oh my God I’m so glad you interviewed her. I love her book. This lady is so smart after reading books by Harville Hendrix, Stan Tatkin, Terry Real and Sue Johnson, I find her book to be the most helpful and am so grateful to her for writing it in such a gentle way. I also bought the audiobook so I could hear her read it to me because it’s more powerful coming from her voice, ❤
I watched the whole thing and as usual it was a great interview. You do such a good job asking all the important questions. She seems like she is so easy to talk to. thanks to you both.
In this moment I'd really like to share (maybe more for myself walking out the door), that when we suddenly "discover" a new person and their views that radically change our own orientation and bring us renewed hope, all the other people we met and listened to along the way prepared us for this awakening! It's rarely if ever the "one" that deserves the majority of the accolades, but the "all" of a journey. Mostly, the one doing the work is the hero. Rock on seekers.
It makes complete sense to me, that if people meet and are attracted to one another while they are unhealthy, they would quite naturally not want to stay together once healed. They joined under less than authentic conditions for needful reasons. Usually, one of the two people is much more into recovery than the other, and unless the one seeking fully can accept their partner unconditionally, it can be difficult to overcome the elephant in the room!
I agree!! It's a shame that a lot of these conversations focus mostly on romantic relationships when we so easily can feel triggered or hurt in any of our relationships and I feel that conflicts cannot necessarily be resolved in the same way depending on what relationship it is. I would also add health practitioners to your list. They may have great skills in whatever modality they've specialised in but may not always be so good at truly listening and may therefore miss or disregard something important that their client/patient tries to bring up which can be an important clue regarding the issue the client/patient is consulting them for. The practitioner won't then truly be able to help their client/patient who may be left feeling misunderstood and resentful.
Loved it, I am reasonably knowledgeable about attachment theory… can we make episode specifically for fearful avoidance? I know it is rarest of the styles and the most complicated… therefore the least discussed… our journey towards secure attainments are riddled with pitfalls from both ends and generally unsupported by people in environments we created from fearful avoidant position ( except perhaps therapists … our generally only anchor point to secure person, very often emotionally mature person)… asking from personal experience point… thank you 🙏
This is honestly the only content on attachment styles in relationship I've found useful / enjoyed. I liked the discussion around attachment needs. Thank you
Wow. You guys cut right into the juicy stuff. I've watched and read dozens of takes on attachment styles, but this is by far the most comprehensive overview I've seen on the topic. A++!
The fact that you just posted this when I’ve been intensely researching this topic to figure out some attachment issues that keep arising in my life the last few months. So thankful 🙏
I really appreciate this topic so much. I have been working so hard on accepting my cPTSD and acknowledging my fear-anxious attachment style to my securely attached partner. Julie is talking as if she knows me and I finally picking up each of the pieces of the puzzles that what I thought my own demons because I was all alone all my life and never had present caregivers and I became a parent to my younger siblings at the age of 8, and those puzzles are shame, and my attachment style is my evidence for me to figure out my life as an adult and in a secure relationship. I was in awe when she pointed out that is common in a relationship. I am literally back to reality and feeling my feelings again instead of suppressing them and go back to my dorsal Vagal state again. It is quite exhausting to go back to my old habits just because it takes effort to learn. But I would rather be sweating while being authentic to myself than act still while I am burning pain inside. Thank you so much, Forrest for your hard work to support strangers like me.
In case it's of interest, the idea of freedom as agency is seen in Simone de Beauvoir's *Ethics of Ambiguity* . Here's a brief gist of it --> The childish perspective of freedom as coming from limitless options leads people, when facing serious issues, to a quest for answers from authorities with simple answers instead of doing the hard work of delving into complexity and thinking for themselves. These child-adults sever freedom from responsibility in hope of severing it from anxiety: "rather than be anxious, we should just try to relax and be carefree". The alternative perspective of the wise adult is recognizing that accepting responsibility *creates* a profound sense of freedom through acknowledging that each choice is in fact our own.
