Remind us how people like German born British Labour MP who was at the top table of the Leave campaign, people like Labour MPs Caroline Flint, Kate Hoey and the Labour Leave group are "upper class misanthropes".
"When I was there, you know, my instructions were nearly always to block every initiatives on defence" Sir Ivan Rogers. Actually, Brexit is the best thing that could happen to the EU. Since then, the EU has move on with more ambition, strengh and progress...
"ambition, strength and progress" like the EU's masters in Berlin and Frankfurt continuing to ship billions to Russia, financing Putin's genocide, not to mention the weapons Germany and it's sidekick France have been selling to Putin.
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Rather disappointed really. He seems to doubt that the Irish understand the issues of Northern Ireland. Does he think the English do? Ivan. Rogers also appears to think that the EU should indulge UK exceptionalism, if so he fails to understand world trade agreements. However, he does concede that the UK has a trustworthiness problem.
I listened to most of his talks and I think you got a wrong impression. He never said that the Irish do not understand the NI issue but that the EU27 might not fully feel it and having lived in Belfast for several years I can agree that nobody from outside understands it. He does not suggest EU should indulge the UK exceptionalism, I didn't get that vibe at all. He does mention that the UK might just about make it because of it's history and current position. In a way this interview can be summarized as - I know we have a crappy hand, we dealt it ourselves. but that's the best we can make playing them.
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What exactly does the EU not understand about NI? Given the UK's wish to have a different regulatory regime, which implies borders with physical checks, there are only three solutions: have border checks between NI and Ireland, have a border checks between NI and GB, or have border checks between Ireland and the rest of the EU. Between NI and Ireland is factually neigh to impossible, even without GFA, as the border communities won't have it (see gerrymandering when it was decided where exactly the border was to be). Given Ireland wasn't consulted in the run-up to the referendum and its fraught history as regards the UK (see food exports to GB while Millions were starving or emigrating), there is no way Ireland will let itself be dragged out and become the UK's appendix without any sovereignty whatsoever. So the EU's stand is: NI voted remain, the majority of the NI people are OK with the protocol, and so that's what we should do. Of course, there are those unionists who voted Brexit exactly because it would bust the GFA and who thus insist that they have the right to leave the SM. They will never be content until either the border to Ireland is re-installed or Ireland is annexed by the UK. So far, no UK government has said that this is what they want. If it is, the government should say so and not hide behind blaming the EU for allegedly busting the GFA by not accommodating the DUP and such like. Of course, there is another way out: Scotland leaves the Union, forcing NI unionists to either join England and the Crown, or a Scottish republic. As ancestry and cultural links are more with Scotland than England, this would likely result in some Celtic equivalent to Scandinavia or the Benelux countries, with close ties between Scotland, Ireland and NI. Possibly Wales would then join, too. Leaving England free to go wherever it wants to, without internal quarrels between the UK nations.
Thank you for a very interesting talk. A few comments here from Denmark of possible interest: 1) A major underlying issue is that the UK, like the US, is a quite capitalistic country with a huge banking sector and huge social differences, whereas the rest of Europe is more in favour of social democracy. This is fundamentally a cultural issue. For example, the UK middle class is perfectly willing to cast their democratic vote in favour of the upspring of upper class people, often with close ties to the banking sector, whereas people in the rest Europe would never dream of voting for such people. 2) The UK is still a more dynamic economy and leading in science and cultural products whereas the rest of Europe is still lacking behind (but perhaps gaining?). So for this reason, it makes sense that many people in the UK fail to see why the UK should tie it self to the EU (I dont blame them, but in the long I believe the EU will continue to grow and becoming stronger in many fields). 3) Also, I cannot help myself here. I am certain that everybody in the EU understand the sensitivity of the NI issue, but we just think that Boris is exploiting this sensitive issue (which he obviously is!). 4) Finally, a key point, the objective of the Brexiteers was never to just leave. The objective was and is to destroy the EU. That is what they are hoping will happen. Boris is actively trying to destabilize the EU the best he can and the EU knows this. Basically , the current UK government believes that the EU is an evil entity. It is actually as simple as that. This is the reason why the UK does not like to make agreements with the EU as a whole, since that would validate the EU. They still hope the EU will fall apart.
