What Role Should Tradition Play in the Church? | Episode 151
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 17 мар 2024
- What role should tradition play in interpreting Scripture and in guiding Christian beliefs and practices? Some argue that church history and tradition are on equal footing with the Bible, while others advocate for eliminating "manmade" traditions altogether. Dr. David K. Bernard addresses this debate with a look at what Scripture says about tradition and the church.
If you enjoyed this video, subscribe to this channel so you'll never miss another episode. You can listen to the audio version of this podcast on Apple, Spotify, Google Podcasts, and other podcast platforms.
Tradition AND 'culture' must agree with the WHOLE word of God (Romans 12:1,2)
What a well rounded discussion. Excellent exposition Bishop.
Amen!! Thank you very much Brother Bernard for your very understandable response. May God bless you! 🙏🏻🙏🏻
Great teaching!!❤
I love this video David keep the good work up man
Great discussion
1 John 2:27
“But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.”
Thank you, Superintendent David K Bernard, for the teaching of tradition according to the Bible.
Ephesians 4:14
“That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;”
Amén
Well Said ! In Jesus name!
So, if I am understanding this correctly, traditions are only valid if they can be linked back to scripture (I mean legitimately linked backed)? Anything else or any other tradition that does not fall under his guideline is simply a man-made tradition that is merely personal preferences and thus not mandatory?
Which we as apostolics also have many traditions that we have too elevated to heaven or hell issues
How many books of the Bible are there? Could you give me a verse for your canon?
Amen
Hello,
I’ve been following Dr. Bernard’s teachings- preachings- podcast for a few years now.
For the YT podcast I know listeners can submit questions, if possible for a future video, would it be possible for Dr. Bernard to further explain the understanding of the following verses:
1 Corinthians 15:24-28
Helping to clarify why Apostle Paul stated it this way, I believe in One God (Jesus Christ)
Thank you.
Respectfully,
Jacob
Jacob, thank you for listening. Check out Episode 116 "Will the Sonship of Jesus End?" for a discussion of 1 Corinthians 15:24-28 (ruclips.net/video/5JDpxnXLJtQ/видео.htmlsi=aw5SwRcIIv-h8B9w) - Podcast Production Team
@@DavidKBernardUPCI thank you so much, I will definitely give it a listen.
Why do some groups forbid wedding rings?
I don't know every group belief, but I've heard individual couples, who some wanted rings and some didn't. I think it's very personal individually
This is usually a stance against jewelry in general, which is often looked down upon was gaudy showings of wealth. A lot of churches will allow wedding rings so long as they're not overly fancy.
You can't go wrong by relying on scripture.
Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling..it's God who works it all out for you for HIS good pleasure. Best solution, go to God in prayer..Jesus do you want us to do this/that? Does this...glorify You God!
@@jasonporter5912 I love the use of the word “allow” as if the church had the right to dictate what kind of wedding rings and bands a couple decides to purchase. Now, I understand that you may not be like this or think this way, so my comment in more in a general sense, but I have a hard time hearing preachers talk about modesty in wedding bands when they themselves sometimes have very expensive custom made suits and sometimes their wives have expensive designer brands. Now, do I personally have an issue with custom made suits or designer bags? No, I don’t. But then again, I’m not one to get on my soapbox about what kind of ring someone wears. I honestly couldn’t care less how showy or how simple your ring may be.
I cannot speak for all churches that do not use wedding rings, but our hispanic church teaches that it has pagan oregins and scince we are trying to break catholic traditions in our people and countries we discourage amongst our people and no ministry can wear them.
Do we do the same thing. Do we make a mountain out of molehill.
I think it is in error here to say that Jesus was speaking against ALL tradition in his rebuke. He was speaking against pious practices that were none effect. It’s a condition of one’s heart - you say scripture, and your heart is not congruent with it - and your lips flabber jabber… but you’re not drawing near in faith and love. Scriptures were compiled and vetted in those Councils… so, we can accept the Scriptures, but reject the Councils - and one becomes just like those folks who say Trinity - but reject Baptism… as Dr Bernard stated.
