8:26 one additional point is that the auto reload adds to the crossbows utility since it makes every shot disposable since even if you miss you can just switch back to the medigun and get another shot for later in the fight.
Auto reload has another busted utility function on crossbow: you can use medigun to heal player while crossbow recharges, thus you heal faster than with just crossbow or just medigun.
@Don_Kedic If that is the case then that guys is dead no matter what. The range of HP where a player is unsalvageable when you miss a crossbow and try to change to a medigun is abysmally low. I have saved burning players a couple of times with one digit hp left even when i miss my crossbow, the switch speed is just quick and the healing beam is fast to refill hp. Or if the guy is dead from a rocket or other burst source, chances are the medi beam is not fast enough to heal the guy out of death range anyways. Maybe you can argue against a close up revved up heavy?
Honestly I'd say making the jarate have a minute cooldown or something would work, same for the mad milk. Make these game-shifting items have real downtime.
in that case (throwing it in a teamfight and not using it selfishly) it is essentially a mini buff banner with a cooldown rather than a damage requirement. i'm not gonna make any opinions about this, just an observation.
Yeah I would rather Sniper get his ability to counter his bad match-ups get nerfed over his Support utility. I hope if Valve ever updates the Sniper they emphasize his Support role. Between Jarate, his infinite range, and keeping a lookout for backline assaults from Spies, Roaming Soldiers, and Scouts, there are times where having a Sniper who has my back is the most stress-relieving feeling I can get in TF2.
The Crusader's Crossbow is a straight upgrade that somehow it's very fair, the Sandwich is something you need out of necessity (good luck playing Heavy without a Medic), and Jarate is basically "fuck you for even trying to counterplay Sniper, have a free crit".
@@TKsh1 I don’t know, I’ve found Jarate snipers to get a bit….tunnel visioned when going for that crit. They miss their crit swing and then that allows me to start blasting XD
15:13 I think you're misunderstanding the response, in this case the article talks about urinatING on a fire, obviously 1 stream wouldn't do much. but an entire jar of liquid, be it water or urine, should be enough. The main reason water puts out fire is because it just covers the whole thing and doesn't let it get any oxygen. Urine is the same, it's not flammable so it shouldn't be any different.
Actually water extinguishes a fire due to it cooling it down. It takes a crazy amount of heat to boil water. Just throwing liquid on a fire is pretty bad at keeping oxygen out. A fire needs heat and oxygen. If you reintroduce oxygen without reducing heat then it will reignite after extinguishing it. This is what happens with fire blankets. This doesn’t happen with water, because the water is reducing the heat of the system.
It's hilarious that people complain about the Jarate + Bushwacka combo when Jarate as a support tool, thrown out during team fights, is so ridiculously overpowered.
Honestly, I think the nerf the Ubersaw would need to make it not a must-take-must-use would be like a 10-15% damage vulnerability while active. You can still go in for 25-50% uber, but you're going to have to risk it all in a more direct sense.
what about making the Medic better at a CORE CLASS level by giving alt fire on primary and melee that burst heal? primaries throw medium health packs and give 5% uber, melees is Disciplinary action that gives 20% heal and overheal on 15 econd cooldown
On a side note, I kinda like that shade of blue you gave the mercs on the thumbnail, it would look nice for Blu Yeah, so, the Crosbow is just more fun, getting to long range hits that doo giht damage, or getting that quick life saving hit is amazing
It's certainly a lot easier on the eyes, but likely could impact team recognition from a moment-to-moment standpoint. Just waging. Still, would work cool for a mod.
the tomislav for heavy sjould belong to this group to its so accurate that compared to stock anything wich isent direcktly in your face takes (despite the reduced damage) more dps thanks to the accuaracy and rev up time buffs, even the brass beast wich has a damage bonus deals less damage on most ranges.
I really enjoy how I genuinely use the SMG and Heavy Shotguns (Depending on circumstances, if we've got medics, and on defense, I do use lunchbox items more). Also use the Amputator, but it's not stock so :P
“damage penalty is a buff cause more swings” counterpoint: You’re dead. You can’t pop uber if you died. The ubersaw’s current damage is what allows medic to use the crossbow and survive some close range encounters. A max health penalty would also do good on it.
3:48 The syringe gun's projectiles do NOT travel quickly. At 990 hammer units a second, their speed is between a rocket and an uncharged stickybomb. This is the main reason that the syringe guns are garbage and feel miserable to use.
Good vid overall, but I feel like you threw shotgun Heavy user’s arguments to the wayside and hyperbolised our stance on things. No, the Sandvich isn’t “bad” because it can’t chip Snipers from long-range. The Sandvich is still a borderline busted unlock that’s good in almost every situation. But it just isn’t that fun to me. Shotguns provide Heavy with quite a bit of flexibility. The minigun’s spinup time can mean the difference between life or death when cornered by an enemy, and with the minigun’s initial ramp-up timer, it can mean the enemy can kill you and run away with like 6 health. With the shotgun, you can pump them with burst damage to kill them more reliably. And like I mentioned, it’s just more fun for me. Shotguns allow Heavys to be more flexible and mobile when moving that gear up, and can also allow them to chip Snipers from across the map to potentially throw off their aim, which is quite useful since Sniper is a hard counter to Heavy. And having your minigun as your ONLY source of real damage is just…boring. Yes, it provides uncontested utility to you and your team, but it makes Heavy feel way more one-dimensional than he already is. “Opal”-all though, great video. I wish ALL these weapons were nerfed at some point to not be stock replacements as they are…but of course, we live in this reality where they are.
