I actually left one comparison point off the list; player count range. Endless Winter plays well at 2, 3 and 4. Arnak as well, and Dune Imperium suffers at 2 or fewer. I haven't played any of them solo so I can't comment there.
Joel over at Drive-Thru-Review (one of my most respected sources of information as far as reviews are concerned) recently released a review for Arnak and he specifically mentioned he enjoyed the solo-mode a lot despite not usually being someone to play or like games solo, so there's that!
@@wtfbruhnonono4696 I am curious about this too. Because the reviews I have seen so far, most seem to like the solo mode so I would guess 2 player should be similar since it is basically the same. I have seen some reviewers that did not enjoy it though. Just haven't seen it specifically called out at 2 players though.
I found Dune to play rather well with 2, especially if you get the official app for running the bot. However, you will want to house rule a way to make the card market move faster (there’s now even an official variant coming with the Ix expansion). As for solo, Arnak is one of the best solo games out there, and Dune is a really good solo as well. They both manage to be enjoyable with bots that are very easy and low maintenance to run
me too. Preordered Arnak after playing online at BGG@home which was really great. Saw the game play of Dune and Endless winter and both looks great as well. I think I realized that I like that combination of worker placement and deck management.
Pretty cool format to compare games with very similar mechanics in such a head-to-head way. Really helps to decide which game to get when money/space/time is tight. Overlays would be cool where you show what category you are currently talking about.
Heya just wanted to say thank you so much for your channel, me and my dad got into playing board game because of you and we’re having a great time :) our first Kickstarter game will arrive around Father’s Day, and I’m looking forward to it.
I ordered Dune Imperium and as reviews come out I'm feeling happy with my choice. I'm not particularly invested in the theme, but the lack of interactivity in Arnak is a big strike against it for me. And the double-use cards and bidding combat in DI seemed really interesting.
So this is more of a Play This and This and This, huh? I'm definitely interested in Arnak and Dune, once my wallet heals a little after the abuse it suffered this last weekend. And excellent job abstaining from extreme hand movement!
Though not "scientific", I really appreciate the breakdown you gave. It's the only video I've found on these three that is both thorough and concise. After your analysis, I can be confident in my purchase of Dune. With the ease of teach and multi use worker/card implementation strengths going for it, I can say for sure that this game is right for my collection. Thanks Board Game Co.
Very interesting video. Thanks for the depth you put into this. I wish you'd do a quick addendum video addressing the SOLO play and comparison of that. These days that has become an important part of my own game purchase decision and it seems as though for other gamers' too.
Great video, love your structured and easy to follow approach! I have noticed in various videos about these games over many channels, that the term worker placement is used in a very general way, for any mechanism in which you have some kind of markers (call it worker or not), which you place on a common board to select an action. I actually think the original worker placement does include always a restriction regarding how many different players may use the same action in a round. If your placement doesn't reduce the choice of the follwoing players, I use the term "action selection. In other words, if you could use instead of a common board, an individual board for each player, it's action selection, but if a common board is mandatory because if you use an action, other can't, it's worker placement. So in Endless Winter, I'd talk about action selection ,with a bonus each round for the first player to use the action.
Alex ... I'm very impressed with the thoughtfulness, timeliness, and your anticipation of what your viewers would like to know. Thought it was going to be a 3-way tie so glad it did not come out that way!
Good video. I would propose another category: "Analysis Paralysis". It seems that a game like EW has so much going on with so much fiddliness that it would lend itself to a lot of AP. Which might make final scoring even closer among the 3 games.
I preordered Arnak & Dune for what it would cost me to get Endless. Arnak felt very accessible and could be played by almost anyone, while Dune if I wanted a more interactive experience. Sounds like interpretation of the two games were correct. I will say that the theme in Dune is stronger if you understand the factions as described in the book and how they implemented them into the game. Are you planning on playing Viscounts, its got a worker placement deck builder feel to it.
With the release of expansions for Dune and Arnak, has your ranking changed any? Hopefully my copy of Endless Winter will arrive by the end of October. All in all great video.
Thanks for this overview. I was looking forward to it. When comparing components, did you consider the deluxe upgrade for Dune or just the base game? The upgrade does double the cost. I'll probably settle on Arnak in the end. Dune sounds too combative (take that) for my group & Endless Winter may be "too much" for what my group likes (too many options & fiddly). Sounds like Arnak might hit the sweet spot for us. Thanks!
Great video! I already was thinking of purchasing Lost Ruins of Arnak, and based on the categories I care about most, it only confirmed my want to purchase it!
Thank you Alex so much for all the content you put out on this channel. It might feel weird as there's so much kickstarter content and I'm someone who doesn't plan on backing kickstarters but I have found your videos informative, thoughtful and entertaining. This video in particular was really helpful and one I anticipated as I was keen one all three but only really needed the one. Arnak seems more suited to my needs out of the three as my game group is more casual and I play a lot with my partner.
Dune is my favorite by far. The locations and factions are so thematic. You need to read the book or watch the movie next year 😁. Also, I'm very excited about the miniatures upgrade pack coming Q1 2021. I've ordered Arnak for my friends' birthday. I'm completely not interested in Endless Winter.
Great way to compare by categories. In my opinion, it's a bit too much of a mashup, so I did a quick grouping of categories that would fit into either "gameplay" or "theme and beauty". So for gameplay, which is a bit of a more objective way of analyzing the games, if you consider only these 7 categories (Interaction, Integration of Mechanics, Multi-use Cards, Getting enough done, Worker placement options, wp tension and Fiddliness), you get a winner in Dune Imperium with 18 points, followed by Endless Winter with 14 and then Arnak with 10. In the "theme and beauty" perspective, which is also more subjective, with categories that are non gameplay related (Art, Theme, Playtime, Components, Comp vs price, Ease of Teaching and Modularity+expansions), Arnak and Endless Winter are tied for the win at 17, with Dune Imperium coming in last with only 9. As you said, for people who have read the Dune books, the theme comes out very strongly, so it could easily rise to 10 or more. One last important point is that for Dune Imperium they have announced a beautification expansion, coming out later in the year, with minis and premium resources. The board will remain kind of bland, but remember that this is a sand planet... not much contrast or beauty to be had there. While less pretty, it also distracts less, it is perfectly functional and allows the players to focus more on playing the game. In terms of player count, based on the BGG rankings, Arnak is clearly the stronger game with 1 and 2 players, while Dune Imperium shines with 3 and 4. Arnak is still considered to play best with 3, but seems to provide the worst experience with 4 players (probably due to down time between turns)
@@BoardGameCo I was wrong about the premium resources :( the upgrade pack contents are: 4 Alliance Token miniatures 12 Agent miniatures (with base rings) 1 Mentat miniature 48 Troop miniatures 1 First Player coin Card and component trays (from shop.direwolfdigital.com/products/dune-imperium-deluxe-upgrade-pack)
Hi Alex! Thank you for the video. Have you tried Viscounts of the West Kingdom? I'm curious to see how it could compare to Endless Winter and Arnak. The game has the deck building & semi- worker placement mechanism.
My FLGS is getting arnak for me this week so I’m excited about that. I preordered both dune and endless winter as well. It’s been a very good year for games and I think next year will be better
Awesome video. Kudos! I liked the categories you used and the rating method. As you mentioned, in the end each game gets a final value and it's difficult to glean what each game's final value means. Good to know that the final numeric value was in line with your subjective evaluation (i.e. top pick of the 3). I'm all for more 3 game comparisons. I found this video very helpful and informative! As always, thanks for sharing!
