The 24 Track Rule - RecordingRevolution.com

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  • Опубликовано: 25 ноя 2024

Комментарии • 370

  • @3nine3TVone
    @3nine3TVone 5 лет назад +3

    I’ve been saying this for years! The more you add, the more it takes away. 24 tracks should be enough for any great song. Thank you Graham!

  • @sadul
    @sadul 5 лет назад +8

    I have been recording semi-professionally & professionally for 20 years. Never heard of a 24-track rule... Well once, but that was when we recorded with a 24-track tape machine...

  • @thetoykeet
    @thetoykeet 5 лет назад +13

    This is one of the most intelligent videos on recording I have ever heard! Thank you!

  • @CraigTube
    @CraigTube 5 лет назад +2

    As a teen, I had to work with 4 tracks, so I was forced to plan ahead, commit to submixes, and be creative with my process. As a result of that, when I got to use more tracks, I didn't have the urge to just keep adding and adding. I cut my teeth on 4 tracks and that taught me how to think and plan. Awesome vid!

  • @RKBibleStudy
    @RKBibleStudy 5 лет назад +4

    I’ve been recording with computers for almost 20 years, and obviously tape before that. I have never used more than 24 tracks in any project. That’s a good video young man.

  • @craigkeys4
    @craigkeys4 5 лет назад +50

    Watch this at 1.5x playback speed 👍🏼👍🏼

    • @dafingaz
      @dafingaz 5 лет назад +5

      I usually watch most videos (if they are not music) and listen to podcasts at 2x speed. Same with some trainings (i.e. Lynda, Coursera, MasterClass). I don't like it when they don't have the option to change the speed. LOL....There is a cheat code app though that changes video speed (there's one in Chrome and another one in Safari)...

    • @TransverseAudio
      @TransverseAudio 5 лет назад +2

      I was at 2x, which is where I go for most videos. Probably why people complain about my videos being so fast... I've been brainwashed.

    • @dafingaz
      @dafingaz 5 лет назад +1

      `Transverse Audio Lol. I try 2x unless there is something I miss or a heavy accent where normal or 1.5 is better. I wish some of them could be 3x. Lol

    • @TransverseAudio
      @TransverseAudio 5 лет назад +2

      @@dafingaz IKR! It's hard going back to slower speeds after watching at 2x for a while. Everyone sounds drunk or annoyingly slow lol.

    • @dafingaz
      @dafingaz 5 лет назад +1

      `Transverse Audio #Facts 🙌🏾🤣😂😂😂🤣

  • @queencitycutty9082
    @queencitycutty9082 5 лет назад +46

    How bout limiting your tracks to 8? Because you own the lite edition..😭😭😭

    • @darylquevada
      @darylquevada 5 лет назад

      Ableton Live feels man.

    • @queencitycutty9082
      @queencitycutty9082 5 лет назад

      @@darylquevada Most definitely but I have had a problem with overproducing so this makes me cut things..also makes me want to get the full version and the fire as a controller..😂 Awesome workaround the mpc touch functions as a vst BOOM as many tracks as I like...😎

    • @melodica5407
      @melodica5407 5 лет назад

      Ever heard of cracked software?
      If you don't want to use crack DAW just get reaper.

    • @queencitycutty9082
      @queencitycutty9082 5 лет назад +1

      @@melodica5407 I like for everything to just work..I don't want to go through the headache...these companies A. Shouldn't charge so much B. Stop it with all the ilok.... I have paid stuff I had to beg and plead and in one case well unmentionable... to get it to work.. I'm not ashamed of using newbie stuff as I been at this for 2 decades I would've been ecstatic wit Ableton Lite in 2001... I literally waited 20 years for the industry to get a clue with gear and affordability so I don't mind paying..

    • @queencitycutty9082
      @queencitycutty9082 5 лет назад

      @ Melodica Love that company..I'm at day 638 demomode on Reaper..

  • @garaughty
    @garaughty 5 лет назад +5

    For anyone who only began recording in the digital age... this is some of the best advice you'll ever get! My 1st career in music was composing/producing jingles for tv/radio ads and 24 tracks was a luxury. Focus on the composition and arrangement not on all the cool toys and unlimited tracks we now have at our fingertips. My latest RUclips video for a piece of music titled 'Distant Atmospheres' is nothing more than 3 tracks... 1 piano, 1 reverse piano and 1 reverse vocal track. So far that track has received well over 600 positive comments. If you need more than 24 tracks to get you idea across... rethink your arrangement !

    • @RocknRollkat
      @RocknRollkat 2 года назад

      Absolutely CORRECT.
      I've said for decades that "If you can't do it in 24 tracks, you shouldn't be doing this".
      And I said that when I was pioneering 64 track MIDI.
      I had real trouble using more than 16 tracks, even in that environment.
      I came up with 1 mic, 1 mono tape machine and 1 basement.
      Today's children can't record a snare drum with only one track.

  • @austinmillerae
    @austinmillerae 5 лет назад +3

    As a student going for an audio engineering degree with aspirations to create my own music, this is now a part of how I record and mix. I appreciate the advice greatly.

  • @heartshinemusic
    @heartshinemusic 5 лет назад +46

    24 tracks or 24 parts, that's a different story.
    When you look for example at Warren Huarts vocal production, with doubles, and 6 slighty pitchifted doubles, a whisper track etc. let alone all the backing vocals, you need more than 24 tracks.
    All those vocal tracks plus their layered doubles do count as one "part" though and (for the most part) you can EQ them in together in a bus.
    Also: some like to have vocal verses and choruses on different tracks.
    So this 24 tracks theory certainly has it's flaws. Think about drum tracks and then tracks with added kick and snare samples, or a DI bass plus the bass amp plus maybe a sub bass (synth).
    This way you're not overcrowding the song with all kinds of different, competing parts, but the track count rises quickly.
    Personally, I'd look more for the number of different parts (especially playing at the same time, than the number of tracks. Having verse guitars on different tracks than the chorus guitar can be more convenient when mixing than having it all on the same track when you need a sonically different sounding chorus etc. I think being organised and having a clear, balanced vision is more important that a specific (limiting) track count.

    • @jesusflores2121
      @jesusflores2121 5 лет назад

      He literally said he is not taking about what you're trying to explain.

