The problem here is that the UK only wants to pick the cherries but does not want to contribute. Not really a interesting partnership to look forward to for the EU. Think EU should focus on building a strong, competitive position on goods and services and look for other interesting market too. No need to invest time and effort in a UK thats only interested in maximizing its own benefits. This is the time for the EU to stand up and show its potential !
@@mogznwaz, the UK set itself up as a serious competitor just outside the EU. As a trading block the EU is protecting their members, not their competitors. But surely nobody would have expected anything else, or not?
@@mogznwaz Because it will have access anyway due to size and geographical location. The EU in itself is pretty self sustainable due to it size and internal market, the UK is NOT! They need good from EU much more than the reverse. That's why the EU has currently no checks on goods coming in, but the EU has checks and heavy paperwork from day one. Happy Fish!
What I love about this is the honourable earnestness with which these two take the idea of Johnson having a strategy, or indeed any idea about direction of any sort. He is fundamentally frivolous, admiring of mediocre figures, such as Frost, who negotiated an appalling deal, ragged with unresolved issues as well as naked betrayals, and who incapable of deep thought. Well done to both. Alignment leading to rejoin is the only resolution.
Yes, it's endearing. I suspect there are two possible explanations. First, it's the same phenomena as with Trump in the US: White old men tend to think that other white old men are intelligent and capable of strategy. Or, second, it's because they know otherwise but need to pretend that they have respect for his intellectual abilities in order to save their careers in Brexit Britain.
@Simon John man alive. Just to let you know, I have heavily edited my response to this so as not to come across as unkind. Suffice it to say, none of what you assert, beyond the first sentence, was embodied in the referendum result. We can organise the country any way we like, including making and abiding by international treaties and agreements with any country or organisation we choose. It’s a perfectly standard thing for countries to do. We can even choose to be a vassal state if we so choose. It sounds rather quaint, but whatever floats your boat.
@Simon John hopelessly phobic. You'll have noticed that the consequences of the referendum were decided upon in the meshuggonah that followed, not in the vote, culminating in the dismal cold dripping that Frost served up. I repeat, we can do what we like, including, by the way, what you suggest, but you have to make the argument, not extrapolate from a sacred vote. If you choose to make the argument using quaint medieval city-state envoisms, knock yourself out. I hope you win the right to trade wool in Flanders.
Also, imagine the situation was reversed and pound clearing was based in Amsterdam. Would the UK have been fine with that? If not, there is no argument to be had regarding Euro clearing.
What does the UK have to offer? Are you fucking thick? The UK is still the 5th largest economy in the world the EUs 3rd largest trading partner, the City of London is a global financial centre that dwarfs anything in Europe and home to 5 million EU citizens.
I remain unclear about the relationship between the USA and EU and Rogers lacks clarity also. As for the UK, attitudes towards Europe are curious if not bizarre. Liz Truss, no less, trended recently claiming that the philosophy of Michel Foucault exercised undue influence in the UK because of EU membership 😂. This animosity towards the EU has reached hysterical levels reminiscent of the weapons of mass destruction narrative under Blair.
Brexit is 100 % a separatist movement, started by England, based on lies and hate towards us Europeans .We know that a hand of crooks in England made billions from this BS scam they call ''Brexit'' , but the majority of the fo ols that suport this BS in England, should never forget that separatist movements like this lead to wars !
Brexit has turned out to be a rocket ship that never quite attained escape velocity and has now settled into a slowly decaying orbit which will inexorably be drawn back into a more highly integrated EU. The EU couldn’t have played this better. They will now have a couple of decades to put in place the regulatory infrastructure and fiscal consolidation which would have been impossible whilst the Uk were at the the table. Re entry will be entirely on the terms set by a more highly evolved and integrated EU. Euro, Schengen plus.
@R G only brexiteers “dream” of a superstate, or rather obsess about it. The rest of us don’t give a toss because it’s not on the menu. You have done grevious damage to regain a sovereignty you never lost.
@@mfmk03569 yes but only 26% of the population of UK Albeit the oldest, richest, most conservative And most likely to vote section of the mainly English majority.
As to the criticism that the EU doesn't spend a lot of thought on how to relate to some independent UK: How can one define or have a serious relation with someone who is in lala-land? The UK could not be taken seriously since Cameron announced that he wanted the completion of the common market as regards services AND no common labour rules AND no common jurisdiction AND a cap on immigration (of course without spending any thought on how that was supposed to work) - AND if the EU wouldn't oblige, the British people were likely to vote to leave in the referendum He was going to give them. But who challenged this oxymoronical nonsense?
Indeed. I have come to suspect that the problem was giving them any special deal. The message should have been: When you are in a team, you play by the same rules.
It's ironic right ? The U.K chose to leave the E.U using a lot of hostile language. It created a lot of trouble and costs for the E.U in doing so, and now he claims the E.U 'didn't spend enough thought ', etc.etc.
What's wrong with any of those demands exactly? Why should there be unlimited rights of immigration? Why does the UK have to be in the EU political project just to trade?
@@spiritualanarchist8162 "and now he claims the E.U 'didn't spend enough thought ', " . This is not a new view on the part of Rogers. He has been repeating the same thing since 2016.
Sovereignty was just a smoke screen: Basically the Tory right wing couldn't come to grips with the progressive ideals that those in Europe were inevitably heading. In a very short time the UK and its citizens will realise that the rest of Europe is leaving them behind, both socially and economically.
