Fandaniel showed us that even the sundered Ascians can be very dangerous. My personal guess for the next Ascian we meet is Pashtarot. I'm not even sure why. It's just a feeling.
@@WyrmLimion it would be hard to tell since we have seen the effects of Tempered minions either under effects of mental and physical torpor (Ga Bu) or extreme EXTREME fanaticism after their god was destroyed (any other tempered minion really). we could end up with a "what more is there to do when Lord Zodiark is gone, but Eitherys is as the same as ever just like we had before" and we "untemper" them and they live as "modern" Ancients and live their lives as the post sundering Ancients. this is my extreme day dreaming of course. In a most practical theoretical view, they would simply follow Elidibus' footsteps and just offer themselves to the aetherial sea and be reborn again, now that their charge is gone and the new age of mankind is now in full force. then again, they might be related to the Island Sanctuary. Altima was a "crafter" convocation member, as she was an advocate of the arts. Halmarut is a plant and fungus specialist. Pashtarot is the "security" as he was the Preserver of discipline and order; while we have no idea on what Deudalphon's duty is, he seems to be on the "public affairs" side. They could have made a little space in the source where the pied their specific roles, to make a "little Amaurot" where our Azem could visit and help them.
@@youiri65 Thats a very good point and one I have been thinking about for awhile. With Zodiark gone and their people having passed on, maybe they would found a little Amaurot as you put it to continue the Ancients legacy so that they would be remembered. With regards to tempering im not sure any of the Overlords are tempered since they were sundered and their souls were reincarnated on the source and reflections. Aether instability would have been resolved at that point, which is something I never mentioned in the video but would have been one of the factors that changed Emet-Selch's demeanour when we saw him in Ultima Thule.
@@WyrmLimion oh come to think of it, you're right. the Unsundered were the only ones tempered. the overlords were just...indoctrinated? after being raised into position. I guess that's why Fandaniel seems to be "detached" on the original goal of Rejoining the remaining 13 shards, and more on annihilation of everything. or how Artemis and Gaia seemed to still have time to be in a relationship despite being Mitron and Loghrif.
@@youiri65 Memory is a key part of the identity along with the soul itself. It’s kind of why souls get cleansed in the Aetherial Sea to be reborn as new people. The crystals likely impart the memory of the old Convocation to keep members loyal. Sort of making their persona lean towards to their old self. Not always the same, but so long as they’re loyal to the cause, the Unsundered keep them under control. Fandaniel is the exception, but he did inherit the old memories despite keeping his persona.
25:18 It is my belief that Emet is actually refering to Hydaelyn, the 4th Unsundered, and thusly the last of the Amaurotians to die, as well as being the one who ultimately had the plan in motion that succeeded. The live letter explains that Venat took a gamble and left a crack in her sundering of the world, in the hopes that Emet would be left unsundered; Emet happened to be with Elidibus (who had withdrawn from Zodiark by that point) and Lahabrea, which is why they both also escaped sundering. Without their part in the WoL's story, the WoL would never have reached Elpis, and the answer to the question delivered to Ultima Thule. It is for this reason I am sure Emet's answer is given out of respect to Hydaelyn, despite their differences.
@@errorabortretry3694 Maybe the unsundered were more powerful than rejoined Overlords? I remember Fandaniel being happy when he learned all of the unsundered had died
@@errorabortretry3694 I personally don't believe this. The inferment in the post-Endwalker release interview with Yoshi where he mentioned Venat's gamble which spared Emet, Lahabrea, and Elidibus from being sundered, was that the remaining Ascians ARE around, but whether they will continue the work of Rejoining or not, when Zodiark (and his fragments in the reflections) are gone, or if they will turn their focuses to their own united or personal goals, is something that sadly we will have to wait and see on, potentially never learning. I leave with three points from the Q&A following the 68th PLL in Feb 2022: "Q: Will we have a chance to learn the identities of the full Convocation of Fourteen members? A: So yes we have already decided the true names and identities of every Convocation member. Whether we will tell you or not however will depend on how the plot develops Sorry to tease you however." "Q: Are there Sundered Ascians other than Fandaniel or black masked Ascians of lower rank running around? I’d also like to know which Ascians those 2 red masks that Gaius carries around belong to? A: Wow that’s really meticulous of you, you all are really paying close attention to this game. That was really a good question. Yes I do think there are still some of the Sundered, black masks wearing Ascians running around. But those sundered Ascians however many of them there are, we can’t really say whether they are in the Source or in one of the Reflections. As for the masks that Gaius carries around, they belong to Altima and Deudalaphon. However just because he has the mask doesn’t necessarily mean that he vanquished them. So you have to come out with your own theories as to what is going on there. We have a lot in the story so far about what it takes to truly defeat an Ascian so maybe try to think back on those things when you’re making your own theories." "Q: Were Zodiark and Hydaelyn completely destroyed? Or there are still Sundered parts of them on other Reflections? A: To be really frank on this one and to give you a very straight answer here, Hydaelyn was completely destroyed. Similarly, Fandaniel crushed Zodiark’s heart which is his core and that completely destroys Zodiark. There were of course parts of Zodiark in the other Reflections when he was sealed and split across all of them but at the same time of his main body was destroyed, they all would have also faded into oblivion. "
Gaia did gain some of Loghrif's memories but decided not to become her. Re-watch some of the last Eden cutscenes for proof. Some of the dialogue options talk about her as having the abilities of an Ascian afterwards. I think Fandanial is an example of how the other surviving Ascians likely had their own ideas about how things should be but were under the control of the 3 unsundered. Some may be enemies while others may be allies in the future.
@Fusajiro I don't think she can just because she was a member. Because her memory was very vague in general even as Logriff. And the only way Hades and Hythlodeus knew WoL was Azem because they have the rare talent of seeing the color of souls. Not anyone can do this. That's what made them legible as being Emet-Selch.
@@lunausagi8495 Yep, they were more powerful then the other Ancients in that aspect. Hythlo almost became Emet with just his sensitivity, before he recommend the current one. So I can't see any of the other being able to tell.
Personally I think it’s okay in the story to call back to the Ascians, but not make them focal points. Endwalker went to great lengths to impress on us that their struggle and mission is over and have no inclination to continue. If any do remain, they’re no longer bound to their original goal.
@@lindaking9064 without Zodiark any plans of rejoinings is moot: it leads nowhere. the source consumed some shards already, but it cannot succeed anymore and any hope of ressurrections of those lost at the final days of aumarot is gone.
I’d love to meet the remaining awol ascians someday, whether as allies, enemies, or on neutral ground, but please not for a while Let us enjoy some chill adventuring again square, please
I think we'll see a few of those named Ascians on other reflections in 7.0 and beyond. Each with thier own stories and motivations. I just wonder how many of the council we could swing to Azem's line of thinking, perhaps they will be allies instead of enemies?
Honestly I think at least one of the remaining Ascians could end up being an ally in the future. Since we know so little about a pretty notable chunk of them, there is easily room to give some of them additional story to address that they were never truly onboard with Rejoinings and such, but had no chance to refuse.
@@FinnOtaku before Endwalker came out i was so sure one or two of the sundered Ascians would remain faithful to their plan and help us hunt down Fandaniel
I beleive with everything going on atm with Golbez 10 months later, im subscribing to the idea he is Golbez and that he intends to summon or become Zeromus, likely an aspect of Zodiark's full self in the same way that Fandaniel was a sundered and incomplete Ascian. I believe that Halmarut and Deudalphon aswell as Altima are probably on the other reflections which will allow us to make Gaia a main character (and probably make eden mandatory). But I believe that content will be 8.0 at least if not 9.0 But I do believe we are now dealing with Pashtarot directly, also I have a feeling Travanchet might be Halmarut or Deudalphon, but Altima is probably going to be a nod to Ultimacia from FF8 since we didnt see her directly in Eden.
I hope we get to learn a lot more about the convocation during Pandaemonium. Perhaps we will get more of a conclusion or at least an appearance of the remaining ascians during the next expac or future patches?
Many people are expecting to see a younger Lahabrea at some point in Pandaemonium given his son is there and his connection to this place. I hope we get to see them again, even as antagonists but I personally hope for a storyline where we are on friendly terms.
While I can appreciate having their own agendas, the final days returning and ending all life on the last living planets in the universe seems like the kind of thing everybody would prioritize dealing with before everything else. Endwalker at least should have had a throwaway line from Fandanial at least giving a vague hint as for why they weren't present.
To be fair I dont think they expected the Final Days to come back if they had reformed Zodiark. Sure it would be foolish and short sighted but I think that was the main point of Zodiark to begin with- live in blissful ignorance for as long as they can.
@@Hurley708 the final days wouldn't come back with a reformation of Zodiark, but would with his death - hence why us killing him let the final days happened
@@umbriumbrella3491 I feel like even if he was fully reformed Meteion would overpower him in the distant future when she has more dead worlds in her belt. That's if the people of Etheirys don't off themselves the same way the last species in the dead ends dungeon did.
@@Hurley708 wasnt that the whole reason why Venat sundered eitherys though? Even if they did end up making zodiarc whole again theyd still be defeated by Meteon in the end since most of them if not all just wants to go back to “paradise” “bliss” And I feel like if we never had met her when we went back in-time in Elpis shed be like everyone else. She had to sunder the world so that man could learn to live with suffering and pain but still find the world beautiful since its not all just that. She didn’t barred us from paradise but instead we had to work for it hence “man has to walk” Writing this it makes me remember that the whole xpac is just that, from the mantra of the Palaka people to the short scene in Garlemald with Julius accepting that the world is cruel but its still filled with beauty and its the little things that all makes it better.
With the ascians no longer being mustache twirling villains and zodiark destroyed I hope they do something interesting with the few remaining members since they can really do anything they want now
An Ascian twirling their mustache was certainly an interesting mental image for me lol I agree with you, I hope they return in some form, or at the least we meet some of their incarnations with no Ascian memories.
I really want to know more about Lahabrea. Although he has far more screentime than any sundered, as an unsundered, he has not been done justice until I can weep and bawl my eyes out for him as I did Emet, Elidibus and Venat.
Well, we are fighting in his asylum right now, with the help of his son. So we may find out more about him. And from what we know about him, just from the first circle, I am kinda glad he went out like that. But who knows were that story is going?
There's only one Ascian that we know for a fact that is active: Us. Azem. The Fourteenth Seat. We may not directly be an Ascian, but we have everything needed to be able to do what we've seen them do throughout the Hydaelyn-Zodiark Saga. We even have/had a memory crystal of their seat to "ascend" us to the position, and the "last of us" remark Emet-Selch made was in reference to us. We are the last of the Convocation. We are the Last Seat. We are the final Ascian.
@Nekromanta however, by this particular point in time, Venat is also dead. Emet-Selch can't be speaking of her, because she's currently in the same boat as him and Hythlodeus: dead.
Based on Gaia's requirement to have her memories restored after her death we might be able to assume that when a sundered ascian falls, contrary to Nabriale's belief of immortality (which may reference his abilities instead), they may require aid to come back in a similar fashion to when they were first given the memories. With the soul crystals removed from the equation giving them those memories back is now an impossibility as well. Gaia's death may also hint that the white auracite may not act entirely as we may have been led to believe. Where it instead allows the soul to be tethered in place long enough for a strong enough blow to diminish it to the point where it cannot re-instantiate itself before returning to the aetherial sea. Stopping it from fleeing before being drained too far, per se. Without that, any weaker blows may not diminish it enough. But if you were on par with WoL at the point of shadowbringers or say Ardbert at his level it would be enough for a sundered. We somewhat see this with Emet who was utterly beaten down. Where the auracite was used to soak up his aether rather than trapping him within it. We then proceeded to slam him with what could only be thought of as an equally intense amount of aether as he had in his own reserves left in a blast that we might be able to assume did the same to him. There's also the possibility that the unsundered also lent their aether to the sundered to give them enough aether for their accomplishments. With all this in mind it's fully possible that with the memory crystals now removed from the equation the aetherial sea's memory cleansing would do the rest of the deed. Those remaining would only have limited time remaining. Of course this may all be incorrect as well, and it could be merely as simple as having defeated the unsundered we ripped out the hydra's heart, and left the remaining heads to their devices. After all, their goal is nigh unachievable now.
If I recall right and I could be mistaken.. I remember Emet, and a short story, basically saying that the Unsundered were the ones who could 'wake up' the Sundered and get them going again after they'd fallen. Get their memories back and them ready to go as it were. So with the 3 of them gone, there's no one left to 'wake up' the others who've fallen or hadn't been brought back yet and thus, they're basically in limbo forever?
I think now the reincarnated sundered Ascians are now just people. They have the souls of those members sure but without the crystals they are just people like Gaia.
I pay more attention to using the right music these days and I am glad this one turned out well. Cant go wrong with most of the music we have access to in FF.
Seems like the current Raid of Pandæmonium will hold the story for new Ascians, or reintroducing them, in some form, or perhaps it will simply give closure to the ones who were not given a second perspective, from their own past lives. As great Endwalker was, there are still so many loose ends, and especially the lack of other Ascians, other than Fandaniel, was beyond baffling. Oh well, they could easily have light hearted adventures, before building something new up, lots of places to draw from, Omega, Dragons, from the Beyond...
I’m not so certain. Pandæmonium seems to be focused specifically on Lahabrea seeing as it’s his responsibility, and that the other Convocation members are unaware of the situation. That’s why Themis is there at all and why Azem said to wait for someone to help with his investigation.
@@acgearsandarms1343 Azem knowing that we would be coming to help Themis makes me think Azem is us but in a distant future where we essentially retire into the past. Regardless of that theory, Pandaemonium will probably delve into why Elidibus chose to withdraw from Zodiark rather than enforce its power to overcome Hydaelyn. Something tells me he somewhat agrees with Venat's project in "let's see if they can do what we can't" to save Etheirys
@@Hurley708 That could be, but based on his fragmented memories, his primary motive seemed to be his people and friends, IMO. For the stable time loop to be stable, I think he needs to forget us, either after Pandæmonium or during the Final Days. He can’t tell anyone about us or know anything beyond us being Azem’s familiar. There’s a few ways to explore the memory gap, but there’s a few outcomes it can go.
@@acgearsandarms1343 Kairos is pretty powerful as it can manipulate even the minds of Ancients. The sundering should leave some notable trace of it left within the source and the shards but maybe it was also used in the process of Sundering itself and is the cause of everyone forgetting?
I'd like to just say that Themis, if he is proven to be Elidibus (which he all but completely is) is already holding the seat of Elidibus during the events of Pandæmonium since earlier in Elpis during the main story both Emet-Selch and Hythlodaeus reference a moment where Azem decided to head to a volcano to stop it erupting. This is a direct reference to "Ere our Curtain Falls", a short story where Emet-Selch remembers that Elidibus told him of this event as it was about to happen. Edit: the reason Fandaniel's shard took more from Amon than his old self as Hermes is because he already had some of his old memories. In the post-cutscene for the Aitiascope, he admits that he was haunted by nightmares that he later found out were the memories he'd tried to erase with Kairoz but were 'etched deeper into his soul'. Amon was already built on Hermes' old memories to begin with so when his other memories were added it did almost nothing to change him. Whereas with other Ascians they let the old memories overshadow the new. Understandable, since Ancients lived close to forever, so their old selves were much more established.
