unless I'm getting confused, the accusations against Garam were sent to Source before Le Sserafim's debut, because I remember people calling her 'the bully' when their debut teasers were released in various comments. So Source could've and SHOULD have dealt with this before debuting the group instead the messy thing they did.
The garam situation is so tragic everything that could’ve went wrong did. It’s so sad to see someone so young go threw that I’m happy to see she still is pursuing her dream and I hope for her success. Source did not handle the situation well at all to first having the group promote without her showing that she was disposable and starting the whole entire “they’re better as five movement” and the svc document came out to late to help prove her innocence
It’s just really tragic how ppl can twist stories or straight up just lie and then an idol’s whole career is gone. And don’t think I haven’t noticed that (notoriously) it’s mostly FEMALE idols who lose their livelihood, while male idols seem to be able to recover almost every time. Blatant sexism (in how company’s respond to these issues and how fans react).
I have to disagree. I know at least a handfull of male idols that had to leave their group because of some kind of accusation. And this is just within the last couple years. Some MAY be able to start a solo career later on, some may not even wanna do that, but NO ONE is safe from these. Its just simply not true that this "affects women more".
@@jennaeveliina313 I agree entirely! And honestly it’s not even a sexism thing in that aspect as of course there’s sexism in the industry, but the immediate problem is that people take a rumor and twist it into a narrative that is believed to be the truth despite others backing them up, and with no evidence to be found.
@@jennaeveliina313 it’s very true. I’ve been following kpop for 11 years now and while it’s obviously not only females who get hit with these career altering or ending situations, I have noticed that women usually don’t get to comeback from them. Just take the last few years as an example. 1 member of IKON, 1 member of Monsta X, and 1 member of Stray Kids: each had a significant controversy yet all 3 either left their group and were able to continue a successful solo career or were able to continue with their group. In that same amount of time I’ve seen even MORE women accused of similarly catastrophic accusations and ALL except one of them are no longer with their group and no longer in the industry (soojin and Garam being the most notable examples). All it takes is for y’all to open your eyes to see how quickly these companies, this industry, and these “fans” turn on their female idols and how contrasting that response is when it’s a male idol involved. Also, if y’all knew anything abt Korea, you’d know they’ve struggled with the death grip sexism has on their culture for many many years. It’s a systematic issue over there, not one only related to kpop.
@@anyone1111 It’s a shame I only just got this notification now. I could’ve educated y’all a whole month ago. But anyways, refer to my comment above as a response.
For Garam's case she was fighting an uphill battle the entire time. So much fake information was released (I.E Garam saying "IVE down, LE SSERAFIM up" when IVE hasn't even debuted as a group yet). In addition to people believing fake evidence, she was in HYBE's first gg, arguably one of the most anticipated groups of the year. People wanted to see her fail, they prayed on her downfall so they just ignored any evidence or statements that tried to justify her actions. When HYBE/SoMu released their statement in full detail, people started to say that she must have had rich parents to defend her and or she had some sort of romantical relationship with an HYBE exec so that's why they're sticking their necks out for her. She was 16 for ffs and yet people are still making such nasty comments about her. Could HYBE and SoMu acted sooner and maybe mitigate the damage? Abso-fucking-lutely. But you can't say that they didn't try. They released 2-3 statements saying that the accusations weren''t true, instead something else took place and people refused to listen. The problem is that people do not understand nuances; they don't understand that the world is not black or white, it's not 1s and 0s. There is context and detail in everything , and once you leave those out anything can be twisted taken the wrong way. I followed Garam's case very closely and when I say she's innocent, I don't mean she has a clean record. What I mean is that she's innocent from the bullying allegations but not the cursing one.