Reading these lines i couldn't help but think of Jocko Willink's _"discipline equals freedom"_ and _"extreme ownership"_ - i wonder if Jocko is familiar with Beauvoir's work! 🤔 I'll definately look into getting the book you referenced. 🙏🏼
Both her book Secure Love and her podcast are wonderful. Episode 11 was incredible, listening to the change that occurs when someones shame bound feelings are recognized and validated. Incredible work. Love Being Well Podcast!🌱🙌💗🌊
yyyyyyyyup! All of it, from childhood for sure. All I attract is avoid, cold non-communicative types and I burn out because it was always non reciprocal, and I know we both have problems on the other side of the spectrum and it's no surprise to me that we attract each other .....it's a) what we are used to, and b) we are trying to find what we didn't have in childhood, as well as gravitating towards that because it's conditioning - and it's the opposite positives that cause attraction but not success. I just lost a "best friend" who love bombed me for 14 years ago and I thought she was a friend, sister, and bestie I ever had. Yup, the negative self talk, regret, feeling too much, shame. This needs to be expanded to singles' loneliness because of this.
@@Jennifer-gr7hn I now see that you yourself had brought up the issue with healthcare practitioners (see my reply to your other comment 😊). It's a struggle for sure. Wishing you better luck and success in the future 🤞🏻😌🌺
Thank you for this topic. I live with 3 adopted people, my husband and my 2 kids. I have a history of trauma in my family of origin so we all have insecure and/or avoidant attachment styles! This was really helpful, as always with your casts!
Love this episode. I sometimes wonder if attachment styles isn’t a little trendy but boy do the ideas really click for me and my life. Julie is awesome.
When people are heard, they don't have to escalate. High conflict legal custody disputes are the opposite. Why? Legal professionals make more money and the system doesn't exist to discover the truth or create solutions. Would be wonderful if it worked more like this.
Wow. This explains so much to me. I've been in an on again, off again relationship with someone I've know for 30 years. It's never worked and we're not speaking at the moment. I am anxious attached and he he is avoidant. We fight about the dumbest stuff, honestly. I definitely have trauma from an emotionally unavailable mother and he has added to it over the years. Our fights are usually because of how he speaks to me when something bothers him, or when I'm trying to share things that are bothering me personally he doesn't want to hear it. When I tell him he's hurt my feelings, if I get an apology, it's a non-apology like I'm sorry you feel that way, which triggers me even more. Then he'll say I'm not talking about this anymore when I'm trying to get to the root of the problem. He'll tell me to leave if I "can't let it go" or hang up on or just avoid me until it blows over. I still want to talk about it and he just wants to move on from it. Then I get called crazy, I'm too emotional, I'm too dramatic and honestly left feeling like I am in fact crazy, when I'm just trying to figure out why this keeps happening over and over again. He tells me I'm selfish and everything always has to be about me. What I want, what I need and when I need it and it's getting tiresome. I've realized he's completely, emotionally unavailable. The fact that he doesn't care to figure out this pattern, of why I feel hurt and how he just keeps compounding that insecurity in me. We currently haven't really talked in a month because we got into a fight about a dirty dish I put in the sink and he called it "childish". He refused to talk to me about it and now, suddenly, he needs time alone, he has other things going on in his life that don't concern me that he needs to deal with and he needs some space. Now, as much as I care about him, I think he has pushed me me too far. I'm afraid to talk to him about me fears about us, my health, my financial situation, work or my living situation for fear of being mocked and told to put on my "big girl panties and deal with it". When I share my other passions in life with him, I'm told "I wish you cared about me as much as you cared about (fill in the blank)". Then I'm told by him, that he never sees me happy or hasn't in a long time or that I'm a miserable person, when all I want is a person who will see, hear and validate me. I'm now afraid to share anything. And there is obviously a lot he doesn't share with me and refuses to budge or bend at all for the person he says he loves so much, always has and always will. We obviously are speaking two completely different languages and unless something changes, I know this will never, ever work. I wish I could show him this video, but I'd probably be mocked for that too. He tells me that he has put up with more from me than any man ever would, and good luck finding someone who can deal with me. The thing is, is that ive been in relationships before that were never this volatile. Never. But he has. I'm just extremely sad about it all, but growing stronger by the day realizing I'm not 100% crazy.
It's funny that an SNL skit can so easily be used as a temporal anchor. Would you modify any of your thoughts if one or more of the people in the couple was neurodivergent? I have ADHD (diagnosed and being treated) and am Autistic (newly self diagnosed, planning on getting officially diagnosed...but like bruh so many things make sense now) How would that change your approach if at all?
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oh my God I’m so glad you interviewed her. I love her book. This lady is so smart after reading books by Harville Hendrix, Stan Tatkin, Terry Real and Sue Johnson, I find her book to be the most helpful and am so grateful to her for writing it in such a gentle way. I also bought the audiobook so I could hear her read it to me because it’s more powerful coming from her voice, ❤
Yeah I think it's a really excellent piece of work.