    • @jesusflores2121
      @jesusflores2121 5 лет назад

      @@oinkooink I was like, "there was no pitchshift invented when the Beatles were around." Then, I got it.

    • @StevenMikel1
      @StevenMikel1 5 лет назад +1

      First,a good solid song should sound good with just the vocal and a piano or acoustic guitar so,2 to 4 tracks.Second,like he said the key to making the most of fewer tracks is planning and arrangement,do some research and find out how they did things before there were daw's. Third,some of the stuff we see Warren Huart doing is added at the mix stage(he shows in a video how he makes the whisper track).

    • @jesusflores2121
      @jesusflores2121 5 лет назад +2

      @@oinkooink When the Beatles recorded they only had 4 tracks for the majority of their careers. They mixed the first four and put it on one track, then used the other three to create "8" tracks. In 1968 one, or two studios implemented a 12 track recording module. The first of their kinds. So, the Beatles used 60 tracks?

    • @victorlopezrossi4924
      @victorlopezrossi4924 5 лет назад

      I just thought the very same thing. I think that Graham @recordingrevolution could answer this. And I think he would agree.

  • @Table-Top
    @Table-Top 5 лет назад +8

    Yazoo in the 80s used very few tracks in their songs, and they were really good.
    "Less is more" is a great reminder.

  • @tparker
    @tparker 5 лет назад +23

    My production philosophy has always been "less is more." That being said, I try not to go beyond 16 tracks.

    • @failuremagnet
      @failuremagnet 5 лет назад +4

      I'm right with you. If I can't get what I want to hear with 16, then it's not gonna sound any better with 116.

    • @jairousparker2311
      @jairousparker2311 5 лет назад +1

      I agree 100%, well said.

    • @matrixate
      @matrixate 5 лет назад +2

      There you go...exactly what I said.

  • @mpmusic9378
    @mpmusic9378 4 года назад +2

    This rule is perfect. 24 tracks are not too hard to mix, while still being able to make an exciting mix.

  • @Charles-gs4os
    @Charles-gs4os 5 лет назад +1

    This makes perfect sense. Being so new to mixing I can see how this can help move me along. Often I feel so overwhelmed by the unlimited options. Ill give this a try!

  • @perrygoround
    @perrygoround 5 лет назад

    I liked the Canvas analogy. Great explanation.
    I am a begginer hobbyist, and I at this point I usually have 5 drumtracks (Kick, Snare, Toms, Hi-Hat & Cymbals), + reverb/room + drum buss; 2 bass tracks (DI + amps/effects) + bass bus; 6 Rythm guitar tracks (only 2 at a time, but different sounding takes for verses, choruses, bridges) + rythm guitars bus; 2 tracks for lead guitars + LG bus; 4 lead vocal tracks (again different takes on verses/choruses and some doubled) + 2 background vocals + Vocal bus; 1 global reverb track; 1 delay track... so that makes for 24 tracks +5/6 buses
    Then, usually I add 1 or 2 tracks for specific sounds a particular song may need for a specific purpose (lets say a synth on an intro, or a string instrument on a bridge, or a speaking speech, or an ambient sound like sea waves or a stadium screaming, or a siren going off, or a bell, or a helicopter, etc... whatever fits the theme of a song).
    A few times I had also added some kind of orchestration (Strings or brass or keys etc.) with virtual instruments, being my top for that about a dozen extra tracks.

  • @patbradley9817
    @patbradley9817 5 лет назад

    I started doing this about a year ago for my work.... It clears the mind! Glad to hear someone else is thinking this way.

  • @gtw541
    @gtw541 5 лет назад

    First home studio = Cakewalk/Dell/Behringer. After many years of pointless upgrades and blaming gear, now following these vids to start over fresh. Thanks again!

  • @yeah1009
    @yeah1009 5 лет назад +7

    Let that one take done with passion and feeling go! leave it, perfection kills good music! LET IT GO!!

  • @Jaisean
    @Jaisean 5 лет назад +3

    Bro, everything I learned from producing, I’ve learned from you! I’m really grateful for the knowledge you drop. You’re a good teacher and a talented artist/ producer/ engineer. I have hella respect for you man.

  • @Rickholly74
    @Rickholly74 5 лет назад

    I am an oldie and my first recorder was a JVC reel to reel with sound on sound. For those who don't know what that was it was the ability to record on one track then flip a switch and whatever was recorded on track one was feed into the input of track two along with the mic 2 input. You laid track two on track one then you are done. That' s about as crude as they come but I still have recordings of my band around 1974 that sound pretty good. I graduated in 1975 to a Tascam 3340 four track. That was a great machine and I spent the next few years learning how to bounce tracks and end up with up to seven tracks of recording by consolidating and bouncing tracks. Again, my tapes from that era sound surprisingly good. In the late 80's it was a Fostex 16E recorder and the Fostex 16 channel board. Like you said, you had 16 tracks and only a 16 channel board. Another major improvement. In the early 2000's I bought a Tascam 2488. 24 tracks was a dream.and up till about two years ago I was still doing everything on a Tascam 2488 and a newer Tascam DP24. Two years ago I started using Reaper and I will say it is a wonderful DAW but I recently realized that I was getting carried away with the amount of tracks I was using. Instead of punching in on a guitar or vocal track to fix something, I was adding another track and leaving those decisions till later. My mixing time doubled if not tripled as I tried to make sense of all these additional tracks. It made me yearn for those old four track days when you had to think about what you were doing long before you hit the record button. In those days I had to think about what what parts had to be recorded first and make sure it was right before you bounced those three tracks to the only open track because from that moment on there was no going back and correcting anything. It is what is. I agree with everything you say in this video and I have been trying to be aware of this now when I record. Less is better. The reality is 24 tracks is all I really need. Some of my favorite albums of all time were done using 24 tracks or less.

  • @RageByNightfall
    @RageByNightfall 5 лет назад +4

    I usually use 8-10 tracks. Now, as for the drums I use ToonTrack’s SD3. So depending on if you want to include the separate drum tracks in SD3’s mixer which alone is like 8-10 tracks I have used maybe 22-24 tracks. But on Logic it would show up as one track. I don’t think you need an INSANE amount of tracks but that also depends on the genre of music. If you have like a ska band, you’ll of course need more tracks than say a 3-piece punk band. So it really depends.