Scriptures are ‘Holy Tradition’ in the Orthodox fronema (mindset) - and are certainly part of the Orthodox believer’s spiritual formation and daily life. But - we cannot ignore that the word Tradition - is written with a capital T. And we also see in Scripture - little t - tradition. And of course we have vain traditions mentioned too in Scripture.
Tradition is - Teachings - and not all Teachings - are recorded in Scripture. For example, after the resurrection- Christ finalized his Teachings to the Apostles - and we really don’t get a sense of what those Teachings are from the Gospels…. And considering that the Gospels were written 40 to 60 years post Ascension - and the epistles too - there was an Oral Tradition that was preserved and defended and folks died while living out their Orthodox faith with steadfastness of heart.
Dr Bernard aptly makes a distinction between the innovator Roman Church - and Eastern Orthodox - who has not really changed all too much in the 2000 years.
As for the Nicene Creed - he mentioned - it is the Symbol of Faith - and is the go-to to understand the principle teachings of Christ - and of baptisms… and is part of one’s daily prayer life. It succinctly states precisely who Jesus was, and is, and is to come.
When we say, Mary - the Mother of God - we are making a dogmatic statement in defense of Who the Incarnate Christ was - and is - and is to come… with us IS God - and we behold his Glory.
Pious customs that Oneness Pentecostals have preached from their pulpits as universally ‘true’ (but differing from local assembly to local assembly - district to district - are precisely what Christ God called out the Jews as none effect… it is confusing and harmful and in a never ending flux… innovations. They are pious practices, perhaps, but they are not a ‘heaven and hell issue’. And if one thinks about this - and questions them - they stand in rebellion to the pastor.
This is precisely why the Tradition of Scripture, and other Holy Traditions, and the Church Fathers - all work together to help form the Christian to be rooted and established in love.
My personal favorite back in the day was, ‘God told me not to wear cologne and deodorant’ when I walked with the Oneness Camp. And I stood there thinking, hmmmm - John 3 16 says just that…. Actually, I thought of the entombed Lazareth… and folks were saying in Scripture… ‘behold, he stinketh’….
Well no, Jesus was speaking against traditions that go against the word of God. Nothing wrong with traditions as long as you can back it up with scripture.
Things like praying to Mary, the bodily assumption of Mary, the Trinity, and infant baptism really can’t be back up with Scripture if you go by the Bible as the sole authority.
It’s best to be as scriptural as possible.
Also the Roman Catholic Church and Eastern Orthodox have changed that’s why they are two different groups and not one.
@@samshields1116 - Eastern Orthodox differ on Mary regarding her repose from the Roman Church. The Eastern Orthodox Church has a whole fast period leading up to when we commemorate her Dormition… whereas Rome says she did not die but was Translated. As for infant baptism - Scripture tells us the entire household was baptized…. Not all, less the babies. This whole believers baptism thing is an innovation to the Faith - from the 1600 Anabaptist movements Like Judaism - Orthodox Children are fully part of the new covenant - and participate in the Mysteries of the Church - from their baptism forward… which is different than in Rome where they have to be ‘confirmed’ later. Babies grow in wisdom and in the nurture of the Church - in full Communion. Many Roman Catholics are surprised that Orthodox babies commune from the chalice as do all Orthodox Christians. One Lord. One Faith. One Baptism. One Chalice. One Church.
Most Oneness Pentecostals misrepresent the Dogmas of the Church - and seem especially ignorant when they speak of the Holy Trinity… When an Orthodox states the Holy Trinity in congruence with the Creed - we are talking of the totality of God - Father, Son, and Holy Spirit - One in Essence AND Undivided. When all y’all begin trying to split up the godhead and say that is the ‘Trinity’…. That is not what the Church teaches - no has the Church ever taught that nonsense. And here of late, it seems to me, that Oneness Pentecostals are morphing and blending their oneness-ness- with Nestorianism.
