar in the 89 movie with having pre Joker Jack be Bruce's parent's killer, but here it's handled with way more subtlety and makes more sense.
I actually got led on in a similar way to penguin by a rich girl after my mother died.
Real
Hope you didn't respond by kidnapping her and making her endure a horrific opera!
@@SerumLakeor Vogon poetry.
@@lyokianhitchhikerresistance is useless!
Thanks!
No, no, thank you! Glad you enjoyed the video
@@SerumLake I always enjoy hearing your opinions. Can’t wait for more great work in the future!
How do you guys pay money through RUclips?
@@adilmyrat3210 use the thanks button
I like the idea that The Riddler is actually smartest of all Bats rogue gallery and didn't just leave because he knew the plan would fail, I like the idea that deep down he also knows Bats isn't at fault for his creation and probably not for others as well.
He willingly chose the path of The Riddler and he's fine with it, and holds no grudge for Bats and recognises his innocence
I appreciate how you respect Poison Ivy for being a different kind of villain who refuses to b like the others. They could revoke her doctorate and she wouldn't care, much less start a fire in their vault.
The fact that you were able to make a 17 minute long video discussing only one specific aspect of the villains' depth and motivations in this series is such a testament to the quality of this show's writing.
Out every episode of BTAS, "Trial" to me is the episode that would have benefited the most from being a two-parter. While "Trial" was a fun episode and the overall premise I think is amazing, its concept was way too good to be compressed in a single 22-minute episode. It needed much more.
After Batman is captured I always felt the episode goes by a little too fast and some things feel rushed. Ventriloquist and Scarface only get a few lines but were never on the stand and neither was Killer Croc. However the thing that always bothered me the most was that Scarecrow and Riddler are in the episode and don't speak a single word. Imagine Two-Face as the prosecutor making a cutting closing statement where he fiercely, blames Batman for his failure in protecting him which lead to the fateful incident that made him Two-Face. And about the Ace Chemicals incident that lead to the birth of the Joker? It barely gets acknowledged and it's only used for comedic purposes with Harley.
And lastly the character Janet Van Dorn is one that I always forget exists whenever I rewatch the episode and I'm never particularly interested in her character. If they wanted to make this episode have more of an impact they should have had her be more reoccurring after that episode.
As it is, it's a fun episode but it's one that I always thought never totally lived up to its potential and is more comedic than it is impactful.
It was more than just comic relief or did you forget the closing speech from Van Dorn? With that said, the episode would have been better if Dent was the prosecutor and defense for Batman. It would have made the episode more compelling if Dent was forced to defend and prosecute Batman and really delve into his mind.
It was supposed to be a movie too, until Mask of the Phantasm became it.
But I have to admit, they still nailed the pacing and the plot threads regardless. Not even X-Men and Spider-Man eps of the same runtime feel as well cooked in comparison.
Edit: But yes, I share your thoughts mostly on Van Dorn. Would have loved to see her return in a surprisingly important role even in Justice League+Unlimited.
This ep in a nutshell: insane, costumed criminals attempt to pin the sources of their problems on another crazy, costumed, violent man and fail to gaslight him instead of taking accountability
Some dude on a batsuit saves people from being assaulted, kidnapped or killed by psychopats, monsters, addicts and extremists, also helps poor people and give support to broken families damaged by some of these villains: "Oh no! He's a crazy and violent man!"
It's not like you can stop the Joker using words and hugs when he has a bomb or a gun.
Bro’s missed the whole point of the trial episode BADLY💀💀
Do you think Snyderverse has the most accurate version of Batman?
Don’t understand the comments. I think they misread BADLY 💀
@@herrfantastisch7489 really? How?
I also love that at least The Ventriloquist makes a full recovery and reform. Wesker rejects Scarface and becomes an upstanding person.
I actually prefer Joker's origin of being an evil, nasty person long before meeting Batman and not the 'desperate, innocent man to crazy, lunatic monster' path.
Goes to show that his character has been long gone from saving, and his mission in life was to be chaos itself. His life never had that "one bad day" because its been bad since day one. He's been a monster long before the rouges gallery had even come across Batman. That just makes him more terrifying.
awesome one of my favorite episodes can't wait to check it out
I really like how as much as they despise Batman, the jury finds him "innocent" because to find him guilty would be to deny their own agency in their lives.