  • @crazycuts6891
    @crazycuts6891 5 лет назад

    It's about time that somebody FINALLY made a video about the amount of tracks that it should take to create music. Because my AKAI MPD 32 controller only will record up to 24 tracks, so now I'm at ease about making music from this point on, nice one Graham.

  • @20Lukas93
    @20Lukas93 5 лет назад +16

    Why is everyone so obsessed with track counts..? It's just how you organize your stuff that matters. I like to have 2-3 piano tracks for instance, so I don't have to automate EQ going from
    a busy section to a calm one. I'll have a thin piano track and a bloomy one and can then slice the regions the way they fit into the mix. Or when having guitar tracks, say a r121, sm57 and a room pair. I will want all those mics in the mix-session to shape the sound right at the source. Then those mics are bussed, and processed the way that fits the mix. Essentially it will be one track in my mind.

    • @freeform144
      @freeform144 5 лет назад

      That's a point. It is possible to increase track count in well thought out ways such that each track contributes to the overall tune.
      I believe that the main problem he is referring to here is when each track is meant to separately contribute to a mix and not as much for, for example, splitting one sound into low and high end tracks to be mixed separately.

    • @crispyrobot77
      @crispyrobot77 5 лет назад +1

      Agreed. I do the same thing. I'd rather break out a track into several tracks rather than to have automation curves for sudden volume and effects changes. I do lots of slicing and dicing so for me it is an easier way move things around. The only time I use automation curves is if a gradual change is required (ie fade in fade out) or for a gradual change in modulation speed or intensity. Graham has some excellent tips and videos however, in my case, using more tracks actually REDUCES complexity and makes things easier to manage and you don't spend time chasing automaton curves around. When you split out a drum track that can easily take up 7-10 tracks. And if you have 3 back up vocals and 4 percussion..etc. IMO no direct relation between tracks and complexity or quality of output.

    • @matrixate
      @matrixate 5 лет назад

      People are not obsessed with tracks. He's just making stuff up that he heard someone say and is now trying to make it something it's not.

  • @jloiben12
    @jloiben12 4 года назад

    This is truly an underrated tip/prospective. Many of the best people in the industry think this way but don’t make it this explicit.
    This is really about the simplicity of workflow. And simplicity when it comes to workflow makes life just better

  • @MrVishnudata
    @MrVishnudata 5 лет назад +14

    There are no rules. All depends on what you are doing.

    • @matrixate
      @matrixate 5 лет назад

      Exactly. I'm sure he doesn't even do himself.

    • @RageByNightfall
      @RageByNightfall 5 лет назад

      Valo Lankinen Absolutely.

  • @ChakFournier
    @ChakFournier 5 лет назад +3

    I worked 1 year on Ableton LITE which allowed only 8 tracks.. I think it taught me a lot.

  • @cThreep
    @cThreep 5 лет назад +6

    An analogy my brain is trying to use right now is to compare the 24 track rule to video game developers. Has anyone tried downloading a modern AAA game lately? The file sizes are MASSIVE. 40 to 100 GB typically. This is due in large part to sloppiness and laziness from the developers. Nintendo is a prime example of the opposite - a huge game like Breath of the Wild is only 13 GB. Granted, it has a more simplistic art style, but give that same game to the folks at Bethesda or EA and you'd get a 40 GB end game file size with no perceivable benefit. If my analogy makes sense to even one soul, I've served my purpose :)

    • @Elopestate
      @Elopestate 5 лет назад

      You have no idea what you're talking about, this is absolute nonsense on every single point

    • @cThreep
      @cThreep 5 лет назад

      ​@@Elopestate Bold claim, my dude. Care to elaborate? It's possible that I didn't elaborate my point well enough but I do know what I'm talking about.

  • @AldyWaani
    @AldyWaani 5 лет назад +3

    my very first recording was a cheap double decks hifi and do overdubs with two cassettes back in 90s.
    Then my band record a demo tape on a Tascam 4-track recorder.
    Then 2nd album was recorded on a 16 track reels. No goddam DAW in 10 years of our band journey.
    In mid 2000 we got signed under universal music, this is when we first time use protools with 64 tracks (digidesign)
    But i use Cakewalk and Sonar during my collage year in 2000 :)

  • @dnashofficial
    @dnashofficial 5 лет назад +1

    this is an awesome rule. there is only so much the ear can hear at once, and unless you're recording Bohemian Rhapsody or I'm Not In Love, there are few reasons to break it.
    as a drummer, i find there's so much you can do with a fat saw bass and a kick. it's all in the melody. so, that's 3(m) or 6(s) tracks when you add vocals, and more than a few artists have been able to express themselves perfectly well with those alone.
    then again, i use a VERY large drum kit at times, with up to 22 mics, and without the ability to submix, i'd be screwed trying to adhere to this, lol.
    thanks for all your videos

  • @bobbykanemusictube
    @bobbykanemusictube 5 лет назад +2

    I get it. I believe it. I've experienced it. I think you for putting this out there. Enough about me. You rock.

  • @Opry99er
    @Opry99er 5 лет назад +10

    I got started with a Tascam 424 MKII 4 track tape recorder. We made good music on that thing.

    • @AldyWaani
      @AldyWaani 5 лет назад +2

      Opry99er same here! 🙌🏻

    • @eternalrhythmflow
      @eternalrhythmflow 5 лет назад

      I still have mine in the original box. Great machine!

    • @Opry99er
      @Opry99er 5 лет назад +1

      Wish I still had my old one. 10-15 years ago you could pick them up for $30 on eBay. Now they're going for 10x that.

    • @royjones1571
      @royjones1571 5 лет назад +2

      That's how you learn to bounce. But the sound crashed. And sometimes that was a good thing.

    • @davidbaines7330
      @davidbaines7330 5 лет назад +2

      Nice. I still have my Fostex 4 track from the same time period. Best way to learn.

  • @memneophilia
    @memneophilia 5 лет назад

    Yep - 100 percent - that is what they taught me in 1985 at sound school. Excellent. You remind me a lot of this person when you speak - Julia Kristina on you tube, a therapist. She speaks with passion like you ... She is super cool. Thanks for this vid!