I think the answer is a much simpler attempt to avoid the new tax evasion, corruption and money laundering rules that came into effect this year. The only thing the EU has done as a reaction to Brexit, is to put all the UK related tax havens on their black list. Cayman Islands, Bermuda, etc. The British government seems to have gone on a spree of corruption, especially with all the Covid related spending. Those two things seem to me the biggest driving factors, if you look at what people have actually been doing since Brexit.
@@rogerwilco2 But that does not explain the long-term anti-EU voices like Bill Cash etc. Well, the misguided brain of Bill Cash who thinks the EU Commission is the government and the EU Council is the 'upper house' of the EU that is 'so undemocratic because its discussions are not public'. Pure brain fart. But then, the UK does not have proper distinction between the three branches of government, because it has no modern constitution. All above Bill Cash's intellectual powers. So much it's laughable.
I think the EU is even wondering if it's future opposite will be the United Kingdom, or that in a few years we will have *England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland* split up. I am not sure the UK still exists in a decade. That makes it really hard to have any long term strategic view. The UK doesn't seem to want to spend any political capital on any constructive agenda's. It will continue to further destabilize the relationship. There is no trust.
You've clearly not seen British bathrooms, have you? That's where the amazement at them believing themselves being an innovative and pragmatic country is faced with the reality of them being outdated, unpragmatic and unambitious is brought to bare.
The EU contemplated invoking article 16 for only one day. They had a reason to do so and it would have followed the path outlined in the NIP. In contrast the UK has contemplated article 16 or even breaking the NIP on a daily basis.
@Simon John No it is not unlawful to treat a part of the UK differently. In the UK new laws supersede old laws, and the NIP is UK law. So whenever there is a conflict, the NIP applies. In addition, the NIP has become part of international law. Newer legislation in the UK may supersede the NIP in the UK but it changes nothing of the UKs international commitments. Besides, if the UK would abolish the NIP and the GFA it would most likely lead to a border poll.
@Simon John None of these laws concern us, the government of the UK can change any of these laws, but it cannot change international law. The UK has signed the agreement and should stand by it if you expect the EU to stand by its promises too. It is UP to the UK to arrange its legislation to confirm with what you have promised. "It's because of this nonsense why the British voted to leave the EU." I agree, the UK has left because the British government is producing nonsense.
@Simon John "The referendum was clear by majority to leave the EU. That in legal jargon is NOT to live by Community law in any parts of the UK, reversing the decision made in 1975. " You wanted to leave, you have left. Fine, what is your point. "Parliament is meant to comply with the wishes of the people." It has, you have left, and if your parliament had not it would not be my problem. "There is of course a problem that 50 years of being in the EU, has corrupted our political and judicial class, who wish to remain/rejoin." Once again, not my problem, you wanted to leave, you have left. "The UK has the sovereign right to tear up any international agreement unilaterally, if necessary it likes and I could run through many of the articles of the Vienna Convention on Treaties, it has the legitimate right to use." Yes, you can but you need to notify the other side 12 month in advance. In addition, you need to live with the consequences. "I also agree, much of the result of why the UK had to leave was because of the deception, lies nonsense by all the UK political class to explain what the EEC/EU is." OK "A marriage based on lies will fail." Well, the data was out there, all the relevant documents are publicly available. "They told us it a "common market" it's about trade. The EU is not about trade, nor economics, it's about unifying the European nations under one government, the EU Commission." The commission has little power. The heads of government are meeting in the European council, that is the powerhouse of the EU.
33:00 The EU is busy with other things than thinking about a philosophical question totally irrelevant in reality, since the EU has learnt in the process of Brexit, that the UK is unreliable, irresponsible, and frankly clueless, what it wants.
I think the EU is also wondering if there will be a UK, or that we'll be talking a united Ireland and EU membership for Scotland and Wales in a few years.
Somehow the British seem to want to have both no and yes at the same time. Bit like the border between Ireland and Northern Ireland: yes but no at the same time. Not working at all.
Now, I love everything Ivan Rogers says, but on the future EU-UK foreign policy relationship, I cannot understand why he does not admit that the EU has decided, given this UK government that is unwilling to do a deal with the EU on foreign policy at all, that in order to have an EU foreign policy voice requires bringing the UK to heal by allowing the UK to find out for itself what the benefits of engaging with the EU are. The NATO is there for the back-up, as are bilateral relations. I cannot see how the EU could make the UK do a deal on security and defence at this point, because the UK has refused to negotiate. I'd rather say it's for the UK to decide what it wants.
@@mogznwaz Yes, welcome to the world of international relations. Just as the US brought the UK to heel over the Internal Market Bill. Standard practice.
I think the E.U spend more 'thought' om how to relate with the U.K, then the U.K spend thought on how to relate with it's own so-called 'independence ' .
View this whole saga as a grown up version of the Eton wall game. Utterly pointless, obtruse, and only achieves goals every 100 years or so. But at the same time, capable of sustaining the exceptionalism of Etonians relative to the rest of the world
Most Etonians like David Cameron, Osborne etc, were Remainers. The establishment, mostly Remainers. The banks and the billionaires, Remainers. It was the little people who voted for Brexit because they see none of the benefits only the negatives.
