Why art pricing formula's don't work | How to price your paintings?
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- Опубликовано: 13 май 2020
- Artists know that art pricing formula’s are BS but don’t know what to do instead. The most powerful way to price your art is to not focus on the pricing aspect of it at all. What I would recommend instead is to focus on the marketing aspect where you can manipulate the demand and basically justify any price point of your choosing. In this process however it becomes very important to understand all the aspects that influence the price of an artwork so that you can make sure your price is justified and your marketing efforts will actually increase the value of your art and not just bring random awareness around your art. In this video we explain why art pricing formula's don't work and what to do instead. How to price your artwork the right way.
If you like this video and would love to learn more about art business, I would recommend to check out my other videos for emerging artists around various topics including selling art, buying art, art collectors and more. But if you want to go further and really step up your game and start succeeding fast then you can always contact me on Insta, Facebook or TikTok…
Make sure to subscribe if you want to learn more about the art business, selling art and collecting art. Or watch one of my other videos.
Other links for the curious souls:
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driesketels.com/
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"Whenever you state your price, shut up." THIS IS SO IMPORTANT. You should not have to justify your prices, because the right audience (buyers) wouldn't expect you to.
There you go. You get it.
Yes!!! I finally did this recently. I'm not really fond of doing commissions. But this lady really wanted me to create something similar to a past piece I had already sold. I decided to choose a price so high (for.me) that if she accepted it, it would.make it worth it to me. That was it. I stated it matter of fact, no explanation, and she accepted. I was like.... "Damn.... Why didn't I try this before?"
@@driesketels Just started selling and I was wondering - about explaining. Thanks a million ton.
Ouch! This is spot on. The truth is gonna hurt for many artists out there
The truth hurts for all of us, but it's a good type of pain. Always love to read your comments Corrie. Stay safe.
I agree!!! Sometimes I ask myself “what is the price that I will be happy to let it go?”
That's a good way to go about things.
I am a first time art consumer and was looking for a formula to understand how art is priced and came across your video. I commissioned a local artist here in Vienna, Jerson Jimenez, to paint a portrait of Gabriel Garcia Marquez for me and I went to him and didn't bother to question his worth. Thank you
You're welcome Laz-Andres. Enjoy your first piece of art.
I decided to raise my prices after an incident where I didn’t want to let a piece go and had a bad feeling all day.
That's a good moment to raise your prices Ricarda!
Be careful. You want to find a balance between selling and loving your own art N.S.
This video is too underrated :( This is the best advice on art pricing that I got so far, thank you so much!!
Glad you think so!
If you're not selling your artwork, you should RAISE your prices, not lower them. You are correct in saying people feel value with their credit card.
I did not say "If you are not selling your artwork, you should raise your prices"... This might be a very dangerous rule...
As a working artist and a tattoo artist, I love this video. I NEVER justify my pricing. Because the buyer is buying YEARS of experience. It is never too expensive, just out with some people’s budgets.
It is never too expensive just out of some people's budget. Love that.
Resentment pricing - legend quote!
Hehe, Glad to hear that.
Resentment Raised my prices💲 ®️👍‼ ..... ThankYou Dries✊🏾💵
💯resentment should raise your prices. Have a great weekend!
Thank you for this. Some of us needed to hear that our prices are justified. I will state my price and shut up. Lol I always feel the need in the past to defend my price. I have never used pricing formulas so I agree with you there.
State your price and shut up that's the spirit. Let's go you can do this Angela.
Thank you so much!! Your advice is amazing and I really appreciate it!!!
Totally. I’m so glad I came across your channel. You make complete sense. 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼
Complete sense is my middle name. Thanks thanks thanks
Love this - thank you. I’ve subscribed for more of your advice
Thank you! I needed to hear this! I had people try to shame me about my price!
Don't let them decide what the price should be for sure. You got this.
Thanks for this video. Your pricing should be based on your investment of creativity and ability. Galleries take a 50% profit. It's not a good business model. You have to decide if you want to establish a relationship with buyers/collectors. If not, let the galleries make your pricing decisions.
Why would you say it's not a good business model?