I agree with this so heavily. I usually use the brass beast whenever playing heavy and you have no idea how helpful either the panic attack or shotgun are while moving to a new position. It basically takes out one of the brass beasts downsides. Having a shotgun doesn't just mean you have to fat scout like Meshric joked about
It kinda seems like you're implying that the Jarate is unique in boosting sentry and afterburn damage, when that's just what any Minicrit source will do? Also the Jarate is easily just a 20 second cooldown buff banner, which is insane even without the bushwacka By all means we should be glad snipers are usually selfish with it.
One thing that would have been hard to mention is how basically every wrench outclasses the stock. The jag and eureka effect specifically are insanely good, and the gunslinger is very powerful in a different way. Uncle Dane has a good video going into the subject
One other upside of the crossbow is that if there’s a massive group of players on a point that you can’t approach safely, pulling out and spamming the crossbow can be a viable choice until it’s more safe to move in. Whoever you hit, you’re helping the team
I think the only change that might make the Ubersaw less of a full on stock replacement would be to reduce the Uber gain from 25% to 20%. That's it, that's the only reasonable change I can think of that wouldn't totally ruin it or be an unintended buff, like you explained
"I dunno. I'm a heavy main. I basically eat crayons." As a scout/medic main, I am legally obliged to tell you you shouldn't eat crayons. I am also legally obliged to tell you the red ones are best.
18:05 I think the Sandwich makes heavy even MORE reliable on Medics, because without a shotgun Heavy is basically defenseless unless he has positioned himself in advance or has a constant stream of healing to mitigate damage during revving up.
With no advanced movement options and easy aim, all of heavys skill should be pointed towards gamesense. A good heavy should almost never be caught in a position where he would prefer having a shotgun over his minigun to deal with an aggressor.
@@FrogInShorts First of all, that' impossible, second of all, that's BORING. The main problem with Heavy as a class is that he is boring, there is an extremely low skill ceiling. Having a shotgun available at all times (you know, how he was initially designed to be) allows him to better and more often position himself properly. If a Heavy without a shotgun goes around the corner and sees and Soldier, it's pretty much over. By the time he revves up he would take 3 rockets in the face. Having a shotgun gives him a small fighting chance and an option to do something aside from just waiting to die.
@@altEFG I'm not saying caught out entirely, just where you're caught out to a degree that revving your minigun is a worse option than using your shotgun. With jump revving corners and knowing the game state, where your team and the enemy is, and managing your own health to leverage plus knowing how much pressure will make the flanker deem you not worth fighting and being able to retreat when they let off. Also with a shotgun if you get jumped by two enemies at once you are certainly dead as you can't target both with your shotgun while the minigun can wipe out multiple people fast enough to save yourself. theres a reason the near entire community doesn't run shotgun at all. (heavy really deserves to be able to run both shotty and sandvich at once tho, cmon valve)
@@FrogInShorts I also feel like every class except Heavy received unlocks that change the entire classes' playstyle for the better without sacrificing as much. Medic has a direct upgrade with the Crossbow. Scout has a number of utility unlocks and giving up a pistol doesn't affect him at all. Demo has shields/boots that give him a ton of versatility. Soldier has banners and Market Gardnerer. Sniper has a jar of piss and melee options that compliment his positioning. Pyro has flareguns that at least as viable option as the shotgun with added utility. You get the gist. Only for Heavy it seems like a choice between a strict utility or being able to move and shoot at the same time. F-U-N.
Counterpoints to the Crossbow being the best Medic primary: 1) you need to be able to aim to use it (easier said than done) & 2) you need to have a team that will help keep you safe. In casual, I still use Blutsauger to protect myself while I retreat. More projectiles + health on hit make it a good choice for outlasting cocky scouts and keeping them out of my face. The self healing penalty is offset for me by using the Amputator in my main loadout (my preferred saw)
15:12 it depends on two things: the type of fire (as to extinguish a fire, you need to either remove the fuel, oxygen, heat, or the chemical reaction from the equation), and the amount of urine available. The problem is that the trope you referenced is actually of *urinating on the fire to put it out*, and we don't produce enough urine to make it an effective option for fire extinguishing. However, the most common mason jar can hold around a half pint (16 OZ. or 473mL), and that could be enough to put out small, localized fires, like your teammates set ablaze. I'd be more worried about all the broken glass, personally.
Mm, the Medic sandwich. A slice of bread, a slice of ham cut straight from the pig with a crit Ubersaw swing, a slice of bologna, a slice of swiss cheese, some lettuce, some tomatoes, a second slice of bread, and a pimento olive stuck into the top slice with a needle filled with human piss. The perfect meal.
2 Things, the second banana recharges faster and u can eat more often and faster. Spy can just on your head and still backstab u. (eating the sandvich ofc)
For the Jarate Section you forgot among the enemies that can't die in one hit from the bushwacka (Bitchwacka) is a demo with 2 heads from the eyelander or it's reskins.
As a sniper I do like the jarate bushwaka however if your sick Of that combo the cleaners carbine smg can give mini crits when charged up and those mini crits will transfer to the. Bushwaka giving you full crits for 8 seconds
For a hypothetical additional downside for the Ubersaw, I've got 2 ideas. Either a -20% damage resistance to make it riskier to swing it around willy nilly akin to the Powerjack, or reduce the length of Uber by 20%, forcing the medic to be more cautious when timing the uber pop.
If they really had to nerf the Ubersaw, the best answer would probably be giving yourself less bullet resistance while it's out, or something along those lines of making medic more fragile while you're holding the funny saw out, encouraging you to end encounters as fast as you can as opposed to farming on oblivious players. Perhaps a health drain similar to the GRU?
I'd like to mention, the Overdose and Blutsauger are much better for when you are using the quickfix because most of the time you won't need the crossbow. Yeah, there are times when you can't reach someone in time, but if you're using the overdose those times are farther apart because with he quick fix, you'll almost always be at high uber. The Amputator is also a solid choice to pair with the quickfix because again, the ubersaw just isn't needed because of how fast you build uber. And hence I like to call the quick fix the Anti-meta weapon.
