I really like how you do these reviews/overviews live with the device. Seeing how the Zoom F-Control reacts to your voice as you talk about it feels a lot more informative than the other type of review where people use B-roll to show the device and then talk over it. I'm sure that's not an issue to most people but for someone like me who has trouble staying focused, this is a lot easier to follow when the audio and video are in sync.
Thanks for the overview Curtis... I like the idea of having the control surface for quick set up and adjustments. Definitely better than trying to use the the small knobs and buttons on the F8/F4. With that said I would never personally try to mix anything during a take. I would use this to get all my levels set for each individual track and mix in post. Of course I am coming from the audio side with this. When recording in a large studio I set up all the mics for each instrument, set levels appropriately, and then let the band do its thing. (in this case, the talent) For me the time in post for only a couple tracks is pretty much nothing and you have so much more versatility in post. Not to mention the end product will be so much cleaner. Just sharing my perspective. Keep up the great videos Curtis I always enjoy watching. Edit: You know what this unit needs? 48V phantom power buttons for each channel. Cheers, Greg
Actually, no it does not need to have individual 48V Phantom power buttons for each channel. That feature is conveniently located in the 'Menu' which can be accessed from the menu/selection mechanism located on the control section of the F-Control or, just press the PFL button over each channel which will bring you to that channels configuration and quickly navigate from there. Once you setup your inputs (like any audio console) there is little (no?) need to turn on/off Phantom power during a recording.
Hey! You are right it doesn't need them. However I am an audio engineer and mixing boards have individual 48V phantom power switches on each channel with a red led indicator. (like the indicators on the F8) I am used to having the tactile experience and the visual ques of an LED. When setting things up a button means no menu diving. For me it would make things simpler and more streamlined. I guess it just depends on your work flow and personal subjectivity. Cheers, Greg
Greg Allen same here. I think zoom was looking pretty closely at sound devices when they firmwared this, because my 664 is the same - the phantom power activation is in the pfl-switch accessed menu.
Thanks Greg. Yes, mixing during a take requires some pretty polished chops. For those of us who have the luxury of mixing in post, it may not even be worth the trouble. But if you are magic or you're working a production where they need usable audio for dailies right after the day is wrapped, mixing while tracking is a good skill to have. As for phantom power, I agree, would be nice to get away from menu diving. I suppose at some level there is a balance a designer has to strike with devices like this. From what I can see so far, it is not possible to use the user assignable keys to control phantom power.
A lot of productions would prefer to have a mix that is close to useable and consistent levels in post, and they can use the ISOs if possible for fine tuning.
Curtis thanks so much for this review. I wasn’t even aware of this mixer but it will be perfect for me to do my interviews with multiple people at the same time. I would highly recommend anyone who watches Curtis’s video’s to subscribe. The information given and honest real world uses is so valuable. Cheers, Pete
For me, recording proper levels is always something that is critical on location. But once you have 3 or 4 open mics close together, the echo between them becomes a real issue. Not to mention editing them all in post. Urrrr! I do like my dumb midi mixer. Works great for long form talking heads of 2 or more. It's called a Korg NANOKONTROL2 - and it's not anything to brag about - but it works. (no affiliation)
What advantage does this kind of setup have over a Mic + Audio Interface + Logic Pro X / Pro Tools running on a MacBook. I was using the AT899 + Tascam DR-60D setup earlier but i have recently migrated to a AT899 + Roland UA-55 Quad Capture Audio Interface + Logic Pro X setup and this gives me amazing control over everything. A compact macbook/macbook air would take as much space as that Zoom F-Control + Keyboard but provide more features compared to this setup is what i feel. I would love to hear your thoughts on this.
I think both are legitimate solutions and come down to personal preference. I really, really like the benefits of physical faders when mixing. I have found it far more difficult to use a mouse to attenuate a channel in real-time or even in post processing when I want to fine-tune/automate volume or effects. But again, plenty of people make great recordings without physical faders. I would only suggest you try them some time when/if the opportunity arises.
Hi Curtis, This was an excellent review and demonstration as per usual.... thanks for doing this. I noticed that you can get your "FADERS" on the "FRC-8" to control the volume on the mics and the meters.....can you tell me what settings you go in to make that happen please as I would like my "FADERS" to control the overall input volume like on a mixing board and I cannot seem to do it. Thanks in advance.
A few things I'd like to know as an F8 owner: 1) How does it connect to the F8? What connections are necessary and/or possible, what cable lengths are possible and/or convenient to work with. Is wireless connection an option? 2) How does one attach a keyboard? Is a special keyboard required? Will a cordless USB dongle keyboard work? How many special keys or characters are recognized by the device? i.e. Are other characters than the English a-z possible in file- or track names? (I don't expect that, but it would be nice - like hyphens or maybe even Danish/German/French/Spanish letters or diacritics). 3) How about a case or maybe a dust or rain cover? Is it at all suitable for outdoor work? 4) How well does it cope with coffee being spilled on it? (Okay, maybe you shouldn't test that ....only a joke).
Hello Lau. 1) it connects via USB 2 cable. I've run USB about 4 meters without a problem. 2) You attach the keyboard via the second USB port on the back of the F-Control. All that is required is a USB keyboard that does not have any fancy additional features like an integrated USB hub. I'll have to check on whether other characters are possible. 3) It does not appear to be specially weather sealed for use in wet conditions but it is suitably rugged for outdoor use when the weather is not wet. 4) I don't know but I would be happy to see your video test of coffee spills. ;-)
Thanks for the reply. And "thanks" for having once again tickled my G.A.S.(1) with a new temptation. Un?fortunately I will have to pass on it, at least for now. (1) Gear Acquisition Syndrome. By the way: Luckily I never drink coffee :-)
Your videos are very informative. Thanks! It’s a bit of a disappointment that I can’t use the f8n as an audio interface anymore with the F-control. I hoped I could use the set up as a compact solution to route some of my usb channels to one of the faders as well. I worked with the f8n while streaming with students, online classes music production and podcasts. I might have to grab a Zoom livetrak for this
Hi Curtis, great video! I'm considering buying F-Control to use with my F8, but I usually utilize the internal microphone of the recorder to give instructions to my boom ops. Do F-Control have some internal mic or some option for these situations? Or would I have to keep using the mic the F8 provides? Thanks!
Hi Curtis. Re the Zoom F-Control for F4. Any details you can show about this unit would be most appreciated. I am a film maker and will be using the F4 with a Panasonic gh4 4k video camera. Can the F control synch up time code from the camera for synching in post? Can you show how this is done and not just talk about it? Can you show how the feature buttons in the F control actually work and not just say what they do, but show it? Anything you can show vs. just saying "it can do this" helps me better understand how to use the gear. Thank you, Curtis.
+Jon Henn hi Jon, the F-Control is nothing more than a set of controls to make using the Zoom F4 or F8 audio recorders a little easier to use. On its own it has nothing to do with syncing or timecode or cameras. For a demonstration on how timecode works, you may find this helpful: ruclips.net/video/KpJql4ojm50/видео.html To learn the basics on how to set up a Zoom F8 to record audio: ruclips.net/video/KpddKcP8_SA/видео.html
What happens when the mixer gets disconnected (and reconnected) to the main unit? If the same things happen like in the Sound Devices MixPre models with eg Novation Launch Control, where the MixPre will jump to the prior on-board levels when the mixer is disconnected, or, even worse, the level & pan values get zeroed out upon reconnecting the mixer (= no sound) then its a no go for me.
Is it possible to take a different output from the f4/f8 and input that to the f control? I know the f8s headphone preamp leaves a little to be desired, so curious to see if you can route the different outputs in place of the headphone output.
Hmm...the F-control's headphone jack is a passthrough but I don't know whether it is passive. I'm not sure and not sure I want to risk testing that. Probably best to contact ZOOM support to confirm.
I'm really wanting one of these zoom f8 setups mainly because GAS, lol. Actually, it looks like a great backup to a 664 or 688. I'd like to know about the faders and trim/gain, how "digital" they are as you work them. For instance, on the tascam you don't dare touch them once you hit record because you can hear the stepping. Also, the headphone output - it looks like it's just passing the audio from the hp amp in the f4/8 itself and controlling from the knob, so it's still the not-so-great monitoring, correct? Seems like I'd need a separate hp amp or another small mixer patched from the zoom output to get clean monitoring, or is the zoom hp amp not really so bad after all?
Hi Andin, This is exactly what I use as a backup to my 633 or for special cases where I need to record directly to a computer (use the F8 or F4 as an audio interface). The trim and faders are not stepping like the Tascam so not an issue at all. It is the same headphone amp, just passes through the F-Control. It isn't as good as Sound Devices but it is usable.