With regards to 1), most people in the UK don’t vote for the Tories. In 2015, only 37% voted for the Tories, meaning 63% did not. However, as we don’t have proportional representation, the system is set up such that the Tories get in more often than not and they usually enjoy 100% of the power. When a socialist became leader of Labour (Corbyn), his policies were very popular and he almost succeeded in gaining power in 2017, however, as the Tories have been in power for so long and have money and significant media influence, he didn’t succeed. Since then, the Tories have forced a reshaping of Labour to the point where they almost are an affiliate of the Tories. The Tories have so much power, money and influence, they’re pretty much mafia-like. Unless there’s fundamental democratic change in the UK (Labour & the Tories prefer the status quo, so there won’t be) nothing will change. If we did happen to get democratic change then we’d probably be more social democratic and European in our outlook. Scotland succeeding in its objective for independence may precipitate the democratic change needed in the wider UK. With regards to 4), the Brexiteers are looking for the EU to fail as: a) they hate the social democratic nature of mainland Europe and don’t want the British looking over the English Channel wondering why normal people have got a better life than they have; b) they’re desperate to reshape the world in their economic and political image (nationalist, libertarian, populist); c) crushing the EU validates Brexit; d) the constant EU ‘hate’ psychologically reinforces their Brexit ideology in the minds of British people and tries to ensure that the UK won’t return. In other words, it’s mainly aimed at a domestic audience - if you keep telling them long enough and loud enough, people will believe it.
@@northyorkshirechris5735 The 37% pretty much mirrors the brexit vote, when you take away the remain vote and the no shows, the 11 million no shows should not be dismissed as "can't be bothered" a lot of them admitted that it was too complex an issue to come down on one side or the other. I just wish that people would accept that there was never a majority in favour of brexit.
@@Paul-eb4jp There was never a Brexit majority as you say but, with many people knowing what they know now, I would say that those in favour of Brexit lessens by the day. This is why, when Rees-Mogg was interviewed on LBC, he said that had a 2nd referendum been successful, they’d have never won it. The whole thing has been a con from start to finish and leaving the EU was just about untying the hands of the Tories to enable them to impose a more drastic right-wing/authoritarian ideology on the UK we see now.
@@casteretpollux Ukraine deserve more weapons and more economic support, but I fail to see what the war in Ukraine have to do with this discussion? The very important response of the US in Ukriane (and to a lesser extent other NATO countries) is very a good thing, we agree. But no, the crisis does not back up your assessment, in my opinion. Just to be clear, I am NOT saying that the UK Brexit government wish to destroy Europe and wish for France and Germany to be destroyed. They just wish for the EU to be destroyed. Honestly, is this even worth debating? It is 100% obvious.
I would say that the reason that UK hard power isn't a meaningful lever, is because it isn't. The EU does not need the UK, when it has the US - (Arguably, it does not need either, given that it has three times the population, and 10 times the economy of Russia). But the UK is going to find it self shut out and ignored, especially since given it's geo-strategic position, desperate need to be tight with the US, and NAto membership, there isn't much belief in the UK not doing what the EU wants anyway - See Ukraine right now.
You don't seem to understand that the purpose of Brexit was to minimise formal contacts with you. You have been rejected, tried and found wanting, no longer required or desirable.
Rubbish. You do realise that there is a bigger, wider world to be found within the confines of Planet Earth? Or does the civilised & developing world end within the borders of the Carpathians, the Mediterranean, the North Sea & the English Channel? The UK knows this, and is open for anyone who wishes free/open trade.
@It`s okay. What a load of absolute RUBBISH! The EU have brought all of this upon themselves, look at what they've done to Romania, Greece, Hungary, Poland, and latterly Austria who have now seen the shysters for what they TRULY are. All the UK did was to realise that the EU were heading in one direction (towards a federal Euro super-state, an idea as crazy as it is impractical ) while the UK wanted to be free of the constraints the cartel were imposing on them, and that's why you-know-what came about. Two culture clashes heading in different directions. We simply decided that we were never going to get what we wanted within the EU, so we left. There may yet be others who get the woke factor & decide to do the same.
