Wolfenstein II: The New Colossus (Spoilers)
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- Опубликовано: 9 сен 2024
- This episode somehow got away from me and became one of the longest I've ever done. Yikes!
Wolfenstein II: The New Colossus is a new videogame about shooting Nazis. It's also got some other stuff on it's mind. Also it's got a cat's head on the body of a monkey, so that's cool.
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"You can always trust America to do the right thing. After they have exhausted all alternatives."
~ Winston Churcill
Winston Churchill also supported the genocide that the british empire committed against the Irish and in India. He wasn't a good person.
He also loved melting civilians with the living hell of white phosphorus, but he was still right about America.
The weird thing about Churchill is that the bad shit stops looking so bad once you really try to source everything. A lot of the quotes are cut down.
The one that I can source from memory was when he stated that he supported the use of gas against rioting Indians. The gas he wanted to use was tear gas.
@@dashiellgillingham4579 he commited genocide in India
@@dashiellgillingham4579 I agree some of his "racist" comments were cut out of the context. But when you starts researching his policies rather than just quotes, Churchill was heavily romanticized because of WW2 and he was quite shite
To be slightly irreverent.. behavioral whiplash at times of extreme personal distress is based on reality. Such as gallows humor.
Intensely contemplating your own suffering and the despair of those around you one moment and then having a grand laugh about the fact that the executioner has a case of diarrhea, the next.
So a tonal inconsistency isn't entirely inconsistent.
But only in the sense where The New Order and The Old Blood worked. The New Colossus, ugh, upped it way too much to suddenly feel like a narmy 70s comedy at most.
There's a difference though between _people_ behaving like that and the _direction_ of a movie/game/whatever doing that. It's not a character interrupting an earnest scene with toilet jokes; it's the game itself.
it is completely impossible to separate the bombing of japan from grace's account. her descriptions are incredibly reminiscent of the book hiroshima, a non-fiction account of five survivors of the bombing. hearing that kind of made me sick.
epc productions yeah i got that vibe too when i first watched that scene.
listen man. i haven't played the game. i'm just saying that her descriptions are clearly written by someone who has read about the effects of a nuclear bomb.
"Mr. Tanimoto found about twenty men and women on the sandspit. He
drove the boat onto the bank and urged them to get aboard. They did
not move and he realized that they were too weak to lift themselves. He
reached down and took a woman by the hands, but her skin slipped off in
huge, glove-like pieces. He was so sickened by this that he had to sit down
for a moment. Then he got out into the water and, though a small man,
lifted several of the men and women, who were naked, into his boat, Their
backs and breasts were clammy, and he remembered uneasily what the
great burns he had seen during the day had been like: yellow at first, then
red and swollen, with the skin sloughed off, and finally, in the evening,
suppurated and smelly, With the tide risen, his bamboo pole was now too
short and he had to paddle most of the way across with it. On the other
side, at a higher spit, he lifted the slimy living bodies out and carried them
up the dope away from the tide. He had to keep consciously repeating to
himself, “These are human beings.” It took him three trips to get them all
across the river. When he had finished, he decided he had to have a rest,
and he went back to the park."
That's from Hiroshima, by John Hersey, a.k.a the book I described in the first comment.
I think the dorky humour works quite well for me because it feels extremely human, and all the sad human parts to me wouldn't be so effective if there weren't also moments of awkward human joy from the characters. It's juxtaposition that doubles as a means of endearing me to the characters so I feel more when the contemplating fatherhood abuse parts.
But that doesn't mean that the contrast isn't too stark in some cases, which it often is. Timing is key with humor, I didn't feel it here.
Comedy is also pretty subjective though. One man's poop joke is another man's cringe.
I'd like to point out how this game was inspired by Fallout 4, also published by Bethesda, which has a similar juxtaposition whiplash from it's humor and just how extremely dark it is. Heck, sometimes W:TNC looks just like Fallout, like in NYC and New Orleans.
I finished the video and came to the comments to write exactly this. Even the poop joke paying off in the middle of a tense scene goes to show (not only the humanity) but that Spesh is a character doing his own thing; all the characters are not woven into this tight story throughline, they all have their own motivations and things to do all the time. While Anya and BJ are having an argument, Spesh is doing what he does best - taking a massive dump, appreciating the fact he hasn't had a working toilet in years, much like the feeling of having a shower after going camping remotely for a week! That's human, and I feel it worked perfectly.
I can also see where people who dislike poop jokes are coming from, but if you have issues with the tonal jumps like that across the game as a whole, I kinda feel like you're missing the point?
Oh, but I totally agree with ES's complaints about the gameplay. Though I can definitely manage to find my own enjoyment out of it all. It's not bad, it's just not really great.
It's the same reason the relationship in Deadpool is one of my favorite portrayals of romance in film.
Loved this game's writing! And as a German I appreciate all the references and how they handled the language. The use of German - written or spoken - is flawless. People sound like actual native speakers, not like Americans talking German. I played the international version.
Most actors who played the german characters are actual germans, which is amazing.
>a man who fights fascism, but only through unrelenting violence
What else can you do to fight fascism?
Exactly, people who say dumb shit like "love wins" forget the literal millions of gallons of blood spilt (mostly by communists) that we had to spill to stop them the first time
You are correct but it's still interesting that Fascism glorifies violence as the primary method of problem-solving and the only way to stop it is violence
With nonviolence, if possible. But with violence if necessary.
Re the humour: I found it provided much needed levity. With the rest of the game being either intense (if pulpy) action and sincere character drama, it might have been too self serious without it. I liked the characters in the story more because of the jokes, because of the ways they bounce off each other; it presents another angle for empathising with the characters than simply through their trauma. I think I would have felt fatigued if not for the humour.
To me, the humor in "The New Order" wasn't the act of writers scared of the darkness of their own story, it was the act of writers saying, "Despite the darkness that surrounds us, despite the horror of what we've made, there's always a silver lining." It's what separates great tragedies from merely sad stories. For example, "The Last of Us" is a harrowing, dark, often depressing tale of the beautiful relationship between a father and a daughter. There's hope amidst the darkness, it cracks jokes, it makes time for Joel and Ellie to breathe. "The New Order" does the same thing.
If these games didn't let players breathe and laugh, then by the end of it, we would be tone deaf to the heartbreaking moments between characters and the horrors we witness the Nazis commit. The scene where Frau Engel tosses a baby away wouldn't hit as hard also didn't have BJ busting out of the concentration camp on a mech shooting every moving thing he sees. In a fucking mech. He steals a mech in a concentration camp. It's ridiculous, over-the-top bullshit, but the important part is that the game knows it.
Is it perfect? No. But I appreciate the fact that the writers didn't descend into, "Look how horrifying and sad and bad things are! Isn't this great?" Instead, MachineGames poke fun at action-shooter conventions, have characters crack jokes as they bomb a train, and have characters tease each other. I remember one of the lines BJ's internal monologue says before his death is, "Stupid way to die." It's a blink-and-you'll-miss-it fourth wall break where BJ chides the player for killing him delivered in an action hero gruff voice that just kinda makes you smile at the cuteness of it.