Orthodox Christians do not pray to Mary… alone. We pray to all the Saints… in special prayers called Akathists. But, to wit that ChristGod was in Mary’s womb…. The miracle of the Incarnation… When we say things in our prayers - ‘Mary save us’ - for example - it’s different than one thinks in Heterodoxy… we’re saying have pity / compassion on us. There is One Church - and the Church exists in the temporal - and is a bridge into the eternal… ‘Church Triumphant’… ‘Church Militant’… and All Angelic hosts worship Jesus - continuously. So. The Christian believer is surrounded by a great cloud of witnesses - at all times.
Trust you’re well. Lovingly - Cuthbert.
@@realmccoy124 well with regards to baptizing infants, do babies know the gospel? Do they feel guilty of their sins? Baptism is for the remission of sins (Acts 2:38 is very clear in that)
And if you’re saying God has 3 distinct centers of “consciousness” then that would be tritheism. Just as you said Oneness Pentecostal s misrepresent Trinitarians you also misrepresent us for being Nestorian in view, which Nestorians were Trinitarian btw.
I’ve studied the Godhead for the past 4 years, I have corrected most Trinitarians in their beliefs too, which there isn’t a true model of the Trinity, hence “Great is the mystery of the Trinity” and even some Trinitarians having Oneness views.
I just say stay close to scripture so that you don’t have people praying to Mary or having non-biblical revelations about her that aren’t even important to Christian beliefs at all.
@@samshields1116 - hi Sam - so, we are not saved from guilt and shame… we are being saved from sin and death. The whole notion of Guilt and Shame in one’s theology is Roman - and this position has flavored the Protestant Stew which the UPCI has picked and chose their unique traditions they have created.
The heresy of Nestorianism is that they have an improper understanding of who the Incarnate Christ. Basically, He was a good man, infused with God’s spirit…
The heresy of Arianism is that Christ is a created being - like the angels and human.
Orthodoxy teaches ‘Salvation is Created When the Son of God becomes the Son of the Virgin.’ And that when we see ChristGod in the miracle of the Incarnation… we do not ascribe the Nestorian notion … of an infused divinity.. we do not attest the Arian teaching that we a created being who is like an angel. We say of Christ that He is Fully God and Fully Man… or as stated in the Creed - begotten, not made - of one Essence with the Father.
In every Divine Liturgy, the Faith is clearly communicated… we sing - Father Son and Holy Spirit - One in Essence AND Undivided.
The Roman Church in her heretical innovations to the Faith is a conundrum that Orthodoxy must never follow after. So, many of your organization’s teachings align perfectly with Rome. But, you will most likely respond… but this is different and that is different… and that you are unlike them. But, there are similarities.
Orthodoxy is apart from the Roman Church. For example, the Roman Church with their Original Sin construct… innovated the Faith with their unique tradition of the ‘Immaculate Conception’… where Mary is ‘other’…
This is hugely problematic - if Christ did not assume His humanity from Mary… because Mary is ‘other’… then, no one can be redeemed. This notion of Mary being unlike the rest of humanity… was never part of the wisdom of the Church through the Ages (and unto the Ages).
Mary is the Mother of our God - is a dogmatic statement concerning who is Jesus Christ. We call her the Theotokos- Bearer of God. Nestorian wanted to call her ‘Christotokos’ - because of his deviation from the True Faith. Jesus Christ is God the only begotten (not made) of God the Father.
Trust you are well. Lovingly, Cuthbert.
@@samshields1116 - firstly, thank you for your reply. Firstly, in the Orthodox fronema as I understand it, baptism is certainly part of one’s salvation experience, however, it is not ‘salvation’. With this statement I am not refuting or ignoring Mark 16 16 - even though it is said that that chapter did not originally have all that we have in our scriptures today…. Just like Luke Acts was initially shorter - and was lengthened later on.
When we look in Scriptures - and for the sake of brevity - just focusing on Acts 10 - we see the entire household, whether male, female, old, young, bond or free, related or aligned - the entire Oikos - were baptized. We do not have any exclusions recorded in Scripture. Entire households, less the babies - is not found in scripture. Also, ‘until the age of accountability’ exclusion is not found in Scripture… Historically, we can see baptism was part of the Christian experience - and infant baptism was practice since the beginning - and it wasn’t until the Reformation that we see the disagreement rise up in those who were revolting from Rome… and that was about 500 years after Rome innovated and left her Orthodoxy behind. I am referencing the Great Schism in the early 11th century.