In relation to Superman TAS, I think Liverwire also debunk the "one bad day" thing. Leslie Willis was pretty much a mean, rude, disrespectful and arrogant person even before she accidently gained her powers. Her electrical abilities only encouraged her to become even more bad than she was before. The worst part was that she still had the audacity to blame Superman for what happened to her (which wasn't the case), even when she enjoyed using her newfound powers to do wrong.
(I'm aware that she later saved Superman in a comic issue and regretted her actions. She even managed to get rid of her powers, only to regain them at the end. Also, she later appeared in a Justice League episode in which she caused mayhem and destruction with other villains, so I don't think the comic is still really canon).
Exactly. She's no Harley Quinn. She brought that on herself
I really wish Justice League+Unlimited still deemed most of those tie-in comic plotlines canon.
I love this episode. I am an absolute sucker for stories where the main hero are having their actions and the possible consequences of them be picked apart by other characters 😊
4:28 considering how BTAS Joker basically shares Jack Nicholson's Joker's origins from Batman 1989, so much so he was even given the name Jack Napier, what Nicholson's Joker was called before the vat. so i always went with that BTAS Joker's origins was a 1 to 1 to 1989 Joker's origins
7:46 - I remember that episode. In the end of that one, Batman told Robin a riddle - "How much is a good night sleep's worth?"
Too bad that Mr Freeze,Clayface and Penguin weren’t in the Trail since they were definitely wronged by the world but only that we didn’t get to see Penguin’s origin but funny that you mention this since there is a One Bad Day on the villains.
I think it's because none of those villains specifically blame Batman for their lives. Penguin definitely doesn't, does he ever blame anybody? Freeze blames Boyle and himself, and of course Clayface blames Dagget. Oh, and Clayface was presumed dead at this point I think? I don't know if he had come back yet.
Freeze would never associate himself with people like Joker or Mad Hatter. They are manipulative psychopaths, everything Freeze absolutely hates.
A beautiful twist of a flawed but widely accepted idea. I don’t know the exact chemical composition of the serum your lake is composed of, but I wish more people took it if this is the result.
This really is a testament to how important the setting itself is to how you create character backstories. Batman doesn't resemble his villains because he created them, but rather because in a sense Gotham itself created them all. The sheer number of villains who are either screwed over because they refuse to partake in crime or ruthless business practices is a testament to how corrupt Gotham is moreso than any one individual running around, and what a lot of adaptations forget is that fact. What's interesting to me is that it really highlights that adaptations which fail forget that it's the city that Batman is fighting against, not the criminals.
Damn Killer Croc was a wrestler? Imagine him going toe-to-toe with The Undertaker.
The funnest part about it is that batsman help himself by helping these people. After all he is nothing but a child in man body.
3:47 Maybe the inhibitions kept him better than the Terrible Trio and that's how Batman says at least there's the insanity excuse. Or maybe Batman didn't know Jack worked for Vallestra back then.
It should be easy to see the flaw in Joker's "One Bad Day" logic because Batman's existence already disproves it. Bruce already had his one bad day, when his parents died, and instead of turning him into a monster, it turned him into Batman.
Honestly...if I was in that trial I would've pulled a medea goes to jail and be like "Everybody got a life and what you do with that life it's up to you"
But in another case if anyone else was in that tiral and if they have the guts to it, they would've turned that whole tiral into a call out section
This one is my favorite so far. Really encapsulates the similarities and differences between batman and his rogues gallery. Really awesome stuff. All it took was one bad day for Bruce to do something amazing with his life.
Honestly I think one thing I like about BTAS is that the villains are almost always partially responsible for their actions. This isn't just emphasized in this episode, their cop-out redemption episodes show this too. Frequently it's some kinda big character flaw that makes their redemptions failures. The show does have the compassion to portray them as at least mentally ill people who need more than just your daily beating from Bman (except Joker) and shows they are somewhat tragic, but they still make their choices in the end and have agency. Which is probably part of why Arnold Wesker is one of my favorite characters on this show. He makes a conscious choice to try and leave his old life behind and commits to it. He gets a lot of help, but he's the one to shoot Scarface, giving him so much agency in his redemption and that just hammers home the point of the show so much better and makes him a much stronger character than you'd think.
very well presented and enjoyable video, 10/10. I like the attention to detail and nuance, without losing sight of your point. it probably helps this series was a big part of my childhood, but honestly, even entirely seperate from that, i think i would have been glad to have clicked on this video, it was genuinely interesting to think about.
