Pro-Ject Tube Box S2 Turntable Preamp Review
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- Опубликовано: 5 мар 2020
- A lot of inexpensive tube phono preamps actually rely on solid-state amplification. Pro-Ject Audio's Tube Box S2 doesn't -- it's a "true" tube design. So does the quality match its pricetag?
Pro-Ject Tube Box S2 product page: www.project-audio.com/en/prod...
Featured music: "Let It Go" by Dan Mason (danmason.bandcamp.com/album/f....
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Music: "Kids On the Porch", "Morning Coffee" and "Up There in the Clouds" by Epidemic Sound (www.epidemicsound.com). 
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That subsonic filter button is SUPER useful and was always included in vintage equipment.. without it the bass can feedback through the amp and magnify making your woofers go bananas and you have to turn it down. I had a young buddy take the vintage Marantz I gave him to the shop thinking something was wrong. they said nothings wrong. I didn’t know this was happening and while on the phone I told him to crank it up. He yelled “ damnit it’s doing it again!” I laughed and said “ hit the low frequency filter button” .... GONE. Oddly most new Recievers don’t have this button even though vinyl is back in a big way. This preamp would work wonderfully for this. Peace
Thanks for the in-depth review, Colin! We really enjoyed the video!
I got one of these preamps second hand with the original tubes. I have absolutely no idea how long they've been used but the preamp sounds absolutely incredible. This was an upgrade from a Behringer PP400.
I've been looking to upgrade from my current Bellari V129 without breaking the bank, and this one is on my radar. I like the fact that, unlike my Bellari, the tubes on the Pro-Ject play a more pivotal role in shaping the sound. My system pre-amp is a Conrad Johnson PV11L with a tube output stage. In my mind, you can't get enough tubes.
This comment is amazingly prescient. I recently bought a VP129, and have just pulled the trigger on a tube box with dedicated linear power supply for that exact reason. Did you make the purchase yourself, and if so, how have you found the switch?
Thanks for the review 🙂
I feel there is a difference between brand new non warmup, and the rest, especially in the bass 🙂
I could hear a very clear difference after the 45 minute warm up for the better. I've been looking and trying out many preamps and it's outside what I want to spend but I'm gonna try the Tube Box S2.
I really love your videos. Thank you. There’s a really special quality to them, very personal. Amazing production work.
I owned one of these for a year, not a bad preamp at all. I had many hours of happy listening. Stereo imaging was better after it warmed up, I just left mine on all the time so it was always ready to go. Ended up replacing it with an Avid Pulsus, but that’s in a different league altogether. But I definitely got my money’s worth from the Tubebox 2.
I have always kept my Audio Alchemy phono preamp in the on position, and it is never turned off. From a dead cold start-up it sounds anemic and soulless if not warmed up.
Thank you for your review.
Love these vids man, very informative and well done. One thing though - when you're doing the audio comparisons might it be an idea to switch between samples on the 2nd or 3rd bar of a phrase, rather than on the one? Just that sound elements tend to come and go from the music at the moment you are switching over - say new percussion or a synth line - which makes it tricky to compare 'like for like'.
Keep the analog gear breakdowns coming, love it!
This thing really brought my system to life.... It brought out that extra oomph that it was missing! Most stuff sounds great at 43 on the gain setting but some heavier music gets to too much overdrive so I have to dial it back to 40 to clean it up. The Subsonic filter is an interesting little addition that just seems to sort of clean up the sound overall.
Even though the audiophile world is steeped in snake oil, that A-B test did make a noticeable difference, even after the compression. Listening on Senn HD 598.
Now I really want it!!! 😍😍😍
Like your honesty.
I could clearly hear the warmer sound of the pre-amp after the 48hr burn-in (HUGE) difference from straight out the box and 45min warm-up. If I could hear that with my Sennheiser head phone off a youtube video. Than in person results will be out of this world! I'M SOLD!!!
I'm not sure if it's a placebo effect by expecting the audio to sound better but I really do think I heard a difference after burn in, in a good way! Another great video Colin.
Great video subscribed
I could clearly hear a dif between cold start and waem up & burned in. Burned in but cold start the sound is full but top end very clear, ....and with a warm up also the top end get ritcher.
