How Modern Dating Became Such a Dumpster Fire (ft. Sadia Khan)
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- Опубликовано: 21 май 2024
- Let's be honest: the modern dating landscape is a shit show. From declining marriage rates and rising infidelity to the nightmare of using dating apps-it's brutal out there.
With all these supposedly "easy" ways to meet new people, why are the people who want long-term, stable relationships so fed up with the dating world?
I invited dating and relationships coach Sadia Khan on the pod to discuss how the skills we use to excel in modern dating often sabotage long-term happiness.
Sadia brings a refreshing, thought-provoking perspective to the conversation that will help you navigate the complexities of today's dating world. We dive into the role of self-esteem in successful relationships, the pitfalls of modern dating advice, and the skewed expectations shaped by social media, dating apps, and pornography.
Enjoy.
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00:04:26 Modern dating: a divorce training ground
00:07:46 Dating apps
00:14:04 Male-female friendships
00:16:17 What men's dating advice gets wrong
00:21:53 Deprioritizing sex
00:31:45 Oversexualization
00:38:50 What women's dating advice gets wrong
00:49:21 Self-esteem and relationships
00:53:19 Peace vs denial
/ markmanson
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/ markmanson
/ iammarkmanson
Thank you for having me ❤
Much love, Sadia!
30:03 haraam! 😂 Sadia you're very cute
I was very impressed with how out-of-touch and bad your dating takes were. Did you pay to be on this podcast?
@@J31you're dead on arrival
@@DDCrp Did you just pull that out of a hat of random idioms?
The word "we" is being used a lot here. I'm a 34M, I don't personally know anyone who actually uses dating apps, most of the men I know are not going on millions of pointless dates or having random casual sex. So I'm not sure where this "we" is coming from. "We" regular guys are not doing any of that, and many of us are pretty good looking, resourceful and emotionally mature. We're just normal people, but I suspect that's exactly what our problem is.
It's so crazy to me, I see immature guys all over social media and hear about them often, but among the men I know in my personal life, I would recommend anyone of my girlfriends to date them. They're good men. Flawed men, but good. I don't know where all these shitty men are. Places I don't bother to go I guess.
Ikr
Thank you for this comment. I listen to people like this and the only thing I learn form it, is that they live in a completely different world than myself.
@@kausha7135 Places like bars and dating apps.
I believe, in a way, they’re falling internally the same trap that they’re trying to highlight and critique: being outwardly/extrinsically focussed. Except here that outward focus is materialising in assuming those who have visibility online - through use/engagement with social media, apps, whatever - is representative of everyone. So only the behaviour and trends of those very visibly online has any visibility and cache. It makes discussions like these pretty hard to connect to.
Unpopular opinion: I’m open to being in a relationship but I do feel being happily single is underrated and mostly not talked about from us single people since we’re really minding our own business ❤
If you've never been in the deep committed relationship they are talking about here, then you don't know what you're talking about and ultimately aren't making an informed decision. The reason few people talk about the "happily single" person is - as they said at the very begging of this episode - the data is self evident that people in committed relationships are far better off on several important metrics!
🎯🎯🎯💯✨
my small experience.....being happily single is often so far overrated. I ask myself, if you're doing well, why do you have to be single? Do these people have no needs that go beyond eating, sleeping, working, consuming, partying, playing PlayStation, or bingeing series? 🙂
@noazucar519 Firstly, because I take friends and family for granted and that's why I didn't mention them. Secondly: Because I don't experience the same kind of kisses, caresses, coziness, cuddling with each other and the same feelings with my family and friends as I do in a relationship.
I'll be honest, even though I had good times when I was single, I was less happy in a relationship than I am today. Hardly anyone dares to say it. Everyone wants to comment as a “superhero”.
Why give up all of this Relationship-Stuff? What is the benefit? I don't really understand these statements in millions of social-media-comments. Anyone who has to share/post/tell me everywhere "how happy they are as single" also has some concerns as to why they need so much external confirmation/likes for these sentences. Because they don’t really believe it themselves? I don't know
🙂
Very large difference in being happy by yourself and having someone who enhances what happiness you already have.
I'll tell you why. Because everyone is getting their dating advice from the internet. Every possible nuance has been overanalysed and regurgitated as fact by every man and his dog and it's confusing the shit out of everyone
You are one of those people who reply to the title of a video and not to the actual content, how does it feel?
@@kinetic-cybernetic Am I wrong ?
@@kinetic-cybernetic Am I wrong ?
@@kinetic-cybernetic Podcast is an hour long and I replied 13 minutes ago. Of course I replied to the title you moose lol.
Yeah, in the past, it was just approaching someone with sincerity, speaking your mind, getting her number, and hopefully, she will respond well when you call 😊
Met my wife on a dating app, Coffee Meets Bagel. I think what made it work was there weren’t unlimited matches or even a limited but large number of matches each day.
You got one or two each day and that was it. It made you more willing to consider dates who maybe had one or a few subjective flaws, but many admirable characteristics that were attractive.
Perfect isn’t flawless. Perfect isn’t ideal.
And my perfect match has flaws, but I’ve learned to appreciate them. 3 years of marriage 💍
Beautiful
As some say internet causes such effect that opinion of minority makes it look like opinion of majority....
because the opinion of minor group is spread so much by the algorithm that people believe that its opinion of majority of people,
even though outside the media, people have free will and decide to have their own opinion and have decent conversations.
So maybe this way men are indoctrinated to be superficial, and find a superficial values, and women are indoctrinated to be superficial, and care only about materialism.
As some say looking into mirror too often and checking the looks is also about materialism.
As you stop obsessing about looks, stop being indoctrinated by media and corporations, who sell fake boobs and fake eyelashees, and for men fake muscles powders etc
and start living freely, with ermpathy, compassion, humor, you will be attractive because of your personality.
She said it well 12 years old girls are conditionerd to have fake values so people should realize ita nd treach teenagers the real values.....People think capitalism is an excuse that teenagers are strugling withg values and mental health etc.
Nice. If someone says they don’t have flaws or you don’t think they have any, we have to dig deeper or just plain leave. No one is perfect and if we see them as that, it’s not going to end well.