@@mogznwaz And now the " little people" like Fishermen, people employed in the food industry, etc. pp. will be even worse off. Getting screwed over by the likes of the Daily Mail, Express, Sun etc. is so much better... Plenty of "little people" had huge benefits of being part of the EU.
I think schools like Eton and its influence are a large part of the problem the UK has. It is a school that is very good at producing colonial administrators, people with the confidence to rule over a billion foreigners. But the UK does no longer need colonial overlords. It needs diplomats, and those are in short supply.
It used to be that after a draw in a football match a coin toss would decide which team advanced in a tournament. Than a Bavarian referee had the idea to let’s do penalty shootouts instead. Ever since England had a less than 50% chance to win a skill-based decision. Naturally they want to make their own rules, but they also don’t want to tell anyone what those new rules are. Not until after the game is over. You’ve got to trust in their Dunkirk spirit ... sorry, I mean Fair Play spirit. You know what I mean! ⚽️ ⚽️ ⚽️
Why do British people talk too much....you must do more instead of talking.....and also the way how you talk is also the way how your brains works and solve problems.....you really have to change this.......this is not effective at all. I only want to help....less theoretical please...But, I believe in Britain.. Am on your side.
@@Paul-tp9vf "my thoughts are grammatically correct." Classic that a Brexiter doesn't understand that RUclips is a global forum, and not Little England.
I don't think the EU is looking forward to a cherry-picking compatitor on its doorstep. From now on, we are competitors. All the nice talk about strategic common values that may form a basis for future willingness for problem solving is highly speculative, in my opinion. I hope so, but I don't think so.
Brexit is still happening a lot of our trade is in services and thats not been decided yet, cant imagine that is going to be a positive experience now we are negotiating as a third country.
@D_TEE= You express the general public sentiment inside the EU. Our staunch but difficult brother in arms (& brother in the EU) - has suddenly turned outright hostile and cannot be considered a family member anymore. We (oct. 2022) have a war at our doorstep and many other things to worry about than patching up with Britain: our relationship (if any) will essentially be aimed at safeguarding the EU interests, particularly those of the RoI. Poor Sir Ivan - making plans to patch up things with the EU and limit the consequences of the Breakup - makes me think of a hapless Civil servant discussing at a cafe terrace in Vichy on how to make the best for France after the June 1940 disaster! There will be no patching up until a new generation takes command of Britain, and that means 20 years at best. I empathize with Sir Ivan and his aims , but this Brexit business looks a bit too much like the “Parable of the Prodigal son”. Alas, in this less-Christianized Europe, the son cannot expect that the fatted calf will be killed upon his return. __ .
A lot of respect for Ivan Rogers and the interviewer One question for Rogers though. Did he support rapid eastern expansion that led to politically untenable migration flows in the UK, empowering the rightwing, and destabilised EU integration at a tender point after the single currency? Are they going to have to pursue a two-speed Europe?
Those "Eastern European migration flows" were completely the choice of the British government. Many countries in the EU, including my own Netherlands, had restrictions on immigration from the new member states for well over a decade. It was the UK government that CHOSE not to put in similar restrictions, as it would allow them access to a lot of cheap labour.
Why would the EU want a healthy UK? lol ask anyone who has gone through a bitter divorce about their ex like the prodigal son with a home to come back to the UK will keep running on one foot till they find another EU
I wish somebody could explain in non biased layman's terns what's happening with customs checks, VAT and borders. Someone said in a comment it was easier for them to order the same product from India instead of the UK. How is that possible if India is a 3rd country same as the UK?? Why are we seeing reports of shoppers being stung for unexpected extra charges? Shouldn't all charges be in the original order and invoice? Why are Britain's goods not getting through to the EU but theirs are getting through just fine to ours??? I've ordered stuff from eBay that gets shipped from China, and sure it takes a while, but I don't get landed with additional charges. WTF is going on, none of it makes any sense to me.
@@anorthedge4422 Not much of an explanation but thanks for being civil (rare on this channel). If British exporters don't know how to deal with it then that would suggest to me this is a temporary and fixable problem.
Well, I can't explain it all but I do know that the stuff you order into the UK will soon have the same checks, VAT and other difficulties. That is because those checks are not yet implemented yet. Right now, there is only checks on goods that are being exported from the UK, soon there will be checks for import too. So if you think things are bad now, wait and see, it gets worse.
In short - Brexit. Shipping companies are required to collect local VAT from your EU customers, the shipping companies also stick a handling fee on top of that due to extra paperwork, costs and return risk... I know a lot of people who have refused parcels from Britain because of the surprise fees, the parcels are then sent back to British supplier at the shipping companies cost. Everyone I know in Ireland has now stopped buying from Britain completely, e.g. We all use French and Germany Amazon instead of British one. P.S. The reason EU exports to Britain are getting through, is because British Govt hasn't put any checks in place at start of Brexit on Jan 1st. They delayed them by 6 months until July as they needed more time to prepare, it's been reported in the news that they may now need to extend this date further.
Why would the EU want a healthy UK? lol ask anyone who has gone through a bitter divorce about their ex prodigal son without a home to come back to the UK will keep running on one foot till they find another EU
Remain paid the price for failing to respond to simple questions. Like how come, in 2017, the UK's net contribution was almost TWICE that of France, Spain gave nothing and Belgium and Lux were in fact recipients? Simply "Boo, racist!" isn't good enough.
