I had an archaeology professor just like this. We were all terrified of him. Most students avoided him, but I know that I learned more from him than the 'nicer' professors because he toughened me up and pushed me to always do my absolute best. Funny story - 20 years later I had emailed him to thank him and let him know my accomplishments and he answered me, "Yes. Well, that's what you were supposed to do." LOL. I died - that was so him. I still love and respect that man.
At the time that I'm writing this reply it says that your comment was posted about 4 months ago. Considering the bar exam is offered twice a year; February and July, my guess is that you took the February bar. So, did you pass?
RIGHT! He is actually teaching! There was one particular faculty member in my doctoral program who did much less in that we were, for example, never taught how to solve the problems facing us but rather taught mathematical proofs of why a particular theorem that could be used to solve the problem facing us was true. LOL! In some cases, I would have killed to have a professor this involved and direct. Intimidating, sure...but at least honest.
I used to have a law professor who would outline a case then ask the question: "what should the verdict be?" After ten minutes of back and forth, he would say, "the correct answer is, I don't know; you don't know; and the judge doesn't know. Only a jury knows and all too often, they get it wrong."
See that's what I would think is the hardest part about being a trial lawyer. For all your knowledge of the law. Years of studying interpretations of the law. Having an understanding when it applies, and when it doesn't. It's all going to come down garbage men, plumbers, gas station attendants.... people who do not understand the law the way you do. And if you can't get them to understand in a matter of a couple of days (8 years of law school simplified for them in 2-5 days) Then you've lost.
The dark haired student with the beard in the back row was my high school English teacher, Mr. Edelstein. He told us about his role when I was his student in Toronto in the mid 70s, where the interior shots were filmed. He said Lindsay Wagner was a real “hippie chick”.
wOW what a great teacher and experience you had. loving this movie brings back memories of how i became litigation paralegal. not all of us became lawyers but I now work for DANY, the real law-and-order. such an inspiring film. hats off to your teacher. thanks for sharing.
I have been practicing for 25 years but whenever I see this movie and especially this scene my hands get sweaty. I also remember right before classes first started I made sure I checked to see if there were reading assignments posted (there were).
What is often misunderstood about Professor Kingsfield character and the “Paper Chase Movie” is that it is a salute to the ideals of education because Professor Kingsfield has dedicated his life to educating students to be the best lawyers they can be and is not interested in wealth or power but rather the expansion of the mind. Legal education is used because it is integral to society and many shows are about lawyers. People can relate to the topic but the real point of the show is the power of education and those who dedicate their lives to it.
I am from China, I saw this movie when I was a middle-school student. I came to the US for my graduation school, after tremendous effort, I found a job and settled here with my career, my wife and I raised one son, ... I cannot deny how this movie changed my life and spirit for decades. And that spirit goes on.
@@yulongutk I see. Thanks to Deng Xiaoping's open policy, you could find an opportunity. But it's completely different story now under Xi's dynastry in closed China. Shame.
I used to watch this film just before my exams as an undergrad. I now show this one scene to my students who are thinking about entering law school (always has a very noticeable impact on them when the clip concludes).
Graduated NYU Law School in the late '80's. Would have paid 2x if I knew I would have a professor like Dr. Kingsfield. Well earned Oscar for Mr. Houseman.
I just started law school and the first case I read in contracts was Hawkins v McGee, the "hairy hand" case. This professor stated the facts of the case exactly right. I love my contracts professor, but she can be tough on cold calls. This guy isn't so bad!
@@nicholasbyrd1964 the difference in value between a perfectly good hand (what he was promised) and a working hand that is hairy (what he got). That value is determined by the jury if there is one.
I have never studied law, but I thought they might consider the income the child could potentially make over a lifetime vs the income he would likely make with the hairy hand. With a child there isn't any actual work history to base it on, so I am probably wrong. But it is one way of looking at calculating loss for a personal injury.
That is NOT what someone practicing the Socratic method is supposed to do. The purpose is so elicit higher thinking skills! It hardly takes someone with brains to threaten to or actually do humiliate a student. It is antithetical to what the Socratic method intends to do! Hope you’ve recovered nicely, Frank!
I could never imagine that I could , after seeing this movie in a cinema more than 40 years ago, could see this film again here. Surprisingly, I could almost repeat the words spoken here by both Hart and Kingsfield. How time flies and technology advances to this extent! How fortunate I am living in this time frame!
I loved this and great to see again. I also watched the dramatic TV series religiously as a teenager. One of the best TV events in my life time. Training a mind to think rather than react to surroundings has been one of the best outcomes for me imaginable.
I never forgot this part of the movie and that was over 35 years ago. What a great movie about law school and the constant pressure to succeed. The Paper Chase did a stupendous job of showing how things go down in law school.. :-) great video clip from the movie...#thepaperchase
Join The Club! I first read The Book then I saw The Movie. Kingsfield was Grade A Gangsta! However now that I am older, I understand the method of his Madness. In Three Years the chosen few who survive will be Lawyers and if they don't know The Law their Client may go to Prison for something they didn't do, or a Client can get off of a crime for what they did. Also someone could get screwed over in a Case.
I loved the Socratic Method and this movie and I honestly do believe should be introduced in elementary and secondary education because when taught in college to me it is too late if you are not a critical thinker or fast on your feet when asked a question! Should be taught in elementary school if you ask me and just my opinion! lol
I taught like that, Valerie, to little kids. But I’d never ever humiliate a student like that! As if Contracts in law school at Harvard is pursuing the Holy Grail! There’s no excuse for it.
True law school anecdote: the professor calls upon a student to discuss the facts of a certain case. He couldn't. The professor, apparently feeling a little Kingsfieldish, gave the student a dime and told him to call his parents and tell them he would never be a lawyer. The student took the dime and started back to his seat. He paused, turned around, and told the professor to take his dime back and use it to call all of his friends.
But this was when a dime was a dime and did you know it shows a scene later with evidence in his study that Kingsfield was mates with half the nation's presidents and supreme court judges? He probably would have needed a million dollars to call them all. In 1973 money.
xdfbsdfh, the "joke" that R C Nelson was making was a reference to the "socratic method". There is always another response to the previous response. Always another question to follow the last question. He was basically saying that the student should suggest to the professor that he do what he JUST suggested the student do.