  • @iqi616
    @iqi616 5 лет назад

    I dug out my Korg D1600 multitracker last year and went DAW-free for recording. Just 16 tracks and I've gone back to drop-ins for correcting flubs - no more comping. Saving a stack of time, improving my playing, and obviating gigabytes of reject recordings.

  • @gooshie3
    @gooshie3 5 лет назад +1

    True innovation and freedom comes from limitation. I rarely go past 16 tracks.

  • @bangtherapy8321
    @bangtherapy8321 5 лет назад +2

    Less is definitely more, I find this applies to many things in life but especially music. Great vid

  • @dafingaz
    @dafingaz 5 лет назад +10

    Most of my instrumentals are 8 tracks or less (with all drums subbed to 1 stereo track). Great advice!

    • @HoundTakeshi
      @HoundTakeshi 5 лет назад +2

      Yup, same here. Drum Rack in Ableton as one track + the rest is usually less than 10 tracks(around 16 if i'm going crazy).

    • @dafingaz
      @dafingaz 5 лет назад +2

      @@HoundTakeshi Yep. Just makes life so much easier. LOLOL...

    • @alienrefugee51
      @alienrefugee51 5 лет назад +2

      Aux tracks and busses don't apply to the 24 track rule. You still need to mix the drum kit and process the different kit elements, especially the kick and snare.

    • @dafingaz
      @dafingaz 5 лет назад

      @@alienrefugee51 So true. I also rarely see the need for more than 8 tracks for a drum kit. But I've seen some hit the 16 and 24 mark. LOL....

    • @TransverseAudio
      @TransverseAudio 5 лет назад

      @@dafingaz What would make me most surprised about 24 tracks for drums is the sheer amount of mics they must have to capture that.

  • @Mike256
    @Mike256 5 лет назад +2

    Graham, thanks for really keeping things simple and telling it as it is. Less is 'More' at it's very best. Keep up the great content sir!

  • @chemmii
    @chemmii 2 года назад

    I think Sade's recordings are the best over all examples of perfect impact with minimal tracks and effects personally.!!

  • @Zolier
    @Zolier 5 лет назад +29

    I usually use 80-100 tracks just for the drums

  • @MusicalPlayground717
    @MusicalPlayground717 5 лет назад +1

    Haha, I love that you referenced “How Star Wars Was Saved in the Edit.” What a great video - I’m glad you’re a fan. ☺️

  • @cheskyifrah3265
    @cheskyifrah3265 5 лет назад

    FUNNY but 100% TRUE story: I just received stems from a client to mix. I open the session and start mixing, and the amount of layers and extra crap that was there was extraordinary! After mixing for about an hour and realizing I wasn't getting too far, all I was thinking was "if only this guy would've strategically produced his song this would be wayyy easier!" I closed the session out of lack of accomplishment and opened google chrome (just to air out a little before I open a different session to work on) and went to youtube.com and there it was, the very first suggestion on my home youtube page: "The 24 Track Rule - RecordingRevolution.com". I watched it and agreed with EVERY LAST WORD! I related most to "reason #1" but the others were just as accurate. There is no way that this timing is a coincidence, obviously God wanted me to feel better about the fact that I couldn't mix a song for a client properly. He was showing me that you're not supposed to have to deal with these songs at all!!! Graham, well done (again) in fact I'm happy I actually found someone I trust who said this because, all the time when I produce I like to keep the track count way low (usually under 24 tracks). And sometimes I thought "you know, all your friends bang out like 100-150 track songs, maybe your doing something wrong?" but noooo I found a resource like me! Thanks Graham! (can't wait to share this with some of my friends.) Keep these coming, I love 'em!!

  • @danyavilaoficial
    @danyavilaoficial 5 лет назад

    All my most impressive productions are those with fewer tracks. Yesterday I was listening to my whole catalog of well produced demos and to my surprise and relates to this video, all those tracks with vocals, piano and acoustic guitars were pleasantly loud,clear balanced.

  • @ericpassmore3068
    @ericpassmore3068 5 лет назад +13

    I do agree with this....in theory anyways...but I have to say that the vast majority of successful mainstream music made today has FAR MORE than 24 tracks....often over 100.....in fact I’d guess that 24 tracks is pretty rare in most commercial genres
    ....having said this the message here of less is more is definitely an important one

    • @sbanville4761
      @sbanville4761 5 лет назад +1

      I would argue that some of the best recorded material was on 24 tracks or less.

    • @ericpassmore3068
      @ericpassmore3068 5 лет назад +1

      @@sbanville4761 yep....some has....and a lot hasn't. In the last 20 years most hasn't....either way, track count is irrelevant....all that matters is wether the production works

    • @sbanville4761
      @sbanville4761 5 лет назад +2

      @@ericpassmore3068 That's Graham's point. Too many tracks means the arrangement and production is problematic.

    • @ericpassmore3068
      @ericpassmore3068 5 лет назад +3

      @@sbanville4761 yes but my point is that good arranging is good arranging....regardless of track count....it is ENTIRELY possible to have a huge track count that works seamlessly. There is nothing inherently better about low track counts and limiting yourself to 24 tracks is very arbitrary and unnecessary (whey wouldn't 27 tracks work). Most big hits today have huge track counts.....most big hits in the 60s didn't. At the end of the day all that matters is that every track in a session helps the song.....if there are 150 tracks (like a lot of pop hits have) then so be it :-)

    • @ericpassmore3068
      @ericpassmore3068 5 лет назад

      @@sbanville4761 but as I said in my original post...I do agree that less is more.....it just so happens that "less" could easily mean 80 tracks - and that's perfectly fine if it works

  • @wongjason2450
    @wongjason2450 5 лет назад +13

    I understand what you said, but that's definitely not a case for JACOB COLLIER

    • @3OrMoreBones
      @3OrMoreBones 5 лет назад +3

      Understand, you're talking a bout a deity that knows no bounds...

    • @jazzjames
      @jazzjames 5 лет назад +1

      Which is why I’m not a huge fan. Talented guy but way too much almost always. Just because you CAN do something...it might not be the best sound. I find almost all of Colliers stuff to be ridiculously dense.

