🤘🤔Nikon D800E, D810 and D850 Usable Dynamic Range Test and Budget Buying Advice👌🤘
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 5 сен 2024
- My Patreon Members Site: / andyastbury
My Pro Grade Image Sharpening Training: bit.ly/2EaXyU2
Like it or not this video compares the real usable dynamic range of Nikons three most used cameras for landscape photography.
Everyone bangs on endlessly about dynamic range when in fact most of them have no clue what they're talking about.
If you want to see the truth about dynamic range improvements since 2012 then the results of this video may well come as a shock!
#DynamicRange #nikon_d850 #LandscapePhotography
Thanks! After much research, I bought second hand D800E about a month ago since I determined it gave me the most value for money of all the used options on the market. Videos like this simply validate the decision I already made, but are comforting nonetheless :)
I have both the d800e and d850. Both are great for different applications. Great comparison.
This made me smile. Photography on a budget just got more reassuring!
Thank you!
Great content Andy! I also have the D800e and as I get older(65) I do find the lack of focus peaking and floppy out screen sometimes difficult but I refused to pay Nikon for the D850 for the reasons you pointed out. So for half the cost of the upgrade to the D850 I compromised and bought a Fuji X-T2 and a couple of lenses and now use both systems side by side so I get the best of both when required. The difference in IQ between both systems is negligible to my old eyes ( the FF enthusiasts will love me) but for the stuff I do and sell customers don't know the difference. Another compromise because of the weight factor was replacing my old 2.8 lenses for the lighter f4 plastic ones but would never get rid of my D800e.
Cheers Jim 👍👍
I've followed your channel only for a relatively short while, but in that time I've learned to expect no-nonsense, experience based, sensible advise every time. With a touch of most welcome, appropriate and relatable curmudgeonliness as a bonus. So many people are caught up in a vicious cycle of the Gear Acquisition Syndrome, falling prey to the siren songs of camera manufacturers and loud RUclipsrs with little to say or offer but opinions and parroting other RUclipsrs and camera manufacturers' marketing divisions, disguising it all in over-exuberant, distracting video production and annoying... noise.
They should watch this, and basically all your videos, for information that could actually be useful for them.
Thanks again, Andy!
Awesome Mika, that's seriously much appreciated !
Excellent comparison and useful tips. Thanks Andy for sharing your valuable experience.
Glad it was helpful!
it is always a pleasure to hear and to learn from who knows. Thanks a lot for sharing your knowledge!
Watching this in 2024, I have 2 bodies: D800E and D750, both bought brand new when I used to do more photography, nowadays I only do photos for joy and personal pleasure, mostly landscape and sometimes I think of selling these 2 bodies and buying a second-hand D850 with that money, but since I have like 8 really good Nikon lenses when I go out to shoot I like to carry both cameras to have different lenses ready on both to speed up and have more different shoots, it's a heavy bag with all that stuff but sometimes I think if it'd be better to sell all these before the tech advances more and these become obsolete, but other times I think that there's no point on doing that because I won't get significantly better image quality with a D850, I don't feel the need to switch to mirrorless because I don't think it'll give me more image quality and I don't want to buy a lens adapter or more lenses either, What do you think about it?
Hard one Alex, but straight away I will tell you one thing - mirrorless will NOT give you better image QUALITY! I have a Z9, and the image quality is certainly no better than the D850.
What the Z9 does bring to the party is SPEED and a HUGE increase in AF performance and accuracy. I'm pulling off shot sequences with ease, that would have been impossible with any dslr.
AND, I'm doing that with my F-mounts lenses.
I would never buy a Z lens, as I find their bokeh questionable - even the £15,000 400 f2.8 TC has problems in that department that were never there in f-mount 400 f2.8.
But I'm keeping my D850 for landscapes because it allows me to shoot uncompressed raw, which the Z9 does not allow me to do. Plus, all my macro and landscape work is done in manual focus, so the Z9 brings bugger-all to the table in those departments.
And I'm keeping my D500 because it's just such a bloody good camera!
My D800E's are now on my office shelf, enjoying retirement, though if funds allow, I may have one converted to infra-red.
The Z9 does have native shutterspeeds of 1/32000th to 900 seconds, so my astro photography could benefit from a portion of that, as could my ballistics imaging - if I ever did any!!!!
So make of all that what you will Alex!