As far as the last clip showing the vaccinator goes, I think the two biggest changes thay could be made to make it less bs (which I say as someone who likes and enjoys using the vaccinator) is to make it not be able to built uber while the charges are active and to make it so that you can only use a max of 2 resistances at once. Maybe the resistance amount could be dropped from 75 to 65 or 60, but if they did that then maybe they should also reduce the uber gain penalty on overhealed enemies. I think that these changes would make it much more balanced and counterplay focused than it is right now.
I think The Jag belongs here. There’s uses for the other wrenches, but The Jag basically invalidates the stock wrench. Plus to swing speed is literally a buff to everything. The construction speed bonus is also pretty bonkers. It may not be as centralizing in slot due to the uniqueness of other wrenches, but it’s DEFINITELY a stock replacement.
The Ubersaw is only really useful on stock. The quick fix, vaccinator, and kritzkreig all have such a fast charge rate that equipping the Uber saw doesn’t do much. And if you have only one medic on your team then stock and kritz won’t be able to keep the rest of the team alive long enough. Because of this I feel that the amputator is Medic’s best melee, because it can heal multiple teammates faster than any medigun (except the quick fix) could heal one teammates. Also players have an “S” key and a gun will quickly put down an Ubersaw happy medic.
Valve: Spy sholdnt be able to be 102HP sniper at any range, he is shortrange afterall! *nerfs amby* Also Valve : Quickscope headshots 150HP are fine at close range and Jarate+Bushwhacka is no issue
I wish all the syringe guns could shoot a healing bolt with the alternate fire like in Killing Floor, it would make Medic a much more interesting class to play with some choices about unlocks to be made. Yes, the crossbow is strong but it calcifies Medic's choices and I hate it. If the bolt is that integral to Medic's effectiveness just add it as a baseline ability to the class.
The one thing they COULD do is switch the downsides of the Ubersaw and the Vita-Saw. While it wouldn't make the vitasaw much better it would at least make it more manageable and it would make the ubersaw more risky to use.
Jarate: Unless your near spawn you need to commit with what you do with it. But the real problem is when are you near spawn like beginning of Attack Maps or most Defence spawns then you can just spam a debuff and look your demo and pyro deleted the enemy in 5 second due to mini crits damage letting them do more damage at better or safer range.
I'd argue Medic has a third stock replacement in the Vaccinator. A competent Medic using this thing, especially in combination with the Crossbow, makes their entire team including themselves unkillable. It als turns each successful Ubersaw hit into a full charge.
Two things: 1. I think the real problem with the Jarate + Bushwhaka combo is the Bushwhaka itself. There's no damage nerf on it to balance its overwhelming power when the enemy is soaked in Jarate. If its damage was nerfed so that it could still One-shot light-classes, but not kill Pyros and Demomen in one shot would be a good sense of balance for it. 2. The only sensible nerf I could think of for the Übersaw would be to decrease the swing speed more. At most, it's swing speed should be -35%, but I feel like -30% is slightly more reasonable. You'd definitely have to commit more, but the benefits you get are still strong. Either that or lower the Über gained on hit to be +20 instead of +25.
Vaccinator in casual is a Stock replacement, you usually only have 2-3 players on each team that can win 1v1s consistently, not to mention how it makes medic almost immune to sniper. There's a reason it's banned in comp. (I don't even play comp)
When thinking of Ubersaw nerfs, one very interesting change that I haven’t seen brought up anywhere else is causing a slightly slower Uber build rate on the mediguns while equipped. Trading off some proficiency in one field for superior viability in another like the Direct Hit or L’etranger.
Not sure if that's a good idea. It would punish the medic for building uber naturally and force him to get in melee fights to make up for the downside. After all, if you're not hitting someone with the ubersaw, you're just nerfing yourself with the lower build rate. The Vita-saw has the same problem, passive debuffs for medic just don't work very well imo.
I prefer the overdose over the cursaders crossbow because medic usually tends to be in the frontlines where there is heavy fire so being able to retreat to a health pack or spawn when your heal target dies is much more useful than the healing of the crossbow. Sure it keeps them alive longer but the problem is what do you do when your target does die from enough damage or a from a sniper headshot? Now you're in the hottest zone of combat with no plans, if you don't have an Uber say goodbye to what uber you do have.
Preparing to run to healthpacks before fight has even started is a losing strategy. If you can't get out reasonably often then it's a positioning problem, or pocketing problem. You rarely run out of players to heal in 12v12 pubs
The crossbow is an interesting one because it doesn't actually feel overpowered, noone wants to nerf it because they like what it does and that means the other options will always be outshined unless they get buffed to be op and change the point of medic, which isn't to be a fighter. That said it's interesting you mentioned it isn't technically a crossbow. I wonder how it would feel if they removed the passive reload and made the reload a second longer, to both insert a new needle and pull back some kind of pneumatic tube.
8:21 In any fight with any class when you have the crossbow: *Boom your dead, Boom your dead again, Boom, Boom, Boom.* This is why i use the blutsauger so in cause I'm flanked I'm not lackin and at least have a chance to survive.
Ngl the only reason I use any of the smgs on sniper is if I'm using the machina and I'm in a predicament where scooping or getting into melee range for a bushwaka are both suicide
I still think they need to give Medic an upgrade by fixing the syringes from the syringe gun to fire a bit straighter, giving it more range, and also allowing it to heal teammates for a single-digit amount of health per syringe.
The healing syringes thing would be a terrible idea. Just use the medi gun or crossbow for healing. Syringe SMGs should just be a damage and utility option for the medic not another less efficient way to heal people.