The differences are not huge but I could hear them, even wioth my very low budget earphones.
Woukd love the see a family comparison in between the different pro-ject phono stages from cheap up to the big Daddy RS2
While it may not be the end all be all, it’s a cool way for people to get into tubes for not too much money. I personally think most solid state pres will be good for about 90% of people into hi-fi, although I could defiantly see the loar into trying out tubes in your system.
Również kupiłem miesiąc ten ten przedwzmacniacz do gramofonu pro-ject classic. Wkładka Ortofon Blue. Całość gra przepięknie !
i have this Project Tube Box S2 for 2 months now. Paid 700usd for it in 220-240vac.Runs hot to touch but not so hot that you cant touch or carry it. The stock tubes are good but not great with slight edginess, bright forward sound, even after 3 weeks of play.
I rotated the 12Ax7 tubes with Black Saber / Electro Harmonix Gold Pins / Tung Sol / JJ Tesla .... The Project now sounds stunning. The interconnects from the this Project to a Parasound JC2 preamp are very low capacitance ATlas Phono Van DEn Hull NAme or Audioquest Mackenzie or WAter cables.
I also rotated the cheapo wall wart supplied power adapter with a heavy duty linear custom made power supply with better amperage. The Project is now mesmerising with hours of non stop listening pleasure .
The build quality is awesome. Made in Slovaka EU. I think Project should keep its production in EU and not elsewhere. Being an Austrian EU brand. I dont mind paying more for top notch quality products made there just like others made in the US / UK / AUSTRALIA.
Hi could you tell me which are the best tubes you have tried ... the ones you like the most? also the power supply with which model did you replace it? thanks a lot
Same request, which tube do you like best?
Can you update the tubes used please? Thanks.
warm-up made an obvious improvement in bass, burn-in was almost negligible
Vocals were clearer after burn-in. Agree about the bass.
I completely agree. Clear improvement in bass with warm-up.
Having a tube pre-amp without a tube amplifier is dumb.
Frankly, tubes do have a sound of their own, but they cannot hold a candle to good quality solid state. They are high in distortion. Just look at the specs of American hi fi equipment of the 60s. That is the PINNACLE of tube equipment.Nothing you can buy today even comes close! These were many hundreds of dollars in the 1960s. These things would be 10k dollars today.
Solid state blows them away, especially at the high end. Tube equipment does not handle high frequencies very well.
@@tarstarkusz As someone who has owned vintage and modern tube gear, I'm going to politely disagree with you. Manufacturing tolerances for key parts has improved, in particular transformers and capacitors.
@@ChrisMag100 I've also had tube and solid state equipment.
Transformers have not changed in a 100 years. At BEST you can say the coating is better on the wire itself, and of course, isn't 100 years old.
Most of that old equipment and even new (tube) equipment don't need great capacitors. The capacitors were fine when they were new, maybe a tendency to be a bit high (but still within spec, like 20%), but they didn't use cheap caps where good caps are needed. Other types of caps haven't changed.
Back then, matching transformers were a dime a dozen. There hasn't been high quality consumer grade matching transformers made in a long, long time.
I love tube stuff and have a bunch of it. There is a reason solid state blew tubes away in sales. In the high end, they sound better. In the low end, tubes can sound better and certainly do sound different.
I got one of these to use with a 2M Red, wow does this little preamp make Burt Bacharach vintage records sound smoooooth !
I think I'm going to buy one.
what I hear is difference between no warm-up an warm-up, (on both tests) however I don't hear difference between pre/post burn in. The cold ones lack low freq, and is to busy in higs (I understand its called "bright" in audio therm)
Good review
Great video! Ortofon Red though🙉
Thanks for this video. I have a Pro-ject Classic SB with an Ortofon Red Quintet MC cart, running through a Rogue V3 built in phono preamp. Do you think the (now) $500 cost will justify the purchase of "better" sound? Gotta say that right now I love the sound of my vinyl with great recordings, so I am not disappointed with my current rig in any way. Thanks for any insight on this...