I could also see possible amon also having a stronger personality than Hermes had. I mean, from what we get to see from Amon as Fandaniel, he is a very strongwilled, outgoing and opiniated personality who is rather set in on what he wants. Hermes on the other hand seemed much more meager, easily influenced and weak willed. He immediately breaks upon Meteion filing her report.
First off, we defeat a different ascian based on game start location (Uldah, Limsa, Gridania) I started a character from each locations and each time the first ascian you fight is different. Then you defeat an Ascian for each job quests (at least for the majority of them that start in ARR) Then, you defeat some of them through dungeons/ trials and raids. And the only people who could raise Ascians who were sundered back to their ascian seat were the 3 unsundered. Them being gone, should, pretty much solve it. Lastly, they were all tempered by Zodiark who is gone and we do have a solution to tempering now. So if we have only a few ascians left it would be great to see a deep connecting story with some of them where at the end we dont actually kill them but turn them back to normal.
Techńically there is no proof that Zodiark and especially Hydaelyn ever tempered anyone. It's even especially mentioned by Yshtola that the primal summoning ritual taught by ascians was intentionally faulty to include the tempering effect. After all they were able to change it so the primals summoned to fuel the Ragnarok did not temper anyone. Thus there's no reason to believe the first primals Zodiark and Hydaelyn ever were capable of unintentionally tempering souls. I'd say, all of the ascians were untempered. Now sure there were wandering ancient souls on the moon who sure acted like they were tempered but more than likely they were just driven by their desire to save their world just like the ascians were.
I'm pretty sure that incarnation of Mitron died in the Eden raids; dissolving into blue sparkles has always marked the return to the Aetherial Sea, compared to the black soul of the Ascian escaping form the corpse back into the rift. Because of the time differences between shards, It's possible (if unlikely) that Emmeroloth, Nabriales, Igeyorhm, Mitron and Loghrif could have been raised from a different fragment on another Shard. They would likely have zero memory events prior to their Ascension though, or memories of our prior fights with them. That would explain why we see Emmeroloth in the meeting after the destruction of the Isle of Val. Whether Emet-Selch had either the time or inclination to do so is unknown. I wouldn't be surprised if we run into them again in some form on another Shard; if nothing else, it would be nice to see Mitron and Loghrif live out their lives together on another shard, free of their obligations to the Ascians.
As for the "last of us" comment from Emet Selch - I always saw it as meaning "last of the ancients". Hydaelin (Venat) was the final ancient to die. And we have Azem's soul (and crystal), though not Azem's memories. Interesting, though, as Hydaelin calls us her beloved son/daughter at the beginning of the game. At first thought, maybe it simply means "my chosen one". But since we never meet the one whose soul we share when going back to Elpis (and whose gender changes based on our gender), and since Venat/Hydaelin was the previous Azem and refuses to euthanize herself (which is what is generally expected of the convocation members once they retire), I'm thinking - is the Azem that we share our soul with Venat's actual child? Which would be the reason why she chose us? Not just because she loves us in a "deity loving his/her faithful as children" type way, but because we are her actual child reincarnated.
It was already explicitly explained on why she didn't 'return to the star' as it were. She mentioned something along the lines of for as long as mankind needed help, she couldn't leave them on their own. Which was why telling her at our final meeting with her "we will find our way, venat" has a more profound effect on her because it meant that we finally have the strength to move forward and she can finally pass on. Also, she referred to the sundered mankind as her 'children' considering she did kind of 'remade' the world into a sundered version of itself...so really, we're all her kids
During Shadowbringers Elidibus does send more Ascians out to stir up trouble among the people of Norvrandt and give the new heroes a villain to chase. The main group goes off and "deals" with them off screen. However surely there are a handful more out there. Doubtful with Zodiark gone they will be up to anything of much consequence.
My friend hoping that the end of FFXIV has something to do with a reincarnation of Emet-Selch (He simps so hard) It's important to note that Emet-Selch's memories are returned as soon as he returns to the aetherial sea. So some people now see that as another reason why he helped us during the battle against Elidibus
I always saw Endwalker as the end of all the loose threads that plagued us through our adventures, including the Ascians, even though we haven't gotten a definite answer yet I'm gonna assume they all died, disbanded or both.
In many ways it is. It was the conclusion of the storylines started by the current teams predecessors in 1.0. Now they can truly embrace their own creativity.
Perhaps Ascians were bound to existence of Xodiark. That would explain how they were able to come back to life unless they were first sealed. Imagine Xodiark as home beacon for spiritual beings. The very entity that would keep you alive and that you worship with obsession and yearn for old times. If you remove your life supply from existence, perhaps Ascians no longer had any energy supply to keep them tied to this world... And they simply got released from Xodiarks hold after primal's destruction.
That's an interesting theory. It would account for why we haven't seen any Ascians after his death and could serve as a reason why they allowed him to stay sealed in the moon, outside of them awaiting him to be fully formed before they did unseal him.
My personal bet, is one of them is in The New World or one of the reflections building a version of the Civilization they lost but in the modern time. The thought of a modern day version of them is amazing :)
In the Pandemonium storyline, Themis did say he was Elidibus, but didn't want anyone knowing since the he was doing an investigation. Lahabrea and you knew.
Well endwalker was just completing the whole hydalin arc We haven’t even touched the acian madness yet because Amon was sundered and he was op op And funny enough lahabra was just left in that sword.
@@WyrmLimion I see him coming back, especially since we really didn’t get confirmation he has been completely vanquished, and us going to the void makes it extremely high he might pop out the ways again He and Emet Are to meaningfully to be discharged like that
Seeing as our azem is the closest thing to an ancient due to having more pieces reclaimed maybe they will recognise him somehow, I know hades and hythlo could see our soul but maybe there's another way and maybe the remaining Ascians had any relationships with him
But they were particularly strong in that aspect of their powers compared to the other ancients though. They were going to Give Hythlo a seat just based on his sensitivity, before he recommend Emet, as he was just as sensitive, but also, much more powerful.
I remember seeing that the sundered ascians are raised to their seat by the unsundered with their crystal. My assumption is that because all the unsundered are gone, there is no one left to raise the reflection souls. So I take it to mean the ones in the rift, like the masks Gaius has, will have no way out of the rift (until they do, ofc).
This is pure speculation, but in the cut scene when Hydaelyn uses her sword to split the Zodiark, there are 15 ancients there too. Now the world was split into 13 chards, so how about this theory. Every one of them became a dormant Warrior of light? Awoken by Hydaelyn after each calamity. in another earlier cut scene, she even says something like, "Humanity is strong enough."
There are many questions about this scene. Current knowledge we have states Venat had a group that together they summoned Hydaelyn to oppose Zodiark. It has people speculating that they were the group sacrificed to summon Hydaelyn, or was she already Hydaelyn in Venats form. Your theory is interesting and could be interpreted that way but also as them being mediums for the shard worlds that would take form. We have seen there are many called the Warrior of Light and not all would have been Azems reincarnated soul so this is very possible.
Everyone on the planet got split except for the Unsundered and her. The number of people there isn't relevant. They've already established that anyone who can recovers sufficient amounts of their old memories gains a fraction of the Echo. There is no "dormant Warrior of Light". Just people gaining some of their power from the time they were not sundered.
@Wait What Was I Saying? I don't think that the scene in 6.0 should be considered an actual recording of what happened at the sundering nor at the summoning of Hydaelyn, and more a narrative tool to show the point Venat fully committed to bring forth Hydaelyn.
@Wait What Was I Saying? The 6.0 scene seems like a telling of the story, rather than actual events. The scene has Venat walking through the city and seeing several events and she only reacts to them in emotion but not in action plus others don't even seem able to see her. In actual events, she would have never ignored an blasphemy appearing and killing an ascian, she would have at the very least attempted to save them. And Emet nor Hythlodaeus would have ignored Venat being there. And yet all that happened. Thus, it's not an accurate depiction of events, rather a dramatic retelling. This does not invalidate what we learned about Venat and her compatriots in 5.x stories.
Ascians remind me of Organization XIII tbh. They have matching black cloaks with hoods, meet up in a special location others normally can't reach, and use Darkness in a lot of their abilities...like the weird portals they open.
That is a popular theory with many. Realising they could not return the world to the paradise it once way and they themselves being sundered, they elect to travel to one of the reflections to begin anew. An Amaurot in the modern era.
I hope we meet some of the remaning AScians, if they still live, in the new story. Maybe they are listless, without purpose andjoin us somehow, or perhaps they do a Fandaniel and start pursuing their own Agendas and become the main threat again, or involved with the main threat (ala Heavensward). Though it might be cool to have them featured in Side Stories like the JOb Quests in ShB and Endwalker....
It should be pointed out that during the Eden Raids, it's revealed that if a Sundered Ascian dies, the Unsundered would just go looking for a replacement by looking for an incarnate shard of the felled Ascian. IIRC, Gaia even notes that she and Artemis have likely been already replaced by other soul shards of themselves even though Artemis hadn't technically died yet. So it's possible that there's another version of Gaia running around holding the seat of Logrif.
I suspect any future encounters will be more neutral. They are no longer bound by their duty from the unsundered, and I can see many of them casting aside their masks and deciding to settle down. Perhaps in our journeys we will occasionally run into a powerful mage, maybe other adventurers, weilding dark magics. We'll have a brief explanation of who they were and what they do now, nothing of huge consequence to the story, but a nice little 'Here they are, this is their fate, no longer a matter you will need to focus upon.'
My guess some of them have settled on the reflection worlds. We know many of them had their own little side projects going on, but another likely option is The New World. Maybe one of them focused on building a modern day version of their long lost civilization, comprised on average people from this era.
The only 2 ascians who can still make an appearance are Pashtarot and Halmarut...maybe 4 if you hypothesize that Gaius didn't actually kill Altima and Deudalaphon for a reason or another. But honestly, after the end of the Zodiark/Hydalein arc, I don't see the ascians holding the same kind of relevance in the plot. I can see them being more of a side content thing to just loop the loop with the few unknowns.
I had a theory that it takes one of the three Unsundered to bring back all the other ones if they are sent back to the rift. The White Aurasite just captured the souls and kind of bypassed the ability for the non-sundered ones to get brought back. As we hear near the end of Shadowbringers, while we're doing our thing with Emet Selch, the rest of the Scions are out there defeating other Ascians that he's porting in, so if my theory is right, once Emet Selch is dead I imagine that's it for bring back other Acians since Lahabrea is already gone and Elidubus has pretty much forgotten everything and is just goingon instinct. I imagine there are plenty of holes in that theory, but it semi explains why they don't just keep popping back in and annoying us without requiring the Scions to trap all of them in White Aurasite.
I am sure this was stated explicitly quite a while back (maybe even as far back as Heavensward before the lore was fully explained?) that the sundered Ascians require one of the unsundered to bring them back (not from basic body death but from a reflection). I can't remember the exact wording.
@@chrisanderson7820 Ah, so maybe it isn't a theory, I'm just remembering. ;) Either way, I think it'd be bad for the story if they keep coming back, but I think they could do something interesting with the ones who haven't "died" again who now no longer have a purpose (assuming ES sort of released them from their duty at the end of EW). Meeting one that wanted to atone for all the absolutely horrible sh!t they've been doing for millennia could have some promise.
The memory crystals of the Convocation are no longer in their possession. I believe that’s how they raise members to office with the previous memories of old they had when Unsundered. Emet-Selch tells you himself if you talk to him in the Tower that the Ascians would die out if they could no longer raise members to office. The thing with Mitron and Gaia is an exception that can’t be replicated to restore memories.
Emet-Selch had the ability to identify people by the "color" of their souls, so in my opinion he was tempered by Zodiark and had a blind spot placed upon him by Elidibus. If he knew he kept sending Azem's shards to their deaths he would stop and change course after a while. The guilt of losing both his closest friends would over take him, the loss of one as a sacrifice was one thing, never seeing another again was just as bad. Why do I point this out? As the Warrior of Light we are the same as we were in the old days as Azem, rushing off into trouble having friends follow in our wake to make sure we don't get too deep in over our heads. We are still Azem in the truest sense. The other unsundered are dead, the sundered are broken aspects of themselves, Fandaniel I doubt is the exception to this rule. Fandaniel is likely the least... balanced... of the others. The only Ascians we know specifically travelled (or rather can travel of their own power) between the Source and the shards are Elidibus and Emet-Selch. Igeyorhm is implied to have done so, however we cannot say for certain that she travelled on her own or was carried by one or the other. As we know they are still sundered and likely their fragments are still on those worlds them being there and here are definitely possible so its not an unreasonable guess that Ige was at some point merged between her 13th self and source self. Another thing we don't know is that the unsundered were not rebuilt whole, if still flawed, all their shattered parts reunited. The flashback we see does not allude to Fandaniel being rebuilt, just he source self having his memories restored. so there could still be another few copies of Hermes about. These could also be the lesser Ascians. Though it is also possible that the source Ascians are the overlords and the shard ones are the lesser ones.
You are the only one that can travel between rifts. The other 3 are dead. Their souls are in the crystal tower, gone or in the life stream. You are unsundered.
@@lindaking9064 No everybody on the source is sundered, we are 8 or maybe 9 fragments of the original being that was sundered into 14 fragments. The original fragment left on the source, plus other fragments, one for each shard returned to the source. Depending on if the fragment that was returned during the 7th calamity was merged into us or is waiting in the lifestream, its not said but I believe it was merged. Ardbert was the first's part of us, when we took his "Axe" he was returning to us, that is what that was about. That is why when Seto looked at us with his eyes shut at the end he could feel him. The three unsundered literally dodged Hydaelyn's final strike against Zodiark that sundered the world. Everybody else was sundered, or a soul on the moon trapped with Zodiark.
@@WarGiver Not everybody on the source or shards are sundered, only people who have the echo/potential to awaken the echo are reincarnated ancient souls. Hence why the scions, despite seeing a star shower courtesy of Elidibus on the first, didn't gain the echo. Also we are confirmed seven times rejoined following the 7th calamity, it is explicitly stated by Emet-Selch. "Vaunted hero of the source, seven times rejoined." As for the travelling between shards, Ascians can travel the rift but they cannot take a body with them which is why Emet-Selch was so interested in the Exarch and how we travelled to the first with our body intact, as it was something they aren't capable of. So it isn't surprising that the other sundered Ascians would also travel the rift this way. Whilst we don't know exactly how sundered are raised to their seats besides that they use the convocation crystals, it is implied they 'shed their flesh', much like Meteion encouraged Hermes to do and why the unsundered do not have their original physical bodies. This is also why full mastery of the echo allows for immortality for the Ascians. It is heavily implied in his dialogue with us, but also Emet even mentions the colour of our soul before even meeting him in the cutscene where he sits atop the castle in Lakeland. He is fully aware of who we are but also rejects the notion that we are Azem, we are just a broken husk of his friend to him. G'raha Tia also covers the subject of us being similar to Azem when he states that souls must have a personality they are predisposed to, which is why Fandaniel as Amon is a nihilist and why we are prone to wanderlust.