"change in German defence policy" how does that work? still shipping billions to Russia to finance Putin's Ukrainian genocide, along with France still selling weapons to Putin? or are you talking about the helmets sent, not sure whether they were for the Ukrainians or the Russians.
@@jasonkingshott2971 not to mention Tory’s taking donations from the ruskies & the fast tracked best mate of bozo …. Now Lord Lebedev , bozos coke dealer & party organiser , oooh no sorry not party , event organiser , what’s the Germans & the French got to do with us , bozos just been schmoozing with India ….Putins ally !
There was a missing element which surprised me back in 2017 about Theresa May's approach to the withdrawal negotiations. I understood why the EU wanted financial obligations, citizens' rights, and no border within Ireland, and I understood why May accepted that process for the negotiation, but what about defense, policing, and security cooperation? I couldn't understand it then, and I understand it less now! Why, oh why, weren't all issues affected the security of citizens on both sides hived off from the negotiations affecting merely financial matters into a separate agreement that would proceed irrespective of a No Deal or more amicable withdrawal? Were both sides really unable to see that was a mutually beneficial approach to take?
This is because of the UK wanting to leave the ECJ. Why? Because some EU countries have a constitutional block from sending their citizens to countries that do not adhere to the ECHR/are not in the EU (and therefore the EU Commission does have the authority to negotiate any such deal). This was the block at agreeing the EU warrant thing (as the UK refused to commit to even ECHR, hence there is a clause that will end all the current post-Brexit cooperation if the UK leaves tge ECHR (de facto, and the rumour is the uk government is planning to introduce legislation to that effect). Now, this (Europol & EU warrants and related databases) is mainly the extent to EU cooperation on security, all of which comes with human rights law. That is, the UK government refused to adhere to the constitutional limitations set by some EU member states (who obviously were not going to change their constitutions so that their citizens could be treated less fairly than the ECHR/EU27 require.
@Simon John Hi Simon. Will you answer something for me? Would you please tell me what you think have been the benefits to the UK of Brexit, any downsides, and whether, on balance, it has been good for the country?
A very interesting discussion. I was surprised that the constitutional tensions within the UK; the future of Northern Ireland, Scotland and the increasing democratic weakness of first past the post, did not feature.
@@ausbrum The UK has a constitution, it is based on the laws, regulations and rules that govern our institutions or regulate the relationship between the state and an individual.
As much respect as i have for Sir Ivan, i don't think he fully understands the level of utter contempt mainland Europe feels when it comes to the UK in general and the mindboggling rubbish government of the UK in particular. Then again, most Brits don't seem to understand it neither...
What the EU thinks about the UK is as relevant to me as yesterday's eggs on toast. We're no longer part of, so stand up, move along & get over it. Our (democratically elected, by the way) government has other & better things to do than keep crying over bygones, as it seems to me.
@@jamesprice4647 Are you another that wants their country run by proxy from another, and by unelected officials? Intelligence-wise, in this country, we had Oxford/Cambridge, 2 of the very best. Now it seems we've gone from colleges to cack-heads.
When Blair invaded Iraq, it proved we were still a sovereign nation whilst members of The EU. I would still happily pay my simple £120 a year of invisible money as an administration charge and membership fee to get rid of all that red tape, border hassles etc and give our young entrepreneurs and small businesses a fighting chance in Europe. Most of us didn't even notice we were members of The EU until Farage and Johnson came along and told us we were.
Minute 12: "We are not giving the Ukraine more anti-tanks weapons unless we get ..." What sort of creature thinks that way? There seems to be little below Albion Perfide!
