Same, it's the reason I grinded them in the first place. More powerful, but more fun and also helpfull for the team using fighters instead of this useless consumable, circling around while the enemy planes murder your allies.
I miss my old Hakuryu too, can't believe it's been 6 years. Wholly agree, I miss the class very much. 80% of the player base was too dumb to learn how to play carrier and too dumb to learn how to defend. Instead of teaching people, the carriers were reworked so now the carriers are dumb to play, and you can't defend against the strikes
Rewatching old CV vids has reminded me how much i miss old RTS carriers, not only was there more diversity in CV's, you could do so much more at once since you could have multiple squads out at a time, plus you could actually fight other CV's
i left this game many years ago, the carriers rework, the fire cruiser fuckfest...almost every class went unplayable, at first i was able to get fun with every ship class, as the years passed by all became less and less fun
Ah yes, back when CVs actually required skill. Gone are the days where you can defend your carrier and possibly someone elses from a carrier snipe with one well placed strafe
CV is by far my least played ship type, accounting for less than tenth of my total games played, so apologies for being a bit rusty when it comes to this ship!
@@kreinraan6558 I stopped playing half a year ago. I don't know what's up but prior to the cv rework it was so much better. You either pick heavy attack squadrons or fighters. I was pretty good as a cv.
Flamu, I have recently seen a new style of cv play which I found really interesting. A SEA server player YONE played 013 Lexington in ranked battle last season and it was surprisingly effective. He went for full ship AA spec (although he did go for air supremacy but otherwise it's full AA). In the game he would park his carrier incredibly forward in the battlefield behind some island, and use his ship AA to engage enemy fighters, meanwhile he can strike with 013 terror. It does require very good positioning and a lot of focus on movement of the enemy team so that he doesn't get sunk, but when well executed, he gets both good air control and superb striking capability. (Morever the enemy cv will likely be tricked into striking him given his forward position, but finally it's just a waste of planes and strikes due to his great AA. This way he takes carrier pressure off his team as well.) This approach is very unconventional and interesting. I wonder if you can experiment with this style and give a final Flamu verdict. Thanks!
@@solanine6452 I have played a couple matches in CVs before the rework (and I literally mean 2 matches) and messed up both games. They required great skill to play compared to nowadays.
If an aircraft carrier doesn't carry, is it just an aircraft? But aircraft let an aircraft carrier carry so how do they call an aircraft carrier that doesn't carry?
AA was only overpowered because of Defensive AA, which improves your mid and long Range AA dmg per second. Whenever a ship doesn't have it (BBs) their AA is useless against ships.
thats why u should only target lone ships if possible, especially those that dont have DF around them, and try to come into their AA bubble in a straight line, in and out. trying to turn too much in their AA bubble to get the right angle, is dangerous and should be avoided by prepositioning your planes AT LEAST outside of the AA bubble, but best if outside spotting range.
To be fair, that was a Cruiser. They're SUPPOSED to do that. Now when BATTLESHIPS do that, which they do and are only going to be able to do better this patch, I have serious freaking issues with the game.
+mariofan1ish Yeah, if a Gneisenau ca shoot down half of my Essex TIX planes when he's the only ship... Atlanta is supposed to be an AA cruiser and it was, and that ship does a great job with it, but BBs?
I suck at CVs, but then, not played much, low tier, idk. but really nice to see something like this, with good commentary, thanks very much, love your work
Hey Flamu, I wanted to share some mechanics divulged by Sub_Octavian in a Reddit Q&A on AA mechanics. “Each aura works independently. So, when a squadron enters additional aura (it may be the same ship or another ship), it gets additional 'destruction timer' and starts losing planes from this aura accordingly. When aura efficiency changes for some reason (e.g., some AA guns are destroyed, suppressive fire is activated or manual control is used), the 'destruction timer' of this aura adjusts. If an aura stops targeting a squadron for some reason (e.g. player selects another target or the squadron flies away), the 'destruction timer' ends. Squadrons do not 'remember' any interaction from passed engagements, their HP is actually number of planes left.”
The shima kill in the beginning is a great example of why I dont like carriers. He went up front to spot/torp the enemys (in other cases maybe cap a point) and once he is spotted by planes there is nothing he can do. His AA is pretty much useless he cant run away from planes, hes constantly spotted, he can hide in smoke for 1-2 min but the carrier can just blind drop in the smoke or leave the planes above the smoke and wait for it to fade. The DD has no chance to counter it.
Bert Nandez Because DDs are the most influent yet the most vulnerable ship classes in the game after they give CV an AA consumable. Before, I would rather strike their CV first than striking DDs. Also, even a very skillfull CV player cannot consistantly strike DDs due to the fucking slow UI can screw you up.
yeah, as a (mainly) DD player, it happens often (when there is carrier ... not at all battles, thanks WG !) your only hope is to call your own carrier for support : sometimes (well, one of ten roughly), some will send some fighters squadron covering you, and it saves life ! The nine other times, I know i'll be back in my port really soon. CV are the real sky cancer of WG ... :D
Smoke lasts 97 sec on shims IIRC, in that time you kill 2 T10 planes then you are dead. Turn back before they spot you? Sure you can try, planes are faster than then DDs and its not that hard to guess where the DD is. Get into AA cover? Good luck with the average Cruiser players staying at 15km distance so you have to travel 10km to get into their AA range - plenty of time for the carrier to catch you. I'm not saying you are always fucked but when a CV wants to kill the DD the DD has little chance to be effective in the game.
Never played CVs, but at least I had the respect of those who mastered the RTS playstyle. Unlike now, they are easy to play and you just carry the game for simply being a CV. AA is a joke, Des Moines has good AA lmao!
MultiCockta I can wholeheartedly agree. As the video states, CVs can turn the tide of a game, and they don't get diddly squat for it. Of course, one of WG's 2017 plans is to "Make high-tier CVs more appealing", and I hope that includes more money and XP for doing your job, and doing it well at that.