Near the end of this video I just recognized you were wearing a 3D Blast shirt 😄
Comparisons should hold the sound used constant instead of a rolling sample
Question: the pre-amp manual says that the 2M red should be set to 147pF (47 + 100) DIP 3 ON.
However, the ortofon cell manual specifies that the 2M red has an input capacitance between 150 and 300pF. Wouldn't it be better to set the pre-amp to 267pF (47+220) DIP 2 ON?
Thanks
I heard the warm up samples for both pre and post burn in to have a rounder bass tone. Not woolly, but more low bass tone giving a stronger impact. Kind of interesting.
great review...love the format, and just bought the S2 after seeing this...thanks again
How is it ?? Has it improved your set up
@@shanec6664 did it sound better????
@@frederickfranchi6408 I havnt got one yet , what amp you rocking?
@@shanec6664 A main with a tube buffer. My bro has the pro ject it does sound really good 😀
@@shanec6664 that's a Mani
In Austria cost around 300 euro incl. VAX. Ok Pro-Ject is a Austrian manufacter.
I'm considering this preamp along with a Rega MM Mk5 to go with my Rega P2 and AT-VM540ML cartridge. I currently have it hooked into the phono plugs on my Denon AVR, but I have to crank up the sound if I want the same sound level as when playing a disc or watching TV. I'm trying to see if my local dealer will let me take one of each to test out for a week or two and return the one I didn't like as much.
nice video. Whats the specification of the tubes for replacement?
I could definitely tell the difference between burn-in and non burn-in. The burn-in had a more musical tone.
How did he not notice the difference. I could close my eyes and tell exactly when it switched. The bass was much more pronounced in the Warm-Up sample. Am I crazy? I thought it was placebo at first but then I sat there letting it play with my wife watching and my eyes closed and turned away from monitor and was dead on right every time I said it changed according to my wife.
Best preamp review I've ever watched
the 45 minute warm up didn't seem to do a lot for the audio, but after the 48hour burn-in there was subtle differences in the clarity and warmth of the mids. I know tubes do take a little time to stabilise, so that delay on start-up is good as it stops that initial distorted music until the tubes reach full emission, at about 10 to 20 seconds. But 45 minute warm up is really unnecessary.
That delay only prevents signal passing , it does not protect the tubes !
Do you think this pre-amp would work well with a Audio Technica LP120? I'm looking for an upgrade, but can't afford a new turn table along with a tube pre-amp.
It takes a extremely high quality well set up system to tell any difference at all in my experience. The stuff compressed by youtube I couldn't tell the difference even switching to my main listening system. I'd suggest to spend your money on a decent record player and a good clean amp before even considering shelling out a lot on a advanced preamp for your phono stage.
Theres sligtly more bass after warm-up and even more so after the burn in. The burn In is also higly dependent on the tubes used.
Dan Mason is so good dude. His new record is great
I have the Tube Box DS . Turntable is fitted with Ortofon Cadenza Blue..... no complants here.
I think it's your hearing. I could easily tell the difference with burn-in. The cymbals had a much better sound. Usually I hear better decay, when I've notices better sound. And this was there, but there was significantly better attack attack from the cymbals with the burn-in. What I did notice, more so with the warm-up was improved decay for before burn-in. Oddly I didn't hear an improvement in cymbals after the burn-in, it was just better better without the warm-up but persisted. The burn-in also gave the sound a better overall with longer sustained harmonics in the vocals and mids. Drums and bass also had a distinct snap that wasn't there with without the burn-in. If you didn't hear this, either your hearing is bad and maybe you should consult a doctor. I will say that I did used to play drums and if you've ever tuned drums, you learn to listen for particular things in tonal quality of how the sticks sound against the drum head. So maybe I just know what drums and percussion should sound like. Really this stuff is there and it's plain as day. I will say that improvements in audio are alway very slight, if their is any. And I've no doubt that many don't care about this stuff. But I get particularly annoyed if I've heard a recording that that sounds off, even slightly. I'm not even familiar with the music on the video and frankly I didn't actaully care for it. But that annoyance kept reoccuring everytime the audio switched back to the pre-burn-in clips.