You owe it to yourself to read Dune. It's easily in my top 10 books and I've read many. I you do, I wonder it that will change your rating of the board game? My guess is that it will.
Fwiw, I respect Dune and I can see why it built such a cult-following, but the writing itself didn't really impress me at all to the point that it somewhat detracted from the enjoyment of the story for me. Maybe it's intentional, but it felt pretty detached and, for lack of a better word, cold to me, which made it hard to relate to the characters. Obviously a very subjective thing to say, but still.
It's the first time I watch a video like that. 3 games kind of related, and why I want them all. Really good concept. I think your method works as much as any others. I would just have used the basic points level of 5,3,1 points... But since everybody gets at least 1 point in every categories, it shouldn't affect your overall result. I fear Arnak might be a little too quick for me, but I'm intrigue about it's mechanic. I had no ideas about Dune and i will look deeper into it. As for Endless Winter, since i read a preview in August, I was attracted to it. After playing twice on TTS, I backed it with everything, except the deluxe components. Thanks again for another honest, very interesting presentation!
Great content!! I heard yourself recently saying in a video that Dune had felt down its ranking a little bit after many plays during last year. I have played it just a few times and it feels great. Has it got anything to do with the Intrigue Cards and its "randomness" and how crucial battles are after you have played the game enough? Cheers!!
Alex, nice to see one of these again. You mentioned about 6 months ago there was going to be a play this not that video for Street Masters. But then I never saw it. Did that ever come out? Theres a campaign on indigogo for new and all old content. I'd love to see that before going all in. Can you link that or let me know when it dropped, I can't find it. Love your work, keep it up!
Sadly earlier this year my computer and hard drive crashed. Along with the expense, four videos that I had filmed were gone forever including that one.
Thank you for the comparison super helpful. Like many others you pretty much single handedly sold me on endless winter so I am excited for that one next year. Arnak I’m sure I’ll be picking up at my FLGS this month. And then Dune looks interesting for sure but honestly think it will be one I’ll let someone else in my game group go for just not sold on that board and components for the price point
Totally agree here! For me, "just" looking very nice doesn't help in situations, where everyone is sitting around the table and is bored because there is no chance to compete against others... Just sitting there and doing your own stuff is not my style...
I recently stumbled across your channel and am thrilled with your format! The comparisons are great and help with decision making. Do you do this for older games as well? - E.g. Viticulture, Stone Age and Lords of Waterdeep for beginner worker placement games.
Indeed, real surprise right ;) although joking aside, when I was hyped for endless winter, I hadn't yet played at the other two. so there was every chance that the other two could overtake.
I saw in another video that arnak is a 'hand management' game. I found it very interesting to hear that instead of deck building... I really see that. And even more for Dune (as you win no points from buying cards in general). I have not played EndWin (sadly)
I thought you’d either choose Endless Winter or Lost Ruins. It was tough to pass on endless winter. I do like deck building, but I’ve discovered that worker placement is just not high up on my list of favorite mechanics. However, the art and theme on these games are lookin sooo good but shelf space and finances are what’s holding me back as well as my lack of excitement for worker placement games. Any chance on review videos for Tidal Blades and Dwellings of Eldervale in the near future? Would love to hear your thoughts on those games!!! Thank you once again for all that you do! 🙏 Edit: Also, would you play either of the three mentioned in this video over Dwellings and Tidal Blades? (if you have got a chance to play them yet)
It doesn't share the same mechanics that drove this convo :) that being said, while I enjoyed it and I'm happy to add it to my collection, it's much lower in how much I enjoyed it.
You left off one point: Availability. Dune Imperium was scheduled to be available Dec 14 but there are hints it may be delayed a little bit. Lost Ruins of Arnak reached port (U.S.) the week of Nov 11 so it should be available any day now. Endless Winter is scheduled for Dec 2021 and will probably make next winter really feel endless as it runs late due to KS-related "things". That means normal non-reviewer people will get to play the first two games for a whole year before they get a chance to play Endless Winter.
I missed the boat on Endless Winter. I preordered both Dune and Lost Ruins. Lost Ruins came in yesterday and i just finished my first game of it. Love it! Waiting on Dune for my comparison.
OBJECTION! ... If two games tie for first, the next one comes in **third**, not second. [grumble, grumble] But, seriously, thanks for this. I'm playing solo, so Dune's win on interaction puts the other two even further ahead for me. Now I need to watch your Arnak video, though.
Getting both Endless Winters and Arnak. I can already foresee Arnak getting more play because of how streamlined and easy it is to play. EW offers much more strategy which I love but I feel like I'll probably end up having to review the rules before every session. Might have even picked up Dune but my entertainment budget can only take so much!
Really nice comparison video, i can imagine this being one of the most asked for videos this/last month. The expansion comparison for a game that will release at the end of next year vs games coming out this year, feels a bit weird thou. While i understand the want for expansions for Arnak (heard several reviewers say it needs one) and Dune, by the time EW is in the hands of backers, it’s very possible that they have got one. Especially considering how hyped they are and how well they will probably sell.
I wasn't surprised to see Endless Winter come out on top with as much as you've said you've loved the game. Still in for a $1 with time to make up my mind. ;)
I'm so pleased Endless Winter hits so many key criteria and that it's your favourite. I went all in on KS for the first time for that one :) Long wait now.
Cards in arnak has pretty nice art. But i couldn't stand the location tiles. They look boring and very samey. However, i prefer the art more in D:I as it is more mature/adult. I don't like when art looks too "childlish". Hence never touching Everdell.
nice video for these three beast ... honestly dune made me love deck building which i hated before ... LROA is also doing the same for me ... i wonder how things changed and arnak ended up way higher on ur list of top games pf all time a few monthes ago ... and i think u can make a new video now that dune and arnak both have very very good strong expansions too ... might change the rank completely :))) dune also got delux pack which also is gonna shake the rank i assume :))) p.s ale ur the only channel on youtube i watch with normal speed ... :)))
How about Vindication compare to those ones ? Would it win against those 3 ? I defenatly hope Dune Imperium get some French translation someday Coz i'm gonna get that one so bad !
It was interesting hearing your experience with Arnak's play time and getting enough done. With over a dozen plays in, what I've found is that a 2-player game can last 3-4 hours, with the last round being an hour long. With more experience with the game, I've found when you really fine tune your deck (even exiling gold and compasses), when you are super strategic with daisy chaining your research with your exploration, there is SO much you can do in the 4th and 5th round. I will agree, I'm always left feeling I could have done one more thing, but this is true for many games and why I like them. If I were able to get it all done, I don't think there would be much satisfaction (or need) to hone one's strategy. Just my opinion, of course. I CANNOT wait for Endless Winter. I pre-ordered the bundle and based on your very real hype (and something about an evergreen ;), I am super excited!
I just played Dune Imperium for the first time yeasterday and I'm now super interested in this category of games. Looks like Dune has a cosmetic expansion coming soon. :)
Endless winter won't be in retail anytime soon so I will leave that one out of the picture for now... Theme aside (too subjective), I find Arnak way more innovative than Dune, which feels more like a classic worker placement/resource managment game with a pinch of deck building (already have similar games). Arnak on the other hand has variable and incremental worker placement spots, has two types of cards you can buy with different introductions to your deck, has changing ratios of those cards as the game progresses, has mini monsters/challenges to overcome, has a scale of travelling cards to reach certain destinations, and has assistants that can be upgraded. To me it's the fresher game.