I watched the whole thing and as usual it was a great interview. You do such a good job asking all the important questions. She seems like she is so easy to talk to. thanks to you both.
In this moment I'd really like to share (maybe more for myself walking out the door), that when we suddenly "discover" a new person and their views that radically change our own orientation and bring us renewed hope, all the other people we met and listened to along the way prepared us for this awakening!
It's rarely if ever the "one" that deserves the majority of the accolades, but the "all" of a journey. Mostly, the one doing the work is the hero.
Rock on seekers.
It makes complete sense to me, that if people meet and are attracted to one another while they are unhealthy, they would quite naturally not want to stay together once healed. They joined under less than authentic conditions for needful reasons.
Usually, one of the two people is much more into recovery than the other, and unless the one seeking fully can accept their partner unconditionally, it can be difficult to overcome the elephant in the room!
stands true for ALL relationships.....friendships, family, coworkers. Every one.
I agree!! It's a shame that a lot of these conversations focus mostly on romantic relationships when we so easily can feel triggered or hurt in any of our relationships and I feel that conflicts cannot necessarily be resolved in the same way depending on what relationship it is.
I would also add health practitioners to your list. They may have great skills in whatever modality they've specialised in but may not always be so good at truly listening and may therefore miss or disregard something important that their client/patient tries to bring up which can be an important clue regarding the issue the client/patient is consulting them for. The practitioner won't then truly be able to help their client/patient who may be left feeling misunderstood and resentful.
Loved it, I am reasonably knowledgeable about attachment theory… can we make episode specifically for fearful avoidance? I know it is rarest of the styles and the most complicated… therefore the least discussed… our journey towards secure attainments are riddled with pitfalls from both ends and generally unsupported by people in environments we created from fearful avoidant position ( except perhaps therapists … our generally only anchor point to secure person, very often emotionally mature person)… asking from personal experience point… thank you 🙏
This is honestly the only content on attachment styles in relationship I've found useful / enjoyed. I liked the discussion around attachment needs. Thank you
Great guest! Great video! Thank you
Wow. You guys cut right into the juicy stuff. I've watched and read dozens of takes on attachment styles, but this is by far the most comprehensive overview I've seen on the topic. A++!
The fact that you just posted this when I’ve been intensely researching this topic to figure out some attachment issues that keep arising in my life the last few months. So thankful 🙏
I really appreciate this topic so much. I have been working so hard on accepting my cPTSD and acknowledging my fear-anxious attachment style to my securely attached partner. Julie is talking as if she knows me and I finally picking up each of the pieces of the puzzles that what I thought my own demons because I was all alone all my life and never had present caregivers and I became a parent to my younger siblings at the age of 8, and those puzzles are shame, and my attachment style is my evidence for me to figure out my life as an adult and in a secure relationship. I was in awe when she pointed out that is common in a relationship. I am literally back to reality and feeling my feelings again instead of suppressing them and go back to my dorsal Vagal state again. It is quite exhausting to go back to my old habits just because it takes effort to learn. But I would rather be sweating while being authentic to myself than act still while I am burning pain inside. Thank you so much, Forrest for your hard work to support strangers like me.
In case it's of interest, the idea of freedom as agency is seen in Simone de Beauvoir's *Ethics of Ambiguity* . Here's a brief gist of it --> The childish perspective of freedom as coming from limitless options leads people, when facing serious issues, to a quest for answers from authorities with simple answers instead of doing the hard work of delving into complexity and thinking for themselves. These child-adults sever freedom from responsibility in hope of severing it from anxiety: "rather than be anxious, we should just try to relax and be carefree". The alternative perspective of the wise adult is recognizing that accepting responsibility *creates* a profound sense of freedom through acknowledging that each choice is in fact our own.
This is a great reference.
Reading these lines i couldn't help but think of Jocko Willink's _"discipline equals freedom"_ and _"extreme ownership"_ - i wonder if Jocko is familiar with Beauvoir's work! 🤔
I'll definately look into getting the book you referenced. 🙏🏼
Both her book Secure Love and her podcast are wonderful. Episode 11 was incredible, listening to the change that occurs when someones shame bound feelings are recognized and validated. Incredible work. Love Being Well Podcast!🌱🙌💗🌊
yyyyyyyyup! All of it, from childhood for sure. All I attract is avoid, cold non-communicative types and I burn out because it was always non reciprocal, and I know we both have problems on the other side of the spectrum and it's no surprise to me that we attract each other .....it's a) what we are used to, and b) we are trying to find what we didn't have in childhood, as well as gravitating towards that because it's conditioning - and it's the opposite positives that cause attraction but not success. I just lost a "best friend" who love bombed me for 14 years ago and I thought she was a friend, sister, and bestie I ever had. Yup, the negative self talk, regret, feeling too much, shame. This needs to be expanded to singles' loneliness because of this.
then add healthcare/doctors doing the same dismissive, avoidance, etc and you literally die physically from it.