@@driesketels A 50% take of the sale price is downright abusive! To get my work in a gallery, they will have to beg me, I will double my price, and if they can't sell it in a month, I'll pull it. But I'm old and cranky ;) I really enjoyed your video.
@@gspurlock1118 Galleries can go stuff it as far as I'm concerned. I'm in my 80s, still painting and if someone wats to pay my price, fine. If not fine. :) so I say good for you and keep on painting.
@@yarrowbumblefoot8877 LOL I agree.
I feel I’m at a disadvantage because although I come from a very artistic family I never had formal training. I won an award for most promising artist at my school but other than that I never studied art at art school. Now I’ve taken it up again I’ve been told I have a real talent but I hear that people only want to invest money in well known artists (which is understandable) so you cannot justify raising your prices unless you put yourself about which I’m not good at!
I’ve joined an art society recently to give me the opportunity to exhibit my work but as for pricing I’ve no idea where to start.
I understand the notion of having a name for yourself and raising prices based off that. However that’s not liable until you make a name for yourself, don’t price yourself based on recognition, but instead skill. The more skilled you are, the more sought out you are.
You don’t need art school. The only actual benefit of an art school is connections and networking, or just meeting like minded individuals, but you can do that anywhere so you have to put yourself out there. I think your only problem is confidence in your abilities, the more confident you are the better. Don’t undersell your talent, people will pay well if they like and value your work, even if you don’t have a name for yourself. Something I hope you realize is that all the artist who have names for themselves have great art skills, or something unique to their art that makes them stand out. People focus more on the art than the artist, or to be more clear they notice the art first, if you have a good attitude and personality then people will look at the artist as well. That’s if you’re trying to make a following of some sorts. So being personable and honest helps with that greatly, but the first thing anyone will notice is your art first and foremost. So be skilled and keep practicing, I’m now starting that journey myself so wish the best for the both of us.
If you don't know where to start, this video is probably a good place If I may say so myself. Don't overthink things, you can always change your price later. Just start. and good luck with the exhibition .
Another good one, man. I stopped trying to sell my larger original works a few months back. I am now focusing on printing smaller drawings via woodcut or screenprint. Easier to price for me
Smaller works can be easier to price and sell for sure. Good luck with them and have a great weekend.
i completely agree with you. i think you can use a pricing model at first if you are just starting out, then see how it works for you based on demand, and lower or raise your prices accordingly!
That's exactly right! Have a great day.
this video is amazing !! It feels like it's a lot about confidence. you have provided a lot of guidance thank you :)
You're so welcome Theodora!
I needed to hear this, thank you so much!
You're welcome Laura
Dries, I am not a beginner by any means, but I watch some of your videos because I like your approach to art and some of your viewpoints.
I appreciate that
Wow, best video. Automatic subscribe! 🔥
awesome! totally agree with you Dries... i just use my instinct and like you say if it feels wrong then I raise the price. thanks*
If it feels wrong there is something wrong.
You make really good videos, definitely, a thumbs-up, and subscribed.
Thanks and Looking forward to seeing you around Olivier
I exhibited my artwork for the first time last week, I had no idea how much to charge and saw as an opportunity to see what the craic is, so I went high, well, what I thought was high. The organisers suggested artists charge between £40-£100, I went £75-£150, it was a gut feeling. Because my price range was greater than the majority for some weird reason my exhibits drew in more interest. Of the five exhibits I sold three, all of which were priced over £100, one client said she would have paid double!!! I didn't mind because it took me no more than an hour to paint and the frame was a knock-off from a charity shop which I tarted up, it was also my least favourite. Looking around the gallery my artwork wasn't half as good as most on display, many of which were grossly undervalued IMO. The point I am trying to make is this, set yourself above the run of the mill prices, oh and have a mindset of the paintings are coming home with you - if they sell they sell, if they don't they don't.
Oh, I forgot to mention, the lady who would have paid double has contacted me to do a triptych, during the negotiation over price I said I would normally charge around a hundred quid a painting but seeing how she is inclined to pay double (she laughed) we agreed on a min. £500 and max. £650.
This is perfect. Thank you so much!