I’m trying to choose which one is right for me now. I’m leaning towards arnak just because I go to my local game shop and play with random people. Endless winter seems difficult to teach one or god forbid two players.
I knew Endless Winter was your favorite but I still don't see it. The 4 action spots combined with generic 'labour' ressource does not speak to me. I would love to try it out though but not enough to spend money upfront for it :) The other two, well I have Arnak pre-ordered and Dune I would be interested in if I was not primarily playing two players only.
Yeah, after playing it on TTS, I found it really wasn't clicking for me or the people I was playing with. We gave it a second shot, but overall the appeal just wasn't there. I'm content that for me and my group, not spending my money on it was the right choice. Arnak did interest me more, but after some of the negative points Alex mentioned here that I don't think I quite picked up on as much in his review, so I'm now cautious on a purchase there. I'm lukewarm on Dune in general, so that one should be a relatively easy pass. Looks like I might be waiting for a second wave of worker placement / deck-building hybrids to get in on this particular genre.
I've tried Endless Winter a few times and it's too point salad-y for me, but I can see the appeal for others. I'm looking forward to both Lost Ruins and Dune.
Oh nice! That might sound surprising, but I'm actually excited. This is the first time I've seen a comment from someone who played it and didn't like it.
@@BoardGameCo I found the mechanics interesting, and this might just be our inexperience with it, but it felt like the three of us playing could each do our own thing and never intrude on the other players even more so than usual in Euro games.
True. Although sadly even with that upgrade kit I prefer the others in components....that upgrade kit just adds minis which wasn't the problem with the game.
For now as a regular (don’t have access to prototyps) bg player I played dune and have Arnak. I didn’t plan to buy Dune, thought I might play it one or two times. And based on your recommendations I produced (Late plate) Endless Winter (big box all-in). We will se hove it goes.
I appreciate the video, but given that Endless Winter does not technically exist yet and will not for at least a year, I will not consider it. I will grab Dune Imperium as it speaks to my likes and it is at a great price. Endless Winter could end up replacing Dune, but I just cannot compare a KS game to a game that is out on the market. Still, I am excited to get my hands on endless winter next year. Did you ever try Tyrants of the Underdark? Deck building and area control, one of my favorites!
I haven't played Endless Winter yet, I should try it on TTS or Tabletopia if it's available, but for Dune and Arnak, I agree with all your points. I'm pretty sure that when Endless Winter gets delivered I'm going to end up keeping all three too. :)
2 years later, I have finally played all 3 of these titles! From my perspective, these 3 games cannot be compared based on their mechanics alone, as each has its own unique position on the board game weightage scale. That being said, they all do a fine job in each of their weight classes! Here is my weight ranking for these 3 games: 1. Arnak (Lightest) 2. Dune (Medium) 3. Winter (Heavier) Also, curious to know what your opinion is on these 3 titles now that 2 years have passed! 😁
As a all in backer of endless backer, an owner of arnak and a buyer-in-waiting of dune, I'm quite happy :p Also arnak expansion coming this year, I'm even happier!
thanks alex, i have preordered dune and did the $5 pledge on endless winter but will likely go close to all in. It looks like lost ruins of arnak is sold out almost everywhere so i’ll wait on that and maybe pass if I enjoy the first teo
Endless (but not currently available) and then I'd pick Arnak vs Dune based on which word appeals to you more....components and arts, or more conflict and interplay.
The problem with this comparison is timing. I’ve paid for Endless Winter up front. Arnak is coming out soon and Dune sooner. Such the wrong order. Lucky, I’m just a collector! And where the heck are the mini’s of the Sandworm? The game that has those...
Actually everything makes sense thematically in Lost ruins of Arnak. There are no loose ends there. Dune has an abstracted track system that is giving you favor withing all the factions. Basicly that track could have been anything. Also just having 2 workers is not really fair to see it as a negative in my opinion. How everything else combines with that and that discovering new location always gives you bonuses, even if you don't defeat the guardian there gives you suddenly choices. And are multi use cards that important? depends on the mechanism. If a mechanism doesn't need it then it is not important and then it is not a fair comparison. And Arnak has the tension built in, can not disagree more on that little note. Also it is not really a fair comparison to compare a deluxe version of a game with the rest. I feel some of the "catagories" are are so narrow that it feels more of a personal comparison then a comparison that is made for me to decide ultimately. The rest of the review gave me more information on differences and similarities that would be more impactful on my buying decision. That being said i liked the rest of the review very much. I only have Lost Ruins of Arnak and curious to get the other 2. In which order? well if i could buy both right now then i don't know. As it stand Dune will be my next purchase because it is coming sooner. And in the end it doesn't matter because Arnak wins anyway because of your wife hahahahaha. So the review is redundant. Just joking.
Oh for sure, I just picked a whole bunch of categories as to why one would win over the other for me. But yes inherently all such things are subjective.
Both DI and LRoA are on their way to me. I'm hoping we enjoy DI well enough at 2P. I'm eyeing EW as a potential late backer but not convinced. Seems too fiddly and certainly expensive.
I know this is a relatively old video, but I discovered a new game and it reminded me of this video. Adventure Realms is also a worker placement, deck builder game, available print-on-demand right now. The 32-bit pixel aesthetics give me all kinds of nostalgia. I know print-on-demand games aren't really covered by this channel. They are as anti-value as they get. Instead of crowd funding and mass producing a product, print-on-demand games are literally produced individually, driving up the price. (Maybe a possible discussion topic?) These games are rarely covered by the RUclips crowd. They are usually ignored. And it's a shame, because it has really brought many great to my attention. If anything, I think the creators deserve more attention. --Anyway. If you have room for another worker placement, deck builder, I would be interested to hear your thoughts on this one.
Endless Winter was agonizingly boring. I was shocked how much I didn't care about anything in this game because there was so much going on with nothing actually happening.
It is a little bit sad that Dune: Imperium doesn't do much about theme. Its IP is so vast and rich and there is a lot of potential to implement it in the game, but alas. Honestly, I see the same mechanics working without a lot of issues for other IPs that feature rival factions, like for instance, A Song of Ice and Fire (or Game of Thrones, for those who haven't read the books). The other Dune board game, republished by Gale Force Nine in 2019, implements the IP's theme much better as the player factions are unique and reflect their literary origin very well. Its main downside is that it suffers on player count flexibility and it really shines only at a higher player count, like at least 4-5, and is best at 6.
Dune is more thematic than Arnak for sure (people over at BGG tend to agree), it totally gives you the tension and conflict true to the book. Arnak just paints a resource management game with a light vineer of "its an adventure" and pretty art, any story/theme beyond that you have to make up as you go (which is fine). Dune though, very thematic, scarcity of water, appeasing the factions, and many other mechanics. (I own both of those by the way)
Great video, certainly when I noticed all three of them and considered, like you, that they were playing in the same league;-) A friend of mine backed Endless Winter so I hesitated between Ruins and Dune. But Dune = theme (big Dune fan! Been waiting for this new movie for ages) + interaction = the winner for me ;-)
We had great hopes in Arnak. But we sold it after a few plays. In our first games it gave us this adventure spirit. What do I want to achieve this game? Do I want to discover lost places? Fight Monsters? Enter the temple or build my deck with powerful items and artifacts? But this is only the feeling the game is giving you. Not the reality. It is a race on the temple track to change your ressources in the most effective way to achieve the most steps. You simply can't win the game if you don't compete in this race. We tried different tactics but every time the player committing most to the temple track won the game. Even if he was only 4-5 steps ahead of you the point difference was so high you couldn't keep up, even with 4 monsters more killed or 8 cards more in your deck. It just isn't possible. And once we realised this fact the game lost all of it's appeal. It didn't feel like "Hey, let's explore this board". It felt like "How can I get my two scrolls into one diamond to get this last step before player b". And Endless Winter gives us this feeling. I want to invest in Megaliths or animal hunting or controlling the map regions and even racing the idol track if I want to. But none of this options seems more powerfull than the other. Most games come in at a very tight score at the end which is mindblowing given the sheer amount of mechanics in the game. We like Endless Winter so much more than Arnak.