I think it's a balancing issue, tier 9 and 10 CVs are still incredibly powerful if not borderline OP, and they certainly were OP before. There is also a huge difference between the effect a good player and an average player has on the game, especially as they get mirror matched so it's essentially a 1v1 duel and often the team with the crap carrier player is basically screwed which is not fun for them, they get farmed by a CV and they lose the game because they were unlucky to get a bad carrier player. This obviously causes problems and I think WG just don't know how to balance them at the moment, so instead they are trying to put people off from playing them so the problem is less game breaking. Most games thus you barely see a CV and the balance problems aren't there. I'd expect when they get to making CVs more balanced, and more accessible for the average player they'll also change the economy.
its a matter of skill, carriers are overpowered when the person that plays them knows what hes doing, otherwise they r pretty bad, but i guess this can be said for pretty much every ship to some extend
I have to say .. I am a CV player and I don't know why but I never felt like I was getting too few XP or silver. Maybe because I started this game as a CV player and i dind't know how much i could earn with another type of ship.. but then again most of the time I finish as top XP in the CV anyway ...
I think having a sneaky dd trigger the enemy cap could be smart, since there's a pretty good chance that parts of the enemy team will turn back, letting the friendly ships kill the enemy ships that don't retreat, and then kill the ones that did retreat. Actually capping is kind of pointless tho, unless the last hiding enemy.
USN carriers have excellent loadouts, but they force you to dedicate yourself to a single role: total air superiority or huge damage over time potential with strike setup. I can easily score 150k - 200k with my Lexington strike setup (0-1-3) and the only real counter I'm affraid of facing is another Lexington that runs air superiority (2-0-2).
Well, the majority seems to not know how to play these loadouts effectively. The mid tier US carriers are the most recurring bottom WR ships on the EU server. (Warships today, 2017), Compared to the IJ CV's?
It common knowledge in MOBAs that if you find a character very difficult to deal with, try playing him. See what makes him tick. His weaknesses, strengths etc. so that you can take advantage of perceived weaknesses when you cross tracks again. Given this motif, any suggestions for going against T9 and 10 carriers? Seeing as I am neither willing nor able to actually grind that.
Flamu, now that the new captain skills are kinda etched in stone with the patchnotes, are your recommended builds in your latest captainskill vid still viable? I f'd up my captainskills before and dont want to waste this freebe from WG. :0
It's no wonder why torpedo bombers are just so much better than dive bombers, despite real life showing that dive bombers were crucial and much more reliable for inflicting damage: in this game, torpedo bombers are almost as fast as dive bombers, just as vulnerable to AA (in reality, outside of American AA in the later stages of the war, dive bombers were usually not threatened by AA fire until AFTER they had dropped their bombs, because they flew so high and fast, and then dived near-vertical at high speeds). Furthermore, with RTS-like controls, you can coordinate your torpedo drops with relative ease; in real life, getting hammer-and-anvil torpedo drops was hard, especially if your torpedo bombers were slow. Next, the lack of AP bombs means that dive bombers rarely knock out the target's engines, penetrate into the target's citadel or vital spaces, etc. The fact that dive bomb hits don't always start fires is crazy, since they were notorious for doing just that (not surprising, considering that they were big HE bombs dropped onto highly flammable ships--especially in the USN's case, where they used 1000-pound HE bombs). The fact that dive bomber drops are heavily RNG-based while torpedo bombers are predictable and controllable doesn't help matters. Also, late-tier carriers should carry more fighters--both sides knew that more fighters were needed, since they were your primary means of defence and critical for protecting your bombers as they made their attacks--and you needed enough for both tasks.
it is a little bit accurate, USN CVs carry very few TBs and lots of DB, whereas the japanese carried Lots of TBs and few DBs also. DBs arnet that reliant of RNzg, similar to TBs, you will get a few hits if you use the auto drop, but if you manual drop you get a lot more hits, DBs in real life wern't that accurate either
SaltyWaffles in real life IJN torps were better than US because they spent many many years and money on research for torps. US didnt, so IJN torps are much better and US bombs are much better
My stock Shokaku without 15 point captain got 68% win rate. I average only 70k damage. Probably speaks about how DDs decide the outcome of a match and how CVs counter them hard.
I agree on those credit rewards being kinda on the low side but what about that shimakaze you sunk in the start? He probably lost more money that you would have made with out premium and the most cases only Carriers can do that to and enemy ship so early, ofc if enemy doesn't yolo in to a gun line but still. You say that well played carrier is very efficient but what do you think i more harder for average player? deal huge DMG in a Battleship or cruiser and affect the game or with a carrier? Most ppl would say flying you'r planes, attacking single targets who have left their fleet and cover and bomming them is easier that getting good penetrations with guns due to more things that affect the shooting and damage from shells: you'r lead on the target, angle of the target, speed of the target, ammo type, do you hit the target at all, armor on the target, is you'r ship being shot at, cyclone (albeit rarely), tier difference, gun caliber and ofc RNG weather you get penetration/fires or do you'r shells just shatter or bounce. Where in torpedoes, by ship to ship or by air dropped, or bombs do you hit the target, do you hit torp bulge(causing dmg fall of), do you cause flooding, do you detonate the magazine, angle of the target, armor of the target, do you cause fires, how many bomb hits you get. So the damage caused by carriers and BB's or cruisers are so affected by different game mechanics and deves think and/or they feel the need to equalize the dmg from all sources not to give one particular class an advantage, as you say carriers have the most dmg and carry potential in the game, as it is in real life. I don't mean to say that positioning you'r strikes or planning you'r strikes is and making you'r attacks count is so easy you can do it with one arm tied behind you'r back while having you'r GF give you BJ while chugging beer with the other hand but most of the community feels like this, it seems.