Hey Curtis, thanks for all that you do. I am trying to figure out if it’s possible to connect the FRC to my F8n via bluetooth if i plug a BTA-1 bluetooth adapter into my FRC.. any idea of this is possible? any advice you can offer is greatly appreciated 🙏
Hi Curtis, What you give to the "community RUclips" is great. I will mainly work on short films, with a boom operator and I would need a "control". My budget allows me to buy now an F4 with the F-Control. I don't need more than 4 or 6 inputs. I can also wait a few weeks and have a slightly higher budget. Do you encourage me to have the F4 and the F-Control (so 2 or 4 faders will be unusable) or wait a little and look for another solution. I want to have a good sound quality. (Sound Devices 633 is expensive for me) Thank you !
You've had this for a few years now. Since the Zoom F4/F8 also works with an ipad/bluetooth keyboard, would you really need a USB keyboard plugged in if you had the added ipad setup to rename tracks? And with further firmware updates, I was never clear on whether the F-control was updated to run off of the F8 USB power source. Would be nice.
Hi, it depends on whether you want a physical keyboard or are ok with a capacitive touch keyboard. Both are legitimate for different reasons. Only the F8n can supply power to the F-control. There is a hardware requirement there, evidently.
Hi Curtis! Can you tell me, if you attache the f controll to the f4, can you manage channel 5-6 with the controll panel? Cause, that's what you dont have on the recorder itself (I mean, it's hard to reach). Also for your knowledge, in another video you're complaining about that you can see the decibel scale only on the view where you see lr and main output. That is untrue, you can customise the views, and you see the scale with numbers as long as you dont add too many chanels to the view. Cheers ;)
Hi Bikalakat, thank you. You are right, I didn't realize that the meter views could be customized until it was pointed out to me a couple of months ago. Good catch. I will test to see if 5-6 can be controlled with the f-control when I get a few free minutes.
Yes, you can control input 5/6 with the F-Control. It appears to be a line level input but strangely also has a plugin power option. Are you running mics into 5/6?
+Curtis Judd Thanks for the info! I was imagining to let hf-s running through there like a g3, or something. Im not sure what plugin power is, i guess it works with these small condensator mices witch ment to be attached to a camera, or so. Good question, why it has plugin power if it cant handle mic level...
I would try first with a TRS to TRS 3.5mm cable. If that doesn't work (depends on how you set the output level on the H4n) you may need an attenuation cable like this: bhpho.to/2keLeV9 Best wishes!
Curtis, I'm a neophyte when it comes to sound and sound recording and my question may not fit. My question is, devices such as this combined with the Zoom F4 are design for people needing to recording multiple talents, such as eight people mic'd on a stage at a corporate event? Or, recording a large band and ever singer's mic? Does this make sense? My needs are two to three talents in a dramatic role...My camera on DSLRs and Panasonic GH4 (4K).
Hi David, Yes, this can work for any situation with two or more mics in any of the scenarios you mentioned. What this device allows you to do is create a mix so that you don't have to do the mixing in post production. This is especially helpful in cases where you need to deliver the finished video more quickly (less work in post/editing) or for more complex workflows like for films with a medium to large budget where the director needs/wants dailies and the sound mixer needs to deliver a stereo mix of all the mics for the daily screenings. I hope that makes sense!
Any chance you'll review the Tascam HS-P82 and its fader control attachment? Slightly pricer than the Zoom F8, and I'm eager to find out if it's worth the extra cost. Thanks for the excellent videos!
Hi David, probably not mainly because it is a significantly older unit and I don't have the budget to purchase or rent it. That said, it was somewhat popular earlier in its lifecycle so it probably is not a bad option over all.
Curtis Judd fingers crossed that Tascam will bring out an update to the Tascam HS-P82, was great for its time! But old now, & overtaken by the F4/F8. Time for an update from Tascam!
The big difference is size. The Peavey is huge compared to the F4 and F-Control and the price of the F4 and F-Control is about $650 more than just the Peavey. The Peavey is really made for live sound and the Zoom is made for recording sound for film and video. (note: You cannot use JUST the F-Control - it only works as an add-on to the Zoom F4 or F8). Good luck!
Curtis Judd Thank you for replying so quickly and being so knowledgeable and being able to convey that in more than just a word or one half coherent sentence, unlike many other RUclipsrs. A lot of people could learn a lot from your work ethic, respect, and communication skills. Most RUclipsrs and millennials lack these very basic skills. It very refreshing to find a channel like this.
Hi Curtis, I have a question. If I put the Zoom EXH-6 Dual XLR/TRS Input Capsule on the F-4, would it show up as 6 tracks recorder on the F-Control. Thank you, I really enjoy your review and tutorial. Most useful.
Hi Bibing, Yes, according to the Zoom documentation it should. When a mic capsule is connected the return inputs are disable and the zoom capsule becomes channels 5/6. I don't have one of the capsules here to test myself but that is how it should work according tot he docs.
I think it is good idea, but not sure why they don't integrate the whole thing with an app so you can see the display on a larger screen - I have trouble using those little displays. A keyboard seems like they made it easier- if it was integrated into an app - Renaming things would be a lot easier. Does this not work on the F6? Also punching in while recording seems like a no-brainer - when you were doing that you said you couldn't punch a track in because you were recording. I guess you could have in on some kind of standby and then engage the recording.
Hi Jim, yes, the F8 does have an iPad/iPhone app which also allows you to enter metadata. The only issue I had with the app is that mixing with a touch screen didn't work well. When I put my finger down to nudge one of the faders, it automatically jumped 3dB which is a bit much. I don't know whether this is an issue with touch screens or the app in particular, but a tactile surface works much better for finesse adjustments like that. Yes, you would arm the track and pull its fader all the way back before recording, then just push the fader up when you want to bring that mic in.
Curtis, What do you know about the possibility of Zoom adding via firmware update, the Dugan automix feature? This was just added to SD 633 via new firmware.
Hey Paul, I don't know whether there would be any hardware limitations. I think the bigger issue would be Zoom's willingness to license the Dugan auto mix technology. I assume they'd be more willing to make their own automixing algorithm since they're catering to a more price conscious set of customers. Will be interesting to see what happens!
I think your right that Zoom would make their own version. The automix feature has been a big hit for me when using SD 688. Now my 633 has this wonderful feature. Yea! Hope you like it too.
Thanks for the review. I was wondering about the power options. Is there a 4-pin hirose to DC adapter of some sort that would work with f control? Sort of like the one that comes with the f4?
No, but if you have an external battery powering the F4, that power carries through to the F-control so you don't need additional power for the F-control.
thanks for getting back to me. I was looking at the f8. I don't think that same solution would work since the f8 doesn't power the f control correct? I was doing some hunting and found this: www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1354594-REG/zoom_ad_19_power_adapter_with.html would it work?
Hi again Amir, just got back to the studio and checked, and yes, the F-Control does have a 4-pin Hirose input. And yes, the adapter you linked should work great. Good luck!
Hi Andri, yes, the F-Control recognizes inputs 5/6. When you turn one of them on, they both turn on and it looks like you can control their faders independently.
I've got an old stock HP keyboard that came with an older computer I'm going to try. I think the main thing is that you want something that doesn't have an integrated USB hub. So if there are no other USB ports on the keyboard, you should be good. I may be in the market for a smaller keyboard without the numeric pad (which I don't really need in this case).
Forgive me if this has been covered elsewhere, but I discovered that my imac keyboard which has two usb ports does work as long as the mouse is not actually connected.
hey Curtis, how you feel about the 4 additional faders that you don't use when on the F4? And every time you solo a channel that gets recorded, or you can bypass that? Thanks for the great videos!
Hi Fábio, I don't have a problem with the additional faders since the control surface was made to work with both the F8 and F4. Overall, it is probably more cost effective for them to produce one product to work with both of the F series recorders and that means lower price for us. I'm just guessing. I believe that when you set the PFL mode to PFL (vs. Solo), that it still records all of the channels and just changes what you hear in your monitoring headphones. Have you found differently?
Curtis Judd, i haven't been able to test this unit, but in your vídeo we're hearing the mixdown right? And when you press the PFL Button It sounds like only that channel gets recorded on the Stereo Mix when in solo. Am i right?
I just tested tonight and pressing the PFL button only alters what you hear in the headphones while recording. all other channels are still recording both to the ISO and stereo mix tracks.
Hi Curtis. One question regarding the mediocre quality of the headphone amp on the main unit. I assume that this simply takes the audio out from the F4 and doesn't have its own (better quality) headamp? I'm reserved about buying it if I can't accurately hear what changing my mic positions is actually doing.
Hi Martin, Correct, the F-control is a passthrough for the headphone so it does not have its own amplifier. I would call the headphone amp on the F4 and F8 adequate. It is a little on the bright side but is completely usable. Of course I would prefer it to have the same quality headphone amp as the Sound Devices 6 series, but it is completely usable and you can ascertain the types of things you need to when recording. I hope that makes sense. Best wishes!