@@AndyAstbury Thanks, I decided for the moment to keep my D800E and D750 instead of selling them to buy one D850, image quality is basically the same and I prefer to have 2 bodies, also, I don't plan to switch to mirrorless or buy Z lenses, I'll keep my 8 Nikon F-mount lenses, that's why I prefer to have 2 bodies so I can have 2 focal lengths always ready, thanks for your videos!
Only disagree on one point there Alex - the D800E and D850 are nowhere near the same image quality. The D850 has better dynamic range at base ISO 64 than the D800E at 100 ISO, perhaps due to the firmware updates since I made this video. And it has much better high ISO performance as well. It's autofocus is vastly superior in every way too - much faster and more accurate. Just FYI!
@@AndyAstbury Ok, thanks, I'll check for one second-hand, cheers!
@@AndyAstbury Cheers Andy, I'm just finding your channel. Brilliant stuff you are making 👏 Could you please share the new dynamic range score for the D850 with the new firmware update?
Very informative and well presented. Thank you!
Glad it was helpful!
No bullshit truth. So glad you listened to Nigel and Beri😀
Cheers Ian 🍻🍻 Let's not forget Oscar Rowley as well - epic days, when photography was something you worked at.
This is something I've wondered about for a while. A big review site (one that posted an article claiming the 100 ISO models were exceeded by the 64 ISOs, giving latter 'medium format DR equivalence') has a dynamic range comparison tool (eg at /reviews/nikon-d810/13) that's useful for giving a coarse idea of usable DR. The likes of 850, 810, and 5DIV can all be compared, but the 800/E are missing. Sub in K-1 with same sensor but (like 800) no ISO 64 and it appears to have same shadow noise as 810/50 at +6EV. Most surprising was the 5DIV. According to DXO it should have same DR as my Fuji, but shadow detail is demonstrably better in the 5DIV. Those lab conditions must be extremely rarified.
Just ordered a used D800e for 630 euro here in Germany and found your video. Feeling confident about my decision. Can't wait to have it in the hand.
Good price and a wise choice 👌
Thank you so much for your video because I want to purchase a full frame camera to add to my arsenal and I was looking at the D810 and not finding a mint condition camera. I did find 2 D800E's in excellent condition and wasn't sure if I should purchase. Seeing your video is really helpful because now I will most likely purchase the D800E.
Good choice!
i just picked up a 800e for $650 US. It only had 1200 actuation it. I wish it had an articulating view screen, but I'm going to force myself to life without the "modern" convenience. Eye opening review!
You got a real bargain there Craig. Cheers 👍
Where did you buy it from?
Last night I was looking at the RAW files frmo my D800e and comparing to my D850. The 800e files recover WAY more shadow detail from the files and also when you do slide the shadows all the way to the right - it creates VERY LITTLE negative artifacts and seems to be very precise. The D850 produces way thicker halos that spread well into the upper midtones and you also can't recover AS much shadow details. Very unscientific of course but I am super impressed by the RAW files of the 800e. I am going to grab a d800 and do a side by side comparison soon.
3 high resolution Nikon sensors Jethro - D500=4.22um pixel pitch, D850=4.35um, and D800E=4.87um
Wider pixels, in general, lead to more Dynamic Range, more light-gathering capabilities, and better signal-to-noise ratio.
Narrower pixels require greater exposure calculation fidelity, but reward those efforts with a higher degree of fine detail recording.
Personally I regard them as different beasts for different jobs, and so they are not exactly like-for-like, and don't forget, 100ISO on a D850 is actually 1/3rd stop UNDERexposure - that's just in case you are using the same exposure settings to test the D850 against the D800E.
I've calibrated my Sekonic meter for both cameras at their respective base ISO's and the DR is about the same, but obviously the D850 requires 1/3rd stop more light to yield the same exposure results as the D800E.
That would fit with your findings!
Great presentation as always Andy. As you show not a *great* amount in it with the three bodies which I'd not expected considering the price differences of them. Educational - thanks :)
I got a used D800 for 300 bucks and I couldn't be happier. I thought about spending 1000 for a used D810 or way more for a used D50, but it does not make any sense. THanks for the great video!
Good choice!
Thanks Andy... I have the D800E and this was very informative...
Thank you for your effort sir! This information is so valuable for me.
You are most welcome Unal 😀😀👍😀
Howdy ho there 😘
Right back at you Ken 😘
There you go! 🙂
Absolutely amazed by your skills Sir, thanks a lot for sharing with us.
thanks for your clarifying video, it helped me a lot!
