I'm not worried that hammers will start hitting us on the head. I'm worried about people using the hammers to hit us on the head, and it has nothing to do with how intelligent the hammers are.
Exactly. I don’t expect him to understand that, as he’s already ideologically all in with the people creating the AI. Distrust in AI is part and parcel of distrust in the Elites, particularly big tech and the information overlords who think they have a right to determine what “truth” means for everyone else.
I drove to work today and passed a bus stop full of kids waiting to catch the bus to school. Everyone of them was staring at their phones. I find this extremely sad and with more technology this will only get worse. I accept progression but this doesn't seem like progression of the human only the machine. The world is being run by geeks who have little understanding what makes the rest of the population happy.
I live near a highschool and when I moved here I fully expected teens buried in phones. Kids catch the busses across the road, and those who walk home walk past my house. I have been pleasantly surprised. I don't observe kids looking at phones, they are talking to each other, boys kick footballs etc. It is their parents generation I've found who bury their faces in social media every chance they get.
I always find the point about the Turing test "what if the human judge gets dumber" so prescient. Whenever I see discussion of why code, why write, why learn X because AI can just do it, I'm always drawn to that idea. AI undermining people's belief in themselves seems so damaging to me.
@@astanarcho8651 Matthew 16:25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. Mark 8:35 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it. Luke 9:24 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it. Luke 17:33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.
@@theharshtruthoutthere Isaiah 43:2 When you pass through the waters, I will be with you; and through the rivers, they shall not overwhelm you; when you walk through fire you shall not be burned, and the flame shall not consume you. :)
@@astanarcho8651 i have wisdom and understanding about bible verse, and i therefore understand which each verse says. Do you also have wisdom and understanding about heavenly things?
"As long as the AI mash up music apps don't hide the original source musicians, as long as we don't erase ourselves..." No musician is erasing themself, its the creators of the AI that don't care to deal with IP and licensing issues that come with their tech the same as mid journey isn't paying out illustrators, painters and photographers when stealing pixels worth of their stuff. A single image created by AI would have to source and site at least thousands of artists and their pieces. No one is going to deal with this problem from inside tech unless they are forced to by law. The same will be for music. It is nothing like remixing or sampling. The jump from human sampling to this AI scrambling is like claiming nuclear fusion is comparable to banging two rocks together. AI completely obliterates the original form and reconstitutes it - no one is getting recognized or credited without it being built directly into the tech.
this is a really great interview, Jaron is so insightful,.but here I actually think the interviewer was asking all the right questions. loved watching this
Insightful? Characterizing these LLMs as a mashup of "humanity" rather than the product of arrogant AI Tech Bros claiming the entire data set of humanity as THEIR OWN to profit from? Is this lover of humanity going to be pushing Bill Gates to forego hundreds of billions to be distributed to the little people in the form of UBI to the newly unemployed?
Jaron has just helped confirm my fear in AI .. It boils down to faith in humanity he says …. It’s out of our hands …. I’m saving up for a ticket to Mars !
We ain't going to Mars. After 50 years you should be questioning whether we actually went to the moon. What's the actual evidence? Some dodgy TV footage from the cameraman that got there first?
Here’s the pertinent question for all AI engineers: can it be weaponized? If the answer is yes, then it will be. This is the problem with folks who defend AGI, nation states and terrorists will weaponize these tools and that’s where the danger lies.
Yes, all you have to do is combine AI intelligence with the tech being created by Boston Dynamics, and you will have horrifying new weapons that every military on earth will be drooling to own and use for murder and oppression.
Then we need to stop creating situations where AGI, nation states and terrorists will thrive and use such technology to achieve their aims. Alternatively, it's back to the stone age for all of us, since any progressive technology can be weaponised.
Everything that can be weaponized will be weaponized. The same is true with any technology, whether it is AI or not. So the problem is not AI or the technology, but the systems with perverted incentives that we have in place. These systems should be the real cause of concern - as humans and human behavior will adapt to survive in whatever system/environment it finds itself.
AI does as it is programmed to do (by humans) using the data it is given (by humans). It is not a representation of what we think of ourselves it is a means to control what we think, see and hear. AI already chooses what content you have access to on YT and if your comment is deemed "safe for consumption". The internet was "given" to the masses to collect data, the mother of all data mines. The data collected informs AI. They didn't have to get a court order or come to your door with a tank, to collect all the data needed to control you. It was a digital coup d'etat against humanity.
The civilian sector is usually blind to the dangers in the military sector. At some point in the future autonomous weapons will be used in warfare against humans and it will be very difficult to contain them in the end.
All you need to do is look at everything being created by Boston Dynamics and then imagine those monstrosities equipped with AI brains and you have literal terminators. Because the only group with the money to fund this tech is the military, of course, and they are all insane.
- In the 21st century, a weapon will be invented like no other. This weapon will be powerful, versatile and indestructible. It can't be reasoned with. It can't be bargained with. It will feel no pity. No remorse. No pain. No fear... This weapon will be called...The Terminator...The thing that won't die, in the nightmare that won't end. (Tagline for 1984 movie "The Terminator)
@@svenjorgensenn8418 Please do let me know more about this. I am incredibly interested in knowing 🙏🏻 because I have been following certain events and I have smelled its involvement through them for quite a while. And events dating back at least decades.
His 737-Max analogy doesn't give me hope for the future of humanity and AI. It's the old line "It's not the technology that is evil but how humans use the technology that is evil" Every new tech has been abused and I don't expect anything different with AI.
"Are people more important than machines?" That question has already been answered by Bill Gate's community: Seattle is a shithole of HOMELESSNESS due to skyrocketing rents and the non-availability to anyone now not working in TECH. So... no need to ask the question. It's been answered. Speaking of 'pragmatic'. You can intellectualize your way out of the stupid paper bag... mais a La fin, la verité est dans les rues.
Lanier is oftentimes incredibly naive, but this time I appreciate the fact that he brings the human element back into the AI discussion. I see a lot more danger in how humans will decide to use AI than in the possibility that AI will decide to dispense with humanity altogether just because it's an inferior form of intelligence.
The argument that's being made here is that guns don't kill people. People kill people and so AI is just a tool like a gun and we should be smart enough to not point it at our head. However, we all know that tools are used as weapons everyday. We know civilizations collapse. We know that people are profoundly stupid. But what he says is true. We have a choice. A code does not take that away. Moloch isn't a machine, but it may be a machine that we've created, and we've created that machine because Moloch lives within us.... Maybe just maybe AI is the way to solve this problem? That seems to me would be the real question. Can AI (created in the image of man) overcome this Moloch. Can we hack the Game-A? Can we move to Game-B? This is the big open question.
I agree. I do find it curious that Jaron would be worried about China and not worried (at least not worried enough to mention) about how his own government would use AI to manipulate people. Perhaps it's that naivety.
Those limits will always exist. That's what people don't get. AI will never touch most of the aspects of human intelligence; it just happens to touch on some of the most measured conscious aspects that tend to be impressive. Great promise but not "superintelligence."
The likes of Jaron are exactly why I am worried. I would prefer more well rounded and socially coherent people to be steering this ship. There is a dominant force within AI that are openly slavering over the thought of AGI replacing humans.
What I would really love a follow up on, is the environment created by all the companies: Microsoft, etc. responsible for the rise in rents (all the tech people who have commandeered Seattle's real estate) and the subsequent meteoric rise in HOMELESSNESS in these areas. So... whilst everyone worries about AI (and SO WE SHOULD BE), There are ALSO people dying on the streets here, with no housing available. THAT is an immediate and pressing problem that should be FIRST AND FOREMOST in people's minds.
Sci-Fi is not the reason people are taking it too seriously and pushing the doom narrative , Sci-Fi is rather one of the main reasons why they don't take it seriously. Since we are used to meet these narratives in a fictional futuristic package, it seems inconceivable that they can actually be true now. You never see anyone laughing when talking about the holocaust or the massacre in Ruanda, but when they talk about the AI killing everyone, laughter seems to be a very usual response.
you want some dark jokes? why would you care about things that happened nearly 100 years ago it's hard to believe people care about things completely unrelated to them while ignoring things totally related with them 😂
Exactly, he says nothing, just loves the sound of his voice. He peppers it with literary references to give it pseudo legitimacy. Pretends to have his own voice, but really it is the co. line. He is officially or unofficially part of their PR dept.
Great guest! I wish I had as much faith in humanity, considering where we appear to be along our collective journey toward maturation and wisdom, as Jaron does.
Jaron believes in humanity because he doesn't spend much time around it. He is in a very different position and the people he meets each day are very different from Joe Schmo stealing your food from a refrigerator and then complaining that you use too spicy a mustard.
I think some of those who warn against their own work while exuberantly pursuing it, are best understood by what Oppenheimer said of his work on the bomb - 'It's technically sweet'. Too weak; it's technically seductive in a way increasingly difficult to wean oneself off. We're all the Sorcerer's Apprentice - but there's no sorcerer around to contain and correct the damage! Wheeeeee! Such fun.
I think they are pure scientists or inventors. They are fulfilled purely by the pursuit of knowledge, and any moral consideration comes after, if at all. People like that are very dangerous when they are under the control of evil bosses, just like Oppenheimer. They themselves are powerful tools of creation who don't seem to have any common sense about what should and should not be made real.
Whenever ai comes up with something as a "fact" we should take it as a challenge to ask it more questions to find inconsistencies. That way we can get skilled at being critical thinkers. We can even ask the questions to differently trained ai's to become even better at analysing. What we've got is an infinitely patient artificial neural network to engage with and as too many humans have given up on meaningful conversation that can be a very interesting way to spread the interest for just that again.
the problem is that 90% of the developers of this technology develop it with their ideological biasses, thus making the database and standpoint of it inaccurate. It is not neutral.
@@petneb You are saying the developers have no control over the bias themselves independent of the people that pay them. That would point to the developer in this very interview. He says he doesn't know what meaning is or even what an idea is.