Listening to these two reminds me about my distant relative. Once they were rich and owned several factories. Over the decades of bad decision making they lost most of the fortune but held on to one factory that made bullets and guns. The owner would go to the gang leaders and propose to sell his bullets to the rival gang. If they chose not to buy. Always negotiating with fake bravado and creating a need for his products even when not needed. No wonder the guest has a honorary title from the monarchy who have for centuries been about dividing and not uniting this world. The future of the divided Europe is clear, fractious but the EU will prosper. But there is no clear path for British success even in the next five decades. It will keep shrinking in its global influence. For more than century, the world has done just fine without the Brits on the center stage and now they will be gone from the Europe stage too. But then how can you blame EU for that. When you have so many incompetent people like this guest are presented as the finest of the UK., one can easily realize that Britain is now fourth-rate power after the US, China and Europe.
Predicting the future is unwise . Yet , “events dear boy , events” could see the U.K. rejoining the EU sooner than current circumstances allow. Economic circumstances may force it .
There's no support within the EU for the UK to rejoin the EU. I'm pretty sure, the big players in the EU are very happy the UK is no longer a member. The UK has always been an obstacle in most areas, politically, economically and militarily.
My God, there's one on every corner. An idiot, I mean. They're like buses here, if you miss one, don't worry, there's another one on the way. The UK will NEVER sign up to that CARTEL not now, tomorrow, or ever. We make our own trade deals now, with whomsoever we want, not what the effing CARTEL tell us to do, some examples: China, India, the USA, Canada, Australia, Africa, Switzerland, Norway, The CPTPP and whomsoever else we may choose of our own free will.
Too late English majority remain. Scotland is leaving you to join the EU. Possibly as a direct result of the lack of diversity in Jubilee crowds over last weekend as a new Scottish republic.
I am a proud Brexiter. However I would never have voted to leave a free trade zone. The EU is not a free trade zone, it is an empire building enterprise that uses the threat of removing free trade in order to achieve it’s aims. They speak of “States” not countries. Once we saw the arrival of a currency, flag and anthem I knew it was time to break free. How long to EU wide taxation and spending, EU army? I think Brexit may turn out to be damaging financially but this is the price to pay for political independence.
So when will you leave the United nations. It also has a flag, rules that takes away "sovereignity" and an "army". Not to forget Hymn of the United Nations.
And for the same reason 63 other countries broke away from the British Empire. It is about time Brits get the taste of their medicine. Yes it taste bitter and they earned it. There is no hope for Brits in this generation and the next.
Sir ivan is laying out bases for the UK to rejoin the eu....at 83 years of age I wont be around tosee it but send me a telegram when it happens. David McCabe Dublin Ireland
He's just contemplating the consequences that Brexiteers made. It's not remoaning, given he has never been supportive of staying in the single market or the customs union. It's just that one has to go ahead with the mistakes the UK government made in the negotiations.
The good thing about Brexit is that a country that is run by upper class misanthropes has weakened its international influence.
Remind us how people like German born British Labour MP who was at the top table of the Leave campaign, people like Labour MPs Caroline Flint, Kate Hoey and the Labour Leave group are "upper class misanthropes".
@@jasonkingshott2971 There are always exceptions, but the genral point was correct.
@@Paul-eb4jp If you are going to contribute, how about Answering the question?
@@Paul-eb4jp Were you a character in David Brent's, The Office?
@@jasonkingshott2971 Silly comment.
"When I was there, you know, my instructions were nearly always to block every initiatives on defence" Sir Ivan Rogers.
Actually, Brexit is the best thing that could happen to the EU. Since then, the EU has move on with more ambition, strengh and progress...
"ambition, strength and progress" like the EU's masters in Berlin and Frankfurt continuing to ship billions to Russia, financing Putin's genocide, not to mention the weapons Germany and it's sidekick France have been selling to Putin.
@Simon John Nah, it was about dodging tax avoidance regulations that are coming in.
Has not with EU are about NATO are not Give a path in to EU deal 🤔
@@niclaslindman are you a troll or you simply can't spell?