I think a lot of writers and critics tend to forget that tone is as much a product of the work as it is a tool to be used. Good writers have good control over tone. Great writers make that manipulation seem organic. And one of the best quotes I've ever read about tone is this: "The mark of any good drama is in how well it makes you laugh." Or, as Joss Whedon puts it: "Make it dark, make it grim, make it tough. But then, for the love of God, tell a joke."
And there's the main difference between New Order and Colossus. New Order just managed to pull it off, and it worked well as a dark absurdist nightmare comedy. Because absolutely you need contrast in tone - but not all at the same time on top of each other. Put contrasting colors next to each other and they seem more vibrant, put them so close together that they blend and it's just awful.
I guess I should have added in that I haven't actually played through "The New Colossus" yet (it's on my Christmas list and I definitely plan on playing through it, though), so I can't really talk about how well the game handles its tone. If anything from what I've seen and heard, the writers leaned hard into the absurdist/surrealist qualities that made the first game such a masterclass in tone, perhaps to a fault. But comedy is also pretty subjective and your mileage will very on where it stops being funny and starts becoming annoying. But, hey, no work of art is perfect and "The New Colossus" is certainly no exception.
Alden Raymond Even if you won't find it funny, the jokes do seem to be character-driven and the mixture of the two tones do show that this is a real breathing world of characters with their own interests, motivations, and agendas. Hitscan enemies are BS, though. At least Doom 4 knew this.
I'm only halfway through the game but I don't remember The New Order being particularly humorous at all. Occasionally people say funny things but only when it's appropriate and in-character. There were no bathos moments where it felt like they were using humour as a shield against sincerity (if you're unfamiliar with the term, basically 13:50).
Wolfenstein is absolutely brilliant B-movie pulp schlock for better and for worse and I would have it no other way. And yeah sure it doesn’t handle it’s themes perfectly and sometimes has wild tone issues, but it sure is fun and it says something because it tries to say something, unlike a hell of a lot of other modern FPS games, which try to say nothing, like COD, which wind up kinda just being military propaganda as a result of having trying so hard to have no point
I actually found the clash between the serious and over-the-top tonal elements in New Order to be one of the reasons I came to appreciate it. A good absurd comedy needs a tension between absurd elements and a straight man who takes them perfectly seriously and pushes the action forward, and the game takes that to an extreme. BJ will be hacking Nazis to pieces on a moon base while reminiscing on his childhood, creating this extreme tension between the seriousness of the horrors of Nazism and BJ's internal monologue, and the ridiculousness of the alternate history and over-the-top violence.
Initially, I wasn't too keen on it either, but once I started to consider that it was so finely tuned that it almost had to be intentional, I started to appreciate how well it executes that aspect. I think that, despite its serious elements, it's a game best viewed as a black comedy. It's very difficult to view it through that lens due to the seriousness of the subject matter, but I found pushing past that replaced that feeling of weirdness with one of a comedy that makes a lot of jokes that you feel uncomfortable laughing at, but is more engaging for it.
I think the best example of it (and where it really hit home for me) was the scene where BJ escapes the moonbase from the first game. If nobody was talking, it would be a pretty cool, over the top action romp, but the fact that BJ constantly narrates events with this self-serious introspection as time slows down while he's stabbing a pilot to death just elevates that absurdity to the point where I couldn't help but laugh at how ridiculous everything was. I think this isn't just a juxtaposition that happens to be there and be problematic, I think it's the intentional heart of the series, and that once you know what to look for you can see the elements that it makes work, and where it doesn't quite stick the landing. It's far from perfectly executed, but I appreciated a lot more on my second playthrough thinking like this.
It's not really a black comedy -- it's intentional camp. Kinda like Metal Gear Solid.
Yeah, intentional camp might be better phrasing - sometimes it's hard for me to tell the difference.
And it's a goshdarn shame TNC went way too far on the humor, which at that point became... Robert Rodriguez/Marvel Cinematic Universe-esque to a jarring degree.
That credits song is still awful. What were they thinking?
while i can see why they chose that song for its rebel against the establishment mentality , turning it into a thrash metal scream fest just destroyed the meaning of its lyrics as well as the association Rock songs have with acts of rebellion. just wished they made it closer to the original or a propaganda re-imagining like the other collectible music in the game.
It honestly is ear-splittingly awful.
It fuckin dragged on too. I liked it for the first 30 seconds to a minute but afterwards it wouldn't end! Understanding the story more thoroughly now since the revolution is now in full effect (makes sense this game was just building more of a resistance even though the first game established a resistance!), it makes much more impactful sense. But still, I would've liked a Mick Gordon rock song or some shit over this.
Holy shit I thought I was the only one thinking so.
Sir Roderick Quincy von thunderbottom, the Magnificent high king of Australia trust me I wouldn't call that thrash more like trash
I love your reviews. I don't think any other RUclipsr analyzes games' story, tones and mechanics as deeply as you do. From all Wolfenstein II I've watched, yours was easy the most interesting and thought-provoking.
switching back and forth from hogan's heros to schindler's list
Explanation of Wolfenstein 2: New Colossus
In this bundle:
Explanation of Wolfenstein: New Order
As a man, I have to agree with that one character that I hate the phrase “balls of steel”. There is nothing but vulnerability when it comes to testes. There are so many more creative ways to say someone is a badass. Lets get creative! Titanium tits! Steel skin! Solid stone skull. Hell yeah.
Same tonal dissonance happens in all Marvel movies. It's like mass media can't have an honest emotional moment anymore :(
I think there's a good reason why there's no real catharsis despite the game's initial impression that it would give a cathartic message to its consumers from the marketing done in the game. The game ends with the american 'resistance' still basically being in its infant stage and ignoring that resistance movements on their own very rarely topple governments (read: almost ever). It is therefore important to note that the lack of catharsis could be because of the knowledge that if you were to sell a cathartic message it would diffuse a lot of political energy that is needed for actual change. I believe the writers knew that the topics they were touching upon are still very active to this day and as such avoiding catharsis is important to ensure that while you're still selling a product you're not selling actual catharsis to the consumer which would prevent actual change.
I'm glad there's someone that touched on some of the things other reviewers managed to miss in glorious fashion even though the game is pretty on the nose with its messages.
The same flaws also apply with Deus Ex: Mankind Divided, Halo 2, and Star Wars: Republic Commando.
Granted, at least Halo 2 got nicely resolved with Halo 3, while Republic Commando admittedly fits in with the Karen Traviss feel of darkness in the tie-in novels.
I like the Difference.
Totalbiscuit on BJs Character: "Really boring, I'd rather play as one of the other side characters."
Errant Signal on BJ: "The most intricate and contradictory character ever!"
Total biscuit sucks tbh.
Both descriptions seem fair to me.
He's not really the sophisticated type. He's more of the casual type but still plays a lot of games. He's the hedonist critic
Take the BJs phrases out of the context of constant contradiction (background ES talking about) and it would sound boring. ES just digging deeper, looking for different perspective, that's why we love him.