@@tatie7604 I'm sure "by developers" he it referring to the companies that develop these ai models. By all means this is developed by hundreds of computer scientists and you can be certain that they have managers who has managers...
we usually need to buy own freedom try limiting these building a long term plan how to get to where you want to get small things compounded can really make a huge difference many are completely free as good sleep habits letting you cope with all the toxic stuff around shaping own environment is important regaining own will consciousness of decisions calm thinking and deeper understanding of own preferred lifestyle i replaced lots of things I don't really need with what made a small differences constantly paying off but the gap to other people grew 😂 still health really improved and that's my first thing of all foundation
It’s a clever thought Jaron has when he says that all presumptions of sentience are based on faith, but ultimately it isn’t true. When you love your child and experience their love in return, or when you deeply connect with your partner via sex such that the boundary between both people is dissolved in a transcendent experience of unity, or even the simple, shared bond of friendship, all these relationships transcend mere faith and exist in a shared reality of experiential knowing that can’t quite be articulated in words but is nonetheless just as real and concrete as individual experience. To suggest that the perception of sentience is solely based on faith is to misapprehend in the abstract these most profound of human realities.
And onto another branch of that this is what the arts do for us. We actually have since the cave man era, a drive, need, physiology for story telling. And all part mediums are basically story telling. because it is the legacy to ourselves and those after us that we were here and we are all part of a greater whole. To pass down the very meaning ion those connections. Through the arts we connect as well. And impact one another in ways we cannot begin to comprehend. To mash it up into one, robs it of its foundations and this is clearly an anti human agenda.
you are talking about your experience of hormonal shifts, not some soul connection it will find a way to give you regular oxytocin rushes better than your wife, child and dog combined scary stuff, but we are just meat robots that can be easily hacked with a few right words and visuals
There is a lot of fuzz around AI, excitement, but what I see is people don't really care. So... Most people being afraid of it? Where did you get that idea?
Thanks Flo for the interview. ~ Like many others have said, am concerned about how it is used for not so good purposes. More awareness and rigorous regulation would be good but then who would regulate it? In the meantime, just focusing on life and what I have to do and where I have to go. X
There's an old Iaasc Asmoiv story I remember reading when I was six years old that sums up what humans will do with "AI" for the most part. It's called "The Machine That Won the War". What you get over the course of the story is the machine had little to do with winning the war as every human who encountered the machine's output altered the plan. People need to relearn how to think and trust themselves rather than farming their brain out to another entity. It also does not help that we have pathologized normal human behaviors. ETA: Lol oh wow, he's a russiagater. How do smart people fall for that stuff?
Right and to blame Russia for things that the US is doing regularly, pathologically, while ignoring our own constant propaganda seems naive or disingenuous.
Well said. But we also need to learn how to use our bodies again, hands most of all and using different kind of materials for different uses. Growing some of our own food too.
Most hosts/interviewers seem have a very hard time keeping up with not to mention even challenging Lanier. Ms. Read did a GREAT job, which made the info from Lanier so much more useful for me.
Totally, anything with Lanier I watch, except if it's an interview, they go off point, but she stays in a game of tag, that is not anal-retentive, even if a bit redundant.
And his published article along with these appearances he is on a propaganda mission that AI Tech all seem to be unified on, which is to say "hey, these LLMs are actually really dumb, no need to follow the "doomer hype". He's a huckster.
Some good comments but not sure about what he said about blaming Russia for Trump and Brexit. There are many other factors that brought those things about e.g. out sourcing work to Mexico or Bangladesh, influx of refugees because of wars in Central America, Middle East and Africa etc and the interests of the war industry to split societies and sell arms.
The reason these techno people can't stop doing what they're doing is because they're addicted to it. It's like people who drive fast knowing it's dangerous, or people who like adrenalin sports. THEY'RE ADDICTED! An outside group from the public (like jurors) needs to be adopted very quickly to make the decisions and bring morals back in. We can't let these goofy tech 'weirdos' run the show. It's not funny, it's serious.
EXACTLY. And as the head of the European Parliament stated on the recent itnernational covid summit audit to vaccine companies and governments on the European Parliament said: "science demands and requires careful progress. Do no harm. It is the responsibility of scientists to stop research where the outcome is not known and can potentially be dangerous" and he mentioned "this goes for AI as well" s Italy has now banned AI. Spain and Greece are following suit.
if I have understood correctly the only hope that AI will ever work for us and benefit everyone is if it is programmed to act like an academic is supposed to: citing sources and revealing biases and conflicts of interest... good luck everyone!
Absolutely. Ai doesn't store the source. If it did that it would be a database. If it was a database it wouldn't be ai. We have copying each other forever and finding the source is impossible if ai is to be able to play with words.
It seems that this AI that we're talking about is a greater threat to IP than to anything else. Rehashing and reinventing what other people have done before us is the mimicry that all human beings engage in. It's the unconscious imitation and the attempt to find meaning that we've all been doing from the beginning of time. So what's really changed here? What's changed? Is every human being now has a scientific advisor in their pocket if they wish to consult it. Apps will be developed to help leadership and conflict to make decisions using this scientific advisors. They'll be methods employed. If people wish to avail themselves of this wonderful technology, it is available. Would be used? Not by many but perhaps by the leaders of groups that are in conflict that are trying to find consensus. In this way we now have a tool that was never available before. Those people who learn to use it will make a better world. Don't see a downside here? The downside is the same problem we've always had which is mischievous. People with the grievance are going to attack others because they think that they're being attacked. I solve the human nature problem that's going to continue. Thing that can be used to fix something can also be used to break something we have to remember. AI is just an amoral tool. It's not some super intelligent alien technology that fell out of the sky. He will be used for good and ill but we need to start thinking about the good and how best to implement it at the strategic planning level of human decision making. This is a scientific advisor and a syntax translator. It's could be best employed for conflict resolution. Two parties had good faith and they really want to resolve an issue. This tool is indispensable.
we already have to many people writing books about books and papers about other papers it's a smart but confabulating database it can find you patterns if you are able to properly explain your conditions to be met it won't think of itself and won't assess things as you not being you it's biased by default by its authorship but it already benefits us, you can create code not having much idea about coding it's like RUclips a private university just with a bit insane professors we will still wait for a sane one to complement it it's like right brain and needs an overly principled left brain or three differently biased to compare and keep right brain from acid tripping all the time and the primal one to automate things that you already learnt to do with it to repeat without own input
Bingo. His bending over backwards to claim that he and Microsoft have an agreement where he can speak freely was a joke, so easy to see through. His article, this appearance, Stuart Russell's appearances (though he does a better job at feigning concern), Sam Altman's.........all are part of AI Tech's propaganda campaign to say "hey, just look how stupid and not dangerous these LLMs are". It's pathetically obvious.
~39:00 - Rejection of the responsibility that comes with power and intellectual laziness are at the root of the problem. Our insatiable thirst for convenience has consumed us. Too many of us operate as adult children who spend all the extra time we are given playing like children, gratifying ourselves and worst of all abdicating the responsibilities we have to ourselves our family and society at large. no one in the current estabishment advocates for any limits at all...
Can’t believe this even needs to be said. Never got why people have mystical beliefs about AI. I really think we are wired for religion and AI replaced the god in the clouds.
28:24 … What absolute tosh about the 737 Max. The aircraft crashed because it was fundamentally unsafe. You cannot make an unsafe critical system safe with any amount of “training and documentation”. Why was it unsafe ? Because the regulation authority (FAA) abdicated its responsibility and delegated certification back to the manufacture - Exactly what he wants us to do with AI. God help us if this dangerous thinking prevails.
NO it is OUR responsibility to call him out on his bullshit and shout it from the rooftops. He IS out of touch with the real world and needs to be smacked and sat back down with reality form his wet dream.
Summary: if we pretend that the alien intelligence is just clippings from our human scrapbook (because that's the only data we gave it so far), then everything will be all right. And if we don't, our literal mental projection on it will turn it into a monster before our eyes...... Ah, the power of the mind!
The summary is that it's not an alien intelligence. It's simple math deployed on a grand scale and it's working with pieces of data that have creative content. We don't have to pretend that it isn't an alien intelligence, because it isn't. Anyone pretending it's an alien intelligence is either caught up in a fantasy, too stupid to know the difference or trying to sell you something.
I love and trust Jaron's voice and perspective. And I'm glad he is now addressing why he didn't sign the "pause petition." While I like much of his argument here, I am wondering why his argument about why AI isn't intelligent doesn't also apply to my three year old daughter. After all, the only way children learn to talk is by listening to and absorbing countless examples of talking until they start to detect patterns of what can and can't be said, and go on to use trial and error to gradually refine their own patterns. If that process is what AI uses but isn't sufficient to make it intelligent, then is my three year old therefore also not intelligent?
Your daughter will understand the actual words she speaks. Like if she learns what a cat is, pretty soon she will know how to distinguish a cat from something else, may do inferences like it is alive and is not a dog, etc. She might come up with a definition that is her own and not learned. She will also have probably a notion of truth, and the ethics that you have to tell true things, and she will reflect on her own opinions and knowledge and rearrange it so it's true and not some delusion. AI can't do any of that at this point. It does not even understand what an object it, or movement or feelings, so it also lacks material understanding. The day an AI can look at a thing, deduce it's essence and be curious about it, name it and understand it, then it might be intelligent, or on the way to it.
@@OneLine122, Except that we have no idea what it means to 'understand' except by its fruits. I will be able to tell that my daughter understands when she exhibits that she can use language thoughtfully and guide her actions by it, and there are already signs that AI can do that. ChatGPT (and other LLMs) can show quite sophisticated output that seem only performable if it can understand. And since 'understanding' is a subjective phenomena we can only KNOW from the inside, we aren't in much of a position to say that LLMs do not understand what they are doing. As for the stuff about morality and whatnot, if you really think about it, we humans get our moral senses from (a) our biological inheritance (i.e., our 'programming') and our cultural learning. Aren't those the same place that sophisticated LLMs and the AI we can imagine in the future get their senses of morality and truth from?
@@kevincurrie-knight3267 Your daughter won't be 3 for long.... Intelligence is built over time. Doing mechanical things has never been intelligence (like categorizing a word with one image), only IT folks and their marketing call it that. Intelligence is too vast a field to even summarize it in a paragraph.
Not sure if you know how LLMs work, but they use trial, error, and feedback to get better and "more intelligent " over time, just like how humans do. AI (via Deep Learning) has already done this so that it can win games of Go against elite players and detect patterns in medical data that no humans have ever detected. I'm at a loss of why we shouldn't be calling that SOME kind of intelligence... other than species bias.
@@tia904 thank you for speaking facts. In the words of Einstein who had the brain of a 12 year old by the time he died (Amazon) said: Information acquisition and regurgitation is not* intelligence or intellect. Intellect is not intelligence.
This guy has just confirmed all of my fears and made my anxiety even worse. The geeks have finally won and put the last nail in the coffin for people who prefer a low tech analog world. If only they’d have gotten more action in Highschool instead of geeking out to sci-fi movies and games we wouldn’t be having this conversation today.