If Hart had graduated from Harvard Law School, it would mean he would have been practicing Law for 40 Years. I wished that there was a Sequel showing how his life and the others were after Law School.
@@andreaostrovletania I'm sure as a bastard boomer he contributed quite a bit to the economy in heavy taxes so millineal snowflakes could sit in mommie's house and watch Ellen on TV all day long. Look back at all you have....boomers conceived it, boomers mined the raw materials for it, boomers made it. Everything millineals cherish have been engineered and manufactured by bastard boomers. You haven't done shit.
I got called on in law school oh so many years ago, and I just flat out said I didn’t read the case. Professor moved onto next student, who also said he didn’t read it. Professor unloaded on him.
OH god - that happened to me my first day of law school - but I was prepared and had to recite and debate Hawkins for 45 minutes. I got sick afterwards!
I've known professors (and teachers in K-12) who had tones like this. Once or twice, in the presence of such teachers, I think, "Like them!" meaning his or her students.
I was seven years old (I think) when I first saw part of the movie on TV with my mother (who was a legal secretary). My favorite scene was when Hart stumbled again in class and Kingsfield took out a quarter and said "Hart, here is a quarter. Use it to call your mother and tell her that you won't make it as a lawyer." (I believe that's pretty accurate) To which Hart replied, "Kingsfield, you are a son of a bitch!" Kingsfield replied, "That is the first intelligent thing that you have said today Mr. Hart. Sit down." The class erupted in laughter and Hart, acknowledging that his unpreparedness led to Kingfield's statement, realized it wasn't personal, and laughed himself. I remembered that as I attended my first day in law school. I have been practicing for over 25 years and its still amazing to watch.
"...inspired me to be a lawyer..."--Similarly, to at least some extent, Houseman's performance specifically inspired me to, generally, look at professions wherein prejudice against older-aged practitioners was not only not predominant, but the opposite might be true--i.e., prejudice in favor of older professionals was at least possible. That mindset, since seeing the film (in / near Cambridge, MA, in fact) in my 70 years moved me toward a couple areas: (1st) Acting. For obvious reasons. I'm a true "working actor" if not someone you might have "seen...", a member, out of the Los Angeles office, of the Screen Actors Guild, Am. Asscn. of TV & Radio Artists, etc. (So, no--except for a national series of commercials for the Professional Golfers Ascn., you've probably not "seen me.") (2nd) I've been a GS 9, 11 and 12 in federal employment. There, at least it's "on the books" that, one's older age cannot be a detriment to employment nor promotion, assuming one could "do the job." PS I do type very fast--and, obviously, have too much time on my hands at the moment; ..............perhaps a hobby.
Perhaps he should have asked him about vacuum cleaners? In the 80s I got roped into a group interview and it was a 60 minute video of Houseman talking about some obscure company that was in the fortune 500. After an hour it finally got down to what they did; sell vacuum cleaners door to door.
I was really impressed by this film. It brings back the early 1970s so clearly. It also portrays Harvard Law School well, as a school that is attended by students that know having a law degree from Harvard can be a tool to getting the best job and gaining the most respect as a lawyer. A film that relies purely on drama with a complete absence of action scenes, it is at the top of my list.
As this was filmed and set in 1973, Kingsfield is of age to being a WW 2 Veteran. Wouldn't surprise me a bit if he was in the OSS or flew a B-24 thru Ploesti.
You know, as long as you bring a sense of criticism and humour - TV and cinema are not bad universities. I still think the film version of this scene recreated for the great TV series based on this film - was the best.
Good Lord how this scene was so accurate to my literal first day of law school. Whenever I watch this movie and this opening scene, I literally get chills down my back. The sweat in my palms and pure nervousness that even though I had briefed my cases before class that I would be unintelligible at expressing and/or actively stating my points. Especially when it came to the rules.
The correct answer is that the damages are to be measured between a perfect hand (what was promised) and what was given (a hairy hand), and since based in contract rather than tort, no damages for pain and suffering.
jack mayhoffer But remember. Socrates was loved by his students. He set them free to question and study without fear. The man’s a personal hero. Namaste and care, mhikl
Did you ever see Catholic Boys aka Heaven Help Us. There was a Brother Constance (A Jesuit Priest) who was a Teacher who was a "Bully" to say the very least. This was 1965. He took a Paddle and hit a Young Man on the hands when he didn't tell on a Classmate.
Getting flashbacks ... for my Contracts I professor called on me to 'enlighten' the class -- our first substantive class in the first year of law school. Anything you care to know about the rule of damages in Contracts?
I remember my dad watching the re-runs of this series in Jamaica, when I was young. It inspired me to become a lawyer. After a few games of doctor and nurse with George next door, I decided to become a doctor instead...good 'ol dayz.
My education goes as far as Spicolli High in Southern California. I must say, nothing says "summer's over" like the Rushmoresque Houseman. Sometime's his voice sounds like it's coming from a grave.
My first day contracts class went a lot like this (I'm convinced the prof sought out who he thought wasn't prepared). Kingsfield treated this guy much better than my prof (who was far meaner than Kingsfield) treated my classmate, who admittedly was a bit of goof-ball.
@@sambascom2884 I can't recall how he put it exactly, but he all but called one unprepared student "dumb" the first day of class; he wasn't very cordial or accommodating during office hours; one student in class missed the start of the final, thinking it was the next day; the front office called him, he busted ass down to the school -- once he got there, he knocked on the prof's door, who was on the phone and stayed on it for another 10 minutes, ignoring the student. I could probably tell a few more, but I've forgotten many as its been a LONG time ago. However, I will say he softened up a lot the second semester so I think a lot of what he did first semester was either an act or he had personal things going on.
@jpsartrean It's an old case. The modern rule is the value of what was expected + the amount lost - any costs avoided by breaching the contract. In short: (value of good hand) + [(value of good hand) - (value of bad hand)] - (any costs avoided by not having a good hand) = Amount of damages.
Many years ago in my contracts class we had a very ornery prof from the old school who one day humiliated an unsuspecting 1l and dropped dead of a coronary that very weekend.