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Rather disappointed really. He seems to doubt that the Irish understand the issues of Northern Ireland. Does he think the English do? Ivan. Rogers also appears to think that the EU should indulge UK exceptionalism, if so he fails to understand world trade agreements. However, he does concede that the UK has a trustworthiness problem.
I listened to most of his talks and I think you got a wrong impression. He never said that the Irish do not understand the NI issue but that the EU27 might not fully feel it and having lived in Belfast for several years I can agree that nobody from outside understands it. He does not suggest EU should indulge the UK exceptionalism, I didn't get that vibe at all. He does mention that the UK might just about make it because of it's history and current position. In a way this interview can be summarized as - I know we have a crappy hand, we dealt it ourselves. but that's the best we can make playing them.
The EU has bent over backwards to facilitate NI. Brexit is a UK idea. Where are the UK solutions? The fact is that England could not care less for NI.
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@Great Tobeadub: Agreed
What exactly does the EU not understand about NI? Given the UK's wish to have a different regulatory regime, which implies borders with physical checks, there are only three solutions: have border checks between NI and Ireland, have a border checks between NI and GB, or have border checks between Ireland and the rest of the EU. Between NI and Ireland is factually neigh to impossible, even without GFA, as the border communities won't have it (see gerrymandering when it was decided where exactly the border was to be). Given Ireland wasn't consulted in the run-up to the referendum and its fraught history as regards the UK (see food exports to GB while Millions were starving or emigrating), there is no way Ireland will let itself be dragged out and become the UK's appendix without any sovereignty whatsoever.
So the EU's stand is: NI voted remain, the majority of the NI people are OK with the protocol, and so that's what we should do. Of course, there are those unionists who voted Brexit exactly because it would bust the GFA and who thus insist that they have the right to leave the SM. They will never be content until either the border to Ireland is re-installed or Ireland is annexed by the UK. So far, no UK government has said that this is what they want. If it is, the government should say so and not hide behind blaming the EU for allegedly busting the GFA by not accommodating the DUP and such like.
Of course, there is another way out: Scotland leaves the Union, forcing NI unionists to either join England and the Crown, or a Scottish republic. As ancestry and cultural links are more with Scotland than England, this would likely result in some Celtic equivalent to Scandinavia or the Benelux countries, with close ties between Scotland, Ireland and NI. Possibly Wales would then join, too. Leaving England free to go wherever it wants to, without internal quarrels between the UK nations.
Thank you for a very interesting talk.
A few comments here from Denmark of possible interest:
1) A major underlying issue is that the UK, like the US, is a quite capitalistic country with a huge banking sector and huge social differences, whereas the rest of Europe is more in favour of social democracy. This is fundamentally a cultural issue. For example, the UK middle class is perfectly willing to cast their democratic vote in favour of the upspring of upper class people, often with close ties to the banking sector, whereas people in the rest Europe would never dream of voting for such people.
2) The UK is still a more dynamic economy and leading in science and cultural products whereas the rest of Europe is still lacking behind (but perhaps gaining?). So for this reason, it makes sense that many people in the UK fail to see why the UK should tie it self to the EU (I dont blame them, but in the long I believe the EU will continue to grow and becoming stronger in many fields).
3) Also, I cannot help myself here. I am certain that everybody in the EU understand the sensitivity of the NI issue, but we just think that Boris is exploiting this sensitive issue (which he obviously is!).
4) Finally, a key point, the objective of the Brexiteers was never to just leave. The objective was and is to destroy the EU. That is what they are hoping will happen. Boris is actively trying to destabilize the EU the best he can and the EU knows this. Basically , the current UK government believes that the EU is an evil entity. It is actually as simple as that. This is the reason why the UK does not like to make agreements with the EU as a whole, since that would validate the EU. They still hope the EU will fall apart.