On the subject of interface. When you use the F4 or the 8 as such, can it do full 192 224 bit recording? Also and this next question I'd aply to the H6 as well. How do you get all the channals to show up?
When in interface mode (and on Windows, with the ASIO drivers) it maxes out at 96kHz sample rate. But in my tests and other formal tests, humans generally cannot hear the difference between 48kHz and 96, much less 192.
Ah okay. Yeah the sample rate debate. I haven't done much recording with a pro device to really seriously take a stand. Perhaps not. But my final answer from me will have to wait til I can get a more proo recorder then the LS-14.
MrHamit64 If I may jump in here, as one who has explored the sample rates extensively, 192 is widely considered a complete waste of time and space by the great majority of professionals in the music production field. I hope you find this helpful.
Thanks. My hands are stupid large. Like, can't buy normal gloves large. I have to use tweezers to mix on my F8, so my new F-Control is awesome. Appreciate the videos. Thanks. Oh damn, I crushed the computer with my thumb.
are you using a 4 pin hirose?Just wondering if you can split up the power from a V mount to the zoom and also power the f control? or would you need two separate V mounts?
Yes, 4 pin hirose. If you have the F4, it can power the F-control via its USB connection so you do NOT need an additional battery. With the F8, this doesn't work but you can use a d-tap splitter and two d-tap to hirose adapters. Here's an example of a d-tap splitter: bhpho.to/2lUZNAT
Your review of the Zoom F8 was helpful in my decision to purchase that - and have been pleased with the results, so thanks for that! I have some multiple mic projects coming up where the F-Control would be beneficial, along with a keyboard. You mentioned that the one you had didn't work, possibly because it had a USB hub built in - did you find one that did work with the F-Control? Thanks!
Can you make short cut keys for turning on and off phantum? If so, I'm even more sold on these now. Cause that's aanother thing that's held me back from Zoom. The having to dive threw menus to just shut the phantum off. The LS-100 of Olympus like some of the Tascams has switches. Now kinda off topic, but have you seen the 100 MKIII? What make you of it? The thing that kinda pulls mee to that 1 is that it does 192 KHZ. But there's the thing that it doesn't support 6 XLRs like the H6 or the F4. Also It won't do the sound card thing.
I'll check that as I use it over the next few weeks. Note that turning phantom on and off isn't quite as maddening in the menus on the F4 and F8 because you can get there quicker with the PFL button for each channel. Perhaps the custom buttons will allow, I'll have to see. I have heard about the DR-100mkIII. Looks like an interesting kit. I don't have a lot of use for that form factor in my current work and it has a hefty price tag for a 2 input recorder, but does look interesting.
Ah yeah I totally forgot about the PFL keys. Now on the Tascam yeaah that's my beef too. I forget the exact price but it's similar to the H6 I seem to recall. Thing is that they have the pare of Omni mikes too. The bigger issue for me is that it won't do the audio interface thing. It would be cool to have a 102 KHZ 24 bits interface.
Yes, they're similar in price though I think you can now get the H6 for about $350 whereas the DR-100mkIII is currently around $400 amzn.to/2kKWyva Can you hear the difference between 192kHz and 48kHz? Most people cannot.
Hi Curtis, do you know if it's possible to use a Zoom F-Control on a Sound Devices MixPre-10 II? Are they compatible? I'm curious if you still get full functionality. I doubt it, but would still love to know this!
Hi Gus, no, the MixPre works with a series of 3rd party control surfaces detailed in the MixPre user guide available from the Sound Devices support page. We covered one of them here: ruclips.net/video/nRNykAonevw/видео.html
Watching this, it seems like using the faders has no control over the recording levels for the iso channels, only for the presence in the stereo mix. I'm looking at the level indicators as you make changes, and they seem independent of your manipulations. Surely this isn't right?
That is absolutely right! The faders only control how much of that channel is sent to the mix. So the mix level is the only thing affected when you move a fader.
I feel this would be a great equipment for those individual recording engineers. I sometimes do some recital recording with my own microphone. But I am considering that use F8, or recorder like that, for recording a recital so that I could get the file immediately after the recital, at least not all of the people need an editing. And this small controller could give a really easy to control microphone I use and the volume I want to. Really like it!
Hi Curtis, First many thanks for your great videos. I'm new to the Zoom F8 and have question regarding naming tracks. I also use a Joeco Black Box which names tracks and names appear with the track files when transferred to computer. However Zoom names the tracks in the LCD display but does not seem to name the track file which is a shame. The last job I did I had to rename all the tracks in the computer which is tyresome. Or am I barking up the wrong tree.
Hi Shahar, on the app for the F8, the faders didn't work very well for fine adjustment like they do on the F-control with physical faders. For example, on the app, when I place my finder on one of the faders to gently nudge it down, it initially jumps down -3dB all at once. You can finesse a physical fader much more effectively. That's not a huge deal in every case, but is a good reason for the F-control if you need that ability. You can rename tracks. See page 10 of the supplementary user manual for the v 2.0 firmware. Good luck!
The originally planned episode for this week failed at the last minute (issue with the product I was reviewing) so I punted and threw this one together at the last minute. :)
Dear Curtis usually you have very, very good videos, but in this one I was not able to get the point. What it is for (this 'machine')? Why would someone use it or need it at all? Maybe some pic how to connect everything and why, etc.? Otherwise I enjoy almost every video you make. Thank you. :)
Hello El Cachafaz, This is not a normal episode as I explained. The episode I worked on for about 10 hours over the course of the week did not work out because I discovered late on Saturday that there was an issue with the product I was reviewing. The point of this was to just give an overview of the F-Control product and explain why it can be helpful in some circumstances to have a mixing control surface and the advantages of mixing over just simply setting levels and hitting record. I'll be back with the regularly produced episodes soon. Thanks.
Very interesting addition to the F4 and F8 for sure! :-) Curtis, have you considered doing a review of the new Rodelink Newsshooter Kit? I'm curious as to how quiet or noisy the preamp in the XLR transmitter is. I really liked how you compared the noise levels of the preamps in the Tascam 60D MKII, Zoom F4 and Sound Devices 633 in your final review of the F4. I guess one could test the noise level of the preamp in the Newsshooter by hooking its receiver up to the SD 633 and recording without a microphone and then repeating the recording at the same gain level without the Newsshooter and compairing the results? The difference ought to be the extra noise introduced by the Newsshooter preamp or at least the whole Newsshooter system, right? Just a suggestion if you happen to be interested in the Newsshooter yourself. I enjoy following your channel. So much useful information :-)
Curtis Judd I have been using the usb from F8 to plug in a iPhone for mix output for b roll with iPhone video. Now I purchased the controller and have to connect the usb to it. How can I share usb with iPhone also?
Your sound is always so good! I'm curious how you get such a strong signal in post when your recording meters are hovering around -24dB to -18dB, and sometimes even lower?! I watched your previous videos where you talk about targeting -12dB. Are you normalizing in post? Do you have a video that goes over your post settings and effects, such as compression, eq, etc? Cheers!
+Ben McCartney hi Ben, I definitely do normalize in post. This is a longer piece but we cover it here as I recall: ruclips.net/video/MJSNe28su4k/видео.html
hi curtis what is your configuration for zoom f4 and frc in this video? I want to handle the fader separately from the tracks but it's all together. Is it posfader or prefader? Thank you
Hi Miguel, I busted used the default configuration. The dials control gain trim, the individual channel faders define how much of that channel is sent to the stereo mix. Is that what you meant?
Is the headphone out from the F-Control, better than the on inside the F8? I have recently picked up a Sound Devices MixPre-D dual channel preamp (no recording). Am planning on using that to feed the F8 for 2 channels, and buy an F-Control, to round off my recording cart. Any comments would be appreciated. ps: I am right that if you have an F-Control, then the only benefit of using a Bluetooth connected iPad is the wireless remote capability? Will the F8 allow bluetooth is the F-Control is connected, or is it an either/or option? Thanks Curtis for your excellent reviews!
Hi RemekTek Media, Thanks! The headphone out on the F-Control gets a feed from the headphone output on the F8 so it is exactly the same - it just passes the signal through (the F-Control comes with a 1/4" to 1/4" TRS cable that you run from the F8 headphone out to a headphone in on the back of the F-Control). That should be a good setup for a cart. Out of curiosity, you added the MixPre-D for the preamps and limiters? Should all work fine. Assuming that you feed line level from the MixPre to the F8, you'll need the cable into the F8 to be 1/4" TRS (that is how the F8 recognizes the input as line level). Regarding the bluetooth app, it allows you to remotely control and watch meters as well as enter metadata (though with the F-Control, you can add a physical keyboard to accomplish the same thing.) Unfortunately, you cannot use the bluetooth app at the same time as the F-Control. Happy recording!