@ClassValedictorian Not sure about that in situation like this... the boy's 'expectation interest' in the 'benefit of his bargain' is of such a 'specialized' nature - it has been awhile since Contracts, but because the Contract was breached (perhaps arguably due to impossibility of performance), shouldn't the damages be based on restoring the boy to pre-breach status along with whatever 'costs' he lost in entering into the bargain to begin with?
Yes, you should've done your reading. If you didn't, let your professor know before the class and most professors will understand and not cold call you. Also, the professor briefed the case for him and asked him a question that could be answered based on the information provided in the brief. He should've given his best shot trying to provide an at least logically coherent answer on one possible remedy. If you can't do this, maybe law school isn't the place for you.
It's really no different from OCS. "Sound off like you've GOT a pair, Candidate !!" Because if you can play an imperious professor like Kingsfield (based upon Bull Warren of Harvard), handling an appellate court justice during orals is easy.
Christopher Haskell 1 second ago "...inspired me to be a lawyer..." comment a few herein. Similarly, Houseman's performance inspired me toward professions wherein prejudice against older-aged practitioners was not only not dominant, but also the opposite, prejudice in favor of older professionals was at least possible. That mindset, since seeing the film (in / near Cambridge, MA, in fact) in my 70 years moved me toward a couple areas: (1st) Acting. For obvious reasons. If not someone you might have "seen," am member, out of the Los Angeles office, of SAG AFTRA. (So, no--except for a national series of commercials for the Professional Golfers Ascn., you've probably not "seen me.") (2nd) I've been a GS 9, 11 and 12 in federal employment. There, at least it's "on the books" that, one's older age cannot be a detriment to employment nor promotion, assuming one can "do the job." PS I do type very fast--and, obviously, have too much time on my hands at the moment; ..............perhaps a hobby.
@amse, Yeah, this is one of my top 10 of all time. Not within the top 3 (Love Actually, Jesus Of Nazareth, and who knows what else), but definitely within my top ten. It's a shame my family didn't have a VCR when I was in high school back in the early 80's. This movie would have been inspirational enough for me to hit the books well enough to get a high school diploma.
Ironic to mention the R2d K here... There is a scene in The Paper Chase where Hart gets into the so-called 'Red Set'... and flips thru notes from Williston, the Reporter for the First Restatement (and as an ardent Formalist, someone who would probably despise the R2d).... lol
I would check other cases of "hands damaged by surgery" see what they paid then calculate a median amount times his age with respect to life expectations
Aaron Burr is a man I admire greatly. Jefferson's VP. He whacked out Hamilton. When asked to define the law he said, "simply put, the law is what's boldly put forth and plausibly maintained." You cannot help but smile at that level of cynicism. That quote was used in the Paper Chase. My next favorite quote about the law was Mister Bumble - in David Copperfield, if memory serves. He said, "if that is the law, sir, then the law is a ass!" Incidently, Burr led an expedition in the dead of winter, up through the Maine wilderness, to stage a surprise attack on the Brits at Montreal. He took along his Indian girlfriend. She must have been a real beauty because his men nicknamed her "Golden Thighs".
I had a "dragon" professor for criminal law the first semester of my 1L. This woman was the nicest person out of class, but in class, she made a point of being cruel. I know what hazing is, I know what it looks like. I got my own little taste of it as a brother in a fraternity. I knew immediately this woman's goal was to weed out the weak through "academic hazing." And goddamn, she did. Each student would come to class terrified of being called on, never mind the other classes we had to stay up 12-15 hours a night reading for, we were damn Ph.D.'s in criminal law. When you were the unluckiest mook in the world and got called on, ALL eyes fell on you. EVERY fact needed to be recited, EVERY rule of law needed to be discussed and articulated to show mastery. If there was even a slight falter in your ability to speak in front of your classmates and to the professor, she would zero in on it and exploit it. I'll never forget the day I got called on. There were only a couple weeks left in the semester and I thought, moronically, I was in the clear. I had read the case, but only half-assed it. I'll never forget those eyes peering into my soul as I tried to articulate why some fuckin rapist shouldn't be guilty of the crime and his culpability under a common law or MPC jurisdiction.
That’s NOT her job! If a student can’t pass tests, then they know that field is not for them. She should have focused on making criminal law fascinating - which it can be. I took several law courses and fortunately never encountered a prof hell bent on humiliation, although I met a few in other courses. Performing in front of a room of peers has nothing to do with the skills you acquire as a lawyer. Judges can be temperamental but you learn to just state your case. The best lawyers do their homework, and lots of it, and then get their case in the record. And how much time do most of them actually spend in Court, unless they are PDs or State's Attorneys? Humiliating half- terrified students is NOT the way you EVER teach! The best teachers boost their students up. Instilling confidence would far better serve students but it takes real effort on the part of the teacher. Instilling fear in your students is ANTITHETICAL to their education and would be easy. Someone like that likely treats other people that way and is NOT someone to emulate!
Someone, Hubert, Maid Jean probably - made gene? Someone was asking for HAWKINS verses to go alongside High Flight by John Gillespie Mager junior. Glad I could be of help.
Define "a successful operation"! To me, as a forensic expert, it would mean that the patient is alive and well, the skin system is entirely closed, not infected, and the hand is functional with all its senses. Hair is only an inconvenient - esthetically - side effect that can be removed by waxing, razor, and laser.
+greg55666 Movie drama includes artistic license, to interpret reality for entertainment. When reality is shown for what it is, without engaging the license, it is called a documentary.
+Pedro Henrique Barreto de Lima No no you guys aren't getting what I'm saying at all. This movie (and the book) (and in fact, some law professors) make you think the law, and law school, is filled with intelligent people engaged in intellectual battle. It's not true. Lawyers are morons. And being smart is, if anything, a handicap to being a lawyer. I'm not complaining about the movie. I am saying the movie makes the law look so great. In reality it is NOT. I'm not making the usual complaint of an insider, something like, "in real life the bailiff would call order before the judge comes out not after or something pointless like that." I'm saying that lawyers are morons. How many intelligent people do you know in your life, maybe two? Well, the percentage is far higher in real life than it is in the law, and the percentage is certainly not high in real life.