With regards to 1), most people in the UK don’t vote for the Tories. In 2015, only 37% voted for the Tories, meaning 63% did not. However, as we don’t have proportional representation, the system is set up such that the Tories get in more often than not and they usually enjoy 100% of the power. When a socialist became leader of Labour (Corbyn), his policies were very popular and he almost succeeded in gaining power in 2017, however, as the Tories have been in power for so long and have money and significant media influence, he didn’t succeed. Since then, the Tories have forced a reshaping of Labour to the point where they almost are an affiliate of the Tories. The Tories have so much power, money and influence, they’re pretty much mafia-like. Unless there’s fundamental democratic change in the UK (Labour & the Tories prefer the status quo, so there won’t be) nothing will change. If we did happen to get democratic change then we’d probably be more social democratic and European in our outlook. Scotland succeeding in its objective for independence may precipitate the democratic change needed in the wider UK.
With regards to 4), the Brexiteers are looking for the EU to fail as:
a) they hate the social democratic nature of mainland Europe and don’t want the British looking over the English Channel wondering why normal people have got a better life than they have;
b) they’re desperate to reshape the world in their economic and political image (nationalist, libertarian, populist);
c) crushing the EU validates Brexit;
d) the constant EU ‘hate’ psychologically reinforces their Brexit ideology in the minds of British people and tries to ensure that the UK won’t return. In other words, it’s mainly aimed at a domestic audience - if you keep telling them long enough and loud enough, people will believe it.
@@northyorkshirechris5735 The 37% pretty much mirrors the brexit vote, when you take away the remain vote and the no shows, the 11 million no shows should not be dismissed as "can't be bothered" a lot of them admitted that it was too complex an issue to come down on one side or the other. I just wish that people would accept that there was never a majority in favour of brexit.
@@Paul-eb4jp There was never a Brexit majority as you say but, with many people knowing what they know now, I would say that those in favour of Brexit lessens by the day. This is why, when Rees-Mogg was interviewed on LBC, he said that had a 2nd referendum been successful, they’d have never won it. The whole thing has been a con from start to finish and leaving the EU was just about untying the hands of the Tories to enable them to impose a more drastic right-wing/authoritarian ideology on the UK we see now.
Yes. That is why Johnson and Truss have aggressively incited war in Ukraine from 2020 on.
@@casteretpollux Ukraine deserve more weapons and more economic support, but I fail to see what the war in Ukraine have to do with this discussion? The very important response of the US in Ukriane (and to a lesser extent other NATO countries) is very a good thing, we agree. But no, the crisis does not back up your assessment, in my opinion.
Just to be clear, I am NOT saying that the UK Brexit government wish to destroy Europe and wish for France and Germany to be destroyed. They just wish for the EU to be destroyed. Honestly, is this even worth debating? It is 100% obvious.
I would say that the reason that UK hard power isn't a meaningful lever, is because it isn't.
The EU does not need the UK, when it has the US - (Arguably, it does not need either, given that it has three times the population, and 10 times the economy of Russia).
But the UK is going to find it self shut out and ignored, especially since given it's geo-strategic position, desperate need to be tight with the US, and NAto membership, there isn't much belief in the UK not doing what the EU wants anyway - See Ukraine right now.
You don't seem to understand that the purpose of Brexit was to minimise formal contacts with you. You have been rejected, tried and found wanting, no longer required or desirable.
@@paulwusteman1094 fog in channel, continent cut off.
Rubbish. You do realise that there is a bigger, wider world to be found within the confines of Planet Earth? Or does the civilised & developing world end within the borders of the Carpathians, the Mediterranean, the North Sea & the English Channel? The UK knows this, and is open for anyone who wishes free/open trade.
@It`s okay. What a load of absolute RUBBISH! The EU have brought all of this upon themselves, look at what they've done to Romania, Greece, Hungary, Poland, and latterly Austria who have now seen the shysters for what they TRULY are. All the UK did was to realise that the EU were heading in one direction (towards a federal Euro super-state, an idea as crazy as it is impractical ) while the UK wanted to be free of the constraints the cartel were imposing on them, and that's why you-know-what came about. Two culture clashes heading in different directions. We simply decided that we were never going to get what we wanted within the EU, so we left. There may yet be others who get the woke factor & decide to do the same.