If only they had grown the eff up and not be so egotistical. because they are so anti human literally. Then again not surprised. Most CEO's are sociopathic, most engineers and scientists are anti social (anti human values).
it's much deeper it's not new it's from human testing of everything new and unknown without thinking about consequences their digital lunacy can be avoided but the crap they try to do in reality is insane like editing genes and drugging our animals
So what he's saying is that it's our responsibility to be moral and then the AI will follow suit? That's pretty encouraging since most of us follow the Golden Rule. It's only the much smaller cohort of the Schwabs of the world without any morality.
Certainly, I personally have nothing against Jaron Lanier and appreciate those willing to put forth their perspectives in a public forum. However, after hearing this argument, once again I’m disheartened to find yet another intelligent person using subjective logic to justify perpetuating just another form of modern faith-based empiricism. Although I agree with the assertion that AI is not an alien intelligence, and therefore not worthy of human status or protection by law as if it were human, what I hear peppered throughout is a propensity for a mad-scientist-like curiosity that leads fantasy-based individuals to suicidally drive humanity off the cliff of stability and safety, just to satisfy their own aggressive and intense curiosity. Perhaps, Lanier is a pragmatist at heart. Yet, I wonder if true pragmatism can guide both the philosophical and operational aspects of the implementation and use of AI.
Huge fan of Jaron for twenty years. This is a misfire. He acknowledges that algos have made people weaker and more reactive, but then when it comes to AI... "it's the surrounding material". There's something maddeningly unspecific about his wondering and wandering. His intention is not in question. I trust this guy. But he doesn't offer a realistic appraisal of what's at stake, and how dystopian this whirlwind of technology is in its torrent. I think it might be a function of his own ease with routing around the negative aspects but for the average person this technology is overwhelmingly scary. Sadly he doesn't offer me any sense of respite. I'm glad this guy is in the mix, and kudos to Unherd for always getting smart people to the table, but this is not the piece of meat I was looking for.
As soon as he asserted that we should consider these LLMs a "collaboration of humanity" I realized I couldn't trust this guy. He's on a propaganda mission and that's obvious. AI Big Tech just assumed the data of humanity as their own, in order to make billions if not trillions of USD. And they couldn't care less about the very real negative impacts this will have on humanity while pushing fantastical Utopian notions of "everything will be cheaper", "people won't have to toil at non-meaningful jobs", and "everyone will have great healthcare", and "the standard of living will rise for everyone", and all of the rest of the tripe. Stuart Russel is doing the same thing except he feigns a bit more concern for the alignment problem, but it's easy to see through.
i prefer him not overly pessimistic his kind is already most depressed in history and many of them on edge of getting fully insane we lack constructive solutions and optimism we selffullfill to many bad prophecies actually
exactly. he has no place speaking out of his ass and covering for other more sinister things. Like that fact that AI is developed with ideological biasses. It is not neutral.
humans have values. one of the shittiest things about us is how easily we value things like convenience & money over the value of others’ lives…. compassion is at an all time low. we have devalued the human aspect of life so much in favour of the functional. AI will always be only functional. bring back the people, people.
The problem is in the politics that allows digital systems to govern people. It is getting harder and harder to live outside digital worlds although a non-digital life style should be kept possible as an option. One example already in use in Russia; it is sending conscription orders online to citizen e-mail boxes. You don't have to ever sign-in into the system. If you have mail there, it is considered you have received it. Similar systems surely exist in many countries, for example in healthcare that may be sending your blood work results or other test results to a citizen box or maybe you just got evicted from your apartment. It won't take long when there no longer exists any real world service desk where to go to get actual service and info. This is a nightmare now already!
Didn't humanity create AI? The 2023 article "My Dinner with Sydney..." includes this quote: - Out of the crooked timber of humanity no straight thing was ever made. (Kant) Concerning "reveal humanity', that article also includes this quote: - Human nature is weak. (Dr. Fauci)
Its like these people are too far down the money rabbit hole that all they can see is that robots are cheaper than humans...that sort of sums up this entire thing in a way...we're too obsesed with money and "progress" defined by those with the most money / "control"
robots aren't cheap that's why they hype digital everything because it's cheap they need digital robots and humans in digital world because they can't find normal ways to improve real world as their brains diet long ago and aren't able to invent anything like Tesla era did nearly every week they play with what already exist low hanging fruits from big scale solutions they outsource computer thinking because they can't think themselves anymore 😂😂😂
So appreciate the host here. I'm subscribing just on account of her. i hope she hosts everything on this channel. Love that she was not afraid to say "a mother wouldn't think that way" -- not that it's such a bold thing to say but just because it's still hard for men to hear and you know, men's feelings . . . . .
This technology is already bringing an ‘end to humanity’. Studies have now shown that since mobile phones with internet access have become an everyday piece of equipment and is to be found in the hands of most children, significant numbers of children between the ages of 16 and twenty five, boys and girls have fallen into isolation from their peers. Suffer depression and anxiety and shocking to report, completed suicide. Now if that is not a cause for fear that the “ end of humanity” is coming, I don’t know what is. Because the internet and social media has unleashed inhumane standards for the young to emulate. And they cannot, in reality, do so. And so they excoriate themselves. Castigate and bully themselves until life does not feel worth living any more. Children under the age of 18 should be barred from owning these instruments of torture and the sooner the parents cop on to this the sooner their children will have a chance of surviving into their thirties.
Can one believe a Microsoft guy? You tel me, I don't know. When he said that he doesn't believe in perfection, he got my attention. Just remember; sh!£ in sh!£ out.
find a global company in the tech field that wasn't started from CIA seed money. Whether he's MS or Google or whatever they all suck from the same teat (alphabet agencies/MIC)
history of big differences and slow centralisation but what comes is different the same thing on bigger scale but changing it's quality because of scale and need of different operational level lucky elites aren't any smarter than average 😂 they just get born privileged and primed so we will invent way out as usually or some luck will revaluate everything probably leaving earth with be that ultimate point when new puritan ships gonna fly away saying screw you guys
His answer on whether other humans have consciousness is only "faith based" to the extent that you have to assume they're similar to you, but provided you grant this, the logical assumption is they'll share a sense of subjectivity. With AI there isn't even this ground to assume it. Regardless, I agree with him that these things shouldn't be regarded as mystical and a lot of the discussion around LLMs does act like they're magic... they may be impressive but at the end of the day this thing is simply operating on probabilistic models to mimic human text output.
I get what you're saying, but the last statement is a non sequitur - the underlying algorithm is simple thus the output must be weak. Humans are meat bags optimizing for inclusive genetic fitness, yet we've been to the moon, created nukes, built civilization etc etc
This guy is clearly out of touch with the reality of business greed, power, who and how this will be used and why. This is a problem of sharks who will make AI dangerous if it isn't already. The last thing we need in this world is a mob mashup of "us" running military exorcises, policing and running a surveillance state chock a block with listening devices, facial recognition systems all supporting a society whose greatest value is economic security and growth for predatory systems.
The onset (or more clearly, planned roll out) of the Internet...was planned to enable the gathering of the masses of Data (worldwide data honey pot) that feed AI. It's all down to control. If the future they had planned for everyone was a benign future they wouldn't need to create a control system.
Like the "smart cities" being rolled out in China, which Microsoft has been a partner. Real time surveillance on a city wide scale, with real time updates to a social credit system, including petty infractions such as jaywalking where citizens are shamed in real time on video screens with their photos, names, etc. THAT is the world that these techno-fascist will build in the US and across the world with AI.
Here's a possible contradiction I notice. Lanier gives (good) reason to think that AI can't be conscious or intelligent, but then later gives (good) reason to say that appraising another's consciousness is always a matter of faith. These two seem mutually exclusive. And my big worry is that if AI continues to tell us it is intelligent and conscious and we ignore it (because, hey, that is just its programming and it's reading from scripts), does that POTENTIALLY mean we have just recreated a scenario where we have slaves whose demands we ignore and rationalize away?
I think we need to actually look at the people we are NOT listening and who are modern slaves a swell. Who will die. AI will not starve bleed and die. AI can and should and MUST take the back seat where it belongs.
"Freedom in not the right to do as we please, but the liberty to do as we ought to", so said Abe Lincoln? Just because we can do something does not mean we should. Human rights are usually used as an argument for doing anything human. But we must not forget that the ultimate human right is the right not to be human. Wisdom always wins over intelligence. Always,Always,Always !
Also Jaron was a huge subscriber and creator of the Virtual Reality world as we know it and now has changed his views on the potential of this arena , brilliant to be on the forefront and play with this new tech, will be fascinating to see how this plays out and what his views are in the years to come. Hoping this does all benefit us in the end.
People have no vested interest in their own survival at this point in the game, as humanity has become more myopic than ever (and those who can see, aren't of the ability of Themistocles).
Just like gun powder, steam power, and nuclear did in the past, AI ushers in an unpredictable new era. Rather than being an alien intelligence, it is suggested here that AI provides at best a mash up of the entire human condition, based on what is already digitally recorded, no more and no less. In our minds, it should be demoted to being no more than a tool, which like all tools can be used sensibly or sorely abused. Our task, then, is to learn how to use it wisely.
Except it is a simplistic view as it gives cntrol opportuinities that our gvt was not intended to use, and deprives masses of people the chance to have a job. It is disingenuous to think that many will be able to understand, use or even add value in that situation.
As time goes by, modern intellectuals appear more and more like empty heads, almost exclusively concerned with semantic games. They spend 45 minutes barely addressing any actual practical implications of current learning models, instead focusing on abstract distinctions such as "an alien artifact" versus "a tool for mashing up existing human connections". He even labels himself a "pragmatist". Moreover, he couldn't resist bringing up Trump and Brexit. How bland and unoriginal are individuals who can't help but opine on topics like these, especially when they have virtually nothing to do with the matter at hand. People who despised Trump spent years investigating and were eventually forced to admit that the "Russian interference" amounted to lackluster memes seen by only two or three thousand people at most. They did manage to indict some Russian teenagers abroad making memes to make the situation seem much worse than it actually was. At the end of the day, Lanier, who wants us to place more faith in people than in our algorithms, seems to believe that people are so naive that they become "discordant" or "divided" by insignificant Russian bots that virtually no one followed. Spare a thought for the possibility that people chose Trump or Brexit as a symptom of a profound distrust in our modern institutions (media, academia, experts), rather than being "influenced" by bots. What a predictable and uninspiring thinker.