Glad you like it! Have a great evening
Lol! Charge for resentment!!! Wow I want to believe everything you are saying is true. I got burnt out bc I was competing with diy jewelry makers on Instagram. I have been feeling compelled to make my prices make me feel good which would be too high for my current followers but I have been nervous to make this statement. This is exactly what I needed to hear. ❤️❤️❤️❤️
You got this Superstar!
So spot on thank you for the information still trying to find what I should sell for
You got this! Sometimes when you're not really sure you just have to go in and make some mistakes and then adjust course based on the market feedback. There is no shame in pricing your art and then changing your mind several months later. Just start doing! You got this!
Thank you I will sold my 1st 3 paintings this month
Art is a fickle world. I have had a gallery owner who wanted to hang my paintings. He asked how much I wanted, he then added his commission. Another gallery owner I approached he looked at my art and prices and said they were too cheap and he could not make a living out of them. The best gallery is the Mall Galleries in London, their minimum price for paintings accepted is £600 regardless of the size.
Amazing video, gave me a new perspective!
new perspective is the stuff. Let's go new brain.
Thank you very much for this information, you are the best
So nice of you, and I'm sure you'll find you crew very soon... keep putting yourself out there Ugo, you are worthy of finding connection and friendship, don't think otherwise! We got this!
@@driesketels thank you 🙏
TYFS! Very informative 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽💯😁
Glad it was helpful!
This is interesting. Basically I am making the decision what to price my paintings right now. It's like asking what my time is worth. And apparently I'm doing something in a way no one does. The comment I hear most often is WOW. I am not getting any sleep for a few days. And who decided you have to name them? I just want to paint. Will someone come gesso for me? lol Wednesday I take a group of my paintings to Gulfport. Wish me luck!
Great advices thank u 😊
Inspiring pieces of advice.
Glad you think so!
Great advise here
The Mona Lisa _doesn't_ have an arbitrary value though. It is extremely possible to put a price tag on it, which these days is largely defined by its insurance. Taking inflation into account, the Mona Lisa is worth around $860 million in today's money. The indirect value to the French economy is even higher, at around 3 billion euros annually (tourism and what else these people spend their money on when paying a visit to see the Mona Lisa during their stay).
How do you arrive at 860$ million? She brings in ticket sales alone over 100 million in passive income for the Louvre museum every single year...
So interesting, thanks for this
Glad you enjoyed it
oh I am really feeling what this guy has to say!
You are way too kind Carla.
thank you so so much!! :)
You're welcome!
Great stuff
Thanks Justin
Set your price remembering your time and materials, be firm, and if they don’t like your price. Tell them to go out and get art supplies, and paint it yourself.
Exactly what i need.
You're welcome
That is why you count the quantitative that inherently comes with the material condition of original work. Paint has a price. Paper has a price. Brushes, pens, papers and canvases have a price. Perhaps, it is too rash to say time is money.
Then how do u know your covering your costs properly and having a proffit
Could you be a bit more specific?
@@driesketels LOL. More specific? Listen, I would trust your speech if when you started, you could do it with the same pricing ideas.
@@nacemoslibres “Listen” so rude
Thank you .
You are welcome!
I tried the formula method of pricing and it terribly failed.. I ended up pricing my art by estimation.. I agree what you said... thank you for the video..!
Thanks for sharing!
👏👏👏
You got this Laura
Your website has a few problems that could be costing you sales. Firstly your security certificate expired over a month ago so it is difficult to get onto the site. Secondly the “about” section still has the Latin placeholder instead of your text. Every time I hit “Shop” the only page that opens is “Masks”. At the bottom of the mask page is the heading for mugs but isn’t linked to anything. CR Wally want to see some of your art. There should also be a link on your web page to your RUclips channel. There is a link on your RUclips video to your website but the website has these problems.