@@Jennifer-gr7hn I now see that you yourself had brought up the issue with healthcare practitioners (see my reply to your other comment 😊). It's a struggle for sure. Wishing you better luck and success in the future 🤞🏻😌🌺
Thank you for this topic. I live with 3 adopted people, my husband and my 2 kids. I have a history of trauma in my family of origin so we all have insecure and/or avoidant attachment styles! This was really helpful, as always with your casts!
So a secure attachment style might look a lot like the “conscious competence” model 😍 great show as usual!
Love this episode. I sometimes wonder if attachment styles isn’t a little trendy but boy do the ideas really click for me and my life. Julie is awesome.
absolutely - inside job, self work! Yes yes yes
The only love and understanding you will ever experience is the love and understanding you Give.
GREAT PODCAST. LOVE JULIE MENANNO, LOOKING FORWARD TO LISTENING TO HER NEW BOOK. THANK YOU
When people are heard, they don't have to escalate. High conflict legal custody disputes are the opposite. Why? Legal professionals make more money and the system doesn't exist to discover the truth or create solutions. Would be wonderful if it worked more like this.
Wow. This explains so much to me. I've been in an on again, off again relationship with someone I've know for 30 years. It's never worked and we're not speaking at the moment. I am anxious attached and he he is avoidant. We fight about the dumbest stuff, honestly. I definitely have trauma from an emotionally unavailable mother and he has added to it over the years. Our fights are usually because of how he speaks to me when something bothers him, or when I'm trying to share things that are bothering me personally he doesn't want to hear it. When I tell him he's hurt my feelings, if I get an apology, it's a non-apology like I'm sorry you feel that way, which triggers me even more. Then he'll say I'm not talking about this anymore when I'm trying to get to the root of the problem. He'll tell me to leave if I "can't let it go" or hang up on or just avoid me until it blows over. I still want to talk about it and he just wants to move on from it. Then I get called crazy, I'm too emotional, I'm too dramatic and honestly left feeling like I am in fact crazy, when I'm just trying to figure out why this keeps happening over and over again. He tells me I'm selfish and everything always has to be about me. What I want, what I need and when I need it and it's getting tiresome. I've realized he's completely, emotionally unavailable. The fact that he doesn't care to figure out this pattern, of why I feel hurt and how he just keeps compounding that insecurity in me. We currently haven't really talked in a month because we got into a fight about a dirty dish I put in the sink and he called it "childish". He refused to talk to me about it and now, suddenly, he needs time alone, he has other things going on in his life that don't concern me that he needs to deal with and he needs some space. Now, as much as I care about him, I think he has pushed me me too far. I'm afraid to talk to him about me fears about us, my health, my financial situation, work or my living situation for fear of being mocked and told to put on my "big girl panties and deal with it". When I share my other passions in life with him, I'm told "I wish you cared about me as much as you cared about (fill in the blank)". Then I'm told by him, that he never sees me happy or hasn't in a long time or that I'm a miserable person, when all I want is a person who will see, hear and validate me. I'm now afraid to share anything. And there is obviously a lot he doesn't share with me and refuses to budge or bend at all for the person he says he loves so much, always has and always will. We obviously are speaking two completely different languages and unless something changes, I know this will never, ever work. I wish I could show him this video, but I'd probably be mocked for that too. He tells me that he has put up with more from me than any man ever would, and good luck finding someone who can deal with me. The thing is, is that ive been in relationships before that were never this volatile. Never. But he has. I'm just extremely sad about it all, but growing stronger by the day realizing I'm not 100% crazy.
It's funny that an SNL skit can so easily be used as a temporal anchor.
Would you modify any of your thoughts if one or more of the people in the couple was neurodivergent?
I have ADHD (diagnosed and being treated) and am Autistic (newly self diagnosed, planning on getting officially diagnosed...but like bruh so many things make sense now)
How would that change your approach if at all?