I mean I haven't played the game so my opinion is perhaps not valid but even in context he sounds like a generic murderous slab of meat. I'm not saying it's bad but I can see why someone else might find it boring.
the new order was just so much better and emotional, too
I literally just finished it and it isn't
@@da_big_scouser1759 I don't think you understand how opinions work.
About the gameplay concerns :
1. Stealth has so much better options now , you even have harness and the associated perk to help you out. It's just secondary routes actually need you to look out for to get the commanders alone unlike the first game where it was very obvious.
2. Complaining about autosaves makes no sense when you can manually save anytime.
I still prefer how TNO+TOB did things on stealth and sudden gunplay. Never felt a lot of catharsis with TNC's side missions.
That I can agree, the forgotten value of manual saving.
I found this review quite weird, because many of the things it criticises about both the New Colossus and the new Order are the things that I think make this latest iteration of the franchise so wonderful and amazing. For me, "tonal whiplash" was never a thing. In fact, one of the things I often say about the New Order when recommending it to people is that it's a game that makes a horrifying visit to a concentration camp and a sequence where you fight Nazis on the moon feel like they belong together in the same game. It was an amazing achievement in walking along a razor's edge, tonally. And I feel like the mixture of humour and deadly seriousness works to heighten the realism of an otherwise extremely unrealistic setting, because life is often a mixture of humour and deadly seriousness. Often at the same time.
I didn't think the New Colossus was as good as the New Order, largely because the missions felt less varied, and it felt like it did a poorer job of world building (as this review says, its much more character focused). But I still think it's pretty amazing, and hope they get to make the third part of the story.
Just because there is contrast doesn't mean that the one devalues the other. This game kinda reminds me of a tarentino movie.
And not in a satisfying manner either. Hell, TNC actually leans more into the dated cringe of Spy Kids, while Youngblood became, well, Sharkboy and Lavagirl.
I don't think that Wolfenstein II the New Colossus's darker tone conflicts with the humor. If anything, the humor helps to lighten the much darker moments and it also makes the characters seem real and genuine. The combat is intense and challenging, even more so than it was in The New Order. The narrative is well told. Visually, the game looks great. The voice acting is solid. In an age where a lot of games have microtransactions, loot boxes and tacked on multiplayer modes, Wolfenstein II the New Colossus focuses strictly on a single player driven game without any of the nonsense. The characters are interesting and are easy to relate to. However, the game is far from perfect. The are some gripes that I have with it. I am not a fan of the level layout. There are times when I find myself going around in circles, backtracking and even getting lost as well. The save system isn't exactly generous, which means I'll have to retry entire sections when I die. There are times when stealth works and there are times when stealth doesn't work due to the layout of the enemies in a given area. In a game where stealth is more of a focus when compared to its predecessor, Wolfenstein II manages to stumble a bit in this aspect. The moment that I do get spotted, a bunch of Nazi reinforcements show up. It really ends up complicating matters given B.J. Blazkowicz's low health, even though he's wearing an armored suit. Unfortunately, you can't upgrade B.J.'s health until later in the game. Increasing his health and armor via health and armor pickups only lasts for a short time, which doesn't work well in a massive firefight. Despite the issues that I've mentioned, Wolfenstein II is still a really fun FPS. It has it's shortcomings for sure. However, it's positives far outweigh it's negatives.
I'll say otherwise. The New Order+The Old Blood, though older and still have issues, have a more balanced feel of pathos and seriousness than the excessive TNC.
Helps that the former works far better as an bittersweet yet triumphant endgame for the Deathshead saga of B.J. Blazkowicz.
Hrrrm, I can't quite feel the criticisms you make of this game. The tonal dissonances worked pretty well for me. They made it all feel *real*. They define characters and remind you of what you're fighting for. It elevates the action from only hating Nazis to actually loving people you defend from those Nazis you're killing.
I don't see a contradiction in condemning nazi violence while loving violence against nazis. They come from totally different and opposing things.
kan't be Eh depends on the violence and how much of a "nazi" it is. I think it's more nuanced.
Think about what you just said dude. Just sit and think on it for a second, if you can't see what's wrong with what you just said, I think you might have problems.
Its less that there is an actual contradiction and more that the space between nazi violence and bigotry isn't addressed. The reason why it isn't addressed is because you can't shoot it in the face. Americans don't fight for things, we fight against villains. Its how we can hate nazis and love freedom while abiding by institutional bigotry. You can't really put a face to voter supression and you can't solve it with a hatchet. We approach things through a filter of violence. Its bizarre in how its seemingly an underdeveloped it is and I think the developers were trying to point out that you can believe these things while failing to live up to the logical endpoint of these things.
Well. Care to explain? I would want to hear your take on the question why it is wrong to kill nazis by all means imaginable when said nazis are the scourge of Earth, when they don't have any human character that is dear to people (considering, of course, that we make that assumption; we don't suppose that they are just soldiers)
Kan't be I Agree. I basically just wrote a comment of my own more or less saying what you did. I'm kind of over the whole ludonarrative dissonance thing tbh. Sure, in the real world things can be and often are more complicated then just a violent solution and I certainly don't believe it should be the first or only option, but when we are talking about fighting a Nazis regime then well so what. However, if the enemies of a game are a bit more generic or less specific then you could potentially have issues.
For instance, I believe some of the Call of Duty games got some flak for playing into Islamophobia and stereotyping terrorism in the kind of terror crazed panic post 911. So why then is Call of Duty's portrayal of terrorist problematic but Wolfensteins portrayal of Nazi's is not? Well I would argue that its because Call of Duty made the terrorism a bit to vague and relied on stereotypical short hands that get kind of messy. But say for instance a Call of Duty game had you fighting Isis and they clearly defined them as Isis or a made up equivalent, well then that would be the same as clearly defining Nazis. We are no longer summoning up vague ideas of middle eastern groups that are subject to bias blind spots but instead focusing in on a very specific group that in no way represents middle easterners or Islam as a whole. Just like you wouldn't generally cast enemies in a game as vaguely Germanic with Germanic stereotypes and imagery and then just say they were Nazis. No, instead if you're going for Nazis you would clearly make them Nazis or a fictional equivalent. And that's exactly what Wolfenstein does. So if a Call of Duty game wants to be about killing Isis then i'd have zero objection. And again, in the real world its not all that easy, I believe that Isis should be fought, but I certainly don't want indiscriminate military attacks that will lead to civilian deaths and destabilization in the region. Same would go for fighting Nazis. I'm certainly glad the Nazi's were beat in WW2 but I do find it at best problematic in the way many German cities filled with civilians were carpet bombed and what not, or how two nukes were dropped on Japanese civilians. But honestly in regards to a video game I say have all the ludonarrative dissonance you want unless it goes directly against the games message, say a game that is about saving civilians but instead the goal of the game is to carpet bomb them all, well then you've done messed up at that point.
Well, I feel like that was an unnecessarily deep comment with random politics but I had to get those thoughts out.
I love the detail and fairness of your deconstructions. Every video is the highlight of my day :)
I recommend playing on the easiest setting and playing run n gun. Higher difficulties just make you have to cling to cover more and go at a snails pace. I played hard and I played stealthy but I probably would have had more fun on easy.