@@conor1077 please read the question PROPERLY before responding. NET contribution. (If I give a million quid then you give me back two million, then I am a NET reciever) My figures are from BBC news website btw
@@tombartram7384 apologies, I missed the net bit. Interestingly, if you break it down per capita the UK is 5th and 4th as a percentage of GDP (2017 figures).
@@conor1077 no need to say sorry but you see my point? You still haven't answered my question! This happened over and over again on tv debates. Remain also hijacked the notion of being culturally and emotionally European which irked me as I speak two continental language, French and Catalan, and two British languages, Welsh & English.
@@tombartram7384 I would say you are in the minority regarding languages on the leave side but you have a point. The whole net contributor/net recipient I find very confusing, especially the rebate. Depending on where you get your info the figures can differ. I do think too much emphasis has been put on contributions and very little on what you get for that fee.
Trouble is there’s no history of lions roaming the British landscape ? It’s just a stolen characterization from someone else’s world for reasons one can only describe as BULLSHIT !
@@colinstephenson5386 When your government threatens to do the same and there were multiple threats coming from your slimy politicians nobody in the UK was outraged. Which is to be expected from an insular tribal Little Britain.
Well every single day the UK contemplated to invoke article 16 should be valued the same. Every day the UK contemplated strait out breaking the NIP should count ten times the amount.
I would be curious about how easily could the EU actually break the UK. If it offered preferential fast track acess to the Union to Scotland? Or to other parts of the UK? If it denied all trade and investment/business to specific regions and their industries that are vocal in UK domestic politics (car industry, etc)? If it isolated the UK diplomatically, pointing it as a pariah globally and forcing other countries to pick either EU or UK to trade with (and the choice would be easy for the EU)? Overall, I wonder how weak the UK actually is, behind all the boasting (typical of weakness). COuld the EU break the UK easily? How long would it take? A simple offer to Scotland or few weeks or more?
The EU has already said that our independent Scotland will have access to all membership benefits immediately upon application to join. They state that this is because of our 'unique' circumstances.
![Cody Johnson - I'm Gonna Love You (with Carrie Underwood) [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/yy9PuYMU29g/mqdefault.jpg)
The problem here is that the UK only wants to pick the cherries but does not want to contribute. Not really a interesting partnership to look forward to for the EU. Think EU should focus on building a strong, competitive position on goods and services and look for other interesting market too. No need to invest time and effort in a UK thats only interested in maximizing its own benefits. This is the time for the EU to stand up and show its potential !
We do that !
Exactly cherry-picking, that is the word.
We’ve decided to not even go to the cherry tree.
Why does the UK think the EU is not allowed to say: Our market our rules?
...because those who are making the decisions haven't been sent to the guillotine and the rest of the world has moved forward in two hundred years.
Why is there never any mention of the EU maintaining access to the 5th largest economy in the world which is on its doorstep?
@@mogznwaz, the UK set itself up as a serious competitor just outside the EU. As a trading block the EU is protecting their members, not their competitors. But surely nobody would have expected anything else, or not?
@@mogznwaz Because it will have access anyway due to size and geographical location. The EU in itself is pretty self sustainable due to it size and internal market, the UK is NOT! They need good from EU much more than the reverse. That's why the EU has currently no checks on goods coming in, but the EU has checks and heavy paperwork from day one. Happy Fish!
@@cyberslim7955 So you're basically saying that being a big bad bully is a good thing? Very progressive.
What I love about this is the honourable earnestness with which these two take the idea of Johnson having a strategy, or indeed any idea about direction of any sort. He is fundamentally frivolous, admiring of mediocre figures, such as Frost, who negotiated an appalling deal, ragged with unresolved issues as well as naked betrayals, and who incapable of deep thought.
Well done to both.
Alignment leading to rejoin is the only resolution.
Yes, it's endearing. I suspect there are two possible explanations. First, it's the same phenomena as with Trump in the US: White old men tend to think that other white old men are intelligent and capable of strategy. Or, second, it's because they know otherwise but need to pretend that they have respect for his intellectual abilities in order to save their careers in Brexit Britain.
@Simon John man alive. Just to let you know, I have heavily edited my response to this so as not to come across as unkind. Suffice it to say, none of what you assert, beyond the first sentence, was embodied in the referendum result. We can organise the country any way we like, including making and abiding by international treaties and agreements with any country or organisation we choose. It’s a perfectly standard thing for countries to do. We can even choose to be a vassal state if we so choose. It sounds rather quaint, but whatever floats your boat.
@Simon John hopelessly phobic. You'll have noticed that the consequences of the referendum were decided upon in the meshuggonah that followed, not in the vote, culminating in the dismal cold dripping that Frost served up. I repeat, we can do what we like, including, by the way, what you suggest, but you have to make the argument, not extrapolate from a sacred vote. If you choose to make the argument using quaint medieval city-state envoisms, knock yourself out. I hope you win the right to trade wool in Flanders.
@Simon John Ok. Weird now. I think we’re done.
Why would the EU agree on equivalence? What has the UK to offer?
Why would the EU agree on equivalence? Craziness only I guess.
@@jerryorange6983 yeah, i guess that's an asset in the UK
Also, imagine the situation was reversed and pound clearing was based in Amsterdam. Would the UK have been fine with that? If not, there is no argument to be had regarding Euro clearing.