Omg If i would have the chance to attack any other ship i would, but 70% of all Bbs and Cas are having extremely good AA or a lot of AA cover, so the only real opportunity is killing DDs. Even now every fucking CA has 2 fighterplanes. And its much easier to have a good DD or BB game then a good CV game(T5-T8). Im playing shokaku and it really sucks attacking cruisers or BBs because mostly no planes are getting back to my ship. So of course CVs are focusing DDs. And yes T10 CVs are very very strong, and thats no Problem because alle the way up to T 10 CVs are mostly having bad games these days. And normaly a CV player doesnt wait for 1,5-2 min for striking a DD when his smoke runs out, because 1 CV strike takes minimum of 4-5 min.
MidnightGaming So you are complaining that playing as a CV is..... too hard? Granted the AA power rises very sharply but you can still play as carrier and do well and enjoy the game. Why would you attack cruisers or BB when/if they are together? I just hold back my planes until i can target isolated ship, be that either CA or BB, and i doubt you would lose all you'r attack planes, i do have T7 ranger, yes i lose games and i win games but i am still able to engage a lone cruiser or BB of tier 7 or 9 with out losing all my planes, YES i will lose some but not all and the strike is costly but again, you engage in this kinda way in the later states of the game when enemy ships have spreaded out more. Also define a 'bad game', if i can get over 2-2.2k experience, maybe sink a ship or two and be on a winning team and i make a profit regardless of the amount, that's a good game. Even if i'm at a losing team, if the game is really close and tense, that's also a very good game, a game where i feel it was worth playing that 20 min match. More over do you imply that the only worth for carrier is to deal dmg to enemy ships? not true, you can do much more as a CV, spot the DD's give air cover for you'r ships, make enemy ships manover from you'r strike craft so you'r team can get a better angle on them, defend the base when most of you'r team is somewhere else.
Sorry but in a shokaku you are facing in these days to 70% T10 ships. You just get shreddered. Wow american planes have a lot more HP than japanese, even a lonely yamato can kill at least 3-6 planes in a airstrike. So its right to complain. Just scouting isnt worth it, and if you attack DDs they are complaining: ouuh i cant avoid enemy bombers mimimi...if i could attack bbs i would but its just not worth it to loose dat many planes. Even a lonely CA can have defensiv AA so you are not going to kill him or deal significant dmg and uf you oull your planes back you are still loosing a lot of them. I run out if planes very often, and most players are not splitting of that often. Against T9 and 10 AA you just get murdered in a shokaku. So T9/10 CVs are stronger yes, and that is fair. Bit below game really sucks for CV players, yes scouting is important but its boring if you just focus on scouting and the most XP do u get if you kill a DD or CA on your own.
MidnightGaming Granted scouting and spotting with planes and other things CV can do with planes, not meaning the dmg by torp hits/bombs, could be tweaked to yeald more EXP so that that unlike other ships you'r not dependent on dealing dmg but more of a support/spotter/ air cover gicing CV, but that would require balance in AA pover of other ships, or hell even CV matchmaking fix.
i just checked and the stock loadout is 29 fighters, 43 TBs, 28 DBs. full strike is 25 fighters, 38 TBs, 37 DBs. so u gain 4 fighters and 5 TBs while losing 9 DBs. i think the stock loadout is DEFINITLY worth it!!
the shima should just uses speed boost to outrun the first drop then easily avoid the 2nd drop. russian can do it easie most of their dd are above 40knts.
or drop the speed to zero right after turning from the first drop, then he would have a few second to turn into the second drop while already free from the first, especially with IJN CV torp's drop pattern, the more time you sail with the torps the less gaps you have between the torps.
MrCreepStuff usn only has one tb. also less squads. midway is only good at wrecking bbs but you want the dds dead to win the game. takes way too long to wither down bbs so its not really as valuable
I have a tactic vs carriers in DDs to avoid getting cross dropped.. I slow down to bait him into dropping..(generally I hope to have a speed boost available.. I go along with those Torps, but I'm generally faster, the moment I realise the other torp squad is dropping I turn away from that squadron, and try to position myself between the Torps that I was sailing along with and the Torps from side generally miss... If anyone understand what I tried to say.. Your a genius XD.. But.. There are ways to avaoid cross drops in DDs.. If I can.. We all can :P
Another thing.. Is.. To fit between the drop that comes from the side.. You must come very close to one of the Torps from the drop from behind you, this gives you a larger distance to make the turn :)
You make me sick. Wargaming hates the USN lines anyway so it doesn’t even matter. If Midway does roflstomp the Hakuryu like that, it will get wacked so hard by the nerf bat that the likes of Shokaku will roflstop it. So keep dreaming.
Yes I can read you moron. I can see very clearly that you want Midway to stomp it’s Japanese counterpart. Anyone who has played this game knows that Wargaming won’t EVER let any USN ship completely crush it’s counterpart like that. I can quite easily conclude that you’re biased and that you want USN carriers to dominate. Also, fix your English. My five year old cousin brother writes better than you do and English isn’t even his first language.
Flamu, when you say "permanent flooding", the term you're looking for is "full-duration flooding". Permanent means that it lasts forever; flooding and fires are inherently temporary. Full-duration means that it lasts for the entire duration (or time) of the fire/flooding.
By context, we all know what it means though. TBH, "full-duration", or similar terms are just too bothersome to say. So "Permanent", or just "perm flooding" is better.
God this thing was ridiculous in old RTS. If you timed it right you could basically just one shot a battleship at the start of the match and there was nothing you could do about it, cross dropping was also super busted on this ship as it basically made it impossible for dds to dodge the incoming attack, also air dropped torpedoes used to deal as much damage as those launched from destroyers. Glad Hakuryu isn’t as busted as it was in RTS, but my only complaint, is why did the fuck did they have to go and give them Armour piercing bombs, I mean like what the fuck wargaming.
The best T8 is the Lex ;) Ranked battle 244k dmg, 4 kills, Defeat. I can't afford playing it anymore. I loose to much in random battles if the team looses :/
WG went with the idea that if most of the players who don't uderstand CVs whine that they are OP then their number has to be reduced by not making them affordable anymore. We will not give up WG, you gave us CVs and we're gonna play the shit out of them anyways! :D And maybe if we yell long and loud enough they will actually do some (possitive) changes to the class.