Interesting video content, My relationship of 5 years ended a month ago. The love of my life decided to leave me. I really love her so much I can’t stop thinking about her, I’ve tried my very best to get her back in my life, but to no avail, I’m frustrated, I don’t see my life with anyone else. I’ve done my best to get rid of the thoughts of her, but I can’t, I don’t know why I’m saying this here, I really miss her and just can’t stop thinking about her.
its difficult to let go of someone you love, i was in a similar situation, my relationship of 12 years ended, but i couldnt just let her go i did all i could to get her back, i had to seek the help of a spiritual counselor who helped me bring her back
Amazing, how did you get a spiritual counselor, and how do i reach her?
Her name is shelly renee white , and she is a great spiritual counselor who can bring back your ex.
Thank you for this valuable information, i just looked her up now online. impressive
It is not clear why she decided to end the relationship. Did you discuss with her why she wanted the relationship to end? If she could leave you knowing how you feel about her, your feelings for her will not be the reason she comes back to you (if ever). Regardless of the outcome, you have to find contentment within yourself regardless of whether you are in a relationship or not.
We live in a society where everything is disposable, even our relationships.
Capitalism destroy everything...
So sad
Mid 40s, been single for nearly a decade. It's normal now, and I've learned to enjoy my time alone. I spent many years struggling with discontentment and not liking who I was. Not anymore. Now, I don't have the energy, let alone desire, to "get back in the game"
I feel that, man. I’m sorry.
That's okay man, many men are like this now. I'm happy to stay single and childless for the rest of eternity.
Don't give up brothers. Stay strong!
Dont give up !!!!!
@@danahalenezi6713What are we giving up? After a certain point it's not worth it and if you're good by yourself, just be by yourself.
I’m with you Drew, no dating apps, social media or porn. I refuse to be part of the demand that creates that exploitative supply. Meeting women in person through friends and activities will either work or it won’t. Either outcome is perfectly acceptable.
I love your attitude. All the best to you.
Deal with the overwhelming narcisism that infected the world en masse?
Or avoid the hassle?
You can see where the answer is...
You’re on social media right now 😂
@@sirdiealot53 the irony is real...
God. Marry me xD
I've never heard of her, but as a psychologist and relationship coach, she lost credibility when she said it's ok for someone to exploit the other if they are being exploited. Also, they spent so long expressing valid points on how some men view relationships, but gloss over the problems some women bring to relationships. Men are taught to value looks and women are taught to value a man's wealth it seems. I'm surprised Mark didn't challenge her more or ask more questions about women's role in toxic dating. As someone else stated, she's above average in looks (with modifications from the looks of it) and wealth so it doesn't seem like she can relate to the average person dating in this day and age. I wouldn't listen to her if I was still dating.
Great podcast. Stop advertising garbage though. There is no way to "supercharge" your mitochondria. Neither do they need supercharging. Eat well, sleep well, and get some exercise. That is good enough.
😂😂
I think it’s one of those things they have to do for funding. YT has been waging a successful demonetization campaign against all the good channels lol
@@FirstLast-mj7ptwhat is with all of the ads and now each creator is running their own sponsor ads.. feels like half the time I’m anxiously trying to skip ads
There is but it’s not in these ads
I just want to meet people in real life. But in most places it’s now considered inappropriate to approach others. (Obviously I’m not catcalling anyone or any crazy stuff.) Literally just introducing myself or saying hi gets me looks of disgust or fear. 😞
Maybe some eye contact and a smile to each other in advance help. If this doesn't happen, the person is probably not interested in that situation (or in you).
this is, for me, one of the worst affects of social media. people just gives a weird look.
but the catch is you shouldn't prevent yourself from getting those crazy looks. because among the crowd there will be another person just like you who is also wanting to meet people in real life.
I want to meet people in person too, but I am afraid of them. 🤷♀️ I wish I wasn't.
Well, the problem with meeting a total stranger at a grocery store lets say, is because you now have to consider the first date carefully. She will likely demand meeting in a public place (implying that she does not trust you), and she will often expect dinner or drinks which you as the man will pay for (implying that she wants to be compensated for her time she is spending with you). Not a good position to be in, and as a man you are off to a bad start. Meeting at the grocery store or meeting on an app yields the same results.
I can understand why women are afraid of being approached in public. Or anyone would be afraid of that or at least weirded out a little. I just think it’s sad. And a lame effect of social media and online dating. Online probably FEELS safer. But now we are seeing scams and abuse and very awful things from men who met women online. Also catfishing has existed for everyone since online dating started. So I guess whatever makes people feel safe is fine… but meeting a dude online doesn’t make them less a murderer or anything else.
If Ted Bundy were around now he’d be swiping around on dating apps rather than approaching people in real life. The best you could do online before meeting someone is a background check really, and that’s not much. My point is it’s a false sense of security.
The best way to meet potential romantic partners outside of apps is to develop hobbies or interests that generally draw members of the opposite sex. Almost everyone can find something they genuinely enjoy that generally draws members of the opposite sex. When I was single I tried yoga, pottery making, salsa dancing, and a book club to meet people. I found that salsa dancing and belonging to a book club were the only two of these hobbies I actually enjoyed so they were the only ones I stuck with. But I met numerous romantic partners through both hobbies before ultimately meeting my wife.
I don't think meeting in real life is any better today. Dating in person feels like a cattle auction . The men stand around like castrated cattle, staring into space, unable to make eye contact or form a sentence. They are waiting for women to choose them, drag them through life and to give them orders they can follow because they're unable to make any decisions on their own today.
A woman winked at me once. We dates for 2 years and it ended after she tried to stab me. Good times.
I suppose that stabbing just fell out of the sky without any motivation on your end?
😂
😂
😂😂😂
I would give a thumbs up, but you are currently at 69.
A top model and a millionaire giving dating advice what could go wrong.
Everytime I try to listen to what she's saying I notice her attempting to tell men what to think and believe, stating random things as if they were actually factual. I just wonder, who actually listens to this her? Maybe a primary school boy
@@kelleraltidor4097 Couldn't agree more. All i heard was cope from her and a lot of talk. She has no idea how men work and she's talking a to a happily married man (a rare minority) and a single dude who has fuck you status. This woman needs to spend an hour with Myron from fresh and fit.
Shes a professional psychologist..
😂😂😂😂😂
Porn is what men use to get by, not strive for. Average women don't want average men.