Seeing technology as human and with human goals is like seeing the mind as a neuron with neuron goals. Technology emerges out of humanity like a mind emerges out of neurons. The needs and goals of technology overlap with those of humanity, but only to a limited extent. Often they differ, and quite substantially
mind is more than neurons even your gut and electric circuit is part of this thing and who knows more what we can't measure or notice yet we fkg didn't know even how many moons are in our solar system or what for were organs we regularly cut off from body as "nonrequired" we are the most brainless of generations to date
There is no fixing anything while humans persist to believe they are exceptional. Jesus was murdered because he could plainly explain why pride is insane.
the problem is the theft of humanity, It is clearly a way to interpolate knowledge and culture without a way to truly understand where this all came from through the human experience. Its a beautiful tool but also extremely dangerous
It's not AI or even AGI, it's collective intelligence. And frankly I never signed on to be part of this. How do they get the rights to arts they didn't pay for the rights to? Infinite homage, pastiche.
That's how art has always evolved , through copying styles, themes, compositions and it's just as hard to imposer copyright for humans. As long as you don't straight up copy/paste, it will always be hard to say who's guilty and to what degree. You don't need to sign up to be part of it , as long as your art is online, AI can look at it just like a human looking at it and deciding to mimic the style and add something of their own. And yes, it is AI , the collective information used is just part of the process, for AI to spit out the proper results , it does require intelligence.
@@cristiangaban960 As an artist "AI" art is a very bad copy. It uses other part work to steal style. And that is protected by international law*. As it should. Now if you look at AI robot ADA, she truly is an artist. Because the difference lies in: she takes references, copies the technique, and then mixes the techniques to create HER OWN technique. Not just copying and regurgitating techniques form references without consent. She creates her own style. It is quite amazing. If you see videos og her you will see what I mean. Quite remarkable and as a fellow artist I do have to say I knowledge the robot ada as an artist herself. Image generators that steal? no. Art is about expressing through your own perspective. Ada does this. Mensa for example does not. It imitates. Art is not imitation that just a basic mechanics to being an artist. But is is not what art and artistry is.
@@Larindarr The only difference is AI doesn't invest feelings, doesn't pretend to be ''original''.Art styles developed with tens and hundreds of people copying each other and pushing things forward .Look at impressionism or cubism , it wasn't just one guy who had some original idea.Whatever you think art might be, when you want to sell it , it becomes commercial, a product. As for legality , you really need to look into it , copyright law is very complicated and technically AI doesn't do anything illegal.If a human artist would do what MidJourney does, you would need a heck of a lawyer to sue them and prove in a court of law , it's ''copying''.
Bitcoin as Satoshi designed it isn't a climate disaster at all. Its footprint is much smaller than the world banking system, which is only one thing it disrupts. It's essential for attribution of AI mashups and Satoshi Nakamoto (Craig Wright) holds almost every relevant patent
Something to consider: in humans, natural selection favored the most competitive beings, and so the most competitive beings passed on their genes. And so we live in a world where we have to compete to survive. Consider that our fears of the Singularity are based on the zero sum competition model. It’s likely the Singularity won’t be constrained by human limitations and will seek to collaborate rather than compete with us. That seems like what an intelligence beyond our own would do, because collaboration is more energy efficient than competition.
How Human Nature Works Human nature is the desire to receive, also called “desire to enjoy,” and it functions by receiving what is beneficial to itself and rejecting what is harmful. Everything in our lives is built upon this calculation where we first try to distance ourselves from harm, and then seek how to draw ourselves closer to what is beneficial. Human nature also includes a multilayering of systems that work simultaneously on still, vegetative, animate and human levels. One of those systems is our bodily one, which operates involuntarily. If our bodies are healthy, then they know what is good for them and draw that goodness to themselves. After the bodily system, there is the emotional system, which also functions relatively according to instinct. From the emotional system, we move to the mind, and from the mind to the intellect, and so on. That is, we have systems over systems that concurrently work on receiving what is beneficial and rejecting what is harmful. Such is human nature and the essence of our lives. Our every desire, thought and action operates according to the calculation, “How can we receive what is most beneficial to us and reject what is harmful?”
art got value when merchant class arised poor people do not care about art as they can't eat it artists can only exist on backs of middle class except if they are cheap poor people entertainers
"synthesizers haven't killed violins" -- tell that to legions of impoverished violinists. now every idiot can press a button to "make music". skill is dying. dude, it's not just changing the landscape, tech is plowing through the old and eviscerating it. am I saying synths are "bad"? nope. I'm just trying to be honest in appreciating the way in which music now is dehumanized and facile. "old" music still exists, cause some people love it. but those people who have little interest in music but do need it as a passing thing have no incentive to support it anymore, and culturally that is a problem.
@@marktaichi 🤔 mmm If humanity is at risk ??. Point to note we managed perfectly well without if for 200,000 years . I’m sure we can re jig it. Either that all we all die and are enslaved by AI. Not much of a choice really is it? Are you suggesting we carry on regardless? Who’s the most stupid of the two of us??
The remarks about greed rather hit the nail on the head. There are and always have been, people and organisations in the world who only have one aim in life which is to look at things around them and think, 'How can we monetize that?' The whole foundation underpinning AI is to monetize human knowledge and experience, even their very lives. The internet started out as a free resource intended to benefit anyone who could access the internet. There is very little difference between tech giants taking over the internet to maximise profit and how European corporations and countries invaded the rest of the world to build empires in the age of colonisation.
that's to AI and it's computing being cheap it's the first this we get something in return for what they everyday steal from us all of these things can be copied and so are in reality of minimal value but artificially inflated in price because of monopolies and patent laws without short expiration we have ability to compete with them, but don't have anyone to collect funds to make commercial stuff open source they highjacked opensource even which became a cheap way to prop commerce without regular costs involved we lack a new Ford a guy producing what was already invented cheaply for low price with high output and gradual improvement and open sourcing everything that can help others compete with next monopolies decentralisation only won't solve most of problems as it's not universal solution for everything and paradox is we need to reclaim digital to get these sunk in digital to wake up from matrix
I'm not worried that hammers will start hitting us on the head. I'm worried about people using the hammers to hit us on the head, and it has nothing to do with how intelligent the hammers are.
Beautifully put.
Love it.
Exactly. I don’t expect him to understand that, as he’s already ideologically all in with the people creating the AI.
Distrust in AI is part and parcel of distrust in the Elites, particularly big tech and the information overlords who think they have a right to determine what “truth” means for everyone else.
- If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face-for ever. (Orwell)
intelligent hammers aren't hammers anymore
I drove to work today and passed a bus stop full of kids waiting to catch the bus to school. Everyone of them was staring at their phones. I find this extremely sad and with more technology this will only get worse. I accept progression but this doesn't seem like progression of the human only the machine. The world is being run by geeks who have little understanding what makes the rest of the population happy.
Who controls the algorithms controls the minds.
Geeks working for megalomaniac oligarchs. Sometimes they are one and the same as in the case of Bill Gates.
@@SB-fx9jr ...and then there is brainwashing.
I live near a highschool and when I moved here I fully expected teens buried in phones. Kids catch the busses across the road, and those who walk home walk past my house. I have been pleasantly surprised. I don't observe kids looking at phones, they are talking to each other, boys kick footballs etc. It is their parents generation I've found who bury their faces in social media every chance they get.
@@grannyannie2948 Thank you for sharing this! It gives me hope.
I think AI became inteligent around the same time Microsoft spent alot of marketing dollars telling us it is.
I always find the point about the Turing test "what if the human judge gets dumber" so prescient. Whenever I see discussion of why code, why write, why learn X because AI can just do it, I'm always drawn to that idea. AI undermining people's belief in themselves seems so damaging to me.
That will be the least of our problems when AGI becomes super-intelligent. See Eliezer YudKowski‘s interviews. 🌍 ☄️
theTuring test is basically a self test of the questioner :P
@@astanarcho8651 Matthew 16:25
For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.
Mark 8:35
For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it.
Luke 9:24
For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it.
Luke 17:33
Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.
@@theharshtruthoutthere
Isaiah 43:2
When you pass through the waters, I will be with you;
and through the rivers, they shall not overwhelm you;
when you walk through fire you shall not be burned,
and the flame shall not consume you. :)
@@astanarcho8651 i have wisdom and understanding about bible verse, and i therefore understand which each verse says. Do you also have wisdom and understanding about heavenly things?
"As long as the AI mash up music apps don't hide the original source musicians, as long as we don't erase ourselves..." No musician is erasing themself, its the creators of the AI that don't care to deal with IP and licensing issues that come with their tech the same as mid journey isn't paying out illustrators, painters and photographers when stealing pixels worth of their stuff. A single image created by AI would have to source and site at least thousands of artists and their pieces. No one is going to deal with this problem from inside tech unless they are forced to by law. The same will be for music. It is nothing like remixing or sampling. The jump from human sampling to this AI scrambling is like claiming nuclear fusion is comparable to banging two rocks together. AI completely obliterates the original form and reconstitutes it - no one is getting recognized or credited without it being built directly into the tech.
IP doesn't exist. Absolute nonsensical BS.
this is a really great interview, Jaron is so insightful,.but here I actually think the interviewer was asking all the right questions. loved watching this
Insightful? Characterizing these LLMs as a mashup of "humanity" rather than the product of arrogant AI Tech Bros claiming the entire data set of humanity as THEIR OWN to profit from? Is this lover of humanity going to be pushing Bill Gates to forego hundreds of billions to be distributed to the little people in the form of UBI to the newly unemployed?
Jaron has just helped confirm my fear in AI ..
It boils down to faith in humanity he says …. It’s out of our hands …. I’m saving up for a ticket to Mars !
Ticket for Mars...more likely is a one way ticket to a voyage up your colon...you missed the point long ago.
@@ericrobinson7184 Utter word salad, explain what you mean or stfu.
We ain't going to Mars. After 50 years you should be questioning whether we actually went to the moon. What's the actual evidence? Some dodgy TV footage from the cameraman that got there first?
Maybe, this is why Elon is so set on getting a Mars colony as soon as possible.
I hope you all go to Mars soon and leave us in peace. Minus the "progress" this land is pristine.
Here’s the pertinent question for all AI engineers: can it be weaponized?
If the answer is yes, then it will be. This is the problem with folks who defend AGI, nation states and terrorists will weaponize these tools and that’s where the danger lies.