+Pedro Henrique Barreto de Lima Because I am surrounded by them all day every day. Trust me, I know whereof I speak. If you want to randomly defend strangers, surely you can find someone better to defend than lawyers.
+Pedro Henrique Barreto de Lima I KNOW it is hard to believe. What you have to understand first of all is that there is zero feedback. It absolutely does not matter AT ALL whether you are smart or not smart, moral or not moral, articulate or not articulate as a lawyer. Those things count for exactly nothing. The stupidest shittiest lawyer you can imagine will win exactly as much as one who is smart. The judges are actually dumber and more unethical than most attorneys. They do not decide their cases based on whose argument is right or most compelling, they just give it a basic listen, decide who they like more, and decide that way. As a lawyer your only job is to feed the judge a plausible argument, so that if you're lucky enough that he likes your client more than the other, he has a way to justify deciding for you. That's the first thing. Now here is the really invidious part about it. Imagine you ARE smart and ethical and interested in these subtle legal questions. So you argue cases, and you make truly good arguments. The other side are a bunch of unethical morons. The judge is an unethical moron. So rather than an intellectual grappling with the issues, even though the other side's arguments would literally get you laughed out of law school, the judge decides with the other side anyway because he likes corporations more than little people. What would happen? The actually smart and ethical people very quickly QUIT the law to do something else, so there is an unending race to the bottom. I know several people who have law degrees and are smart and ethical, and every one of them is no longer a lawyer. It's not that you could not be smart and become a lawyer, it's that you could not be smart and REMAIN a lawyer. It is too soul-crushingly stupid and pointless an exercise. (There are of course fringe places where you can try to make a difference, working for some non-profit group for the environment or gay rights or women's rights or whatever. Those are the cases that prove the rule.)
And actually, Hart's answer isn't too far off: value of the defendant's unperformed performance, less value accrued to the plaintiff as result of defendant's actions as performed, notwithstanding an existing agreement between the parties regarding special damages (Hadley v. Baxendale) = entitled damages.
I had an archaeology professor just like this. We were all terrified of him. Most students avoided him, but I know that I learned more from him than the 'nicer' professors because he toughened me up and pushed me to always do my absolute best. Funny story - 20 years later I had emailed him to thank him and let him know my accomplishments and he answered me, "Yes. Well, that's what you were supposed to do." LOL. I died - that was so him. I still love and respect that man.
How was he terrifying?? What did he mean when he said that's what you're supposed to do??
Now that I'm done with law school and have taken the bar, I rewatch this and think, "Huh. That professor wasn't so bad."
At the time that I'm writing this reply it says that your comment was posted about 4 months ago. Considering the bar exam is offered twice a year; February and July, my guess is that you took the February bar. So, did you pass?
RIGHT! He is actually teaching! There was one particular faculty member in my doctoral program who did much less in that we were, for example, never taught how to solve the problems facing us but rather taught mathematical proofs of why a particular theorem that could be used to solve the problem facing us was true. LOL! In some cases, I would have killed to have a professor this involved and direct. Intimidating, sure...but at least honest.
Accurate af
lol right!
Ok I'm 67 but remembering the film the professor doesn't look as old to me now ha ha
I used to have a law professor who would outline a case then ask the question: "what should the verdict be?"
After ten minutes of back and forth, he would say, "the correct answer is, I don't know; you don't know; and the judge doesn't know. Only a jury knows and all too often, they get it wrong."
See that's what I would think is the hardest part about being a trial lawyer. For all your knowledge of the law. Years of studying interpretations of the law. Having an understanding when it applies, and when it doesn't.
It's all going to come down garbage men, plumbers, gas station attendants.... people who do not understand the law the way you do.
And if you can't get them to understand in a matter of a couple of days (8 years of law school simplified for them in 2-5 days)
Then you've lost.
@@theridz1981 Left a reply but it didn't link to your comment. It's there however...
@@LeonAllanDavis huh?
@@theridz1981 Sorry...I left a reply to your post but it didn't properly link. I thought it might appear close by...
It was truly a trick question.
The dark haired student with the beard in the back row was my high school English teacher, Mr. Edelstein. He told us about his role when I was his student in Toronto in the mid 70s, where the interior shots were filmed. He said Lindsay Wagner was a real “hippie chick”.
wOW what a great teacher and experience you had. loving this movie brings back memories of how i became litigation paralegal. not all of us became lawyers but I now work for DANY, the real law-and-order. such an inspiring film. hats off to your teacher. thanks for sharing.
"Loudly Mr. Hart, fill this ruuummmm with your intelligence".
Rhum
The neck shrug to follow was epic
I have been practicing for 25 years but whenever I see this movie and especially this scene my hands get sweaty. I also remember right before classes first started I made sure I checked to see if there were reading assignments posted (there were).
They always were
I’ve been practising 13 years i know exactly what you mean.
I went to Law School in Houston, and this is pretty close to correct. The atmosphere, the arrogant 1L professors. Hart stood his ground.
What is often misunderstood about Professor Kingsfield character and the “Paper Chase Movie” is that it is a salute to the ideals of education because Professor Kingsfield has dedicated his life to educating students to be the best lawyers they can be and is not interested in wealth or power but rather the expansion of the mind. Legal education is used because it is integral to society and many shows are about lawyers. People can relate to the topic but the real point of the show is the power of education and those who dedicate their lives to it.
I wish my professors had been this guy!
One of the best movies ever. Perfect cast led by Houseman.
nysguy07 don't forget Lindsey Wagner.
Houseman did win an Oscar for his performance
@@plusfour1 Of course he did, well deserved.
If I did this to one of my students, he would run out of the classroom crying or report me to administration on charges of inappropriate behavior.
I am from China, I saw this movie when I was a middle-school student. I came to the US for my graduation school, after tremendous effort, I found a job and settled here with my career, my wife and I raised one son, ... I cannot deny how this movie changed my life and spirit for decades. And that spirit goes on.
Ni de laojia zai na?
So you watched this film in China ? How was it possible ? was in on Chinese TV ?