Offering a link to a non-copyrighted FLAC 192khz 24 bit file would cover you well enough to eliminate most concerns. Then differences should be most evident. Or, copyrighted same equal would suffice.
To my ears in my headphones the only Sound option that sounded better to me was after warm up burn in didn't make a difference
Would it be helpful to put this between your turntable and a vintage receiver. I like my cassette and even cd player as well. They're hooked to the receiver.
I was blown away by the rich sound when I coupled the Tube Box S2 with my Pro-Ject turntable. Unfortunately the right channel on the Tube Box S2 drops off the right channel after 4 to 5 minutes. I assume it's one of the tubes over heating. Not really sure. I don't have a tube tester like the ones that available at retail stores. Any suggestions.
Did you ever get to the bottom of your issue? I too have a PJ TT and am interested in this component. Do you recommend it? Hope you don’t mind the question.
I would switch the tubes from left to right to see if the problem is with the tube
@@ronthompson5372 I contacted Pro-Ject service center in the twin cities and was told my Tube Box S2 was still under warrantee. The only problem I had was that Pro-Ject specified that returns must be sent in the original box. I don't usually keep boxes around. I tend to recycle them. I packed the Tube Box in as much cushioning as I cold fit the box I used and a few weeks later I received a new Tube Box S2. I read ALL of the writing on the box and sure enough they specially advise buyers to keep the packaging or risk the loss of their warrantee rights. Thanks anyway for the idea. I'm really impressed with the sound that my pro-ject turntable and Tube Box preamp provide. My vinyl collection is approximately 2,000 plus and my records sound incredible.
I have the solid state S2
I wonder how much difference there would be in sound between the S2 and the Tube Box S2
I would be really disappointed if I bought the Tube Box S2 and couldn’t tell any difference at $400 plus tax
@@ronthompson5372 The first time I experienced the Tube Box S2 was at a vinyl store in Minneapolis that sold new and high quality used LPs. The store had two turntables set up at the back end of the counter so that customers to check out the used LPs before purchasing. They had the two turntables I had, a Project Debut and an Audio Technica lp-120. both had Tube box preamps attached and headphones with volume knobs. My comparison convinced me to buy the Tube Box S2. Previously I bought a Rolls phono pre amp (solid state) and didn't notice any improvement so I bit the bullet and paid the $400. I have been building my LP collection since the early 1970's. When I began conserving my 2,000+ collection I was stunned at how rich the sound was. I expected to hear pops, crackles and hiss. Instead each LP sounds like it did the day I bought it. I didn't realize how well I treated my vinyl. So far I have only found 6 records that need had noticeable scuffs/scratches out of the 250 conserved so far. The best way to make your decision is to shop at a vinyl store that has as a turntable with a Tube Box S2 attached. It's hard describe the incredible sound.
Поздрави от България. Колко волта е анодното напрежение?
There's more bass after the 45-min warmup and still more after the 48-hour burn-in!
Yes I did also notis that. I also have a hi end HiFi from a old Norwegian manufacturer that As a rival for Bowers & Wilkins, some will argue better. Maybe a good stereo is the trick to notis, since few did notis.
Same Experience for me, More bass after 45 min warm up.
Blown after a 48 hour warm up. 😔
Same for me and there was a Lot more reverb and not sustain as well as a richer presentation for the last sample.
Do the tubes light up when they are working?
All tubes light up when they are powered. Some less expensive manufacturers take the cheesy route of mounting an LED below the tube socket to give this super fake glow. There’s zero audible benefit, and could actually introduce noise in the signal path if poorly implemented. Let me correct myself...LED’s under a tube socket is a poorly implemented circuit.
do you troubleshoot why only one speaker works after connecting the turntable?
I have just installed one of these and it sounds too quiet. Connected to line level. Any suggestions?
Can i use this in my chain - after the dac & before the headphone amp?
I have a Bifrost multibit feeding into a Asgard 2 (pure class A amp), will introducing this tube preamp (as a preamp to the Asgard) be a good idea? Will it make my sound too boated? I have never tried a tube sound and am tempted to get one. Any advice will be greatly appreciated!
Got this since 3-4 years now , sounds so good that I think ab a second one.