Tomislav should be on the list. I always do so much better on heavy with it. More range from the accuracy, and the silent attribute is underrated. Iron bomber has an argument for it as well with its much more consistent roller damage and ability to jump off of them easily as well. Bazaar bargain is the edge case though if you're a 9k hour sniper (which isn't that rare at the end of the day) then it's an upgrade.
The sandwich is only a replacement for the heavy that wants to be the main anchor/tank of the team, which a lot of people believe to be the only correct way to play heavy. And while I do think that it should be your in slot for if you are playing that role, if you wanna play a more roaming play style by or really anything that doesn’t involve having a medic constantly on you, the shotgun should be stock. There’s a reason for it and it’s because it’s better for any other play style other than traditional (not talking about sub classes). How do like 90% of the tf2 player base not see the value of shotgun heavy, it ridiculous.
I always assumed the complaints about Jarate was that it essentially instantly wins a team-fight, similar to the buff banner. But, unlike the banner, instead of having to charge it through damage, you have it basically all the time. Think how broken Buff Banner would be if it charged at respawn.
might get some flak for this but...I honestly never used the Sandvich until the Fists of Steel got nerfed. I think the Banana does its job better, The Dalokhos Bar with its +50 HP is pretty good (also the GRU health glitch) while solo, and Buffalo Steak Sandvich if I have a pocket medic as he is the one getting to eat while I only use it for Fists of Steel rollouts...at least until the aforementioned nerf happened.
jarate should give sniper -25 hp to -75 hp something to put him behind some thresholds like the 100 damage, (close range rockets or meat shots) to the 50 damage threshold: other snipers bodyshotting, they could need some charge to still bodyshot but not a significant amount.)
Surprised you didn't point out the Crusader's Crossbow is also a spy checking tool since it still harms Spies even when they're disguised as teammates. Just another reason why it's THE Medic primary.
Jarate isn't the real problem here, it's the Bushwhaka comboed with it. How to fix it in my eyes though, is odd yet reasonable IMO; change the mini-crit status either a speed down or defense down (if it really needs the feel). I mean, if you were covered in piss, you wouldn't want to move much either. Maybe lessen the cooldown for extinguishing your team as well to add to that support style.
Random hot take: stock and unlockables are equal(sometimes) I mean overall there’s a lot that are equal to stock, a lot weaker than stock and a lot stronger than stock which means it balances out to be overall equal(idk if this is an opinion or objectively wrong either way pls don’t bully I suckkkkkkkkkkk)
![[TF2] Subclass Weapons](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/2anT36U9RMQ/mqdefault.jpg)
![[TF2] Subclass Weapons](/img/tr.png)
![[TF2] Utility Primary Weapons](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/sVQMN1JrrUw/mqdefault.jpg)
![Why [TF2] has (Almost) Perfect Melee Weapons](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/NArb-D-M8aU/mqdefault.jpg)
![Jack Harlow - Hello Miss Johnson [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Q86_nlRoIGw/mqdefault.jpg)
![[TF2] One Kill with Every Weapon](/img/1.gif)
One more great thing about the crossbow is that you will *NEVER* heal enemy spies with it and damage them instead, even under a disguise.
Exactly! As a Medic main I will always instinctively firstly try to shoot a lone teammate with a syringe, even if full-health, just to be sure.
@@rawmaw I once got a random crossbow crit on what I thought was a teammate. Turns out it was a Spy. He died. :P
It's awesome until it costs you "First Do No Harm"
@@royplatt455
Good point. However….
*”Ze healing as not as rewarding as ze hurting.”*
@@redninja0078 Oh, I wanted to hurt someone after that.
Third Degree: What am I, chopped liver? Seriously, the straight upgrade from stock not making it into the stock replacement video is criminal.
Counterargument: the Third Degree *is* a straight upgrade but it's also worse than the Powerjack and Back Scratcher.
Counterpoint: Who actually uses the Third Degree when the Powerjack and Homewrecker exist?
Counterpoint: The stock fire axe sucks and so does the third degree. Pyro does not struggle to damage close range enemies.
Counter: Pyro Mirrormatch @@goshking4331
no it isn't just a direct upgrade it's just stock but with one bath on it everything else is better
"I dunno. I'm a heavy main. I basically eat crayons."
As a soldier main, I too enjoy eating crayons
My favorite flavor is purple
I like blue the best
erm guys I main engineer so that means I love Texas deep fried crayons
As a pyro main, my crayons are melted.
@@Cherno_LadNah a REAL Texan would be eating deep fried butter
@@himynameisyoth yea
“Plus, I own it in real life.”
If you give me a few minutes in the kitchen I can say that too
8:26 one additional point is that the auto reload adds to the crossbows utility since it makes every shot disposable since even if you miss you can just switch back to the medigun and get another shot for later in the fight.
Auto reload has another busted utility function on crossbow: you can use medigun to heal player while crossbow recharges, thus you heal faster than with just crossbow or just medigun.
I wouldn't view it that way, a wasted shot is often converted into a dead teamate in a teamfight.
@Don_Kedic If that is the case then that guys is dead no matter what. The range of HP where a player is unsalvageable when you miss a crossbow and try to change to a medigun is abysmally low. I have saved burning players a couple of times with one digit hp left even when i miss my crossbow, the switch speed is just quick and the healing beam is fast to refill hp. Or if the guy is dead from a rocket or other burst source, chances are the medi beam is not fast enough to heal the guy out of death range anyways. Maybe you can argue against a close up revved up heavy?
@@aereonexapprentice7205 50-150 hp is absolutely fucking massive so I don't know what you are talking about.