@@jerina3105 Ignore the lore and explanation that everybody and everything was sundered, which Emet Selch specifically stated, in the quest cut scene you can view in the Unending Journey "Return to Eulmore". That is what you are saying right? As to your comment in "the Oracle of Light" cutscene, it did not refer to color "with a soul such as that" but more to personality "mayhap there is another way. One which does not require bloodshed." In "In good faith" he recognizes Y'shtola's soul's color. So he does still have that ability. In "The Burden of Knowledge" Emet Selch states "Until one calamitous day when the world was divided across ten and three reflections, sundering the land and all who dwelled upon it. ". He stated his goal was for his world his people "For our world, for our people, for all creation to be made whole again" This is repeated in the quest line, not a cutscene, Return to in Eulmore Player Choice: Three of you escaped the sundering. But what of those who didn't...? Emet-Selch: Why, their very beings were divided into fourteen, of course. Yet by our power, we unsundered Ascians may raise up one of their fragments to their original office. (this refers to the other Ascians, like Fandaniel who when he was elevated had at minimum three fragments. It was never stated/implied/denied their other parts were readded later. Just that they were sundered) Emet-selch refers to us as incomplete in _ and that IF we survive the remaining calamities we will BECOME complete In "Hope is a flower" Hythlodaeus says that the color of our soul is almost identical to Azem's. Its close enough that Emet-Selch refers to it as *their* splitting image. This confirms that WE ARE sundered, it is stated multiple times that there are only three who are unsundered Elidibus, Emet-Selch and Lahabrea. The only real question I have is does Emet-Selch have a blind spot now preventing him from making the connection, or does he know we were Azem, or did he somehow forget the color of Azem's soul? In "Echoes of a Fallen Star" people have the Echo awakened by seeing the star shower then hear Hydaelyn. In "Travelers at the Crossroads" Venat identifies that Our Character has her enchantment "Traveller's ward" (This is the protection from the Primals) as this blessing happens after awakening the Echo, it is separate, however as there are no events of someone waking the echo and not getting the blessing...) While I can not give quotes or places to look as I recall there were points where we are told that the Echo is but a part of what we lost, and that it is awakened by a star shower (which is a memory etched on our soul.) Given that the people of the first can awaken as well it shows that even these (as Emet-Selch calls them) "Half-men" (saying they are merely 1/14th of the whole) still retain the memory... the stain... We know that there was a Star Shower over Amaurot, we see it in game, it might be that the memory is related to the people that were there when it happened, or in other similar places. Regardless what the Echo is or what it isn't, my point entirely is that we are a sundered shard of Azem, one that past Emet identifies on sight (though deeming us a familiar, and trouble by default as we relate to Azem) As to the Ascians not having their bodies, I cannot account for the unsundered, but the sundered had their bodies destroyed long ago, we know that some were awoken early on, one such was responsible for the 13th. but their world and there by body was long since destroyed, and I agree with you as it was stated that the crystals that they made to revive the sundered members of the 14. Emet Selch did make the 14th crystal behind the other's back, as he likely planned to awaken us, though he did not tell the others as he hid the crystal. This was mentioned in the very cutscene you are referring to "Etched in the Stars" So to sum up, WE are Sundered, we are an incomplete image of Azem, and Emet-Selch should know this in the present like he does in the past. But at no point does he confront us. The closest is when we first merge with Ardbert he gets a brief glimpse of it, a moment of seeing Azem as we stand before him, before he brushes it off as "a trick of the light." He cannot for some reason add together WHO we are, but he should.
@@WarGiver I think emet-selch knows who we are. But given the actions of the final days, he has a petty reaction to Azem leaving the convocation when the world is at its end. He probably despises Azem and thinks Azem abandoned their chance at salvation which "goes against azem's charge" I think it can be inferences by his interest in us in shadowbringers. He sees this shard of azem trying their best to save the denizens of the world and is curious as to just how much are we actually Azem. I would infer than we are the shard of azem that have done the most out of all other shards out there, which is why emet-selch takes an interest to us in ShB. Also why he seems to want to help us at certain points. Also of note, Hythlodaeus can also the color of our soul, and in our first meeting with him in amaourot, he calls us his new old friend.
This theory is pure conjecture, but Gaius does have access to at least 2 technologies that can be potentially adopted for ascian soul trapping. First is the heart of sabik, a type of auracite, and the synthesized version based on it. While Gaius is no longer commanding the program, he does have some knowledge of it and old contacts that he could call on. Then there is the GNB cartridge, an implement for storing aether to be used in an explosive release. So while this does not prove anything, it is not out of the realm of possibility that Gaius could have the means to unmake an ascian.
I love both of these ideas! Makes me wonder if the Heart survived the fall of the Praetorium. I hope we see more of Gaius in EW as he has many of the answers we need.
While Gaius DOES wield a gunblade, he wields a GARLEAN gunblade. The aetheric cartridges are specific to a gunbreaker's blade. Radovan mentions early in the job quests the differences, and that a garlean gunblade is little more than a sword with a gun on it, or vice-versa. The auracite thing might hold some possibilities, but consider for a moment that he's garlean, and therefore unable to actually make it. It's not impossible for him to have access to it, but slaying an ascian requires aether channeled into the auracite as well, something Gaius, as a Garlean is not capable of.
@@JShort89 We have seen him fight. In both Praetorium and the burn, his move set exceeds that of a basic gun blade a regular soldier wields. So I am assuming that he does have access to the aether enhanced version. While pure blood Garleans cannot manipulate aether themselves, they do have allies and technologies that could. Gaius travels with 2 spell casters who handle the aetherial end of things. Though again, I am not saying that he did with any kind of certainty, just that the possibility exists.
I'd like it if the remaining ascians are mostly on other shards, since that's where most of them were probably deployed to prepare for rejoining while lahabrea and igyorm prepared calamities on the source. It'd be a good way to keep them out of the picture for the time being, but allow them to help jump start any future stories that involve the shards besides the void and first. Especially if they're returning to living more like their pre-ascian selves, there's a decent chance some of them were raised from the reflection shards of their souls since the source is only one of fourteen places the unsundered could have looked for convocation members.
I'm so confused about Fandaniel, he was such an amazing character in Elpis, I felt for him, yet even after regaining memories, mabe he remembered what meteion wanted him to forget and it broke him and he didn't see the point of actually trying to do the bidding of Emet, etc...
I have high hopes for Altima considering FFT and even as a side story in 12, Altima is special. Besides maybe it's my 90s childhood but anyone who is called "the Bloody Angel" is just too cool to kill off screen. Personally I really like Gaia so I hope she returns some day.
I suspect our future escapades to other shards will have us running into the other Ascians as they were likely preoccupied with their own rejoining plans to pay too much attention to the Source during EW
Was thinking the same thing^^ There's still shards left, and who knows if they have an impending calamity that we will help stop or not. (I guess the Final Days are separate from a Calamity to make a rejoining so I have no idea what the difference is)
could it be that even though they can travel between shards. one is the (main) governor of each shard. so it is likely the ones who we haven't seen for awhile at just on other shards. we probably have more of them on ours as they completed their re-joining's of the shards we have lost
The Sundered Ascians are just so unpredictable. From what we know about them, they are reincarnated souls on either the source of their reflection, then they are gifted the memories of their first incarnation, but the essence and memory of the people they were still exists. Fandaniel/Amon is the perfect example of such, with Amon's personality and memory becoming the dominant. It could well be these Ascians were brought into the fold from the reflection worlds, and when all was said and done, they wished only to return there.
this is just super speculation on my part but as seing we didnt get any more ascian explanation in base endwalker story, i made 2 possible options of what they could be doing with sundered members of the convocation: the first one and least probable is that they will be dealth with during the "chronicles of a new Era" questine that will go trough the rest of the 6.x patch line, i dont have anything to support this and why i dont see it happening tbh my second option and the one i think could have more traction is that maybe we will have a final encounter with them in 6.3, normally the x.3 patch is used to close lose ends left in the base story of the expantion, but since 6.0 ended the whole story with minimal lose ends to deal with an inmediate urgency i think they could be planing 6.3, both the dungeon and the trial as a send off to the remaning ascians that are still here and without a clear goal now that zodiark is gone for good, this could be used as the final closure to the the story started with ARR and 1.0 and clear the area for the future expansions without the weight of this small lose ends that could end up becoming plot holes in the future
Since we have merged with Ardbert, while we don't have the memories of our Unsundered selves, the closest thing to an Ascisan that we have seen since Endwalker is us.
It would be cool to see other ascians make thier appearances or maybe even learn about thier unsundered forms. I assume all the ones not defeated on screen must still be around. Perhaps the two ascians whom gaius killed were allied with the telephoroi and were occupied reforming after thier defeat during the events of endwalker.
I always took Emet's speaking of "the last of us" to be a statment of him fully recognizing the WoL for being Azem, and thus to be an equal. (And I suppose that thought had me as thrilled as Zenos gets if you choose the "that I can't deny" option.)
@@Laerei But is Venat unsundered? According to the Watcher, Hydaelyn sundered Zodiark, herself and the star. Elidibus wasn't sundered along with Zodiark because by then he had withdrawn from Zodiark, but there is nothing that tells us Venat somehow did the same.
While Fandaniel likely couldn't kill all the outliers by himself he may have found a way to temporarily imprison them while he put his plans into play. Once Zodiark was gone they could have possibly turned into blasphemies.
Maybe even some friendly interactions with them, its one thing I really hope for! Imagine arriving in the New World and one of them is running a business or decided to become a baker and settle down with a family.
Closure of what. This ff14. Meaning many things. 14 Ascian. 14 ff’s main games. But there are 15 and soon 16. Maybe 14 beginnings and ending. We are at 8 now. 6 more To go.
20:30 Could Travanchet be an Ascian we haven’t met yet or maybe one we have? Whichever, his actions whether intentional or not, saved our timeline, twice! Was he a traitor to Ascians, was he part of Hydaelyn’s plan? Was he from an alternate timeline or shard? If he was a shard, perhaps he’s a shard of someone we know, or knew?
My question is why doesn't Emet or any of the unsundered just restore Azem's memory unto us? Through dialogue especially with Emet we know he knows we are one piece of of Azem so why not let us just have our memories restored just like he had done with Fandaniel?
The story of Azem is one of the last untold tales of the first Final Days. All we know of him his what Emet and Venat mentioned. What we do know is Azem stood opposed to the Convocation when it came to Zodiarks summoning and vacated his seat in protest. Azem also refused to take part or support the summoning of Hydaelyn. Regarding memory restoration the Ascians don't have access to Azems memories cause he never had a crystal created like the other Convocation members. The one Emet-Selch created was based on his own memories of Azem so wouldn't have been suitable for recreating him. Even if they had the means of creating Azem anew, they would be recreating an entity that stood opposed to their goals and such an entity would have presented a danger to the Ascians.
One thing is forsure though. No more ascians can be made ATM. The stones that allows them to remember their memories are gone except our stone(seat of Azem)
Given that the Scions figured out a means to end Ascians for good, really would not surprise me to learn Giaus had a means to replicate that feat but better, think about it, he had Gunblades before us, whats to say he would not be able to adapt White Auracite into his weapon, firing shards weakening them as they fought then finishing them in a similar manor to the Scions VS Hades?
That was my thought as well. Garlean gunblades are surprisingly versatile in terms of what they can fire. And Gaius is an intelligent and resourceful person so id put nothing past hi developing such on his own or taking what he needed. Maybe one day we will get the full story from him.
Given what i understand now a few years later. The last of us emet selch refers to the warrior of light. Or the reincarnation of Azem. We ARE most likely the only one remaining. Dawntrail has not featured ANY ascian whatsoever sofar. Fandaniel has not been stopped by other ascians in endwalker and even during endwalker patches. We dealt with the 13th but NO ascians came to be for even a single moment. Given emet selch CAME from the aetherial sea and still made his declaration to the last of their kind. I assume he is aware of the souls of the other ascians in the aetherial sea and given WE as Azem are the only one NOT dead. I think this is indeed the end of the ascians as a whole. Fcourse i could be wrong and this theory holds no water in future expansions. But for now i think it does. Until the devs show us another ascian. But given the zodiark/gydealyn story is over and zodiark WAS the ascians ultimate goal... i doubt we'll see any of them anytime soon if any still remain at all.
They can still bring Ascians "back". As the 3 surviving Amaurotines did with the other convocation members they might simply have created simulacrums and artificial souls which would embody the "Aspect of an Ascian". Granted they would not have the same vast souls but the motivation and knowledge.. however.. they would need to have a completely new motivation since... "Zodiark gone.. carry on..". Deudalphon and Altima might either have been destroyed by Gaius or trapped by him.. or just left the source after their body was destroyed. There is also myriad possibility of trapped minor ascians all over other reflections of the source.. even.. as we learned.. pocket dimensions full of Ascians could be around..
I think all the other Ascians have moved on or(!!Theory Time!!)they have simply decided to live a simple life on their star that they are natives of. Or maybe Fandaniel just killed them all off.
Amon/Fandaniel didn't just dissipate after the fight in the Atiascope. Asahi (the psychotic sadistic step-brother of the sadistic psychotic Yotsuyu) showed up and *dragged* Fandaniel to oblivion in revenge for "betraying Lord Zenos."
I dunno why, like call me crazy, but Ardbert did hint at the 13th star becoming the Void. More than likely, there's nothing there for us but I have a feeling that the remaining Ascians are hiding out there, biding their time for something. I originally thought Pandæmonium had to do with the Void and us hunting down the rest of the Ascians. Granted, Zodiark is gone now, but fanaticism is a lot harder to get rid of. So I feel like the ones who still remain are likely going to want revenge for their fallen comrades and Zodiark itself (unless the Overlords/minor Ascians don't care for Zodiark)
The voids a tricky subject but we know it does have form of some type due to our visit there in the Crystal Tower raid. You are not alone in thinking that about Pandaemonium, that was one of the primary theories before EW launched.
Honestly I feel all of the lesser ascians are dealt with or have abandoned their goals. Zodiark is gone, the souls sacrificed for his summoning are gone, the unsundered are gone, and the very reason for the final days and summoning of zodiark even happening is gone. The ascians have no realistic reasons to pursue any calamities/rejoinings in the future. What few are left would rightly abandon everything they worked for as it was all in vain.
Regarding Unukalhai, he was never defeated by Igeyorhm. He was one of the WoL of the 13th shard yes but he comments that he was too young still to have saved his shard. Igeyorhm defeated other WoLs but not Unukalhai. Still! Great video!
@@siyrean Yeah, iirc the 13th prior to being overrun by Darkness had multiple Warriors of Light but they were all distant from one another and couldn't/wouldn't work together.