What does the UK have to offer? Are you fucking thick? The UK is still the 5th largest economy in the world the EUs 3rd largest trading partner, the City of London is a global financial centre that dwarfs anything in Europe and home to 5 million EU citizens.
Unicorns 🥴
I remain unclear about the relationship between the USA and EU and Rogers lacks clarity also. As for the UK, attitudes towards Europe are curious if not bizarre. Liz Truss, no less, trended recently claiming that the philosophy of Michel Foucault exercised undue influence in the UK because of EU membership 😂. This animosity towards the EU has reached hysterical levels reminiscent of the weapons of mass destruction narrative under Blair.
I'm seeing an awful lot of unbridled hysterical hatred of Britain too - coming from so called enlightened Remainers.
@@mogznwaz "I'm seeing an awful lot of unbridled hysterical hatred of Britain too". Brexiters see a lot of things that don't exist.
@@mogznwaz Perhaps you're hallucinating.
@@andreaoreill Ummm just a quick scan of comments on this channel illustrate my point.
Brexit is 100 % a separatist movement, started by England, based on lies and hate towards us Europeans .We know that a hand of crooks in England made billions from this BS scam they call ''Brexit'' , but the majority of the fo ols that suport this BS in England, should never forget that separatist movements like this lead to wars !
Brexit has turned out to be a rocket ship that never quite attained escape velocity and has now settled into a slowly decaying orbit which will inexorably be drawn back into a more highly integrated EU. The EU couldn’t have played this better. They will now have a couple of decades to put in place the regulatory infrastructure and fiscal consolidation which would have been impossible whilst the Uk were at the the table. Re entry will be entirely on the terms set by a more highly evolved and integrated EU. Euro, Schengen plus.
Very good comment. I hadnt thought that at all. But you are right
What the UK does not understand is that we in the EU are delighted to see the back of these arrogant people
@@mfmk03569 Only half ou us was Tory brexiteers. The thick stupid half of the population apart from the inner circle of money launderers
@R G only brexiteers “dream” of a superstate, or rather obsess about it. The rest of us don’t give a toss because it’s not on the menu. You have done grevious damage to regain a sovereignty you never lost.
@@mfmk03569 yes but only 26% of the population of UK Albeit the oldest, richest, most conservative And most likely to vote section of the mainly English majority.
As to the criticism that the EU doesn't spend a lot of thought on how to relate to some independent UK: How can one define or have a serious relation with someone who is in lala-land? The UK could not be taken seriously since Cameron announced that he wanted the completion of the common market as regards services AND no common labour rules AND no common jurisdiction AND a cap on immigration (of course without spending any thought on how that was supposed to work) - AND if the EU wouldn't oblige, the British people were likely to vote to leave in the referendum He was going to give them. But who challenged this oxymoronical nonsense?
Indeed. I have come to suspect that the problem was giving them any special deal. The message should have been: When you are in a team, you play by the same rules.
It's ironic right ? The U.K chose to leave the E.U using a lot of hostile language. It created a lot of trouble and costs for the E.U in doing so, and now he claims the E.U 'didn't spend enough thought ', etc.etc.
What's wrong with any of those demands exactly? Why should there be unlimited rights of immigration? Why does the UK have to be in the EU political project just to trade?
@@spiritualanarchist8162 "and now he claims the E.U 'didn't spend enough thought ', " . This is not a new view on the part of Rogers. He has been repeating the same thing since 2016.
@@mogznwaz because those are the rules the EU, including the UK, came up with as a sovereign decision.
Sovereignty was just a smoke screen: Basically the Tory right wing couldn't come to grips with the progressive ideals that those in Europe were inevitably heading. In a very short time the UK and its citizens will realise that the rest of Europe is leaving them behind, both socially and economically.
I think the answer is a much simpler attempt to avoid the new tax evasion, corruption and money laundering rules that came into effect this year.
The only thing the EU has done as a reaction to Brexit, is to put all the UK related tax havens on their black list. Cayman Islands, Bermuda, etc.
The British government seems to have gone on a spree of corruption, especially with all the Covid related spending.
Those two things seem to me the biggest driving factors, if you look at what people have actually been doing since Brexit.
@@rogerwilco2 But that does not explain the long-term anti-EU voices like Bill Cash etc. Well, the misguided brain of Bill Cash who thinks the EU Commission is the government and the EU Council is the 'upper house' of the EU that is 'so undemocratic because its discussions are not public'. Pure brain fart. But then, the UK does not have proper distinction between the three branches of government, because it has no modern constitution. All above Bill Cash's intellectual powers. So much it's laughable.
Follow the dirty Russian money floating into the Tory party.
I think the EU is even wondering if it's future opposite will be the United Kingdom, or that in a few years we will have *England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland* split up.
I am not sure the UK still exists in a decade.
That makes it really hard to have any long term strategic view.
The UK doesn't seem to want to spend any political capital on any constructive agenda's. It will continue to further destabilize the relationship. There is no trust.
The British fondness for strange floral wallpaper never ceases to amaze me.
Yes i thought the same thing.
In France they have floral wallpaper on their doors. So what?
Maybe a closed curtain?
You've clearly not seen British bathrooms, have you? That's where the amazement at them believing themselves being an innovative and pragmatic country is faced with the reality of them being outdated, unpragmatic and unambitious is brought to bare.