Big game changer is the change in German defence policy - I am not sure U.K. will have any leverage on defence soon
"change in German defence policy" how does that work? still shipping billions to Russia to finance Putin's Ukrainian genocide, along with France still selling weapons to Putin? or are you talking about the helmets sent, not sure whether they were for the Ukrainians or the Russians.
@@jasonkingshott2971 not to mention Tory’s taking donations from the ruskies & the fast tracked best mate of bozo …. Now Lord Lebedev , bozos coke dealer & party organiser , oooh no sorry not party , event organiser , what’s the Germans & the French got to do with us , bozos just been schmoozing with India ….Putins ally !
@@marksykes5434 Why are you telling me all this?
@@jasonkingshott2971 Another silly comment.
@@brendansparks1511 'Another silly comment'..try expanding on that.
There was a missing element which surprised me back in 2017 about Theresa May's approach to the withdrawal negotiations. I understood why the EU wanted financial obligations, citizens' rights, and no border within Ireland, and I understood why May accepted that process for the negotiation, but what about defense, policing, and security cooperation?
I couldn't understand it then, and I understand it less now! Why, oh why, weren't all issues affected the security of citizens on both sides hived off from the negotiations affecting merely financial matters into a separate agreement that would proceed irrespective of a No Deal or more amicable withdrawal?
Were both sides really unable to see that was a mutually beneficial approach to take?
This is because of the UK wanting to leave the ECJ. Why?
Because some EU countries have a constitutional block from sending their citizens to countries that do not adhere to the ECHR/are not in the EU (and therefore the EU Commission does have the authority to negotiate any such deal).
This was the block at agreeing the EU warrant thing (as the UK refused to commit to even ECHR, hence there is a clause that will end all the current post-Brexit cooperation if the UK leaves tge ECHR (de facto, and the rumour is the uk government is planning to introduce legislation to that effect).
Now, this (Europol & EU warrants and related databases) is mainly the extent to EU cooperation on security, all of which comes with human rights law.
That is, the UK government refused to adhere to the constitutional limitations set by some EU member states (who obviously were not going to change their constitutions so that their citizens could be treated less fairly than the ECHR/EU27 require.
@Simon John Hi Simon. Will you answer something for me? Would you please tell me what you think have been the benefits to the UK of Brexit, any downsides, and whether, on balance, it has been good for the country?
A very interesting discussion. I was surprised that the constitutional tensions within the UK; the future of Northern Ireland, Scotland and the increasing democratic weakness of first past the post, did not feature.
How can a country devoid of a constitution have "constitutional tensions"?
@@ausbrum The UK has a constitution, it is based on the laws, regulations and rules that govern our institutions or regulate the relationship between the state and an individual.
As much respect as i have for Sir Ivan, i don't think he fully understands the level of utter contempt mainland Europe feels when it comes to the UK in general and the mindboggling rubbish government of the UK in particular. Then again, most Brits don't seem to understand it neither...
What the EU thinks about the UK is as relevant to me as yesterday's eggs on toast. We're no longer part of, so stand up, move along & get over it. Our (democratically elected, by the way) government has other & better things to do than keep crying over bygones, as it seems to me.
@@lesskeels3417 and thank fk for that.
@@lesskeels3417 Silly. 'We'? I am not part of this 'we'.
@@jamesprice4647 Are you another that wants their country run by proxy from another, and by unelected officials? Intelligence-wise, in this country, we had Oxford/Cambridge, 2 of the very best. Now it seems we've gone from colleges to cack-heads.
When Blair invaded Iraq, it proved we were still a sovereign nation whilst members of The EU. I would still happily pay my simple £120 a year of invisible money as an administration charge and membership fee to get rid of all that red tape, border hassles etc and give our young entrepreneurs and small businesses a fighting chance in Europe. Most of us didn't even notice we were members of The EU until Farage and Johnson came along and told us we were.
The area I grew up is still a racial no go zone despite what changes are promised and lied on.
What is a ‘racial no go zone’?
Minute 12: "We are not giving the Ukraine more anti-tanks weapons unless we get ..." What sort of creature thinks that way? There seems to be little below Albion Perfide!