@@travellerworld8966 Yes, in sometime between 1980s and 1990s. Hard to believe China was so open in the past.
@@yulongutk I see. Thanks to Deng Xiaoping's open policy, you could find an opportunity. But it's completely different story now under Xi's dynastry in closed China. Shame.
@@yulongutkwhy didnt you study the law in China?
I used to watch this film just before my exams as an undergrad. I now show this one scene to my students who are thinking about entering law school (always has a very noticeable impact on them when the clip concludes).
Graduated NYU Law School in the late '80's. Would have paid 2x if I knew I would have a professor like Dr. Kingsfield. Well earned Oscar for Mr. Houseman.
I just started law school and the first case I read in contracts was Hawkins v McGee, the "hairy hand" case. This professor stated the facts of the case exactly right. I love my contracts professor, but she can be tough on cold calls. This guy isn't so bad!
So what's the answer? what should the doctor pay?
@@nicholasbyrd1964 the difference in value between a perfectly good hand (what he was promised) and a working hand that is hairy (what he got). That value is determined by the jury if there is one.
I have never studied law, but I thought they might consider the income the child could potentially make over a lifetime vs the income he would likely make with the hairy hand. With a child there isn't any actual work history to base it on, so I am probably wrong. But it is one way of looking at calculating loss for a personal injury.
@@velvetbees the only claim that survived in this case was a contracts case, not a personal injury case.
I studied Carlill vs Carbolic smoke ball....😮
there's nothing like a bit of the socratic method to make you throw up
That is NOT what someone practicing the Socratic method is supposed to do. The purpose is so elicit higher thinking skills! It hardly takes someone with brains to threaten to or actually do humiliate a student.
It is antithetical to what the Socratic method intends to do!
Hope you’ve recovered nicely, Frank!
I'd make the teacher puke because of my vast intellect
@@terriok1 Don't be such a wimp. It's a movie. Whatever his method was it worked quite well and made for good cinema.
@@terriok1 Sounds like you've never been to law school...
I could never imagine that I could , after seeing this movie in a cinema more than 40 years ago, could see this film again here. Surprisingly, I could almost repeat the words spoken here by both Hart and Kingsfield. How time flies and technology advances to this extent! How fortunate I am living in this time frame!
I threw up my first day too but I waited until I got home
I loved this and great to see again. I also watched the dramatic TV series religiously as a teenager. One of the best TV events in my life time. Training a mind to think rather than react to surroundings has been one of the best outcomes for me imaginable.
I never forgot this part of the movie and that was over 35 years ago. What a great movie about law school and the constant pressure to succeed. The Paper Chase did a stupendous job of showing how things go down in law school.. :-) great video clip from the movie...#thepaperchase
yeah, great book, too. "the house of god" is another one in a similar vein to it, coming from a med school perspective.
ultrakool
Thanks for the heads-up, UltraKool.
Namaste and care,
mhikl
Тhis moviе is now аaаvаilаblе tо wаtcсh heееrе => twitter.com/bafdbf0c804f6ecfb/status/795843563972153344 Thеeе Рaаper Chasе 1973
pressure to succeed? law school is about brainwashing.
Lol! I also have this case assigned as my first reading for contracts class next week. Too funny
I can laugh at this from a safe distance of age 58. But I know damn well I'd be scared shitless if I were Hart.
Join The Club! I first read The Book then I saw The Movie. Kingsfield was Grade A Gangsta! However now that I am older, I understand the method of his Madness. In Three Years the chosen few who survive will be Lawyers and if they don't know The Law their Client may go to Prison for something they didn't do, or a Client can get off of a crime for what they did. Also someone could get screwed over in a Case.
1:55 I love how Houseman/Kingsfield rolls his "r" on "grafted." 👍
I loved the Socratic Method and this movie and I honestly do believe should be introduced in elementary and secondary education because when taught in college to me it is too late if you are not a critical thinker or fast on your feet when asked a question! Should be taught in elementary school if you ask me and just my opinion! lol
I taught like that, Valerie, to little kids.
But I’d never ever humiliate a student like that! As if Contracts in law school at Harvard is pursuing the Holy Grail! There’s no excuse for it.
research! And taught to
@@terriok1 That's not humiliating. That's simply asking you to do your work and use your brain.
It produced a hairy hand.
Warren Zevon: "He's a hairy-handed gent, who ran amok in Kent..."
True law school anecdote: the professor calls upon a student to discuss the facts of a certain case. He couldn't. The professor, apparently feeling a little Kingsfieldish, gave the student a dime and told him to call his parents and tell them he would never be a lawyer.
The student took the dime and started back to his seat. He paused, turned around, and told the professor to take his dime back and use it to call all of his friends.
R C Nelson what does this mean?
I laughed
But this was when a dime was a dime and did you know it shows a scene later with evidence in his study that Kingsfield was mates with half the nation's presidents and supreme court judges? He probably would have needed a million dollars to call them all. In 1973 money.
Professor has no friends.
xdfbsdfh, the "joke" that R C Nelson was making was a reference to the "socratic method". There is always another response to the previous response. Always another question to follow the last question.
He was basically saying that the student should suggest to the professor that he do what he JUST suggested the student do.
Life Lesson from this Scene. Always Be Prepared! Can you imagine going into Court and not knowing the facts of a Case.
If Hart had graduated from Harvard Law School, it would mean he would have been practicing Law for 40 Years. I wished that there was a Sequel showing how his life and the others were after Law School.
He became some corrupt bastard boomer.
@@andreaostrovletania I'm sure as a bastard boomer he contributed quite a bit to the economy in heavy taxes so millineal snowflakes could sit in mommie's house and watch Ellen on TV all day long. Look back at all you have....boomers conceived it, boomers mined the raw materials for it, boomers made it. Everything millineals cherish have been engineered and manufactured by bastard boomers. You haven't done shit.
A yale professor has written a book telling where they all are - trapped serving the ruling class.
The meritocracy trap is the name of the book
At least kingsfield sees a victim here hairy hand.
I got called on in law school oh so many years ago, and I just flat out said I didn’t read the case. Professor moved onto next student, who also said he didn’t read it. Professor unloaded on him.