Yeah she wasn't a bully and i think eunsoo, the girl who later came up with the cropped picture of the school record, knew that cause she cropped the part that detailed why she was punished. Had it been bullying the document would've simply said so but it didn't. One intance of an altercation isn't bullying. But this situation was complicated bc both of them did some wrong but since the kpop fandom knows no nuance, they only recognize the person making the accusation as the absolute pure victim and the accused as the devil. The document goes in great detail of all the f-ed up things eunsoo did that sound a lot more like harassment on her part if you ask me, which is for sure why she didn't show it in full. But on SoMu's side, releasing the full document and saying "yeah Garam did some bad but not THAT bad" wouldn't have worked in my opinion cause again, kpop stans know no nuance and as you said were just out to bully someone as they always are. In an alternate universe where eunsoo is the one debuting as an idol, someone revealing that she made CP of a classmate and shared in online would be an irredeemable offense and tank her career, and nobody would care that Garam (in this scenario, the non-famous accusor) did some wrong too. Of all the bullying scandals this one left the worst taste in my mouth for several reasons : 1- Kpop fans were bullying a minor online for months (accusing her of sleeping with grown men no less) in the name of ... stopping bullying, which is vile and hypocritical 2- SoMu mishandled the thing and exposed a teenager to all this predictable hate 3- Reading the full content of her record, Garam got in troouble for defend her friends against a two-faced classmate and protecting a friend twho fell victim to the classmate's crime (taking underwear pictures of a kid and sharing it online, is a crime, regardless of how old you are) . She didn't use the right means but it seems she had noble intentions which sucks. She wasn't just being mean out of nowhere. And on top of that she was also later bullied by her classmates. 4- SHE HAS ALREADY BEEN DISCIPLINED BY THE SCHOOL! This one gets me the most because the mantra i hear from stans all the damn time about how important it is that idols are punished by the public for their misdeeds as kids is that the korean school system does nothing to discipline them and just let the bullying happen so some justice needs to take place. But in this case the school did care! they did what everyone says would fix this issue and stop them from acting like vigilantes keyboard warriors, but it still wasn't enough. she was punished by the public the exact same way she wouldve been had she never been caught for anything at school. And her punishment at school was far more appropriate, including counselling and an apology, which helps people grow. Yet being presented with the evidence that she has already paid for her mistakes only made people demand that she'd be kicked out even more. It just goes to show that fans are not AT ALL concerned with justice. In fact, they just want someone to bully. And it's the same ones that turn around and express concern for minors in the industry, like they are ever kind to kids they don't like and aren't apart of the problem. This scandal in particular kinda sends the message that there is no point in making amends, accepting a punishment etc. The public will never move on. If you ever did anything wrong, you just have to give up entirely on the prospect of being an idol. which is shitty cause Le sserafim's music talks a lot about having impurities, not being perfect, trying and trying and getting back up after every mistake. The public eats that up but expect hypocrisy from the very people performing the songs. All the other artists i know who write and sing about such things are people who've made mistakes, suffered the consequences and were allowed to grow by their audience. Kpop is so shallow i swear.
I missed your videos so much, I'm glad you're back!! I understand the struggles of working a job as well as doing youtube videos. It's really sad though how some random person that doesn't personally know the idols in question (or even if they do know them personally) can spread lies simply from jealousy/boredom, completely ruining that idols YEARS of training. But isn't it pathetic how the media automatically believes that random person from groundless proof? K-media just seems to be getting worse throughout each gen due to internet exposure
Exactly and the worse thing it’s always on social media with a person who has like no pfp! Like it’s tragic how many careers are ruined. And I can’t even imagine what someone feels and how helpless it must feel to not be able to say anything (because the company & the amount that believes them is smaller than those who don’t sadly)
Honestly these types of situations show that,like you said that, these companies need to really do deep background checks on idols even when they come in as trainees. We know that guilt or innocence in K-entertainment doesn’t matter it’s all about image. Once an idol is even accused of bullying, it’s basically over. Also welcome back! I know the struggle of working 2 jobs, I have 3 right now lol
If I'm being honest, I wish there was a way to keep what happened with AOA away from younger kpop stans because it really bothers me that it's remembered as a "bullying scandal" (not that I'm saying you do this in the video, I agree that it's definitely what opened the floodgates of kpop stans interrogating every one since). The nuances and complications to it were a very different kind than school bullying allegations and I don't think a lot of kpop stans are capable of acknowledging that in a respectful way. Throughout the whole thing, people just wanted a 'villain' whether that be Jimin or Mina, and even knowing the truth I don't feel comfortable putting Mina (whose mental health crisis through it all was clearly affecting her actions) in the same category as idols like Hwayoung or Soojin or Garam. I genuinely hope that she's getting help now and it's wild to me that some people would interpret my saying that as "siding with a bully".