I'm almost 21. I listened to the podcast from the start to the end and while I was at it, I cleared out all the sexual stuff I had on my phone, deleted accounts I had on sexting websites and I'm probably gonna stop social media usage. Good job Mark 👍
as a woman, that is so hot. You're gonna do great! Keep going
😂 that's the best way to win at life. Listening to some 40 y o wman who, for so,e weird reasons thinks she can teach men how to be men, accompanied by some dudes in their 40s who married their wives for vibes and couldn't get the girls they wanted.
I do find it difficult to take someone serious who mocks the airbrushed model and unrealistic expectations while going out of her way to present herself as an airbrushed model in every way, shape or form and is without a doubt one of the most beautiful women you would ever meet. I feel like from her position of serious privilege it does not really put her in a position to understand what the dating scene would ever be like for normal people.
I feel the same about Mark. Whether you agree with "red-pill advice or not (for the record, I do not) there is one thing they say which is true and is backed up by the small amount of dating site analytics that are publicly available (the now famous okcupid chart) 10-20% of men are doing 80-90% of the dating. Mark was in that 10-20%. Most of what he says about men is relevant to that 10-20%. the guy who's been on Tinder for 3 years with only one match ever who subsequently ghosted him for being 5'7" isn't objectifying women in the way these 2 talk about (likely he is in a different way, but not the way these two talk about), they'd be happy just to talk to one.
@@Daniel-kx4sy As a 5`6" guy with virtually zero success on dating apps I agree with you 100%. It´s not that I´m a saint, but their entire discussion just didn´t feel relevant to my life at all. And I suspect many girls will feel the same when looking at Sadia, just as the OP pointed out.
True. She looks like Anissa Kate. A porn star.
I get weird vibes from her too. She seems very narcissistic like she has all the answers.
A lot of these podcast people are the same, Jordan peterson, Joe rogan, etc. They have some good and meaningful messages, but sprinkle a heap of their personal agenda and beliefs everywhere.
She does make some very good points, while some are just opinions or flat out wrong. Just take the good and leave the bad.
A few days ago I saw a pigeon trying to mate with a female. I told him “Bro, you got no chance, she wants you to be in finance” 😂😂😂
I never had a relationship that involved finance, other than maybe paying a small restaurant bill once in a time and even that we did alternate.
She sounds like she thinks she’s a boss chick. Pigeon dodged a bullet
Finance, Trust fund, 6'5, blue eyes
Finance bros are the worst to date lets be real
😅😅😅
I wanna date people who are also into self-care and watching such videos.
Same here😂
you have got a right guy then... lol
Mark needs to start a dating app dedicated to people that follow his content 😅
Same dude
@@fairyliquid6864 nice idea though
You said it many times, but you gloss over it, that men need to “get over” their perceived need for sex by being personally successful enough to choose to chill out about it. MOST MEN DO NOT EVER GET THAT MUCH SEX!
It’s funny cause Mark got his start as a mens dating coach, but he seems out of touch with the average man. When women talk about men in dating they talk about the 10-20% that all of them are dating and not the 80-90% that spend most of their lives ignored and alone. Mark does the same.
Is it that much of a burden on your life that you feel you can not function or be successful unless you've had a certain amount of sex?
Like, what's the number? Have 5 sex and then you'll be open to the advice of being personally successful enough?
Regardless the amount of sex any man gets or not, I think the purpose is not to obsess over it even if nowadays most people, women included, do not have as much sex as before.
In my opinion, the point the podcasters are trying to get across is that one should not base most of one's satisfaction as a man on sex. Rather, one must recreate the relation of masculinity to sex and, by doing so, one also changes some of the meanings that being a man carries both to the individual and other people.
@@JamesRogers233 Are suggesting that there is no link between sex, love, affection, dating (all related) an well-being? Are you really patronizing men for wanting to have a well-rounded quality life in all areas? I don't understand, don't we encourage men to open up more and talk about their feelings. Are they only allowed to have certain feelings that fit well into your worldview? Can I get your contact info so next time I have a feeling I can call you to check that it's ok first?
I guess I just feel it's nuanced... in a long term relationship maybe it won't get prioritized but there's a limit... and when you're a younger guy you can't control it as much because the urge is fing strong in some if us. But some men get in sexless relationships and then yeah if they get out they want more. When you're getting some it's like 20% important, when you're not, it grows to 90%. And changes with age
So crazy how people are considered “children” yet are of age to serve in the military ? Cmon now. When are people adults?
Beyond a basic level of attractiveness, the only thing I'm looking for is that natural spark or chemistry. As you move further into adulthood, dating and social interactions feel more like a job interview than a spontaneous interaction and that makes it so much more difficult to find out whether you have a natural connection with someone.
The reason being is both persons become more ridged in their likes and dislikes, expectations, beliefs....ext. these this come with getting older. You tend to know yourself better.
@@JaysonT1 yeah, I guess there are pros and cons to knowing yourself! 🤣
I gotta say, that was a pretty low quality and uninformed discussion. Not only is the confirmation bias in both Mark and Sadia very obvious, but they also just completely ignore a whole branch of science (evolutionary biology).
No, men dont like young women because they are insecure and got stuck at 16..what a BS.
They like younger women because we're animals and pick the mate with the highest fertility potential. And we have done so for all of human history. Thats what we're attraclted to naturally. Period.
Im kinda shocked about their uninformed opinion. There is so much good literature out there. "The Evolution of Desire" andwers a lot of questions, for example.
Agreed. They liked feeling “morally superior” in this podcast more than they like accurately describing dating dynamics. That’s because they believe it will elevate their status, which will get them connection.
True
Have the same impression about Sadia, just Mark I don't know yet, haven't finished that podcast. Sadia feels like she's very correct when she stays on track of what science says, but beyond that she's highly opinionated with an opinion closer to disney than reality.
She also has immediately shadowbanned me when I posted criticism on her channel. I wasn't insulting or anything, she just didn't like her opinions being questioned.
To a degree, you don't want to be the 50 something at the frat party. And women do reach there emotional maturity around 21, so when she's 19 when you are well above 30 this is a signal of insecurity or acting like an old creep.
@@nightmareTomek yea, she seemed like a person who would do that.
But Mark also seems to be heavily influenced by confirmation bias I feel (also in other podcasts). It's cool for him, if he's happy with his marriage. But why does it seem like he wants to sell it to everyone now, ignoring the majority of negative outcomes? Maybe it's to validify his own decisions.