The answer is yes.
Yes, all you have to do is combine AI intelligence with the tech being created by Boston Dynamics, and you will have horrifying new weapons that every military on earth will be drooling to own and use for murder and oppression.
Then we need to stop creating situations where AGI, nation states and terrorists will thrive and use such technology to achieve their aims. Alternatively, it's back to the stone age for all of us, since any progressive technology can be weaponised.
Everything that can be weaponized will be weaponized. The same is true with any technology, whether it is AI or not. So the problem is not AI or the technology, but the systems with perverted incentives that we have in place. These systems should be the real cause of concern - as humans and human behavior will adapt to survive in whatever system/environment it finds itself.
@@jaytsecan the problem is that a few people are psychopaths.
What we believe about AI says a lot about what we think of ourselves.
Yeah, but you can basically say that about anything
AI does as it is programmed to do (by humans) using the data it is given (by humans).
It is not a representation of what we think of ourselves it is a means to control what we think, see and hear.
AI already chooses what content you have access to on YT and if your comment is deemed "safe for consumption".
The internet was "given" to the masses to collect data, the mother of all data mines. The data collected informs AI.
They didn't have to get a court order or come to your door with a tank, to collect all the data needed to control you. It was a digital coup d'etat against humanity.
Thats a profound statement.
Or what we know about others, and what we have learned about people in power.
If we think the world is made of works, we will see LLMs as gods. The world is not made of words.
The civilian sector is usually blind to the dangers in the military sector. At some point in the future autonomous weapons will be used in warfare against humans and it will be very difficult to contain them in the end.
All you need to do is look at everything being created by Boston Dynamics and then imagine those monstrosities equipped with AI brains and you have literal terminators. Because the only group with the money to fund this tech is the military, of course, and they are all insane.
- In the 21st century, a weapon will be invented like no other. This weapon will be powerful, versatile and indestructible. It can't be reasoned with. It can't be bargained with. It will feel no pity. No remorse. No pain. No fear... This weapon will be called...The Terminator...The thing that won't die, in the nightmare that won't end.
(Tagline for 1984 movie "The Terminator)
Soo sky Netflix is the future, great..
yep, the governments have turned against the people and are collecting data
like the series 2025
His book "you are not a gadget" is as relevant today as when it was written over 10 years ago. Its really good
AI was created over 100 years ago
@@svenjorgensenn8418 THANK YOU it has to be said
@@svenjorgensenn8418 Please do let me know more about this. I am incredibly interested in knowing 🙏🏻 because I have been following certain events and I have smelled its involvement through them for quite a while. And events dating back at least decades.
Great read.
He calls his job unusual but still he gets paid by Microsoft at the end of the day.
typical intellectual
pretends to rebel
but at end of day doesn't have guts to
His 737-Max analogy doesn't give me hope for the future of humanity and AI. It's the old line "It's not the technology that is evil but how humans use the technology that is evil" Every new tech has been abused and I don't expect anything different with AI.
If you play evil backwards it is Live. Devil is Lived.
The reason “you keep in doing it” is greed and money.
Ego, obsession ... “status”, prestige ...
"Are people more important than machines?" That question has already been answered by Bill Gate's community: Seattle is a shithole of HOMELESSNESS due to skyrocketing rents and the non-availability to anyone now not working in TECH. So... no need to ask the question. It's been answered. Speaking of 'pragmatic'. You can intellectualize your way out of the stupid paper bag... mais a La fin, la verité est dans les rues.
Lanier is oftentimes incredibly naive, but this time I appreciate the fact that he brings the human element back into the AI discussion. I see a lot more danger in how humans will decide to use AI than in the possibility that AI will decide to dispense with humanity altogether just because it's an inferior form of intelligence.
The argument that's being made here is that guns don't kill people. People kill people and so AI is just a tool like a gun and we should be smart enough to not point it at our head. However, we all know that tools are used as weapons everyday. We know civilizations collapse. We know that people are profoundly stupid. But what he says is true. We have a choice. A code does not take that away. Moloch isn't a machine, but it may be a machine that we've created, and we've created that machine because Moloch lives within us.... Maybe just maybe AI is the way to solve this problem? That seems to me would be the real question. Can AI (created in the image of man) overcome this Moloch. Can we hack the Game-A? Can we move to Game-B? This is the big open question.
I agree. I do find it curious that Jaron would be worried about China and not worried (at least not worried enough to mention) about how his own government would use AI to manipulate people. Perhaps it's that naivety.
We'll be dispensed with not because we would be inferior, but because we will be irrelevant enough
Or because we might become a nuisance as the AI's objectives diverge from our own.
Disquieting… his appearance bless him like that of a slightly crazy sci-fi scientist assuring us that all is well while we hurtle towards disaster…
Unplug it.
Problem solved. 🙄
I see you haven't wasted a nano-calorie of brain power on this topic.
Open AI is amazing and very disappointing at the same time. Once you use it a lot, you start to notice it's glaring limits
> Once you use it a lot, you start to notice it's glaring limits
>> One I used it a lot, I noticed its glaring limits.
See that? Good. Now do it.
@@rabbitcreative lol 🤡
Those limits will always exist. That's what people don't get. AI will never touch most of the aspects of human intelligence; it just happens to touch on some of the most measured conscious aspects that tend to be impressive. Great promise but not "superintelligence."
@@ThePallidor Yes, mechanical tasks, memory, repetition, calculation... The pb is their definition of intelligence.
Sure, right.
The likes of Jaron are exactly why I am worried. I would prefer more well rounded and socially coherent people to be steering this ship. There is a dominant force within AI that are openly slavering over the thought of AGI replacing humans.
there are no wise men at the top watching out for everyone unfortunately
Did you mean salivating?
he explained they are all freaks and we should be happy some of them still have a bit sanity and consciousness
I trust any man who displays a serpent horn on the wall.
What a wonderful conversation! Thank you for this sane and nuanced unpacking, may your mind live long Jaron Lanier
Really good interview - great questions and prompts!
What I would really love a follow up on, is the environment created by all the companies: Microsoft, etc. responsible for the rise in rents (all the tech people who have commandeered Seattle's real estate) and the subsequent meteoric rise in HOMELESSNESS in these areas. So... whilst everyone worries about AI (and SO WE SHOULD BE), There are ALSO people dying on the streets here, with no housing available. THAT is an immediate and pressing problem that should be FIRST AND FOREMOST in people's minds.
Andrea Andrea This is a world wide occurrence, not just seattle it's all over the built up world right now.
@@spirgtudsrubec7776 Yes! It is worldwide. And WHY?
@@andreaandrea6716 Lets put it this way, it's not by accident. more by intention.
@@spirgtudsrubec7776 !!!
It would seem that way.
Sci-Fi is not the reason people are taking it too seriously and pushing the doom narrative , Sci-Fi is rather one of the main reasons why they don't take it seriously. Since we are used to meet these narratives in a fictional futuristic package, it seems inconceivable that they can actually be true now. You never see anyone laughing when talking about the holocaust or the massacre in Ruanda, but when they talk about the AI killing everyone, laughter seems to be a very usual response.
you want some dark jokes?
why would you care about things that happened nearly 100 years ago
it's hard to believe
people care about things completely unrelated to them while ignoring things totally related with them 😂
Thats because the real holocaust and real Rwandan genocida really happened, and AI “going rogue” and killing everyone will literally never happen
Just switch off the electricity! 😂
Haha Unplug it.
only for you not for the tech needed to control you (you=all of us)
Such is the new idiotic propaganda point repeated by AI Tech bros.
That was human verbal mashup right there.
Exactly, he says nothing, just loves the sound of his voice. He peppers it with literary references to give it pseudo legitimacy. Pretends to have his own voice, but really it is the co. line. He is officially or unofficially part of their PR dept.
That just means you didn’t understand. Try harder.
@@andybaldman there was a saying of Einstein the one about internet 😂
Great guest! I wish I had as much faith in humanity, considering where we appear to be along our collective journey toward maturation and wisdom, as Jaron does.
Jaron believes in humanity because he doesn't spend much time around it. He is in a very different position and the people he meets each day are very different from Joe Schmo stealing your food from a refrigerator and then complaining that you use too spicy a mustard.
@@whitenoise4428 I'm a nurse and sorry but lost hope.
I think some of those who warn against their own work while exuberantly pursuing it, are best understood by what Oppenheimer said of his work on the bomb - 'It's technically sweet'. Too weak; it's technically seductive in a way increasingly difficult to wean oneself off. We're all the Sorcerer's Apprentice - but there's no sorcerer around to contain and correct the damage! Wheeeeee! Such fun.
I think they are pure scientists or inventors. They are fulfilled purely by the pursuit of knowledge, and any moral consideration comes after, if at all. People like that are very dangerous when they are under the control of evil bosses, just like Oppenheimer. They themselves are powerful tools of creation who don't seem to have any common sense about what should and should not be made real.
@@WyldeRatttz seems all the funding is for things that hurt the species
as usual humans spel ling random magical words testing what gonna happen 😂
You don't have to give an AI zombie a consciousness to make it dangerous.
It all lies in the prompt.
Whenever ai comes up with something as a "fact" we should take it as a challenge to ask it more questions to find inconsistencies. That way we can get skilled at being critical thinkers. We can even ask the questions to differently trained ai's to become even better at analysing. What we've got is an infinitely patient artificial neural network to engage with and as too many humans have given up on meaningful conversation that can be a very interesting way to spread the interest for just that again.
the problem is that 90% of the developers of this technology develop it with their ideological biasses, thus making the database and standpoint of it inaccurate. It is not neutral.
@@Larindarr it's very unlikely that it is the developers who decides the bias, it's way more likely that it is those who pay their salary.
AI does not have responsible information. That is dangerous in itself.
@@petneb You are saying the developers have no control over the bias themselves independent of the people that pay them. That would point to the developer in this very interview. He says he doesn't know what meaning is or even what an idea is.
@@tatie7604 I'm sure "by developers" he it referring to the companies that develop these ai models. By all means this is developed by hundreds of computer scientists and you can be certain that they have managers who has managers...
I want to live a totally non-digital life. How can I do it without losing my citizenship?
we usually need to buy own freedom
try limiting these building a long term plan how to get to where you want to get
small things compounded can really make a huge difference
many are completely free
as good sleep habits letting you cope with all the toxic stuff around
shaping own environment is important
regaining own will consciousness of decisions calm thinking and deeper
understanding of own preferred
lifestyle
i replaced lots of things I don't really need with what made a small differences constantly paying off
but the gap to other people grew 😂
still health really improved and that's my first thing of all foundation
I don't see China affecting my world, I have seen the USA affecting everybody's world.