BETTER.
Ivan Rogers: “The unusual SPEED of the EU ….”
EU: “Not really. It’s easier without you.”
Listening to these two reminds me about my distant relative. Once they were rich and owned several factories. Over the decades of bad decision making they lost most of the fortune but held on to one factory that made bullets and guns. The owner would go to the gang leaders and propose to sell his bullets to the rival gang. If they chose not to buy. Always negotiating with fake bravado and creating a need for his products even when not needed.
No wonder the guest has a honorary title from the monarchy who have for centuries been about dividing and not uniting this world.
The future of the divided Europe is clear, fractious but the EU will prosper. But there is no clear path for British success even in the next five decades. It will keep shrinking in its global influence.
For more than century, the world has done just fine without the Brits on the center stage and now they will be gone from the Europe stage too.
But then how can you blame EU for that. When you have so many incompetent people like this guest are presented as the finest of the UK., one can easily realize that Britain is now fourth-rate power after the US, China and Europe.
Predicting the future is unwise . Yet , “events dear boy , events” could see the U.K. rejoining the EU sooner than current circumstances allow. Economic circumstances may force it .
There's no support within the EU for the UK to rejoin the EU. I'm pretty sure, the big players in the EU are very happy the UK is no longer a member. The UK has always been an obstacle in most areas, politically, economically and militarily.
My God, there's one on every corner. An idiot, I mean. They're like buses here, if you miss one, don't worry, there's another one on the way. The UK will NEVER sign up to that CARTEL not now, tomorrow, or ever. We make our own trade deals now, with whomsoever we want, not what the effing CARTEL tell us to do, some examples: China, India, the USA, Canada, Australia, Africa, Switzerland, Norway, The CPTPP and whomsoever else we may choose of our own free will.
Another Brexit person now dreaming of another paradise. Never going to happen for two generations. Fix your own ‘great’ nation.
Why should there be any change at all to the protocoll? For NI it works and UK Buisness and those that Johnson lied to are UK issues.
Ivan who?
The Bad Losers Club has a smallish get-together.
And you joined to listen
@@ffi1001 And also because you're such a dependent wuss that you cannot even govern your own country!!
Too late English majority remain. Scotland is leaving you to join the EU. Possibly as a direct result of the lack of diversity in Jubilee crowds over last weekend as a new Scottish republic.
If they do they'll be toast in maybe 2 years or less. EU will eat them alive.
@Simon John Precisely, dear sir. They really should know this, which makes me wonder if Sturgeon knows/or cares.
I am a proud Brexiter. However I would never have voted to leave a free trade zone. The EU is not a free trade zone, it is an empire building enterprise that uses the threat of removing free trade in order to achieve it’s aims. They speak of “States” not countries. Once we saw the arrival of a currency, flag and anthem I knew it was time to break free. How long to EU wide taxation and spending, EU army? I think Brexit may turn out to be damaging financially but this is the price to pay for political independence.
So when will you leave the United nations. It also has a flag, rules that takes away "sovereignity" and an "army". Not to forget Hymn of the United Nations.
And for the same reason 63 other countries broke away from the British Empire. It is about time Brits get the taste of their medicine. Yes it taste bitter and they earned it. There is no hope for Brits in this generation and the next.
Sir ivan is laying out bases for the UK to rejoin the eu....at 83 years of age I wont be around tosee it but send me a telegram when it happens. David McCabe Dublin Ireland
Stell you don't now a bloody thing
BREXIT -
if you shoot your right foot
your left foot wont feel it QED
lol
Yesterdays man, Remoaner crap.
Just because you don't understand him it doesn't mean it's crap.
He's just contemplating the consequences that Brexiteers made. It's not remoaning, given he has never been supportive of staying in the single market or the customs union. It's just that one has to go ahead with the mistakes the UK government made in the negotiations.
Enjoy Brexit and its sunlit uplands 😂😂😂🤡
Doesn't strike me as a "Remoaner".
That’s the ultimate brexitards clever comment 😂