    • @MitsaelT
      @MitsaelT 3 года назад

      @@jazzjames his Grammy collection is really dense

    • @jazzjames
      @jazzjames 3 года назад

      @@MitsaelT Justin Bieber’s Grammy collection is dense too. I think he sucks.

  • @Frank.Zimmermann
    @Frank.Zimmermann 5 лет назад

    We're on the same page. I use my 24-Tracks or 16-Tracks Recording Template. About 90% of the song is done in the pre-production phase incl. arrangement and sound shaping on the way in-to me it's kind of like the "pre-mix" before I even start recording. This way I'm much more relaxed on recording day, and I'm open for fresh and final ideas. In the 80s/90s I used a portable 4-Track recording device from Tascam (Tascam Porta Studio One) to record demo tapes. Those were the days. 😄 Thanks Graham!!

  • @goodcommentman1512
    @goodcommentman1512 5 лет назад

    Excellent advice. I take it a step further and use the 1/2 track rule. I record my songs on one track and pan it either to the right or left. I alternate between left and right song by song to increase the life of my speakers.

  • @tsasproject
    @tsasproject 5 лет назад

    I support this rule. I work with electronic dance music and sometimes I end up with many tracks, despite having no more than 2-3 sounds playing at same time (like: while one goes off, other goes on). What I do is layering of sounds and render similar stuff together (kicks into one channel, leads into another, etc) to keep track of everything during the mixing process. It's much easier work on EQing, like you stated and panning as well.

  • @sebisman
    @sebisman 5 лет назад +2

    -You should only use 24 tracks or your arrangements is weird
    -Jacob Collier: Grab my Grammy's...

  • @NURREDIN
    @NURREDIN 5 лет назад

    I totally understand where you're coming from. I was taught how to record by my mentor,Bud Hobgood (James Brown's producer) when I was an intern at the now defunct King records in Cincinnati. The most he ever used was SIXTEEN TRACKS on two inch tape.. I still record ANALOG. I don't use any DAW software. I recently read an article in AMI on Susan Rogers,Prince's engineer. She said that Prince felt if you couldn't record a song with 24 tracks you didn't know what you were doing.Having said that,the perfect number of tracks for me is 32,because I record EVERYTHING (including bass and guitar) in STEREO. I don't EQ anything (just like Bud taught me) and i "print" all my effects when I'm tracking (just like Bud taught me),because when I go to mix,the ONLY thing I'm concerned with is VOLUME and PLACEMENT in the stereo field. I make sure an instrument (or a voice) sounds the way I want it to BEFORE I hit the record button. My engineering hero Al Schmitt doesn't use EQ when tracking either. My favorite recorder is an IZ Radar. Everything remains analog in my studio except for using the hard drive on the IZ. I wish IZ would make a 32 track version. I would be in heaven.

  • @PhilKelley
    @PhilKelley 5 лет назад

    Thank you for the excellent advice on how to execute the arranging phase of the creative project. I just built my sound studio (using your gear guide), got Pro Tools installed, and am now ready to begin recording a bunch of songs I have written over the years. I read your Radio Ready guide and was pretty much stumped at the Arrangement step. This rule and the steps you outlined about arranging will help me a lot. Thanks, too, for the clarification that this is really a rule-of-thumb, not a hard-and-fast law; a tool for making me think more clearly about the process.

  • @davidbreedveld-retrospecti2431
    @davidbreedveld-retrospecti2431 5 лет назад

    My first Multitrack recordings in the 80s (age 20ish lol) were done on my home hifi unit. It had an Amp, Record player, equalizer, radio unit, and 2 different model Akai tape decks with microphone jacks which were only supposed to support 1 time recording of a sound source through those jacks on Audio Tape. I had 2 tape decks so I could duplicate audio tapes and remix songs on an audio tape for my friends basically. Somehow I learned that if I didn't plug the audio source into one of the tape decks recording jacks all the way, it would leave the previous recording and allow me to overdub a new sound source. This produced a bad quality second recording with hiss but I was mutitracking and excited. I could get away with this about 4 times before the hiss destroyed the recording. At first I only had guitar and vocals so harmony tracks took most of the space. Then I borrowed a drum machine so things stepped up lol. There's a lot to this story so I'll end here, but having worked with limitations, I agree that if you arrange things properly, the end result is always much better. Thanks Graham for reminding me of this. You're awesome.

  • @jppagetoo
    @jppagetoo 5 лет назад +2

    For conventional music, as a general rule I agree with you. But... I like to create montages from lots of sound samples along with sampler, synth, bass, and drum tracks. Most of the sound snippets are only a few seconds long. Many of them get their own track since I am very likely apply different effects and automation on any given snippet. They can't share a track or bus without making an automation mess. So more source tracks and mix down busses is a cleaner way to handle it. With this type of music going over 24 tracks is very easy. It's about using the tracks to make creative music, not delay creative decisions.

  • @JulesCalella
    @JulesCalella Год назад

    This sounds like a great rule to follow. I like to mix rock music with symphonic elements, which results in a lot of tracks with a lot of different "colors". I'm still learning, but I normally put similar instruments together in a group and treat it as a single track, as if they were recorded at in the same performance. Individual instruments definitely get lost in the mix, which is expected, and I've learned to make it an intentional part of the arrangement and not give too many unique melodies to supporting instruments. Working with so many tracks though, it does get difficult to know when and how to EQ and compress each track to make it fit in the mix.

  • @chrismallettmusic
    @chrismallettmusic 5 лет назад +2

    When I approach producing a song, I think about how it would be played live. So with a standard band there would be a rhythm guitarist, lead guitarist, keyboardist, bass player, and drummer. Then I think there's the lead vocalist and a background vocalist or two. From there I add other instruments or elements as I see fit.

    • @samuel14674
      @samuel14674 4 года назад

      I do exactly the same! It really helps me cut back on tracks.

  • @volgalgzkaradagoglu
    @volgalgzkaradagoglu 4 года назад

    I used to mix more than 48 tracks. After I started to work at a bar with a nice stage, 24 channel analogue mixer, lexicon mx200, 4 compressors and 2 eq's for master, I learned to minimize. Still couldn't reduced to 24 inl. busses but still improved my sound

  • @alienrefugee51
    @alienrefugee51 5 лет назад +4

    A full drum kit is going to take up at least 10+ tracks already. Add to that, bass, guitars, synths and vocals, there is no way that's happening. Vocals have doubles and background vocals, that's gonna be way over 24 tracks. Sure, if you just use a stereo track for drums and you're just making demos, then it's doable, but for real-world professional recordings, you're going to need 32+ tracks. If you're just starting out, then yes this 24 track rule applies and will help beginners to get their feet wet.