your not wrong about the meta. The goal is to find Arnak, and Arnak is "found" by getting to the top of the research track. All the other methods function more as resource generators for that track with some point perks. Thematically this makes sense as all the locations, artifacts, and resources are clues that point you ever closer to Arnak, but mechanically it can be a bit static. The Expedition Leaders expansion helps a BIT, but another expansion would be required to truely vary the paths to victory (like if you wanted a path to win via defeating guardians the game would need an endgame bonus for most guardians defeated, and/or a mechanic that allowed you to spawn more guardians to defeat yourself, or direct at other players hampering their progress on the research tract)
Already backed EW, very interested in DI. I'll see if I can find it or wait for a French edition. With the upgraded components. Regarding DI characters artwork, it reminds me of Star Wars LCG from FFG. Drawings of actors of the original trilogy. Thanks a lot for this video, I found it very helpfull.
The thing for me, as a "yardstick", is if the game feels complete. Terraforming Mars, while great, always feels a bit sterile and like playing in parallel. You just don't MESS with the other players enough. A little bit, but it feels more like frenemies versus actual corporate sabotage. Lords of Waterdeep is the perfect balance of doing my thing but also fighting with the others for control and so every move matters, every thing you do is a trade-off, and sabotage and blocking the other players feels appropriately weighted. Dune is by far a better game in terms of this, though by no means is it perfect.
@@BoardGameCo A good game has several elements, and the ability to compete vs others is key. Some games devolve into 4 player solitaire and that's a negative to me. Terraforming Mars is one of those games that I wanted to love, but playing it never gives anyone at the table the same wow factor as most other good games. The #1 game like this is Race for the Galaxy. You ability to influence other players is absurdly limited. It never gets played any more as a result.
I miss this video... how come??? I have already the pledge of Endless Winter (and more I read and see I more excited...) still evaluating Arnak and Dune but all of 3 look solid game that can be in my collection... Dune maybe better to read the book to give the first position as a theme
I have to say I don't quite get the current hype for games that combine deck building with worker placement. It seems to me that these particular 3 games are not very deep with both mechanics and aren't that special. I find "Endless Winter" especially weak and underdeveloped, the worker placement part is almost not there and the deck building part is mostly about a few culture cards. "Lost Ruins of Arnak" is ok, mostly because of the enjoyable theme, but I don't find it groundbreaking. "Dune Imperium" is plain uninteresting to me so far, mainly because of the theme and the art style. It's also worth noting that "Endless Winter" won't release before late next year. So, to be fair, compare it to games that release next year.
Have you played these 3? Or this is speculation? Either is fine of course, just trying to guage as most people I know that have played them, have enjoyed them. Not all for sure, but most.
@@BoardGameCo I looked into "Dune Imperium" a bit. For some reason its looks and theme repelled me until lately. And I have to admit it's pretty good for people who like the Dune theme.
Wow, first video I watched in your channel, and you directly nailed it. 1. Arnak and Dune are im my top5 must have list, Endless Winter at least high in my want to play list. 2. The style of comparing games concerning all different categories of design, theme and mechanisms is exactly what you need...and in just 17 min. You might have added some info about the solo modes.
Same as Rahdo. EW>lroa>D except he said he thinks Arnak and Dune would be reversed if he wasnt so averse to conflict in Dune. However you counted all the kickstarter extras for EW and did not count Dune deluxe upgrade coming in a few months. I think its going to grab a point or two on Arnak with that.
I actually left one comparison point off the list; player count range. Endless Winter plays well at 2, 3 and 4. Arnak as well, and Dune Imperium suffers at 2 or fewer. I haven't played any of them solo so I can't comment there.
Joel over at Drive-Thru-Review (one of my most respected sources of information as far as reviews are concerned) recently released a review for Arnak and he specifically mentioned he enjoyed the solo-mode a lot despite not usually being someone to play or like games solo, so there's that!
Dice Tower said Dune was great solo (8.5 out of 10): ruclips.net/video/OUqB2AKAexw/видео.html
Can you elaborate on why you think Dune suffers at 2? Is the dummy player not a decent solution for tightening the board etc?
@@wtfbruhnonono4696 I am curious about this too. Because the reviews I have seen so far, most seem to like the solo mode so I would guess 2 player should be similar since it is basically the same. I have seen some reviewers that did not enjoy it though. Just haven't seen it specifically called out at 2 players though.
I found Dune to play rather well with 2, especially if you get the official app for running the bot. However, you will want to house rule a way to make the card market move faster (there’s now even an official variant coming with the Ix expansion).
As for solo, Arnak is one of the best solo games out there, and Dune is a really good solo as well. They both manage to be enjoyable with bots that are very easy and low maintenance to run
I'm going to end up with all three of these, ain't I?
And I won't apologize for it 😂
me too. Preordered Arnak after playing online at BGG@home which was really great.
Saw the game play of Dune and Endless winter and both looks great as well.
I think I realized that I like that combination of worker placement and deck management.
I love such much all the hard work you put into proposing different video formulas! Really appreciated that! KUDO!
Thank you :)
Pretty cool format to compare games with very similar mechanics in such a head-to-head way. Really helps to decide which game to get when money/space/time is tight. Overlays would be cool where you show what category you are currently talking about.
Heya just wanted to say thank you so much for your channel, me and my dad got into playing board game because of you and we’re having a great time :) our first Kickstarter game will arrive around Father’s Day, and I’m looking forward to it.
Awesome! Very excited. What was your first KS?
BoardGameCo we actually bought two at the same time, Frostpunk & Desolated!
I ordered Dune Imperium and as reviews come out I'm feeling happy with my choice. I'm not particularly invested in the theme, but the lack of interactivity in Arnak is a big strike against it for me. And the double-use cards and bidding combat in DI seemed really interesting.
Both are excellent...I'd keep Arnak over Dune....but only slightly.
Highly anticipating this video. Another excellent and thorough comparison.
Thanks Alex.
Happy to provide :)
So this is more of a Play This and This and This, huh? I'm definitely interested in Arnak and Dune, once my wallet heals a little after the abuse it suffered this last weekend. And excellent job abstaining from extreme hand movement!
:) Technichally yes.....but my Play This, Not That series has frequently had multiple winners...just one "more" winner.
Though not "scientific", I really appreciate the breakdown you gave. It's the only video I've found on these three that is both thorough and concise. After your analysis, I can be confident in my purchase of Dune. With the ease of teach and multi use worker/card implementation strengths going for it, I can say for sure that this game is right for my collection. Thanks Board Game Co.
Very interesting video. Thanks for the depth you put into this. I wish you'd do a quick addendum video addressing the SOLO play and comparison of that. These days that has become an important part of my own game purchase decision and it seems as though for other gamers' too.
Absolutely fair. Right now I just don't dive into solo play as heavily
Dune is my favorite. I enjoy Arnak, but it kinda feels like it’s on rails sometimes. Looking forward to trying endless winter.
Great video, love your structured and easy to follow approach!