If you just want to mindlessly blast through the game without thinking, theres nothing wrong with putting it on easy and enjoying it that way. Its just not true that you cant run n gun through the harder difficulties though, quite the opposite.
Most people I see that say that doesnt work keep running straight at enemies. No shit they are dying fast, run n gun doesnt mean 'mindlessly run into enemy while shooting'. I obviously dont know if you played like that though, I wasnt there :p
All that cover doesn't seem to be really meant to hide behind either, it seems more meant to protect you while you run behind it. Why? Because that actually works and makes the enemies not hit you (it practically turn them into star wars stormtroopers), while hiding behind cover only leads to concentrate all the enemy fire on your current possition making it so that you take huge damage as soon as you pop out of cover. Especially on higher difficulties.
You can also notice a lot of the levels are very much build around leading enemies into bottlenecks while running around if you just go for it.
The game should really make that clearer. Its kind of trying by killing the player quickly for playing 'the wrong way' but doesn't do anything to nudge em towards a more effective strategy. Imo its pretty logical a player wont assume the solution to dying too fast would be running around more/better. The slower you go on harder difficulties the harder you are actually making it for yourself. I totally did the same as you my first time through.
ApenBaard it's still nowhere near as satisfying as fighting enemies with projectile weapons. The problem is that bullets are too fast if not instant. Games like Doom allowed you to dodge projectiles without the need for cover. The fact that you can't dodge any of the attacks just makes action sequences feel terrible. This could have easily been mitigated by increasing your health. The game feels like it is obligated to live up to the legacy of Doom and other similar shooters but really wanted to have a more simplified and modernized military shooter action sequences. I kinda wish it stuck to stealth alone because I've had enough of facing hitscan enemies with hitscan weapons.
BlueLightningSky so you’re saying everyone in the game shouldn’t use guns because bullets are too fast?
I cant do it lol. I find easy just not satisfying enough I like a bit of a grind.
Originally played on normal with a. Run-and-gun mentality, and recently replayed on second highest difficulty going primarily stealth, and actually trying to aim this time a lot (until I got fed up and shifted over to the shotgun for my main in-combat weapon). Absolutely agree with this mentality. It’s a great stealth game and a great action game, just not always the best at the intersection.
I personally love the toilet humor clashing with the tense moment. It's not "weird", it's just not what you were expecting. It sums up life's small moments so well and it's refreshing to see a game that doesnt take itself too seriously all the time. We would be fooling ourselves if we pretended that things like this never happen just because it's serious stuff at stake.
The stealth changes are somewhat okay since you can quivksave anywhere (but is still annoying to trip all alarms by being spotted for 1 second)
So Chris... Didn't you like robocop? Because personally I tought that the tonal-shift in New Order was just a lot like a good Paul Verhoeven film.
As long as it's just the original first movie, and not the narmy sequels and the awkward remake.
Side note the new body is not a robot body, it’s an engineered body yes but it is biological, at least for the most part. It is more interesting however that it’s a body created for Nazi Super-soldiers, and yet here it is giving Blazko new life
I know you preferred the tone of this one but I preferred The New Order more when it came to overall quality. The writing was more consistent and the encounters were more memorable. For the whole game you're expecting "this is the moment where it turns into a big dumb action shooter with the world revolting against the Nazis, just like the trailers advertised." Instead the conclusion is a downbeat final level with a message of hope - BJ giving the Resistance a huge advantage by killing Deathshead (his enemy for 3.5 games counting the DLC) and finally seemingly succumbing to death after fighting the Nazis for most his life and simply being too old, broken and tired for it. Sure, the hero dies and the Nazis still technically rule the world, but the game shows their empire is beginning to crumble and the things keeping people in check have been destroyed.
In this game, outside BJ's superhero origin story (the scenes with his father/mother are well written) and the games views on femininity that you mentioned I thought this was a huge step down from TNO and its DLC. The first half goes in hard with the depressive feels (the Caroline monologues border on self-parody) then the tone change and twist half-way through were too absurd even for Wolfenstein. I wish they'd have let BJ die at the end of the last game and switched over to another character since his story arc was already done - he was a tired 90s FPS action hero doing one last job. After the head transplant the game turns into Saints Row The Third (the drunken birthday party, Hitler audition, pregnant gun akimbo action) then it ends with a sequel hook and a credits song that should be classified as a war crime. Add to this the lesser level variety and worse design - over half of them are honest to god metal corridors or the gray Manhattan rubble -, awful player hit feedback and enemies blending with the environment due to their design and you have yourself a disappointing sequel. As a great man once said "What a shame."
While I do agree that TNO was better overall in being tonally consistent compared to TNC (which honestly felt unfinished at the second part), I wouldn't say TNC was a shame. It still had the same cool characters and interactions, and the first half of the game was like The Empire Strikes Back of the franchise, and honestly man, while the head transplant is in itself ridiculous, that and all the stuff leading up to it was one of my favorite climaxes in a game, ever. After that though, the game goes a bit downhill (Hitler was a nice funny surprise though), and I do agree that overall the game felt less memorable due to the levels themselves being far less memorable. I was slightly dissapointed in the game in terms of its story and levels, sure, but it is still a great game. The first game definitely holds up on its own far better, whereas the second one doesn't, which I think is a fair cirticism to make.
My exact feelings on the matter and Im glad Im not crazy in feeling this way.
I wouldn't like to see BJ killed off as a character, that wouldn't be Wolfenstein anymore. I think his own (as this video states) contradictory existence and his internal struggle is what sets the tone for Wolfenstein games, at least for me that is.
What made me really like and enjoy The New Order is not just the story-line which to me was great even not considering it's an FPS, but BJ as a character. The smell of revenge in the air from the moment he heard that the Nazis won, showing obvious disbelief and denial in that moment, not wanting to accept that, and the constant feeling of his growing anger and contempt for the Nazis. It's like he felt the burden of the entire humanity on his shoulders but kept pushing on. I don't know, maybe I am romanticizing him but I felt like him while playing. To me, that makes a great character.
Now, granted, he is not exactly the same in The New Colossus but hey, I'd rather have him that some random character in his place.
The New Order is the game I've played a couple of times and will do it again, I can't say the same for The New Colossus. I did enjoy it for what it is, but I don't see another play-trough coming.
But it's not the story, or the characters, or the weird stuff, it's game-play that ultimately sets these games apart. Not only is it shorter, and I wouldn't mind the length so much if it was of high quality, but the constant interruptions just made me feel like I have no control over the game. It was more like an interactive movie than a game. There were occasional good bits but for the most part, the game-play isn't memorable or exciting at all.
This. Hell, I could even say the same with Deus Ex: Human Revolution being superior to Mankind Divided due to similar reasons and also fitting already well as a standalone title... although both do still pale in comparison to the original DX.