I'm still wondering why they (the remaining ascians) simply don't work WITH the WoL and the scions after the events of Endwalker: Zodiarch is gone (no one in his right mind will summon it again and even if they do, the Wol will kick his ass again), the end of the days is no longer a threat (and will likely never be anymore), Some of the most powerful member of the ascians lords have been defeated. There's absolutly no reasons for them to still being Wol's ennemies. For the sake of survival alone. In fact their knowledge could lead the entire world in a golden age never reached even during their own time.Specially with the Wol, the scions and their descendants watching the progression of it.
You are correct, the shards that remain are the Fourth, Eighth, Ninth and Eleventh. And I have a feeling we will be visiting one of those in the near future.
@@WyrmLimion with void taking center stage I would be against each shard taking an expansion to cover. Then again we have the nation's of hydaelyn to the south, west, east and north.
that was one of my gripes with endwalker's story all the ascian overlords are essentially tempered with exception to the unsundered and Fandaniel, so they would definately have sensed the impending doom of their god and tried to stop his demise... but yet they did absolutely nothing? no hands thrown whatsoever at fandaniel or zenos lol so this leads me then to conclude that either the seventh rejoinning gave them enough memories to possibly come to the conclusion they are not necessary after the unsundered fell or they secretly deep down despised Zodiark and what he stood for. alot of them as we see throughout the story don't adhere to Elidibus hardly at all an even Elidibus himself said to Varis if he wished to kill them he wouldn't be bothered by it, suggesting then that they definately didn't hold the same views as Elidibus and were more akin to Lahabrea's extremism to push the champions of light to the brink of death in order to facilitate chaos an ensure rejoinnings happen uninterrupted. however they seem to have miscalculated Azem and Gaius' meddling the shards of Azem are stronger than most sundered people an tend to cause problems for them, and Gaius up til now had been hunting them actively and scared the overlords enough to make them think twice about attacking the source lol
There was also the thing of Nabriales, one of the overlords, simply was not supposed to be on the source. This leads me to believe that the other overlords are basically still dealing with stuff on their respective shards to work them towards a rejoining event.
I have to wonder what being tempered by Zodiark even means when Zodiark is basically just Elidibus. The primal is nothing but a hollow shell without its heart piloting it if Endwalker is any indication. And Venat appears to be fully intact when controlling Hydaelyn so it doesn't appear as though becoming the heart of a primal changes the individual at heart.
@@katiepersons6575 Its possible that in the case of Zodiark being tempered by him was more of a willing thing, compared to the tribes where it was a forced action performed by the primal thanks to the "add people to faith" clause put into the spell by the ascians. Which given the Ancient people really could not stand suffering when it came knocking on their door them turning to an all powerful creation makes perfect sense. Willfully blinding themselves to the suffering in an effort to get back their "perfect" "utopia" of a world. Which would drive many of them quite mad.
@@katiepersons6575 Actually, we can't be sure they were tempered. As explained when Scions summoned the primals to fuel the Ragnarok, the summoning taught to beast tribes was based on the spells used to summon Zodiark and Hydelyn but purposefully modified so that the primals who are summoned temper the subjects. Hence from that alone you can surmise that neither Zodiark nor Hydelyn temper souls. Hence, Ascians are not tempered by Zodiark, like Scions are not tempered by Hydaelyn.
Interesting theories. I believe they are no more. Even if they were cast into the rift only the Unsundered could return them. So Gaius only has to kill their borrowed flesh for them not to return. The sundered ascians could not elevate. Also you are forgetting about Venat's line that about the last of my kind. Taken in conjunction with Emet & Elidibus's last of us lines. Makes me believe the other Asians are no more. Venat/Hydaelyn would know if there were any active Ascians since she has been raising up warriors of light on the reflections to combat the Ascians.
I can see it now. Halmarut with a huge garden on another reflection, indulging in his old passion for plants and fungus. Or Pashtarot being major of a small city.
I don't think any of the sundered Acians that were restored to their seats merged with any of their other shards. Mitron plainly states that Emet didn't care to revert his status as a Sin Eater because he was basically disposable because Emet could just replace him with another sundered version.
@@katiepersons6575 well Emet does view any soul that is not whole as "not alive". It makes sense that the sundered Convocation aren't any different. The people he chooses and raises to their seats are given memories of their former lives as Emet remembered them. They aren't even truly reincarnations.
I wouldn't mind them popping up again for one reason or another after all if u got read nald'thal and then about the the Greek gods themid and hades it matches to that
just in the 1st miunute alone i can tell you didnt side quest... we have faced all the ascians ithat were shown inthat "throne" room style we saw in ARR, you just learn thru side quest stories of them, the only ones we dont know of are rest of the 14 convocation, but we as the WoL have effectively fought n beat over 8 ascians(including gaia) some were killed by giuas as well... so for most part they have been easily beaten by wol n others off screen rest stayed in hiding/didnt care for reawakening zodiark or live in other shards
That's an interesting idea, and would be a simple way of resolving the storylines. I personally hope not, cause I wanna see at least one of them in future.
Where did you get the belief that we are completely done with Ascians? While the Unsundered Ascians have seemingly been dealt with, I never once got the impression that we were done with the Ascians as a whole. And why would we? They are still around. They are still powerful. They still have the same goals.
One thing though: For the sundered Ascians, would they not still have shards lingering in the other unjoined worlds? Like Amon was the Source's Fandaniel, but what about the First and the rest? Moreover, technically the WoL is a Sundered Azem, so we could possibly meet our other shards in some of the other worlds should we venture there. That said, even if shards of Ascians still exist, they have no longer any reason to fight their fight with Zodiark slain and the Final Days permanently averted, thus taking their own methods of rejoining off the table. The WoL may still encounter more Azem shards and rejoin with them like they did with Ardbert in ShB, but the other ascian shards may very well just live their lives oblivious to their past unless something jogs their memory.
The remaining shards are as followed since Endwalker: The First, the Fourth, the Eighth, the Ninth, the Eleventh, and the Void(13). We have those worlds left to explore. And mind you they could be potentially dangerous due to the fact we have no allies in the unknown shards. We had an established foothold in the First thanks to G’raha.
Also, I’m not a fan of the idea of rejoining with our other soul shards because that would mean their deaths and depriving those worlds of their heroes. Also consider that makes our Dynamis interactions weaker the denser our souls become. We’re good as we are.
@@acgearsandarms1343 unless we learn how to equally balance aether and dynamis, maybe there will come a time when neither force is strong enough alone and the only way to win is to find a balance
@@bahumut01 By “balance” I need more clarification. Dynamis is stated to be much weaker than aether by normal standards. So if while it’s within our power to use, we can’t actively control it like we do aether. I don’t know how we can actively use it where as we can easily use it passively.
When Emet-Selch says "The last of us" I think he is referring to the last person alive who was present when Meteion came into contact with his sisters (the WoL)
So the thing is that ascians or rather ancient will likely return in the future. Not in the game per se but they will be definitely born anew. When Zodiark was slain, millions if not billions of unsundered ancient souls were released back to the aetherian sea. We have proof of this in Hythlodaeus who was sacrificed to Zodiark and who was freed once Zodiark was gone as we were able to call on his soul in the end. Now that will be an interesting time when they do return. Likely without memories of their era, they'll be wholly new people but immensely powerful. And they may come to reinvent creation magics anew. No doubt great villains and heroes will be born that will be unlike any that ever came before save for Warrior of Light and the three unsundered Ascians. But even the sundered people came to make creations that amazed the unsundered ancients. The crystal tower was beyond anything they had ever created, for example. Possessing powers that baffled even them, such as opening way to other worlds or even though time.
Reincarnation and Resurrection are topics I discussed recently. We still dont have a solid answer as to how it works. Death was not really a word thrown around by the Ancients, instead it was their souls and memory returning to the Aetherial Sea. The series has taught us and FFXIV to an extent that this sea is enriched by the souls and experiences of those who lived and that energy goes into the birth of new souls. What we do know is that souls reincarnate without their memory. The only reason the Ascians remained active is due to the convocation crystals which held each members experiences and memories. We are a prime example, we embody a significant portion of the soul that was Azem. But we are not Azem. His/Her memories drift in the Aetherial Sea. Regarding the reincarnation of Unsundered, it might now only apply to those 3 that died. Theory is with the sundering, that the Aetherial Sea was also sundered and is shared across the reflections. We know for a fact its expansive as we could access it in Ultima Thule. They would be the only Unsundered ancient souls left in existance. And if they were reborn, they would be children, unless they are reborn on a reflection where time works differently.
Eleb is a primal, not an Ascian. The original Eleb died creating the primal god, just as V died creating Hydalen. The Eleb we fight is nothing but a primal, with some Eleb memories dumped into it. During the crystal tower encounter his action of teleporting you to the past gives him access to "possibility memories" that he inherited from the dead Eleb. Emet, Lab and Fandanial is the only real ascians alive, until we kill them, everyone one else is not ascians, but either primal or later joining members. You are looking for this big group of people that never existed as only 3 ascians exist after the sundering. (Hydalen is a primal, not ascian with a memory dumb from an ascian.) It's like Star Trek, every time they teleport they kill the original person and create a new one. Just because it's a perfect copy doesn't change the original person died and in FFXIV we have souls, only 3 ascians souls survived to our time.
Ascians are a cult group with a set agenda. Did you mean the Ancients, which are the race from before the Sundering. Elidibus was an Ancient like all the others until his sacrifice and return, when he as you said before more of a Primal.
Emett Selch actually comments on what happened to some of the other members if you ask him about it when you first visit Rattika Forest in Shadowbringers. They were sent to other reflections to trigger rejoinings but some of them managed to get themselves defeated by heroes in those shards. Also Sundered Ascians cannot revive themselves on their own and can only be revived by another Ascian on the condition thier refection in the source is alive. If that is killed, they cannot be revived and return to the atherial sea.
It is also possible to kill an Ascian by forcing them to move from body to body. This apparently is why Lahabrea is much weaker than he should be. If its toll is that great on an unsundered Ascian then it likely be more so on an Overlord. As for the black masked ascians. Elidibus had them all launch suicide attacks when he awakened the people of the first with the power of the Echo to hear Hydaelyn. Thancred and Urainger actually wonder how many of thier "heroics" in the past have actually been Elidibus pulling this trick in the source to create "Heroes"
I honestly wouldn't put it past him, but I dont see Gaius accepting help so he would have done it behind the scenes. It was never explained how he managed to kill them.
Two things: 1. I don't think Emet-Selch was returned to the Aetherial Sea after his defeat in SB. When you are in the Tower of Babil, Hydalaen tells you there is an ally (The Watcher) which you will meet...and then says "and one other who may come into play" (paraphrase). That "one other" was, of course, Emet-Selch. She held his soul separate from the Aetherial Sea in the event that you (WOL) traveled back to Elpis and set the confluence of time in motion, thus putting Emet-Selch in play. This is further highlighted when you hear Hythlodaeus talking to someone in your dream (Baledesian Annex)...but you only hear half of the conversation. The other speaker would have been Emet-Selch. 2. The second item is that since there are no longer any unsundered. There is no one left to "transplant" souls. In essence, any remaining Ascians (minor or otherwise) are now mortal...and no longer immortal. If they die, there is no one to collect their soul and memories and place them in another vessel. Ironically, the only one with that power now would be Zenos on a personal level.
@@lindaking9064 No, we're sundered. We had to be in order to combat the pure dynamis. That was Hydaelyn's goal (a balancing act). On one hand we had to be sundered to be able to interact with the dynamis. On the other, we had to be strong enough through the aether to get to that point to fight her. The true WOL (us) doesn't really fulfill a role until just before the 7th Umbral Calamity. I'd like to know more about why we (as unsundered Azem) did not join any of the factions (Zodiark or Hydaelyn). It seems as unsundered Azem we had a percipience of the future. This is highlighted further if you did the intro to Pandemonium. When Minfilia served as the Word, she says "Seven times I have failed." (referring to the calamities). But, in truth they had to happen or the WOL would not have been strong enough to defeat the Ascians or Zodiark (having gotten a sliver of soul back with each rejoining...and then a bonus from Ardbert).
Fandaniel showed us that even the sundered Ascians can be very dangerous.
My personal guess for the next Ascian we meet is Pashtarot. I'm not even sure why. It's just a feeling.
while we shouldn't always take Yoshi-P's words as canon, He did say Deudalphon and Altima's fates are "please look forward to it" state.
If I was to hazard a guess as to where one of them would end up coming into frame again, it would be in The New World.
Any theory of your own Suikey?
@@WyrmLimion it would be hard to tell since we have seen the effects of Tempered minions either under effects of mental and physical torpor (Ga Bu) or extreme EXTREME fanaticism after their god was destroyed (any other tempered minion really). we could end up with a "what more is there to do when Lord Zodiark is gone, but Eitherys is as the same as ever just like we had before" and we "untemper" them and they live as "modern" Ancients and live their lives as the post sundering Ancients. this is my extreme day dreaming of course. In a most practical theoretical view, they would simply follow Elidibus' footsteps and just offer themselves to the aetherial sea and be reborn again, now that their charge is gone and the new age of mankind is now in full force.
then again, they might be related to the Island Sanctuary. Altima was a "crafter" convocation member, as she was an advocate of the arts. Halmarut is a plant and fungus specialist. Pashtarot is the "security" as he was the Preserver of discipline and order; while we have no idea on what Deudalphon's duty is, he seems to be on the "public affairs" side. They could have made a little space in the source where the pied their specific roles, to make a "little Amaurot" where our Azem could visit and help them.
@@youiri65 Thats a very good point and one I have been thinking about for awhile.
With Zodiark gone and their people having passed on, maybe they would found a little Amaurot as you put it to continue the Ancients legacy so that they would be remembered.
With regards to tempering im not sure any of the Overlords are tempered since they were sundered and their souls were reincarnated on the source and reflections.
Aether instability would have been resolved at that point, which is something I never mentioned in the video but would have been one of the factors that changed Emet-Selch's demeanour when we saw him in Ultima Thule.
@@WyrmLimion oh come to think of it, you're right. the Unsundered were the only ones tempered. the overlords were just...indoctrinated? after being raised into position. I guess that's why Fandaniel seems to be "detached" on the original goal of Rejoining the remaining 13 shards, and more on annihilation of everything. or how Artemis and Gaia seemed to still have time to be in a relationship despite being Mitron and Loghrif.
@@youiri65 Memory is a key part of the identity along with the soul itself. It’s kind of why souls get cleansed in the Aetherial Sea to be reborn as new people. The crystals likely impart the memory of the old Convocation to keep members loyal. Sort of making their persona lean towards to their old self. Not always the same, but so long as they’re loyal to the cause, the Unsundered keep them under control. Fandaniel is the exception, but he did inherit the old memories despite keeping his persona.