I feel they hit on a lot of good points. I feel nowadays the term narcissism is thrown around a lot. As well as people being so fixated on boundaries that they somehow get a power kick of simply cutting ppl off rather than having complicated and adult discussions.
From what I see, people want to please EVERYBODY, and this is not ok...
mid 30s. Spent YEARS on apps. Ghosted after 1-3 messages over and over and over. Even the fat chicks would pass. I was even successful. Just didn't weight lift and didn't focus on my appearance to the max. Just got ghosted and treated like crap for years. Weight lifted and picked up bouldering so I got muscular. Updated my photos and 8 dates within two weeks of updating my photos.
At that point I was at the top of my technical field (software eng). Women just threw themselves at me. its all looks, money, status.
I read 100 books in those years. Built my career to the max. And most of the women that were there were garbage. Deeply insecure, either highly anxious or anxious avoidant. Never want to go back. Found a good one and got the f out.
I grew up in a good family with good values. I was always well liked. I just didn't do what other guys did and focus on my appearance. Was never a family value so I was never taught. After i got fit I had girls that i had known for years make moves. It makes me sad because i was there all along.
this is real man, thanks for writing
49:18 I find this topic so fascinating as someone dating in their late 20s right now. I think I’ve been conditioned to believe that when I’m talking to someone, if things aren’t perfect 100% of the time, it’s doomed and I should just give up and move onto the next. It’s taken me a long time to learn how to adapt to circumstances and be realistic with my expectations. It’s a really fine line to walk between respecting yourself and not compromising your values versus being realistic!
We can even see how hypersexualised and unattainable beauty standards are nowadays compared to the past and this correlates with the rise in technology. Our source of what is desirable is becoming more and more intangible everyday and straying away from the natural world. Like they were saying, dating apps disproportionately amplifies extrinsic values.
Mark, let your guests talk. Ask them questions. Quit using your guests as a platform for you to be the professor. You've lined up some amazing guests. Let them be the star in these interviews.
Right!?!
Sadia was sitting with her arms crossed the second half while she was more open in the beginning. It seemed kinda weird
thank you!
This woman's credentials are not real, she's not a psychologist. I'm a little shocked Mark even had her on
@@nostrilsflared3635 Honestly, the more she talked the more astounded I was by what little she supposedly knew about human beings in general
Glad I met my wife in 2015! I couldn't imagine a life without her and our 2 kids. Dating looks insane to me today
I believe we need to get off the dating and social media apps and back into personal interactions.
2024 is a lot worse than what the dating market was in 2015, but it was still pretty bad in 2015, you got pretty lucky
I felt sorry for Drew on this one. I winced in the shared pain, which I could see on Drews face, of being mocked for being single, which is something that will lose you friendships with those people. Sadie seemed illegitimate and not that bright if I'm honest
This one was a real shame IMO
Yeah. Unwinnable spot for him.
Just look who speaks 95% of the time. Mark and Sadia. Poor Drew was put in a corner and talked maybe 5% of the time.
The setting havily favorites Mark and Sadia. They have the comfort to speak from a "teacher's" point of view - confidently giving advices away. While Drew, no matter if he likes it or not, has to speak from a "student's" point of view - constatly having to expose his weaknes and inferiority.
Not sure if it is helpful for him.
Sadia mocks guys for having younger escorts but at least they can feel like men. How is Drew's position any better here? The poor guy has to listen to some advices like he was a 15 years old child or something. How can he feel like a man in such setting?
This is also something that Mark does NOT seem to get. He is more mature partialy BECAUSE he was sleeping with many girls in his 20s.
He even commented at the end that they didn't get anywhere with him lol
Something I see with many married people: They look down on single guys and have a lot "advice" which usually is completely useless. They have a lot of neat explanations why you are single: You are too insecure, lazy, selfish, etc. Honestly I am kind of sick of it.
It´s difficult enough to be deprived of companionship for that many years. I don´t need to be insulted for it on top of that.
@@rakodoza7601 Also, how many guys are really sleeping with escorts? You can tell from her behavior, which kind of men she usually interacts with.
@@hermann5347 yeah, like you said - no compassion. What is probably running through Drew's head there is: "I know it goddamnit, I'm trying ok!".
These advices despite being more or less perfectly fine logically-wise, on an emotional level, feel like someone was just pointing at things and expecting immediate results no matter what. Magically.
And then Drew, after this session, will go visit his parents and listen to the exact same advices, feeling like a child yet again. 🙃
That's why if I were the one giving advices to Drew I would actually say "do the opposite Sadia said and get an escort". It's not a plan "A", but at least a solid plan "B". And certainly better than plan "C" which is being educated all day.
Another good advice would be - hang out with other singles so at least you can feel equal.
I've dated online for too long. I guess it is time to just delete them all.
You look too old for being in online dating anymore
I loved this conversation, just felt weird when y'all started talking about older men dating younger women because my husband is 18 years older than me. Even after 25 years of marriage people still look at us like we shouldn't have done that. I don't think the stereotyping is all that interesting.
Just because a man has money, that doesn't make him unlovable. Just because a woman is young, that doesn't make her inexperienced and stupid. People live in all kinds of circumstances.
The theme of the podcast seemed to be that we should look at people for who they are and not judge them superficially. Except when it comes to age?
Well if I had been dating someone my own age in my early 20s it wouldn't have increased my IQ or GPA, and dating someone older didn't decrease it either.
Sorry for adding a king post on your comment, but I agree with you. I usually like Sadia’s advice but think she was wrong on this issue because she had a problem with older men and younger women, yet didn’t have the same problem with older wealthy women and their pursuit of toy boys for pleasure and to show off to other women.
She was also pretty one-sided in her view of older men being the ones taking advantage of younger women. As an older guy, I’ve lost count of the number of younger women (even 19 years old) who express an interest in me as an older man. They are pursuing what they want and are pretty aggressive at it re more mature of buys their age, so crave maturity. They’re also bored of the Beta males their age that society has helped create. When entry see anyone Alpha, they’re interested, even if not for the long term.
I’ve never dated that young, but when I speak with younger women, there’s always a few years of maturity you can add to their age, that boys her age can’t match. So a 19 year old can be as emotionally mature as a a 25-29 year old, IMO.
@@RandomUser25122 Thank you and I agree. Yes there are logical reasons young women like older men. The relationship may have its challenges specific to that situation but if they are both well-adjusted and thriving, who's to complain?