It’s a lot better after u Made a secondground to the housing and the amp itself, it’s not a real earth u get over the power unit that u get with it.
& u should think ab getting a othofon black catridge…. Sound s so much better
The self warmup procedure is not surprising to me. I've played Hammond organs before. You won't even get a sound out of them until the tubes warm up a bit.
I do think the burning up sounded more rich and more rounded if it's possible. In comparison with the sound without burning and 45 minutes only, for me soud the same, but after the 48h straight buring i feel a trully gain in the sound with more rich and a fludi vibe. I really like much more, and my earings too.
Would this improve sound on my Gakken EZ Toy recordmaker turntable?? 😏
The development and manufacturing is outsourced by Pro-ject to Canor Audio in Prešov, Slovakia.
good review. i guess the big question is, are you still using it?
I do indeed!
from 4:15 - 5:15 it kinda sounded like the track sound kept getting deeper and more layered
Looking for something like this and it ticks all my box's, now can I afford it?
I think the warm up sounded better in the low end and ha warmer.
Love this, but I can’t afford it yet. Does this pre-amp work with, or separate from internal pre-amp in the receiver?
The manual says you should never connect a Line signal (which is what pre-amp generates) to the input.
Which means it does not work with any pre-amps. You may even damage the device.
you could simply run this phono preamp thru any auxillary input on your amp/receiver. NEVER attach a phono preamp to a phono input on an amp/receiver.
Hi how change Tube in my Project Tube Box Ds preamplifier? I my model Tuba are in some kind of holder and can't remove it. Regards
Yes hello have you got your gain setting on 40 or 43 and on the bottom have you got 100pf or 220pf
Set for the ortofon cartridge
Cheers
Should I get this over the schiit Mani?
Hi Vogue yes if you have really good equipment it is better than the s*** Mani but three times better no if you have a low output moving coil cartridge I would recommend the project but if you have a moving magnet like a nakaoka 110 150 the s*** Mani almost as good with a tube buffer✌
Even without headphones, you can hear the fullness and bottom frequencies after the 45-minute warm-up.
Just got this in and I'm finding it difficult to find the dip switch settings for the cartridge I have which is the Audio Technica AT95E Phonograph MM Cartridge I keep trying different settings but all I get is loud distortion. New to the hobby as you can tell, can anyone help?
The no warm up. No burn in sounded worse by far. It was congested and lacked dimension
Is this phono pre close to EAR phono classic
Dont forget a matching rca cable from it to preamp
Why do you use a Vinyl with Wave for the Video 4:20 :D
Amazing, an 'add on' tube box where the tubes are actually doing something other than buffering.
Not sure I like the digital volume control, pointless unless teamed up with a remote, that this does not have.
Some regard those switching IC's as a point of audio loss, a conventional pot would have been better/simpler.
It's not a volume control
It's a gain setting to match with your phonograph output. Moving magnet cartridges have a much higher output than moving coil cartridges. This allows you to compensate for the much lower output signal.
Many other tube preamps only work with moving magnet cartridges due to the lack of gain adjustment.
Control your final volume with your amplifier, not the preamp.
Its an input setting, not a volume control.
the mids slightly increased. Anyone agree
does anyone know the recommended settings for a 2m blue stylus and this pre amp?
Should be a "3" on each channel
So, I'm using an old pioneer with a phono input. Do I really need a preamp and use different input or is my receivers built in one good enough?
I have an rt85 on the way. My numark tt-100 I've been using sounds great to me with my receivers phono input.
Try the new turntable with your receiver’s phono input and see if you like it - if not, then consider a separate preamp.
I have a vintage 1979 Pioneer receiver. I love the gain on the phono input, it is better than any of the 3 preamps I have tried. That is not to say there were not benefits to those preamps but I never had one that offered selective gain and adjustability like this Project does. You have a really nice TT so if you can, try out a few and see what sounds best....they all seem a bit different sounding to my ears.
More than 700$ with tax in Canada, I guess I'll pass for this year but great review thanks!
LOL Project uses good parts that's why it doesn't matter so much. You need to let it warm up for 5-10 min to kind of settle in
the bass guitar seems to have more sustain after warm up.
what a wally touching tubes with the hands
How much?