You forget, the opening scene of Inglourious Bastards, we see Nazis hunting down a Jewish family with only one escaping by the skin of her teeth, and a good chunk of the movie is about her plotting her much more personal vengeance and navigating around the Nazis surrounding her. It had that serious look at that, not just the bastards smashing Nazi skulls in with a baseball bat
Basically, a feel nicely similar to The New Order, which The New Colossus unwisely ditched by doing a post-From Dusk Till Dawn/Sin City Robert Rodriguez.
That outro music brings back so many memories of playing Wolfenstein 3d. One of the first games I played when I was much younger. Somehow I still remember it instantly. Weird that.
I don't know if you'll ever read this, but this is a very humanistic view of this work. Even as a progressive I was mildly dismissive, but this is an insightful video. Time has only made this video more relevant.
...this is one of my favorite games of this generation; I’ve just completed The New Order for the fourth time (this time on the highest difficulty level) and dove straight into The New Colossus on the second-highest difficultly (Terror Billy), and I’d say I like New Colossus more...too bad Youngblood was so disappointing; hope we get a legit sequel to this one...
Have you checked The Old Blood?
I made the mistake of first playing through the game on the 'I am Death Incarnate!' difficulty. One of the worst gaming experiences of my life. I died more times than in a Dark Souls game.
Have you ever considered that if something maintained a sole, consistent tone, it would be really, amazingly, crushingly boring? Not just video games. Stories are journeys. With joy and pain. Change and growth. No one changed my staying the same.
That's not how writing works. You don't have to mix tones and break them constantly in order to avoid being boring. That's bad writing.
That's just not ture
Just a small note: if his mom subscribed to like orthodox or conservative judaism, then he would be considered fully Jewish under the halakha. If they were more subscribed to like a Reconstructionist practice, then it wouldn’t matter and he’d be fully Jewish.
While I think the current ending will be considered canon, I believe there's some pretty strong subtext implying BJ died during the execution. The following hours have some pretty strong, strangely accomodated upbeat moments, that are almost surreal. Also, some particular lighting choices by the artists. I think the latter half of the game is his death dream.
I still think he should have died on the endgame of The New Order.
Having shifts in tone isn't a flaw. In the TV Tropes page for "Bathos", it quotes Joss Wheedon saying, "Make it dark, make it grim, make it tough, but then, for the love of God, tell a joke."
One thing I really disdain in a lot of games (including the likes of Demon's Souls/Dark Souls, whose setting I know a lot of people loved, but I absolutely despised) is that concept of "Darkness Induced Audience Apathy". (To go back to Demon's Souls for a second, you're asked whether you want to save or destroy a dark world where all the gods and heroes have either died or gone insane and require you to kill them... but honestly, what's the difference? There's nothing left in the world WORTH saving, so why should I be invested in this question at all?)
So yes, just as a game should break up its grindhouse violence gameplay by having stupid block-pushing puzzles or cutscenes or anything to add variety (even if block-pushing puzzles are objectively not any fun for most players) so the combat that is still the core gameplay players came to the game to enjoy doesn't become a boring exercise in grinding, a narrative-focused game that wants to tell a dark story of horror and loss and violence needs to have a poop joke now and then just to bring the audience back to caring about these characters and what happens to them, lest the relentless drudgery of "Nazis were bad" make people go completely numb. A joke about someone apparently caring more about having toilet paper again than the horrors of war can go a long way in making people understand the context of the lives these people are living and humanize them so that what happens afterwards actually matters to those who see it.
After all, violence happens all the time in ancient history or the animal world, but people really don't care, it's just "a bunch of stuff that happened" (in the words of Homer J. Simpson), provided you haven't had any reason to choose a side. This is why Football teams have to wrap themselves up in whatever locality they are based in (for the moment) or race car drivers or professional wrestlers have to hype up the personalities of individuals so that a scripted wrestling match can somehow be a proxy for who wins the Cold War, because otherwise, there's really nothing to make the audience care.
Holy Shit, that was Debra Wilson?? Now I feel like watching old MADtv episodes.
I know, right?! It's a fantastic performance, especially when she has extended monologues.
I really appreciate the way this sort of criticism pushes games to be more thoughtful experiences.
Honestly though, Wolfenstein 1 and 2 still both manage to be a hell of a lot more thoughtful than most modern shooters. COD deliberately tries to say nothing, which winds up leaving it as military propaganda basically
I really can't figure out what they were going for with that Anya-naked-rampage scene. Or that outro music. The Venus mission and the Hitler scene were too much as well.
They overdid it, but the game's still pretty great. Played it twice already, but still thinking about it
Sacred feminine dude.
So the biggest problem with the game is that real life got worse.
I'm not sure how the richest percent of america counts as many, but sure.
When you think about it, 3 million people (i.e., 1% of the population of the U.S.) is many.
"For many it got better"
No, it didn't. The people you're talking about are still poor, angry, and pathetic. Only difference now is that they no longer have an Obama in power to blame it on.
@@NoobLord9001 no it did got better
Brings into mind why Hogan's Heroes didn't grow on me, while M*A*S*H* did.
I think that the oddity of the tone clashing with itself is a part of the game trying to wake people up. I have this idea that when you're presenting something that maybe someone has heard before, that in their head, they'll just "yada yada yada" it away. If you break through, present something weird, like the tone whiplash, and then present those same ideas, I think they're more likely to get through and make someone actually think about the ideas being presented.
I agree with your critique of the inconsistent game play that jumps from half baked stealth to half baked run and gun, a problem that i think a lot of newer Fps games have to be honest. However I have to differ with two points in regards to the games messaging.
1) The idea that its not the breath of anti fascist fresh air we need right now.
2) That the game cheapens its serious issues with its over the top violence.
The fact that this game even potentially felt like it could be a breath of fresh air shows you how messed up things already are. When a game about fighting Nazi's and their ideology seems like some brave political statement that brings the ire from alt-right fascist sympathizers and even legit out in the open Nazi's then well that speaks for itself imo to how much this game is needed regardless of how flawed it may be.
Then in regards to it being violent while still having progressive messages for serious political issues; I see no problem with those two existing side by side. The ugly fact of the matter is that people are going to be drawn to the game because of the violence and then hopefully they will pick up a good message or two. Only a few would turn up for a game about taking down Nazis if the game-play was all non violent and cerebral. I think I understand what your getting at is that the over the top action potentially cheapens the serious undertone messages of the game. That's fair enough, and if we lived in a world where people enjoyed entertainment for the message and not the fun, then that would work. But still, I see no problem with a game being a blow everything up shooter while still being philosophical, emotional and political in its messages so long as the violence in the game does not undermined the core message. And personally i just don't see anywhere where this game has any serious ludo-narrative dissonance, being that I doubt any of the Nazis you kill are not aware of what their order is and stands for. And though the game preaches tolerance it certainly does not teach tolerance for intolerance when that intolerance leads to violent supremacist ideologies.