25:18
It is my belief that Emet is actually refering to Hydaelyn, the 4th Unsundered, and thusly the last of the Amaurotians to die, as well as being the one who ultimately had the plan in motion that succeeded. The live letter explains that Venat took a gamble and left a crack in her sundering of the world, in the hopes that Emet would be left unsundered; Emet happened to be with Elidibus (who had withdrawn from Zodiark by that point) and Lahabrea, which is why they both also escaped sundering. Without their part in the WoL's story, the WoL would never have reached Elpis, and the answer to the question delivered to Ultima Thule. It is for this reason I am sure Emet's answer is given out of respect to Hydaelyn, despite their differences.
Random hot take opinion. Fandaniel could have killed all the other Ascians with the intent of fostering his 'End the World' plans.
@@errorabortretry3694 Maybe the unsundered were more powerful than rejoined Overlords? I remember Fandaniel being happy when he learned all of the unsundered had died
@@errorabortretry3694 I personally don't believe this. The inferment in the post-Endwalker release interview with Yoshi where he mentioned Venat's gamble which spared Emet, Lahabrea, and Elidibus from being sundered, was that the remaining Ascians ARE around, but whether they will continue the work of Rejoining or not, when Zodiark (and his fragments in the reflections) are gone, or if they will turn their focuses to their own united or personal goals, is something that sadly we will have to wait and see on, potentially never learning.
I leave with three points from the Q&A following the 68th PLL in Feb 2022:
"Q: Will we have a chance to learn the identities of the full Convocation of Fourteen members?
A: So yes we have already decided the true names and identities of every Convocation member. Whether we will tell you or not however will depend on how the plot develops
Sorry to tease you however."
"Q: Are there Sundered Ascians other than Fandaniel or black masked Ascians of lower rank running around? I’d also like to know which Ascians those 2 red masks that Gaius carries around belong to?
A: Wow that’s really meticulous of you, you all are really paying close attention to this game. That was really a good question.
Yes I do think there are still some of the Sundered, black masks wearing Ascians running around. But those sundered Ascians however many of them there are, we can’t really say whether they are in the Source or in one of the Reflections. As for the masks that Gaius carries around, they belong to Altima and Deudalaphon. However just because he has the mask doesn’t necessarily mean that he vanquished them. So you have to come out with your own theories as to what is going on there.
We have a lot in the story so far about what it takes to truly defeat an Ascian so maybe try to think back on those things when you’re making your own theories."
"Q: Were Zodiark and Hydaelyn completely destroyed? Or there are still Sundered parts of them on other Reflections?
A: To be really frank on this one and to give you a very straight answer here, Hydaelyn was completely destroyed. Similarly, Fandaniel crushed Zodiark’s heart which is his core and that completely destroys Zodiark. There were of course parts of Zodiark in the other Reflections when he was sealed and split across all of them but at the same time of his main body was destroyed, they all would have also faded into oblivion. "
What about the hidden 15th member of the Convocation, Tataru Taru, the Overseer of Coin and Commerce? :3
Tataru Taru and her crime partner, Jar Jar Binks. The sources of dark and evil of the two worlds intertwined.
Gaia did gain some of Loghrif's memories but decided not to become her. Re-watch some of the last Eden cutscenes for proof.
Some of the dialogue options talk about her as having the abilities of an Ascian afterwards.
I think Fandanial is an example of how the other surviving Ascians likely had their own ideas about how things should be but were under the control of the 3 unsundered.
Some may be enemies while others may be allies in the future.
@Fusajiro I don't think she can just because she was a member. Because her memory was very vague in general even as Logriff. And the only way Hades and Hythlodeus knew WoL was Azem because they have the rare talent of seeing the color of souls. Not anyone can do this. That's what made them legible as being Emet-Selch.
@@lunausagi8495 Yep, they were more powerful then the other Ancients in that aspect. Hythlo almost became Emet with just his sensitivity, before he recommend the current one. So I can't see any of the other being able to tell.
Yup! She decided to move on. Thats why she says to Metron its possible they will meet again once he is born again.
Personally I think it’s okay in the story to call back to the Ascians, but not make them focal points. Endwalker went to great lengths to impress on us that their struggle and mission is over and have no inclination to continue. If any do remain, they’re no longer bound to their original goal.
The endwalker was only the end of Hydelyn and Zodark story. They never say anything more leaving it open.
@@lindaking9064 without Zodiark any plans of rejoinings is moot: it leads nowhere.
the source consumed some shards already, but it cannot succeed anymore and any hope of ressurrections of those lost at the final days of aumarot is gone.
I’d love to meet the remaining awol ascians someday, whether as allies, enemies, or on neutral ground, but please not for a while
Let us enjoy some chill adventuring again square, please
We likely will meet an NPC who is an Ascian by name only. Far removed from their practices.
*Dawntrail intensifies*
Let us enjoy some chill adventuring again Square, please.
Dawntrail: Say less, buddy.
One ennemy that would be utterly terrifying: our 13th reflection, having consummed the others and coming for our half of his soul.
@@DeathIsLethal
Patch 6.2 Spoilers!
There may be a couple of potential suspects as of 6.2...Zero and/or Golbez come to mind.
I think we'll see a few of those named Ascians on other reflections in 7.0 and beyond. Each with thier own stories and motivations. I just wonder how many of the council we could swing to Azem's line of thinking, perhaps they will be allies instead of enemies?
Honestly I think at least one of the remaining Ascians could end up being an ally in the future. Since we know so little about a pretty notable chunk of them, there is easily room to give some of them additional story to address that they were never truly onboard with Rejoinings and such, but had no chance to refuse.
@@FinnOtaku before Endwalker came out i was so sure one or two of the sundered Ascians would remain faithful to their plan and help us hunt down Fandaniel
I beleive with everything going on atm with Golbez 10 months later, im subscribing to the idea he is Golbez and that he intends to summon or become Zeromus, likely an aspect of Zodiark's full self in the same way that Fandaniel was a sundered and incomplete Ascian.
I believe that Halmarut and Deudalphon aswell as Altima are probably on the other reflections which will allow us to make Gaia a main character (and probably make eden mandatory). But I believe that content will be 8.0 at least if not 9.0
But I do believe we are now dealing with Pashtarot directly, also I have a feeling Travanchet might be Halmarut or Deudalphon, but Altima is probably going to be a nod to Ultimacia from FF8 since we didnt see her directly in Eden.
I hope we get to learn a lot more about the convocation during Pandaemonium. Perhaps we will get more of a conclusion or at least an appearance of the remaining ascians during the next expac or future patches?
Many people are expecting to see a younger Lahabrea at some point in Pandaemonium given his son is there and his connection to this place.
I hope we get to see them again, even as antagonists but I personally hope for a storyline where we are on friendly terms.
While I can appreciate having their own agendas, the final days returning and ending all life on the last living planets in the universe seems like the kind of thing everybody would prioritize dealing with before everything else. Endwalker at least should have had a throwaway line from Fandanial at least giving a vague hint as for why they weren't present.
To be fair I dont think they expected the Final Days to come back if they had reformed Zodiark. Sure it would be foolish and short sighted but I think that was the main point of Zodiark to begin with- live in blissful ignorance for as long as they can.
@@Hurley708 the final days wouldn't come back with a reformation of Zodiark, but would with his death - hence why us killing him let the final days happened
@@umbriumbrella3491 I feel like even if he was fully reformed Meteion would overpower him in the distant future when she has more dead worlds in her belt. That's if the people of Etheirys don't off themselves the same way the last species in the dead ends dungeon did.
@@Hurley708 wasnt that the whole reason why Venat sundered eitherys though? Even if they did end up making zodiarc whole again theyd still be defeated by Meteon in the end since most of them if not all just wants to go back to “paradise” “bliss” And I feel like if we never had met her when we went back in-time in Elpis shed be like everyone else.
She had to sunder the world so that man could learn to live with suffering and pain but still find the world beautiful since its not all just that. She didn’t barred us from paradise but instead we had to work for it hence “man has to walk”
Writing this it makes me remember that the whole xpac is just that, from the mantra of the Palaka people to the short scene in Garlemald with Julius accepting that the world is cruel but its still filled with beauty and its the little things that all makes it better.
@@unloyal4847 Also because the lesser aether density made the people less vulnerable to dynamis and able to utilize it themselves.
I forget at which point in SHB but Thancred said that he went around the first killing Ascians. Most likely before Vauthry trial.
They mentioned agents of the ascians a few times also, likely minor ascians but none even get screen time.
I like to this they are out there still.
Im pretty sure her(Gaia’s Ascian) memories were restored at least enough to remember Artemis but she wanted to continue living as Gaia.
With the ascians no longer being mustache twirling villains and zodiark destroyed I hope they do something interesting with the few remaining members since they can really do anything they want now
An Ascian twirling their mustache was certainly an interesting mental image for me lol
I agree with you, I hope they return in some form, or at the least we meet some of their incarnations with no Ascian memories.
I really want to know more about Lahabrea. Although he has far more screentime than any sundered, as an unsundered, he has not been done justice until I can weep and bawl my eyes out for him as I did Emet, Elidibus and Venat.
Well, we are fighting in his asylum right now, with the help of his son. So we may find out more about him. And from what we know about him, just from the first circle, I am kinda glad he went out like that. But who knows were that story is going?
thats whats asphodelos for
There's only one Ascian that we know for a fact that is active:
Us. Azem. The Fourteenth Seat.
We may not directly be an Ascian, but we have everything needed to be able to do what we've seen them do throughout the Hydaelyn-Zodiark Saga. We even have/had a memory crystal of their seat to "ascend" us to the position, and the "last of us" remark Emet-Selch made was in reference to us.
We are the last of the Convocation. We are the Last Seat. We are the final Ascian.
I think he meant Venat as the last of the ancients, just like what Elidibus in his last words, left the mantle of the last of them to her.
@Nekromanta however, by this particular point in time, Venat is also dead. Emet-Selch can't be speaking of her, because she's currently in the same boat as him and Hythlodeus: dead.
Based on Gaia's requirement to have her memories restored after her death we might be able to assume that when a sundered ascian falls, contrary to Nabriale's belief of immortality (which may reference his abilities instead), they may require aid to come back in a similar fashion to when they were first given the memories.
With the soul crystals removed from the equation giving them those memories back is now an impossibility as well.
Gaia's death may also hint that the white auracite may not act entirely as we may have been led to believe. Where it instead allows the soul to be tethered in place long enough for a strong enough blow to diminish it to the point where it cannot re-instantiate itself before returning to the aetherial sea. Stopping it from fleeing before being drained too far, per se. Without that, any weaker blows may not diminish it enough. But if you were on par with WoL at the point of shadowbringers or say Ardbert at his level it would be enough for a sundered.
We somewhat see this with Emet who was utterly beaten down. Where the auracite was used to soak up his aether rather than trapping him within it. We then proceeded to slam him with what could only be thought of as an equally intense amount of aether as he had in his own reserves left in a blast that we might be able to assume did the same to him.
There's also the possibility that the unsundered also lent their aether to the sundered to give them enough aether for their accomplishments.
With all this in mind it's fully possible that with the memory crystals now removed from the equation the aetherial sea's memory cleansing would do the rest of the deed. Those remaining would only have limited time remaining.
Of course this may all be incorrect as well, and it could be merely as simple as having defeated the unsundered we ripped out the hydra's heart, and left the remaining heads to their devices. After all, their goal is nigh unachievable now.
If I recall right and I could be mistaken.. I remember Emet, and a short story, basically saying that the Unsundered were the ones who could 'wake up' the Sundered and get them going again after they'd fallen. Get their memories back and them ready to go as it were. So with the 3 of them gone, there's no one left to 'wake up' the others who've fallen or hadn't been brought back yet and thus, they're basically in limbo forever?
I think now the reincarnated sundered Ascians are now just people. They have the souls of those members sure but without the crystals they are just people like Gaia.
You played the perfect background music.
Thank You.
I pay more attention to using the right music these days and I am glad this one turned out well.
Cant go wrong with most of the music we have access to in FF.
@@WyrmLimion The music from Elpis always reminded me of Sky Sanctuary Zone from Sonic & Knuckles.
Seems like the current Raid of Pandæmonium will hold the story for new Ascians, or reintroducing them, in some form, or perhaps it will simply give closure to the ones who were not given a second perspective, from their own past lives.
As great Endwalker was, there are still so many loose ends, and especially the lack of other Ascians, other than Fandaniel, was beyond baffling. Oh well, they could easily have light hearted adventures, before building something new up, lots of places to draw from, Omega, Dragons, from the Beyond...
Id say they will let us be us for awhile, have our adventures then when the time is right start sewing up those loose ends.
I’m not so certain. Pandæmonium seems to be focused specifically on Lahabrea seeing as it’s his responsibility, and that the other Convocation members are unaware of the situation. That’s why Themis is there at all and why Azem said to wait for someone to help with his investigation.
@@acgearsandarms1343 Azem knowing that we would be coming to help Themis makes me think Azem is us but in a distant future where we essentially retire into the past.
Regardless of that theory, Pandaemonium will probably delve into why Elidibus chose to withdraw from Zodiark rather than enforce its power to overcome Hydaelyn. Something tells me he somewhat agrees with Venat's project in "let's see if they can do what we can't" to save Etheirys
@@Hurley708 That could be, but based on his fragmented memories, his primary motive seemed to be his people and friends, IMO. For the stable time loop to be stable, I think he needs to forget us, either after Pandæmonium or during the Final Days. He can’t tell anyone about us or know anything beyond us being Azem’s familiar. There’s a few ways to explore the memory gap, but there’s a few outcomes it can go.
@@acgearsandarms1343 Kairos is pretty powerful as it can manipulate even the minds of Ancients. The sundering should leave some notable trace of it left within the source and the shards but maybe it was also used in the process of Sundering itself and is the cause of everyone forgetting?
I'd like to just say that Themis, if he is proven to be Elidibus (which he all but completely is) is already holding the seat of Elidibus during the events of Pandæmonium since earlier in Elpis during the main story both Emet-Selch and Hythlodaeus reference a moment where Azem decided to head to a volcano to stop it erupting. This is a direct reference to "Ere our Curtain Falls", a short story where Emet-Selch remembers that Elidibus told him of this event as it was about to happen.
Edit: the reason Fandaniel's shard took more from Amon than his old self as Hermes is because he already had some of his old memories. In the post-cutscene for the Aitiascope, he admits that he was haunted by nightmares that he later found out were the memories he'd tried to erase with Kairoz but were 'etched deeper into his soul'. Amon was already built on Hermes' old memories to begin with so when his other memories were added it did almost nothing to change him. Whereas with other Ascians they let the old memories overshadow the new. Understandable, since Ancients lived close to forever, so their old selves were much more established.
I could also see possible amon also having a stronger personality than Hermes had. I mean, from what we get to see from Amon as Fandaniel, he is a very strongwilled, outgoing and opiniated personality who is rather set in on what he wants. Hermes on the other hand seemed much more meager, easily influenced and weak willed. He immediately breaks upon Meteion filing her report.