Good reviews. You may want consider a desser for your voice audio. I'm using pro headphones to hear your reviews.
It seems to me that you should have an industry standard value phono pre as a reference to beat. The Schiit Mani is the obvious choice and the question is, does the Pro-ject Tube Box offer anything at a much higher price point. Some of my old audio friends have told me they're tired of having to replace tubes, one has gone all digital on his power amps and says I turn it on and it works, every time! Is there any logic to using a tube phono pre as very expensive EQ? Also, measure and report the frequency response. Perhaps I should do this instead of suggesting it to you.
The U-turn Pluto is another good low cost reference right at about $100.
Why did you choose a Hioki meter rather then a Flue?
I think Hioki’s build quality is higher than Fluke meters at the same price point.
But Colin (@This Does Not Compute ).. is there nothing decent to compare it with........ warm-up or no warm-up.. is nothing to compare it........ what happend with you beautiful SONY SRT?? .. that's a way to tell if it sounds good or not....
How about their cheap $89 phono preamp, and the $129?
I personally am not interested in a $400 phono preamp when so many other cheaper options are out there, but it’s nice to see good build quality and features on one of these for sure. I’d be curious to hear A) a quiet track like the solo piano you did on your preamp shootout B) this compared to the $99 U-turn Pluto.
But aren't you asking for an apples-to-oranges comparison? There are plenty of less expensive and not bad-sounding pre-amps out there, but most are solid state amplification, even those with tubes. The Pluto you are suggesting is 100% solid state, has no gain control, no cartridge customization, and no MC capability. Does having each of those features justify the $300-$400 price premium for the Pro-Ject? Maybe... It's a lot easier to justify than than a $5000 Macintosh, but, again, probably not an apt comparison.
@@leovolz311 I take your point, although I'm not sure a comparison of two phono preamps in the sub-$500 category would quite count as apples to oranges. Sometimes people enjoy hearing a comparison to a point of reference they're familiar with as a sort of "control," and I think (if i remember right back to six months ago) my request was in that spirit.
Are tube amplifiers really supposed to have muffled treble like that...?
How do you know it's not just the recording?
No
dude what a nice shirt
I didn't hear a difference between warmups/etc either, and my hearing is good.
It's not your ear, it's probably RUclips 🙃
@@FuyukiSakura yeah, compressed sound.
The burn in makes no difference in these kind of preamps because the tubes in these really dont modify sound theyre just filters that give a bit of tube warmth. It doesnt give enough improvement for the high price it costs
When the tube is warm, the bass becomes a little bit louder, that´s the difference!
Well, as you already alluded to, this kind of music is not really helpful when judging sound quality. You need actual acoustic instruments, classical music and jazz. As for the reason the relay does not come on for some seconds, it's because it's waiting for the tubes to reach their operating temperature. It's literally "warm -up", not in the sense often used in hifi. The principle of the function of the tubes is based on them being warm, it's not about Pro-ject "believing in warm-up"! :)
Question can I hook this to an integrated tube amp (essentials tube to tube)
Upgrade to the 2M bkack. Huge gain in transparency. My friend with a 5k moving coil cartridge, was impressed with the level of detail. When the tubes fully warm up, a sense of 3d space can appear if the system is balanced.
Balanced means, no bias whether left or right. It all gets posted and monetized.
@Lagunakid24 I have had mine for a few years and it is fine. It may cost more than blue, but it costs less than a moving coil which does not have a replaceable stylus. So with the black you get the detail retrieval of a good MC, but with a replaceable stylus.
Is this pre same level as EAR phono classic?
for those interested in tube amps, I recommend the little dot MK II, it sounds great with a little tube roll (mullard CV 4010), I use it with my HD600 and the sound quality is amazing
Honestly, what makes tubes great is when they're clipping. The distortion is so musical that it sounds like the music is even louder than it actually is.
It sounds like the high mids open up a little after the 45 minute warm up.
I heard the same. The burn-in did nothing for me, though.
I wan't to listen if there is a difference between an integrated preamp and this one.
Me too....I have a Rogue V3