Here two years later and have always thought that too!
To me it seems the relationship between the UK and the EU will get a lot worse before it can again get better.
Hi Rolf I am sure you wanted to write "relationship", nicht wahr ?
@@minischembri9893 Thanks Mini, yes my fingers are somtimes too big for the keys on my keyboard. Dankeschön 😎
@@rolfbohme5515 Aber gerne doch :-).
The EU contemplated invoking article 16 for only one day. They had a reason to do so and it would have followed the path outlined in the NIP. In contrast the UK has contemplated article 16 or even breaking the NIP on a daily basis.
@Simon John So you wanted to abolish the GFA?
@Simon John No it is not unlawful to treat a part of the UK differently. In the UK new laws supersede old laws, and the NIP is UK law. So whenever there is a conflict, the NIP applies.
In addition, the NIP has become part of international law. Newer legislation in the UK may supersede the NIP in the UK but it changes nothing of the UKs international commitments.
Besides, if the UK would abolish the NIP and the GFA it would most likely lead to a border poll.
@Simon John Well, it was already tested in court.
Besides, it is beneficial for NI. NI has a higher growth rate than any other part of the UK.
@Simon John None of these laws concern us, the government of the UK can change any of these laws, but it cannot change international law. The UK has signed the agreement and should stand by it if you expect the EU to stand by its promises too. It is UP to the UK to arrange its legislation to confirm with what you have promised.
"It's because of this nonsense why the British voted to leave the EU."
I agree, the UK has left because the British government is producing nonsense.
@Simon John "The referendum was clear by majority to leave the EU. That in legal jargon is NOT to live by Community law in any parts of the UK, reversing the decision made in 1975. "
You wanted to leave, you have left.
Fine, what is your point.
"Parliament is meant to comply with the wishes of the people."
It has, you have left, and if your parliament had not it would not be my problem.
"There is of course a problem that 50 years of being in the EU, has corrupted our political and judicial class, who wish to remain/rejoin."
Once again, not my problem, you wanted to leave, you have left.
"The UK has the sovereign right to tear up any international agreement unilaterally, if necessary it likes and I could run through many of the articles of the Vienna Convention on Treaties, it has the legitimate right to use."
Yes, you can but you need to notify the other side 12 month in advance. In addition, you need to live with the consequences.
"I also agree, much of the result of why the UK had to leave was because of the deception, lies nonsense by all the UK political class to explain what the EEC/EU is."
OK
"A marriage based on lies will fail."
Well, the data was out there, all the relevant documents are publicly available.
"They told us it a "common market" it's about trade. The EU is not about trade, nor economics, it's about unifying the European nations under one government, the EU Commission."
The commission has little power. The heads of government are meeting in the European council, that is the powerhouse of the EU.
33:00 The EU is busy with other things than thinking about a philosophical question totally irrelevant in reality, since the EU has learnt in the process of Brexit, that the UK is unreliable, irresponsible, and frankly clueless, what it wants.
I think the EU is also wondering if there will be a UK, or that we'll be talking a united Ireland and EU membership for Scotland and Wales in a few years.
This deal as it stands is fucking startling, the long 20th century is done and Britain is kaput
Somehow the British seem to want to have both no and yes at the same time. Bit like the border between Ireland and Northern Ireland: yes but no at the same time. Not working at all.
Now, I love everything Ivan Rogers says, but on the future EU-UK foreign policy relationship, I cannot understand why he does not admit that the EU has decided, given this UK government that is unwilling to do a deal with the EU on foreign policy at all, that in order to have an EU foreign policy voice requires bringing the UK to heal by allowing the UK to find out for itself what the benefits of engaging with the EU are. The NATO is there for the back-up, as are bilateral relations. I cannot see how the EU could make the UK do a deal on security and defence at this point, because the UK has refused to negotiate. I'd rather say it's for the UK to decide what it wants.
You think the EU should bring us 'to heel'? Wow. Just wow. That does illustrate a mindset doesn't it.
@@mogznwaz Funny how a Brexiter will cherry pick a comment to find sth which is not the main point.
@@mogznwaz Yes, welcome to the world of international relations. Just as the US brought the UK to heel over the Internal Market Bill. Standard practice.
@@anorthedge4422 Brexit has always been about ego, or pride and prejudice, as sad as that is.
@@samhartford8677 Wow you folks really want to live in an Orwellian world don't you.
I was hoping for once to hear all the advantages of brexit. Again I am disappointed..,..
That’s because there are none really unless you like being an insignificant 3rd country with little to no control over EU laws and requirements.
The advantage was rich getting richer and dismantle the country
Some Irish lorries are using direct continental sailings.
Fish is happy! Ireland got much more powerful! Scottish Independence is back on the table?
You don’t have enough money in Panama or the Cayman Islands to see any advantage
It just gets worse. But thanks for the elucidation, much desired much feared.
Thank you very much!
Your party guest (the UK) just pissed in the punch bowl and insulted your wife (the EU);
now, why would you invite them back?
BoJo fiddles while London burns.
Him and Carrie are home decorating! How could you miss that!
@@benwilson6145..more likely throwing shapes in front of a mirror, prepping for a showdown !