The Church has always viewed her baptismal pools as her womb. When an infant is baptized, or even when one enters the Orthodox Church as adult - they partake in one of the mysteries. It enables or quickens them where they can participate in all aspects of faith in Christ as they presently understand things, and parish community as well. In Orthodoxy, baptized infants receive holy communion - which generally freaks out modern day Roman Catholics.
Salvation is not individualized - it is experienced in Community. God works in the life of every human person, baptized or not, in an effort that no man perishes, but that all may come to repentance.
The Christian life is a journey - from revelation to revelation. We see this in the Epistles. You are right, the infant cannot understand the Gospel… so, in this moment - it is the faith of the child’s parents… AND his godparents… AND their parish community… that we collectively believe that Christ God can AND will save this child. As the child grows in wisdom and stature, they grow up having not known a time apart from Christ… and the parish community looks out and nurtures their faith until they can fully actualize and thrive and possess their Faith. Sure, they may turn away from the faith, and create their own enmity between themselves and God’s plan for their lives. It is no different for adults.
No one is baptized in the Orthodox Church without a ‘sponsor’. And this understanding is different than what seems to be generally accepted as godparents in the West. I have sponsor who is part of my journey. I am a sponsor to adults and children - and it is my responsibility to pray for them, encourage them in the faith, reinforce the teachings of the faith and support the parent’s authority. And to be a model of Christian piety and to live out my faith in a way that maintains a solid witness of the teachings and traditions of the Church.
No one who is not Orthodox, may receive any of the Holy Mysteries. And even if they are Orthodox, if they haven’t maintained their walk in accordance to the teachings and traditions of the Church - they cannot receive the Blood and Body of Christ - the Holy Eucharist. You can be an inquirer. Become a catechuem, but until you are baptized and become newly illumined, you are limited in what you can do in the parish life.
No where does the Doctrine of the Trinity - speaks of three separate Gods… and if there wasn’t a perfect unity of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit - we would be guilty of tritheism as you suggest. Jesus Christ is my King and my God. Father Son Holy Spirit - One in Essence, AND Undivided.
My wife is not Orthodox, and I met her in a Oneness Church years ago - and when we sit down to talk about what we hear folks say ‘Oneness’ is today, verses what we learned back in the day nearly 40 years ago…. Is morphing into something not like what we knew and were taught - there are certainly elements of Nestorianism popping up in Oneness Camp thought and is being expressed in discussion forums such as this.
Finally, Nestorianism isn’t Trinitarian… no more than Sabellianism is… nor more than Arianism is…. all three were rejected because of their offshoot teachings from the Church. Sure, all three camps have similarities to the Original… but their doctrinal differences from the Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church teaching and traditions - along with the non-Chalcedon folk - have resulted where there is no agreement.
Unlike many in the UPCI camp, who like to sit in the judgment seat of Christ, and tell folks they’re going to Hell…. I recognize that God will have mercy on whom he will have mercy.. and that the Holy Spirit moves outside of my understanding and my opinions. What does conversion look like? I do not know… I only know that I must do my utmost while trusting in the perfectness of Christ God, who has called me out of darkness to follow after Him… Purification. Illumination. Unification.
If you like the Oneness idea then PLEASE look at the model called INFINITE oneness model. Wow wow wow
What is that? New age?
No this is a biblical model
NO We had Revival with the old timey way,, its the new way that is not drawing the sinners into Gods house!!
Skinny suits and mom-pants, musical performances, barroom lighting, Vegas styled staging, $uburbia
The worst Tradition of all is that Speaking in Tongues was for back then and not now.
Jesus Christ please let the Catholic watch this
Good point.
Good point indeed hopefully God let that happen
2 Thessalonians 2:15 (KJV)
Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the TRADITIONS which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
The word Trinity is not found in the Nicene Creed, the only number related to God is ONE God in the creed. The fact you hold to a 27 Book NT Canon is from the tradition of the Church.