That was my daily experience in school from K-12
Mine in the math class throughout the high school (in Europe).
I was fortunate enough to have a professor with the demeanor of Charles Kingsfield in college, though I did not know how favored I was at the time.
My contracts prof. coached John Houseman on acting like a contracts prof. And we started the course with the case of Hawkins v. McGee.
OH god - that happened to me my first day of law school - but I was prepared and had to recite and debate Hawkins for 45 minutes. I got sick afterwards!
Congratulations on making it through the 45 minutes.
Hawkins? Glad you made it! By the way, they’ve omitted logic games from the LSAT!
@@terriok1 forever?!!?!?!??!
I am reading this case right now! haha. I love this movie.
I've known professors (and teachers in K-12) who had tones like this. Once or twice, in the presence of such teachers, I think, "Like them!" meaning his or her students.
This just gave me ptsd. I hated cold calls
I was seven years old (I think) when I first saw part of the movie on TV with my mother (who was a legal secretary). My favorite scene was when Hart stumbled again in class and Kingsfield took out a quarter and said "Hart, here is a quarter. Use it to call your mother and tell her that you won't make it as a lawyer." (I believe that's pretty accurate) To which Hart replied, "Kingsfield, you are a son of a bitch!" Kingsfield replied, "That is the first intelligent thing that you have said today Mr. Hart. Sit down." The class erupted in laughter and Hart, acknowledging that his unpreparedness led to Kingfield's statement, realized it wasn't personal, and laughed himself. I remembered that as I attended my first day in law school. I have been practicing for over 25 years and its still amazing to watch.
I remember that scene, too! 🙂
It was a dime, not a quarter. It was 1973.
@@RagingSurf90210 Really Ragin Surf? I was seven-give me a break LOL!
It was a dime.
Entertaining but you were also able to take something valuable away from it as your own. Wonderful
my fav series during childhood which inspired me to be a lawyer...and I had a lecturer exactly like prof kingsfield...
"...inspired me to be a lawyer..."--Similarly, to at least some extent, Houseman's performance specifically inspired me to, generally, look at professions wherein prejudice against older-aged practitioners was not only not predominant, but the opposite might be true--i.e., prejudice in favor of older professionals was at least possible.
That mindset, since seeing the film (in / near Cambridge, MA, in fact) in my 70 years moved me toward a couple areas:
(1st) Acting. For obvious reasons. I'm a true "working actor" if not someone you might have "seen...", a member, out of the Los Angeles office, of the Screen Actors Guild, Am. Asscn. of TV & Radio Artists, etc. (So, no--except for a national series of commercials for the Professional Golfers Ascn., you've probably not "seen me.")
(2nd) I've been a GS 9, 11 and 12 in federal employment. There, at least it's "on the books" that, one's older age cannot be a detriment to employment nor promotion, assuming one could "do the job."
PS I do type very fast--and, obviously, have too much time on my hands at the moment; ..............perhaps a hobby.
John Houseman's voice is just so ........... John Houseman !
A true thespian....bravo Mr. Houseman! Bravo!
Perhaps he should have asked him about vacuum cleaners?
In the 80s I got roped into a group interview and it was a 60 minute video of Houseman talking about some obscure company that was in the fortune 500. After an hour it finally got down to what they did; sell vacuum cleaners door to door.
I was really impressed by this film. It brings back the early 1970s so clearly. It also portrays Harvard Law School well, as a school that is attended by students that know having a law degree from Harvard can be a tool to getting the best job and gaining the most respect as a lawyer. A film that relies purely on drama with a complete absence of action scenes, it is at the top of my list.
As this was filmed and set in 1973, Kingsfield is of age to being a WW 2 Veteran.
Wouldn't surprise me a bit if he was in the OSS or flew a B-24 thru Ploesti.
You know, as long as you bring a sense of criticism and humour - TV and cinema are not bad universities. I still think the film version of this scene recreated for the great TV series based on this film - was the best.
I think in this clip there is a learning moral about the contemporary thinking on leadership styles.
Good Lord how this scene was so accurate to my literal first day of law school. Whenever I watch this movie and this opening scene, I literally get chills down my back. The sweat in my palms and pure nervousness that even though I had briefed my cases before class that I would be unintelligible at expressing and/or actively stating my points. Especially when it came to the rules.
Unless you're 80 years old, I call BS. By the time I got to law school 30 years ago no one was teaching like this anymore.
The correct answer is that the damages are to be measured between a perfect hand (what was promised) and what was given (a hairy hand), and since based in contract rather than tort, no damages for pain and suffering.
I remember this case in law school. Contracts was not an easy course.
I went to a catholic high school in the 70's. I still have these nightmares.
jack mayhoffer
But remember. Socrates was loved by his students. He set them free to question and study without fear.
The man’s a personal hero.
Namaste and care,
mhikl
Me too, Jack!
Did you ever see Catholic Boys aka Heaven Help Us. There was a Brother Constance (A Jesuit Priest) who was a Teacher who was a "Bully" to say the very least. This was 1965. He took a Paddle and hit a Young Man on the hands when he didn't tell on a Classmate.
I think the thumbs down are from people with social anxiety who got singled out in school haha.
He’s an even greater driver’s ed teacher
this movie documents the early 70's so well.
R.I.P. John Jay Osborn. ❤️
Damn, i miss college!
Wow, Hawkins vs McGee was a real case in New Hampshire in 1929.
Wikipedia has it.
nudist1033 Yes it is a fundamental case in contracts law.
nudist1033 yes... it’s a law school asking for facts of the case... of course it’s real
They're all real cases. The family of Hawkins never knew the case's importance or that it was taught in law school until this movie's release
Yeah, we actually covered that case in Contracts.
I'm sure Garrett and Daily (however they're spelled) had no idea they'd become fundamental cases
The scene where Hart vists Kevin about his outline made my ears bleed. Back when people played never ending elevator music in their homes.
Would it be an assumption on the professor's part for posting class reading in two halls Hart must have seen it?
Getting flashbacks ... for my Contracts I professor called on me to 'enlighten' the class -- our first substantive class in the first year of law school. Anything you care to know about the rule of damages in Contracts?
this movie is the best.