Hello Curtis, I've been watching your review's on your F8/F4 zoom recorder for some time now. Knowing that this has the capability to record sound for larger cinematic approaches, but what a bout recording a band in studio ? Drums, Vocals, Guitar and Bass ? Does this recorder have the ability to record all ? or would the drums have to be done separately, then guitar, vocals, bass ect. ? I'd like some insight! Thank you!
Hi Greg, if you're recording with microphones, the F8 or F4 will work nicely. It does not support input from passive instruments like bass. You would still have to amp it. But keyboards, external mixers or most microphones would work great. And no, you can record all the instruments simultaneously as long as you have 8 or fewer mics (with the F8) or 4 with the F4. Best wishes!
Hi! I have srange problem with second-hand F-Control. Everything seems to work fine, but it doesn't power on when I press power button, only when I physically plug power source; regardless if it is connected to F8 or not. Powering off with a button on auto-powering off when I turn off the F8 works just fine. Is it a bug or a feature? Anyone knows?
@@curtisjudd Batteries are OK. Fully charged eneloops. It's the same with powebank. The unit is defective. It has been being fixed before. It also cannot be powered off while plugged to F8 and powers off when unplugged from F8, despite staying connected. Luckily everything else works OK. I just got answer from Zoom to contact service.
@@curtisjudd Hi again! Sorry to bother you but Zoom just put me down. My FRC-8 stopped working soon after you replied. It turned out that battery was depelted after around 12h of... it being switched off! My serviceman told that the device takes 100mA of power all the time as if it was turned on and working although it is black and unresponsive. Do you know about any feature/setting of this device (say controlled from Zoom F8 level) that I could have messed up so that it behave that way?
The current price on amazon ($350) seems way over the top. I don't think I'd ever pay more than, say $100 for what is after all only a control unit. And it doesn't even seem to fit into the Zoom PCF-8 bag :-( Can it do anything else besides control the F8 or F4? Apparently not. Now, if you could you use it to control your DAW computer software, it would be a bonus. But it doesn't even seem possible to connect the F8 to a PC while hooked up to this device.
Correct, it is not intended as a control surface for DAWs. I spent the $350 USD so you don't have to. I'm quite happy with it so far, but it isn't for everyone.
I agree. It is interesting unit but it is insanely overpriced. Be aware that livetrak L-12 cost only $150 more. You cannot even try to compare them, the latter being powerful tool by itself. For $350 you can have great 8-channel DAW controller with tonnes of features and motorised faders and it Will be essential in your workflow. Here you have simple remote controller that will be used moderately ofen at most. F4 and F8 are field devices after all. The price made it a niche product. Zoom's policy: inexpensive gear, expensive accessories.
Hi James, thanks. I covered a few different types of batteries you can use to power the Sound Devices MixPre with a hirose cable. You can see the links in the description of this video: ruclips.net/video/4a_AP9JbgJg/видео.html
I would buy this if it had Bluetooth. I sometimes film panel discussions, and would like to leave the F8 up front near the panelists so I can run wired mics into it, and have the FRC-8 at the back of the room so I can adjust the mix going out to a livestream, etc. And yes, I know I can use the iOS app for that, and I have in fact used it. But I want the tactile control offered by the FRC-8, and I find the app clumsy and imprecise. Zoom: Are you listening?
Interesting idea! I'm guessing that if they did something like this, we still couldn't support monitoring via bluetooth but remote control would be nice.
Nice enough to make me buy one. BTW I love your channel and have learned plenty by watching your videos. I make sure to always watch the ads...my way of paying you for your work. And my next purchase will be via one of your affiliate links.
And just to clarify my original post re my panel setup...the F8 is up front being fed into by wired mics; I plug a wireless mic transmitter into the F8's sub out (sending a mix of all mics), and the receiver is at the back feeding into one of my cameras. The audio then feeds via an HDMI cable out from the camera and into a switcher (Roland V-1HD), then to my streaming device (Teradek VidiU Pro), and out to the stream. Having an FRC-8 at the back would give me precise control over the stream audio (individual mic mix and also overall level), and since I record each mic on its own track in the F8 I still have the option to do an edited video with even better audio after the event. BluetoothBluetoothBluetooth.
I think it would be also a good idea to create an iOS app with similar controls, so that typing and pan and volumes could be controlled even from a distance and without spending 350$, Presonus and other companies do that already for their mixers, buying extra gear isn't always the best solution :)
Zoom recorders cant play tracks after they are removed and reintroduced to the SD cards. They need to allow that like Tascam does. Innovation is nice, product support is better.
I am a student that records lectures. As exams/finals approach I would like to reload files and use the H2n as a mobile player for their ability to play at faster speeds. Like a podcast.
No, don't spend if you don't need it! This is just FYI in case you find yourself in a situation where you'll be recording in situations where you'll be doing quick turn-arounds or working from a table or cart. If not, you know it is an option in the future in case you need it. :)
HelloSoundies , I currently don't own an F-series, but I've been thinking about it. I'm using S-sound devices, but I'm contemplating getting an F-series, Zoom, and an F-controller. I have a quick question: Can the Zoom and the controller be used together with the app, or do I have to choose between using the F-controller or the app? Any guidance would be appreciated as I make my decision.
I really like how you do these reviews/overviews live with the device. Seeing how the Zoom F-Control reacts to your voice as you talk about it feels a lot more informative than the other type of review where people use B-roll to show the device and then talk over it. I'm sure that's not an issue to most people but for someone like me who has trouble staying focused, this is a lot easier to follow when the audio and video are in sync.
Thanks for the feedback, much appreciated!
Thanks for the overview Curtis... I like the idea of having the control surface for quick set up and adjustments. Definitely better than trying to use the the small knobs and buttons on the F8/F4. With that said I would never personally try to mix anything during a take. I would use this to get all my levels set for each individual track and mix in post. Of course I am coming from the audio side with this. When recording in a large studio I set up all the mics for each instrument, set levels appropriately, and then let the band do its thing. (in this case, the talent) For me the time in post for only a couple tracks is pretty much nothing and you have so much more versatility in post. Not to mention the end product will be so much cleaner. Just sharing my perspective. Keep up the great videos Curtis I always enjoy watching.
Edit: You know what this unit needs? 48V phantom power buttons for each channel.
Cheers,
Greg
Actually, no it does not need to have individual 48V Phantom power buttons for each channel. That feature is conveniently located in the 'Menu' which can be accessed from the menu/selection mechanism located on the control section of the F-Control or, just press the PFL button over each channel which will bring you to that channels configuration and quickly navigate from there. Once you setup your inputs (like any audio console) there is little (no?) need to turn on/off Phantom power during a recording.
Hey!
You are right it doesn't need them. However I am an audio engineer and mixing boards have individual 48V phantom power switches on each channel with a red led indicator. (like the indicators on the F8) I am used to having the tactile experience and the visual ques of an LED. When setting things up a button means no menu diving. For me it would make things simpler and more streamlined. I guess it just depends on your work flow and personal subjectivity.
Cheers,
Greg
Greg Allen same here. I think zoom was looking pretty closely at sound devices when they firmwared this, because my 664 is the same - the phantom power activation is in the pfl-switch accessed menu.
Thanks Greg. Yes, mixing during a take requires some pretty polished chops. For those of us who have the luxury of mixing in post, it may not even be worth the trouble. But if you are magic or you're working a production where they need usable audio for dailies right after the day is wrapped, mixing while tracking is a good skill to have.
As for phantom power, I agree, would be nice to get away from menu diving. I suppose at some level there is a balance a designer has to strike with devices like this. From what I can see so far, it is not possible to use the user assignable keys to control phantom power.
A lot of productions would prefer to have a mix that is close to useable and consistent levels in post, and they can use the ISOs if possible for fine tuning.
Can you arm and disarm while not recording for a podcast? turn Mics on and off, like a Mixer without a recorder?
Hi Joe. While recording or while NOT recording? Not sure I understand.
@@curtisjudd you said you could not do anything while it was recording. What about not recording and using it as a regular mixer
@@Joeteck Sure, can do in that case!
@@curtisjudd Do you recomend getting the component? Is that a must have for doing a podcast, or are you better off with a basic mixer?
@@Joeteck Unless battery powering is critical for your podcast, I'd go with the RODECaster Pro instead: ruclips.net/video/BMfsjXASlgQ/видео.html
Curtis thanks so much for this review.
I wasn’t even aware of this mixer but it will be perfect for me to do my interviews with multiple people at the same time.
I would highly recommend anyone who watches Curtis’s video’s to subscribe.
The information given and honest real world uses is so valuable.
Cheers, Pete
Thanks Pete!