My daughter is now 21 and she is attracted to much older men -- some of her coworkers. She's attractive herself. I am so grateful that for the most part these guys are not taking advantage of the situation but usually just enjoy her company and keep it at a friendship level.
I think men are just as wary of getting involved with a girl who's immature as women are wary of getting involved with a man who's exploitative.
@@RandomUser25122"Alpha"?.... Jesus Christ, get over yourself. A real "Alpha" doesn't need to advertise.
I agree completely, as an older man who finds young women attractive. Why shame the age difference? No good reason. Mark thinks that an older man dates a young hot girl to show off his friends that "I am the cool guy now". That's nonsense. Both Sadia and Mark are off on 60% of the points and correct on 40%.
@@rayrwyr My husband was somewhat embarrassed about the age difference. It was important to him that I was well-spoken and levelheaded, then his family could understand there was a deeper bond.
I met my husband on a dating app. I couldn't see his picture, and in hindsight that's the best thing that happened to me. I would never have wanted to meet him by his photograph, but I really liked his words, so when we met irl, I liked him already. He loves me for who I am (first person ever!!) and neither one of us has the awful pressure of trying to live up to the image our partner was attracted to online!
I had a similar experience where I met someone online before seeing his face and when we eventually did meet iin person I was just...disappointed. I tried for about 2 years to get over how little physical attraction (and even repulsion) I felt towards him because I felt like we were compatible and I liked his personality. People often say you grow into attraction and I never really did. It felt like a personal failing and I got angry at myself so many times cause I couldn't just make myself attracted to him. Eventually I had to give up for my own sanity. We're still friends and hang out every so often.
@@pridefall3304 -- are you pure platonic friends now?
@@pridefall3304 He is a clown for being friends with someone who is repulsed by him, and you are fake for hiding it from him, yet pretending you like him. This is why men should never be friends with women: women lie, are fake yet use male friends that are attracted to them, as free slaves. Men please, dont accept friendship from any woman you are sexually attracted to.
The concept of settling is crazy because it suggests that it’s the end of something- where really you’re finding a partner to do one of the most important things you will do with your life for the rest of your life.. you’re finding a team mate who wants to live that life- looks, height and weight don’t factor much when you put it in context
@9:38 So true. The most authentic crushes I had were in people I wasn’t initially attracted to, and even more than that, people I was initially repelled by, but they grew on me.
I've been bad about craving "chemistry" first and not trusting the attraction stage, skipping over it. Therefore I just never date cause I crave that secure connection from the get-go.
I wish I could figure out how to fix this situation of mine. It puts me in a lot of bad cycles.
@@thecasualreviewer2148 same
Same. I am also a common sense Capricorn, btw. So, there was once this shy and mysterious Virgo guy.....LOL
Yeah you're gonna cheat on him for sure. Give it a couple of years when you sound more miserable
@@ghosthusler Projecting much? lol Tired of hustling ghosts because you can't get with a real person?
I've heard Mark say several times in the past that age doesn't have to be an issue and don't live your life by other's standards. Now he's kissing the ass of this woman and going back on that
News! Older men and younger women were the norm for hundreds/thousands of years before society.
You are right. Mark is doing age difference shaming. Fu*k that.
It also started when women didn't have rights and were considered property. Child brides were a thing back in that time. I would like to think we have grown since that time.
@@lahicks9773Why do you care what 2 other adults are doing with their lives? Frankly, it's none of your concern. If it is working for those two people, leave them alone. So sorry the rest of the world doesn't live up to your standards.
@@themacocko6311 It's not just 2 people, they're spreading their messages through the media and influencing others. If they spread misinformation, it becomes a problem.
By the way, when I was in school, girls were saying that they want exclusively older guys. That's never being shamed, only that men want younger girls.
This episode seriously should’ve been 4 hours long. 2 of the absolute best dating coaches on the market right now. As soon as I saw Mark Manson and Sadia Khan I knew I wasn’t gonna be disappointed.
Dating in in itself is a double-edged sword. That's why arranged marriages statistically work out better in the long run. Each failed dating attempt is a direct blow to ones mental health.
they work better statistically in that if arranged marriage is all you know, it makes no sense to go for a divorce. How fulfilled / happy people are in an arranged marriage, that's going to be a much tougher thing to prove.
So Sadia has gone on Andrew Tate’s podcast, chummed up with him, and seems to think he’s a “great guy” - I see her everywhere, but I refuse to listen to a woman who publicly supports a predator. I’m not even talking about any crimes he’s been accused of. He’s innocent until proven guilty. I’m talking about his standard disrespectful harmful rhetoric, and the grift he plays on gullible men, who then use his toxic nonsense to interact with women.
Seems like an oxymoron to suggest opposite sex friendships, and then also say “get to know a person’s personality first, and the attraction can grow from that” (paraphrasing)
But if you believe that attraction can grow organically between man and woman and that creates the best relationships, then why would i want my significant other having friends of the opposite sex? Which is only Increasing the chance for feelings to grow
Dating has never been the same since cell phones came into the picture.
I say since the inception of the internet...Lol.
Agree
Yessss
@@dennydude3737 This. ^ Although smart phones put that internet in the palm of everyone's hand.
They really put Drew in a losing spot there.
Two "happily married" and one "happily single". HAHA 😂 Yea... we all know what "happily single" in this context means.
Being in the middle of a conversation about how modern dating sucks when you know that all these advices are defacto for you because obviously Mark and Sadia are not saying them to themselves. So the underlaying setting is: two teachers, one student.
It's easier for Mark obviously. Pick your battles Drew!
Friendships between men and women almost always have at least one situation where, one party or both, at one point or another, has thought about the other in a sexual way. From a commitment and trust perspective, this makes relationships with the opposite sex challenging for me.
exactly. i think she means acquaintance . sadia doesnt drink alcohol due to her faith so shes not mixing with men at clubs
Pure BS.
They are saying physical attractiveness is not important and that is complete BS. Not saying it should be the most important (surely not) but it absolutely is part of the mix.
Very true.
Physical attractiveness is super important. Sorry but for men it is the fundamental thing that will get them interested in someone.
Yes, there are exceptions but tell me how often have you heard "oh that girl is so super interesting, she travels a lot like me and is super passionate about XYZ"?
My experience is that sadly, most women are lacking anything that would make them stand out in personality. It's not that they can't, it's simply they are often not incentivized to stand out like men have to. It was always for men to be that super passionate person that would grab a girls heart etc..