We only discussed offer and acceptance in the first week . . .
I remember my dad watching the re-runs of this series in Jamaica, when I was young. It inspired me to become a lawyer.
After a few games of doctor and nurse with George next door, I decided to become a doctor instead...good 'ol dayz.
Hey, I remember you ....................HHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAA............(8^P
Series? I thought it was a movie.
@@Frungi both
Sometimes you eat the bar...other times the bar eats you.
I so wish law professors were like this today. Mine mostly sucked. Not all, but mostly.
My education goes as far as Spicolli High in Southern California. I must say, nothing says "summer's over" like the Rushmoresque Houseman. Sometime's his voice sounds like it's coming from a grave.
It’s amazing how many people missed the point(s) of the movie!
What’s the point?
My first day contracts class went a lot like this (I'm convinced the prof sought out who he thought wasn't prepared). Kingsfield treated this guy much better than my prof (who was far meaner than Kingsfield) treated my classmate, who admittedly was a bit of goof-ball.
May I ask more about how your teacher was meaner??
@@sambascom2884 I can't recall how he put it exactly, but he all but called one unprepared student "dumb" the first day of class; he wasn't very cordial or accommodating during office hours; one student in class missed the start of the final, thinking it was the next day; the front office called him, he busted ass down to the school -- once he got there, he knocked on the prof's door, who was on the phone and stayed on it for another 10 minutes, ignoring the student. I could probably tell a few more, but I've forgotten many as its been a LONG time ago. However, I will say he softened up a lot the second semester so I think a lot of what he did first semester was either an act or he had personal things going on.
I'd like them to do a movie version of One L.
@jpsartrean It's an old case. The modern rule is the value of what was expected + the amount lost - any costs avoided by breaching the contract.
In short: (value of good hand) + [(value of good hand) - (value of bad hand)] - (any costs avoided by not having a good hand) = Amount of damages.
Is there a yway you could up.oad some videos of the paper chase
John Houseman is superb in this. That commanding accent. The case mentioned - ://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawkins_v._McGee
Many years ago in my contracts class we had a very ornery prof from the old school who one day humiliated an unsuspecting 1l and dropped dead of a coronary that very weekend.
I hope the prof was the one who dropped dead.
There’s no excuse for humiliating an un aggressive student!
Intense. Genius.
@ClassValedictorian Not sure about that in situation like this... the boy's 'expectation interest' in the 'benefit of his bargain' is of such a 'specialized' nature - it has been awhile since Contracts, but because the Contract was breached (perhaps arguably due to impossibility of performance), shouldn't the damages be based on restoring the boy to pre-breach status along with whatever 'costs' he lost in entering into the bargain to begin with?
Yes, you should've done your reading. If you didn't, let your professor know before the class and most professors will understand and not cold call you. Also, the professor briefed the case for him and asked him a question that could be answered based on the information provided in the brief. He should've given his best shot trying to provide an at least logically coherent answer on one possible remedy. If you can't do this, maybe law school isn't the place for you.
It's really no different from OCS. "Sound off like you've GOT a pair, Candidate !!" Because if you can play an imperious professor like Kingsfield (based upon Bull Warren of Harvard), handling an appellate court justice during orals is easy.
Christopher Haskell
1 second ago
"...inspired me to be a lawyer..." comment a few herein.
Similarly, Houseman's performance inspired me toward professions wherein prejudice against older-aged practitioners was not only not dominant, but also the opposite, prejudice in favor of older professionals was at least possible.
That mindset, since seeing the film (in / near Cambridge, MA, in fact) in my 70 years moved me toward a couple areas:
(1st) Acting. For obvious reasons. If not someone you might have "seen," am member, out of the Los Angeles office, of SAG AFTRA. (So, no--except for a national series of commercials for the Professional Golfers Ascn., you've probably not "seen me.")
(2nd) I've been a GS 9, 11 and 12 in federal employment. There, at least it's "on the books" that, one's older age cannot be a detriment to employment nor promotion, assuming one can "do the job."
PS I do type very fast--and, obviously, have too much time on my hands at the moment; ..............perhaps a hobby.
@amse,
Yeah, this is one of my top 10 of all time. Not within the top 3 (Love Actually, Jesus Of Nazareth, and who knows what else), but definitely within my top ten.
It's a shame my family didn't have a VCR when I was in high school back in the early 80's. This movie would have been inspirational enough for me to hit the books well enough to get a high school diploma.
Sorry, can i ask what were the contract law cases discussed in this movie.?
“𝑾𝒉𝒆𝒓𝒆 you going to ask a question, I guess” ?
I am curious, what is the monetary amount?
Planning to show this to my students one day!
You might as well be a Drill Instructor :)
59 HIGH STREET 03570 HAWKINS VS MCGEE where it all began!!!BUY THE HOUSE BE A PART OF THE LEGEND.
They make money the old fashioned way.....they earn it.
Smith-Barney. I remember those ads.
Shows the importance of a scientific education that science majors get compact to history majors
It's a good way to learn, but you are forced out of fear
Ironic to mention the R2d K here... There is a scene in The Paper Chase where Hart gets into the so-called 'Red Set'... and flips thru notes from Williston, the Reporter for the First Restatement (and as an ardent Formalist, someone who would probably despise the R2d).... lol
Issue
Rule
Analysis
Conclusion
Though I'm a CRAC man my self
Issue ,ruling, reasoning,and conclusion
Never thought about it before - but that takes the soul out of the law. The cases become mere equations, not stories.
@@petergroves81 In science: Purpose, Procedure, Results, Conclusion
Did you hand in your assigment Mr Beeeeeerg?
Socrates Method. Always tangles the tongue of the person receiving it.
What is the right answer?
I would check other cases of "hands damaged by surgery" see what they paid then calculate a median amount times his age with respect to life expectations
Aaron Burr is a man I admire greatly. Jefferson's VP. He whacked out Hamilton.
When asked to define the law he said, "simply put, the law is what's boldly put forth and plausibly maintained."
You cannot help but smile at that level of cynicism. That quote was used in the Paper Chase.
My next favorite quote about the law was Mister Bumble - in David Copperfield, if memory serves. He said, "if that is the law, sir, then the law is a ass!"