Well, CVs are op by design. They are the only class that can attack ships at the other end of the map without ever getting attacked themselves. The only counter against CV is to stay together and even then it will only prevent the carrier from going after you while it doesn't mean you can actually attack the CV. If it would be up to me they might as well cut them from the game. It just isn't fun when your team loses because your carrier player is a potato while the carrier of the other team knows, what he is doing. If that is the case, you are already fighting an uphill battle, just because 1 out of 12 guys sucks at the game.
Yeah and it's so much fun when there's, idk, a Yamato, bunked in a cap with an island on one of his flank, and angled vs everything else in your team. No carrier in game ? Well, congratulation you lost this cap for like 3 minutes, which is the required time for your whole fleet to kill this Yamato. Btw, CV may be the only ship you can't shoot back at, but it's the only ship that you can be pretty much immuned to. I mean, other ships don't get their shells vaporized while approaching your ships, carrier does. The "OP by design because you can't shoot back at them" argument is typical for those who're ranting against CVs without having played them past T6. Because if it was the case you'd know that there are some situations where you're totally out and absolutly can't do anything. Which never happens in any other classes.
I don't like carriers at all. In a game that is so reliant on teamwork it's not fun to have a class of ship that influences the battle outcome so heavily. It's also not fun to play against a ship that can delete you whenever it pleases with zero risk of retaliation. Sure you can avoid being deleted by sailing as a fleet but why should it take so many ships to counter just the one enemy ship? It's a mechanic that encourages lemming training. Carriers are in my opinion the worst part about this game. Hopefully the next update will mitigate the problem instead of making it worse.
+MegaRaven100 If a carrier finds himself outnumbered and vulnerable late game it's usually because the enemy carrier did a better job at carrying his team. Yes they can be taken out at the beginning by the enemy AIRSTRIKE (carriers again). Which puts the entire team at an advantage/disadvantage right from the start just because of the one player. It's simply not a good mechanic in a team oriented game. Additionally, it becomes easier to predict where destroyers are and when torpedoes are coming with experience. The same is not true for carriers. Planes strike squadrons can come in at any moment, drop from any direction, and move on. Even if you have defensive AA they can just come back when it's on cool down. There's simply not much that can be done to counter them (provided the carrier is experienced).
CV economy was still questionable. You do spot and killed underaged ship, you spot enemies, you took down many planes and your credits are still.. ehhh
It's more because that CVs get a birds's-eye view of their team being retards, and there's only so much they can do about it. They can see failure coming 20 miles away, and if they can't solve the problem themselves they can only tell their team what to do. And we all know how well relying on your team tends to work.
Miss old RTS carrier ;(
Same, it's the reason I grinded them in the first place.
More powerful, but more fun and also helpfull for the team using fighters instead of this useless consumable, circling around while the enemy planes murder your allies.
I miss my old Hakuryu too, can't believe it's been 6 years. Wholly agree, I miss the class very much. 80% of the player base was too dumb to learn how to play carrier and too dumb to learn how to defend. Instead of teaching people, the carriers were reworked so now the carriers are dumb to play, and you can't defend against the strikes
Rewatching old CV vids has reminded me how much i miss old RTS carriers, not only was there more diversity in CV's, you could do so much more at once since you could have multiple squads out at a time, plus you could actually fight other CV's
i left this game many years ago, the carriers rework, the fire cruiser fuckfest...almost every class went unplayable, at first i was able to get fun with every ship class, as the years passed by all became less and less fun
Ah yes, back when CVs actually required skill. Gone are the days where you can defend your carrier and possibly someone elses from a carrier snipe with one well placed strafe
"The longer you can keep a potato alive the longer it serve as a distraction" Damn ! That's some good tactics ! XD
for me it usually backfires as they teamkill players that are not potatos
Just came here to remember the good old days
same
same mind
Same
I think I preferred the RTS style of CV play.
Same
the time when playing CV make you feel like a fucking real admiral
CV is by far my least played ship type, accounting for less than tenth of my total games played, so apologies for being a bit rusty when it comes to this ship!
Flamu will you be streaming today?
Flamu now we need a midway game!
I have a midway and I openly admit that it needs some significant love. If you're against a Hakuryu you won't have nearly the map control he does.
I've never be played a CV since I downloaded this game
we will need both Midway and Hakuryu, possibly Saipan, with the new commander skills after 0.6.0 comes online
This was so much more fun than the current way CVs work. I loved the strafing mechanic
old cvs are a lot more historically accurate than nowadays cvs
True
Floating plane factories KEKW
I miss this type of mode, cv mode now is shit
Yes
Talking about nowadays, they made a trade barge out of the glorious cv...
As carrier player? maybe. As shippi captain? No thanks. CVs were even more unbalanced in these days.
@@kreinraan6558 I stopped playing half a year ago. I don't know what's up but prior to the cv rework it was so much better. You either pick heavy attack squadrons or fighters. I was pretty good as a cv.
Same
Flamu, I have recently seen a new style of cv play which I found really interesting. A SEA server player YONE played 013 Lexington in ranked battle last season and it was surprisingly effective. He went for full ship AA spec (although he did go for air supremacy but otherwise it's full AA). In the game he would park his carrier incredibly forward in the battlefield behind some island, and use his ship AA to engage enemy fighters, meanwhile he can strike with 013 terror. It does require very good positioning and a lot of focus on movement of the enemy team so that he doesn't get sunk, but when well executed, he gets both good air control and superb striking capability. (Morever the enemy cv will likely be tricked into striking him given his forward position, but finally it's just a waste of planes and strikes due to his great AA. This way he takes carrier pressure off his team as well.)
This approach is very unconventional and interesting. I wonder if you can experiment with this style and give a final Flamu verdict. Thanks!
Tsah, that kind of CV that are still autodropping at T10. Jesus.
You guys miss this?
New CVs look like puny bees next to this angry hornet nest.
Joined after the rework, just curious to see what could have been and had been.