You can't sell art for 50 euros? Actually, you very much can and you are more likely to sell to a certain mainstream audience of cheapskates (no disrespect intended, but those buyers would simply never spend 500 or 5000 euros on art), however it would be like putting a shotgun to your feet and pull the trigger expecting nothing to happen lol. The big problem with _any_ debate about pricing formulas is how those formulas are meant for 'beginner grade' art works and people trying to sell their first artworks. It is not about properly valuing art itself, as really anything can be worth a ridiculous amount of money provided there's one lost soul willing to spend the money. If an artwork is priced at 10.000 euros, yet it never sells, _it simply is not worth 10.000 euros in all likelihood_ . No one claims the 50 euros priced artwork could never be worth more than the asking price. But everyone will understand how a beginner grade painting could never compete in a market where a higher price also needs to go along with much much higher quality art. The biggest problem with people trying to sell their art is in how a lot of (beginner) art is perhaps not good enough to sell. And even high end artists will have their fair share of unsold art pieces. The latter actually is a reason to go with a higher base line price for your art, instead of trying to match the material cost + labour and then that's your price. Last but not least, pricing formulas can be based on the size of the painting you are selling and it would apply in the exact same way as the more 'commercial' approach of selling derivative works, whether in concept or subject matter and style. Oh and just for the sake of argument, you _can_ put a bidding race into a mathematical formula. You'd get something like for n number of bids, provided a threshold value to beat the previous bid, taking into account how deep the pockets of the collectors go, you'd get a baseline price + chance of a bidding war race. The fun thing about math is it can literally describe anything. Heck, there are people in real estate who's literal job is to figure out the optimal bidding strategy to 'always win' buying houses, without going bankrupt. Sometimes it involves an early 'bully offer', preemptively offering quite a lot more than the auction starting price. Sometimes it just involves being the final one to make an offer in the race or having the deepest pockets. It is the good old 'hot market + low inventory = multiple offers' type stuff. And when people try to sell old cars at an auction for example or artworks from someone who has an established name in the industry, it can be fairly possible to accurately predict how high bidding races will go within certain margins. Some artists out there, the current rockstars in terms of selling art, never even sell art _without_ a bidding war at the auction. In terms of math, I'd suggest to look into auction theory, the applied branch of economics which deals with this very topic. Including a lot of very solid math.
Thanks for your valuable and toughtful comment. I like the mathematical formula for a bidding race... It sounds interesting. I would love to dive deeper into it but I'm afraid my math wouldn't allow me to understand it. But thanks for the recommendation!
Hope your comment gets some upvotes since I believe it could help some art people out.
@@driesketels Thanks, I appreciate it. Keep making videos, it's good stuff! Hope I didn't come across as too negative.
Thanks
You're welcome.
Did you read the book "The Value of Art" ? :D
Yes I did... Great book... I have mentioned the book in one of my other videos on this channel as well
Dries Ketels Haha cool I could tell from what you said. I am just reading it now. Question, I have a guy who is interested in my art, he even knows which one he likes. Now, last Saturday we should have met, but I needed to reschedule last minute because of a work emergency. I called him and explained - he said no problem. Then he said he will ask his friend who has the car when he can come to my gallery. The next day I made him a voice message and till now I didn’t hear back from him. What would you do next if you were in my shoes?
That's a lot for the comment section so I would suggest doing a quick call. We can do a free 20-30 minute consultation where you can ask all your business related questions. Send me a private message ("hey Dries, I'm in for a free 20 minute consultation. Let's pick a date") on Instagram, Facebook or anything like that.
@@driesketels Thanks man. It's already solved. He actually came two weeks ago and bought a painting for 2k :)
Sounds great Oliver. If you ever need some extra help. Just hit me up on IG or something.
2:03 never validate bad customers
The worst formula is for an expert who doesn't care about the valued work to give an estimate for how much it's worth.
If you have to ask the price of the art piece you cant afford it! Artist don’t settle for less
Haha... Love that
state your price and shut up.. my favourite rule ^-^
important rule
Really good video.. interesting. Keep it up friend.. wenna be a friend..
Thanks and sure lets be friends. Nice to e-meet you.
wow didn't realize how much Imposter syndrome I have.
Sometimes you need a 3th eye perspective to see the obvious things.
I guess,if you do one of a kind..
Pricing formulas don't work for anything fine art related
I guess we have to know our value. That's right.
Charge what you're worth!