Incidently, Burr led an expedition in the dead of winter, up through the Maine wilderness, to stage a surprise attack on the Brits at Montreal. He took along his Indian girlfriend. She must have been a real beauty because his men nicknamed her "Golden Thighs".
1869 BEACON ST SUFFOLK LAW 1970 - 1985 >>>PIERSON V. POST. SAW THIS AT CLEVELAND CIRCLE CINEMA 73.
Anybody know the answer??? :-)
I had a "dragon" professor for criminal law the first semester of my 1L. This woman was the nicest person out of class, but in class, she made a point of being cruel. I know what hazing is, I know what it looks like. I got my own little taste of it as a brother in a fraternity. I knew immediately this woman's goal was to weed out the weak through "academic hazing." And goddamn, she did.
Each student would come to class terrified of being called on, never mind the other classes we had to stay up 12-15 hours a night reading for, we were damn Ph.D.'s in criminal law. When you were the unluckiest mook in the world and got called on, ALL eyes fell on you. EVERY fact needed to be recited, EVERY rule of law needed to be discussed and articulated to show mastery. If there was even a slight falter in your ability to speak in front of your classmates and to the professor, she would zero in on it and exploit it. I'll never forget the day I got called on. There were only a couple weeks left in the semester and I thought, moronically, I was in the clear. I had read the case, but only half-assed it. I'll never forget those eyes peering into my soul as I tried to articulate why some fuckin rapist shouldn't be guilty of the crime and his culpability under a common law or MPC jurisdiction.
That’s NOT her job! If a student can’t pass tests, then they know that field is not for them. She should have focused on making criminal law fascinating - which it can be. I took several law courses and fortunately never encountered a prof hell bent on humiliation, although I met a few in other courses.
Performing in front of a room of peers has nothing to do with the skills you acquire as a lawyer. Judges can be temperamental but you learn to just state your case. The best lawyers do their homework, and lots of it, and then get their case in the record. And how much time do most of them actually spend in Court, unless they are PDs or State's Attorneys?
Humiliating half- terrified students is NOT the way you EVER teach! The best teachers boost their students up. Instilling confidence would far better serve students but it takes real effort on the part of the teacher.
Instilling fear in your students is ANTITHETICAL to their education and would be easy. Someone like that likely treats other people that way and is NOT someone to emulate!
The facts of the case should be stated as to the reason behind those 1973 hairstyles
It'll just be the same reason behind those 2010s tribal tattoos.
The best sadistic teacher since Stig Järrel played the latin teacher in Ingmar Bergman's movie Torment (Hets) in 1944.
Sadistic is about right, Johan!
Someone, Hubert, Maid Jean probably - made gene? Someone was asking for HAWKINS verses to go alongside High Flight by John Gillespie Mager junior. Glad I could be of help.
Oh this dude..? (The professor) 😁😁😁
Define "a successful operation"! To me, as a forensic expert, it would mean that the patient is alive and well, the skin system is entirely closed, not infected, and the hand is functional with all its senses. Hair is only an inconvenient - esthetically - side effect that can be removed by waxing, razor, and laser.
It’s not as bad as it shows. If you don’t read it or don’t know how to read a case, they don’t treat you like that.
It's just amazing the difference between what practicing law actually is and what this movie makes you think it is.
+greg55666 Movie drama includes artistic license, to interpret reality for entertainment. When reality is shown for what it is, without engaging the license, it is called a documentary.
+Sy Munir That wasn't really my point.
+Pedro Henrique Barreto de Lima No no you guys aren't getting what I'm saying at all. This movie (and the book) (and in fact, some law professors) make you think the law, and law school, is filled with intelligent people engaged in intellectual battle. It's not true. Lawyers are morons. And being smart is, if anything, a handicap to being a lawyer.
I'm not complaining about the movie. I am saying the movie makes the law look so great. In reality it is NOT. I'm not making the usual complaint of an insider, something like, "in real life the bailiff would call order before the judge comes out not after or something pointless like that." I'm saying that lawyers are morons. How many intelligent people do you know in your life, maybe two? Well, the percentage is far higher in real life than it is in the law, and the percentage is certainly not high in real life.
+Pedro Henrique Barreto de Lima Because I am surrounded by them all day every day. Trust me, I know whereof I speak. If you want to randomly defend strangers, surely you can find someone better to defend than lawyers.
+Pedro Henrique Barreto de Lima I KNOW it is hard to believe. What you have to understand first of all is that there is zero feedback. It absolutely does not matter AT ALL whether you are smart or not smart, moral or not moral, articulate or not articulate as a lawyer. Those things count for exactly nothing. The stupidest shittiest lawyer you can imagine will win exactly as much as one who is smart. The judges are actually dumber and more unethical than most attorneys. They do not decide their cases based on whose argument is right or most compelling, they just give it a basic listen, decide who they like more, and decide that way. As a lawyer your only job is to feed the judge a plausible argument, so that if you're lucky enough that he likes your client more than the other, he has a way to justify deciding for you.
That's the first thing. Now here is the really invidious part about it. Imagine you ARE smart and ethical and interested in these subtle legal questions. So you argue cases, and you make truly good arguments. The other side are a bunch of unethical morons. The judge is an unethical moron. So rather than an intellectual grappling with the issues, even though the other side's arguments would literally get you laughed out of law school, the judge decides with the other side anyway because he likes corporations more than little people. What would happen? The actually smart and ethical people very quickly QUIT the law to do something else, so there is an unending race to the bottom. I know several people who have law degrees and are smart and ethical, and every one of them is no longer a lawyer. It's not that you could not be smart and become a lawyer, it's that you could not be smart and REMAIN a lawyer. It is too soul-crushingly stupid and pointless an exercise.
(There are of course fringe places where you can try to make a difference, working for some non-profit group for the environment or gay rights or women's rights or whatever. Those are the cases that prove the rule.)
And actually, Hart's answer isn't too far off: value of the defendant's unperformed performance, less value accrued to the plaintiff as result of defendant's actions as performed, notwithstanding an existing agreement between the parties regarding special damages (Hadley v. Baxendale) = entitled damages.