I would for the tilt screen alone considering how many times I have laid on my stomach to get the shot. Add in your focus peaking you mentioned , another 9 mp, focus shifting , an extra 4 fps with the v-grip ( I also shoot wildlife) &, you can double the usable iso also. Not to mention the out of camera color is better also IMHO. But it still won't make me a better photographer. DR drops with higher iso's & I'm sure u know that but for someone who watched & may not. I seen Dave Morrow do a test in a shaded wooded area & kept snapping away while raising the iso to determine the useable iso on a D810 for his landscape photography. Also seen Joe Brady use that sekonic meter (758 I believe) to figure out how far above & below his camera's meter zero point so he could take a reading & know how far to the left or usually to the right of the meter he could push his camera. so you can program the sekonic meter for the camera if I remember correctly. Have any vids on that at all? Anyway, great informative vid.
Thanks for the time you spent doing the tests. Nikon D810 user 📷
Cheers 👍
I agree. Sensor technology hasn't improved in 10 years. The processing is better and Nikon does extra noise reduction at ISO 400 or so, but the sensors are pretty much the same.
One of the issues you get with really low base ISOs is that going above the base ISO reduces the performance. So a higher base ISO camera will have more dynamic range and less noise if you have to boost the base ISO for low light, sports or wildlife.
I got a Nikon D800E last summer. I got a D700 two years ago after my D300 stoped working. I'm saving for a 2nd hand D850 after I get 24-70F2,8 and a 70-200mmF2.8 VR Zoom lenses and a 2nd hand AFS 400mm F2.8 G VR for landscape. I'm been taking pictures with Nikon since 1976. I will not move to the Zed system.
Hi Thomas -get the non-VR 24-70, and consider the 70-200 f4 for landscapes - it's a better set of optics.
@@AndyAstbury I have prime lenses today for landscape but few VR lenses. In the future if I can afford Z8 then I get a IBIS in the camera. Until then I need some lenses with VR for handholding in Low light. My lens set up is Nikon 24mmF3.5 PC, 45mmF2.8 PC, 85mmF2 8 PC, 28mmF1.4 E, 60mmF2.8 G macro, 85mmF2.8 D screw drive AF, 200mmF2.0 VR and a old 300mmF2.8 IF-ED, screw drive AF. Zeiss is planar 18mmF3.5, Planar 35mmF2.0, Planar 50mmF1.4 and Milvus 50mmF2.0 Macro, Planar100mmF2.0 Macro. I slowly upgrade to sharper lenses to use with a future D850. I use D700+ vertical grip for wildlife and panorama and D800E for woodland and landscape.
In all honesty, there is really nothing to choose between the Nikon D800/D800e/D850/Z7/Z9 as far as image quality is concerned (including dynamic range). In the real 🌍 world their sensors are basically the same (give or take some pixels). Therefore the biggest criteria becomes purely handling, speed and price.
Great piece of advice! Thank you!
Glad it was helpful!
great video, and very useful !! thanks .
Cheers for that, glad you found it useful !
Excellent...subscribed 😊
Thank You 👍
Excellent analysis
Cheers🍻
Great video...Thanks a lot! I own 2 x D800's, a D800e and a D810 :-)
Thanks for watching my ramble Benjamin as they usually send folk to sleep 😆
You're welcome. I told Ken you mentioned him. He was quite pleased indeed! 🙂@@AndyAstbury
Bought a used D800 years ago. Coming from a D200, it was a huge jump. I was happy with the D800 till the D850 was announced and I read and watched tests and vlogs about it - for whatever reason the image quality of my D800 suddenly dropped. Specially the dynamic range 😮😮😮. I obviously "needed" a D850. 😂😂😂. Tough I had the $$$, the price tag stopped me from buying it. I'am not a pro.
What stayed... I always wanted to own the D850. Last week I bought it, used, less than 5000 clicks 😊. So, out in the field with the D800 and D850 and reviewing the shots taken, I was sure the all the D850 images had a better dynamic range. Back at the computer 😢😢😢 there was not so much difference, if any. Am I disappointed? - no. Will I sell my ❤D800? - no. Will I sell the D850? - no. Did I subscribe to your channel? - YES.
Funny thing is Oly, guess what I bought last week - a used D850!
@@AndyAstbury we are twins 😁😁😁
Ooohhh, that's something you really don't want to be true!!!!!
Ok... you're my big brother 😊😊😊
@@AndyAstbury will you make a video about it?
Nicely explained Andy...