Between the two, I'd rather remove/nerf the Bushwacka than the jarate, tho my use of Jarate is usually me throwing it on team fights
Cleaner's carbine + bushwaka is funi tho
Honestly I'd say making the jarate have a minute cooldown or something would work, same for the mad milk. Make these game-shifting items have real downtime.
in that case (throwing it in a teamfight and not using it selfishly) it is essentially a mini buff banner with a cooldown rather than a damage requirement.
i'm not gonna make any opinions about this, just an observation.
@@datonedood3791 it makes me feel useful cause I'm kinda like church in Red vs Blue, I always want to use a sniper rifle, but I can't aim
Yeah I would rather Sniper get his ability to counter his bad match-ups get nerfed over his Support utility.
I hope if Valve ever updates the Sniper they emphasize his Support role. Between Jarate, his infinite range, and keeping a lookout for backline assaults from Spies, Roaming Soldiers, and Scouts, there are times where having a Sniper who has my back is the most stress-relieving feeling I can get in TF2.
22:26 THE BLINDING LIGHT OF GOD
SEE, MY CHILD.
The Crusader's Crossbow is a straight upgrade that somehow it's very fair, the Sandwich is something you need out of necessity (good luck playing Heavy without a Medic), and Jarate is basically "fuck you for even trying to counterplay Sniper, have a free crit".
nice pfp btw!
@@TKsh1 I don’t know, I’ve found Jarate snipers to get a bit….tunnel visioned when going for that crit. They miss their crit swing and then that allows me to start blasting XD
15:13 I think you're misunderstanding the response, in this case the article talks about urinatING on a fire, obviously 1 stream wouldn't do much. but an entire jar of liquid, be it water or urine, should be enough.
The main reason water puts out fire is because it just covers the whole thing and doesn't let it get any oxygen. Urine is the same, it's not flammable so it shouldn't be any different.
Wrong, it’ll smell worse
Actually water extinguishes a fire due to it cooling it down. It takes a crazy amount of heat to boil water. Just throwing liquid on a fire is pretty bad at keeping oxygen out. A fire needs heat and oxygen. If you reintroduce oxygen without reducing heat then it will reignite after extinguishing it. This is what happens with fire blankets. This doesn’t happen with water, because the water is reducing the heat of the system.
Woo! Nice to see you back mate
It's hilarious that people complain about the Jarate + Bushwacka combo when Jarate as a support tool, thrown out during team fights, is so ridiculously overpowered.
Honestly, I think the nerf the Ubersaw would need to make it not a must-take-must-use would be like a 10-15% damage vulnerability while active. You can still go in for 25-50% uber, but you're going to have to risk it all in a more direct sense.
or the more uber you have, the more damage vulnerability you have
Great idea, actually!
what about making the Medic better at a CORE CLASS level by giving alt fire on primary and melee that burst heal? primaries throw medium health packs and give 5% uber, melees is Disciplinary action that gives 20% heal and overheal on 15 econd cooldown
On a side note, I kinda like that shade of blue you gave the mercs on the thumbnail, it would look nice for Blu
Yeah, so, the Crosbow is just more fun, getting to long range hits that doo giht damage, or getting that quick life saving hit is amazing
It's certainly a lot easier on the eyes, but likely could impact team recognition from a moment-to-moment standpoint. Just waging.
Still, would work cool for a mod.
the tomislav for heavy sjould belong to this group to its so accurate that compared to stock anything wich isent direcktly in your face takes (despite the reduced damage) more dps thanks to the accuaracy and rev up time buffs, even the brass beast wich has a damage bonus deals less damage on most ranges.
I really enjoy how I genuinely use the SMG and Heavy Shotguns (Depending on circumstances, if we've got medics, and on defense, I do use lunchbox items more). Also use the Amputator, but it's not stock so :P
its good to have you back after your break!
“damage penalty is a buff cause more swings”
counterpoint: You’re dead. You can’t pop uber if you died. The ubersaw’s current damage is what allows medic to use the crossbow and survive some close range encounters. A max health penalty would also do good on it.
FishStickOnAStick during his teenage years:
I'm 25 lol
Bro, that rabbidluigi clip took me back...
3:48 The syringe gun's projectiles do NOT travel quickly. At 990 hammer units a second, their speed is between a rocket and an uncharged stickybomb. This is the main reason that the syringe guns are garbage and feel miserable to use.
Good vid overall, but I feel like you threw shotgun Heavy user’s arguments to the wayside and hyperbolised our stance on things.
No, the Sandvich isn’t “bad” because it can’t chip Snipers from long-range. The Sandvich is still a borderline busted unlock that’s good in almost every situation.
But it just isn’t that fun to me.
Shotguns provide Heavy with quite a bit of flexibility. The minigun’s spinup time can mean the difference between life or death when cornered by an enemy, and with the minigun’s initial ramp-up timer, it can mean the enemy can kill you and run away with like 6 health. With the shotgun, you can pump them with burst damage to kill them more reliably.
And like I mentioned, it’s just more fun for me. Shotguns allow Heavys to be more flexible and mobile when moving that gear up, and can also allow them to chip Snipers from across the map to potentially throw off their aim, which is quite useful since Sniper is a hard counter to Heavy. And having your minigun as your ONLY source of real damage is just…boring. Yes, it provides uncontested utility to you and your team, but it makes Heavy feel way more one-dimensional than he already is.
“Opal”-all though, great video. I wish ALL these weapons were nerfed at some point to not be stock replacements as they are…but of course, we live in this reality where they are.
No no, you use the shotgun, that HAS to mean you're a fatscout who exclusively avoids his minigun. You just can't use it man.
I agree with this so heavily. I usually use the brass beast whenever playing heavy and you have no idea how helpful either the panic attack or shotgun are while moving to a new position. It basically takes out one of the brass beasts downsides. Having a shotgun doesn't just mean you have to fat scout like Meshric joked about
It kinda seems like you're implying that the Jarate is unique in boosting sentry and afterburn damage, when that's just what any Minicrit source will do?