But I have only played the game once through currently, so I may be missing something and may be misunderstanding some of your arguments. Either way I enjoyed the video and critiques. But before I wrap this way overlong comment up, I have to point out a part that I really loved about this game that supports your analysis of the gender dynamics being played around with a bit. The part where after you break out of the Nazi court room from your dream and BJ sees his mother and goes and basically has a break down in her lap was really touching and showed a vulnerable side to a traditional macho blow everything up dude bro character that we never get to see in games, or hardly anywhere else for that matter. I think the game does a great job at showing how BJ is both strong and weak at the same time, but that weakness and emotion isn't played for laughs or criticized as being unmanly. And again that touching scene happens right after you mercilessly mow down dozens of Nazis in his dream. This shows how you can have crazy violence paired with emotional moments simultaneously imo.
I feel like in personal stories during a war. There's always moments of levity and joy, can't be serious all the time, kind of makes the war feels worst.
One other thing, though. I think they're a lot more on the ball with the story they're telling than you give them credit for being. I get the feeling that digging in on "this game was written two years ago" would benefit from keeping in mind that this was not new then and there were plenty of people getting loud about the threats of American fascism (or protofascism, but hey, just add some time).
Two years ago, Donald Trump's Presidential campaign was _already in full swing_.
Ed Ropple Two years ago almost no one thought Donald Trump would win, though. No one who wasn't well established within the political system had made any headway in a presidential campaign in... I don't know how long. Certainly not within my lifetime, so at least 3 decades. At first, no one expected him to make it to the primaries, then no one expected him to get the nomination. Until the moment he won, I was convinced that there was no way someone as established as Clinton could lose.
Two years ago, the idea of Trump as President of the United States was a punchline. Today, it's a surreal fact of life.
I was going to write pretty much the same thing 'til I read your comment. Bang on.
The American ideal isn't a bad thing. Truth. Justice. Liberty etc. Maybe, in this Wolfenstein reality, the American dream is actually a good thing instead of an excuse for greed and power. Maybe the nazis affecting America in this universe makes those characteristics stand for something instead of just being crowd rallying calls. Maybe this Swedish crew is trying to remind Americans about the basics of their beliefs that seem to have gotten so warped lately.
Everyone can have ideals but truth, justice, liberty etc should be at the heart of everything.
After playing the game, those were my impressions.
And I'm Scottish.
Maudlin there were a lot of leftists back then that warned Donald Trump could win, and I think, given Wolf 2's content, the writers at Machine Games at least paid a little attention to leftism.
A little.
Not enough to realize it's fucked up to have Horton literally wrap himself in the American flag, but... a little.
The people crying "fascism" in today's world have more in common with fascists than anyone they scream at
Antiform Ofc mate, go back to bed.
I won't be playing this game since everyone seems to agree that the gameplay is at least slightly worse than the new order, which I found to be just enjoyable enough to finish a playthrough. Thankful for videos like these that breakdown the themes of the game.
I think it's actually much better as a work of art than a flash in the pan stupid game.
dude i can't believe you did this video and didn't even stop for a second to contemplate how the deliberate inclusion of american communists and anarchists might factor into it. It's not about American ideals, but international revolutionary ideals.
absolutely. I'm curious how much of this is setup for the next game. I don't think America will rise up the way BJ and even Grace expects it to. I wonder if Horton will have a bigger role.
The thing is that anarchy and communism aren't incongruous with american ideals. American idealism is empathy expressed through violence upon some arsehole or another. If there isn't somebody neatly fitting this role as an arsehole to use violence against then americans don't express this empathy. Sure, there are communist and anarchists in the game but what are they fighting? Are they fighting capitalism? Are they fighting big government? No, they're fighting something that you can solve with a bullet - nazis. Does BJ fight institutional bigotry like segregation? The first game demonstrated that, while he didn't approve of it, he didn't really fight it either. He fights nazis. Its how we work. We love guns and we love shooting bad guys with gun. You can't shoot poverty.
Aldowyn they better not make another piece of shit Wolfe stein game I’m not kidding why is this series around when it’s never held a candle up to DOOM?
14:55 Weird tone in the game eh?
Stay away from Yakuza games then.. That games tonality shifts is what makes it a fantastic series.
I don't know, those games admittedly deliver quite well on mixing the Japanese whimsy and the Japanese themes of determination, grit, and finality.
The New Colossus, umm... suffice to say, it basing itself too much on Robert Rodriguez whimsy is a huge step down compared to the grimness and pathos of The New Order+The Old Blood.
Your opinion seems to be affected a lot by your gameplay experience. And visualizing the video, it seems that we had a very different one. Not that your version is bad, I had the same at the beginning. But, a bit before the half of the game, I realized that I was playing... wrong.
Not wrong in a pejorative way, but simply in an effective way. Since the game doesn't have regenerative heal, and that the enemies have most of the time hitscan weapons, I had no interest in playing safe. Like you, I was switching between shooting the enemies safely, aiming with my gun, and then going back for heals. But then I switched to a more aggressive playstyle. Instead of doing the fights the safest way possible, I tried to do theme the fasted way possible, optimising every second of combat. I abused of the 2 weapons trick, switching between left/right inflict the maximum amount of damage per second. I ended in a kind of killing frenzy where you basically destroy nazis per dozens, exploding there head in half a second. After that change, the game felt a lot funnier, and I really had the feeling of being an American super soldier, almost unstoppable. I almost never had to go undercover, except to manage and reload my guns sometimes, which is, in my opinion, a good thing.
Perhaps the duality of the new order in tone has deeper meaning. As in, we aren't really horrified by the sick things that Nazis did, but rather we use them as an excuse to do the same things
it's mainly the left, ironically, who use their tactics while screaming at centrists and right-wingers that THEY'RE the nazis.
Leftists haven't killed anyone. Right wingers have killed a LOT of people in just the past year alone. Including shooting up buildings and running people over with cars.
headphonic8 Umm... I Thought Leftists are communist, who killed even more people than right wingers...
I think what headphonic8 means by "Leftists haven't killed anyone" is that "Feminism, the LGBTQ+, and other similar civil rights movements haven't killed anyone." Communism has no currency in modern american discourse thanks to its overuse as a pejorative, so people who just want healthcare and higher wages are called a bunch of things, including "leftist," while people who want to emulate Stalin and Mao's communist regimes-- racism, homophobia, etc. included --are called "tankies."
I never got the argument that something can be too "over the top" to be taken seriously.
Sorry for responding to a comment 5 years later, but have you ever seen any anime by studio Trigger, notably Kill La Kill or it’s pre-trigger older brother Gurren Lagann? Trigger knows how to make over the top things with outstanding themes and characters but sometimes, for Gurren Lagann more frequently I would say, people see that it’s over the top and ignore what it’s trying to say, which turns the interesting slow bit in the middle into a bore instead. Always be ready to listen even if something seems dumb on the surface. Of course, be ready to recognize nonsense as nonsense, Trigger uses a similar enough presentation for their dumb things which have no deeper meaning, like Panty and Stocking with Garterbelt and it’s all insane fun and the only way to tell the difference is to watch
At least Studios Gainax and Trigger anime actually have surprisingly addictive if unexplainable charm and wit surrounding them.
The New Colossus *doesn't* have that, and it ditching the grim yet natural challenge and resolve of The New Order and The Old Blood so to promote some unholy Robert Rodriguez/lite Quentin Tarantino nonsense just... makes it very easy to NOT recommend even to FPS gamers and id Software veterans.