@@solanine6452 I have played a couple matches in CVs before the rework (and I literally mean 2 matches) and messed up both games.
They required great skill to play compared to nowadays.
If an aircraft carrier doesn't carry, is it just an aircraft? But aircraft let an aircraft carrier carry so how do they call an aircraft carrier that doesn't carry?
AA was only overpowered because of Defensive AA, which improves your mid and long Range AA dmg per second. Whenever a ship doesn't have it (BBs) their AA is useless against ships.
Thunderstruck170 I know, but AA in general is OP, look at update 0.6.0 they again buffed AA?!
thats why u should only target lone ships if possible, especially those that dont have DF around them, and try to come into their AA bubble in a straight line, in and out. trying to turn too much in their AA bubble to get the right angle, is dangerous and should be avoided by prepositioning your planes AT LEAST outside of the AA bubble, but best if outside spotting range.
To be fair, that was a Cruiser. They're SUPPOSED to do that.
Now when BATTLESHIPS do that, which they do and are only going to be able to do better this patch, I have serious freaking issues with the game.
+mariofan1ish
Yeah, if a Gneisenau ca shoot down half of my Essex TIX planes when he's the only ship...
Atlanta is supposed to be an AA cruiser and it was, and that ship does a great job with it, but BBs?
Miday should get back jetplanes to balance it out
I suck at CVs, but then, not played much, low tier, idk.
but really nice to see something like this, with good commentary, thanks very much, love your work
Great team work = impossible CV gameplay
Zero team work = the CV may be the king of the battle
Hey Flamu, I wanted to share some mechanics divulged by Sub_Octavian in a Reddit Q&A on AA mechanics.
“Each aura works independently. So, when a squadron enters additional aura (it may be the same ship or another ship), it gets additional 'destruction timer' and starts losing planes from this aura accordingly. When aura efficiency changes for some reason (e.g., some AA guns are destroyed, suppressive fire is activated or manual control is used), the 'destruction timer' of this aura adjusts. If an aura stops targeting a squadron for some reason (e.g. player selects another target or the squadron flies away), the 'destruction timer' ends. Squadrons do not 'remember' any interaction from passed engagements, their HP is actually number of planes left.”
When you do Emden review?
Thanks RUclips for the recommendation...
These were honestly a lot more fun.
They needed to be balanced, but WG never really tried to... did they...
Good old times when playing CV needed actual functioning brain Sadge
The shima kill in the beginning is a great example of why I dont like carriers. He went up front to spot/torp the enemys (in other cases maybe cap a point) and once he is spotted by planes there is nothing he can do. His AA is pretty much useless he cant run away from planes, hes constantly spotted, he can hide in smoke for 1-2 min but the carrier can just blind drop in the smoke or leave the planes above the smoke and wait for it to fade.
The DD has no chance to counter it.
Bert Nandez haha play the gearing with defensive AA, then you can run away. But its right if a carrier wants to see you die, you will die ;(
Bert Nandez Because DDs are the most influent yet the most vulnerable ship classes in the game after they give CV an AA consumable. Before, I would rather strike their CV first than striking DDs. Also, even a very skillfull CV player cannot consistantly strike DDs due to the fucking slow UI can screw you up.
yeah, as a (mainly) DD player, it happens often (when there is carrier ... not at all battles, thanks WG !)
your only hope is to call your own carrier for support : sometimes (well, one of ten roughly), some will send some fighters squadron covering you, and it saves life ! The nine other times, I know i'll be back in my port really soon.
CV are the real sky cancer of WG ... :D
Smoke, or turn back to AA cover before plane spots you ?
I mean yeah, vs carrier you must think 15 seconds ahead. Too hard for most players it seems.
Smoke lasts 97 sec on shims IIRC, in that time you kill 2 T10 planes then you are dead. Turn back before they spot you? Sure you can try, planes are faster than then DDs and its not that hard to guess where the DD is. Get into AA cover? Good luck with the average Cruiser players staying at 15km distance so you have to travel 10km to get into their AA range - plenty of time for the carrier to catch you.
I'm not saying you are always fucked but when a CV wants to kill the DD the DD has little chance to be effective in the game.
Hey Flamu, any chance to see you make a commentary on the Myoko? I don't seem to be able to find any Myoko commentaries on your channel :(
This is the most profane Flamu video I've seen so far... I like it :D
Are fires the devil?
i miss the old RTS where cv was fun
BTW Flamu, will you make an other video about the new skill tree since some changes were made after you posted your first vid ?
now let's see you do the same in a Midway vs a Hakuryu.
Finally a cv commentary! thanks
Never played CVs, but at least I had the respect of those who mastered the RTS playstyle.
Unlike now, they are easy to play and you just carry the game for simply being a CV.
AA is a joke, Des Moines has good AA lmao!
I still wonder how this was better than post rework CV. Esp if the CV was actually good
Man, I don't even have much interest in CVs and I consider their rewards to be absolutely laughable. WG? What the hell, man?
Jimmy Seaver the economy is insulting
MultiCockta I can wholeheartedly agree. As the video states, CVs can turn the tide of a game, and they don't get diddly squat for it. Of course, one of WG's 2017 plans is to "Make high-tier CVs more appealing", and I hope that includes more money and XP for doing your job, and doing it well at that.
I think it's a balancing issue, tier 9 and 10 CVs are still incredibly powerful if not borderline OP, and they certainly were OP before. There is also a huge difference between the effect a good player and an average player has on the game, especially as they get mirror matched so it's essentially a 1v1 duel and often the team with the crap carrier player is basically screwed which is not fun for them, they get farmed by a CV and they lose the game because they were unlucky to get a bad carrier player. This obviously causes problems and I think WG just don't know how to balance them at the moment, so instead they are trying to put people off from playing them so the problem is less game breaking. Most games thus you barely see a CV and the balance problems aren't there. I'd expect when they get to making CVs more balanced, and more accessible for the average player they'll also change the economy.
its a matter of skill, carriers are overpowered when the person that plays them knows what hes doing, otherwise they r pretty bad, but i guess this can be said for pretty much every ship to some extend
I have to say .. I am a CV player and I don't know why but I never felt like I was getting too few XP or silver. Maybe because I started this game as a CV player and i dind't know how much i could earn with another type of ship.. but then again most of the time I finish as top XP in the CV anyway ...