Also the Jarate is easily just a 20 second cooldown buff banner, which is insane even without the bushwacka
By all means we should be glad snipers are usually selfish with it.
The vitasaw needs a rework in mu opinion.
One thing that would have been hard to mention is how basically every wrench outclasses the stock. The jag and eureka effect specifically are insanely good, and the gunslinger is very powerful in a different way.
Uncle Dane has a good video going into the subject
One other upside of the crossbow is that if there’s a massive group of players on a point that you can’t approach safely, pulling out and spamming the crossbow can be a viable choice until it’s more safe to move in. Whoever you hit, you’re helping the team
This is especially awesome in Medieval mode when everyone is trying to cap C
We’re so back
I think the only change that might make the Ubersaw less of a full on stock replacement would be to reduce the Uber gain from 25% to 20%. That's it, that's the only reasonable change I can think of that wouldn't totally ruin it or be an unintended buff, like you explained
"I'd much rather a F2P game use TF2's unlockable system then some...other games." [UNRELATED FOOTAGE, HONEST]
Nice. XD
Raaahhhhhhhh RBY MENTIONED 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅 some1 has been watching big yellow lol
LEEEEEEEEEETSSSSSSSS FUCKING GOOooOOOooOoOO🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉
BIG YELLOW INFLUENCE SPREADS 🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲🇺🇲
BABE WAKE UP TEAL OPAL DROPPED
ANOTHER banger thunbnail
“Glorious yellow nectar” 💀
"I dunno. I'm a heavy main. I basically eat crayons."
As a scout/medic main, I am legally obliged to tell you you shouldn't eat crayons.
I am also legally obliged to tell you the red ones are best.
18:05
I think the Sandwich makes heavy even MORE reliable on Medics, because without a shotgun Heavy is basically defenseless unless he has positioned himself in advance or has a constant stream of healing to mitigate damage during revving up.
With no advanced movement options and easy aim, all of heavys skill should be pointed towards gamesense. A good heavy should almost never be caught in a position where he would prefer having a shotgun over his minigun to deal with an aggressor.
@@FrogInShorts First of all, that' impossible, second of all, that's BORING. The main problem with Heavy as a class is that he is boring, there is an extremely low skill ceiling. Having a shotgun available at all times (you know, how he was initially designed to be) allows him to better and more often position himself properly. If a Heavy without a shotgun goes around the corner and sees and Soldier, it's pretty much over. By the time he revves up he would take 3 rockets in the face. Having a shotgun gives him a small fighting chance and an option to do something aside from just waiting to die.
@@altEFG I'm not saying caught out entirely, just where you're caught out to a degree that revving your minigun is a worse option than using your shotgun. With jump revving corners and knowing the game state, where your team and the enemy is, and managing your own health to leverage plus knowing how much pressure will make the flanker deem you not worth fighting and being able to retreat when they let off. Also with a shotgun if you get jumped by two enemies at once you are certainly dead as you can't target both with your shotgun while the minigun can wipe out multiple people fast enough to save yourself. theres a reason the near entire community doesn't run shotgun at all. (heavy really deserves to be able to run both shotty and sandvich at once tho, cmon valve)
@@FrogInShorts I also feel like every class except Heavy received unlocks that change the entire classes' playstyle for the better without sacrificing as much.
Medic has a direct upgrade with the Crossbow.
Scout has a number of utility unlocks and giving up a pistol doesn't affect him at all.
Demo has shields/boots that give him a ton of versatility.
Soldier has banners and Market Gardnerer.
Sniper has a jar of piss and melee options that compliment his positioning.
Pyro has flareguns that at least as viable option as the shotgun with added utility.
You get the gist.
Only for Heavy it seems like a choice between a strict utility or being able to move and shoot at the same time. F-U-N.
Counterpoints to the Crossbow being the best Medic primary: 1) you need to be able to aim to use it (easier said than done) & 2) you need to have a team that will help keep you safe. In casual, I still use Blutsauger to protect myself while I retreat.
More projectiles + health on hit make it a good choice for outlasting cocky scouts and keeping them out of my face.
The self healing penalty is offset for me by using the Amputator in my main loadout (my preferred saw)
god i love healing people
15:12 it depends on two things: the type of fire (as to extinguish a fire, you need to either remove the fuel, oxygen, heat, or the chemical reaction from the equation), and the amount of urine available.
The problem is that the trope you referenced is actually of *urinating on the fire to put it out*, and we don't produce enough urine to make it an effective option for fire extinguishing.
However, the most common mason jar can hold around a half pint (16 OZ. or 473mL), and that could be enough to put out small, localized fires, like your teammates set ablaze.
I'd be more worried about all the broken glass, personally.
Alright we must be finished with this series about now.
i like tf2 classic's approach to balancing the ubersaw; -10 max health on wearer
Mm, the Medic sandwich. A slice of bread, a slice of ham cut straight from the pig with a crit Ubersaw swing, a slice of bologna, a slice of swiss cheese, some lettuce, some tomatoes, a second slice of bread, and a pimento olive stuck into the top slice with a needle filled with human piss. The perfect meal.
2 Things, the second banana recharges faster and u can eat more often and faster. Spy can just on your head and still backstab u. (eating the sandvich ofc)
surprised you didnt mention The Third Degree; the ONLY direct upgrade to stock
For the Jarate Section you forgot among the enemies that can't die in one hit from the bushwacka (Bitchwacka) is a demo with 2 heads from the eyelander or it's reskins.
The way to balance the Ubersaw is not to change the weapon itself, but is actually to buff his other saws.