Thanks Alan 👍
PS...I own 2x D800's a D800e and a D810.
Great video! Much appreciated
Glad it was helpful!
Thank You .. Andy , Cheers
Are you suggesting we underexpose by 1/3 to 2/3rds of a stop or 1 full stop to keep the highlights at bay?
Hi Benjamin! I modify the curve at the highlights end so that the red arrow real clip is 254. You can recover 254 in Photoshop etc very easily but no matter how hard you try you can not recover 255! I'll then set my green clip arrow to 1/3Ev below that, then transfer the curve to the meter.
When using the meter it's now up to you to meter the brightest highlight, hold down the midtone button and use the jog wheel to 'move' the metered exposure to the highlight clip point.
Your level of confidence in metering matters here! If you know you have the brightest highlight then move the exposure to the far right clip point, but if you want to hedge your bets a little then go for the lower clip point!
Keeping highlights as far to the right as possible just boosts SNR in shadows, so every little helps as they say.
@@AndyAstbury Thanks a lot Andy!
Thank you for the video. Very clarifying. What do you think about d800´s dynamic range? I'm thinking on getting either d800 or d800e. The latter being slightly more expensive, yet there's not too much of a difference.
I think they are the same but for me the AA filter on the D800 is a bit too 'heavy', so I prefer the D800E. But the D800 is possibly better if you want it for 'people' photography etc - I only use the D800E's for landscape work so don't ever get near any situations that might cause moire. So if you're a landscaper or macro photographer I'd say D800E, portraits perhaps the D800. Cheers
@@AndyAstbury Thank you very much Andy. I am mainly an amateur photographer that wants to get his hands on a good instrument. I mix both landscape, low light landscape but aswell I enjoy street photography and some portrait or indoors pictures. I also heard about d750, but I think d800/e would be a better option specially in the current price list? Plus I don't care mush about weight.
I have the D800E and D850 and also dont find any great improvement in dynamic range. Although the D850 is a significant upgrade elsewhere...
Certainly Roy, the BSI sensor for one. But the BSI benefit would have been even greater if they'd left it at 36Mp, but not many folk see that.
Really nice video, facts over myth.
Thank you 👍
Thank you very much. I want to ask you in terms of image quality which one do you suggest D800E or D810? I was check all over the internet to find which is the difference between those two and nobody but nobody exept you didnt mention it.
From an image quality PoV Stelios I'd favour my D800Es all day long - the D810 is theoretically the better sensor but I see no difference in image quality at 100ISO. The D810 has a native 50ISO base but I can never see any actual difference in the images. There is a comparison on photographylife but honestly, when I did a side by side I couldn't see the differences they were stating. The D810 AF is better though, but I never use that anyway. Sorry can't be of any better help.
Thank you very much you really helped me. You are awesome.
The D810 colors are washed and they have nothing to do with the great D800e (Different CFA)
www.dpreview.com/reviews/image-comparison/fullscreen?attr18=lowlight&attr13_0=nikon_d800e&attr13_1=nikon_d810&attr13_2=nikon_d800e&attr13_3=nikon_d810&attr15_0=raw&attr15_1=raw&attr15_2=raw&attr15_3=raw&attr16_0=100&attr16_1=100&attr16_2=100&attr16_3=100&normalization=compare&widget=629&x=0.28446691780774547&y=-0.6331489949779274
Also the D800E gives 1 mpx better resolution in comparison with the D810 with almost any lens used.
www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Compare/Side-by-side/Nikon-D810-versus-Nikon-D800E___963_814
Love this video
How D700 would score in Usable Dynamic Range contest?
Dunno, don't own one, so can't test it!
Hey Andy, how is the usable dynamic range on a typical (modern) APS-C camera? 6 stops, 7 stops? Thank you :)
Hi - not tested any, but I expect say the Nikon D500 to be a little shorter than it's FX equal because the photosites are smaller - it is afterall very prone to blowing specular highlights - more so than a D850 or D800E.
It is afterall the size of the photosites that defines dynamic range, not the size of the sensor.
@@AndyAstbury Thank you :) The only FX camera I can afford right now is the D700, is it good for casual use (street photography, some low light shots, etc)?
Not quite as good at higher ISOs as the legendary D3 but it's not a bad camera at all.
Nice work. Would it make sense with my D810 to shoot RAW, spot meter the brightest highlight where I want to preserve detail, overexpose 3 to 3.5 stops, then bring up the shadows in post? I’d likely bracket too. It’s been a while since I shot color transparency.