The gunplay on the first game was great. I just wanted more action, not more cutscenes. I think they are trying too hard to be deep and in the end its just annoying or depressing.
Alrekr666 For you. For me, I don't mind a more passive way of storytelling, even if it's medium's main selling point is its interactivity, or its origins stem from continuous interactions. A medium needs to be diverse for it to evolve. Serious Sam and Gone Home can exist in the same realm. For me. They really needed to program auto-pickup on health and armor, though.
Two big things:
1: I think 'The New Colossus' as a title is at least partially a reference to BJ himself, as a reflection of both a physical body and an ideology partially borrowed from european forebears, and a symbol of the future for america. Possibly the defining ideology of The New Colossus is that violence as a response to fascist ideology is not only appropriate and warranted, but expected and maybe even particularly /American/? (or that it can and should be in response to something so direct. IDK. I'm definitely biased towards the idea of turning american exceptionalism to good use)
2: as far as America's assumed unspoken, untapped desire and capability of capital-R "Resistance" to fascism goes: I have a feeling the new colossus suffers from being the middle chapter here, in addition to it being a late pivot as response to recent political events. Either way, I have a distinct feeling it's not going to be as a given as BJ and co seem to think it is in this game; that would be far too easy for a game that has attempted thematic depth in the way this series has continued to do.
5:22 some writer was SOOOOOOOO happy with themselves for that without stopping to think that that's precisely why balls made out of steel that don't fell you with a tap is actually the point of the saying.
I found most of the writing to be pointless fluff for the sake of sounding bad ass. Too many cut scenes for a start and not enough killing nazis and the general arenas were crap imo and stealth utterly pointless. Still has its moments for sure but new order was far better. I think doom eternal is their best effort.
Well, Grace is commenting on the prevailant use of balls to define badassery, not specifically balls of steel. Balls of steel of course you can get hit in them and not flinch but it’s often just “balls,” not “balls of steel” used to show badassery
A deep dive into a potentiality that happened.
Debra Wilson has the greatest performance I've seen put to game.
andid She deserves an Annie Award for her performance...
This game actually had a story line. That's more than most games in AAA category.
Nazi violence and violence against Nazis are not equal. That should be a given.
Best game of 2017.
And about autosaves, you can save in this game manually
Thanks for the video, I won't be tempted to play it now. :D
First one let me with... mixed feelings...
27:08 WTF!
Campster just makes all the points i ever wanted to discuss and much much more so effortlessly and fluently, it's uncanny.
Guess I'll go back and plkay Doom 2016 again...
There's also something to be said for the scene with Hitler that allows you to kick him while he's down. In both meanings of the word, since you're literally kicking Hitler while he's on the ground, but you're also kicking a frail, half-senile old man who's clearly already on death's door as it is.
I just clicked a link for Usher's "Merry Christmas, Xbox" video because the thumbnail looked like it was an Errant Signal video, then I flip over to my subscriptions, and Campster's back! Can't be coincidence.
Twinkle twinkle little star
happy easter xbox
Comparing this game for what it might have been seems to be a mistake. I think that this game should be recognized for what it is a good move by AAA Studio. The world would be better if or more games like this.
Only if you're referring to The New Order+The Old Blood.
This is one of the most subjective games i ever played. I thank Machinegames for having the balls to make a "controversial" game though
Very nice, in depth game report... HOLY CRAP is this game gorgeous though! WOW
It's refreshing to see a review of this game that is critical but doesn't devolve into "PC" this and "SJW" that. I mean, that's obviously not Campster's M.O., but still...
I do find the claims of "political correctness" to be odd because I found the game to be anything but. There's all kinds of stuff in here that would have been right at home in a Garth Ennis comic (especially the topless, blood-spattered Anya machine gunning Nazis).
People forgot what PC means
Yes chud the gory game with nudity and nazi imagery gallore is totally PC
16:42 nicely pulled off :D
...Just how the heck did MachineGames, in spite of their wholesome depth and knowhow shown in The New Order and The Old Blood, even screw the sequel up, gods?! And make it even more worse in the Spy Kids cringefest of Youngblood?!?
In short, I prefer TNO+TOB being a standalone masterpiece of theirs, while the Robert Rodriguez/Quentin Tarantino-mired sequels should be Elseworlds tales that may or may not be a strange yet somewhat heartwarming death throes vision of the brave and self-sacrificing B.J. Blazkowicz.
Oh, and I hate this game and love what came before (especially including the simplistic yet still awesome Return to Castle Wolfenstein) not because of the so-called PC-ness... no, I hate it because it didn't execute the right tones and beauteous nuance that the last game (in which the things you, Errant Signal, didn't like there are actually things that I and a certain amount of players and fans LOVED) gloriously did well.
This game was no way near as good as the first one, and that is only from a pure gameplay perspective. I did enjoy the story in all its ridiculous silliness, but the levels and set pieces were so much better in the first game, and there were actual boss fights which have been removed here completely.
The tone and gameplay problems here are the exact reason I couldn't bear to finish the first game.
I don't know, these "flaws" are actually well balanced and thus better feeling in TNO+TOB for me. Hence, why I love and constantly replay that game and itexpansion whilst sorely wanting to treat TNC onwards as an Elseworlds tale where things went differently in some ways, like B.J. never sacrificing himself during the final battle against Deathshead.
astounding work, as usual !
The main plot of Wolfenstein 2 was written back in 2014-2015 before the current neo-fascist discourse took off, so the incidental newspaper clippings mocking the current political climate were a later addition as opposed to the driving theme of the game.
That's probably a good thing. The current Trump/Anti-fa situation is so poorly understood by people on both sides that I'd hate to see the game marred by bias or ignorance.
It's more than close enough for them to have modified it to tack closer, tho. And there's a pretty simple reading of the end sequence as satire referencing Trump's appearance on the Tonight Show
That wasn't before it took off, this SJW shit was already in the pipeline as early as 2013.
no man you have to go back even further... check out Brown v. Board of Education 1954. Total SJW bullshit
1865 never forget the VOILENCE of the SJWs!
The toilet bit isn't a poop joke. It's a maritime joke featuring poop.
Des-pear-ant. What? It's desperate. Des-per-ate. Desperate.
i'm saying this mostly to defend new order, not new colossus (i loved both, BTW,) but it's hard for me to accept the criticism that the ultraviolence and the nazi realism don't belong together in new order (which is a really reductive way of phrasing your criticism, i know.) i think the endless massacre works really well as a simulation of the fatigue of resistance. the nazis of TNO fight africans and call it "the war." the german citizens are still at war, even in peace. suspicion, violence, and everything else that they've lived with for a generation. the resistance is going by the same names, with permanent injuries, and they're all running out of energy. How do you simulate that for a player? endless nazis. every time you clear out an impenetrable superfortress, there's another one behind it. you know the biggest fortress of them all is in the title of the game, but the credits roll and you still haven't even gotten close enough to see it. it's a knife, stabbing through a nazi face, forever.
if part of TNO doesn't fit, i think it's the da'at yichud stuff. i like the acknowledgement that the nazis were hack frauds who stole all of their tech, but set roth seems to always have some sort of gadget or vault somewhere. it's all clean and cool and the suit looks like something out of one of those sci-fi PS3 "halo-killer" games. i'd have liked it if Set fit more neatly within the sad violin of the europe setting.