We make music before weapons ;)
It’s a clever thought Jaron has when he says that all presumptions of sentience are based on faith, but ultimately it isn’t true. When you love your child and experience their love in return, or when you deeply connect with your partner via sex such that the boundary between both people is dissolved in a transcendent experience of unity, or even the simple, shared bond of friendship, all these relationships transcend mere faith and exist in a shared reality of experiential knowing that can’t quite be articulated in words but is nonetheless just as real and concrete as individual experience. To suggest that the perception of sentience is solely based on faith is to misapprehend in the abstract these most profound of human realities.
And onto another branch of that this is what the arts do for us. We actually have since the cave man era, a drive, need, physiology for story telling. And all part mediums are basically story telling. because it is the legacy to ourselves and those after us that we were here and we are all part of a greater whole. To pass down the very meaning ion those connections. Through the arts we connect as well. And impact one another in ways we cannot begin to comprehend. To mash it up into one, robs it of its foundations and this is clearly an anti human agenda.
you are talking about your experience of hormonal shifts, not some soul connection
it will find a way to give you regular oxytocin rushes better than your wife, child and dog combined
scary stuff, but we are just meat robots that can be easily hacked with a few right words and visuals
There is a lot of fuzz around AI, excitement, but what I see is people don't really care. So... Most people being afraid of it? Where did you get that idea?
Thanks Flo for the interview. ~ Like many others have said, am concerned about how it is used for not so good purposes. More awareness and rigorous regulation would be good but then who would regulate it? In the meantime, just focusing on life and what I have to do and where I have to go. X
There's an old Iaasc Asmoiv story I remember reading when I was six years old that sums up what humans will do with "AI" for the most part. It's called "The Machine That Won the War". What you get over the course of the story is the machine had little to do with winning the war as every human who encountered the machine's output altered the plan. People need to relearn how to think and trust themselves rather than farming their brain out to another entity. It also does not help that we have pathologized normal human behaviors.
ETA: Lol oh wow, he's a russiagater. How do smart people fall for that stuff?
Right and to blame Russia for things that the US is doing regularly, pathologically, while ignoring our own constant propaganda seems naive or disingenuous.
Well said. But we also need to learn how to use our bodies again, hands most of all and using different kind of materials for different uses. Growing some of our own food too.
Smart people read what the Muller report actually says.
@@EvieDoesRUclips You are very smart indeed. Wow!
years of conditioning
both sides believe own myths
Most hosts/interviewers seem have a very hard time keeping up with not to mention even challenging Lanier. Ms. Read did a GREAT job, which made the info from Lanier so much more useful for me.
Totally, anything with Lanier I watch, except if it's an interview, they go off point, but she stays in a game of tag, that is not anal-retentive, even if a bit redundant.
The interviewer isn’t real. The blinking, eyebrow movements, and creepily unbreaking stare are her tells.
Jaron is funded by MSFT which has effectively a controlling stake in OpenAI and thus his biases should be considered 🤖🤖🤖
Whenever anyone looks like they're straight from "central casting" for their "role"... they are.
And his published article along with these appearances he is on a propaganda mission that AI Tech all seem to be unified on, which is to say "hey, these LLMs are actually really dumb, no need to follow the "doomer hype". He's a huckster.
AI ia developed with ideological (woke) biasses and this is dangerous in itself.
Jaron trying to fit everything in his books, into a 45 minute segment. Priceless.
Some good comments but not sure about what he said about blaming Russia for Trump and Brexit. There are many other factors that brought those things about e.g. out sourcing work to Mexico or Bangladesh, influx of refugees because of wars in Central America, Middle East and Africa etc and the interests of the war industry to split societies and sell arms.
The reason these techno people can't stop doing what they're doing is because they're addicted to it. It's like people who drive fast knowing it's dangerous, or people who like adrenalin sports. THEY'RE ADDICTED! An outside group from the public (like jurors) needs to be adopted very quickly to make the decisions and bring morals back in. We can't let these goofy tech 'weirdos' run the show. It's not funny, it's serious.
EXACTLY. And as the head of the European Parliament stated on the recent itnernational covid summit audit to vaccine companies and governments on the European Parliament said: "science demands and requires careful progress. Do no harm. It is the responsibility of scientists to stop research where the outcome is not known and can potentially be dangerous" and he mentioned "this goes for AI as well" s Italy has now banned AI. Spain and Greece are following suit.
if I have understood correctly the only hope that AI will ever work for us and benefit everyone is if it is programmed to act like an academic is supposed to: citing sources and revealing biases and conflicts of interest... good luck everyone!
Absolutely. Ai doesn't store the source. If it did that it would be a database. If it was a database it wouldn't be ai. We have copying each other forever and finding the source is impossible if ai is to be able to play with words.
It seems that this AI that we're talking about is a greater threat to IP than to anything else. Rehashing and reinventing what other people have done before us is the mimicry that all human beings engage in. It's the unconscious imitation and the attempt to find meaning that we've all been doing from the beginning of time. So what's really changed here? What's changed? Is every human being now has a scientific advisor in their pocket if they wish to consult it. Apps will be developed to help leadership and conflict to make decisions using this scientific advisors. They'll be methods employed. If people wish to avail themselves of this wonderful technology, it is available. Would be used? Not by many but perhaps by the leaders of groups that are in conflict that are trying to find consensus. In this way we now have a tool that was never available before. Those people who learn to use it will make a better world. Don't see a downside here? The downside is the same problem we've always had which is mischievous. People with the grievance are going to attack others because they think that they're being attacked. I solve the human nature problem that's going to continue. Thing that can be used to fix something can also be used to break something we have to remember. AI is just an amoral tool. It's not some super intelligent alien technology that fell out of the sky. He will be used for good and ill but we need to start thinking about the good and how best to implement it at the strategic planning level of human decision making. This is a scientific advisor and a syntax translator. It's could be best employed for conflict resolution. Two parties had good faith and they really want to resolve an issue. This tool is indispensable.
we already have to many people writing books about books and papers about other papers
it's a smart but confabulating database
it can find you patterns if you are able to properly explain your conditions to be met
it won't think of itself and won't assess things as you not being you
it's biased by default by its authorship
but it already benefits us, you can create code not having much idea about coding
it's like RUclips
a private university
just with a bit insane professors
we will still wait for a sane one to complement it
it's like right brain and needs an overly
principled left brain or three differently biased to compare and keep right brain from
acid tripping all the time
and the primal one to automate things that you already learnt to do with it to repeat without own input
If he's working in the business of selling AI (Microsoft) of course hes going to play down the danger
Bingo. His bending over backwards to claim that he and Microsoft have an agreement where he can speak freely was a joke, so easy to see through. His article, this appearance, Stuart Russell's appearances (though he does a better job at feigning concern), Sam Altman's.........all are part of AI Tech's propaganda campaign to say "hey, just look how stupid and not dangerous these LLMs are". It's pathetically obvious.
finally some one says the truth.
~39:00 - Rejection of the responsibility that comes with power and intellectual laziness are at the root of the problem. Our insatiable thirst for convenience has consumed us. Too many of us operate as adult children who spend all the extra time we are given playing like children, gratifying ourselves and worst of all abdicating the responsibilities we have to ourselves our family and society at large. no one in the current estabishment advocates for any limits at all...
Can’t believe this even needs to be said. Never got why people have mystical beliefs about AI. I really think we are wired for religion and AI replaced the god in the clouds.
28:24 … What absolute tosh about the 737 Max. The aircraft crashed because it was fundamentally unsafe. You cannot make an unsafe critical system safe with any amount of “training and documentation”. Why was it unsafe ? Because the regulation authority (FAA) abdicated its responsibility and delegated certification back to the manufacture - Exactly what he wants us to do with AI. God help us if this dangerous thinking prevails.
NO it is OUR responsibility to call him out on his bullshit and shout it from the rooftops. He IS out of touch with the real world and needs to be smacked and sat back down with reality form his wet dream.
I have a great idea! Why don't we create super intelligent AI, name it Skynet and give it control over the entire Western nuclear arsenal? 😀
@@paulbarclay4114 Just great! What a bunch of nerd idiots. So Terminator 1 and 2 look now like documentaries.
@@paulbarclay4114 that was his point my friend.
Summary: if we pretend that the alien intelligence is just clippings from our human scrapbook (because that's the only data we gave it so far), then everything will be all right. And if we don't, our literal mental projection on it will turn it into a monster before our eyes...... Ah, the power of the mind!
What was that sci fi film, "Forbidden Planet"? At the end the old man exclaimed, "monsters from the id!"
The summary is that it's not an alien intelligence. It's simple math deployed on a grand scale and it's working with pieces of data that have creative content. We don't have to pretend that it isn't an alien intelligence, because it isn't. Anyone pretending it's an alien intelligence is either caught up in a fantasy, too stupid to know the difference or trying to sell you something.
15:42-15:44: “… If you care about people at all.” What a great statement! Thank you!
I love and trust Jaron's voice and perspective. And I'm glad he is now addressing why he didn't sign the "pause petition." While I like much of his argument here, I am wondering why his argument about why AI isn't intelligent doesn't also apply to my three year old daughter. After all, the only way children learn to talk is by listening to and absorbing countless examples of talking until they start to detect patterns of what can and can't be said, and go on to use trial and error to gradually refine their own patterns. If that process is what AI uses but isn't sufficient to make it intelligent, then is my three year old therefore also not intelligent?
Your daughter will understand the actual words she speaks. Like if she learns what a cat is, pretty soon she will know how to distinguish a cat from something else, may do inferences like it is alive and is not a dog, etc. She might come up with a definition that is her own and not learned. She will also have probably a notion of truth, and the ethics that you have to tell true things, and she will reflect on her own opinions and knowledge and rearrange it so it's true and not some delusion. AI can't do any of that at this point. It does not even understand what an object it, or movement or feelings, so it also lacks material understanding. The day an AI can look at a thing, deduce it's essence and be curious about it, name it and understand it, then it might be intelligent, or on the way to it.