For me, recording proper levels is always something that is critical on location. But once you have 3 or 4 open mics close together, the echo between them becomes a real issue. Not to mention editing them all in post. Urrrr! I do like my dumb midi mixer. Works great for long form talking heads of 2 or more. It's called a Korg NANOKONTROL2 - and it's not anything to brag about - but it works. (no affiliation)
Great point George, another good reason to have controls like the faders on the F-Control or the Korg.
One of my friends has the Nanokontrol. It looked pretty useful, especially given its price!
Nice!...thanks
Is the headphone output any better than the one on the recorder?
Hi Darrell, no, it is just a pass through. Same headphone amp.
I wonder if the zoom l12 can be used in host mode for the field recorders
I don't believe so.
Thanks again for yet another informative video. I do not own a F-8 or F-4 yet, but these videos will help lead me in so easily whenever it happens.
+Pradeep Chakraverti thanks!
What advantage does this kind of setup have over a Mic + Audio Interface + Logic Pro X / Pro Tools running on a MacBook.
I was using the AT899 + Tascam DR-60D setup earlier but i have recently migrated
to a AT899 + Roland UA-55 Quad Capture Audio Interface + Logic Pro X setup and this gives me amazing control over everything.
A compact macbook/macbook air would take as much space as that Zoom F-Control + Keyboard but provide more features compared to this setup is what i feel.
I would love to hear your thoughts on this.
I think both are legitimate solutions and come down to personal preference. I really, really like the benefits of physical faders when mixing. I have found it far more difficult to use a mouse to attenuate a channel in real-time or even in post processing when I want to fine-tune/automate volume or effects.
But again, plenty of people make great recordings without physical faders. I would only suggest you try them some time when/if the opportunity arises.
Curtis Judd totally agree with your reply.
Hi Curtis, This was an excellent review and demonstration as per usual.... thanks for doing this. I noticed that you can get your "FADERS" on the "FRC-8" to control the volume on the mics and the meters.....can you tell me what settings you go in to make that happen please as I would like my "FADERS" to control the overall input volume like on a mixing board and I cannot seem to do it. Thanks in advance.
The faders control the amount of that input that is sent to the stereo mix. That’s the default setting.
@@curtisjudd Many thanks for the clarification of this much appreciated.
A few things I'd like to know as an F8 owner:
1) How does it connect to the F8? What connections are necessary and/or possible, what cable lengths are possible and/or convenient to work with. Is wireless connection an option?
2) How does one attach a keyboard? Is a special keyboard required? Will a cordless USB dongle keyboard work? How many special keys or characters are recognized by the device? i.e. Are other characters than the English a-z possible in file- or track names? (I don't expect that, but it would be nice - like hyphens or maybe even Danish/German/French/Spanish letters or diacritics).
3) How about a case or maybe a dust or rain cover? Is it at all suitable for outdoor work?
4) How well does it cope with coffee being spilled on it? (Okay, maybe you shouldn't test that ....only a joke).
Hello Lau. 1) it connects via USB 2 cable. I've run USB about 4 meters without a problem. 2) You attach the keyboard via the second USB port on the back of the F-Control. All that is required is a USB keyboard that does not have any fancy additional features like an integrated USB hub. I'll have to check on whether other characters are possible. 3) It does not appear to be specially weather sealed for use in wet conditions but it is suitably rugged for outdoor use when the weather is not wet. 4) I don't know but I would be happy to see your video test of coffee spills. ;-)
Thanks for the reply. And "thanks" for having once again tickled my G.A.S.(1) with a new temptation. Un?fortunately I will have to pass on it, at least for now.
(1) Gear Acquisition Syndrome. By the way: Luckily I never drink coffee :-)
You should probably watch my other channel where we spend less time on gear reviews and more time on learning how to use gear. :)
Good point, Curtis. :)
Your videos are very informative. Thanks! It’s a bit of a disappointment that I can’t use the f8n as an audio interface anymore with the F-control. I hoped I could use the set up as a compact solution to route some of my usb channels to one of the faders as well. I worked with the f8n while streaming with students, online classes music production and podcasts. I might have to grab a Zoom livetrak for this
Thanks Rogier. Yes, bit of a feature oversight.
Is there a Tascam equivalent to Zoom F-Control for the DR-701D?
No, unfortunately there is not.
@@curtisjudd Thanks Curtis.
Hi Curtis, great video! I'm considering buying F-Control to use with my F8, but I usually utilize the internal microphone of the recorder to give instructions to my boom ops. Do F-Control have some internal mic or some option for these situations? Or would I have to keep using the mic the F8 provides?
Thanks!
Hi Bruno, no, you’d still be tied to using the F6’s microphone.
Nice thanks. The long awaited frc8.
You're welcome!
Hi Curtis. Re the Zoom F-Control for F4. Any details you can show about this unit would be most appreciated. I am a film maker and will be using the F4 with a Panasonic gh4 4k video camera. Can the F control synch up time code from the camera for synching in post? Can you show how this is done and not just talk about it? Can you show how the feature buttons in the F control actually work and not just say what they do, but show it? Anything you can show vs. just saying "it can do this" helps me better understand how to use the gear. Thank you, Curtis.
+Jon Henn hi Jon, the F-Control is nothing more than a set of controls to make using the Zoom F4 or F8 audio recorders a little easier to use. On its own it has nothing to do with syncing or timecode or cameras.
For a demonstration on how timecode works, you may find this helpful: ruclips.net/video/KpJql4ojm50/видео.html
To learn the basics on how to set up a Zoom F8 to record audio: ruclips.net/video/KpddKcP8_SA/видео.html
Not sure if you mentioned already but if I use an expansion capsule, will the control detect it as channel 5 and 6?
Oh, not sure, I don't have an expansion module on hand to test that. It should, but not certain. Zoom support should be able to confirm.
Very nice explanation of this set up.
Thanks Gary.
What happens when the mixer gets disconnected (and reconnected) to the main unit? If the same things happen like in the Sound Devices MixPre models with eg Novation Launch Control, where the MixPre will jump to the prior on-board levels when the mixer is disconnected, or, even worse, the level & pan values get zeroed out upon reconnecting the mixer (= no sound) then its a no go for me.
Not sure, will test it next time I set it up. You might contact Zoom support if you need the answer quickly.
Is it possible to take a different output from the f4/f8 and input that to the f control? I know the f8s headphone preamp leaves a little to be desired, so curious to see if you can route the different outputs in place of the headphone output.
Hmm...the F-control's headphone jack is a passthrough but I don't know whether it is passive. I'm not sure and not sure I want to risk testing that. Probably best to contact ZOOM support to confirm.
@@curtisjudd thanks for the quick response! I'll for sure do that
How will this work with the Rode NT-SF1?
I haven’t worked with the NT-SF1 but I assume all of the channels get linked so you’d use one fader.
Best video on the f-control 🔥
Thanks!
I'm really wanting one of these zoom f8 setups mainly because GAS, lol. Actually, it looks like a great backup to a 664 or 688. I'd like to know about the faders and trim/gain, how "digital" they are as you work them. For instance, on the tascam you don't dare touch them once you hit record because you can hear the stepping. Also, the headphone output - it looks like it's just passing the audio from the hp amp in the f4/8 itself and controlling from the knob, so it's still the not-so-great monitoring, correct? Seems like I'd need a separate hp amp or another small mixer patched from the zoom output to get clean monitoring, or is the zoom hp amp not really so bad after all?
Hi Andin, This is exactly what I use as a backup to my 633 or for special cases where I need to record directly to a computer (use the F8 or F4 as an audio interface). The trim and faders are not stepping like the Tascam so not an issue at all. It is the same headphone amp, just passes through the F-Control. It isn't as good as Sound Devices but it is usable.
Curtis Judd Perfect reply! Thanks, Curtis.
Hey Curtis, thanks for all that you do. I am trying to figure out if it’s possible to connect the FRC to my F8n via bluetooth if i plug a BTA-1 bluetooth adapter into my FRC.. any idea of this is possible? any advice you can offer is greatly appreciated 🙏
I don’t believe the FRC-8 will work with Bluetooth.
Hi Curtis,
What you give to the "community RUclips" is great.
I will mainly work on short films, with a boom operator and I would need a "control".
My budget allows me to buy now an F4 with the F-Control. I don't need more than 4 or 6 inputs.
I can also wait a few weeks and have a slightly higher budget.
Do you encourage me to have the F4 and the F-Control (so 2 or 4 faders will be unusable) or wait a little and look for another solution.
I want to have a good sound quality. (Sound Devices 633 is expensive for me)
Thank you !
You've had this for a few years now. Since the Zoom F4/F8 also works with an ipad/bluetooth keyboard, would you really need a USB keyboard plugged in if you had the added ipad setup to rename tracks? And with further firmware updates, I was never clear on whether the F-control was updated to run off of the F8 USB power source. Would be nice.