I have noticed in various videos about these games over many channels, that the term worker placement is used in a very general way, for any mechanism in which you have some kind of markers (call it worker or not), which you place on a common board to select an action.
I actually think the original worker placement does include always a restriction regarding how many different players may use the same action in a round.
If your placement doesn't reduce the choice of the follwoing players, I use the term "action selection.
In other words, if you could use instead of a common board, an individual board for each player, it's action selection, but if a common board is mandatory because if you use an action, other can't, it's worker placement.
So in Endless Winter, I'd talk about action selection ,with a bonus each round for the first player to use the action.
i'm so happy endless winter is doing a late pledge option i missed the campaign by about 2 hours
Nice!
Alex ... I'm very impressed with the thoughtfulness, timeliness, and your anticipation of what your viewers would like to know. Thought it was going to be a 3-way tie so glad it did not come out that way!
Good video. I would propose another category: "Analysis Paralysis". It seems that a game like EW has so much going on with so much fiddliness that it would lend itself to a lot of AP. Which might make final scoring even closer among the 3 games.
Not a bad suggestion.
I preordered Arnak & Dune for what it would cost me to get Endless. Arnak felt very accessible and could be played by almost anyone, while Dune if I wanted a more interactive experience. Sounds like interpretation of the two games were correct. I will say that the theme in Dune is stronger if you understand the factions as described in the book and how they implemented them into the game.
Are you planning on playing Viscounts, its got a worker placement deck builder feel to it.
With the release of expansions for Dune and Arnak, has your ranking changed any? Hopefully my copy of Endless Winter will arrive by the end of October. All in all great video.
Arnak still leads dune, but the gap is smaller
Thanks for this overview. I was looking forward to it. When comparing components, did you consider the deluxe upgrade for Dune or just the base game? The upgrade does double the cost. I'll probably settle on Arnak in the end. Dune sounds too combative (take that) for my group & Endless Winter may be "too much" for what my group likes (too many options & fiddly). Sounds like Arnak might hit the sweet spot for us. Thanks!
I wasn't factoring in the deluxe upgrade for dune.
Great video! I already was thinking of purchasing Lost Ruins of Arnak, and based on the categories I care about most, it only confirmed my want to purchase it!
Nice :) It's such a fun game :)
You need a million subs! Great video my guy!
Love this comparison video - great job!
Thank you Alex so much for all the content you put out on this channel. It might feel weird as there's so much kickstarter content and I'm someone who doesn't plan on backing kickstarters but I have found your videos informative, thoughtful and entertaining. This video in particular was really helpful and one I anticipated as I was keen one all three but only really needed the one. Arnak seems more suited to my needs out of the three as my game group is more casual and I play a lot with my partner.
Glad I could help! You really can't go wrong with any of them :)
Was looking forward to this one. My excitement was highest for Endless Winter and I have been considering Dune. Thanks Alex, great comparison.
Happy to help :)
Dune is my favorite by far. The locations and factions are so thematic. You need to read the book or watch the movie next year 😁. Also, I'm very excited about the miniatures upgrade pack coming Q1 2021. I've ordered Arnak for my friends' birthday. I'm completely not interested in Endless Winter.
Great way to compare by categories. In my opinion, it's a bit too much of a mashup, so I did a quick grouping of categories that would fit into either "gameplay" or "theme and beauty".
So for gameplay, which is a bit of a more objective way of analyzing the games, if you consider only these 7 categories (Interaction, Integration of Mechanics, Multi-use Cards, Getting enough done, Worker placement options, wp tension and Fiddliness), you get a winner in Dune Imperium with 18 points, followed by Endless Winter with 14 and then Arnak with 10.
In the "theme and beauty" perspective, which is also more subjective, with categories that are non gameplay related (Art, Theme, Playtime, Components, Comp vs price, Ease of Teaching and Modularity+expansions), Arnak and Endless Winter are tied for the win at 17, with Dune Imperium coming in last with only 9.
As you said, for people who have read the Dune books, the theme comes out very strongly, so it could easily rise to 10 or more. One last important point is that for Dune Imperium they have announced a beautification expansion, coming out later in the year, with minis and premium resources. The board will remain kind of bland, but remember that this is a sand planet... not much contrast or beauty to be had there. While less pretty, it also distracts less, it is perfectly functional and allows the players to focus more on playing the game.
In terms of player count, based on the BGG rankings, Arnak is clearly the stronger game with 1 and 2 players, while Dune Imperium shines with 3 and 4. Arnak is still considered to play best with 3, but seems to provide the worst experience with 4 players (probably due to down time between turns)
I'm more excited for the premium resources than the minis this time :)
@@BoardGameCo I was wrong about the premium resources :( the upgrade pack contents are:
4 Alliance Token miniatures
12 Agent miniatures (with base rings)
1 Mentat miniature
48 Troop miniatures
1 First Player coin
Card and component trays
(from shop.direwolfdigital.com/products/dune-imperium-deluxe-upgrade-pack)
Really like the comparison game series and yours rock!
Thanks :)
Hi Alex! Thank you for the video. Have you tried Viscounts of the West Kingdom? I'm curious to see how it could compare to Endless Winter and Arnak. The game has the deck building & semi- worker placement mechanism.
My FLGS is getting arnak for me this week so I’m excited about that. I preordered both dune and endless winter as well. It’s been a very good year for games and I think next year will be better
Yes :) there are higher and lower years but I'm fine with 2020 so far.
Awesome video. Kudos! I liked the categories you used and the rating method. As you mentioned, in the end each game gets a final value and it's difficult to glean what each game's final value means. Good to know that the final numeric value was in line with your subjective evaluation (i.e. top pick of the 3). I'm all for more 3 game comparisons. I found this video very helpful and informative! As always, thanks for sharing!
You owe it to yourself to read Dune. It's easily in my top 10 books and I've read many. I you do, I wonder it that will change your rating of the board game? My guess is that it will.
Fwiw, I respect Dune and I can see why it built such a cult-following, but the writing itself didn't really impress me at all to the point that it somewhat detracted from the enjoyment of the story for me. Maybe it's intentional, but it felt pretty detached and, for lack of a better word, cold to me, which made it hard to relate to the characters. Obviously a very subjective thing to say, but still.
I tried once, a few years back. I'll try giving it another go.
I am a huge Sci-Fi nerd and just recently read both Dune and Dune: Messiah and... kinda hated them both.
I’m a huge fan of the first dune book, but yea, while the world building is phenomenal, I don’t think the writing itself is very compelling.
Thanks for this comparison video, cheers!
It's the first time I watch a video like that. 3 games kind of related, and why I want them all. Really good concept. I think your method works as much as any others. I would just have used the basic points level of 5,3,1 points... But since everybody gets at least 1 point in every categories, it shouldn't affect your overall result.
I fear Arnak might be a little too quick for me, but I'm intrigue about it's mechanic. I had no ideas about Dune and i will look deeper into it. As for Endless Winter, since i read a preview in August, I was attracted to it. After playing twice on TTS, I backed it with everything, except the deluxe components.
Thanks again for another honest, very interesting presentation!
Great content!!
I heard yourself recently saying in a video that Dune had felt down its ranking a little bit after many plays during last year.
I have played it just a few times and it feels great. Has it got anything to do with the Intrigue Cards and its "randomness" and how crucial battles are after you have played the game enough?
Cheers!!
Alex, nice to see one of these again. You mentioned about 6 months ago there was going to be a play this not that video for Street Masters. But then I never saw it. Did that ever come out? Theres a campaign on indigogo for new and all old content. I'd love to see that before going all in. Can you link that or let me know when it dropped, I can't find it.