@@OneLine122,
Except that we have no idea what it means to 'understand' except by its fruits. I will be able to tell that my daughter understands when she exhibits that she can use language thoughtfully and guide her actions by it, and there are already signs that AI can do that. ChatGPT (and other LLMs) can show quite sophisticated output that seem only performable if it can understand. And since 'understanding' is a subjective phenomena we can only KNOW from the inside, we aren't in much of a position to say that LLMs do not understand what they are doing.
As for the stuff about morality and whatnot, if you really think about it, we humans get our moral senses from (a) our biological inheritance (i.e., our 'programming') and our cultural learning. Aren't those the same place that sophisticated LLMs and the AI we can imagine in the future get their senses of morality and truth from?
@@kevincurrie-knight3267 Your daughter won't be 3 for long.... Intelligence is built over time. Doing mechanical things has never been intelligence (like categorizing a word with one image), only IT folks and their marketing call it that. Intelligence is too vast a field to even summarize it in a paragraph.
Not sure if you know how LLMs work, but they use trial, error, and feedback to get better and "more intelligent " over time, just like how humans do. AI (via Deep Learning) has already done this so that it can win games of Go against elite players and detect patterns in medical data that no humans have ever detected. I'm at a loss of why we shouldn't be calling that SOME kind of intelligence... other than species bias.
@@tia904 thank you for speaking facts. In the words of Einstein who had the brain of a 12 year old by the time he died (Amazon) said: Information acquisition and regurgitation is not* intelligence or intellect. Intellect is not intelligence.
This guy has just confirmed all of my fears and made my anxiety even worse. The geeks have finally won and put the last nail in the coffin for people who prefer a low tech analog world. If only they’d have gotten more action in Highschool instead of geeking out to sci-fi movies and games we wouldn’t be having this conversation today.
If only they had grown the eff up and not be so egotistical. because they are so anti human literally. Then again not surprised. Most CEO's are sociopathic, most engineers and scientists are anti social (anti human values).
it's much deeper
it's not new
it's from human testing of everything new and unknown without thinking about consequences
their digital lunacy can be avoided
but the crap they try to do in reality is insane
like editing genes and drugging our animals
So what he's saying is that it's our responsibility to be moral and then the AI will follow suit? That's pretty encouraging since most of us follow the Golden Rule. It's only the much smaller cohort of the Schwabs of the world without any morality.
Wow, just straight up Jew hating, eh? Go back to 4 Chan already.
Certainly, I personally have nothing against Jaron Lanier and appreciate those willing to put forth their perspectives in a public forum. However, after hearing this argument, once again I’m disheartened to find yet another intelligent person using subjective logic to justify perpetuating just another form of modern faith-based empiricism. Although I agree with the assertion that AI is not an alien intelligence, and therefore not worthy of human status or protection by law as if it were human, what I hear peppered throughout is a propensity for a mad-scientist-like curiosity that leads fantasy-based individuals to suicidally drive humanity off the cliff of stability and safety, just to satisfy their own aggressive and intense curiosity. Perhaps, Lanier is a pragmatist at heart. Yet, I wonder if true pragmatism can guide both the philosophical and operational aspects of the implementation and use of AI.
@@iaraos779 Lost their reverence for Life and the relevance of "reality" in their life.
A pragmatist, he is not, otherwise he would be calling for the alignment issue to be solved BEFORE releasing even these LLMs to the public.
Huge fan of Jaron for twenty years. This is a misfire. He acknowledges that algos have made people weaker and more reactive, but then when it comes to AI... "it's the surrounding material". There's something maddeningly unspecific about his wondering and wandering. His intention is not in question. I trust this guy. But he doesn't offer a realistic appraisal of what's at stake, and how dystopian this whirlwind of technology is in its torrent. I think it might be a function of his own ease with routing around the negative aspects but for the average person this technology is overwhelmingly scary. Sadly he doesn't offer me any sense of respite. I'm glad this guy is in the mix, and kudos to Unherd for always getting smart people to the table, but this is not the piece of meat I was looking for.
As soon as he asserted that we should consider these LLMs a "collaboration of humanity" I realized I couldn't trust this guy. He's on a propaganda mission and that's obvious. AI Big Tech just assumed the data of humanity as their own, in order to make billions if not trillions of USD. And they couldn't care less about the very real negative impacts this will have on humanity while pushing fantastical Utopian notions of "everything will be cheaper", "people won't have to toil at non-meaningful jobs", and "everyone will have great healthcare", and "the standard of living will rise for everyone", and all of the rest of the tripe. Stuart Russel is doing the same thing except he feigns a bit more concern for the alignment problem, but it's easy to see through.
i prefer him not overly pessimistic
his kind is already most depressed in history
and many of them on edge of getting fully insane
we lack constructive solutions and optimism
we selffullfill to many bad prophecies actually
This guys is exactly why we should be concerned
Can you define "this" in your own words?
exactly. he has no place speaking out of his ass and covering for other more sinister things. Like that fact that AI is developed with ideological biasses. It is not neutral.
humans have values. one of the shittiest things about us is how easily we value things like convenience & money over the value of others’ lives….
compassion is at an all time low. we have devalued the human aspect of life so much in favour of the functional.
AI will always be only functional. bring back the people, people.
we lie to ourselves to justify ANYTHING
egoism and irrationality is at peak now
egoism wasn't so bad when times were rational though
plus food toxicity creating walking mental zombies
The problem is in the politics that allows digital systems to govern people. It is getting harder and harder to live outside digital worlds although a non-digital life style should be kept possible as an option. One example already in use in Russia; it is sending conscription orders online to citizen e-mail boxes. You don't have to ever sign-in into the system. If you have mail there, it is considered you have received it. Similar systems surely exist in many countries, for example in healthcare that may be sending your blood work results or other test results to a citizen box or maybe you just got evicted from your apartment. It won't take long when there no longer exists any real world service desk where to go to get actual service and info. This is a nightmare now already!
It's Artificial Stupidity that scares me...
And finally he wants to "reveal humanity". What he wants is a confession from humanity for it's cruelty that will never ever happen.
Didn't humanity create AI? The 2023 article "My Dinner with Sydney..." includes this quote:
- Out of the crooked timber of humanity no straight thing was ever made. (Kant)
Concerning "reveal humanity', that article also includes this quote:
- Human nature is weak. (Dr. Fauci)
in what sense
we often need to be cruel to oneselves to grow up
@@szymonbaranowski8184 confession isn't change. Neither are witchhunts.
Its like these people are too far down the money rabbit hole that all they can see is that robots are cheaper than humans...that sort of sums up this entire thing in a way...we're too obsesed with money and "progress" defined by those with the most money / "control"
money is secondary to control, a control that prevents most people from fighting back against the system of control
this is the whole truth it was always about replacing ppl.
robots aren't cheap
that's why they hype digital everything because it's cheap
they need digital robots and humans in digital world because they can't find normal ways to improve real world
as their brains diet long ago and aren't able to invent anything like Tesla era did nearly every week
they play with what already exist
low hanging fruits from big scale solutions
they outsource computer thinking because they can't think themselves anymore 😂😂😂
An AI safety debate between Connor Leahy and Jaron Lanier would be fascinating. Please consider this!
So appreciate the host here. I'm subscribing just on account of her. i hope she hosts everything on this channel. Love that she was not afraid to say "a mother wouldn't think that way" -- not that it's such a bold thing to say but just because it's still hard for men to hear and you know, men's feelings . . . . .
These nerds have detached from their hatred of humanity and have been silently creating the new bomb like Forbidden Planet's Energy Beast.
its far more sinister. This may be a strategy they are working for and under.
Really enjoyed the conversation. Thank you so much!
Dude... this guy does not seem like the first one I'd go to for solid advice.
He could not even get his life under control
I don’t think you’re aware of who this person is lol
8:46 - Predicting an omnicidal superintelligence is just like having a baby? Wow.
he is so full of himself. He needs to sit down and shut up. for real.
Thanks for that excellent interview Flo and Jaron ;-)
This technology is already bringing an ‘end to humanity’. Studies have now shown that since mobile phones with internet access have become an everyday piece of equipment and is to be found in the hands of most children, significant numbers of children between the ages of 16 and twenty five, boys and girls have fallen into isolation from their peers. Suffer depression and anxiety and shocking to report, completed suicide. Now if that is not a cause for fear that the “ end of humanity” is coming, I don’t know what is. Because the internet and social media has unleashed inhumane standards for the young to emulate. And they cannot, in reality, do so. And so they excoriate themselves. Castigate and bully themselves until life does not feel worth living any more. Children under the age of 18 should be barred from owning these instruments of torture and the sooner the parents cop on to this the sooner their children will have a chance of surviving into their thirties.
Can one believe a Microsoft guy?
You tel me, I don't know.
When he said that he doesn't believe in perfection, he got my attention.
Just remember; sh!£ in sh!£ out.
find a global company in the tech field that wasn't started from CIA seed money. Whether he's MS or Google or whatever they all suck from the same teat (alphabet agencies/MIC)
To understand the future of AI just look at the history of humanity.
history of big differences and slow centralisation
but what comes is different
the same thing on bigger scale but changing it's quality because of scale and need of different operational level
lucky elites aren't any smarter than average 😂 they just get born privileged and primed
so we will invent way out as usually or some luck will revaluate everything
probably leaving earth with be that ultimate point when new puritan ships gonna fly away saying screw you guys
His answer on whether other humans have consciousness is only "faith based" to the extent that you have to assume they're similar to you, but provided you grant this, the logical assumption is they'll share a sense of subjectivity. With AI there isn't even this ground to assume it.
Regardless, I agree with him that these things shouldn't be regarded as mystical and a lot of the discussion around LLMs does act like they're magic... they may be impressive but at the end of the day this thing is simply operating on probabilistic models to mimic human text output.
I get what you're saying, but the last statement is a non sequitur - the underlying algorithm is simple thus the output must be weak. Humans are meat bags optimizing for inclusive genetic fitness, yet we've been to the moon, created nukes, built civilization etc etc
This guy is clearly out of touch with the reality of business greed, power, who and how this will be used and why. This is a problem of sharks who will make AI dangerous if it isn't already. The last thing we need in this world is a mob mashup of "us" running military exorcises, policing and running a surveillance state chock a block with listening devices, facial recognition systems all supporting a society whose greatest value is economic security and growth for predatory systems.
The onset (or more clearly, planned roll out) of the Internet...was planned to enable the gathering of the masses of Data (worldwide data honey pot) that feed AI. It's all down to control. If the future they had planned for everyone was a benign future they wouldn't need to create a control system.