23:30
Amp medics: yes its better but i suck
Saw: its the vest but we suck
As a sniper I do like the jarate bushwaka however if your sick Of that combo the cleaners carbine smg can give mini crits when charged up and those mini crits will transfer to the. Bushwaka giving you full crits for 8 seconds
For a hypothetical additional downside for the Ubersaw, I've got 2 ideas. Either a -20% damage resistance to make it riskier to swing it around willy nilly akin to the Powerjack, or reduce the length of Uber by 20%, forcing the medic to be more cautious when timing the uber pop.
25:07 TF2 classic change the downside to "-10 max HP"
7:18 the sniper was like "wtf doc" 🤣
Medic sandwich is not something i want in my life, thats cannibalism.
How did you spend 8 minutes talking about the crusaders crossbow!?!
If they really had to nerf the Ubersaw, the best answer would probably be giving yourself less bullet resistance while it's out, or something along those lines of making medic more fragile while you're holding the funny saw out, encouraging you to end encounters as fast as you can as opposed to farming on oblivious players. Perhaps a health drain similar to the GRU?
For the übersaw, I'd decrease the über on hit from 25% to 20% at least. So it takes 5 hits instead of 4
My family business took this video personally
tf2 classic has an ubersaw equivalent and it lowers medic's max health to 140
Should I buy a strange sniper rifle chat?
I'd like to mention, the Overdose and Blutsauger are much better for when you are using the quickfix because most of the time you won't need the crossbow. Yeah, there are times when you can't reach someone in time, but if you're using the overdose those times are farther apart because with he quick fix, you'll almost always be at high uber. The Amputator is also a solid choice to pair with the quickfix because again, the ubersaw just isn't needed because of how fast you build uber. And hence I like to call the quick fix the Anti-meta weapon.
As far as the last clip showing the vaccinator goes, I think the two biggest changes thay could be made to make it less bs (which I say as someone who likes and enjoys using the vaccinator) is to make it not be able to built uber while the charges are active and to make it so that you can only use a max of 2 resistances at once. Maybe the resistance amount could be dropped from 75 to 65 or 60, but if they did that then maybe they should also reduce the uber gain penalty on overhealed enemies. I think that these changes would make it much more balanced and counterplay focused than it is right now.
i think the crossbow might classify as an airbow specifically
nice pfp btw!
Playing medic with crossbow is when u can hit your shot on enemy and teammate scouts but u cant heal a heavy that spinning his minigun infront of you.
THE BOY IS BACK
I think The Jag belongs here. There’s uses for the other wrenches, but The Jag basically invalidates the stock wrench. Plus to swing speed is literally a buff to everything. The construction speed bonus is also pretty bonkers. It may not be as centralizing in slot due to the uniqueness of other wrenches, but it’s DEFINITELY a stock replacement.
Surprised you didn't talk about the kunai as it is a straight-up buff to GOOD spies.
The Ubersaw is only really useful on stock. The quick fix, vaccinator, and kritzkreig all have such a fast charge rate that equipping the Uber saw doesn’t do much. And if you have only one medic on your team then stock and kritz won’t be able to keep the rest of the team alive long enough. Because of this I feel that the amputator is Medic’s best melee, because it can heal multiple teammates faster than any medigun (except the quick fix) could heal one teammates. Also players have an “S” key and a gun will quickly put down an Ubersaw happy medic.
Valve: Spy sholdnt be able to be 102HP sniper at any range, he is shortrange afterall! *nerfs amby*
Also Valve : Quickscope headshots 150HP are fine at close range and Jarate+Bushwhacka is no issue
Heavy update: Food items slot 4! Make the second banana default unlock. Close range knock back for all mini guns.
I wish all the syringe guns could shoot a healing bolt with the alternate fire like in Killing Floor, it would make Medic a much more interesting class to play with some choices about unlocks to be made. Yes, the crossbow is strong but it calcifies Medic's choices and I hate it. If the bolt is that integral to Medic's effectiveness just add it as a baseline ability to the class.
The one thing they COULD do is switch the downsides of the Ubersaw and the Vita-Saw. While it wouldn't make the vitasaw much better it would at least make it more manageable and it would make the ubersaw more risky to use.
Jarate: Unless your near spawn you need to commit with what you do with it. But the real problem is when are you near spawn like beginning of Attack Maps or most Defence spawns then you can just spam a debuff and look your demo and pyro deleted the enemy in 5 second due to mini crits damage letting them do more damage at better or safer range.
I'd argue Medic has a third stock replacement in the Vaccinator. A competent Medic using this thing, especially in combination with the Crossbow, makes their entire team including themselves unkillable. It als turns each successful Ubersaw hit into a full charge.
Two things:
1. I think the real problem with the Jarate + Bushwhaka combo is the Bushwhaka itself. There's no damage nerf on it to balance its overwhelming power when the enemy is soaked in Jarate. If its damage was nerfed so that it could still One-shot light-classes, but not kill Pyros and Demomen in one shot would be a good sense of balance for it.
2. The only sensible nerf I could think of for the Übersaw would be to decrease the swing speed more. At most, it's swing speed should be -35%, but I feel like -30% is slightly more reasonable. You'd definitely have to commit more, but the benefits you get are still strong. Either that or lower the Über gained on hit to be +20 instead of +25.
Ubsersaw should give you a small uber build penalty
I never realized jarate was just combination of jar and karate. I always assumed jarate was just another (maybe Australian) worr for piss
Kinda surprised that the Wrangler isn't in the video...
Vaccinator in casual is a Stock replacement, you usually only have 2-3 players on each team that can win 1v1s consistently, not to mention how it makes medic almost immune to sniper. There's a reason it's banned in comp. (I don't even play comp)
When thinking of Ubersaw nerfs, one very interesting change that I haven’t seen brought up anywhere else is causing a slightly slower Uber build rate on the mediguns while equipped. Trading off some proficiency in one field for superior viability in another like the Direct Hit or L’etranger.