It's amazing how in hindsight the city was so naive about its own demise
I think the E.U spend more 'thought' om how to relate with the U.K, then the U.K spend thought on how to relate with it's own so-called 'independence ' .
I think the EU is wondering if there will be a UK, or that we'll be talking a united Ireland and EU membership for Scotland and Wales in a few years.
View this whole saga as a grown up version of the Eton wall game. Utterly pointless, obtruse, and only achieves goals every 100 years or so. But at the same time, capable of sustaining the exceptionalism of Etonians relative to the rest of the world
Most Etonians like David Cameron, Osborne etc, were Remainers. The establishment, mostly Remainers. The banks and the billionaires, Remainers. It was the little people who voted for Brexit because they see none of the benefits only the negatives.
@@mogznwaz And now the " little people" like Fishermen, people employed in the food industry, etc. pp. will be even worse off. Getting screwed over by the likes of the Daily Mail, Express, Sun etc. is so much better... Plenty of "little people" had huge benefits of being part of the EU.
@@Daniel-San75 If the EU had remained the EEC then I would agree with you.
I think schools like Eton and its influence are a large part of the problem the UK has.
It is a school that is very good at producing colonial administrators, people with the confidence to rule over a billion foreigners.
But the UK does no longer need colonial overlords. It needs diplomats, and those are in short supply.
“We bet the house on a chimera”
It used to be that after a draw in a football match a coin toss would decide which team advanced in a tournament. Than a Bavarian referee had the idea to let’s do penalty shootouts instead. Ever since England had a less than 50% chance to win a skill-based decision. Naturally they want to make their own rules, but they also don’t want to tell anyone what those new rules are. Not until after the game is over. You’ve got to trust in their Dunkirk spirit ... sorry, I mean Fair Play spirit. You know what I mean! ⚽️ ⚽️ ⚽️
Why do British people talk too much....you must do more instead of talking.....and also the way how you talk is also the way how your brains works and solve problems.....you really have to change this.......this is not effective at all. I only want to help....less theoretical please...But, I believe in Britain.. Am on your side.
What do you mean Joe? Don't we need to talk, deepen understanding and collectively strategise in order to figure out what to do? (Genuine question).
I have one advantage over you; my thoughts are grammatically correct.
It’s good to talk. It’s an intellectual journey, revealing vistas and ditches. Talk , good ,intellectually honest talk, is mandatory.
@@sararichardson737 What about solving problems..
@@Paul-tp9vf "my thoughts are grammatically correct." Classic that a Brexiter doesn't understand that RUclips is a global forum, and not Little England.
A guy leaves the rugby club and now he wants the club to look after him ??
Never mind life after brexit,weve got no life.
I don't think the EU is looking forward to a cherry-picking compatitor on its doorstep. From now on, we are competitors. All the nice talk about strategic common values that may form a basis for future willingness for problem solving is highly speculative, in my opinion. I hope so, but I don't think so.
You don't seriously think that the UK could be a serious competitor to the biggest trading bloc in the world?
@@batcollins3714 No
BREXIT will destroy the peace process in Northern Ireland....
No it wont, the colony is flourishing as it's in the CU and the SM. so there are no problems. Huge amount of business between the colony and Ireland.
Brexit is still happening a lot of our trade is in services and thats not been decided yet, cant imagine that is going to be a positive experience now we are negotiating as a third country.
@D_TEE= You express the general public sentiment inside the EU. Our staunch but difficult brother in arms (& brother in the EU) - has suddenly turned outright hostile and cannot be considered a family member anymore.
We (oct. 2022) have a war at our doorstep and many other things to worry about than patching up with Britain: our relationship (if any) will essentially be aimed at safeguarding the EU interests, particularly those of the RoI.
Poor Sir Ivan - making plans to patch up things with the EU and limit the consequences of the Breakup - makes me think of a hapless Civil servant discussing at a cafe terrace in Vichy on how to make the best for France after the June 1940 disaster!
There will be no patching up until a new generation takes command of Britain, and that means 20 years at best.
I empathize with Sir Ivan and his aims , but this Brexit business looks a bit too much like the “Parable of the Prodigal son”. Alas, in this less-Christianized Europe, the son cannot expect that the fatted calf will be killed upon his return.
__ .
Send some alcohol to Rogers. He is reasonable in dealing with a bad hand to a fault. Almost automata like.
A lot of respect for Ivan Rogers and the interviewer One question for Rogers though. Did he support rapid eastern expansion that led to politically untenable migration flows in the UK, empowering the rightwing, and destabilised EU integration at a tender point after the single currency? Are they going to have to pursue a two-speed Europe?
Those "Eastern European migration flows" were completely the choice of the British government.
Many countries in the EU, including my own Netherlands, had restrictions on immigration from the new member states for well over a decade.
It was the UK government that CHOSE not to put in similar restrictions, as it would allow them access to a lot of cheap labour.
It’s fun checking in 3 years later. Your Brexit and exceptionalism is working just fine it appears. Who needs the EU, huh?
Nobody thinks its wrong to try force ireland out and cry when ireland stand up for themselves in europe .
Just listening to Rogers, it’s obvious it’s going to take decades. Guys … stop cherry picking. There’s nothing your island has to offer.
# DONT KID YOURSELF
Why would the EU want a healthy UK? lol
ask anyone who has gone through a bitter divorce about their ex
like the prodigal son with a home to come back to
the UK will keep running on one foot till they find another EU
Thx. Re City equivalence Rogers' Treasury cognitive dissonance still strong.