Flamu, WG did adjust the new captain skill tree somewhat, would that change anything from your recommended builds video you previously made?
ItsTime2Battle , Yea. I think the catapult fighter time got nerfed to hell right. I got a feeling that it might not be viable anymore.
+Asiandeathgod You mean the flight time, IIRC it's BB only, cruiser doesn't get flight time nerf.
I think having a sneaky dd trigger the enemy cap could be smart, since there's a pretty good chance that parts of the enemy team will turn back, letting the friendly ships kill the enemy ships that don't retreat, and then kill the ones that did retreat. Actually capping is kind of pointless tho, unless the last hiding enemy.
If only they gave the tier 6,7 and 8 US carriers better loadouts...
They're good loadouts, I can play them effectivly
USN carriers have excellent loadouts, but they force you to dedicate yourself to a single role: total air superiority or huge damage over time potential with strike setup.
I can easily score 150k - 200k with my Lexington strike setup (0-1-3) and the only real counter I'm affraid of facing is another Lexington that runs air superiority (2-0-2).
Rothank Haha, I rather play the 2-0-2 plane kills add up, if you have 53 plane kills = -+Clear sky. and that is around equal to... uhm 100k?
Well, the majority seems to not know how to play these loadouts effectively. The mid tier US carriers are the most recurring bottom WR ships on the EU server. (Warships today, 2017), Compared to the IJ CV's?
Honestly WE should have full control of our load outs! The way it is setup is a fucking joke!
the times I play my cv I can never seem to zoom out as far as you seem to be to he able to see better
It common knowledge in MOBAs that if you find a character very difficult to deal with, try playing him. See what makes him tick. His weaknesses, strengths etc. so that you can take advantage of perceived weaknesses when you cross tracks again.
Given this motif, any suggestions for going against T9 and 10 carriers? Seeing as I am neither willing nor able to actually grind that.
How do you select multiple groups of bombers without having to drag a box?
Flamu, now that the new captain skills are kinda etched in stone with the patchnotes, are your recommended builds in your latest captainskill vid still viable? I f'd up my captainskills before and dont want to waste this freebe from WG. :0
If I did that much damage in an Atago I'd get over a million credits and double the xp, at a conservative estimate.
I like how the chat tells what ship is talking. Is this still an option you can enable somewhere?
It's no wonder why torpedo bombers are just so much better than dive bombers, despite real life showing that dive bombers were crucial and much more reliable for inflicting damage: in this game, torpedo bombers are almost as fast as dive bombers, just as vulnerable to AA (in reality, outside of American AA in the later stages of the war, dive bombers were usually not threatened by AA fire until AFTER they had dropped their bombs, because they flew so high and fast, and then dived near-vertical at high speeds). Furthermore, with RTS-like controls, you can coordinate your torpedo drops with relative ease; in real life, getting hammer-and-anvil torpedo drops was hard, especially if your torpedo bombers were slow.
Next, the lack of AP bombs means that dive bombers rarely knock out the target's engines, penetrate into the target's citadel or vital spaces, etc. The fact that dive bomb hits don't always start fires is crazy, since they were notorious for doing just that (not surprising, considering that they were big HE bombs dropped onto highly flammable ships--especially in the USN's case, where they used 1000-pound HE bombs). The fact that dive bomber drops are heavily RNG-based while torpedo bombers are predictable and controllable doesn't help matters.
Also, late-tier carriers should carry more fighters--both sides knew that more fighters were needed, since they were your primary means of defence and critical for protecting your bombers as they made their attacks--and you needed enough for both tasks.
it is a little bit accurate, USN CVs carry very few TBs and lots of DB, whereas the japanese carried Lots of TBs and few DBs
also. DBs arnet that reliant of RNzg, similar to TBs, you will get a few hits if you use the auto drop, but if you manual drop you get a lot more hits, DBs in real life wern't that accurate either
SaltyWaffles in real life IJN torps were better than US because they spent many many years and money on research for torps. US didnt, so IJN torps are much better and US bombs are much better
My stock Shokaku without 15 point captain got 68% win rate. I average only 70k damage. Probably speaks about how DDs decide the outcome of a match and how CVs counter them hard.
I agree on those credit rewards being kinda on the low side but what about that shimakaze you sunk in the start?
He probably lost more money that you would have made with out premium and the most cases only Carriers can do that to and enemy ship so early, ofc if enemy doesn't yolo in to a gun line but still.
You say that well played carrier is very efficient but what do you think i more harder for average player? deal huge DMG in a Battleship or cruiser and affect the game or with a carrier?
Most ppl would say flying you'r planes, attacking single targets who have left their fleet and cover and bomming them is easier that getting good penetrations with guns due to more things that affect the shooting and damage from shells:
you'r lead on the target, angle of the target, speed of the target, ammo type, do you hit the target at all, armor on the target, is you'r ship being shot at, cyclone (albeit rarely), tier difference, gun caliber and ofc RNG weather you get penetration/fires or do you'r shells just shatter or bounce.
Where in torpedoes, by ship to ship or by air dropped, or bombs
do you hit the target, do you hit torp bulge(causing dmg fall of), do you cause flooding, do you detonate the magazine, angle of the target, armor of the target, do you cause fires, how many bomb hits you get.
So the damage caused by carriers and BB's or cruisers are so affected by different game mechanics and deves think and/or they feel the need to equalize the dmg from all sources not to give one particular class an advantage, as you say carriers have the most dmg and carry potential in the game, as it is in real life.
I don't mean to say that positioning you'r strikes or planning you'r strikes is and making you'r attacks count is so easy you can do it with one arm tied behind you'r back while having you'r GF give you BJ while chugging beer with the other hand but most of the community feels like this, it seems.