Not sure if that's a good idea.
It would punish the medic for building uber naturally and force him to get in melee fights to make up for the downside. After all, if you're not hitting someone with the ubersaw, you're just nerfing yourself with the lower build rate.
The Vita-saw has the same problem, passive debuffs for medic just don't work very well imo.
@@LukieDukieNL that's the point though. different weapons force you to play differently
I prefer the overdose over the cursaders crossbow because medic usually tends to be in the frontlines where there is heavy fire so being able to retreat to a health pack or spawn when your heal target dies is much more useful than the healing of the crossbow. Sure it keeps them alive longer but the problem is what do you do when your target does die from enough damage or a from a sniper headshot? Now you're in the hottest zone of combat with no plans, if you don't have an Uber say goodbye to what uber you do have.
Preparing to run to healthpacks before fight has even started is a losing strategy.
If you can't get out reasonably often then it's a positioning problem, or pocketing problem.
You rarely run out of players to heal in 12v12 pubs
Snipers when I airblast jarate back at them:
The crossbow is an interesting one because it doesn't actually feel overpowered, noone wants to nerf it because they like what it does and that means the other options will always be outshined unless they get buffed to be op and change the point of medic, which isn't to be a fighter. That said it's interesting you mentioned it isn't technically a crossbow. I wonder how it would feel if they removed the passive reload and made the reload a second longer, to both insert a new needle and pull back some kind of pneumatic tube.
Someone else had the idea of adding a healing bolt as an alt fire for all syringe guns
I love seeing more tf2 videos
I think a nerf you could give to the ubersaw would be something like not being able to switch weapons when you miss a saw.
For each hit your Uber rate increases 15% to a maximum of 60% and if you die you lose it, just to screw ubersaw players lol
8:21
In any fight with any class when you have the crossbow: *Boom your dead, Boom your dead again, Boom, Boom, Boom.*
This is why i use the blutsauger so in cause I'm flanked I'm not lackin and at least have a chance to survive.
Sadly then you'll be tickling enemies instead of healing mates who can deal serious damage
Ngl the only reason I use any of the smgs on sniper is if I'm using the machina and I'm in a predicament where scooping or getting into melee range for a bushwaka are both suicide
Blutsager gang rise up 💪🏼⛑️
I like the Jarate because it punishes the flanker for poor flanking. As a scunt, I find it fair and balanced
I still think they need to give Medic an upgrade by fixing the syringes from the syringe gun to fire a bit straighter, giving it more range, and also allowing it to heal teammates for a single-digit amount of health per syringe.
The healing syringes thing would be a terrible idea. Just use the medi gun or crossbow for healing. Syringe SMGs should just be a damage and utility option for the medic not another less efficient way to heal people.
Tomislav should be on the list. I always do so much better on heavy with it. More range from the accuracy, and the silent attribute is underrated.
Iron bomber has an argument for it as well with its much more consistent roller damage and ability to jump off of them easily as well.
Bazaar bargain is the edge case though if you're a 9k hour sniper (which isn't that rare at the end of the day) then it's an upgrade.
The sandwich is only a replacement for the heavy that wants to be the main anchor/tank of the team, which a lot of people believe to be the only correct way to play heavy. And while I do think that it should be your in slot for if you are playing that role, if you wanna play a more roaming play style by or really anything that doesn’t involve having a medic constantly on you, the shotgun should be stock. There’s a reason for it and it’s because it’s better for any other play style other than traditional (not talking about sub classes). How do like 90% of the tf2 player base not see the value of shotgun heavy, it ridiculous.
I always assumed the complaints about Jarate was that it essentially instantly wins a team-fight, similar to the buff banner. But, unlike the banner, instead of having to charge it through damage, you have it basically all the time. Think how broken Buff Banner would be if it charged at respawn.
Unpopular opinion:
I never use the sandwich. I always die before I can use it
might get some flak for this but...I honestly never used the Sandvich until the Fists of Steel got nerfed. I think the Banana does its job better, The Dalokhos Bar with its +50 HP is pretty good (also the GRU health glitch) while solo, and Buffalo Steak Sandvich if I have a pocket medic as he is the one getting to eat while I only use it for Fists of Steel rollouts...at least until the aforementioned nerf happened.
Bro forgot the cloak & dagger.
jarate should give sniper -25 hp to -75 hp
something to put him behind some thresholds like the 100 damage, (close range rockets or meat shots) to the 50 damage threshold: other snipers bodyshotting, they could need some charge to still bodyshot but not a significant amount.)
Surprised you didn't point out the Crusader's Crossbow is also a spy checking tool since it still harms Spies even when they're disguised as teammates. Just another reason why it's THE Medic primary.
Jarate isn't the real problem here, it's the Bushwhaka comboed with it.
How to fix it in my eyes though, is odd yet reasonable IMO; change the mini-crit status either a speed down or defense down (if it really needs the feel). I mean, if you were covered in piss, you wouldn't want to move much either. Maybe lessen the cooldown for extinguishing your team as well to add to that support style.
Wow, i have never hated once opinion so early.... Gg i guess, may the sniper bots know your every step
Random hot take: stock and unlockables are equal(sometimes) I mean overall there’s a lot that are equal to stock, a lot weaker than stock and a lot stronger than stock which means it balances out to be overall equal(idk if this is an opinion or objectively wrong either way pls don’t bully I suckkkkkkkkkkk)
id say the amputator is better then the Ubersaw you can taunt with the amp and heal yourself and teammates that are in a certain distance of you
honestly supersized the wrangler or maybe even the iron bomber weren't mentioned.
As a sniper main I would lowkey argue the bazaar bargain could be on this list