    • @fatbeezy912
      @fatbeezy912 5 лет назад +1

      Not Necessarily true. They can use minimal tracks and make it sound big as if it were 32 + tracks. And it's more of 24 parts than tracks . Most use a doubler on vocals or the reel adt like the beetles used to emulate doubled vocals. If you're over 24 tracks but the parts all make sense to the song then thats great. More is not always better tho. Ive actually had songs where I removed tracks during mixing and the song started sounding better and came together

  • @GaelDT
    @GaelDT 5 лет назад

    The canvas-analogy really pushed your point! Thanks

  • @EduCamargoOficial
    @EduCamargoOficial 5 лет назад

    I always pass the 24 limit, but never mean to reach the hundreds mark. But I do agree that with at least 24 you can have a consistent arrangement.
    Keep up the amazing content, Graham.

  • @daviddennison6578
    @daviddennison6578 2 года назад

    Thoroughly enjoyed your talk on 24 track recording. One of my favourite artists is Roy Wood. Dave

  • @tboozer1972
    @tboozer1972 5 лет назад +1

    I started in the 80's with 4-track cassette recorder with only volume and panning. Had to keep bouncing things to a left and right track to make room for anything else.

    • @failuremagnet
      @failuremagnet 5 лет назад

      Been there, done that (Teac 144 cassette Portastudio - the original one) and for the most part still record the same way on the computer. I rarely go past 16 tracks.

  • @anonimni3456
    @anonimni3456 5 лет назад

    Oh Graham, you should have studied psychology, seriously. If there wasn't you I wouldn't be such a music producer as I am now, but I noticed that the way you explain teaches me not only in the music world but also in some other aspects of life. It's kinda weird, I know but I'm thankful to you for that

  • @PMoneynodash
    @PMoneynodash 5 лет назад

    I just starting to work with 24+ tracks. It was mostly a result of exactly what you said. Lazy push off till later thinking. Some of them were retakes where its hard to discard the old sounds. I think it comes down to not wanting to let go of what once sounded good to you. We keep those sounds and they prevent new ones from entering the mix in their refined forms. Sometimes we choose to just work on sounds that serve very little purpose to the mix. I believe true lovers of melodies have this problem. I once recorded 10 different melodies to a beat and kept 2 of them. I wondered about the other 8 all the time. I hope they are doing well in the land of deleted genius. But then I find myself playing them in different forms later. Its ok to let some sounds go. When the time is right, they come back to you ... usually more refined.

  • @TransverseAudio
    @TransverseAudio 5 лет назад +1

    Great advice, Graham! Although this doesn't apply to absolutely everything (like pretty much all mixing advice). One example; orchestral music.

  • @beatbotzofficial
    @beatbotzofficial 5 лет назад +1

    Yes, simplify! Less is more. Getting lost in all of it trying to add too much sometimes! 👍

  • @Emondotcalm
    @Emondotcalm 5 лет назад

    The early Elivis stuff.... ONE MIC in a room! Talk about committing! No overdubbing, no auto tune, no bank of 600 effects. The musicians had to really have it down solid. They did have EQ and compression but other than that no fixing it in the mix later. It was all about mic placement... Getting the sound right BEFORE it even hits the tape. We're so freaking spoiled these days! I keep reminding myself... Seargent Pepper was done on a FOUR TRACK!! Granted they did do a fair amount of bouncing tracks down, essentially giving them more than four tracks but like Graham says they had to have a damned solid game plan going into it. I think this technical engineering feat of the century was only made possible by the fact that the Beatles were a super tight performing band. Recording several parts at once.

  • @billgreene6853
    @billgreene6853 5 лет назад

    Graham....totally agree w/ you on this. As some comments below indicate...there will always be mix-snobs...and that's not to say there won't be scenarios where more tracks are simply a must; but for most....its a phase. Your point though was particularly attractive to me in passing as I am currently putting together an EP of my own...hopefully destine for the tunecore thing (just to say I did it...lol) and I was noodling around w/ some ideas and stopped and thought...who am I on this project? .....and it came to mind that I wanted it to be what I would have liked to sound like in 85' So now I have 5-6 songs that are comprised of 2-3 guitars including solo, stereo drums (EZ drummer) Bass and 3-4 vocals. While technology is making these songs sound awesome...I can't help but think that it's capturing a "Core" band sound that has contributed to the overall clarity of thought. Where did it start? With EXACTLY what you described here w/ the 24 Track Rule. Sat down and mentally itemized my 1) pallet 2) stylistic tendencies and 3) Goals. It's kind of like people who don't sit down and figure a budget, and then wonder why they have no money. Spend a few minutes "thinking" about what you want to do...and only do what it takes to accomplish this (with maybe a few duplicate tracks in the kitty) and move on...the adherence to a framework, I think, puts completion in less jeopardy. Listen man....I am kind of a nobody, but want to say that I have been a long time subscriber and have learned a great deal from you and while I couldn't repay this...I'm sure God will bless ya for it dude :)

  • @iamkiaudilapierre5722
    @iamkiaudilapierre5722 4 года назад

    Thank you I will start doing this.... I only used 16 tracks but now I know it’s 24

  • @freeform144
    @freeform144 5 лет назад +1

    Agreed. It seems some commenters are a bit stuck on the arbitrariness of 24. I believe the point here is: only add tracks to your mix with great care and caution.
    Often times there are ways to accomplish something without having to add more tracks to do so. Plus, without careful attention given to how each new track is blended into the overall mix, chances are you'll end up with a mucky mess. Then if you send that mess to a sound engineer for mastering, he or she will have a heck of a time trying to clean it up.
    Words of wisdom: keep it simple stupid.
    Others are speaking of how popular music often uses over 100 tracks. If or whenever this is true, you'd better believe they are doing all of that with precision and not just wantonly piling up sounds for "phatter" mixes.
    I'd say it is especially unwise for a beginning musician to approach mixing with the above in mind. Instead, one ought to learn how to effectively use fewer tracks, then go from there.
    At the point you are carefully using more tracks in your mixes, you should also be able to master your own tunes. Either way, we shouldn't be bothering mixing engineers with our muddy mixes!