First off, we defeat a different ascian based on game start location (Uldah, Limsa, Gridania) I started a character from each locations and each time the first ascian you fight is different. Then you defeat an Ascian for each job quests (at least for the majority of them that start in ARR) Then, you defeat some of them through dungeons/ trials and raids. And the only people who could raise Ascians who were sundered back to their ascian seat were the 3 unsundered. Them being gone, should, pretty much solve it. Lastly, they were all tempered by Zodiark who is gone and we do have a solution to tempering now. So if we have only a few ascians left it would be great to see a deep connecting story with some of them where at the end we dont actually kill them but turn them back to normal.
Technically only Emet as we l;earn he can look at color of the soul.
@@chungwong1010 That's my understanding too.
Techńically there is no proof that Zodiark and especially Hydaelyn ever tempered anyone. It's even especially mentioned by Yshtola that the primal summoning ritual taught by ascians was intentionally faulty to include the tempering effect. After all they were able to change it so the primals summoned to fuel the Ragnarok did not temper anyone. Thus there's no reason to believe the first primals Zodiark and Hydaelyn ever were capable of unintentionally tempering souls. I'd say, all of the ascians were untempered. Now sure there were wandering ancient souls on the moon who sure acted like they were tempered but more than likely they were just driven by their desire to save their world just like the ascians were.
I'm pretty sure that incarnation of Mitron died in the Eden raids; dissolving into blue sparkles has always marked the return to the Aetherial Sea, compared to the black soul of the Ascian escaping form the corpse back into the rift.
Because of the time differences between shards, It's possible (if unlikely) that Emmeroloth, Nabriales, Igeyorhm, Mitron and Loghrif could have been raised from a different fragment on another Shard. They would likely have zero memory events prior to their Ascension though, or memories of our prior fights with them. That would explain why we see Emmeroloth in the meeting after the destruction of the Isle of Val. Whether Emet-Selch had either the time or inclination to do so is unknown. I wouldn't be surprised if we run into them again in some form on another Shard; if nothing else, it would be nice to see Mitron and Loghrif live out their lives together on another shard, free of their obligations to the Ascians.
As for the "last of us" comment from Emet Selch - I always saw it as meaning "last of the ancients". Hydaelin (Venat) was the final ancient to die. And we have Azem's soul (and crystal), though not Azem's memories. Interesting, though, as Hydaelin calls us her beloved son/daughter at the beginning of the game. At first thought, maybe it simply means "my chosen one". But since we never meet the one whose soul we share when going back to Elpis (and whose gender changes based on our gender), and since Venat/Hydaelin was the previous Azem and refuses to euthanize herself (which is what is generally expected of the convocation members once they retire), I'm thinking - is the Azem that we share our soul with Venat's actual child? Which would be the reason why she chose us? Not just because she loves us in a "deity loving his/her faithful as children" type way, but because we are her actual child reincarnated.
she calls everyone her children though.
It was already explicitly explained on why she didn't 'return to the star' as it were. She mentioned something along the lines of for as long as mankind needed help, she couldn't leave them on their own. Which was why telling her at our final meeting with her "we will find our way, venat" has a more profound effect on her because it meant that we finally have the strength to move forward and she can finally pass on. Also, she referred to the sundered mankind as her 'children' considering she did kind of 'remade' the world into a sundered version of itself...so really, we're all her kids
During Shadowbringers Elidibus does send more Ascians out to stir up trouble among the people of Norvrandt and give the new heroes a villain to chase. The main group goes off and "deals" with them off screen. However surely there are a handful more out there. Doubtful with Zodiark gone they will be up to anything of much consequence.
I agree 100%, they must have had far more minor ascians under their wings but we never see any otherside of these few mentions of them.
My friend hoping that the end of FFXIV has something to do with a reincarnation of Emet-Selch
(He simps so hard)
It's important to note that Emet-Selch's memories are returned as soon as he returns to the aetherial sea. So some people now see that as another reason why he helped us during the battle against Elidibus
I always saw Endwalker as the end of all the loose threads that plagued us through our adventures, including the Ascians, even though we haven't gotten a definite answer yet I'm gonna assume they all died, disbanded or both.
In many ways it is. It was the conclusion of the storylines started by the current teams predecessors in 1.0.
Now they can truly embrace their own creativity.
Perhaps Ascians were bound to existence of Xodiark. That would explain how they were able to come back to life unless they were first sealed. Imagine Xodiark as home beacon for spiritual beings. The very entity that would keep you alive and that you worship with obsession and yearn for old times. If you remove your life supply from existence, perhaps Ascians no longer had any energy supply to keep them tied to this world... And they simply got released from Xodiarks hold after primal's destruction.
That's an interesting theory. It would account for why we haven't seen any Ascians after his death and could serve as a reason why they allowed him to stay sealed in the moon, outside of them awaiting him to be fully formed before they did unseal him.
With Zodiark gone and a cure for tempering found, I bet the remaining ascians will be a lot more friendly in the future
My personal bet, is one of them is in The New World or one of the reflections building a version of the Civilization they lost but in the modern time.
The thought of a modern day version of them is amazing :)
i hope we get to meet/see everyone again and be able to travel with them
In the Pandemonium storyline, Themis did say he was Elidibus, but didn't want anyone knowing since the he was doing an investigation. Lahabrea and you knew.
Well endwalker was just completing the whole hydalin arc
We haven’t even touched the acian madness yet because Amon was sundered and he was op op
And funny enough lahabra was just left in that sword.
Knowing what we know now, I'm still surprised Lahabrea was done in so easily.
@@WyrmLimion I see him coming back, especially since we really didn’t get confirmation he has been completely vanquished, and us going to the void makes it extremely high he might pop out the ways again
He and Emet Are to meaningfully to be discharged like that
Seeing as our azem is the closest thing to an ancient due to having more pieces reclaimed maybe they will recognise him somehow, I know hades and hythlo could see our soul but maybe there's another way and maybe the remaining Ascians had any relationships with him
But they were particularly strong in that aspect of their powers compared to the other ancients though. They were going to Give Hythlo a seat just based on his sensitivity, before he recommend Emet, as he was just as sensitive, but also, much more powerful.
@@hesharu Hythlo exceeded Emet in Aetherical sensitivity, actually. Not that it makes much difference.
I remember seeing that the sundered ascians are raised to their seat by the unsundered with their crystal. My assumption is that because all the unsundered are gone, there is no one left to raise the reflection souls. So I take it to mean the ones in the rift, like the masks Gaius has, will have no way out of the rift (until they do, ofc).
the rift is different from the life stream. Ascians can come and go from the rift at will it's their main source of travel
You can call all Ascian back. Because you are azem( unsundered)
This is pure speculation, but in the cut scene when Hydaelyn uses her sword to split the Zodiark, there are 15 ancients there too.
Now the world was split into 13 chards, so how about this theory.
Every one of them became a dormant Warrior of light? Awoken by Hydaelyn after each calamity.
in another earlier cut scene, she even says something like, "Humanity is strong enough."
There are many questions about this scene. Current knowledge we have states Venat had a group that together they summoned Hydaelyn to oppose Zodiark.
It has people speculating that they were the group sacrificed to summon Hydaelyn, or was she already Hydaelyn in Venats form.
Your theory is interesting and could be interpreted that way but also as them being mediums for the shard worlds that would take form.
We have seen there are many called the Warrior of Light and not all would have been Azems reincarnated soul so this is very possible.
Everyone on the planet got split except for the Unsundered and her. The number of people there isn't relevant. They've already established that anyone who can recovers sufficient amounts of their old memories gains a fraction of the Echo. There is no "dormant Warrior of Light". Just people gaining some of their power from the time they were not sundered.
@Wait What Was I Saying? Hydaelin summoning would't be possible with Venats aether alone
@Wait What Was I Saying? I don't think that the scene in 6.0 should be considered an actual recording of what happened at the sundering nor at the summoning of Hydaelyn, and more a narrative tool to show the point Venat fully committed to bring forth Hydaelyn.
@Wait What Was I Saying? The 6.0 scene seems like a telling of the story, rather than actual events. The scene has Venat walking through the city and seeing several events and she only reacts to them in emotion but not in action plus others don't even seem able to see her. In actual events, she would have never ignored an blasphemy appearing and killing an ascian, she would have at the very least attempted to save them. And Emet nor Hythlodaeus would have ignored Venat being there. And yet all that happened. Thus, it's not an accurate depiction of events, rather a dramatic retelling. This does not invalidate what we learned about Venat and her compatriots in 5.x stories.
Ascians remind me of Organization XIII tbh. They have matching black cloaks with hoods, meet up in a special location others normally can't reach, and use Darkness in a lot of their abilities...like the weird portals they open.
I could see a couple of the leftovers overtaking a reflection as their little fiefdom or just deciding to take an eternal vacation.
That is a popular theory with many.
Realising they could not return the world to the paradise it once way and they themselves being sundered, they elect to travel to one of the reflections to begin anew. An Amaurot in the modern era.
Another Wyrm lore video! I click instantly. Loving the content dude. ❤️
Thanks Ryan, hope this one was to your liking!
I hope we meet some of the remaning AScians, if they still live, in the new story. Maybe they are listless, without purpose andjoin us somehow, or perhaps they do a Fandaniel and start pursuing their own Agendas and become the main threat again, or involved with the main threat (ala Heavensward). Though it might be cool to have them featured in Side Stories like the JOb Quests in ShB and Endwalker....
I like to think hythlo is just singing “Wee all live in a sundered submarine” to emet in the sea of stars for eternity(with Elidibus on kazoo)
I expect a rouge sort of extremist type of accisans going forward not as powerful as old enemies but still dangerous
It should be pointed out that during the Eden Raids, it's revealed that if a Sundered Ascian dies, the Unsundered would just go looking for a replacement by looking for an incarnate shard of the felled Ascian. IIRC, Gaia even notes that she and Artemis have likely been already replaced by other soul shards of themselves even though Artemis hadn't technically died yet.
So it's possible that there's another version of Gaia running around holding the seat of Logrif.
I suspect any future encounters will be more neutral. They are no longer bound by their duty from the unsundered, and I can see many of them casting aside their masks and deciding to settle down. Perhaps in our journeys we will occasionally run into a powerful mage, maybe other adventurers, weilding dark magics. We'll have a brief explanation of who they were and what they do now, nothing of huge consequence to the story, but a nice little 'Here they are, this is their fate, no longer a matter you will need to focus upon.'
My guess some of them have settled on the reflection worlds. We know many of them had their own little side projects going on, but another likely option is The New World.
Maybe one of them focused on building a modern day version of their long lost civilization, comprised on average people from this era.
1. Altima is most likely a woman
2. Yoshida said losing ya mask doesn't mean ya dead. Altima could still be around
The only 2 ascians who can still make an appearance are Pashtarot and Halmarut...maybe 4 if you hypothesize that Gaius didn't actually kill Altima and Deudalaphon for a reason or another. But honestly, after the end of the Zodiark/Hydalein arc, I don't see the ascians holding the same kind of relevance in the plot. I can see them being more of a side content thing to just loop the loop with the few unknowns.
I agree with you. It would be nice to have a solid answer on their fate but I have the feeling they kept that answer blank for now for future use.
travanchet?
I had a theory that it takes one of the three Unsundered to bring back all the other ones if they are sent back to the rift. The White Aurasite just captured the souls and kind of bypassed the ability for the non-sundered ones to get brought back. As we hear near the end of Shadowbringers, while we're doing our thing with Emet Selch, the rest of the Scions are out there defeating other Ascians that he's porting in, so if my theory is right, once Emet Selch is dead I imagine that's it for bring back other Acians since Lahabrea is already gone and Elidubus has pretty much forgotten everything and is just goingon instinct. I imagine there are plenty of holes in that theory, but it semi explains why they don't just keep popping back in and annoying us without requiring the Scions to trap all of them in White Aurasite.
I am sure this was stated explicitly quite a while back (maybe even as far back as Heavensward before the lore was fully explained?) that the sundered Ascians require one of the unsundered to bring them back (not from basic body death but from a reflection). I can't remember the exact wording.
@@chrisanderson7820 Ah, so maybe it isn't a theory, I'm just remembering. ;)
Either way, I think it'd be bad for the story if they keep coming back, but I think they could do something interesting with the ones who haven't "died" again who now no longer have a purpose (assuming ES sort of released them from their duty at the end of EW). Meeting one that wanted to atone for all the absolutely horrible sh!t they've been doing for millennia could have some promise.
The memory crystals of the Convocation are no longer in their possession. I believe that’s how they raise members to office with the previous memories of old they had when Unsundered. Emet-Selch tells you himself if you talk to him in the Tower that the Ascians would die out if they could no longer raise members to office. The thing with Mitron and Gaia is an exception that can’t be replicated to restore memories.
Emet-Selch had the ability to identify people by the "color" of their souls, so in my opinion he was tempered by Zodiark and had a blind spot placed upon him by Elidibus. If he knew he kept sending Azem's shards to their deaths he would stop and change course after a while. The guilt of losing both his closest friends would over take him, the loss of one as a sacrifice was one thing, never seeing another again was just as bad.
Why do I point this out? As the Warrior of Light we are the same as we were in the old days as Azem, rushing off into trouble having friends follow in our wake to make sure we don't get too deep in over our heads. We are still Azem in the truest sense. The other unsundered are dead, the sundered are broken aspects of themselves, Fandaniel I doubt is the exception to this rule. Fandaniel is likely the least... balanced... of the others.
The only Ascians we know specifically travelled (or rather can travel of their own power) between the Source and the shards are Elidibus and Emet-Selch. Igeyorhm is implied to have done so, however we cannot say for certain that she travelled on her own or was carried by one or the other. As we know they are still sundered and likely their fragments are still on those worlds them being there and here are definitely possible so its not an unreasonable guess that Ige was at some point merged between her 13th self and source self.
Another thing we don't know is that the unsundered were not rebuilt whole, if still flawed, all their shattered parts reunited. The flashback we see does not allude to Fandaniel being rebuilt, just he source self having his memories restored. so there could still be another few copies of Hermes about. These could also be the lesser Ascians.
Though it is also possible that the source Ascians are the overlords and the shard ones are the lesser ones.
You are the only one that can travel between rifts. The other 3 are dead. Their souls are in the crystal tower, gone or in the life stream. You are unsundered.
@@lindaking9064 No everybody on the source is sundered, we are 8 or maybe 9 fragments of the original being that was sundered into 14 fragments. The original fragment left on the source, plus other fragments, one for each shard returned to the source. Depending on if the fragment that was returned during the 7th calamity was merged into us or is waiting in the lifestream, its not said but I believe it was merged. Ardbert was the first's part of us, when we took his "Axe" he was returning to us, that is what that was about. That is why when Seto looked at us with his eyes shut at the end he could feel him. The three unsundered literally dodged Hydaelyn's final strike against Zodiark that sundered the world. Everybody else was sundered, or a soul on the moon trapped with Zodiark.
@@WarGiver Not everybody on the source or shards are sundered, only people who have the echo/potential to awaken the echo are reincarnated ancient souls. Hence why the scions, despite seeing a star shower courtesy of Elidibus on the first, didn't gain the echo. Also we are confirmed seven times rejoined following the 7th calamity, it is explicitly stated by Emet-Selch. "Vaunted hero of the source, seven times rejoined."