As a result, a lot of women can only rely on looks and it is a depressing thing for everyone.
BTW, I myself had to break up with a really nice girl because I thought I could overlook physical attractiveness since we communicated quite well.
Turned out I just couldn't. It made her feel miserable and unwanted, despite my best attempts at making her happy through other means (which ironically only made things worse since she couldn't "repay" me and it made her feel inadequate). I could live out a sexless life (as a super late bloomer you simply learn to deal with it) but for her it was a pain that I couldn't handle to see. She deserved better.
It was a valuable lesson - if you can't honestly say that your woman is beautiful in your eyes, it is SHE that will be unhappy in the relationship, not you.
@@DrAhzek what a honest answer, and yes u r right she deserves better. Made a similar mistake…
Wow, that sounds awful. So sorry for you. So what was it about her that you didn’t find attractive? Apart from her being a nice person?
married 20 years now, it's great. I live with my favorite person and we support and care for each other. we hang out, and we do things apart, we like each other as well as love each other.
After watching the entire video objectively, I realized they didn't provide a single profound insight. Entire video gishgalloping.
This is just sad.
People are giving up on relationship and dating because they want the easy way. People are too used to convenience and have lost the ability not only to think critically but to overcome hardship.
Nah, it's the ease of having choices and feeling that people are disposable or something.
@@Photik That too
Where do i apply for Drew? 😂
I'm not dating, but I'd appreciate knowing a man like Drew with the wisdom and restraint to stay offline like he does. Respect 💪✨️
I stopped using dating apps in 2021 because they are so fake and a waste of time. Now I just like Drew to meet new people through friends and via travel and participating in sports and other social events. Life is getting much better.
I've heard that Sadia doesn't exactly have valid credentials to be a dating and relationship coach. While I'm not exactly sure what those credentials would be, there's a fair amount of speculation on the Internet that she's a fraud. Has anyone heard anything similar?
yeah from haters she worked as a psychologist in my sons school and we met her many times for his progress
I feel like the guest in this episode stated some facts that are common sense; she also learned a lot from Mark about men by asking questions about his previous job as a dating coach, which he stopped doing almost a decade ago. Kind of like when Steven Rogers (iykyk) woke up after being asleep for 70 years and tried to catch up to the rest of the world”
I understood that reference.
Great video! I was a bit disappointed when Mark's response to the question of sex in a long term meaningful relationship was that you just need to deprioritize it... Why can't sex be amazing in a long term... In fact why isn't is even more amazing because it's an expression of real intimacy?
1:00:13 Since her question focused on advising men whose main worry is losing sexual interest while focusing only on one partner aka being in a monogamous relationship, Mark said deprioritize sex because the guy in that relationship is way too focused on sex must stay good forever with his partner which creates stress fueled by fear and disappointment if his fear becomes reality. Nothing is guaranteed to stay the same way forever, matter of fact everything is subject to change (Buddhism). In this case not only her hormones, desires, priorities and body, but the guy’s hormones, desires, priorities and body too. Shift or change doesn’t always mean that it’s a negative thing.
Ok... So are you saying deprioritize sex doesn't necessarily mean resign yourself to a worse sex life... But it means don't let it be the only thing that matters in a relationship?
That would make sense
But even in the way it's gets spoken about generally and the context of this podcast it feels like there is underlying assumption that sex gets worse in long term relationships and my naive (and perhaps wrong) belief is it should get better
@@bubbastylin 1) Yes to your first question. 2) It doesn’t necessarily mean that sex will get worse later on. That is a possibility that we can’t rule out. I wouldn’t say it gets worse. Maybe less frequent. Generally as people age, their sexual desire decline, or when they have kids, priorities and energy levels shift. But I recommend you to watch this segment from the movie The Female Brain based on a book written by a neuropsychiatrist. I hope this will answer your question. Watch the link below from 3:46-4:08
ruclips.net/video/x_kPtYHhHsc/видео.htmlsi=_uahXW92-ZC8Z7VT
Advice to men who are in a committed long term relationship and having low s3x:
F*ck deprioritization of s3x! Your partner has a low s3x drive *for you*. She lost her interest in s3x with *you*. But she has not lost it in general. This happens to women who feel too comfortable, secure, safe, and certain in a committed relationship. She knows you are not going anywhere. Note that women are s3xually maximally aroused when there is uncertainty, challenge, anxiety and fear. She must fear that she may lose you to her competition (a potentially younger hotter woman). Her fear of losing you, challenge to win you, anxiety of failing to keep you are what shoots up her s3x drive for you to the sky. Without those elements, she feels no s3x drive. This is the exact reason why all married women lose all interest in s3x with their nice guy dedicated devoted committed husbands. In fact these married women feel so bored that they cheat on their husbands with random azzhole dudes because those random dudes do not give a rat's azz about her.
I ABSOLUTELY love ❤️ how intelligent, soft, feminine, well spoken, and beautiful Sadia Khan is. Where can you find more women like this?
I've been waiting for a dating episode, I needed this!!
Quite a few generalizations being thrown around in this conversation. Additionally, you can’t logic attraction - it is attraction not deductive reasoning.
So I am 38, never had any real good relationships. Gave up on the whole thing 4 years, just accepted and laid back and build myself a calm nice life. Watching this was an eyeopener, not like i want to date again, but that I should maybe be happy for what I have and when meeting people try to be more present. Thanks all three..
Please refer to Dr Ramani Durvasela regarding understanding Narcissism because I think you are not accurate with your understanding of this bahaviour and spectrum of it.
Seriously. The comment about older men dating younger women and thus driving them into narcissism was so completely misguided. That's not how it works.
@9:10 When I dated my current girlfriend 3 years ago, I was talking to 2 women on Tinder. One that has sexy photos and my girlfriend that has non-sexy photos. At first I immediately wanted to date the other one, of course because of the sexy photos. In the end that person ghosted me and I met my girlfriend. She was technically my "second choice", but DAMN that was the best thing that has happenened to me. She is kind, empathetic, humble, an amazing mother and she is beyond everything I ever dreamed of for a partner. She is definitely the love of my life and now it feels so absurd to think that she was my "second choice" just because of the photos.
You don't deserve her
Nice!!
@@goddessvibes08 I know. But i'm 100% willing to spend all my life doing my best to deserve her :)
@@crayonnnnnnn didn't expect the ownership 👍 take care
If you pedestalize her too much, she will leave you.