Love your work, keep it up!
Sadly earlier this year my computer and hard drive crashed. Along with the expense, four videos that I had filmed were gone forever including that one.
Ah Alex I'm sorry to hear, but glad I'm not going insane. I've looked for that video so many times. Reshoot please!!!
Arnak does have an expansion now, it is called expedition leaders ... if that can be called modularity
Thank you for the comparison super helpful. Like many others you pretty much single handedly sold me on endless winter so I am excited for that one next year. Arnak I’m sure I’ll be picking up at my FLGS this month. And then Dune looks interesting for sure but honestly think it will be one I’ll let someone else in my game group go for just not sold on that board and components for the price point
Glad I can help :)
Dune, all day. Gameplay over look all the time. I prefer interaction in my games......and it's......Dune!
Totally agree here! For me, "just" looking very nice doesn't help in situations, where everyone is sitting around the table and is bored because there is no chance to compete against others... Just sitting there and doing your own stuff is not my style...
Nice showdown! Where can I get arnak? Can’t find it yet
Preorder, arriving shortly.
I recently stumbled across your channel and am thrilled with your format! The comparisons are great and help with decision making. Do you do this for older games as well? - E.g. Viticulture, Stone Age and Lords of Waterdeep for beginner worker placement games.
I do older games here and there, sadly not as much just because the demand isn't that high.
What a shocking revelation.. Endess winter is your favourite.
Indeed, real surprise right ;) although joking aside, when I was hyped for endless winter, I hadn't yet played at the other two. so there was every chance that the other two could overtake.
Love Endless Winter :)
I saw in another video that arnak is a 'hand management' game. I found it very interesting to hear that instead of deck building... I really see that. And even more for Dune (as you win no points from buying cards in general). I have not played EndWin (sadly)
I'd definitely consider it deck building but there's definitely hand management too
I thought you’d either choose Endless Winter or Lost Ruins. It was tough to pass on endless winter. I do like deck building, but I’ve discovered that worker placement is just not high up on my list of favorite mechanics. However, the art and theme on these games are lookin sooo good but shelf space and finances are what’s holding me back as well as my lack of excitement for worker placement games. Any chance on review videos for Tidal Blades and Dwellings of Eldervale in the near future? Would love to hear your thoughts on those games!!!
Thank you once again for all that you do! 🙏
Edit: Also, would you play either of the three mentioned in this video over Dwellings and Tidal Blades? (if you have got a chance to play them yet)
Dwellings of el devale I hope to play soon, tidal blades likely won't be soon.
nice idea with the comparison. But what's with Shogun no Katana? What is your opinion if you had to compare that with these three?
It doesn't share the same mechanics that drove this convo :) that being said, while I enjoyed it and I'm happy to add it to my collection, it's much lower in how much I enjoyed it.
You left off one point: Availability. Dune Imperium was scheduled to be available Dec 14 but there are hints it may be delayed a little bit. Lost Ruins of Arnak reached port (U.S.) the week of Nov 11 so it should be available any day now. Endless Winter is scheduled for Dec 2021 and will probably make next winter really feel endless as it runs late due to KS-related "things". That means normal non-reviewer people will get to play the first two games for a whole year before they get a chance to play Endless Winter.
Makes sense. Ideally I'd do this comparison when all three were available... But with the timing, it still made sense.
I missed the boat on Endless Winter. I preordered both Dune and Lost Ruins. Lost Ruins came in yesterday and i just finished my first game of it. Love it! Waiting on Dune for my comparison.
Nice :)
The boat for Endless Winter haven't sailed yet. You should be able to late pledge.
OBJECTION! ... If two games tie for first, the next one comes in **third**, not second. [grumble, grumble]
But, seriously, thanks for this. I'm playing solo, so Dune's win on interaction puts the other two even further ahead for me. Now I need to watch your Arnak video, though.
Lol I know, but my game...my scoring rules :)
And for solo I believe dune is the worst
Getting both Endless Winters and Arnak. I can already foresee Arnak getting more play because of how streamlined and easy it is to play. EW offers much more strategy which I love but I feel like I'll probably end up having to review the rules before every session. Might have even picked up Dune but my entertainment budget can only take so much!
The rules for both are actually great! Arnak takes a slight edge but it is slight.
A year later. Does your ranking stand? Or have your opinions changed?
Endless I haven't played more of yet, but very excited for it. Arnak and Dune both great, but arnak has gone up and dune down.
Really nice comparison video, i can imagine this being one of the most asked for videos this/last month.
The expansion comparison for a game that will release at the end of next year vs games coming out this year, feels a bit weird thou. While i understand the want for expansions for Arnak (heard several reviewers say it needs one) and Dune, by the time EW is in the hands of backers, it’s very possible that they have got one. Especially considering how hyped they are and how well they will probably sell.
Oh I 100% agree, I'm just comparing them in their current state and that was just one of 14 points
I like the Dune theme the most but people are saying it's not that good for 2. What's your opinion?
I've avoided it at 2 players due to the combat being less rewarding :(
Not Bad If You Use The Free App To Act Like A 3rd Person Who Is Only There To Can Block Off Spaces & Take Part In Combat.
I wasn't surprised to see Endless Winter come out on top with as much as you've said you've loved the game. Still in for a $1 with time to make up my mind. ;)
Lol yep :)
I'm so pleased Endless Winter hits so many key criteria and that it's your favourite. I went all in on KS for the first time for that one :) Long wait now.
Played Endless Winter just yesterday. Right now, Arnak is my favorite of the 3, but let me play Endless Winter a couple more times to confirm.
Time for a rematch soon with Dune Imperium and Lost Ruins of Arnak expansions included in the mix? :)
Cards in arnak has pretty nice art. But i couldn't stand the location tiles. They look boring and very samey. However, i prefer the art more in D:I as it is more mature/adult. I don't like when art looks too "childlish". Hence never touching Everdell.
Wow, this was a great idea for a video
nice video for these three beast ... honestly dune made me love deck building which i hated before ... LROA is also doing the same for me ... i wonder how things changed and arnak ended up way higher on ur list of top games pf all time a few monthes ago ... and i think u can make a new video now that dune and arnak both have very very good strong expansions too ... might change the rank completely :))) dune also got delux pack which also is gonna shake the rank i assume :)))
p.s
ale ur the only channel on youtube i watch with normal speed ... :)))
Very good one!
Thanks :)
How about Vindication compare to those ones ?
Would it win against those 3 ?
I defenatly hope Dune Imperium get some French translation someday
Coz i'm gonna get that one so bad !
Yes...it would.
@@BoardGameCo i'm still looking for this Vindication.
Is it good for 2 players or really better at 3 nor 4 players ?
It was interesting hearing your experience with Arnak's play time and getting enough done. With over a dozen plays in, what I've found is that a 2-player game can last 3-4 hours, with the last round being an hour long. With more experience with the game, I've found when you really fine tune your deck (even exiling gold and compasses), when you are super strategic with daisy chaining your research with your exploration, there is SO much you can do in the 4th and 5th round. I will agree, I'm always left feeling I could have done one more thing, but this is true for many games and why I like them. If I were able to get it all done, I don't think there would be much satisfaction (or need) to hone one's strategy. Just my opinion, of course. I CANNOT wait for Endless Winter. I pre-ordered the bundle and based on your very real hype (and something about an evergreen ;), I am super excited!
You have some SERIOUS AP Issues if you take 3-4(!!!) hours for a 2 Player game of Arnak! We did not come even close to that with 4 Players.