As for the travelling between shards, Ascians can travel the rift but they cannot take a body with them which is why Emet-Selch was so interested in the Exarch and how we travelled to the first with our body intact, as it was something they aren't capable of. So it isn't surprising that the other sundered Ascians would also travel the rift this way. Whilst we don't know exactly how sundered are raised to their seats besides that they use the convocation crystals, it is implied they 'shed their flesh', much like Meteion encouraged Hermes to do and why the unsundered do not have their original physical bodies. This is also why full mastery of the echo allows for immortality for the Ascians.
It is heavily implied in his dialogue with us, but also Emet even mentions the colour of our soul before even meeting him in the cutscene where he sits atop the castle in Lakeland. He is fully aware of who we are but also rejects the notion that we are Azem, we are just a broken husk of his friend to him. G'raha Tia also covers the subject of us being similar to Azem when he states that souls must have a personality they are predisposed to, which is why Fandaniel as Amon is a nihilist and why we are prone to wanderlust.
@@jerina3105 Ignore the lore and explanation that everybody and everything was sundered, which Emet Selch specifically stated, in the quest cut scene you can view in the Unending Journey "Return to Eulmore". That is what you are saying right?
As to your comment in "the Oracle of Light" cutscene, it did not refer to color "with a soul such as that" but more to personality "mayhap there is another way. One which does not require bloodshed."
In "In good faith" he recognizes Y'shtola's soul's color. So he does still have that ability.
In "The Burden of Knowledge" Emet Selch states "Until one calamitous day when the world was divided across ten and three reflections, sundering the land and all who dwelled upon it. ". He stated his goal was for his world his people "For our world, for our people, for all creation to be made whole again"
This is repeated in the quest line, not a cutscene, Return to in Eulmore
Player Choice: Three of you escaped the sundering. But what of those who didn't...?
Emet-Selch: Why, their very beings were divided into fourteen, of course. Yet by our power, we unsundered Ascians may raise up one of their fragments to their original office. (this refers to the other Ascians, like Fandaniel who when he was elevated had at minimum three fragments. It was never stated/implied/denied their other parts were readded later. Just that they were sundered)
Emet-selch refers to us as incomplete in _ and that IF we survive the remaining calamities we will BECOME complete
In "Hope is a flower" Hythlodaeus says that the color of our soul is almost identical to Azem's. Its close enough that Emet-Selch refers to it as *their* splitting image.
This confirms that WE ARE sundered, it is stated multiple times that there are only three who are unsundered Elidibus, Emet-Selch and Lahabrea. The only real question I have is does Emet-Selch have a blind spot now preventing him from making the connection, or does he know we were Azem, or did he somehow forget the color of Azem's soul?
In "Echoes of a Fallen Star" people have the Echo awakened by seeing the star shower then hear Hydaelyn.
In "Travelers at the Crossroads" Venat identifies that Our Character has her enchantment "Traveller's ward" (This is the protection from the Primals) as this blessing happens after awakening the Echo, it is separate, however as there are no events of someone waking the echo and not getting the blessing...)
While I can not give quotes or places to look as I recall there were points where we are told that the Echo is but a part of what we lost, and that it is awakened by a star shower (which is a memory etched on our soul.) Given that the people of the first can awaken as well it shows that even these (as Emet-Selch calls them) "Half-men" (saying they are merely 1/14th of the whole) still retain the memory... the stain... We know that there was a Star Shower over Amaurot, we see it in game, it might be that the memory is related to the people that were there when it happened, or in other similar places.
Regardless what the Echo is or what it isn't, my point entirely is that we are a sundered shard of Azem, one that past Emet identifies on sight (though deeming us a familiar, and trouble by default as we relate to Azem)
As to the Ascians not having their bodies, I cannot account for the unsundered, but the sundered had their bodies destroyed long ago, we know that some were awoken early on, one such was responsible for the 13th. but their world and there by body was long since destroyed, and I agree with you as it was stated that the crystals that they made to revive the sundered members of the 14. Emet Selch did make the 14th crystal behind the other's back, as he likely planned to awaken us, though he did not tell the others as he hid the crystal. This was mentioned in the very cutscene you are referring to "Etched in the Stars"
So to sum up, WE are Sundered, we are an incomplete image of Azem, and Emet-Selch should know this in the present like he does in the past. But at no point does he confront us. The closest is when we first merge with Ardbert he gets a brief glimpse of it, a moment of seeing Azem as we stand before him, before he brushes it off as "a trick of the light." He cannot for some reason add together WHO we are, but he should.
@@WarGiver I think emet-selch knows who we are. But given the actions of the final days, he has a petty reaction to Azem leaving the convocation when the world is at its end. He probably despises Azem and thinks Azem abandoned their chance at salvation which "goes against azem's charge"
I think it can be inferences by his interest in us in shadowbringers. He sees this shard of azem trying their best to save the denizens of the world and is curious as to just how much are we actually Azem.
I would infer than we are the shard of azem that have done the most out of all other shards out there, which is why emet-selch takes an interest to us in ShB. Also why he seems to want to help us at certain points. Also of note, Hythlodaeus can also the color of our soul, and in our first meeting with him in amaourot, he calls us his new old friend.
This theory is pure conjecture, but Gaius does have access to at least 2 technologies that can be potentially adopted for ascian soul trapping. First is the heart of sabik, a type of auracite, and the synthesized version based on it. While Gaius is no longer commanding the program, he does have some knowledge of it and old contacts that he could call on. Then there is the GNB cartridge, an implement for storing aether to be used in an explosive release.
So while this does not prove anything, it is not out of the realm of possibility that Gaius could have the means to unmake an ascian.
I love both of these ideas!
Makes me wonder if the Heart survived the fall of the Praetorium.
I hope we see more of Gaius in EW as he has many of the answers we need.
While Gaius DOES wield a gunblade, he wields a GARLEAN gunblade. The aetheric cartridges are specific to a gunbreaker's blade. Radovan mentions early in the job quests the differences, and that a garlean gunblade is little more than a sword with a gun on it, or vice-versa. The auracite thing might hold some possibilities, but consider for a moment that he's garlean, and therefore unable to actually make it. It's not impossible for him to have access to it, but slaying an ascian requires aether channeled into the auracite as well, something Gaius, as a Garlean is not capable of.
@@JShort89 We have seen him fight. In both Praetorium and the burn, his move set exceeds that of a basic gun blade a regular soldier wields. So I am assuming that he does have access to the aether enhanced version.
While pure blood Garleans cannot manipulate aether themselves, they do have allies and technologies that could. Gaius travels with 2 spell casters who handle the aetherial end of things.
Though again, I am not saying that he did with any kind of certainty, just that the possibility exists.
I'd like it if the remaining ascians are mostly on other shards, since that's where most of them were probably deployed to prepare for rejoining while lahabrea and igyorm prepared calamities on the source. It'd be a good way to keep them out of the picture for the time being, but allow them to help jump start any future stories that involve the shards besides the void and first. Especially if they're returning to living more like their pre-ascian selves, there's a decent chance some of them were raised from the reflection shards of their souls since the source is only one of fourteen places the unsundered could have looked for convocation members.
I'm so confused about Fandaniel, he was such an amazing character in Elpis, I felt for him, yet even after regaining memories, mabe he remembered what meteion wanted him to forget and it broke him and he didn't see the point of actually trying to do the bidding of Emet, etc...
I have high hopes for Altima considering FFT and even as a side story in 12, Altima is special. Besides maybe it's my 90s childhood but anyone who is called "the Bloody Angel" is just too cool to kill off screen.
Personally I really like Gaia so I hope she returns some day.
I suspect our future escapades to other shards will have us running into the other Ascians as they were likely preoccupied with their own rejoining plans to pay too much attention to the Source during EW
Was thinking the same thing^^ There's still shards left, and who knows if they have an impending calamity that we will help stop or not. (I guess the Final Days are separate from a Calamity to make a rejoining so I have no idea what the difference is)
could it be that even though they can travel between shards.
one is the (main) governor of each shard.
so it is likely the ones who we haven't seen for awhile at just on other shards.
we probably have more of them on ours as they completed their re-joining's of the shards we have lost
The Sundered Ascians are just so unpredictable.
From what we know about them, they are reincarnated souls on either the source of their reflection, then they are gifted the memories of their first incarnation, but the essence and memory of the people they were still exists.
Fandaniel/Amon is the perfect example of such, with Amon's personality and memory becoming the dominant.
It could well be these Ascians were brought into the fold from the reflection worlds, and when all was said and done, they wished only to return there.
One quick addition: Emet-Selch also founded the empire of Allag.
Indeed you are correct, the man was a busy bee in his lifetimes.
this is just super speculation on my part but as seing we didnt get any more ascian explanation in base endwalker story, i made 2 possible options of what they could be doing with sundered members of the convocation:
the first one and least probable is that they will be dealth with during the "chronicles of a new Era" questine that will go trough the rest of the 6.x patch line, i dont have anything to support this and why i dont see it happening tbh
my second option and the one i think could have more traction is that maybe we will have a final encounter with them in 6.3, normally the x.3 patch is used to close lose ends left in the base story of the expantion, but since 6.0 ended the whole story with minimal lose ends to deal with an inmediate urgency i think they could be planing 6.3, both the dungeon and the trial as a send off to the remaning ascians that are still here and without a clear goal now that zodiark is gone for good, this could be used as the final closure to the the story started with ARR and 1.0 and clear the area for the future expansions without the weight of this small lose ends that could end up becoming plot holes in the future
Since we have merged with Ardbert, while we don't have the memories of our Unsundered selves, the closest thing to an Ascisan that we have seen since Endwalker is us.
Indeed, the last Ancient o/
I just realized that Hythlodaeus and Mitron probably did not get along. XD
That's an interesting thought, please elaborate :)
It would be cool to see other ascians make thier appearances or maybe even learn about thier unsundered forms. I assume all the ones not defeated on screen must still be around. Perhaps the two ascians whom gaius killed were allied with the telephoroi and were occupied reforming after thier defeat during the events of endwalker.
I always took Emet's speaking of "the last of us" to be a statment of him fully recognizing the WoL for being Azem, and thus to be an equal. (And I suppose that thought had me as thrilled as Zenos gets if you choose the "that I can't deny" option.)
Or he meant Venat and how she was the last of unsundered and also who set the events in motion that resulted in bringing him back for one last action.
@@Laerei But is Venat unsundered? According to the Watcher, Hydaelyn sundered Zodiark, herself and the star. Elidibus wasn't sundered along with Zodiark because by then he had withdrawn from Zodiark, but there is nothing that tells us Venat somehow did the same.
While Fandaniel likely couldn't kill all the outliers by himself he may have found a way to temporarily imprison them while he put his plans into play. Once Zodiark was gone they could have possibly turned into blasphemies.
Loved the discussion! I hope we get answers on the other ascians and get closure!
Maybe even some friendly interactions with them, its one thing I really hope for!
Imagine arriving in the New World and one of them is running a business or decided to become a baker and settle down with a family.
Closure of what. This ff14. Meaning many things. 14 Ascian. 14 ff’s main games. But there are 15 and soon 16. Maybe 14 beginnings and ending. We are at 8 now. 6 more To go.
20:30 Could Travanchet be an Ascian we haven’t met yet or maybe one we have? Whichever, his actions whether intentional or not, saved our timeline, twice! Was he a traitor to Ascians, was he part of Hydaelyn’s plan? Was he from an alternate timeline or shard? If he was a shard, perhaps he’s a shard of someone we know, or knew?
My question is why doesn't Emet or any of the unsundered just restore Azem's memory unto us? Through dialogue especially with Emet we know he knows we are one piece of of Azem so why not let us just have our memories restored just like he had done with Fandaniel?
The story of Azem is one of the last untold tales of the first Final Days.
All we know of him his what Emet and Venat mentioned.
What we do know is Azem stood opposed to the Convocation when it came to Zodiarks summoning and vacated his seat in protest.
Azem also refused to take part or support the summoning of Hydaelyn.
Regarding memory restoration the Ascians don't have access to Azems memories cause he never had a crystal created like the other Convocation members.
The one Emet-Selch created was based on his own memories of Azem so wouldn't have been suitable for recreating him.
Even if they had the means of creating Azem anew, they would be recreating an entity that stood opposed to their goals and such an entity would have presented a danger to the Ascians.
One thing is forsure though. No more ascians can be made ATM. The stones that allows them to remember their memories are gone except our stone(seat of Azem)
Given that the Scions figured out a means to end Ascians for good, really would not surprise me to learn Giaus had a means to replicate that feat but better, think about it, he had Gunblades before us, whats to say he would not be able to adapt White Auracite into his weapon, firing shards weakening them as they fought then finishing them in a similar manor to the Scions VS Hades?
That was my thought as well. Garlean gunblades are surprisingly versatile in terms of what they can fire.
And Gaius is an intelligent and resourceful person so id put nothing past hi developing such on his own or taking what he needed.
Maybe one day we will get the full story from him.
Given what i understand now a few years later.
The last of us emet selch refers to the warrior of light. Or the reincarnation of Azem.
We ARE most likely the only one remaining.
Dawntrail has not featured ANY ascian whatsoever sofar.
Fandaniel has not been stopped by other ascians in endwalker and even during endwalker patches. We dealt with the 13th but NO ascians came to be for even a single moment.
Given emet selch CAME from the aetherial sea and still made his declaration to the last of their kind. I assume he is aware of the souls of the other ascians in the aetherial sea and given WE as Azem are the only one NOT dead. I think this is indeed the end of the ascians as a whole.
Fcourse i could be wrong and this theory holds no water in future expansions. But for now i think it does. Until the devs show us another ascian. But given the zodiark/gydealyn story is over and zodiark WAS the ascians ultimate goal... i doubt we'll see any of them anytime soon if any still remain at all.
They can still bring Ascians "back".
As the 3 surviving Amaurotines did with the other convocation members they might simply have created simulacrums and artificial souls which would embody the "Aspect of an Ascian". Granted they would not have the same vast souls but the motivation and knowledge.. however.. they would need to have a completely new motivation since... "Zodiark gone.. carry on..".
Deudalphon and Altima might either have been destroyed by Gaius or trapped by him.. or just left the source after their body was destroyed.
There is also myriad possibility of trapped minor ascians all over other reflections of the source.. even.. as we learned.. pocket dimensions full of Ascians could be around..
I think all the other Ascians have moved on or(!!Theory Time!!)they have simply decided to live a simple life on their star that they are natives of. Or maybe Fandaniel just killed them all off.
Amon/Fandaniel didn't just dissipate after the fight in the Atiascope. Asahi (the psychotic sadistic step-brother of the sadistic psychotic Yotsuyu) showed up and *dragged* Fandaniel to oblivion in revenge for "betraying Lord Zenos."