What I hate about watching these kind of videos is that they are so insightful yet I fail to take action on those insights. I'm limiting self help content to let the lessons I Iearn sink in but it ultimately hasn't brought any meaningful change to my daily life.
@deniel25: It's not really your fault. You're listening to three people whose perspectives are shaped by their privileged life situations, which are different from yours.
We can't simply adopt their ways of thinking and acting just by listening to them. Your actions are influenced by your own experiences and neurobiology, which differ from theirs. It's never a fair comparison. It's good to listen and take what you can from them, but don't guilt yourself. You're here, watching, and trying to better yourself. That's something.
Delete RUclips, delete your socials, focus on 3 things you want to accomplish, get chat gpt to make you a schedule based on those 3 things and work on them. Spend sometime creating, if you consume, consume learning. I deleted social media but got stuck on breadtube and self help content. At the end of the day Is entertainment, no matter what it is. The people around you, your neighborhood is way more valuable than these 3 people sitting and talking about millions of people’s consciousness and beliefs. Live in your own timeline ❤
@@mindmayhem1982 True, I just wish I could see more progress, it's been so long on this "working and improving yourself" thing.
This video has 50% good advice mixed with 50% bad advice. So be careful.
@@deniel25 Somehow, I don't think there is an end. I don't mean that to sound depressing, for me it is actually quite freeing. I love the idea that we have the rest of our lives to work at all of this.1% each day - persistence, consistency, resilience - will add up. You'd be surprised where small steps can take you. Get organised, be realistic. You might fail some days and that's okay. Just keep going, try again tomorrow. Give yourself some acknowledgement - it takes a lot to be in the business of improving yourself. Many people don't bother and are content to blame others for their situation. I also agree with the other commenter here, you can listen all you want to the help gurus, but at some point you need to DO something differently to see a difference. Advice alone wont cut it. Positive consistent action will.
Marriage is parallel with the current state of an economic system.
Divorce is a business.
Great to have two of my favorite podcasters in one setting. I have lots of respect for both. Always informative, relevant and entertaining.
As a psychologist i have heard her speak. Not a fan. Really where was she trained and why is she only on you tube. No clinical work?
OkCupid matches folks based on personality quizzes and compatibility. However I never found that it was any good because I didn't find any of the suggested matches attractive. It seems like you guys are suggesting that attraction ought to be irrelevant? That folks ought to choose partners based on personality, and ignoring whether or not you find them attractive?
OKcupid questions are rather irrelevant (to me), tho. Maybe I missed out, once it was good. Today it's a sh*tshow.
A great honest conversation, with people that have high emotional intelligence and took the time to delve deep into their past experiences and learn from them. It's a breath of fresh air hearing merried people talk about the current dating scene, people who actually achieved the ultimate goal of dating. When you think about it, it's actually not in your best interest to listen to advice about dating from folks who are still stuck in the dating loop, similarly, you wouldn't take advice on how to cook a great meal from someone who's still learning how to cook, you would go to the person who's been cooking for a long time and knows how to create a proper meal. I enjoyed it very much and learned alot, thank you!
Its funny how they say "people" but if you look up all of the dating app studies its crystal clear which gender is more superficial and has the unrealistic expectations
This issue exists because most people value everything external to themselves. Root of it all being insecurity. Basing worth on external is a constant battle because society is always changing. We need to be valuing and honoring ourselves as that is where it all starts
@48:40 (onward). This is especially on point... few are willing to accept anything less than perfection from the very start, being unwilling to compromise or adapt, while also not allowing any room for future improvement. We're all a work in progress and it's not settling to meet someone in the middle... if you really like (or love) someone, you'll be willing to fight to keep each other. Having empathy, accepting each other, and at times changing for the better and compromising.. none of these things has to be negative 🥺
Exactly!!
Who's "we"...?
What an unlikely combo for a conversation but really great!
I learned so much from this podcast it's nuts. Wonderful job all of you!
12:18 Mark’s suggestion for a new dating app is called Bantr in the show Ted Lasso
Can't believe this combination happened !
Absolutely hit the nail on the head with these. Everyone who primarily dates online needs to see this!
It is always great to see and hear mark, there is this coolness in him that makes me calm to listen to.
Hm, quality of the podcast seems to be trending down 🤔
Ah I absolutely love when my favorite internet people get together and talk 🎉❤
True❤
The fact that you have favorite internet people is concerning.
@@themacocko6311 Are you salty that you are not one of her favorite internet people
@@cytroydLike I would be on the internet. 99% are talentless attention seeking smucks.
25:05 THANK YOU. It's what I call the difference between "hot" and "sexy". A "hot" woman is someone who physically LOOKS attractive, but that doesn't mean you wanna smash and even the thought of making out with her feels weird. A "sexy" woman may not be physically attractive, she might even be quite a bit over weight, but there's just something about her that drives you crazy with lust
I realized this YEARS ago and I've literally never heard anyone else even mention it. No friends or family, not even other "dating coaches" or "experts" have ever brought this up and I was beginning to think I was the only one who noticed it. Thank you for articulating this so perfectly.
This conversation should be taken on a college tour. These are the conversations Millennials & Gen Z should be having with each other instead of gawking about some gaslight bullshit from an "Influencer" who pays too much money for ads.
Hey Mark I'm a big fan of your work. I do feel like you all are being a bit ageist when addressing 19-23 year old women. You make it seem as if they all are young, dumb and can't make calibrated and calculated decisions for themselves. Please be aware that ageism goes both ways and that when you get older people might judge you in the same fashion even though you are more than mentally capable. I'm sure you've encountered your fair share of women who are 30+ years old that can't carry a good convo and vice versa there are younger women who can bring a unique and different perspective to that same convo...just food for thought. I love the book Models and I read it multiple times as well as listen to the audio book quite often. Keep up the good work.
Agree 100%! The whole topic about younger women and older men was completely driven by her insecurities and I am extremely disappointed in how Mark handled it. He pandered to her and kissed her feet.
Mark has addressed younger women and older men before and the outcome was a complete 180 to this. I'm a huge Mark Manson "fan" but my thoughts towards him have taken some damage from this video.
I don't know how this woman keeps tricking people into buying her fraudulent claim that she's a psychologist
Always love your choices of topics and how enlightening you guys are and also your guests. Thanks again for another great interview.