Omg
If i would have the chance to attack any other ship i would, but 70% of all Bbs and Cas are having extremely good AA or a lot of AA cover, so the only real opportunity is killing DDs. Even now every fucking CA has 2 fighterplanes. And its much easier to have a good DD or BB game then a good CV game(T5-T8). Im playing shokaku and it really sucks attacking cruisers or BBs because mostly no planes are getting back to my ship. So of course CVs are focusing DDs. And yes T10 CVs are very very strong, and thats no Problem because alle the way up to T 10 CVs are mostly having bad games these days. And normaly a CV player doesnt wait for 1,5-2 min for striking a DD when his smoke runs out, because 1 CV strike takes minimum of 4-5 min.
MidnightGaming So you are complaining that playing as a CV is..... too hard?
Granted the AA power rises very sharply but you can still play as carrier and do well and enjoy the game.
Why would you attack cruisers or BB when/if they are together?
I just hold back my planes until i can target isolated ship, be that either CA or BB, and i doubt you would lose all you'r attack planes, i do have T7 ranger, yes i lose games and i win games but i am still able to engage a lone cruiser or BB of tier 7 or 9 with out losing all my planes, YES i will lose some but not all and the strike is costly but again, you engage in this kinda way in the later states of the game when enemy ships have spreaded out more.
Also define a 'bad game', if i can get over 2-2.2k experience, maybe sink a ship or two and be on a winning team and i make a profit regardless of the amount, that's a good game.
Even if i'm at a losing team, if the game is really close and tense, that's also a very good game, a game where i feel it was worth playing that 20 min match.
More over do you imply that the only worth for carrier is to deal dmg to enemy ships?
not true, you can do much more as a CV, spot the DD's give air cover for you'r ships, make enemy ships manover from you'r strike craft so you'r team can get a better angle on them, defend the base when most of you'r team is somewhere else.
Sorry but in a shokaku you are facing in these days to 70% T10 ships. You just get shreddered. Wow american planes have a lot more HP than japanese, even a lonely yamato can kill at least 3-6 planes in a airstrike. So its right to complain. Just scouting isnt worth it, and if you attack DDs they are complaining: ouuh i cant avoid enemy bombers mimimi...if i could attack bbs i would but its just not worth it to loose dat many planes. Even a lonely CA can have defensiv AA so you are not going to kill him or deal significant dmg and uf you oull your planes back you are still loosing a lot of them. I run out if planes very often, and most players are not splitting of that often. Against T9 and 10 AA you just get murdered in a shokaku. So T9/10 CVs are stronger yes, and that is fair. Bit below game really sucks for CV players, yes scouting is important but its boring if you just focus on scouting and the most XP do u get if you kill a DD or CA on your own.
MidnightGaming Granted scouting and spotting with planes and other things CV can do with planes, not meaning the dmg by torp hits/bombs, could be tweaked to yeald more EXP so that that unlike other ships you'r not dependent on dealing dmg but more of a support/spotter/ air cover gicing CV, but that would require balance in AA pover of other ships, or hell even CV matchmaking fix.
The Nostalgia :)
Look how much interactions going on in the chat... now it just feels empty, full of bots
Btw the minotaur and des moines are not immune to air strikes
What is the hotkey(s) to select multiple squadrons so quickly?
Brian Hemminger shift + the number of the squads
I hope you show us more CV plays.
Also is the minotaur op
Or should I just continue the ijn cvs
Wow, I expected way more xp and wayyy more CR from this.
i just checked and the stock loadout is 29 fighters, 43 TBs, 28 DBs.
full strike is 25 fighters, 38 TBs, 37 DBs.
so u gain 4 fighters and 5 TBs while losing 9 DBs.
i think the stock loadout is DEFINITLY worth it!!
Hello hello
today
an aircraft carrier gameplay
Hello hello and welcome, this is...
Mikasa video when
do play the midway
"Sadly I only got one fire with for bondage under 14......"
wai-... wth ?!
RIP Subtitle
What does a strafe do ?
Today , Tuesday?
the shima should just uses speed boost to outrun the first drop then easily avoid the 2nd drop. russian can do it easie most of their dd are above 40knts.
or drop the speed to zero right after turning from the first drop, then he would have a few second to turn into the second drop while already free from the first, especially with IJN CV torp's drop pattern, the more time you sail with the torps the less gaps you have between the torps.
17:10 And that why im not evening buying tier 10 CV im stuck at tier 9.
Yeah, I played several games with the Midway. Sold it and bought the Essex back. The games for T9 are also more interesting with T7 games.
Hard to dodge a cross drop in a dd? umm.... Fletcher and Gearing don't think so.
what wrong with the midway? Can you say why its less strong than Hakuryu?
MrCreepStuff usn only has one tb. also less squads. midway is only good at wrecking bbs but you want the dds dead to win the game. takes way too long to wither down bbs so its not really as valuable
I have a tactic vs carriers in DDs to avoid getting cross dropped.. I slow down to bait him into dropping..(generally I hope to have a speed boost available.. I go along with those Torps, but I'm generally faster, the moment I realise the other torp squad is dropping I turn away from that squadron, and try to position myself between the Torps that I was sailing along with and the Torps from side generally miss...
If anyone understand what I tried to say.. Your a genius XD.. But.. There are ways to avaoid cross drops in DDs.. If I can.. We all can :P
Another thing.. Is.. To fit between the drop that comes from the side.. You must come very close to one of the Torps from the drop from behind you, this gives you a larger distance to make the turn :)
The Montana in H10 was afk on the phone, thus why he was humping the wall xD
maybe after the cv overhaul, Midway will finally get to roflstomp the Hakuryu like it is supposed to
IJN CVs make me sick
You make me sick. Wargaming hates the USN lines anyway so it doesn’t even matter. If Midway does roflstomp the Hakuryu like that, it will get wacked so hard by the nerf bat that the likes of Shokaku will roflstop it. So keep dreaming.
@@savikrish1 can you even read?