  • @Thombrawley1
    @Thombrawley1 5 лет назад

    Right Arm Graham. I just saw the Motown doc,and "i heard it thru the grapevine" was first a big hit by Gladys Knight and the Pips, Then there was the Marvin version. Wow!. couldn't be more different. same song.

  • @BTUNEB3
    @BTUNEB3 5 лет назад

    I totally agree, 100 hundred tracks is never needed. you should always plan out your method of how you would create your tracks.
    The most i have ever used was 8 tracks at best. It makes it easier to focus on the sound for both your mix and mixdown.
    Also, time is a factor as well, and you won't eat up a lot of space on both your computer and your external hard drives. Thanks
    for the video on this subject.

  • @nolan5881
    @nolan5881 5 лет назад +1

    I honestly prefer hearing a performance on a record. Tracks are a big deal, but I think a lot of that comes from the fact that you can add tracks without having to rehearse them at all and play them live with other musicians. When you’re adding tracks you’re not really performing in the same way and it feels different to me than playing live with a band and maybe I’m just crazy idk lol
    Some bands don’t even feel like bands anymore. I always listen to older records and think “wow! That’s really John Lennon singing into a microphone that I’m hearing right now. A human had to sing into a mic to make the sound I’m hearing right now.” And I imagine him singing into a microphone while I’m listening to the song. I visualize the whole band playing their instruments. With newer bands I don’t always even feel like there’s a human singing to me. It almost feels like it’s an advertisement or a highly polished 100% perfect representation of what the song is supposed to sound like. I don’t imagine a drummer behind the kit or visualized the headphones on the bass player. I don’t get the vibe that there’s really a band there at all. I wonder if having an unrealistic amount of tracks contributes to losing that feeling as well?
    I never realized or cared about this element until I started listening to 60s-80s rock through headphones very closely and heard these details slowly go away. I’m not saying to intentionally ruin an album or settle for less than your best. By all means, punch in every once in awhile and fix a part but maybe practice the songs a lot before recording and try to record it live and have a less than 100% perfect performance if it means the audience can be reminded that they’re listening to humans every so often and not some flawless representation of what the song would sound like if they were listening to robots play it.
    Great video!!

  • @hansaugustsson7288
    @hansaugustsson7288 5 лет назад

    Applying self-imposed constraints helps you set a finite goal / get started / make choices / finish. Applying self-imposed constraints is what makes it special / different / unique / art. This applies to anything and everything.

  • @karlkirven8174
    @karlkirven8174 5 лет назад

    I never use more that 24 tracks analog rules !!!!! Excellent video

  • @kingech_B15
    @kingech_B15 5 лет назад +4

    My template is modeled after a 32ch SSL 4K with a townhouse bus compressor.

  • @brandimakesmusic
    @brandimakesmusic 5 лет назад

    I use about twelve recording tracks and about 4 or 5 MIDI tracks when recording. When I'm mixing though I bus my instruments and vocals to separate master busses, and then I use sub bus tracks for each instrument and vocal (guitar bus, drum bus, etc.)

  • @MildredStain
    @MildredStain 5 лет назад

    Less is more. Keep it simple. Limitations and a plan for a well-written song equal less clutter to deal with in the end; not to mention sonic/musical clarity. I love the visual art analogy.

  • @Nathankaye
    @Nathankaye 5 лет назад

    I love this concept, Graham.
    I was talking about placing intentional limitations on your art in order to force your mind to find creative decisions and possibly even revolutionise a technique on my fm radio show in Australia a few weeks ago.
    I cited the Beatles St Peppers album as an example (full symphonies and band done on 4 tracks), as well as Tony Visconti’s 3 gated mics for reverb on David Bowie’s vocals in Heroes simply because they only had 1 channel left on a 24 track.
    Anyway, awesome way to approach recording. 24 rule. I’ll be doing that with my next artist.
    Thanks mate.

  • @jamescuttsmusicjcm5013
    @jamescuttsmusicjcm5013 11 месяцев назад

    When it really gets down to it, I usually never have to surpass 8 bus tracks. I like it that way, like my old reel to reel. Haha. Plus I feel like less to mix, is quicker to mix, is easier to mix, is better. Lol. Just my workflow. I like to make decisions and stick to them as the piece develops.

  • @dennisgodshalk
    @dennisgodshalk 5 лет назад

    Great advice.... I rarely crack 15 to 20 tracks and most of those aren't playing back at the same time and yes mixing is easier but it also makes me record a better performance as I can't hide any mistakes in the mix....

  • @_tyrelljr
    @_tyrelljr 5 лет назад

    Alright, that analogy with painting hits hard. Nice video

  • @DerekPower
    @DerekPower 5 лет назад

    I do agree as 1) I can only think of very few cases where you end up with a track count that high (keep in mind that VSTi-s, groups, VCAs and FXs can count as a track) and 2) if some of the great albums were made with only 16-tracks, 8-tracks and even 4-tracks (I think Selected Ambient Works Vol. 2 was such an album), why need more than it is absolutely necessary?
    As someone who has a propensity to layer sounds, I understand that the trap you can fall into is 1) being overwhelmed by too many ideas and 2) diminishing returns (can the ear really discern all 48-96 layers of instruments you recorded?). But while I do enjoy layering, I understand it should be tastefully done: choose sounds that compliment each other and are able to "fill in the gaps" so to speak. In my experience in creating a "single sound" layer, the most I have ever done is eight tracks of various pad sounds to create a large pad for atmospheric purposes. But these were all well-chosen sounds where I think they exhibit the best qualities and they work together. Most other cases, I've done two, maybe three, pad layers and this is also due to the arrangement (i.e. second chorus gets a bit louder than the first chorus).
    Final thought: I think what you implicitly state - and I'm very sure you did this explicitly at times ;) - is the importance of organization. I think if you are organized in how you write and then how you arrange, it makes the recording and everything else because you know where everything is and where it is supposed to be. I would imagine if you were to take out those 50+ track sessions and "organize" them, you can probably find where the "fat" or "bloat" is and make for a better mix by trimming it down, even by half at the least =]

  • @MiximusMaximus
    @MiximusMaximus 5 лет назад

    I started my recording career tracking to thin strips of rusty metal. Nature abhors a vacuum, if there are empty tracks, people tend to fill them with something, no matter if it's needed or not.