You put my feelings on this game perfectly into words. It just felt... weird. Love the world, I'd love to see it explored in a more fully realized, more serious game. Well, as serious as you can get with giant mechs running around in 1960s America.
As always great episode!
Hey Campster, do you have any interest in discussing Nier Automata in a near future?
Loved the video as always. Thanks.
I played it on the easiest difficulty which actually made it extremely fun
If you’re going to criticize this game for attempting to comment on contemporary race relations in America, then you should be standing on firm ground yourself; and taking from your quips in the present video, you probably believe that ‘hands up don’t shoot!’ has basis in historical fact. And if so, you shouldn’t be quipping.
Damn, I'm amazed every time by how insightful your videos are.
oh yeah, I forgot that this game even existed.
That's a pretty normal response.
Any chance of a rise of the tomb raider review. I really enjoyed the review of the first game.
Then maybe its inadequacy should be a wake up call.
I don't think the empathy and violence are as contradictory as you think. Its examining the american myth from the perspective and values of americans, which is specifically different from foreigners, and then examing the space that exists between the values of violence and empathy.
Ask any american "what are the great contributions the United States made to the world in the 20th century?" and they'll list something about fighting. Fighting nazis, fighting commies, fighting bigotry, and fighting polio will be the most popular things cited. Ask a foreigner and they'll say something different - mostly inventing things like the polio vaccine or citing NASA. Ask "what are the great american shames of the 20th century?" to an american and they'll say Vietnam, the assassination of Martin Luther King, the internment of Japanese-Americans, or disregarding the AIDS crisis and letting it develop into a much worse thing that it would have becuse of homophobia. Our great shames are military losses and bigotry. Ask a foreigner and they'll unload a laundry list that often won't include any of those. They'll say "overthrowing democratic government", "waiting too long to enter World War II", or "nuking Japan." They might mention the AIDS crisis but only because the U.S.' reluctance to address it early is part of why its such a worldwide epidemic. There is a huge difference in values and I think the developers are examing the values that americans themselves think the country stands for.
America was founded upon violence. It was built further with violence. Its fundamental to our nation. We're always fighting against something though, not for something. We didn't for minorities, we fought against bigotry. We saved millions of lives from polio, we eradicated polio. We didn't save Europe, we kicked nazi ass. Teddy Roosevelt didn't protect the poor, he fought the robber barons. Lincoln didn't preserve the union, Lincoln fought slavery. Martin Luther King didn't fight for so his children could have a future where they're jWe've managed to incorporate our foundational violence into our country's ethos. Even when standing up for something instead of against something there is a compromise there's still violence. Superman "stands for truth, justice, and the american way!" "the american way" meaning punching lots of bad guys.
In the end, americans exercise their ideals of freedom through beating the crap out of people opposed to that freedom. That empty space between and who it leaves behind is part of what is being examined and part of why certain problems exist today. You can't fight greed but you can fight Mr. Potter. You can't fight oppression but you can fight Darth Vader. You can't fight systemic poverty but you can fight tons of street criminals while dressed up as a bat. You can't fight racism but you can fight Donald Trump. You can't fight religious extremism but you can fight Osama bin Laden. You can't fight homophobia but you can fight Fred Phelps. You can't fight drug addiction but you can fight Mexico. Even when the values are shitty they're still expressed the same way. You can't fight progress but you can fight Barack Obama. Americans need a villain to exert their values against. We don't rally for things, we rally against things, and we do it with violence.
The reason why BJ can gleefully kill thousands of nazis and say that he believes in freedom while also failing to hold up to those ideals is because, as an american, he thinks of what you can do with a nazi and a hatchet instead of what you can do with a pencil and voting ballot. That's how we operate. Its not particularly smart or sophisticated but its not a contradiction either and its largely different than the rest of the world.
IllCaesar Is there ever a chance to fight without getting our American hands dirty with blood?
I wonder if Chris has played Call of Duty: World War II and how he feels about the tone of that game's campaign. While I haven't played this game yet (did play TNO, though) I actually found CoD:WWII's campaign very strong across the board, with some truly powerful moments such as the Paris level, the Church level, Death Factory and the epilogue.
Why does BJ sprint around like the demon in Evil Dead? Is it the super suit or robot body boosting his speed? It’s...jarring.
A fantastic analysis and I find myself mostly landing on the same conclusions and the same disappointments.
Errant Signal saved Wyatt in both games it seems. Excellent taste. JFK is a better character than Fergus.
Also.. Jimi Hendrix
Both are fantastic, man. Fergus's Scottish wit and Wyatt's niave optimism make for characters that are so damn hard to choose from :'(
Yeah, I love both characters, but Wyatt is the canon choice in my opinion. His character just goes so much further from where he started out. He might be my favorite character in the series.
You're the Anthony Bourdain of video games
I would argue that there isn't actually a discrepancy between the depiction of horrors of nazi ideology and the grindhouse violence of New Order, as on a fundamental level, Nazis have surrendered any right to be treated civilly or peacefully. A lot of the game's set-pieces, such as the bridge across Gibraltar and the Moon base, are, in the real world, brilliant, inspirational ideals of international cooperation and progress, here turned into tools of fascist expansionism and oppression. There is a core theme that everything nazis touch and build is fundamentally evil, and that destroying this evil is undeniably good. It is not that nazis are bad because they're violent, but that nazis are bad because they destroy hope and crush the life out of the world.
That scene on the helicopter with "pour some gasoline" rings EXTREMELY hollow. Especially since it goes like this
"Americans didn't wanna fight and instead embraced nazi ideology"
"nu-uh they didn't! They can totally fight Nazis!"
"YEAH THATS WHAT IM TALKING ABOUT BLAZKOWITZ!"
I don't think you can have it both ways.
I would say that you can. Now, I'm judging this just off of what I heard here, having not played the game, but it sounds like the people that were already in power were the ones that gave in. Considering the time period, that sounds more like it's saying that the people who were *already* leaning toward a Nazi/racist ideology are the ones that gave in, and the people who were uninterested before stayed that way. The people that were fighting against them are still fighting, and it feels like instead of the civil rights movement, we end up with armed rebellion against the occupying force.
Yeah that scene felt like it was written with a *BJ coherently argues for the revolutionary potential of the American people here* gap that they forgot to fill before production.
Haha true, it seems like everyone in the game is contradictory. In last game too with the black guy saying how America sucks because racism but them plays the nation anthem when he dies
A lot of people hold the contradiction of a distaste for parts of america, eg racism, while loving other parts and the ideals of america.
There's a term for those irksome scenes where they try to lighten the mood by ending on a lighter note:
Bathos.
Turning serious scenes into trivial scenes with a joke. It should be used very sparingly, not slathered on like peanut butter.
Game couldnt figure out a balance in nearly anything it wanted.