Hi, it depends on whether you want a physical keyboard or are ok with a capacitive touch keyboard. Both are legitimate for different reasons. Only the F8n can supply power to the F-control. There is a hardware requirement there, evidently.
Hi Curtis!
Can you tell me, if you attache the f controll to the f4, can you manage channel 5-6 with the controll panel? Cause, that's what you dont have on the recorder itself (I mean, it's hard to reach).
Also for your knowledge, in another video you're complaining about that you can see the decibel scale only on the view where you see lr and main output. That is untrue, you can customise the views, and you see the scale with numbers as long as you dont add too many chanels to the view.
Cheers
;)
Hi Bikalakat, thank you. You are right, I didn't realize that the meter views could be customized until it was pointed out to me a couple of months ago. Good catch.
I will test to see if 5-6 can be controlled with the f-control when I get a few free minutes.
Yes, you can control input 5/6 with the F-Control. It appears to be a line level input but strangely also has a plugin power option. Are you running mics into 5/6?
+Curtis Judd Thanks for the info!
I was imagining to let hf-s running through there like a g3, or something. Im not sure what plugin power is, i guess it works with these small condensator mices witch ment to be attached to a camera, or so. Good question, why it has plugin power if it cant handle mic level...
Hi curtis. what cable do i connect my zoom h4n pro to my camcorder with? do i connect it with a regular cable or one of those trs cables? thanks.
I would try first with a TRS to TRS 3.5mm cable. If that doesn't work (depends on how you set the output level on the H4n) you may need an attenuation cable like this: bhpho.to/2keLeV9
Best wishes!
Curtis Judd thanks so much curtis i love your helpful videos hope you keep on making them.
Curtis, I'm a neophyte when it comes to sound and sound recording and my question may not fit. My question is, devices such as this combined with the Zoom F4 are design for people needing to recording multiple talents, such as eight people mic'd on a stage at a corporate event? Or, recording a large band and ever singer's mic? Does this make sense? My needs are two to three talents in a dramatic role...My camera on DSLRs and Panasonic GH4 (4K).
Hi David, Yes, this can work for any situation with two or more mics in any of the scenarios you mentioned. What this device allows you to do is create a mix so that you don't have to do the mixing in post production. This is especially helpful in cases where you need to deliver the finished video more quickly (less work in post/editing) or for more complex workflows like for films with a medium to large budget where the director needs/wants dailies and the sound mixer needs to deliver a stereo mix of all the mics for the daily screenings. I hope that makes sense!
Thanks Curtis...You've given this neophyte more knowledge and understanding of the process end-to-end!!
Any chance you'll review the Tascam HS-P82 and its fader control attachment? Slightly pricer than the Zoom F8, and I'm eager to find out if it's worth the extra cost. Thanks for the excellent videos!
Hi David, probably not mainly because it is a significantly older unit and I don't have the budget to purchase or rent it. That said, it was somewhat popular earlier in its lifecycle so it probably is not a bad option over all.
Curtis Judd fingers crossed that Tascam will bring out an update to the Tascam HS-P82, was great for its time! But old now, & overtaken by the F4/F8. Time for an update from Tascam!
Is there a big advantage from buying the zoom f over a normal mixer? I was looking at the Peavey pv14at. Looking at the prices they're about the same.
The big difference is size. The Peavey is huge compared to the F4 and F-Control and the price of the F4 and F-Control is about $650 more than just the Peavey. The Peavey is really made for live sound and the Zoom is made for recording sound for film and video. (note: You cannot use JUST the F-Control - it only works as an add-on to the Zoom F4 or F8). Good luck!
Curtis Judd Thank you for replying so quickly and being so knowledgeable and being able to convey that in more than just a word or one half coherent sentence, unlike many other RUclipsrs. A lot of people could learn a lot from your work ethic, respect, and communication skills. Most RUclipsrs and millennials lack these very basic skills. It very refreshing to find a channel like this.
+FLOODOFSINS thanks! I really appreciate the feedback.
Hi Curtis, I have a question. If I put the Zoom EXH-6 Dual XLR/TRS Input Capsule on the F-4, would it show up as 6 tracks recorder on the F-Control.
Thank you, I really enjoy your review and tutorial. Most useful.
Hi Bibing, Yes, according to the Zoom documentation it should. When a mic capsule is connected the return inputs are disable and the zoom capsule becomes channels 5/6. I don't have one of the capsules here to test myself but that is how it should work according tot he docs.
Many thanks Curtis, I guess this is the economical option to have 6 tracks recorder.
@@curtisjudd and what about the gain setting? With exh-6 you set it manualy with knobs. I dont think it is possible to control it with FRC-8
@@przybylskipawel Good question Pawel, I don't know since I don't have an exh-6 here to test it. May be best to contact Zoom support for confirmation.
I think it is good idea, but not sure why they don't integrate the whole thing with an app so you can see the display on a larger screen - I have trouble using those little displays. A keyboard seems like they made it easier- if it was integrated into an app - Renaming things would be a lot easier. Does this not work on the F6? Also punching in while recording seems like a no-brainer - when you were doing that you said you couldn't punch a track in because you were recording. I guess you could have in on some kind of standby and then engage the recording.
Hi Jim, yes, the F8 does have an iPad/iPhone app which also allows you to enter metadata. The only issue I had with the app is that mixing with a touch screen didn't work well. When I put my finger down to nudge one of the faders, it automatically jumped 3dB which is a bit much. I don't know whether this is an issue with touch screens or the app in particular, but a tactile surface works much better for finesse adjustments like that. Yes, you would arm the track and pull its fader all the way back before recording, then just push the fader up when you want to bring that mic in.
Curtis, What do you know about the possibility of Zoom adding via firmware update, the Dugan automix feature? This was just added to SD 633 via new firmware.
Hey Paul, I don't know whether there would be any hardware limitations. I think the bigger issue would be Zoom's willingness to license the Dugan auto mix technology. I assume they'd be more willing to make their own automixing algorithm since they're catering to a more price conscious set of customers. Will be interesting to see what happens!
I think your right that Zoom would make their own version. The automix feature has been a big hit for me when using SD 688. Now my 633 has this wonderful feature. Yea! Hope you like it too.
Just updated the firmware on my 633 last night. Looking forward to giving it a try. Could be a huge help for some of my jobs!
Thanks for the review. I was wondering about the power options. Is there a 4-pin hirose to DC adapter of some sort that would work with f control? Sort of like the one that comes with the f4?
No, but if you have an external battery powering the F4, that power carries through to the F-control so you don't need additional power for the F-control.
thanks for getting back to me. I was looking at the f8. I don't think that same solution would work since the f8 doesn't power the f control correct? I was doing some hunting and found this: www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1354594-REG/zoom_ad_19_power_adapter_with.html
would it work?
Hi again Amir, just got back to the studio and checked, and yes, the F-Control does have a 4-pin Hirose input. And yes, the adapter you linked should work great. Good luck!
Great Curtis, thanks for confirming.
is that possible to put the 5/6 channel on the F4 to the individual track 5 and 6 chanel on the F4/F8 control surface ?, thanks curtis.
Hi Andri, yes, the F-Control recognizes inputs 5/6. When you turn one of them on, they both turn on and it looks like you can control their faders independently.
Which key board would you recommend to use with this Zoom F Control for the F4?
I've got an old stock HP keyboard that came with an older computer I'm going to try. I think the main thing is that you want something that doesn't have an integrated USB hub. So if there are no other USB ports on the keyboard, you should be good. I may be in the market for a smaller keyboard without the numeric pad (which I don't really need in this case).
Forgive me if this has been covered elsewhere, but I discovered that my imac keyboard which has two usb ports does work as long as the mouse is not actually connected.
That's a really cool device, I had no idea it existed. Could be great as a portable podcast studio.
Agreed! I'm excited to put it to use on upcoming jobs!
hey Curtis, how you feel about the 4 additional faders that you don't use when on the F4?
And every time you solo a channel that gets recorded, or you can bypass that?
Thanks for the great videos!
Hi Fábio, I don't have a problem with the additional faders since the control surface was made to work with both the F8 and F4. Overall, it is probably more cost effective for them to produce one product to work with both of the F series recorders and that means lower price for us. I'm just guessing. I believe that when you set the PFL mode to PFL (vs. Solo), that it still records all of the channels and just changes what you hear in your monitoring headphones. Have you found differently?
Curtis Judd, i haven't been able to test this unit, but in your vídeo we're hearing the mixdown right? And when you press the PFL Button It sounds like only that channel gets recorded on the Stereo Mix when in solo. Am i right?
I just tested tonight and pressing the PFL button only alters what you hear in the headphones while recording. all other channels are still recording both to the ISO and stereo mix tracks.
Curtis Judd, thank you very much for solving that one. And for replying! :)
Hi Curtis. One question regarding the mediocre quality of the headphone amp on the main unit. I assume that this simply takes the audio out from the F4 and doesn't have its own (better quality) headamp? I'm reserved about buying it if I can't accurately hear what changing my mic positions is actually doing.