Hi Jim, spot for your highlights then add around 2 to 2.3 +Ev comp on the D810. Your shadows will not need lifting, or not very much.
Andy Astbury Thank you much. The more things change, the more they stay the same.
@@AndyAstbury Hi, Andy! According to them, is the D810 the same as slide film in the dynamic range? I used the slide film with exactly this setting.
Andy, you need to increase your audio, I had to crank up my volume 100% and still could not understand your voice because your voice is so muffled.
Is the D800 DR same or similar to the D800E ?
Hi Fred, as far as I can tell, yes .
The Thaikon Z9 is still with a Sony sensor. Nothing new under the sun.
I know it is an old video, but I'll try to ask a question anyway.
I am in the market for a high MP camera. The D850 it is out of question for budget reasons.
Between the D800, D800E and the D810, what do you recommend? In the video you stand for the D800E, but you didn't mentioned the non E model and 4 years ago the difference in price with a D810 was there.
For the price of nowadays, the the D800 it is definitively cheap, it goes for €600-ish if not less, a D800E around €750 and the D810 €900. They are more or less there, a +/- €150, given the small difference, I would not make the choice based on price.
The D810 seems a more refined version, everyone seems to recommend it over the D800. May I ask you opinion?
Thanks.
It's an old video, and I still have not got a D850!.........for the same reason as yourself......
The D800E is priced higher because it's the better camera.....for one reason; it has NO AA filter, and the D800 does - and it's a bit on the heavy side, which makes sharpening big prints a bit more difficult.
Personally, I never fancied the D810 because from a stills imaging PoV there's no difference. A D810A however, was something I fancied because of the extended shutter speed range and sensors extended hydrogen alpha performance.
The DR is pretty much the same on the 850,810 and 800E so, the only real and meaningful differences are offered by the 850 - BSI sensor, flippy screen etc. Oh, and a few more megs of course - if that floats your boat. IMO the 800E is best VFM, but at the end of the day you buy what you feel is going to work best for you.
@@AndyAstbury yeah the D850 was out of question. I was just wondering if the extra €150 from the D800E vs D810 may be worth it. The D810 got the AA filter removed completely (where the D800E has some software doing it, in fact it is slightly less sharp, it seems), and a little bit better overhaul it seems, from AF, Buffer, FPS, shutter noise, etc…
Many people seams to call the D810 what the D800 should have been. From here my indecision.
There is no software at play in the 800E. The principle LPF works in the vertical only, and the secondary LPF tends to cancel the effect by only working in the horizontal - thus leading to a 'zero AA effect'.
Personally, I thought it a stupid solution, just leave the LPF out of the filter pack would be a simpler one!
But a few of us did side-by-side tests when the cameras were current, shooting the same landscape scene with the same lens etc, and where the 800E gives perceptually sharper results is in the middle distance with 14/15/21mm lenses. It's like there's some wavelet frequency at play.
As you increase the pixel density of sensors, the need for any form of LPF will naturally decrease, which is a good thing. Mind you, so does SNR decrease - which is a bad thing. Swings 'n roundabouts bloody everywhere!
@@AndyAstbury thanks for the explanation.
How does the D800 compare?
Hi Benjamin, pretty much the same as the D800E. The AA filter doesn't seem to have any effect on the D800 dr-wise.
@@AndyAstbury Thanks again. I am glad I have these gems.
How does the D800 compare with the D800E?
As far as I know Peter pretty much the same - middle distance super-fine detail acuity drops a bit in wide angle shots due to the AA filter from the images I've seen from the D800, but honestly I've never used one so can't say anything for definite.
i tried Wheeler, all i heard was a tirade of foul language, did I get the right guy? fat with tatoos. So much wanted to learn, but was not going to listen to such continuous foul language. I swear, we all swear, but NOT in public speaking, only a low life does that
That's the guy John, sad to say. The entire nature of his channel has changed completely, and he never seems to talk about cameras much now, just crazy talk.
None of this has anything to do with photography.
Prick......how to make yourself look like an idiot
I guess the takeaway is if you want a great deal on a Nikon for landscape pick up a D800E I saw one barely used (5000 shutter activations) for 500 USD.
Hi Mark - that would be a great buy! The D850 is something I'd like because of the BSI sensor, but it doesn't really have any more useable dynamic range than a D800E so it's not at the top of my wish-list. And the D800E is the only camera I've ever owned a duplicate of!