I dunno why, like call me crazy, but Ardbert did hint at the 13th star becoming the Void. More than likely, there's nothing there for us but I have a feeling that the remaining Ascians are hiding out there, biding their time for something. I originally thought Pandæmonium had to do with the Void and us hunting down the rest of the Ascians.
Granted, Zodiark is gone now, but fanaticism is a lot harder to get rid of. So I feel like the ones who still remain are likely going to want revenge for their fallen comrades and Zodiark itself (unless the Overlords/minor Ascians don't care for Zodiark)
The voids a tricky subject but we know it does have form of some type due to our visit there in the Crystal Tower raid.
You are not alone in thinking that about Pandaemonium, that was one of the primary theories before EW launched.
Honestly I feel all of the lesser ascians are dealt with or have abandoned their goals. Zodiark is gone, the souls sacrificed for his summoning are gone, the unsundered are gone, and the very reason for the final days and summoning of zodiark even happening is gone. The ascians have no realistic reasons to pursue any calamities/rejoinings in the future. What few are left would rightly abandon everything they worked for as it was all in vain.
If one of the Ascians aren't living as a God King on one of the reflections, i'll be severely disappointed.
You are Azem the last unsundered ascan. You are alive.
Emet said you are the last of us.
Regarding Unukalhai, he was never defeated by Igeyorhm. He was one of the WoL of the 13th shard yes but he comments that he was too young still to have saved his shard. Igeyorhm defeated other WoLs but not Unukalhai. Still! Great video!
not to mention the white haired elf was also still there. Cy something
@@siyrean Yeah, iirc the 13th prior to being overrun by Darkness had multiple Warriors of Light but they were all distant from one another and couldn't/wouldn't work together.
I'm still wondering why they (the remaining ascians) simply don't work WITH the WoL and the scions after the events of Endwalker: Zodiarch is gone (no one in his right mind will summon it again and even if they do, the Wol will kick his ass again), the end of the days is no longer a threat (and will likely never be anymore), Some of the most powerful member of the ascians lords have been defeated. There's absolutly no reasons for them to still being Wol's ennemies. For the sake of survival alone. In fact their knowledge could lead the entire world in a golden age never reached even during their own time.Specially with the Wol, the scions and their descendants watching the progression of it.
Of the 13 shards 7 were destroyed 1 is the void and then we have the First. That leaves 4 left correct?
You are correct, the shards that remain are the Fourth, Eighth, Ninth and Eleventh.
And I have a feeling we will be visiting one of those in the near future.
@@WyrmLimion with void taking center stage I would be against each shard taking an expansion to cover. Then again we have the nation's of hydaelyn to the south, west, east and north.
When i first Played ff14, i was like the Ascians are some boring generic Villians and now they are my Fav Villian Group in FF.
Even inspired a band :)
that was one of my gripes with endwalker's story all the ascian overlords are essentially tempered with exception to the unsundered and Fandaniel, so they would definately have sensed the impending doom of their god and tried to stop his demise... but yet they did absolutely nothing? no hands thrown whatsoever at fandaniel or zenos lol
so this leads me then to conclude that either the seventh rejoinning gave them enough memories to possibly come to the conclusion they are not necessary after the unsundered fell or they secretly deep down despised Zodiark and what he stood for.
alot of them as we see throughout the story don't adhere to Elidibus hardly at all an even Elidibus himself said to Varis if he wished to kill them he wouldn't be bothered by it, suggesting then that they definately didn't hold the same views as Elidibus and were more akin to Lahabrea's extremism to push the champions of light to the brink of death in order to facilitate chaos an ensure rejoinnings happen uninterrupted.
however they seem to have miscalculated Azem and Gaius' meddling the shards of Azem are stronger than most sundered people an tend to cause problems for them, and Gaius up til now had been hunting them actively and scared the overlords enough to make them think twice about attacking the source lol
There was also the thing of Nabriales, one of the overlords, simply was not supposed to be on the source. This leads me to believe that the other overlords are basically still dealing with stuff on their respective shards to work them towards a rejoining event.
I have to wonder what being tempered by Zodiark even means when Zodiark is basically just Elidibus. The primal is nothing but a hollow shell without its heart piloting it if Endwalker is any indication. And Venat appears to be fully intact when controlling Hydaelyn so it doesn't appear as though becoming the heart of a primal changes the individual at heart.
@@katiepersons6575 Its possible that in the case of Zodiark being tempered by him was more of a willing thing, compared to the tribes where it was a forced action performed by the primal thanks to the "add people to faith" clause put into the spell by the ascians.
Which given the Ancient people really could not stand suffering when it came knocking on their door them turning to an all powerful creation makes perfect sense. Willfully blinding themselves to the suffering in an effort to get back their "perfect" "utopia" of a world. Which would drive many of them quite mad.
@@katiepersons6575 Actually, we can't be sure they were tempered. As explained when Scions summoned the primals to fuel the Ragnarok, the summoning taught to beast tribes was based on the spells used to summon Zodiark and Hydelyn but purposefully modified so that the primals who are summoned temper the subjects. Hence from that alone you can surmise that neither Zodiark nor Hydelyn temper souls. Hence, Ascians are not tempered by Zodiark, like Scions are not tempered by Hydaelyn.
It's been awhile since I've done it but didn't the WoL face off against an ascian in the SMN HW quests?
I think we're going to find out.
Patch quests.
Interesting theories. I believe they are no more. Even if they were cast into the rift only the Unsundered could return them. So Gaius only has to kill their borrowed flesh for them not to return. The sundered ascians could not elevate. Also you are forgetting about Venat's line that about the last of my kind. Taken in conjunction with Emet & Elidibus's last of us lines. Makes me believe the other Asians are no more. Venat/Hydaelyn would know if there were any active Ascians since she has been raising up warriors of light on the reflections to combat the Ascians.
I'm willing to bet they're causing trouble in the other reflections.
I can see it now. Halmarut with a huge garden on another reflection, indulging in his old passion for plants and fungus.
Or Pashtarot being major of a small city.
This is subject I've been mulling over. Their lack of comment about the events of EW seemed odd.
The Asians are also part of the summoner storyline
Indeed! More than any other job storyline, theirs touches upon the Ascians and also their machinations of the past.
I don't think any of the sundered Acians that were restored to their seats merged with any of their other shards. Mitron plainly states that Emet didn't care to revert his status as a Sin Eater because he was basically disposable because Emet could just replace him with another sundered version.
I really hate that line as it makes Emet seem so heartless, even to his fellow ascians.
@@katiepersons6575 well Emet does view any soul that is not whole as "not alive". It makes sense that the sundered Convocation aren't any different. The people he chooses and raises to their seats are given memories of their former lives as Emet remembered them. They aren't even truly reincarnations.
I wouldn't mind them popping up again for one reason or another after all if u got read nald'thal and then about the the Greek gods themid and hades it matches to that
i love lord videos
just in the 1st miunute alone i can tell you didnt side quest... we have faced all the ascians ithat were shown inthat "throne" room style we saw in ARR, you just learn thru side quest stories of them, the only ones we dont know of are rest of the 14 convocation, but we as the WoL have effectively fought n beat over 8 ascians(including gaia) some were killed by giuas as well... so for most part they have been easily beaten by wol n others off screen rest stayed in hiding/didnt care for reawakening zodiark or live in other shards
Did the rest die with Zodiark, since their order was tied to him in some way?
That's an interesting idea, and would be a simple way of resolving the storylines.
I personally hope not, cause I wanna see at least one of them in future.
Where did you get the belief that we are completely done with Ascians? While the Unsundered Ascians have seemingly been dealt with, I never once got the impression that we were done with the Ascians as a whole. And why would we? They are still around. They are still powerful. They still have the same goals.
Uh, why do these guys remain me of Organization 13?
I have that thought sometimes. The do tend to emulate them in various aspects.
One thing though: For the sundered Ascians, would they not still have shards lingering in the other unjoined worlds? Like Amon was the Source's Fandaniel, but what about the First and the rest? Moreover, technically the WoL is a Sundered Azem, so we could possibly meet our other shards in some of the other worlds should we venture there.
That said, even if shards of Ascians still exist, they have no longer any reason to fight their fight with Zodiark slain and the Final Days permanently averted, thus taking their own methods of rejoining off the table. The WoL may still encounter more Azem shards and rejoin with them like they did with Ardbert in ShB, but the other ascian shards may very well just live their lives oblivious to their past unless something jogs their memory.
Yeah we could meet one of our shards again from one of the surviving worlds
The remaining shards are as followed since Endwalker: The First, the Fourth, the Eighth, the Ninth, the Eleventh, and the Void(13). We have those worlds left to explore. And mind you they could be potentially dangerous due to the fact we have no allies in the unknown shards. We had an established foothold in the First thanks to G’raha.
Also, I’m not a fan of the idea of rejoining with our other soul shards because that would mean their deaths and depriving those worlds of their heroes. Also consider that makes our Dynamis interactions weaker the denser our souls become. We’re good as we are.
@@acgearsandarms1343 unless we learn how to equally balance aether and dynamis, maybe there will come a time when neither force is strong enough alone and the only way to win is to find a balance
@@bahumut01 By “balance” I need more clarification. Dynamis is stated to be much weaker than aether by normal standards. So if while it’s within our power to use, we can’t actively control it like we do aether. I don’t know how we can actively use it where as we can easily use it passively.
When Emet-Selch says "The last of us" I think he is referring to the last person alive who was present when Meteion came into contact with his sisters (the WoL)
So the thing is that ascians or rather ancient will likely return in the future. Not in the game per se but they will be definitely born anew. When Zodiark was slain, millions if not billions of unsundered ancient souls were released back to the aetherian sea. We have proof of this in Hythlodaeus who was sacrificed to Zodiark and who was freed once Zodiark was gone as we were able to call on his soul in the end.
Now that will be an interesting time when they do return. Likely without memories of their era, they'll be wholly new people but immensely powerful. And they may come to reinvent creation magics anew. No doubt great villains and heroes will be born that will be unlike any that ever came before save for Warrior of Light and the three unsundered Ascians.
But even the sundered people came to make creations that amazed the unsundered ancients. The crystal tower was beyond anything they had ever created, for example. Possessing powers that baffled even them, such as opening way to other worlds or even though time.
Reincarnation and Resurrection are topics I discussed recently.
We still dont have a solid answer as to how it works.
Death was not really a word thrown around by the Ancients, instead it was their souls and memory returning to the Aetherial Sea.
The series has taught us and FFXIV to an extent that this sea is enriched by the souls and experiences of those who lived and that energy goes into the birth of new souls.
What we do know is that souls reincarnate without their memory. The only reason the Ascians remained active is due to the convocation crystals which held each members experiences and memories.
We are a prime example, we embody a significant portion of the soul that was Azem. But we are not Azem. His/Her memories drift in the Aetherial Sea.
Regarding the reincarnation of Unsundered, it might now only apply to those 3 that died.
Theory is with the sundering, that the Aetherial Sea was also sundered and is shared across the reflections.
We know for a fact its expansive as we could access it in Ultima Thule.
They would be the only Unsundered ancient souls left in existance.
And if they were reborn, they would be children, unless they are reborn on a reflection where time works differently.
Wasn’t Altima in the 24 man raid of storm blood? Or was that Ultima?
different shard
Ivalice's Altima is a different entity, though the Ascians in FFXIV are an homage to the scions of light from FFXII.
Wasn't The Wolf hunting them all down?
Eleb is a primal, not an Ascian. The original Eleb died creating the primal god, just as V died creating Hydalen.
The Eleb we fight is nothing but a primal, with some Eleb memories dumped into it. During the crystal tower encounter his action of teleporting you to the past gives him access to "possibility memories" that he inherited from the dead Eleb.
Emet, Lab and Fandanial is the only real ascians alive, until we kill them, everyone one else is not ascians, but either primal or later joining members.
You are looking for this big group of people that never existed as only 3 ascians exist after the sundering. (Hydalen is a primal, not ascian with a memory dumb from an ascian.)
It's like Star Trek, every time they teleport they kill the original person and create a new one. Just because it's a perfect copy doesn't change the original person died and in FFXIV we have souls, only 3 ascians souls survived to our time.
Ascians are a cult group with a set agenda.
Did you mean the Ancients, which are the race from before the Sundering.
Elidibus was an Ancient like all the others until his sacrifice and return, when he as you said before more of a Primal.
Emett Selch actually comments on what happened to some of the other members if you ask him about it when you first visit Rattika Forest in Shadowbringers.
They were sent to other reflections to trigger rejoinings but some of them managed to get themselves defeated by heroes in those shards.
Also Sundered Ascians cannot revive themselves on their own and can only be revived by another Ascian on the condition thier refection in the source is alive. If that is killed, they cannot be revived and return to the atherial sea.
It is also possible to kill an Ascian by forcing them to move from body to body. This apparently is why Lahabrea is much weaker than he should be. If its toll is that great on an unsundered Ascian then it likely be more so on an Overlord.
As for the black masked ascians. Elidibus had them all launch suicide attacks when he awakened the people of the first with the power of the Echo to hear Hydaelyn.
Thancred and Urainger actually wonder how many of thier "heroics" in the past have actually been Elidibus pulling this trick in the source to create "Heroes"
What if Fandaniel helped Gaius kill those Ascians?
I honestly wouldn't put it past him, but I dont see Gaius accepting help so he would have done it behind the scenes.
It was never explained how he managed to kill them.
Two things: 1. I don't think Emet-Selch was returned to the Aetherial Sea after his defeat in SB. When you are in the Tower of Babil, Hydalaen tells you there is an ally (The Watcher) which you will meet...and then says "and one other who may come into play" (paraphrase). That "one other" was, of course, Emet-Selch. She held his soul separate from the Aetherial Sea in the event that you (WOL) traveled back to Elpis and set the confluence of time in motion, thus putting Emet-Selch in play. This is further highlighted when you hear Hythlodaeus talking to someone in your dream (Baledesian Annex)...but you only hear half of the conversation. The other speaker would have been Emet-Selch. 2. The second item is that since there are no longer any unsundered. There is no one left to "transplant" souls. In essence, any remaining Ascians (minor or otherwise) are now mortal...and no longer immortal. If they die, there is no one to collect their soul and memories and place them in another vessel. Ironically, the only one with that power now would be Zenos on a personal level.
You (WOL) the only one unsundered.
@@lindaking9064 No, we're sundered. We had to be in order to combat the pure dynamis. That was Hydaelyn's goal (a balancing act). On one hand we had to be sundered to be able to interact with the dynamis. On the other, we had to be strong enough through the aether to get to that point to fight her. The true WOL (us) doesn't really fulfill a role until just before the 7th Umbral Calamity. I'd like to know more about why we (as unsundered Azem) did not join any of the factions (Zodiark or Hydaelyn). It seems as unsundered Azem we had a percipience of the future. This is highlighted further if you did the intro to Pandemonium. When Minfilia served as the Word, she says "Seven times I have failed." (referring to the calamities). But, in truth they had to happen or the WOL would not have been strong enough to defeat the Ascians or Zodiark (having gotten a sliver of soul back with each rejoining...and then a bonus from Ardbert).