Hi Martin, Correct, the F-control is a passthrough for the headphone so it does not have its own amplifier. I would call the headphone amp on the F4 and F8 adequate. It is a little on the bright side but is completely usable. Of course I would prefer it to have the same quality headphone amp as the Sound Devices 6 series, but it is completely usable and you can ascertain the types of things you need to when recording. I hope that makes sense. Best wishes!
My next addition to the Zoom family.
👍
On the subject of interface. When you use the F4 or the 8 as such, can it do full 192 224 bit recording? Also and this next question I'd aply to the H6 as well. How do you get all the channals to show up?
When in interface mode (and on Windows, with the ASIO drivers) it maxes out at 96kHz sample rate. But in my tests and other formal tests, humans generally cannot hear the difference between 48kHz and 96, much less 192.
Ah okay. Yeah the sample rate debate. I haven't done much recording with a pro device to really seriously take a stand. Perhaps not. But my final answer from me will have to wait til I can get a more proo recorder then the LS-14.
MrHamit64 If I may jump in here, as one who has explored the sample rates extensively, 192 is widely considered a complete waste of time and space by the great majority of professionals in the music production field. I hope you find this helpful.
Anybody know if the headphone amp in the F-Control surface is any better (ie more accurate) than the headphone amp on-board the F4 itself?
It is just a pass through so it is the same.
Thank you!
Thanks. My hands are stupid large. Like, can't buy normal gloves large. I have to use tweezers to mix on my F8, so my new F-Control is awesome. Appreciate the videos. Thanks. Oh damn, I crushed the computer with my thumb.
Haha! The F-Control definitely helps large hands!
are you using a 4 pin hirose?Just wondering if you can split up the power from a V mount to the zoom and also power the f control? or would you need two separate V mounts?
Yes, 4 pin hirose. If you have the F4, it can power the F-control via its USB connection so you do NOT need an additional battery. With the F8, this doesn't work but you can use a d-tap splitter and two d-tap to hirose adapters. Here's an example of a d-tap splitter: bhpho.to/2lUZNAT
Your review of the Zoom F8 was helpful in my decision to purchase that - and have been pleased with the results, so thanks for that! I have some multiple mic projects coming up where the F-Control would be beneficial, along with a keyboard. You mentioned that the one you had didn't work, possibly because it had a USB hub built in - did you find one that did work with the F-Control? Thanks!
Yes, an older HP keyboard without a USB hub I have works. Good luck!
Can you make short cut keys for turning on and off phantum? If so, I'm even more sold on these now. Cause that's aanother thing that's held me back from Zoom. The having to dive threw menus to just shut the phantum off. The LS-100 of Olympus like some of the Tascams has switches. Now kinda off topic, but have you seen the 100 MKIII? What make you of it? The thing that kinda pulls mee to that 1 is that it does 192 KHZ. But there's the thing that it doesn't support 6 XLRs like the H6 or the F4. Also It won't do the sound card thing.
I'll check that as I use it over the next few weeks. Note that turning phantom on and off isn't quite as maddening in the menus on the F4 and F8 because you can get there quicker with the PFL button for each channel. Perhaps the custom buttons will allow, I'll have to see. I have heard about the DR-100mkIII. Looks like an interesting kit. I don't have a lot of use for that form factor in my current work and it has a hefty price tag for a 2 input recorder, but does look interesting.
Ah yeah I totally forgot about the PFL keys. Now on the Tascam yeaah that's my beef too. I forget the exact price but it's similar to the H6 I seem to recall. Thing is that they have the pare of Omni mikes too. The bigger issue for me is that it won't do the audio interface thing. It would be cool to have a 102 KHZ 24 bits interface.
Yes, they're similar in price though I think you can now get the H6 for about $350 whereas the DR-100mkIII is currently around $400 amzn.to/2kKWyva
Can you hear the difference between 192kHz and 48kHz? Most people cannot.
Hi Curtis, do you know if it's possible to use a Zoom F-Control on a Sound Devices MixPre-10 II? Are they compatible? I'm curious if you still get full functionality. I doubt it, but would still love to know this!
Hi Gus, no, the MixPre works with a series of 3rd party control surfaces detailed in the MixPre user guide available from the Sound Devices support page. We covered one of them here: ruclips.net/video/nRNykAonevw/видео.html
Watching this, it seems like using the faders has no control over the recording levels for the iso channels, only for the presence in the stereo mix. I'm looking at the level indicators as you make changes, and they seem independent of your manipulations. Surely this isn't right?
That is absolutely right! The faders only control how much of that channel is sent to the mix. So the mix level is the only thing affected when you move a fader.
@@curtisjudd Thanks for clarifying!
I feel this would be a great equipment for those individual recording engineers. I sometimes do some recital recording with my own microphone. But I am considering that use F8, or recorder like that, for recording a recital so that I could get the file immediately after the recital, at least not all of the people need an editing. And this small controller could give a really easy to control microphone I use and the volume I want to. Really like it!
Yes, I'm looking forward to testing it more. Thanks!
Hi Curtis, First many thanks for your great videos. I'm new to the Zoom F8 and have question regarding naming tracks. I also use a Joeco Black Box which names tracks and names appear with the track files when transferred to computer. However Zoom names the tracks in the LCD display but does not seem to name the track file which is a shame. The last job I did I had to rename all the tracks in the computer which is tyresome. Or am I barking up the wrong tree.
You can rename the files. This piece where we use the app on an iPad demonstrates: ruclips.net/video/zRI9p5vZkL4/видео.html
Thanks for the overview Curtis!
You are most welcome, Kia!
Curtis, any chance this mixer would work with the Zoom H6?
Thank you, Pete
Hi Pete, unfortunately no, this is designed just for the F4 or F8.
Curtis Judd Thank You. I think the F4 would be a good investment for me.
Take care!
Pete
hi.what are the benefits in the controller compering to the app ?
and can i change track names? instead 123 to boom/ neck ...
Hi Shahar, on the app for the F8, the faders didn't work very well for fine adjustment like they do on the F-control with physical faders. For example, on the app, when I place my finder on one of the faders to gently nudge it down, it initially jumps down -3dB all at once. You can finesse a physical fader much more effectively. That's not a huge deal in every case, but is a good reason for the F-control if you need that ability.
You can rename tracks. See page 10 of the supplementary user manual for the v 2.0 firmware. Good luck!
thank
Normal publishing time, or working hard?
The originally planned episode for this week failed at the last minute (issue with the product I was reviewing) so I punted and threw this one together at the last minute. :)
Dear Curtis usually you have very, very good videos, but in this one I was not able to get the point.
What it is for (this 'machine')? Why would someone use it or need it at all?
Maybe some pic how to connect everything and why, etc.?
Otherwise I enjoy almost every video you make. Thank you. :)
Hello El Cachafaz, This is not a normal episode as I explained. The episode I worked on for about 10 hours over the course of the week did not work out because I discovered late on Saturday that there was an issue with the product I was reviewing. The point of this was to just give an overview of the F-Control product and explain why it can be helpful in some circumstances to have a mixing control surface and the advantages of mixing over just simply setting levels and hitting record.
I'll be back with the regularly produced episodes soon. Thanks.
Curtis Judd thank you for an answer. :) !
Great review. This joins the Zoom F4 on my 'wish-list'.
+spandana.music thanks!
Very interesting addition to the F4 and F8 for sure! :-)
Curtis, have you considered doing a review of the new Rodelink Newsshooter Kit? I'm curious as to how quiet or noisy the preamp in the XLR transmitter is. I really liked how you compared the noise levels of the preamps in the Tascam 60D MKII, Zoom F4 and Sound Devices 633 in your final review of the F4. I guess one could test the noise level of the preamp in the Newsshooter by hooking its receiver up to the SD 633 and recording without a microphone and then repeating the recording at the same gain level without the Newsshooter and compairing the results? The difference ought to be the extra noise introduced by the Newsshooter preamp or at least the whole Newsshooter system, right? Just a suggestion if you happen to be interested in the Newsshooter yourself. I enjoy following your channel. So much useful information :-)
Hi! Yes, the Newsshooter is on my list. Thanks!
Curtis Judd - Wonderful!😃 I'm looking forward that.
Can you plug an external monitor to Zoom F control?
Hi, no, the F-Control only has a headphone output but the F4 and F8 both have line outputs that can drive a powered monitor.
Curtis Judd I have been using the usb from F8 to plug in a iPhone for mix output for b roll with iPhone video.
Now I purchased the controller and have to connect the usb to it.
How can I share usb with iPhone also?