  • @RudalPL
    @RudalPL 5 лет назад +1

    A couple of years ago me and the band I was playing with struck a deal with one of vocalist's mates.
    He will get us in a college studio, record and mix and in return we will let him use the songs (2) as he see fit. We were ok but I asked if I can have the recording session so I can learn and practice as well. He said ok.
    After all was done he's sent me a dropbox link with the entire session.
    I counted 38 tracks of only instruments and additional 12 with vocals and backing vocals.
    I'm still trying to get through the whole thing as I only have Cubase Elements ...

  • @albertohilsaca9757
    @albertohilsaca9757 5 лет назад +1

    One of the best advices i have ever heard. Thank you graham

  • @DavidAndrewsPEC
    @DavidAndrewsPEC 5 лет назад +2

    Tell you what ... I was working with four-track stuff for about 30 years. 24-track would be like sleeping naked in a field!
    That 24-track rule is basically Glyn Johns with headroom. This is not a bad thing.
    Yes to the rule. Yes to the reasoning. Yes to the discipline in making a recording.
    When we are engineering, we are practising a discipline. Remove the discipline aspect, and we're doing nothing.

  • @starman5754
    @starman5754 4 года назад

    Back in my PARIS DAW recording days (15-22 yrs ago), I had a 2 EDS card system, 16 tracks per, so 32 total live tracks to work with. This was in the Pentium III and IV days so doing 32 tracks in native PC just wasn't going to happen. I was usually able to get drums and percussion odds and ends on one EDS card, which left the second EDS card for everything else, instrumentation and vocals of all sorts. If I remember correctly, I had 3 different projects that required "virtualizing" (essentially a stereo stem in today's terminology) a third bank of 16 tracks....lots of layers of choir like voices in at least one of those. All other projects fit easily in the 32 available....many within 16.
    These days, I don't count tracks. Lots of stereo key and virtual instrument tracks, and by the time I've doubled and de-tuned, autotuned, comp'ed/chopped, and bused out, they are numerous...and I don't care. They are all there for a reason. I have plenty of CPU power to take care of whatever is asked of it. This wasn't always the case.
    In any case, this 24 track "rule" is a little simplistic but is a reasonably good general rule of thumb that new mixers can use as a guide. It is also something that takes care of itself once you know what you're doing....the majority of modern music just can't use much more than that. However, there will be some times when you'll use more, maybe many more than 24 to get what you're looking for....that's OK... Go for it!

  • @quigleyjamesmusic
    @quigleyjamesmusic 5 лет назад

    Thanks Graham...this message was God sent. A good swift kick in the butt. I needed this!

  • @SamPendleton
    @SamPendleton 5 лет назад +13

    Aw, man; you took Jay Sain69 way back. That was his first track machine.

    • @TransverseAudio
      @TransverseAudio 5 лет назад

      I finally get it after my journey into the depths.

    • @leopoldbluesky
      @leopoldbluesky 5 лет назад

      Finally I get it! I think he had a stutter.

    • @kingqp
      @kingqp 5 лет назад

      Lmfaoooo

  • @daniellara1215
    @daniellara1215 5 лет назад

    Blew my mind never thought of this.

  • @Pete_Sam
    @Pete_Sam 4 года назад

    Remember going from a 4 track cassette tascam to 16 track tape in late 80s. Trust me, Learning to bounce on a 4 track makes you appreciate all the tracks you have today.

  • @AMB666
    @AMB666 5 лет назад +4

    Agree if you are talking about 24 tracks playing from start to finish.
    But for me, I may add a harmony here or a second riff there!

  • @DadiuStudio
    @DadiuStudio 5 лет назад

    I limit myself by using the same PC for the last 10 years, and using Cubase Elements which for 100€ is pretty limited😁 & I also use very few plugins..... Graham is right tough! I started in the '90 on 2 Akay reel to reel stereo tapes and 2 cassette decks recording everything Live to Stereo trough a no name russian 16 channel console with little delay effect added on the spot. Then we added a double for some vocals or a guitar solo which added also more tape noise😄. Later I started to use 2 Sony Mini Disk Units which was a improvement at the time. It was in the 2000's that I managed to buy the first Pentium 2 computer and started using Cakewalk 🤘.... Heck....I always had limitations 😂

  • @JamesonTank
    @JamesonTank 5 лет назад

    Great video. really got me thinking - my last two songs were 35+ and I love them but will be trying the 24 track method on my next

  • @romanokoenmusic
    @romanokoenmusic 5 лет назад

    Haha! I love it! My first multitrack recorder was a Yamaha AW16G. I loved it!

  • @PapaGinseng_
    @PapaGinseng_ 5 лет назад +1

    I just realized i spend too little time on the arrangment lol. I am way to fast to go to tracking it.
    Hmm Good insight!

  • @TTMAcademy
    @TTMAcademy 5 лет назад

    very true...too many tracks can also overload the ram and it may make some programs crash...

  • @jamesgreene7737
    @jamesgreene7737 5 лет назад

    Hey Graham, I started out on the same Cakewalk software. It was an amazing thing at the time. Progress has brought us a looooong way. : )

  • @danielwhite9879
    @danielwhite9879 5 лет назад

    I have to agree 💯. In my own works I try to limit myself to 16 or less tracks

  • @adriank1410
    @adriank1410 5 лет назад

    It was so obvious in the beginning to add multiple layers to make a sound better. Layering is still a good technique in some cases, for example with synths, but after some time you realize that you can get a really powerful sound without too many layers cluttering your mix (for example some saturation and transient master would be much better on drums than adding multiple layers [and creating some phase issues in the meantime]) but it comes with time, and I still catch myself on doing some stupid layering but less really is more.

  • @JackDevaney
    @JackDevaney 5 лет назад +1

    I usually keep it down to 15 tracks because I try to limit myself in my head to the question "how could I play this with a band of 4 to 8 people?"