Glad you have come back. Just do what you need to do. The last year in college is the toughest. You may not have as many classes but there's so much work. Once you gradute, you can make more videos... just joking. You'll still be busy. But please upload more videos. I love your "Why *this kpop group* failed?" series. I think this is what happened... In Garam's case. Source Music which is backed by HYBE tried to put the issue under the rug. They thought they could make it go away by either intimidating the accusers or by ignoring it. You can tell with the tone of their statements that they were not taking it seriously and underestimated the accusers at first then eventually gave in to the pressure because they know this has gotten too big that the other members were being affected tremendously. They invested a lot already and losing one member is better than jeopardizing the whole group. They had no other choice but to kick her out. They made the right decision. In Soojin's case, the way she handled this was detrimental to herself. She acted unapologetically saying that she can't remember the bullying. The "not remembering the bullying incidents" claim alone not only is weak but shows refusal of owning accountability. Was she or wasn't she? It's okay to not own up to it and rightfully so if she really wasn't guilty. But as celebrity, she had to address it without sounding argumentative. Since Irene was mentioned, I'll use her as an example. Irene is a lot bigger than Soojin but her company made it seem like she was humbly apologetic. It might be insincere but that's enough for most people. Yes it's unfair but that's the way it is. Also the comparison with Irene is different. Irene is beloved by the general public. Soojin is loved by her fans but not everyone cares about her. And Garam is a rookie. People probably knew of her because of her issue. Apples and oranges...
@@chroniclesofalivingdeadgirl I'm convinced I replied to this message days earlier, but for some reason my replies keep getting removed. Anyway, you can inform yourself using verified twitter sources.
@@nijienjoyer_ already did, I read news sources. I don't rely on Twitter. I don't trust it. That's why I was questioning your comment. Because that's not accurate.
The whole garam thing was kinda laughable with the way the situation was handled. Her 2 min fans are also really gullible but super strong supporters ig because it didn’t really matter if she was guilty or not cause her image is already tainted and something definitely had to happen to have so many ppl supposedly close to her shut down her career so fast. Like there is no way everyone and their mama from your day to day all decided to squad up against you like what??
You must not be caught up… what happened between the victim and Garam isn’t completely undisclosed, while we’ll never truly know what happened between them outside of the incident that caused Garam to receive a level 5 punishment, it’s already been debunked as to why that punishment wasn’t proof that she was a bully. Other then that… what other people who were close to her spoke out against her? As far as I’m concerned the only accuser that proved they actually knew Garam was Euseo?
unless I'm getting confused, the accusations against Garam were sent to Source before Le Sserafim's debut, because I remember people calling her 'the bully' when their debut teasers were released in various comments. So Source could've and SHOULD have dealt with this before debuting the group instead the messy thing they did.
The garam situation is so tragic everything that could’ve went wrong did. It’s so sad to see someone so young go threw that I’m happy to see she still is pursuing her dream and I hope for her success. Source did not handle the situation well at all to first having the group promote without her showing that she was disposable and starting the whole entire “they’re better as five movement” and the svc document came out to late to help prove her innocence
It’s just really tragic how ppl can twist stories or straight up just lie and then an idol’s whole career is gone. And don’t think I haven’t noticed that (notoriously) it’s mostly FEMALE idols who lose their livelihood, while male idols seem to be able to recover almost every time. Blatant sexism (in how company’s respond to these issues and how fans react).
I have to disagree. I know at least a handfull of male idols that had to leave their group because of some kind of accusation. And this is just within the last couple years. Some MAY be able to start a solo career later on, some may not even wanna do that, but NO ONE is safe from these. Its just simply not true that this "affects women more".
@@jennaeveliina313 I agree entirely! And honestly it’s not even a sexism thing in that aspect as of course there’s sexism in the industry, but the immediate problem is that people take a rumor and twist it into a narrative that is believed to be the truth despite others backing them up, and with no evidence to be found.
@@jennaeveliina313 it’s very true. I’ve been following kpop for 11 years now and while it’s obviously not only females who get hit with these career altering or ending situations, I have noticed that women usually don’t get to comeback from them. Just take the last few years as an example. 1 member of IKON, 1 member of Monsta X, and 1 member of Stray Kids: each had a significant controversy yet all 3 either left their group and were able to continue a successful solo career or were able to continue with their group. In that same amount of time I’ve seen even MORE women accused of similarly catastrophic accusations and ALL except one of them are no longer with their group and no longer in the industry (soojin and Garam being the most notable examples).
All it takes is for y’all to open your eyes to see how quickly these companies, this industry, and these “fans” turn on their female idols and how contrasting that response is when it’s a male idol involved. Also, if y’all knew anything abt Korea, you’d know they’ve struggled with the death grip sexism has on their culture for many many years. It’s a systematic issue over there, not one only related to kpop.
@@anyone1111 It’s a shame I only just got this notification now. I could’ve educated y’all a whole month ago. But anyways, refer to my comment above as a response.