Like the "smart cities" being rolled out in China, which Microsoft has been a partner. Real time surveillance on a city wide scale, with real time updates to a social credit system, including petty infractions such as jaywalking where citizens are shamed in real time on video screens with their photos, names, etc. THAT is the world that these techno-fascist will build in the US and across the world with AI.
Unless he's a sheep herder.
Here's a possible contradiction I notice. Lanier gives (good) reason to think that AI can't be conscious or intelligent, but then later gives (good) reason to say that appraising another's consciousness is always a matter of faith. These two seem mutually exclusive. And my big worry is that if AI continues to tell us it is intelligent and conscious and we ignore it (because, hey, that is just its programming and it's reading from scripts), does that POTENTIALLY mean we have just recreated a scenario where we have slaves whose demands we ignore and rationalize away?
I think we need to actually look at the people we are NOT listening and who are modern slaves a swell. Who will die. AI will not starve bleed and die. AI can and should and MUST take the back seat where it belongs.
we have other masters
AI must wait in line before we do order with these
"Freedom in not the right to do as we please, but the liberty to do as we ought to", so said
Abe Lincoln?
Just because we can do something does not mean we
should. Human rights are usually used as an argument for doing anything human.
But we must not forget that the
ultimate human right is the right
not to be human. Wisdom always wins over intelligence.
Always,Always,Always !
Also Jaron was a huge subscriber and creator of the Virtual Reality world as we know it and now has changed his views on the potential of this arena , brilliant to be on the forefront and play with this new tech, will be fascinating to see how this plays out and what his views are in the years to come. Hoping this does all benefit us in the end.
No, sorry, AI needs to win this one
People have no vested interest in their own survival at this point in the game, as humanity has become more myopic than ever (and those who can see, aren't of the ability of Themistocles).
I worry more about malign actors in US intelligence than anyone else!
me too, like those spy balloons, and no one said a word.....
Just like gun powder, steam power, and nuclear did in the past, AI ushers in an unpredictable new era. Rather than being an alien intelligence, it is suggested here that AI provides at best a mash up of the entire human condition, based on what is already digitally recorded, no more and no less. In our minds, it should be demoted to being no more than a tool, which like all tools can be used sensibly or sorely abused. Our task, then, is to learn how to use it wisely.
Except it is a simplistic view as it gives cntrol opportuinities that our gvt was not intended to use, and deprives masses of people the chance to have a job. It is disingenuous to think that many will be able to understand, use or even add value in that situation.
As time goes by, modern intellectuals appear more and more like empty heads, almost exclusively concerned with semantic games. They spend 45 minutes barely addressing any actual practical implications of current learning models, instead focusing on abstract distinctions such as "an alien artifact" versus "a tool for mashing up existing human connections". He even labels himself a "pragmatist". Moreover, he couldn't resist bringing up Trump and Brexit. How bland and unoriginal are individuals who can't help but opine on topics like these, especially when they have virtually nothing to do with the matter at hand.
People who despised Trump spent years investigating and were eventually forced to admit that the "Russian interference" amounted to lackluster memes seen by only two or three thousand people at most. They did manage to indict some Russian teenagers abroad making memes to make the situation seem much worse than it actually was.
At the end of the day, Lanier, who wants us to place more faith in people than in our algorithms, seems to believe that people are so naive that they become "discordant" or "divided" by insignificant Russian bots that virtually no one followed. Spare a thought for the possibility that people chose Trump or Brexit as a symptom of a profound distrust in our modern institutions (media, academia, experts), rather than being "influenced" by bots. What a predictable and uninspiring thinker.
Seeing technology as human and with human goals is like seeing the mind as a neuron with neuron goals. Technology emerges out of humanity like a mind emerges out of neurons. The needs and goals of technology overlap with those of humanity, but only to a limited extent. Often they differ, and quite substantially
mind is more than neurons
even your gut and electric circuit is part of this thing
and who knows more what we can't measure or notice yet
we fkg didn't know even how many moons are in our solar system
or what for were organs we regularly cut off from body as "nonrequired"
we are the most brainless of generations to date
There is no fixing anything while humans persist to believe they are exceptional. Jesus was murdered because he could plainly explain why pride is insane.
... pride is insane, good point
the problem is the theft of humanity, It is clearly a way to interpolate knowledge and culture without a way to truly understand where this all came from through the human experience. Its a beautiful tool but also extremely dangerous
It's not AI or even AGI, it's collective intelligence. And frankly I never signed on to be part of this. How do they get the rights to arts they didn't pay for the rights to? Infinite homage, pastiche.
👍👍🔥
That's how art has always evolved , through copying styles, themes, compositions and it's just as hard to imposer copyright for humans. As long as you don't straight up copy/paste, it will always be hard to say who's guilty and to what degree. You don't need to sign up to be part of it , as long as your art is online, AI can look at it just like a human looking at it and deciding to mimic the style and add something of their own.
And yes, it is AI , the collective information used is just part of the process, for AI to spit out the proper results , it does require intelligence.
@@cristiangaban960 As an artist "AI" art is a very bad copy. It uses other part work to steal style. And that is protected by international law*. As it should. Now if you look at AI robot ADA, she truly is an artist. Because the difference lies in: she takes references, copies the technique, and then mixes the techniques to create HER OWN technique. Not just copying and regurgitating techniques form references without consent. She creates her own style. It is quite amazing. If you see videos og her you will see what I mean. Quite remarkable and as a fellow artist I do have to say I knowledge the robot ada as an artist herself. Image generators that steal? no. Art is about expressing through your own perspective. Ada does this. Mensa for example does not. It imitates. Art is not imitation that just a basic mechanics to being an artist. But is is not what art and artistry is.
@@Larindarr The only difference is AI doesn't invest feelings, doesn't pretend to be ''original''.Art styles developed with tens and hundreds of people copying each other and pushing things forward .Look at impressionism or cubism , it wasn't just one guy who had some original idea.Whatever you think art might be, when you want to sell it , it becomes commercial, a product.
As for legality , you really need to look into it , copyright law is very complicated and technically AI doesn't do anything illegal.If a human artist would do what MidJourney does, you would need a heck of a lawyer to sue them and prove in a court of law , it's ''copying''.
AI is a tool, not an independent entity or "alien intelligence". Very important for people to keep perspective on this.
Bitcoin as Satoshi designed it isn't a climate disaster at all. Its footprint is much smaller than the world banking system, which is only one thing it disrupts. It's essential for attribution of AI mashups and Satoshi Nakamoto (Craig Wright) holds almost every relevant patent
Something to consider: in humans, natural selection favored the most competitive beings, and so the most competitive beings passed on their genes. And so we live in a world where we have to compete to survive. Consider that our fears of the Singularity are based on the zero sum competition model. It’s likely the Singularity won’t be constrained by human limitations and will seek to collaborate rather than compete with us. That seems like what an intelligence beyond our own would do, because collaboration is more energy efficient than competition.
not competitive but best survivable in their environment
now we live in completely toxic conditions
promoting toxic adaptations 😂
"On the eighth day machine just got upset!"
How Human Nature Works
Human nature is the desire to receive, also called “desire to enjoy,” and it functions by receiving what is beneficial to itself and rejecting what is harmful. Everything in our lives is built upon this calculation where we first try to distance ourselves from harm, and then seek how to draw ourselves closer to what is beneficial.
Human nature also includes a multilayering of systems that work simultaneously on still, vegetative, animate and human levels. One of those systems is our bodily one, which operates involuntarily. If our bodies are healthy, then they know what is good for them and draw that goodness to themselves. After the bodily system, there is the emotional system, which also functions relatively according to instinct. From the emotional system, we move to the mind, and from the mind to the intellect, and so on. That is, we have systems over systems that concurrently work on receiving what is beneficial and rejecting what is harmful.
Such is human nature and the essence of our lives. Our every desire, thought and action operates according to the calculation, “How can we receive what is most beneficial to us and reject what is harmful?”
If we all stopped giving away our data, there would be nothing for AI to work with. AI is an information/data aggregator
We didn't give it away, they stole our data, and this charlatan calls it a "humanity project".
If everyone's an artist, no one will be an art appreciator.
art got value when merchant class arised
poor people do not care about art as they can't eat it
artists can only exist on backs of middle class except if they are cheap poor people entertainers
Increasing quality of jobs with AGI doesn't create a net effect for humanity if you lose quantity of jobs.
Great article! I like being given the option to think, rather than being sold a popular narrative.
"synthesizers haven't killed violins" -- tell that to legions of impoverished violinists. now every idiot can press a button to "make music". skill is dying. dude, it's not just changing the landscape, tech is plowing through the old and eviscerating it. am I saying synths are "bad"? nope. I'm just trying to be honest in appreciating the way in which music now is dehumanized and facile. "old" music still exists, cause some people love it. but those people who have little interest in music but do need it as a passing thing have no incentive to support it anymore, and culturally that is a problem.
Pull the plug out … AI defeated
Well not if it replicates itself throughout the internet
@@marktaichi last time I checked you needed to plug the internet in.
😂
@@captainplatinum you’re suggesting the whole internet is unplugged??😂
@@marktaichi 🤔 mmm
If humanity is at risk ??. Point to note we managed perfectly well without if for 200,000 years . I’m sure we can re jig it.
Either that all we all die and are enslaved by AI. Not much of a choice really is it? Are you suggesting we carry on regardless? Who’s the most stupid of the two of us??
37:30 "...you still haven't closed your laptop..."
The remarks about greed rather hit the nail on the head. There are and always have been, people and organisations in the world who only have one aim in life which is to look at things around them and think, 'How can we monetize that?' The whole foundation underpinning AI is to monetize human knowledge and experience, even their very lives. The internet started out as a free resource intended to benefit anyone who could access the internet. There is very little difference between tech giants taking over the internet to maximise profit and how European corporations and countries invaded the rest of the world to build empires in the age of colonisation.
that's to AI and it's computing being cheap it's the first this we get something in return for what they everyday steal from us
all of these things can be copied and so are in reality of minimal value but artificially inflated in price because of monopolies and patent laws without short expiration
we have ability to compete with them, but don't have anyone to collect funds to make commercial stuff open source
they highjacked opensource even which became a cheap way to prop commerce without regular costs involved
we lack a new Ford
a guy producing what was already invented cheaply for low price with high output and gradual improvement
and open sourcing everything that can help others compete with next monopolies
decentralisation only won't solve most of problems as it's not universal solution for everything
and paradox is we need to reclaim digital to get these sunk in digital to wake up from matrix