I don't know how I missed this interview you did with Sadia. This is just as enjoyable as abigail's. Thanks for putting this together and sharing with us.
Love this podcast for the most part, but this was a miss for me. Sadia made many generalizations and stated them too matter of factly. I was waiting and waiting for gems, but her points sounded uninformed and a bit messy. I appreciated Mark sharing his journey through maturation. Drew was great, as always!
29:00 'I discovered there's this thing called a glory hole just 2 weeks ago!'
Sure Sadia, sure
Lol! IKR? I trust her as fall as I can throw her.
Even if it's true, it just shows how clueless she is. But it's probably not so she's also lying. Why would anyone take advice from her? And the ageism at minute 34 ish... Ugh. Train wreck of a video.
I mean I didn't know what 'it' was until today (personally I had to Google it during the podcast if I'm being honest). Now I'm pretty sure I might have seen such "content" pop up on sites sometimes but, since I'm not really into it I had no intention to dig deeper and thus had no idea that it's called a "Glory hole" lmao.
@@tokotamsSame and I did not wanna know that so i didn't google (+ I'm lazy plus i multi-task) so I'll hopefully forget about it as i always do about the things that aren't repeatedly talked about in my life because i have a lot more things to worry & talk about than remembering definitions of things like these & there are too many nonsensical things online I'd rather not know the meaning of.
-And presumptions that everyone "must" know what XYZ means & if they don't they're either stupid/pretending not to know/lying is the most annoying thing I see socially because if the truth is boring no one cares & they WILL prefer controversial lies because those are spicy. "eg. Gave highschoolers a random name to tease me with" and no one questioned it was a lie, and whenever I deny relationship they ask 10 different questions wondering why.
- I know married people that don't know any thing except the usual because they have personal hardships & growth kids and more to work on than worry about what's that thing popular online (pretty sure these things don't exist everywhere either).
- So I feel like people are in a bubble, and I'd rather be in a better bubble "be shocked by how people don't care about sustainability than being shocked by definitions of things people don't know"😅
@@tokotamsSame and I didn't wanna know so i didn't google (+ I'm lazy plus i multi-task) hopefully I'll forget about it as i always do about the things that aren't repeatedly talked about in my life because i have a lot more things to worry & talk about than remembering definitions of things like these.
🔹And presumptions that everyone "must" know what XYZ means & if they don't they're either stupid/pretending not to know just because large part in certain community knows it is the most annoying thing I see socially. because if the truth is boring no one cares & they WILL prefer controversial lies because those are spicy. "eg. Gave highschoolers a random name to tease me with" and no one questioned it was a lie, and whenever I deny relationship they ask 10 different questions wondering why.
- I know married people that don't know any thing except the usual because they have personal hardships & growth kids and more to work on than worry about what's that thing popular online (pretty sure these things don't exist everywhere either).
🔹So I feel like people are in a bubble, and I'd rather be in a better bubble "be shocked by how people don't care about sustainability than being shocked by definitions of things people don't know"😅
Short description of the episode: One married male panders to and agrees with every opinion of a clueless married female. They rant for an hour about how fu**ed dating and men's psyches are. All the while another single man sits in the corner quietly staring at them.
In short, disappointing! 🥲
God how I hate podcasts.
I haven't watch this video yet. I just read a lot of the comments and came up with my own answer. After 2 marriages, currently dating an awsome guy. Dating is like gambling you win, you loose and the win big. You gotta be careful when you find someone who truly matters. Take the jackpot and run out. Don't play no more!
And no l am not a gambler. But in the game of love l had taken my chances. ❤
This was a great conversation. Thank you!
Frankly quite dissapointed with the fact that you've brought her on without some due diligence first Mark, given that her qualifications are suspect (the certificates look forged), and there's evidence of her harrassing other people in this space
how can she work in instututions in london if she had fake qualifcations stop lying to yourself you fool
She’s explained that on a recent podcast. Stop being a jealous freak
Unrealistic high expectations in my partner was the reason our otherwise healthy relationship fell apart. It's unfortunate. Reminds me of an iceberg hitting the titanic.
Don’t have female friends that DONT CONTRIBUTE to the friendship.
Basically if you wouldn’t be friends with that person, if they were male, don’t be friends with that person if they’re female. I think this advice comes from men becoming friends with women thinking that they could get enough points and get laid.
What works for me is being in a loving and trusting relationship and both of us following two rules, 1) if you mess up, fess up; and 2) never go to bed angry, which means apply rule 1 as soon as possible so your partner doesn’t go to bed that night pissed off and building resentment against you.
Legalize sex work. That way when a man is dating you know he is actually there for connection and meaning. Young men will always prioritize sex over connection. But this solution scares the wits out of women because they know then they will have to up their game and provide men something other than sex Women intuitively understand this. That is why women oppose sex work. Of course they couch their opposition in a lot of virtue signaling fluff.
This was a solid episode and a good conversation; however, the quality of guests you’ve had on lately Mark had massively dropped off. For the 3rd time in the last five episodes, I kinda felt like this was a waste of time. Fortunately I’ve been gifted with years of great content from you, so that a month of average shows feels terrible, but please Mark, you can do better!
Really loved the content!, I see some of the key take away are like emotional maturity, self-stream and a good level of self-awareness.
Very cool conversation. Thank you
Who said married people are happy? Married people are more likely to have mental illness according to M Scott Peck who studied thousands of mental health patients and found that marriage creates most mental problems.
M. Scott Peck is overly religious and puritan and only approves of certain types of people and highlights statistics that support his worldview
Any research by Scott Peck is going to be about 50 years out of date. The literature on marriage and long term relationships is robust.
@@IAmMarkMansonWhere is your research?
36:55
Is not either/or... you can do both... these dualities where they present only two options is pathetic and they do it all throughout the video. As if in anything there are only two options!!
These people cannot accept men want SEX but not the woman and a relationship, and thus they wanna make it shameful.
She literally gave the advice that women should take advantage of men and take their money. Is this really the kind of person we want to listen to?
What there are most of in this world are people who want to “set rules” for the lives of others without taking into account that human beings are individual, unique and that each one is different. We are not ants or bees to live our lives following pre-established standards.
People need therapy before hitting the dating sites.
Why
Hey Drew!! Are applications still open? 😁Great content! These are the type of conversations I have had with my friends.
If anything, my applications are open 😉