For Garam's case she was fighting an uphill battle the entire time. So much fake information was released (I.E Garam saying "IVE down, LE SSERAFIM up" when IVE hasn't even debuted as a group yet). In addition to people believing fake evidence, she was in HYBE's first gg, arguably one of the most anticipated groups of the year. People wanted to see her fail, they prayed on her downfall so they just ignored any evidence or statements that tried to justify her actions. When HYBE/SoMu released their statement in full detail, people started to say that she must have had rich parents to defend her and or she had some sort of romantical relationship with an HYBE exec so that's why they're sticking their necks out for her. She was 16 for ffs and yet people are still making such nasty comments about her.
Could HYBE and SoMu acted sooner and maybe mitigate the damage? Abso-fucking-lutely. But you can't say that they didn't try. They released 2-3 statements saying that the accusations weren''t true, instead something else took place and people refused to listen. The problem is that people do not understand nuances; they don't understand that the world is not black or white, it's not 1s and 0s. There is context and detail in everything , and once you leave those out anything can be twisted taken the wrong way.
I followed Garam's case very closely and when I say she's innocent, I don't mean she has a clean record. What I mean is that she's innocent from the bullying allegations but not the cursing one.
YES^
Yeah she wasn't a bully and i think eunsoo, the girl who later came up with the cropped picture of the school record, knew that cause she cropped the part that detailed why she was punished. Had it been bullying the document would've simply said so but it didn't. One intance of an altercation isn't bullying. But this situation was complicated bc both of them did some wrong but since the kpop fandom knows no nuance, they only recognize the person making the accusation as the absolute pure victim and the accused as the devil. The document goes in great detail of all the f-ed up things eunsoo did that sound a lot more like harassment on her part if you ask me, which is for sure why she didn't show it in full. But on SoMu's side, releasing the full document and saying "yeah Garam did some bad but not THAT bad" wouldn't have worked in my opinion cause again, kpop stans know no nuance and as you said were just out to bully someone as they always are.
In an alternate universe where eunsoo is the one debuting as an idol, someone revealing that she made CP of a classmate and shared in online would be an irredeemable offense and tank her career, and nobody would care that Garam (in this scenario, the non-famous accusor) did some wrong too.
Of all the bullying scandals this one left the worst taste in my mouth for several reasons :
1- Kpop fans were bullying a minor online for months (accusing her of sleeping with grown men no less) in the name of ... stopping bullying, which is vile and hypocritical
2- SoMu mishandled the thing and exposed a teenager to all this predictable hate
3- Reading the full content of her record, Garam got in troouble for defend her friends against a two-faced classmate and protecting a friend twho fell victim to the classmate's crime (taking underwear pictures of a kid and sharing it online, is a crime, regardless of how old you are) . She didn't use the right means but it seems she had noble intentions which sucks. She wasn't just being mean out of nowhere. And on top of that she was also later bullied by her classmates.
4- SHE HAS ALREADY BEEN DISCIPLINED BY THE SCHOOL! This one gets me the most because the mantra i hear from stans all the damn time about how important it is that idols are punished by the public for their misdeeds as kids is that the korean school system does nothing to discipline them and just let the bullying happen so some justice needs to take place. But in this case the school did care! they did what everyone says would fix this issue and stop them from acting like vigilantes keyboard warriors, but it still wasn't enough. she was punished by the public the exact same way she wouldve been had she never been caught for anything at school. And her punishment at school was far more appropriate, including counselling and an apology, which helps people grow. Yet being presented with the evidence that she has already paid for her mistakes only made people demand that she'd be kicked out even more. It just goes to show that fans are not AT ALL concerned with justice. In fact, they just want someone to bully. And it's the same ones that turn around and express concern for minors in the industry, like they are ever kind to kids they don't like and aren't apart of the problem.
This scandal in particular kinda sends the message that there is no point in making amends, accepting a punishment etc. The public will never move on. If you ever did anything wrong, you just have to give up entirely on the prospect of being an idol. which is shitty cause Le sserafim's music talks a lot about having impurities, not being perfect, trying and trying and getting back up after every mistake. The public eats that up but expect hypocrisy from the very people performing the songs. All the other artists i know who write and sing about such things are people who've made mistakes, suffered the consequences and were allowed to grow by their audience. Kpop is so shallow i swear.