What do you mean by that?
Global Britain OMEGALUL
Raab said 10 years
Try 40 years instead.
I wish somebody could explain in non biased layman's terns what's happening with customs checks, VAT and borders. Someone said in a comment it was easier for them to order the same product from India instead of the UK. How is that possible if India is a 3rd country same as the UK?? Why are we seeing reports of shoppers being stung for unexpected extra charges? Shouldn't all charges be in the original order and invoice? Why are Britain's goods not getting through to the EU but theirs are getting through just fine to ours???
I've ordered stuff from eBay that gets shipped from China, and sure it takes a while, but I don't get landed with additional charges.
WTF is going on, none of it makes any sense to me.
British exporters don't know how to deal with the problem.
@@anorthedge4422 Not much of an explanation but thanks for being civil (rare on this channel). If British exporters don't know how to deal with it then that would suggest to me this is a temporary and fixable problem.
Well, I can't explain it all but I do know that the stuff you order into the UK will soon have the same checks, VAT and other difficulties. That is because those checks are not yet implemented yet. Right now, there is only checks on goods that are being exported from the UK, soon there will be checks for import too. So if you think things are bad now, wait and see, it gets worse.
In short - Brexit.
Shipping companies are required to collect local VAT from your EU customers, the shipping companies also stick a handling fee on top of that due to extra paperwork, costs and return risk...
I know a lot of people who have refused parcels from Britain because of the surprise fees, the parcels are then sent back to British supplier at the shipping companies cost.
Everyone I know in Ireland has now stopped buying from Britain completely, e.g. We all use French and Germany Amazon instead of British one.
P.S. The reason EU exports to Britain are getting through, is because British Govt hasn't put any checks in place at start of Brexit on Jan 1st. They delayed them by 6 months until July as they needed more time to prepare, it's been reported in the news that they may now need to extend this date further.
@@gruntymchunchy1527 That doesn't make any sense to me though as I don't get these fees buying in from the USA, China etc??
Why would the EU want a healthy UK? lol
ask anyone who has gone through a bitter divorce about their ex
prodigal son without a home to come back to
the UK will keep running on one foot till they find another EU
Very sorry but yeah
Britcom..
Remain paid the price for failing to respond to simple questions. Like how come, in 2017, the UK's net contribution was almost TWICE that of France, Spain gave nothing and Belgium and Lux were in fact recipients?
Simply "Boo, racist!" isn't good enough.
Where did you get that nonsense?
www.statista.com/statistics/316691/eu-budget-contributions-by-country/
@@conor1077 please read the question PROPERLY before responding.
NET contribution. (If I give a million quid then you give me back two million, then I am a NET reciever)
My figures are from BBC news website btw
@@tombartram7384 apologies, I missed the net bit. Interestingly, if you break it down per capita the UK is 5th and 4th as a percentage of GDP (2017 figures).
@@conor1077 no need to say sorry but you see my point? You still haven't answered my question!
This happened over and over again on tv debates. Remain also hijacked the notion of being culturally and emotionally European which irked me as I speak two continental language, French and Catalan, and two British languages, Welsh & English.
@@tombartram7384 I would say you are in the minority regarding languages on the leave side but you have a point.
The whole net contributor/net recipient I find very confusing, especially the rebate. Depending on where you get your info the figures can differ. I do think too much emphasis has been put on contributions and very little on what you get for that fee.
Lol
This comment section smells of shit.
And youre enjoying it though.
Britain is a lion.. Not to be subjegated but rule.
A lion with teething problems.
A lion on a floating icerock
Trouble is there’s no history of lions roaming the British landscape ? It’s just a stolen characterization from someone else’s world for reasons one can only describe as BULLSHIT !
@@colinstephenson5386 Erh... not true
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lion_and_the_Unicorn
Note the partnership
A sedated lion in a small zoo!
You misrepresent what happened regarding article 16.
He said they never went through with their decision, misrepresent you say ? In what way ?
@@colinstephenson5386 When your government threatens to do the same and there were multiple threats coming from your slimy politicians nobody in the UK was outraged. Which is to be expected from an insular tribal Little Britain.
Well every single day the UK contemplated to invoke article 16 should be valued the same. Every day the UK contemplated strait out breaking the NIP should count ten times the amount.
@@colinstephenson5386
It was a JUNIOR process that made this recommendation and it was QUASHED almost IMMEDIATELY!!
One of the best EU conversations I've heard in a long time.
I would be curious about how easily could the EU actually break the UK. If it offered preferential fast track acess to the Union to Scotland? Or to other parts of the UK? If it denied all trade and investment/business to specific regions and their industries that are vocal in UK domestic politics (car industry, etc)? If it isolated the UK diplomatically, pointing it as a pariah globally and forcing other countries to pick either EU or UK to trade with (and the choice would be easy for the EU)?
Overall, I wonder how weak the UK actually is, behind all the boasting (typical of weakness). COuld the EU break the UK easily? How long would it take? A simple offer to Scotland or few weeks or more?
The EU has already said that our independent Scotland will have access to all membership benefits immediately upon application to join. They state that this is because of our 'unique' circumstances.
Almost 3 years on, England is now considered the most successful African country.
Bravo.