Yes I can read you moron. I can see very clearly that you want Midway to stomp it’s Japanese counterpart. Anyone who has played this game knows that Wargaming won’t EVER let any USN ship completely crush it’s counterpart like that. I can quite easily conclude that you’re biased and that you want USN carriers to dominate. Also, fix your English. My five year old cousin brother writes better than you do and English isn’t even his first language.
Tactics based on economy rather than on winning (even though 10 economy is awful) sounds like some DD hunting an empty CV in map corner would say.
keep up the good work
Saving private Potato.
saving (er... roasting...?) the potato fleet to be exact.
Do better than the enemy carrier in the game, anihilate his aircraft, lose the game, still get blamed. The story in the life of a Carrier player.
But on the na server the hakuryu has the highest average exp
Flamu, when you say "permanent flooding", the term you're looking for is "full-duration flooding". Permanent means that it lasts forever; flooding and fires are inherently temporary.
Full-duration means that it lasts for the entire duration (or time) of the fire/flooding.
Ömer Bekcioglu The full flood does 60% damage. So yeah.
By context, we all know what it means though. TBH, "full-duration", or similar terms are just too bothersome to say. So "Permanent", or just "perm flooding" is better.
Who needs XVM? Just play CVs and you see everything!
I feel Taiho is far better tier per tier then the mighty Haku
God this thing was ridiculous in old RTS. If you timed it right you could basically just one shot a battleship at the start of the match and there was nothing you could do about it, cross dropping was also super busted on this ship as it basically made it impossible for dds to dodge the incoming attack, also air dropped torpedoes used to deal as much damage as those launched from destroyers. Glad Hakuryu isn’t as busted as it was in RTS, but my only complaint, is why did the fuck did they have to go and give them Armour piercing bombs, I mean like what the fuck wargaming.
Zao???????????
Carriers = Potato guards :D
well they are called *carriers* after all :P
I'll show myself out
You better do...
The best T8 is the Lex ;) Ranked battle 244k dmg, 4 kills, Defeat.
I can't afford playing it anymore. I loose to much in random battles if the team looses :/
Their economy is tuned a bit too low for CVs, but they still are so devastating that they can't have a normal economy.
WG went with the idea that if most of the players who don't uderstand CVs whine that they are OP then their number has to be reduced by not making them affordable anymore.
We will not give up WG, you gave us CVs and we're gonna play the shit out of them anyways! :D
And maybe if we yell long and loud enough they will actually do some (possitive) changes to the class.
Well, CVs are op by design. They are the only class that can attack ships at the other end of the map without ever getting attacked themselves. The only counter against CV is to stay together and even then it will only prevent the carrier from going after you while it doesn't mean you can actually attack the CV.
If it would be up to me they might as well cut them from the game. It just isn't fun when your team loses because your carrier player is a potato while the carrier of the other team knows, what he is doing. If that is the case, you are already fighting an uphill battle, just because 1 out of 12 guys sucks at the game.
Yeah and it's so much fun when there's, idk, a Yamato, bunked in a cap with an island on one of his flank, and angled vs everything else in your team. No carrier in game ? Well, congratulation you lost this cap for like 3 minutes, which is the required time for your whole fleet to kill this Yamato.
Btw, CV may be the only ship you can't shoot back at, but it's the only ship that you can be pretty much immuned to. I mean, other ships don't get their shells vaporized while approaching your ships, carrier does. The "OP by design because you can't shoot back at them" argument is typical for those who're ranting against CVs without having played them past T6. Because if it was the case you'd know that there are some situations where you're totally out and absolutly can't do anything. Which never happens in any other classes.
the only way to earn money without premium and camos is by tanking, have to tank those BBs yo.
i play 2 CV games minimum to keep my edge :) shokaku and taiho ftw
Great game, in a CV
17:21
"Absolutelfucking shit", lol, wg put an extra rng on you i guess ;)
Sweet!!!!!
When CVS where fun and not lagging.. Stupid exit strafe bullshit
I don't like carriers at all. In a game that is so reliant on teamwork it's not fun to have a class of ship that influences the battle outcome so heavily. It's also not fun to play against a ship that can delete you whenever it pleases with zero risk of retaliation. Sure you can avoid being deleted by sailing as a fleet but why should it take so many ships to counter just the one enemy ship? It's a mechanic that encourages lemming training. Carriers are in my opinion the worst part about this game. Hopefully the next update will mitigate the problem instead of making it worse.
+MegaRaven100 If a carrier finds himself outnumbered and vulnerable late game it's usually because the enemy carrier did a better job at carrying his team. Yes they can be taken out at the beginning by the enemy AIRSTRIKE (carriers again). Which puts the entire team at an advantage/disadvantage right from the start just because of the one player. It's simply not a good mechanic in a team oriented game. Additionally, it becomes easier to predict where destroyers are and when torpedoes are coming with experience. The same is not true for carriers. Planes strike squadrons can come in at any moment, drop from any direction, and move on. Even if you have defensive AA they can just come back when it's on cool down. There's simply not much that can be done to counter them (provided the carrier is experienced).
My ship Is A ""Gneurshk"""
r/unexpectedbillwurtz
#midwaywastheproblem
Hello 👋
CV economy was still questionable. You do spot and killed underaged ship, you spot enemies, you took down many planes and your credits are still.. ehhh
#1 to mee :D #Admiral_Putin FTW
POI
POI
Poi~ ♡
Midway :D
so salty towrads allies this vid :) musta had a few bad squads inraow lol
It's more because that CVs get a birds's-eye view of their team being retards, and there's only so much they can do about it. They can see failure coming 20 miles away, and if they can't solve the problem themselves they can only tell their team what to do. And we all know how well relying on your team tends to work.
OP & MUST BE NERFED TO HELL!
frst
Tier 10 and 9 carrier are just too OP ,thet should be nerfed !
stop doing hellohello pls, its dumb
Yichen Li Its Flamu's trademark.
It doesn't stop it from being a bad one
I don't think it is a bad one. (Sorry for being rusty he said, it's been a long time he said)