I missed your videos so much, I'm glad you're back!! I understand the struggles of working a job as well as doing youtube videos. It's really sad though how some random person that doesn't personally know the idols in question (or even if they do know them personally) can spread lies simply from jealousy/boredom, completely ruining that idols YEARS of training. But isn't it pathetic how the media automatically believes that random person from groundless proof? K-media just seems to be getting worse throughout each gen due to internet exposure
Exactly and the worse thing it’s always on social media with a person who has like no pfp! Like it’s tragic how many careers are ruined. And I can’t even imagine what someone feels and how helpless it must feel to not be able to say anything (because the company & the amount that believes them is smaller than those who don’t sadly)
Honestly these types of situations show that,like you said that, these companies need to really do deep background checks on idols even when they come in as trainees. We know that guilt or innocence in K-entertainment doesn’t matter it’s all about image. Once an idol is even accused of bullying, it’s basically over. Also welcome back! I know the struggle of working 2 jobs, I have 3 right now lol
If I'm being honest, I wish there was a way to keep what happened with AOA away from younger kpop stans because it really bothers me that it's remembered as a "bullying scandal" (not that I'm saying you do this in the video, I agree that it's definitely what opened the floodgates of kpop stans interrogating every one since). The nuances and complications to it were a very different kind than school bullying allegations and I don't think a lot of kpop stans are capable of acknowledging that in a respectful way.
Throughout the whole thing, people just wanted a 'villain' whether that be Jimin or Mina, and even knowing the truth I don't feel comfortable putting Mina (whose mental health crisis through it all was clearly affecting her actions) in the same category as idols like Hwayoung or Soojin or Garam. I genuinely hope that she's getting help now and it's wild to me that some people would interpret my saying that as "siding with a bully".
I subscribed when I heard about the college story lmaooooo I’m in the same boat rn
Was Jimin from AOA proven innocent?
Or people just switched opinions because of consent Mina Instagram drama?
Glad you have come back. Just do what you need to do. The last year in college is the toughest. You may not have as many classes but there's so much work. Once you gradute, you can make more videos... just joking. You'll still be busy. But please upload more videos. I love your "Why *this kpop group* failed?" series.
I think this is what happened...
In Garam's case. Source Music which is backed by HYBE tried to put the issue under the rug. They thought they could make it go away by either intimidating the accusers or by ignoring it. You can tell with the tone of their statements that they were not taking it seriously and underestimated the accusers at first then eventually gave in to the pressure because they know this has gotten too big that the other members were being affected tremendously. They invested a lot already and losing one member is better than jeopardizing the whole group. They had no other choice but to kick her out. They made the right decision.
In Soojin's case, the way she handled this was detrimental to herself. She acted unapologetically saying that she can't remember the bullying. The "not remembering the bullying incidents" claim alone not only is weak but shows refusal of owning accountability. Was she or wasn't she? It's okay to not own up to it and rightfully so if she really wasn't guilty. But as celebrity, she had to address it without sounding argumentative.
Since Irene was mentioned, I'll use her as an example. Irene is a lot bigger than Soojin but her company made it seem like she was humbly apologetic. It might be insincere but that's enough for most people. Yes it's unfair but that's the way it is.
Also the comparison with Irene is different. Irene is beloved by the general public. Soojin is loved by her fans but not everyone cares about her. And Garam is a rookie. People probably knew of her because of her issue. Apples and oranges...
It's just sad Garam was kicked out even though she's innocent...
@@nijienjoyer_ how could you tell she's innocent though?
@@chroniclesofalivingdeadgirl I'm convinced I replied to this message days earlier, but for some reason my replies keep getting removed. Anyway, you can inform yourself using verified twitter sources.
@@nijienjoyer_ already did, I read news sources. I don't rely on Twitter. I don't trust it.
That's why I was questioning your comment. Because that's not accurate.
@@chroniclesofalivingdeadgirl What news sources did you read?
The whole garam thing was kinda laughable with the way the situation was handled. Her 2 min fans are also really gullible but super strong supporters ig because it didn’t really matter if she was guilty or not cause her image is already tainted and something definitely had to happen to have so many ppl supposedly close to her shut down her career so fast. Like there is no way everyone and their mama from your day to day all decided to squad up against you like what??
You must not be caught up… what happened between the victim and Garam isn’t completely undisclosed, while we’ll never truly know what happened between them outside of the incident that caused Garam to receive a level 5 punishment, it’s already been debunked as to why that punishment wasn’t proof that she was a bully. Other then that… what other people who were close to her spoke out against her? As far as I’m concerned the only accuser that proved they actually knew Garam was Euseo?
Yeah at least we now she is innocent from the bullying accusations but it doesn't matter anymore
i missed your videos sm hello!
first