@@IamSalva :D I don't consider it an issue at all. I enjoy every minute.
I just played Dune Imperium for the first time yeasterday and I'm now super interested in this category of games. Looks like Dune has a cosmetic expansion coming soon. :)
All three are excellent :)
Hey Alex. Of topic, have you seen The Boys? It’s on KS and are wondering what you think of it.
I have, covering next Monday :)
@@BoardGameCo awesome, thnx chief. I highly appreciate your view on games. Very direct and no hold-backs 😎. Kudos!
Endless winter won't be in retail anytime soon so I will leave that one out of the picture for now... Theme aside (too subjective), I find Arnak way more innovative than Dune, which feels more like a classic worker placement/resource managment game with a pinch of deck building (already have similar games). Arnak on the other hand has variable and incremental worker placement spots, has two types of cards you can buy with different introductions to your deck, has changing ratios of those cards as the game progresses, has mini monsters/challenges to overcome, has a scale of travelling cards to reach certain destinations, and has assistants that can be upgraded. To me it's the fresher game.
Fair enough on all counts :)
I don’t know if you have seen the upgrade pack for Dune Imperium. Would those miniatures bring Dune up a notch on the most scientific metric evah? ;)
Most scientific?
I’m trying to choose which one is right for me now. I’m leaning towards arnak just because I go to my local game shop and play with random people. Endless winter seems difficult to teach one or god forbid two players.
Dune imperium, lost ruins are both in my top 5 of all time, I've never played endles winter but its on my wanted list.
They are great 🙂
I knew Endless Winter was your favorite but I still don't see it. The 4 action spots combined with generic 'labour' ressource does not speak to me. I would love to try it out though but not enough to spend money upfront for it :)
The other two, well I have Arnak pre-ordered and Dune I would be interested in if I was not primarily playing two players only.
I totally hear you. I had the same reservation when I was first being taught the game....and yet it works.
Yeah, after playing it on TTS, I found it really wasn't clicking for me or the people I was playing with. We gave it a second shot, but overall the appeal just wasn't there. I'm content that for me and my group, not spending my money on it was the right choice.
Arnak did interest me more, but after some of the negative points Alex mentioned here that I don't think I quite picked up on as much in his review, so I'm now cautious on a purchase there.
I'm lukewarm on Dune in general, so that one should be a relatively easy pass.
Looks like I might be waiting for a second wave of worker placement / deck-building hybrids to get in on this particular genre.
I've tried Endless Winter a few times and it's too point salad-y for me, but I can see the appeal for others. I'm looking forward to both Lost Ruins and Dune.
Oh nice! That might sound surprising, but I'm actually excited. This is the first time I've seen a comment from someone who played it and didn't like it.
@@BoardGameCo I found the mechanics interesting, and this might just be our inexperience with it, but it felt like the three of us playing could each do our own thing and never intrude on the other players even more so than usual in Euro games.
Didn't even mention the upgrade kit for Dune Imperium sadly. Review is clearly your opinion which I do appreciate.
True. Although sadly even with that upgrade kit I prefer the others in components....that upgrade kit just adds minis which wasn't the problem with the game.
For now as a regular (don’t have access to prototyps) bg player I played dune and have Arnak. I didn’t plan to buy Dune, thought I might play it one or two times. And based on your recommendations I produced (Late plate) Endless Winter (big box all-in). We will se hove it goes.
I appreciate the video, but given that Endless Winter does not technically exist yet and will not for at least a year, I will not consider it. I will grab Dune Imperium as it speaks to my likes and it is at a great price. Endless Winter could end up replacing Dune, but I just cannot compare a KS game to a game that is out on the market. Still, I am excited to get my hands on endless winter next year. Did you ever try Tyrants of the Underdark? Deck building and area control, one of my favorites!
Reasonable enough. And never tried Tyrants sadly :(
Tyrants of Underdark is amazing!
@@BoardGameCo I recommend snagging a copy to try. It just really works well and the deck building is solid!
@@JJ_TheGreat i have it backed as well, if it ever delivers
I haven't played Endless Winter yet, I should try it on TTS or Tabletopia if it's available, but for Dune and Arnak, I agree with all your points. I'm pretty sure that when Endless Winter gets delivered I'm going to end up keeping all three too. :)
For some reason, i started to think that maybe i should have bought arnak instead of backing endless winter.
Great video, thank you.
You can get both :)
I kind of promised my wife, that i wouldn't buy anymore board games. And im running out of spaces where to hide them :o
2 years later, I have finally played all 3 of these titles! From my perspective, these 3 games cannot be compared based on their mechanics alone, as each has its own unique position on the board game weightage scale. That being said, they all do a fine job in each of their weight classes!
Here is my weight ranking for these 3 games:
1. Arnak (Lightest)
2. Dune (Medium)
3. Winter (Heavier)
Also, curious to know what your opinion is on these 3 titles now that 2 years have passed! 😁
I'll be doing an updated comparison this year :)
DUNE AND Arnak with forthcoming expansions will disintegrate endless winter. Plus their solo mode is the best.
Will have to see :)
I'm betting Alex is giving everything to endless winter.
Oh just wait until tomorrow :) I am indeed giving something to Endless Winter
As a all in backer of endless backer, an owner of arnak and a buyer-in-waiting of dune, I'm quite happy :p
Also arnak expansion coming this year, I'm even happier!
Oh nice! I'm excited for that!
We need more of these type of games. Deckbuilding and WP is great! Awesome review as always. #boardgamecoOG
I think theme is so dependent on the personal preference... I'd go with Arnak but totally get why someone would go with either
Would love an update to this video now that Dune has expansions (especially Ix).
thanks alex, i have preordered dune and did the $5 pledge on endless winter but will likely go close to all in. It looks like lost ruins of arnak is sold out almost everywhere so i’ll wait on that and maybe pass if I enjoy the first teo
If price was a constraint, which would you prefer
Endless (but not currently available) and then I'd pick Arnak vs Dune based on which word appeals to you more....components and arts, or more conflict and interplay.
The problem with this comparison is timing. I’ve paid for Endless Winter up front. Arnak is coming out soon and Dune sooner. Such the wrong order.
Lucky, I’m just a collector!
And where the heck are the mini’s of the Sandworm? The game that has those...
Oh man, a mini for snadworms would be great :)
I think Kemet 2021 has a Sandworm miniature in an upgrade pack.
Actually everything makes sense thematically in Lost ruins of Arnak. There are no loose ends there. Dune has an abstracted track system that is giving you favor withing all the factions. Basicly that track could have been anything. Also just having 2 workers is not really fair to see it as a negative in my opinion. How everything else combines with that and that discovering new location always gives you bonuses, even if you don't defeat the guardian there gives you suddenly choices. And are multi use cards that important? depends on the mechanism. If a mechanism doesn't need it then it is not important and then it is not a fair comparison. And Arnak has the tension built in, can not disagree more on that little note. Also it is not really a fair comparison to compare a deluxe version of a game with the rest.
I feel some of the "catagories" are are so narrow that it feels more of a personal comparison then a comparison that is made for me to decide ultimately. The rest of the review gave me more information on differences and similarities that would be more impactful on my buying decision. That being said i liked the rest of the review very much. I only have Lost Ruins of Arnak and curious to get the other 2. In which order? well if i could buy both right now then i don't know. As it stand Dune will be my next purchase because it is coming sooner.
And in the end it doesn't matter because Arnak wins anyway because of your wife hahahahaha. So the review is redundant. Just joking.