Your sound is always so good! I'm curious how you get such a strong signal in post when your recording meters are hovering around -24dB to -18dB, and sometimes even lower?! I watched your previous videos where you talk about targeting -12dB. Are you normalizing in post? Do you have a video that goes over your post settings and effects, such as compression, eq, etc? Cheers!
+Ben McCartney hi Ben, I definitely do normalize in post. This is a longer piece but we cover it here as I recall: ruclips.net/video/MJSNe28su4k/видео.html
hi curtis what is your configuration for zoom f4 and frc in this video? I want to handle the fader separately from the tracks but it's all together. Is it posfader or prefader? Thank you
Hi Miguel, I busted used the default configuration. The dials control gain trim, the individual channel faders define how much of that channel is sent to the stereo mix. Is that what you meant?
Hi curtis, if that was what I wanted to say. thank you very much.
Is the headphone out from the F-Control, better than the on inside the F8?
I have recently picked up a Sound Devices MixPre-D dual channel preamp (no recording). Am planning on using that to feed the F8 for 2 channels, and buy an F-Control, to round off my recording cart. Any comments would be appreciated.
ps: I am right that if you have an F-Control, then the only benefit of using a Bluetooth connected iPad is the wireless remote capability? Will the F8 allow bluetooth is the F-Control is connected, or is it an either/or option?
Thanks Curtis for your excellent reviews!
Hi RemekTek Media, Thanks! The headphone out on the F-Control gets a feed from the headphone output on the F8 so it is exactly the same - it just passes the signal through (the F-Control comes with a 1/4" to 1/4" TRS cable that you run from the F8 headphone out to a headphone in on the back of the F-Control).
That should be a good setup for a cart. Out of curiosity, you added the MixPre-D for the preamps and limiters? Should all work fine. Assuming that you feed line level from the MixPre to the F8, you'll need the cable into the F8 to be 1/4" TRS (that is how the F8 recognizes the input as line level).
Regarding the bluetooth app, it allows you to remotely control and watch meters as well as enter metadata (though with the F-Control, you can add a physical keyboard to accomplish the same thing.) Unfortunately, you cannot use the bluetooth app at the same time as the F-Control.
Happy recording!
As usual an excellent outline and looking forwards to a more in-depth examination with keyboard.
Thanks!
Hello Curtis, I've been watching your review's on your F8/F4 zoom recorder for some time now. Knowing that this has the capability to record sound for larger cinematic approaches, but what a bout recording a band in studio ? Drums, Vocals, Guitar and Bass ? Does this recorder have the ability to record all ? or would the drums have to be done separately, then guitar, vocals, bass ect. ? I'd like some insight! Thank you!
Hi Greg, if you're recording with microphones, the F8 or F4 will work nicely. It does not support input from passive instruments like bass. You would still have to amp it. But keyboards, external mixers or most microphones would work great. And no, you can record all the instruments simultaneously as long as you have 8 or fewer mics (with the F8) or 4 with the F4. Best wishes!
Hi! I have srange problem with second-hand F-Control. Everything seems to work fine, but it doesn't power on when I press power button, only when I physically plug power source; regardless if it is connected to F8 or not. Powering off with a button on auto-powering off when I turn off the F8 works just fine. Is it a bug or a feature? Anyone knows?
Perhaps the AA batteries are spent? If I have AA batteries in the unit and press the power button, it turns on as I recall.
@@curtisjudd Batteries are OK. Fully charged eneloops. It's the same with powebank. The unit is defective. It has been being fixed before. It also cannot be powered off while plugged to F8 and powers off when unplugged from F8, despite staying connected. Luckily everything else works OK. I just got answer from Zoom to contact service.
Ah, well, at least it works once powered up.
@@curtisjudd Yeah! I am glad too, but it genuinely puzzles me. How it is even possible? Maybe some short in powering circuit...
@@curtisjudd Hi again! Sorry to bother you but Zoom just put me down. My FRC-8 stopped working soon after you replied. It turned out that battery was depelted after around 12h of... it being switched off! My serviceman told that the device takes 100mA of power all the time as if it was turned on and working although it is black and unresponsive. Do you know about any feature/setting of this device (say controlled from Zoom F8 level) that I could have messed up so that it behave that way?
The current price on amazon ($350) seems way over the top. I don't think I'd ever pay more than, say $100 for what is after all only a control unit. And it doesn't even seem to fit into the Zoom PCF-8 bag :-(
Can it do anything else besides control the F8 or F4? Apparently not. Now, if you could you use it to control your DAW computer software, it would be a bonus. But it doesn't even seem possible to connect the F8 to a PC while hooked up to this device.
Correct, it is not intended as a control surface for DAWs. I spent the $350 USD so you don't have to. I'm quite happy with it so far, but it isn't for everyone.
I agree. It is interesting unit but it is insanely overpriced. Be aware that livetrak L-12 cost only $150 more. You cannot even try to compare them, the latter being powerful tool by itself. For $350 you can have great 8-channel DAW controller with tonnes of features and motorised faders and it Will be essential in your workflow. Here you have simple remote controller that will be used moderately ofen at most. F4 and F8 are field devices after all. The price made it a niche product. Zoom's policy: inexpensive gear, expensive accessories.
Great post! I would like more information/link to external battery power. Outstanding job!
Hi James, thanks. I covered a few different types of batteries you can use to power the Sound Devices MixPre with a hirose cable. You can see the links in the description of this video: ruclips.net/video/4a_AP9JbgJg/видео.html
Absolutely Awesome Video very much enjoyed.Thanks so much appreciate it Deb 👍
First class review again Thanks very much
Thanks!
I would buy this if it had Bluetooth. I sometimes film panel discussions, and would like to leave the F8 up front near the panelists so I can run wired mics into it, and have the FRC-8 at the back of the room so I can adjust the mix going out to a livestream, etc. And yes, I know I can use the iOS app for that, and I have in fact used it. But I want the tactile control offered by the FRC-8, and I find the app clumsy and imprecise. Zoom: Are you listening?
Interesting idea! I'm guessing that if they did something like this, we still couldn't support monitoring via bluetooth but remote control would be nice.
Nice enough to make me buy one. BTW I love your channel and have learned plenty by watching your videos. I make sure to always watch the ads...my way of paying you for your work. And my next purchase will be via one of your affiliate links.
And just to clarify my original post re my panel setup...the F8 is up front being fed into by wired mics; I plug a wireless mic transmitter into the F8's sub out (sending a mix of all mics), and the receiver is at the back feeding into one of my cameras. The audio then feeds via an HDMI cable out from the camera and into a switcher (Roland V-1HD), then to my streaming device (Teradek VidiU Pro), and out to the stream. Having an FRC-8 at the back would give me precise control over the stream audio (individual mic mix and also overall level), and since I record each mic on its own track in the F8 I still have the option to do an edited video with even better audio after the event. BluetoothBluetoothBluetooth.
Yes! You definitely need the simplicity of bluetooth with that setup.
Interesting, I wonder how long of an interface cable could be used?
What's the cost?
+Anthony Roberts $350 at the time of release. The link in the description will have the most up-to-date pricing info.
Cool thanks for the info.
Thank you for this!
You're welcome!
It looks like Zoom has come out with another well thought out and well priced unit. I notice you didn't even bother getting a loaner this time. :)
Haha! Yes, no loaner this time, I was certain I would be able to put this to use.
I think it would be also a good idea to create an iOS app with similar controls, so that typing and pan and volumes could be controlled even from a distance and without spending 350$, Presonus and other companies do that already for their mixers, buying extra gear isn't always the best solution :)
There is an iOS app for the F8 version. It shipped with it as one of its many features at launch.
I have an F4 and I can tell you an IOS app is of little use compared to an F-Control
Zoom recorders cant play tracks after they are removed and reintroduced to the SD cards. They need to allow that like Tascam does. Innovation is nice, product support is better.
+Hobby Rx interesting point. I'm curious, what is the scenario where you need to add files to the card and play them back?
I am a student that records lectures. As exams/finals approach I would like to reload files and use the H2n as a mobile player for their
ability to play at faster speeds. Like a podcast.
i gotta stop watching your channel. Your making want to spend a lot of $$$$ :(
No, don't spend if you don't need it! This is just FYI in case you find yourself in a situation where you'll be recording in situations where you'll be doing quick turn-arounds or working from a table or cart. If not, you know it is an option in the future in case you need it. :)
thats true. you have sold me on the zoom f4 though. cant wait to get it and play with it.
HelloSoundies , I currently don't own an F-series, but I've been thinking about it. I'm using S-sound devices, but I'm contemplating getting an F-series, Zoom, and an F-controller. I have a quick question: Can the Zoom and the controller be used together with the app, or do I have to choose between using the F-controller or the app? Any guidance would be appreciated as I make my decision.
Yes, you can use the app and the controller at the same time, but note that ZOOM has discontinued the f-control so you’d need to find it used.
Thank you that helps ….2nd cart loading