Without a doubt, Trial is my absolutely favorite episode in the show! The script, animation, characters, everything works and is amazing to see, truly a mini movie just like the creators called the series
The only flaw is Riddler's sudden disappearance in the final act, he could've had some lines or just be there with the other rouges in the final confrontation (but I like the idea of him escaping)
I just really love the concept of the rougues getting together and take over Arkham
7:05 "it's not about the money it's about sending a message"
The best counter I've seen is a fanmade comic of Joker trying to pull some shit on Spider Man, only for Spidey to reveal all the crap he's been through.
When Batman arrives, Joker is saying that maybe he should overthink his life, given how much worse Spider Man had it without breaking.
Nothing I've seen indicates the "One Bad Day" thing is anything more than a catchy line the Joker said once that everyone fixates on because "oh evil and good aren't really that different" is an idea people love for having the appearance of intellectualism without needing any thought behind it. Everyone will go through the worst day of their life, and for millions around the world, that day is going to be darker than anything a comic or cartoon writer can put to paper; the overwhelming, vast majority of them remain compassionate people trying to live their lives to the best of their ability.
A note about the Joker - in Mad Love, when Harley has Batman hanging, he starts laughing, and mentions Joker had her pegged for minion duty the moment she got to Arkham. Batman goes "What was that line? THe only time dad smiled was at the ice show, I was 7." and Harley, crying, goes "He said it was the circus". Joker has been doing the unreliable thing for decades.
That was beautifully written man
I always found the argument of Batman creating his rogues gallery to be unfair. Bruce never made any of his villains. He has tried to help them on several occasions, but they usually reject his help. Let's look at Baby doll 4 example. She was born with a condition that prevented her from physically ageing. All her life, she has been rejected and looked down upon, and when her show was cancelled, she snapped and became a criminal. However, she did not turn to crime because of 1 bad day. She turned to crime because she had a bad life, and losing her career was the last straw.
T
“All it takes is just one bad day”
A bad day does not cause someone to go mad.
It can be a tipping point. In either direction
to reaffirm and go forward with the outlook of not wanting others to feel bad like you did.
or hating it to the point you'd want to see everyone and everything burn so no bad day can potentially happen ever.
As a young writer, I'm learning about characterization from your vids and I thank you 💕💕
keep up the good work ! I'd actually love a video essay about livewire since you're diving into stas as well
You know I really love this take on the one bad day.
On top of the info from the writer’s Bible about Ivy, I had a Batman the animated series coloring book growing up that had a picture of giant plants saving her unconscious body (still in lab worker uniform) from a greenhouse/lab fire. I swear.
7:39 that's why he's the smartest one
One of your best. Thank you for getting the BTAS Dark Knight, right...
BTAS: exists
BTAS supplemental media: Hey guys, have you heard of this magical thing called *_grape?!?_*
Like geez who wrote all that stuff, Mark Millar?
The irony is that Joker is even disproven not too long after in the Killing Joke. Gordon comes out of the torture still sane. Pretty roughed up but still sane and telling Batman to book Joker.
And this could be the same argument for Spider-Man and his villains.
A pity a lotta Spidey cartoons aren't embracing of the redemption rule. Looking at you, The Animated Series and how villains like Doctor Octopus don't get sympathy from Spidey anymore as time went on.
@@michaelandreipalon359
That's one thing I really appreciated about No Way Home. Peter actually gave a shit about helping the villains.
@@kamikazelemming1552 Hehe, which Peter of the three?
Kraven turned out to be pretty heroic in the 90s series and Sandman got a redemption in Spectacular
@@DeBean970 Which can be jarring to fans who prefer Kraven being a villain.
I don't count Spectacular at most nowadays. Its fault for not having a proper endgame.
The lack of an OSHA regulatory body in Gotham is a major factor in creating at least some of the Rogues, especially Joker and Two Face.
Regulations are written in blood.
great analysis; always fun to see this logic questioned
Great video!
Even the comic the "one bad day" idea comes from more or less rejects it. Edit: you do cover that yayyyyy.
Fun fact: "Killing Joke" itself proves that "One bad day" is bullshit and Joker was wrong