Oh for sure, I just picked a whole bunch of categories as to why one would win over the other for me. But yes inherently all such things are subjective.
Both DI and LRoA are on their way to me. I'm hoping we enjoy DI well enough at 2P. I'm eyeing EW as a potential late backer but not convinced. Seems too fiddly and certainly expensive.
I would agree that I would have thought EW is too fiddly until I played it.
@@BoardGameCo ugh, you're making this tougher! Lol
I know this is a relatively old video, but I discovered a new game and it reminded me of this video.
Adventure Realms is also a worker placement, deck builder game, available print-on-demand right now. The 32-bit pixel aesthetics give me all kinds of nostalgia. I know print-on-demand games aren't really covered by this channel. They are as anti-value as they get. Instead of crowd funding and mass producing a product, print-on-demand games are literally produced individually, driving up the price. (Maybe a possible discussion topic?) These games are rarely covered by the RUclips crowd. They are usually ignored. And it's a shame, because it has really brought many great to my attention. If anything, I think the creators deserve more attention.
--Anyway. If you have room for another worker placement, deck builder, I would be interested to hear your thoughts on this one.
Dune not having expansions, this aged well ;p.
Endless Winter was agonizingly boring. I was shocked how much I didn't care about anything in this game because there was so much going on with nothing actually happening.
It is a little bit sad that Dune: Imperium doesn't do much about theme. Its IP is so vast and rich and there is a lot of potential to implement it in the game, but alas. Honestly, I see the same mechanics working without a lot of issues for other IPs that feature rival factions, like for instance, A Song of Ice and Fire (or Game of Thrones, for those who haven't read the books).
The other Dune board game, republished by Gale Force Nine in 2019, implements the IP's theme much better as the player factions are unique and reflect their literary origin very well. Its main downside is that it suffers on player count flexibility and it really shines only at a higher player count, like at least 4-5, and is best at 6.
Ya I totally hear you. For myself as someone who doesn't care about Dune it's not an issue but for those who want the theme.
Dune is more thematic than Arnak for sure (people over at BGG tend to agree), it totally gives you the tension and conflict true to the book. Arnak just paints a resource management game with a light vineer of "its an adventure" and pretty art, any story/theme beyond that you have to make up as you go (which is fine). Dune though, very thematic, scarcity of water, appeasing the factions, and many other mechanics. (I own both of those by the way)
Great video, certainly when I noticed all three of them and considered, like you, that they were playing in the same league;-) A friend of mine backed Endless Winter so I hesitated between Ruins and Dune. But Dune = theme (big Dune fan! Been waiting for this new movie for ages) + interaction = the winner for me ;-)
Love this video.
We had great hopes in Arnak. But we sold it after a few plays. In our first games it gave us this adventure spirit. What do I want to achieve this game? Do I want to discover lost places? Fight Monsters? Enter the temple or build my deck with powerful items and artifacts? But this is only the feeling the game is giving you. Not the reality.
It is a race on the temple track to change your ressources in the most effective way to achieve the most steps. You simply can't win the game if you don't compete in this race. We tried different tactics but every time the player committing most to the temple track won the game. Even if he was only 4-5 steps ahead of you the point difference was so high you couldn't keep up, even with 4 monsters more killed or 8 cards more in your deck. It just isn't possible.
And once we realised this fact the game lost all of it's appeal. It didn't feel like "Hey, let's explore this board". It felt like "How can I get my two scrolls into one diamond to get this last step before player b".
And Endless Winter gives us this feeling. I want to invest in Megaliths or animal hunting or controlling the map regions and even racing the idol track if I want to.
But none of this options seems more powerfull than the other. Most games come in at a very tight score at the end which is mindblowing given the sheer amount of mechanics in the game. We like Endless Winter so much more than Arnak.
your not wrong about the meta. The goal is to find Arnak, and Arnak is "found" by getting to the top of the research track. All the other methods function more as resource generators for that track with some point perks. Thematically this makes sense as all the locations, artifacts, and resources are clues that point you ever closer to Arnak, but mechanically it can be a bit static.
The Expedition Leaders expansion helps a BIT, but another expansion would be required to truely vary the paths to victory (like if you wanted a path to win via defeating guardians the game would need an endgame bonus for most guardians defeated, and/or a mechanic that allowed you to spawn more guardians to defeat yourself, or direct at other players hampering their progress on the research tract)
Already backed EW, very interested in DI. I'll see if I can find it or wait for a French edition. With the upgraded components.
Regarding DI characters artwork, it reminds me of Star Wars LCG from FFG. Drawings of actors of the original trilogy.
Thanks a lot for this video, I found it very helpfull.
An update of your opinion please!
The thing for me, as a "yardstick", is if the game feels complete.
Terraforming Mars, while great, always feels a bit sterile and like playing in parallel. You just don't MESS with the other players enough. A little bit, but it feels more like frenemies versus actual corporate sabotage.
Lords of Waterdeep is the perfect balance of doing my thing but also fighting with the others for control and so every move matters, every thing you do is a trade-off, and sabotage and blocking the other players feels appropriately weighted.
Dune is by far a better game in terms of this, though by no means is it perfect.
Sure...but what makes a game feel complete for you? Interaction?
@@BoardGameCo A good game has several elements, and the ability to compete vs others is key. Some games devolve into 4 player solitaire and that's a negative to me. Terraforming Mars is one of those games that I wanted to love, but playing it never gives anyone at the table the same wow factor as most other good games.
The #1 game like this is Race for the Galaxy. You ability to influence other players is absurdly limited. It never gets played any more as a result.
I miss this video... how come??? I have already the pledge of Endless Winter (and more I read and see I more excited...) still evaluating Arnak and Dune but all of 3 look solid game that can be in my collection...
Dune maybe better to read the book to give the first position as a theme
I have to say I don't quite get the current hype for games that combine deck building with worker placement. It seems to me that these particular 3 games are not very deep with both mechanics and aren't that special.
I find "Endless Winter" especially weak and underdeveloped, the worker placement part is almost not there and the deck building part is mostly about a few culture cards.
"Lost Ruins of Arnak" is ok, mostly because of the enjoyable theme, but I don't find it groundbreaking.
"Dune Imperium" is plain uninteresting to me so far, mainly because of the theme and the art style.
It's also worth noting that "Endless Winter" won't release before late next year. So, to be fair, compare it to games that release next year.
Have you played these 3? Or this is speculation? Either is fine of course, just trying to guage as most people I know that have played them, have enjoyed them. Not all for sure, but most.
@@BoardGameCo I looked into "Dune Imperium" a bit. For some reason its looks and theme repelled me until lately. And I have to admit it's pretty good for people who like the Dune theme.
Wow, first video I watched in your channel, and you directly nailed it.
1. Arnak and Dune are im my top5 must have list, Endless Winter at least high in my want to play list.
2. The style of comparing games concerning all different categories of design, theme and mechanisms is exactly what you need...and in just 17 min.
You might have added some info about the solo modes.
Thanks! And yes, I should have talked about the solo modes but sadly didn't play any of them solo which is why I forgot to bring them up.
Same as Rahdo. EW>lroa>D except he said he thinks Arnak and Dune would be reversed if he wasnt so averse to conflict in Dune.
However you counted all the kickstarter extras for EW and did not count Dune deluxe upgrade coming in a few months. I think its going to grab a point or two on Arnak with that.
Oh nice! Where did Rahdo talk about it? And sadly I prefer Arnak base to dune with that deluxe kit :(
Tout à fait du même avis. J'adore les trois jeux.