Interesting. I fact checked your assertion that the word Trinity isn’t in the Nicene Creed… and you’re absolutely right. Haha. Father. Son. And Holy Spirit. One in Essence AND undivided.
@@realmccoy124 One Essence and Undivided!! Sounds like 1 God !!! As AD Urshan said the,”3 in 1 God”!
@@mloy1915 - hi and thanks for your response. There are certainly similarities - but what Dr Bernard says of the Godhead, is not congruent with Holy Orthodoxy. And how Dr Bernard, and most in the Oneness camp say of the Trinity - is entirely incorrect of Classical Trinitarianism. Most times they are describing other heretical teachings that are found in other offshoots from the True Faith that were denounced long ago. There are many people in the Fragmented West who say they are ‘trinitarian’ - but hold an incorrect understanding of the dogma - and who are not in Communion… whose teachings are NOT in agreement with the Church, her teachings and Traditions. The Orthodox Church views these random and innovative teachings as heterodoxy, apart from Holy Wisdom that came down and was established - one and for all - and remains steadfastly preserved. We do not ascribe to ecumenism, with all of the various opinions found in the 40K plus denominations who all claim they are of Christ. However, we do not entertain the practice of trying to determine the ‘who is and who is not saved’… for God wills not for anyone to perish, but that all mankind to come to repentance. I trust you are well. Lovingly, Cuthbert.
@@realmccoy124 Greetings and surprised of your affiliation, was not expecting. I am not convinced the Churches(emphasized plural) of the East are faithful to Biblical Orthodoxy.
You mentioned “ClassicalTrinitarianism”, I do not think the Essence- Energies distinction found in EO represents such. To use words like “Fragmented West”, “40k Plus Denominations”, trying to infer the East is united may persuade the uninitiated but thru my experience EO has no such unity as you insinuate. Blessings this Great Lent and Pascha!
@@mloy1915 - what does Biblical Orthodoxy look like? Because, even the Scriptures say of themselves essentially they are a redacted version - and could never contain everything that Christ did.
As I understand things, energies are what the West calls attributes… and out of God’s Essence - all humans who are created in His image - experience His divine energies - whether they are cognizant of it or not of these interactions.
There are certainly various jurisdictions in the Eastern Orthodox… and each jurisdiction may have some minor differences - but there is certainly a unity. Yes, Moscow and Constantinople are having a spat right now - but I can commune in any parish - in any jurisdiction - as long as I have prepared myself properly … and they are Canonical as laity. Only the priesthood between the Russian and Greek jurisdictions are forbidden to vest and concelebrate.
There are non canonical churches in the East, that are non Chalcedonian Christians - like Coptic, Assyrian, Indian,… and then there are those churches who are in communion with Rome, that celebrate the same Divine Liturgy… when I speak of Holy Orthodoxy - I am only speaking of Canonical Eastern Orthodox.
As for those Orthodox who place their ethnic overlays over Orthodoxy are in error. I am in the Russian tradition - and I love the solemnity and seriousness the Russian tradition offers the believer to grow in Christ. But, I equally love the Antiochian and Greek traditions… I love the traditions Romanians and Serbians too. Whether in old Church Slavonic, Greek, Arabic, Romanian, Serbian - I am totally down with that.
As the Lord is One - there is only One Church - but, as the Church Fathers spoke - where the Holy Spirit - the LORD and Giver of Life moves and calls and illumines - is beyond my understanding… and like the thief on the Cross - my prayer should be, ‘Remember me in your Kingdom’… and that all may come to repentance.
Thank you - blessed Fast as we all journey towards Pascha - the feasts of all feasts! I trust you’re encouraged as your soul prospers - Cuthbert!
Jesus is not Baptist, Anabaptist, Seventh-day Adventists, LDS, Catholic, Presbyterian, Pentecostal, Apostolic, Denominational, Non-Denominational, Mormon, Muslim, Buddha, Hindu, or any other Man-Made Religion..
Jesus is the “WAY” - The Only “WAY” !
That point about the Nicean Creed = 🤌🏽